Here is my latest episode and a new series too - the Holden Commodore! In this episode we cover the VB and all models to VF will be reviewed. Please hot the Like 👍 button as it doesn’t cost a thing and really helps the channel. Please also check put the Falcon and Fairlane episodes plus Valiant coming soon. Thanks for watching. 👍
VB was giving areodynamics to the buyer for first time in australian car ? Was it any good for towing that seems an australia must have the iconic trailer with tinnie maybe not so much now with so many SUV ford ranger etc for tradies.
I had a HZ sedan 202 dangerously underpowered roadholding and ergonomics for driver excellent note this i had recon engine fitted 208 with mild cam but extractors fitted carby new jet single barrel made a huge difference in power factory exhaust manifold was robbing much potential power KWs from engine holden must have known this looked like it was from a 1930s tractor holden were sadly wanting with decent engines until the 6pot VL..
@@markbehr88commodore areodynamic flush fit headlights intense areodynamic research on the cars ground effect areo system the sophisticated europeans giving us wild colonial boys the finer things in life and better fuel economy 🤣
Metalflake Silver 1979 VB SL/E V8 5.0litre automatic owner never had any problems towing (had structural rib plates) or in daily use. Had a wonderful sound from the dual exhaust, friends would hear me coming blocks away, so never needed to knock on their door. Front Passanger seat would shake if nobody was in it at 80km/h (from hellish exhaust drone). Handled well with RTS. Easy to increase engine power and drink more fuel, small fuel tank so would have to buy fuel everyday. Could watch fuel gauge dropping whilst driving. Would cruise at high speeds well, including running of end of speedo. Sold in the 2000’s due to increasing Police attention as they were always magnets for car thieves.
The old man bought a 4 speed 4.2L VB SL in ‘78, with the wipers on the headlights that he promptly removed. We did a lot of long distance driving and he found the engine woefully underpowered. Apparently a set of extractors and a 2.5” system made a big difference. He later traded it in on a new XE X-Pak Falcon in ‘82, which he much preferred. I remember having a poster of the Repco Trial on my wall too, lol. Great memories.
@@markbehr88 Oh yeah, it still sounded great. I’m the waiting until you get to the VL series to comment on which one I had 🤔. Let’s just say I wish I still had it. 😑
All these Australian cars were very undeveloped, with Ford & Holden having old inoficiant engines hampered by 27A pollution gear. The 4.2/253 V8 is an example. It comes from a time when the bigger Holden 6 (the big seller) was the 186 just over 3 liter, the higher powered 186S was slotted between the standard 186 & 253. However, within a few years you could buy a Falcon with a 6 almost as big as Holden's small V8 & a Valiant with an even bigger 6. So the Holden 253 was dated from the beginning. A bit like an early 90s unmodded lower powered versions of Ford & Holden V8s from the 1990s. Despite being 5 liters, they are not fast by todays standards. Interesting classics? YES! Daily transport? not so good.
Thanks for the memories. Bought a new VB Commodore in 1979 as an SL with 3.3l engine. Was very reliable for the 7 years I owned it. It was stolen after about 3 years and left running by thieves till it ran out of fuel after I had blacked out the front grill. I think they thought they were getting an S version with V8 when they took it. It still ran ok after the event fortunately. Did have strengthening bars fitted in boot for towing my caravan due to stories of bent panels due to towing. They seemed to work to save the car. After the theft I had a hidden starter cut out fitted as they didnt have much in the way of antitheft items. I hope the new owners found it and were not smokers as it was in the cigarette lighter and was activated by the use of the lighter.
