Sinclair Ferguson: Strange Fire
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 เม.ย. 2015
- Worship in the evangelical church has drastically changed in the past few decades causing no small controversy known as the so-called contemporary verses traditional worship debate. What is the most important thing about worship? Should we design our worship service to be seeker-sensitive? Dr. Sinclair Ferguson examines this thought in this message, as he explains some of the historical and cultural influences that have shaped much of the contemporary worship movement today, and how it is really nothing new.
This message is from our 2003 National Conference, The Power and the Glory: • The Power and the Glor...
Purchase this conference on DVD: www.ligonier.org/store/the-pow...
I'm so blessed My childhood spent in a small church that worshiped all day on sunday with lunch together and having fun all day worshiping together. Meeting up on wednesday night because we couldn't wait until sunday. I miss that world and moments in time. Now I am 48 and living in this world. I can't wait for JESUS judgement, I deserve whatever he thinks lol. JESUS ROCKS!!
For more people like Dr Ferguson to be in our churches. Amen
Thank you Dr. Ferguson! No more modern-day prophets. The prophecies we Christians should believe in come from the Bible. Brothers and Sisters, let's go back to the Bible -- Sola Scriptura!
@3Muc
JJY; Absolutely. Ephesians 2, 20
Amen
Fabulous teaching..❤
Thank you!
I absolutely love this channel. I learn so much.
Thank you eternally for all of your work on the Holy Spirit. From the Marrow Controversy, the Whole Christ to blueprints for sanctification and some pastors and teachers - thank you eternally,
Yours in Christ.
AWESOME!!!!!!! May the LORD feed us more.
You are looking good Sinclair. You haven't changed much since you gave lectures to us in the BTI. Scotland needs our prayer, serious prayer. Some strange fire now being offered with the blessing of the general assembly this year. I refer of course to the updating of the scope of the solemnisation of marriage in our national churches . The evangelical churches in the national church stood against it but they seem to be a minority now. Don't know if Schleiermacher's legacy or post modernism has anything to do with this. Enjoyed your talk. We had the Lord's supper every week in the last church where I was pastor. A working class area with serious dysfunctional living as normal. Praise God many found Christ. Most of them would have difficulty following your talk or understand the language you use. It makes me think that church's assume an audience of at least middle class people with higher intellect. I have often been touched in church worship with feeble but honest and genuine participation from folks who have much to thank God for and know it because of what has happened to them.
This is simply amazing. Thank you Ligonier for publishing these.
Ligonier Ministries didn’t release this; it was part of the Strange Fire Conference at John MacArthur’s Grace Church.
Oops! Ligonier DID release this. My mistake. But I know that it was recorded at Grace Church during the Strange Fire Conference.
Agree- this is so amazing!- love Sinclair!
Great message
Preach, Holy Spirit!
It’s a crying shame that I get to listening to this message and always get sidetracked with something else. One of these days I’m going to sit down and listen to it in its entirety. I need to hear what this man of God has to say about the heresy of the Charismatic Movement.
33:28--Have this section on repeat in ALL of us, especially to church leaders
Easily one of his best sermons! My only regret is that they put this video before Douglas even though his sermon was first.
Thank you for sharing this, the comment made on modern mega churches and medieval cathedrals is eye opening.
I agree! It had never occurred to me, but the correlation makes perfect sense!
@@fairweatherlea 🙏it does!
Great sermon.
Amazing presentation!
As I studied Theatre in secondary school and College and the history of Theatre...I saw a parallel, also , in Christendom ...in the Roman Church and the later Protestant movements which had choirs ...which was similar to the role of the chorus on the Greek drama ...
After being acquainted with New Testament order as described by Paul in his Epistles ....I found a greater contrast of what the True Christian Church is with the Lord with the observances of the Lord's Supper at every meeting as explained by the Apostle
I am thankful to begin discovery of messages related to the evolution of prereformation activity. As I have recently begun to wonder about the advancement and perpetuation of athiest evolution which appears to have kept pace and taken hold at the same time in history.
I love this guy
Amazing.
Amen!