As a Ford man i actually owned a few Commodores as all my mates were Holden fans. I had a VH which had a 173cui 4spd and man she was definitely a slug. Wasn't a bad car and Holden fans seemed to like my car more than me haha. But yeah i didn't mind it and my old man gave me hist old 186cui out of a HG he owned that had all the fruit, so when we dumped that in my VH it really woke her up
As a 9 year old child, my relative Gary imported West German cars, the 280S W116, also a 6.9 450SEL, and, gasp, an Opel Monza 2.8. What got me was the same 4bbl carb was used on the Mercedes, 156 HP, and on the the heavy old Six cylinder version of the Opel Cam in Head 1900, it made 140 hp net (104 kW) at 5200 rpm and 160 lb-ft / (218 Nm) at 3400 rpm. Holden had decided to keep the old 9 port headed engine, which had been updated to a 12 port via sedan racing, which made 216 to 235 hp gross in race trim. Holden had access to all the same technology Opel and Vauxhall had. The 4.2 litre was even slated for the Ventora in the United Kingdom. Holden's US overlords, who were making 85 HP Iron Duke 2.5 litre engines at the time, decided to put the restrictions on Holden's advances. Holden easily made 142 hp or 106 kW in the Later 12 port Electronic Injection VK. Despite what people thought was a 32 hp loss over the pre emission rating of 118 hp gross for the 173 ( 2.838 litre) engine, the loss wasn't due to emissions, it was due to the engines being rated as installed, or net hp. Both the Opel 1900 and the Starfire 1.892 litre Four, with two less cylinders made 60 kw or almost 81 hp in 2bbl form that year. Holden had the technology, the problem was, the dollars sucked into making the World Car work cost Holden as more than the whole XD Falcon revision
@@markbehr88 Best I can say is the Holden left 63% of the horsepower or Kilowatts off the table. 64 kW verses 104 kW. The 114 kW single pipe 5.0 would have been 172 kW if tuned like it was in the 1977 German 5.4 litre Opel Diplomat. That's objective truth, by the numbers.
@@markbehr88 Yea fair enough, I remember when Camira came out they marketed it as a "supercar" Turned out to be junk. One car that is often forgotten from the 1970's is the Chrysler Centura. With 245 Hemi and 4 speed manual in a smaller package. I had one and it went hard. Thanks for the videos and the reply,
Thank you Mark. This certainly refreshed my memory of all the controversy surrounding this smaller car and its relatively underdeveloped engines. Good summary. Cheers from NZ.
I bought a brand new Commodore Sports Pack in 1979. I can't say that I liked it all that much. While it went well and handled very well, it always felt flimsy to me. I had it for less than a year when I traded it for a V8 HQ Premier. A car that I was much happier with!
In 2004 I was doing an MBA at U Tas. I bought a first generation VB with a small in line 6 GMC (I think?) engine standard shift. . It was a champion and had some mods, notable mag wheels which were a tad out board, I ran it for about 6 months with the only issue being the wiper motor which I replaced at a wreckers (Manions) near Lonnie. I paid $1900 AUS and sold it to a student for $2200. Great little car. They would sell today in the ridiculous market these times. Just a gem of a car! Easily one of the best cars I ever drove.
My first car was a pre-loved 3.3 manual VB with alloy wheels. It seemed cool at the time, but looking back it was a bucket of bolts. It handled well, but the engine - heavy on fuel - and gutless to boot was the weak link in the design.
The dumbest move by Holden they had the HX and Torana then spent 110 million dollars to develop a European chassis for Australian conditions (ie crap roads) I actually heard they gave up and basically used a HQ chassis? Only saved 100-200 kgs in weight best I can tell. Then wait for it with no money left, put the pollution controlled red motor into it, 14mpg 3.3 litre. They also did not even plan a station wagon, ute, panelvan, one tonner or statesman body FFS. So had to keep the HX WB series going anyway! They should have just put the Torana on a diet and spent the dollars on a new or updated 6 and V8 engine. Viewers should also watch your excellent video on the XD falcon to compare what Ford did . What was Holdens marking people thinking. Have you ever tried to put 3 large Australian men across the back seat of a VB commodore! Great video👍
I have very happy memories of my VB Commodore, owned it for 4 years and hardly spent any money on it. I paid $990 for a reconditioned motor after buying the car for $1500, other than tuneups and a change of tyres and brake pads all it took was a replacement universal joint and steering box. Drove it 90000 km across 4 states and only needed to get it towed once when it lost a welch plug. It never failed to start when I turned the key, unlike a couple of Toranas I had before that.
I used to have a vb commodore with 253 v8 manual 4spd. In rattle can matt black.... Man i miss that car. I had to get rid of it because of the resonance of the upgraded exhaust at highway speeds was painfully loud and i had my young family at the time. But yeah very reliable car/engine.