One of the greatest seekers in the Bible that we should be familiar with was Abraham, who searched for a city, whose builder and maker is God. Nothing at all wrong with seeking. Would Abraham like today's worship, but more importantly perhaps we should ask what Jesus thinks about it. Does he truly feel comfortable there? One of the things God lost in the fall of mankind was his worshipers. Jesus said that the Father is seeking those who will worship him in spirit and in truth. So if God is seeking such, is our church friendly to him, and if so, how much so? Perhaps this should be the main question. Is church worship friendly to the biggest and greatest seeker? Is it God friendly? Is God pleased with the worship? Does he look forward to our meetings? Does he look forward to worship time?
About 5% of people in Scotland go to church now.
I try to listen to a sermon every day -- and exposition and declaration of GOd's Word. Today I listened to this instead.
Very fine words and high ideals but in a small local church, often with various musical skills and wide ranging and partly ignorant theology amongst the congregation it is an ideal that is in practice unattainable.. It is much more the work of meeting together, putting up with other people's ways, and struggling week by week to have an influence.
+David Richard SUCH TRUTH FROM SUCH A SMALL MIND - JESUS STARTED WITH TWELVE MEN - IT IS CERTAIN HE WAS MENTALLY CHALLENGED.
LOOK, DAVID, GRAND IDEAS REMAIN JUST THAT, UNLESS THEY REACH THE GRASS ROOT COMMUNITIES AS IDEALS, AND THAT WITH INDIVIDUALS, NOTHING EVER HAPPENS UNTILL IT HAPPENS WITH THE INDIVIDUAL AND SMALL GROUPS.
+jehovahuponyou NO NEED TO SHOUT!! Or insult.
+David Richard IF YOU CAN HEAR MY POST YOU ARE A DANGER TO YOURSELF AND SOCIETY - TIME TO SEEK HELP.
I PROMISE YOU THAT WAS NO INSULT - AT LEAST NOT A REAL ONE - IF YOU WERE OFFENDED MY APOLOGISES.
NOW, HOW ABOUT YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IDEAS IN MY POST.
It is rude to use all caps when you type. You didn't know this?
ignorant theology in your congregation. is always because of false doctrine in your church
Dos caminos o un corazón como el de David que busca honrar a Dios únicamente o bien otro cómo el de Saúl que por buscar su propia gloria se postraba ante los hombres, fingiendo amor y falso arrepentimiento.
I thought Doug Wilson taught strange fire?
We can use any music form and any music form can be abused. The form should suit the congregation and musicians. That said some of the more modern songs coming out are maybe more performance orientated simply because of their form/difficulty. But at the end it's heart attitude, it's not what I get out of it but is it pleasing to God.
your wrong ,the music should not suit the congregation ,the people are at church to hear the word of God, that's what is important, now carnal has taken over the church ,and most pastors are worship leaders instead of preachers, how sad
@@rickbedard5758 No! We come to worship God. It is about Him and encountering Him. We do need good teaching to provide substance else things can get out of true and there is a danger of becoming simply emotional and even heretical. But too much focus on the word without developing a relationship with God leads to a dead spirit. The Westminster catechism says that "the chief end of man is to worship God and to enjoy Him forever".
And pastors should focus on "pastoring" they may have other gifting too but to simply say pastors should focus on preaching maybe to miss out on what God has called and gifted them for.
@@RichardBragg, is it of no consequence to you that God has said what worship He desires?
We need to worship God in spirit and in truth, not in "any music form".
"The form should suit the congregation and musicians." Nope. It should suit God!
@@GrahameGould I'm not saying that we ignore God but different people groups have different forms and they can all be good. A congregation comprised of thousands of Africans will sound and move and use different music and forms to a small group of elderly white ladies.
Richard: God has told us what pleases Him in public worship. It was mentioned by Dr. Ferguson, it is Colossians 3:16,17. 150 songs, all inspired by the Living God. Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, without any instruments is what is pleasing to the Triune God of the Scriptures. Of course I realize that that is not pleasing to fallen man.