@@markbehr88 so many cars I bought for cheap when was young I wish I still had... 😫 Hg premier 253 v8 Chrysler centura Uc Torana Corolla ke11 (first car) Toyota fj40 Try and buy any of them now... Crazy. Hindsight 20/20
@markbehr88 only 46yrs young btw..🤣 I never spent more that 2k on any of those cars to buy them. I did alot of work to them though and always sold at a "profit"... The fun was in the experience in working on them and the satisfaction.. And I never wanted to sell any of them but had to at the time.. I guess we all have those stories..
In 1981 when I lost my beloved A9X to a truck taking it out, I purchased a VC SLE with the turbo 400 and 308V8, this was an awesome car and a chick magnet with the rumble dual exhaust. I later traded it in for a Ford XE ESP 5.8. I loved that car too.
Few cars reminded you quite so successfully that you purchased the el cheapo version with those blanking plate switches right up there in your line of vision every time you drove it.
I'm going to go in deep here , my observation with the old manual 3 speed 6 cylinder Holdens, is that they seemed like there should have been a fourth gear to change into , because they were revving too hard at highway speed, but I realized that revving hard was how they made power , short stroke , not enough cubic inches, and little in the way of torque. The opposite of long stroke Valiant engines with abundant torque. 😮
My first car was a VB Commodore. It was that pastel green colour. I loved that car, it was a 3.3 litre 303 (?) motor from memory. Mine built October 1979. It served me well from 1985 to 1998. The dashboard cracked to hell and back is what I recall.
I was at Sydney Showground when the '79 Repco Rally came thru. They were over 3/4 the way around and most cars were mobile wrecks, especially the Cortinas. The Commodores were still motoring along. The VB I thought was pretty advanced for the time, but was let down a bit on the engine, still suffering from the ADR27A emissions regs. This was rectified a lot with the introduction of the "blue" motors from the VC onwards.
@@thunderbird1454 Yes. You are right. The level of preparation and support of the Repco cars was far better than the other teams. A bit like what Lincoln did in the Carrera Pan American races. 👍
And yet Volvo came fourth behind the Holdens with next to no assistance like Holden received. And similar power against the 6cyl Commodore. Interesting things that get forgotten.
@@Low760 I agree. It was also a reliability trial for the fleet on HZ panel vans that followed them around the country. Yes, Holden threw a bucket load of money at it and what better publicity could you get for the newly released Commodores. I also have the very large publicity posters they released to the dealers after the win.
Those 1, 2, 3 Commodores were exceptionally well prepared. As body shells hand picked and reinforced, then the rest of the car hand built, it would have been disappointing to see them not make it.
@@markbehr88 There is good reason that the Trimatic was called the "Traumatic" in the trade. One of my TAFE teachers worked at Holden when the traumatic was being introduced. No test rigs or computers the test regime was to floor the accelerator and cycle the selector between drive and reverse. With the lacklustre performance of the six cylinder models the Traumatic passed the tests. It failed with every V8 however and was still unleashed on an unsuspecting public. The 253 engines made hardly any more power than the asthmatic sixes but burned more fuel.
I think I read the Trimatic ironed out a lot of the problems with their weakness later in their run. Which is why I'd avoid an HG with it. Still, WB Statesman and Caprice owners must have felt cheated after Holden switched from GM's Torqueflite the TH400 to GM's Borg Warner 35, the Trimatic.
I like how you mentioned the Commodore body structure wasent up to scratch. I remember when I was younger and Commodores were everywhere on our roads, alot of Commodores were splitting in half- Literally-! In heavy impacts such as T-bone, head on or hit a telegraph pole, they would split in half at the B pillar. Terrifying to see it on the news many times!!
A VC SL came up for sale on the GC for $7500 about 10 years ago when I was looking around for a toy. It had 36,000 on the clock and I wish I bought it. But I was really after a SL/E 5.0. 12 months later the prices went through the roof and an SL/E never came up at a reasonable price. Missed the boat sadly and had to settle for a 1977 450SEL but sold that after 2 years as I felt too embarrassed to drive it as I felt like a dictator.