I heard in Dr. Ferguson's talk that worship words in music must be doctrinal (a reformation practice). I don't find Biblical evidence for that position. I believe there is more emphasis that our worship should be TO God as opposed to ABOUT God (this does not decrease the import of correct doctrine). Yes, there are abuses in contemporary worship as there is in the person and works of the Holy Spirit, but we should be careful to keep what is true and avoid discarding Biblical truth on the basis of theory. I am very thankful for Dr. Ferguson's warning about the polemic.
+George Sparks John 4:24: "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." is the direct command from Jesus regarding worship. The "truth" here must be Biblical, not the general kind of truth. If it's Biblical, it must be doctrinal. The Samaritan woman's worship is "To God" without truth, but that's not the model Jesus teaches us to follow. If a "worship" is about self and is "To God", if God is not 100% the center that the worship is all ABOUT, if the "worship" can be about anything as long as it's addressed "To God", I am unsure I would call that worshiping God.
George Sparks. I suppose that I cannot find biblical support for things that I am biased against, that is human nature. The bible in both testaments support Dr. Ferguson. I have known him for 20 years, read all of his books, have listened to well over 1000 of his sermons and was blessed to have worshipped with him as my Senior Pastor for over seven years. He is without a doubt the most theologically astute, pastoral, and Godly men I have ever known. It is unusual to have someone judged uncharitably by another believer without cause. You should learn more about the man. He is a man and of course fallible, but rarely can a student of the bible, history and the reformation find him to be in error. The truth of the matter that should be researched thoroughly is the fact that the vast majority of worship over the last 150 years is corrupt and totally unbiblical. it has really deteriorated in the last 50 years. The church is very much like the people of the Old Testament, especially during the time of the Judges: "everyone does what is right in their own eyes".
Just finding out about Sinclair Ferguson, via You Tube. (I did see his name at Banner of Truth.). You have been truly blessed.
''Words in music must be doctrinal''.........''I don't find biblical evidence for that position''. Seriously? Bible, doctrine, worship; it's all there. No evidence? I truly don't understand your statement, they are all there connected, you can't have one without the other.
if you cant find biblical evidence , then you need to read the bible again
yes, i hear that verse means thus & so to me not the grammatical-historical meaning
“What does this verse mean to YOU?” 😖🤦🏼
@@madjack821a verse is what God said not what we think it means
@@brucemercerblamelessshamel3104 I know. I was agreeing with Your point
Sounds like what Tim Keller is doing.
I wish that this brother will take John MacArthur place when his journey ends at the Grace to you community.
Won't happen.
The transcript of this message needs quite a bit of work. Please see to it.
No, go home kid
This is "Filled with the spirit", not the Word of faith nonsence.
Tradition should not dictate what is acceptable in worship and this can become a cold lifeless, drab and dreary exercise. Yes, all things should be done decently and in order but not the order of a funeral procession or a graveyard. This is what you often get in Reformed Evangelical circles. There's such a running fear of bearing even the slightest resemblance to what could be considered 'charismatic' even where the charismatics are on the side of Scripture. A knee jerk reactionaryism can become prevalent where it's not 'what saith the Scriptures' but we'll do the opposite of what the charismatics do. In not a few Reformed churches, you won't hear anything sung that was penned by anyone still living today and I'm not talking about the 'exclusive psalmody' congregations either. That's not to say that being 'contemporary" is what really matters and there is a tendency to worship worship on the charismatic end of the spectrum. We need to get back to the heart of worship as the .Matt Redman song succinctly states and it's not about us it's all about Jesus and giving Him the pre-eminence. Whatever instrumentation if any is used or whatever style pales into insignificance when weighed against this measuring rod. There's good contemporary worship songs and there are others which are anything but. Same goes for hymns and a healthy balance should be struck between the old and new as long as the content is doctrinally sound and Christ centred.
It sounds like you are demonstrating that you are exactly what Dr. Ferguson is describing. Simply put, you personify "doing what is right in your own eyes". Maybe you should buy a Bible and read it and study it.