Still a strikingly elegant car that faded with each new model until the VR arrived. I don't know about the VB but the VC blue 3.3 sounded a lot different to the Kingswood's red 3.3s. Perhaps it was due to reworking and revised exhaust.
In 2001 a mate of mine had one. He parked it out the front of our house one night and when he went to leave noticed it was missing. Obviously he called the police they reported and took his details, he was concerned about what he would get for insurance and the constable replied “maybe enough for a carton of vb”
Thoroughly enjoyed this one mark and you are a thorough gentleman. Love all your productions. I grew up in the era of these cars and back then you could see the difference between a kingswood and a falcon or a valiant unlike today. I had a HZ Kingswood 253 as a first car and years later a VH vacationer sedan with 253. They may not have produced much kw power but still has decent torque. I can remember they would push you back in your seat when putting your foot down. But as you say they were a lot lighter back then unlike the ridiculous heavy weight of cars today. Thanks heaps for sharing 👍
Very good video and great great research/ information. I remember Car Magazine included the top Holden Commodore in a test against the usual European sports saloons, BMW M5, Merc Cosworth, etc, in 1987 group test. This was interesting to me as my dad and other family members owned many big Opels over the years and I knew of the connection. The Senator/ Monza were great cars and could trade punches with anything in their respective class. GM should have offered you guys Euro spec. versions with the 3.0 CIH. I think Peter Brock had a Monza with a V8 fitted.
Thanks very much. Yes, the SL/E accounted for itself well compared to the Euro cars, especially for the price. Brock did import a Monza and fitted an HDT V8 to it. What a shame it did not go into production. When I was at Holden, one of my dealers, Paul Wakeling, had that very car for sale in his showroom. I thought it looked terrific. 👍
Thanks Mark. Just subscribed. Looking forward to your Holden series. I love my Holdens and have had a few. Currently Im lucky enough to have a 1994 vr a 1997 vs a 2001 vx and a 1979 HZ one Tonner. My daily is a VE commodore. Holdens are cool. From a Kiwi fan. Also my son drives a VE berlina and loves it. All my commys are berlinas Too.
@@darrylcampbell4411 Excellent and thanks for subscribing! When I was Holden NZ Sales Manager we were selling the VR and VS models and when I returned to Australia in Product Planning, was responsible for the VX. There is a VX SS ep on the channel that may interest you plus a review on a friend’s VE. 👍
Good video mate , I must confess I was never an early commodore fan , I always preferred the earlier dare I say it , proper Aussie big sedans hj/hx/hz models , I didn't mind the Toranas either , gtr/xu1 right through to the end . My old man had a base model HQ one tonner 253 , three on the tree with no power steering , the commercial grille and bumper and commercial wheels and tyres , it had the heaviest steering I'd ever experienced in a motor car ..... It was horrible 😊, a reliable old bus though😊. The VE series commy I'll be honest I didn't think much of them until one day I was travelling down a mountain through a series of heavy winding curves , the commie was a VE high end model like a statesman equivalent with the V8 , and I was trying to pace him , and he drove away like out of sight easily with road holding and grip levels that blew me away. Holden really had those things dialled in . I look forward to your next one Mark.
Hi Mark, a car that looks familiar to me as the Vauxhall Viceroy this car was identical to the Holden Commodore VB. The Viceroy was the front end of the Vauxhall Royale ( Opel Senator ) and the rear end of the Vauxhall Carlton ( Opel Record ) The Viceroy was fitted with a straight six 2.5 litre engine. The Carlton was fitted with a four cylinder 1.8 ,2.0 and 2.3 The Royale was fitted with 2.5 and 3.0 six cylinder engines unfortunately no V8. The Vauxhall range of these cars came out in 1978 about the same time as the Commodore. I think the body panels came from Germany and assembled at the Vauxhall plant in Luton in UK. good story on the VB Commodore as always a great video Take care
@@shaun30-3-mg9zs Thanks Shaun. I saw the Viceroy as part of my research. Personally I liked theSenator the best out of the UK/Euro variants but would take a 5 litre V8 SL/E over them. 👍
If my memory is correct the VB model was my second car I owned. Traded my Valiant Charger for it. The VB was dark blue with fawn interior. I swapped the SL badges for SLE badges 😂 It was initially a very nice car but it deteriorated a fair bit while I had it. Ultimately it got T boned by a bus that went through a stop sign 😢
Thanks Mark. The other Achilles heel with the VB was the manufacturing/build quality. My then father-in-law had a new SLE 4.2, a very nice car I thought. He effectively had it mechanically rebuilt over a relatively short ownership period. Pride in ownership dissipated, and his next car was the Honda Prelude 4-wheel steer. Buying a Honda was a struggle for him, as he had been shot at by the Japanese in WW2. However, the need for reliability and the then Honda success in Formula 1 won him over. It too was a very nice car, with great build quality and reliability.