@@joeiiiful
I was essentially saying that we should worship 'in Spirit and in Truth' and be governed by Scripture, not tradition. I have quite a few Bibles thank you very much which I do study and seek to 'rightly divide', none of them based on the Critical Text and my preference being the KJV without being King James Only. Maybe you could take off your systematic Reformed theology goggles and read the Word more objectively with the Holy Spirit's leading, distinguishing what was/will be for Israel from what is for the Church in the days we live in.
Blood: your ignorance is only surpassed by your innate inability to realize that you have a serious problem. You don't know what you are talking about in anything you have commented on, but especially about Reformed churches. I suppose that someone told you that. Troll on somewhere else
@@bloodboughtbigphilr8266 whippy do. So you think that you are using the version Paul used? I can't take off my Reformed goggles or I would have to stop reading the Bible. You have no idea how to rightly divide the word of truth. You are steeped in False religion and I hope and pray that you are able, by God's mercy, to get away from it. You need to learn to read the Bible using a proper Biblical hermeneutic. You probably don't know what it is, but you can find out if you're interested. Dr. John Gertsner wrote an outstanding book that you should invest a few dollars in order to get out of the mess you are in. It is called: "Wrongly dividing the word of truth".
@@joeiiiful
I was not trolling on this channel. Quite a few who would be Reformed in their soteriology would concur with my original comment concerning worship. I see I got a few likes. At the time I posted it, which is nigh on 3 years ago, I would have still considered myself a Reformed Bapticostal. Since then, I've become less Reformed and much less Pentecostal and more and more dispensational in my hermeneutic. I am not a King James Onlyist which is an absurd and illogical position but the Majority Text on which the KJV and other decent versions are based would be very near to the form Paul's epistles took. So no, I do not lay claim to using the same Bible Paul did or any such strawman swipe that is made against those who affirm the supremacy of the Majority Text. I am well acquainted with the arguments made against dispensationalism and for a long time swallowed them in big part myself. The course of Scripture into Paul's prison epistles is an unfolding of the mystery of Christ and the church in these times of the Gentiles but when the fulness is come in, all Israel shall be saved and the Old Testament prophecies to them fulfilled in Christ's Millennial rule upon the earth.
I must say that your attitude exudes a most ungracious, unpleasant and accusatory tone and makes me think you would be in congruent company with the Pharisees of old.
I wonder if he has ever come face to face with a demon. True worship burns demons and renders them powerless. Holy fire is given by the Lord to His followers. I don’t think this man even touches on “living a lifestyle of worship”. Worship is more than music, it’s a lifestyle. What if he has some resentment and jealousy within?? The way he speaks about certain things is questionable. The Lord says The Fathers true worshippers will worship Him in spirit and truth… didn’t mention anything about song lyrics nor styles of songs. John 4:23
This is some good shit
True to the it 666 go away!
The word not s
Angry controlling man.
Love is telling the truth.
One cannot help but notice that "perform" as it is used in Sinclair Ferguson's presentation is not what perform means with respect to the liturgy. One performs the liturgy by doing the work of God according to God's authorised example handed down from the time of the apostles through all the ages down to today. Performing the liturgy is not and was not conceived as an entertainment that somebody presented to the faithful so that they would be astounded by its beauty and its spectacle. Insofar as Sinclair Ferguson misuses the term "perform the liturgy" he misrepresents the nature of middle ages worship.
you need to study the bible not your own flesh
Sadly, you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and certainly know nothing about Dr. Ferguson and what he is about. Try buying a Bible and then read it and study it.
@@joeiiiful written like a true Protestant who knows little of Catholic belief and practice. Reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church may be of benefit. God keep you and bless you.
Advocating the doctrine the doctrine of the trinity is the downfall of christianity.
Jesus denied being God twice.
Once before the cross and once after the cross.
Yet he said I and the Father are one? Also he said, if you have seen me you have seen the father?
@@wojo9732 He also said we would be one with them both, yet we won’t be the Father nor Christ. So why do we assume Christ is the Father? Look it up 🙂
Your misinterpretation, yea, even twisting of these two scriptures is far less evidence for your point, than the mountain of evidence against your point; in many dozens of scriptures.