I bought one brand new traded my xc v8 Falcon PV ...bought a 2.8 manual ... took it out for a top speed spin ....162 kph .... amazing!! THEN i top spec tuning friend of mine said Bring it to my shop !!!! ...Cleaned 1/2 inch od silt ..yes. silt from the carby...drilled out the main jet ...replaced the non working vacuum advance on the dizzy...fitted a Davies craig thermo fan ...took it out for a top speed run ...190 kph .!!! All mods cost $150 back them ...the VB was a great car for its time 😊
Good informative video. Well researched. How much did Holden Straya have to spend shoehorning the longer senator front end on to the Rekord to fit the 6 cylinder? Rumor has it that GM rooly shafted the Strayin manufacture by not giving them the Senator from the start to work with. So much so, that there was no money left to offer an actual engine, so Holden had to offer them to market with the 1915 designed push rod asthma inflicted Chevy 6 cylinder gas hog.
1993 and my P plate mate bought a VB 4.2 manual commo as his first car from Parramatta Rd. Metallic green, pin strips. Sounded good. I had a hotted up 1275cc mini. Wasn't much in it performance wise. Great times
Thank you Mark. This was really good! I liked the information and footage. I see they used the Sunbird name at Holden. I am sure you know it was a Pontiac nameplate in the United States. GM was doing global cars back then it seems. I like the images and footage of the Holden version, the Opel and Vauxhall version and the GM South Africa Cheverolet version. Global car indeed. Some of those proposals looked better than the production model. The car was the right size for Australia. It was a big change for Holden with a aging lineup. I am shocked how small it was. Ford was winning buyers with the Falcon.That segment was highly competitive. The SLE I asume was equal to a future Calais. I enjoyed the episode and learning about so much.
@@OLDS98 Thanks very much Olds98. Glad you liked it. I will be covering all of the Commodores as we go forward, as well as the Ford Fairlane and Chrysler Valiant plus many more. 👍
@@markbehr88 I will be watching and I look forward to it as well. You have a vast knowledge and it is appreciated., This is getting interesting indeed,
Loving these series Mark. Thanks for that. I also noticed your input on Peter Anderson's live feed the other night. Love Peter's channel too. Fantastic bloke. So are you Mark. Cheers buddy.
@@byronmitchell2067 Thanks. I always try to include relevant Ford, Holden, Chrysler information re competition so it gives context and appeals to more people. 👍
So many memories! Firstly, I remember seeing a VB commodore split in half after a side impact when it pulled out in front of a Ford Bronco! My mum had a 4.2L manual VC. Dad put heads, cam and exhaust on it, but was never happy with performance...and Mum hated the lumpy idle. Also remember there was only 8 different key styles for the VB making it a breeze to steal!
The Commodore C was first shown in late 1977, at the same time as the Rekord E. It was the Opel Commodore and Vauxhall Viceroy that formed the basis for the first Holden Commodore in Australia, and was sold in South Africa as the Chevrolet Commodore until 1982, when it was rebadged as an Opel. The South African Commodore was introduced in July 1978, at the same time as the Rekord E went on sale there.[12] These originally had Chevrolet engines, pushrod inline-sixes of 3.8 or 4.1 liters.[13] Sold as a standard or a GL (with the 4.1 only available as a sedan with automatic transmission), the South African version replaced the earlier Chevrolet 3800 and 4100, also based on the Commodore.
Enjoy your videos Mark. Keep 'em coming. I was working for Bill Patterson Holden in Pre Delivery when the VB was released. We got the cars two weeks before release and test dove them around Ringwood. Used to get a lot of puzzled looks from people trying to work out what sort of car it was. The build quality was a bit rough around the edges. You could drive 4 cars, all the same model and they felt completely different , from gutless and noisy, to smooth and fast . It paid to road test the car you were going to buy first. Personally would have bought a HZ Premier 308 with all the fruit over a Commodore SL/E. Holden really didn't get the build quality up to scratch until the VT. Holdens I have owned were FE Special Sedan, FB Special Sedan, HD Special Sedan, LH Torana Plus 4, UC Torana SL with Luxury Pack and 4 wheel discs, HX Kingswood Sedan and a VN Toyota Lexcen. Current car is a Ford BF2 XR6 .
I have a '79 base model wagon with a few optional extras, green with tan interior, 3.3 litre (has been replaced with what I think is a HQ 3.3, so sadly not matching numbers), 4 speed, 3.36 ratio diff, variable intermittent wipers, passenger side seat and originally had the windscreen sunshade, but has since been removed. My grandfather reportedly ordered it ahead of release when having an early retirement. He had a HR Special wagon with a 186S before then (I think it was red and white two tone) which he also bought new. My opinion is that the VB looks better than the VC, but the VC is objectively better handling in the real world. My favourite first gen will always be the VK (though maybe not with the then nearly 40 year old 6 cylinder)
Great video. I love the history of local Australian cars. Is there any chance of doing a full history on the Holden Statesman series cars? My late father bought a brand new HX Caprice in blue with a beige vinyl roof. Those were gorgeous cars.
@@markbehr88 In NZ there were Starfire 4''s from VB to VK and I believe most were manual gearboxes. Equally in the Vauxhall/Opel's of the late 80's early 90's were 4 cylinder Family 2 1.8 or 2.0 powered just like as available in the later VN. If only Holden had used the 6 cylinder Qpel CIH engine...
@@paulhoogeveen7353 Yes, I am only really covering the Australian spec cars. Agree they should have considered other engines but it would have been a cost factor. 👍
Good vid mate. I remember when these come out. GMs as usual spent a fortune in marketing trying to convince everybody these were a new generation. They were just Kingswoods with a different body. GMs chuck a few bells and whistles like the headlight washer/wipers (WTF). I can’t remember exactly which one but one of the early Commodore models had an economy gauge which worked on engine vacuum.
I think they did a good job considering the age of the platform. They should have spent more on the engine and leveraged it for the Commodore as well. 👍
Lol 87kw from a 4.2 V8!, by comparison for example a 2024 Toyota Corolla Ascent has 126kw from a 2.0 engine and is quite a bit lighter, seems like technology has come a long way since then. I think you could also get the VB with a 4 cylinder Sunbird engine as well?
It was at this point that I started liking Holdens! Holden finally made cars that handled and drove well 😉. The win (and first and third) by Brock and Holden in the 1979 Repco Round Australia Trial was truly monumental and as an 18yo at the time had a huge impact on me. (Yes, many years later I also ended up rallying a Commodore).
The Commodores with the old red motor had the steering rack in the less than optimum position because the red motor sump got in the way of the position for correct alignment, hit a bump and the wheel did not rise straight but, from mermory kicked out a bit, this problem was rectified when the Nissan 6 was fitted which had the sump pan in a better position.
When we saw the vb come out we felt that was the end for Holden. We had grown up with the H series and this European styling and its size felt like it wasn’t an Aussie car anymore. Much preferred the XD falcon when they ditched their X series as well. The cops must have thought so too because all the RTA cars were 351 XDs. Never liked the commodores, until my son bought his first VE, they got that one right.
Great video I remember the 4.2 sle you drove .l must be a Holden man as soon as I saw this video had to watch it Love the red on red SLE s keep up the good work thanks Mark
During the very early '80s, Dad's company had bought one Opel Commodore carburated 2,5 Litre IL6, m/t. In 1986 the Opel Commodore has been replaced to a then brand new Opel Omega A series 2.0 Litre IL4, m/t.
@@markbehr88 since 1978 Opel ditched the V8 on the Old Continent. Rekord had only IL4 petrol and diesel. Short lived Commodore had only IL6 2.5 Lit. Senator-A had IL4 both petrol and diesel as well as IL6 engines. Monza had only IL6. But by our terms these were huge cars, especially the IL6. So smaller 4 cyl. models ruled the market. Rekord was best seller. Commodore and Senator-A was less popular in the huge car category. Higher taxation.
@@szilardtoth8814 Yes, I will probably do some episodes down the track on the V8 powered Opel based cars as they were very interesting and had some similar styling cues to our Holden HD. 👍
Very enjoyable video. As far as engine output is concerned, it's worth keeping in mind somewhere in the 70's they changed from Gross BHP to Net BHP. I think with Net they had to measure it with all the ancillaries connected but I don't know the exact details. Also I believe in '76 ADR27a Vehicle emissions standard kicked in, a bit like what happened in the USA early in the 70's where BHP dropped to ridiculously low levels on Giant V8's. I guess the saving grace for V8's was good Torque compared to 6's. I think Holden relied a bit on blind faith from the Australian public and without that maybe they might have put some effort into increasing output and economy with the engines. Of course that blind faith evaporated real quick when they killed off Local production and they were gone shortly after.
Gosh, at least you guys had 6 cylinder options, I'm sure our base options were 4 cylinder here in nz. Maybe that was later on? We had a 1985 Royale, which was a 4 cylinder.
Really loving your channel, mate. So much info to look back on, and even learn a few things I didn't know. You touched briefly on the Magna. Awesome car. Can you do a Chrysler/Mitsubishi series on the Sigma thru to 380? Keep up the great work!
The only problem with the VB &vc was the over heating in traffic with the AC would over heating to over the problem put 4cylider thermostat and over come the problem
Funny that you showed the CH Chrysler Hardtop when saying you could buy some very nice cars cheap then. A mate bought precisely one of those for $1500, and used it as his carpentry work 'ute' in '82. Try buying one now 🤣
He- i can remember my Pop having to have his VB floor pan welded a nber of times (where the seats bolt down to). Same thing again when he bought a VH- had to have the floor pan welded. He traded it in for a 5.8lt auto XD sedan, that car is still in our family (my uncle has done a semi restore on it)
I owned a VC Commodore and it had the larger 6 cylinder engine and l bought the Commodore second hand a couple of years old it had a few options like air conditioning power steering cloth seats height adjustable drivers seat and was metallic blue with blue interior it was a good car changed the engine on it because the main crankshaft seal went from memory it was pretty cheap
@@nkelly.9 I’ve heard that when I left Holden to go to Ford’s advertising agency. Then they said it to me when I went to HSV. Then they said it to me when I went to FPV. Maybe that’s why I’ve always liked Darth Vader? 😀👍
@@markbehr88 Oh wow! I can't wait! Love them. Slant six, tuff as, Torqueflite, best three speed auto that has ever been made. Handle tons of power. I have a 1990 330HP Aston Martin in my shop with a Torqueflite from factory, although not with pushbutton controls. All the automatic Astons used them up to mid 90's then they used a four speed Torqueflite. Jensen Interceptor also used Torqueflite. Used for over three decades and hardly improved upon. Thanks so much for your efforts Mark, you are a bloody champion! (apart from this low rent holden stuff......) ;)
Only Holden I ever owned! A 1979 VB SL with the red engine to replace a dead Corolla. Very green car, sick green vinyl interior, dodgy handling, dead steering & awful braking. It did look ok & I believe the 71kW. Higher grades were nicer inside. I hope the V8s got suspension & brake upgrades! _Why so late on a Tuesday night Mark?_
@@UncleJoeLITE It wasn’t too late when I launched it. Thought I’d continue the roll after breaking 5000 Subscribers and the success of the Japanese Chryslers. 👍
3 things: Golden Fleece ... whoa I remember those service stations, once you were past Katoomba on the GWH (heading to central west NSW) it was "Golden Fleece" all the way (also Mobile) from memory Golden fleece were incorporated into the CA:LTEX service station fleet and now owned by AMPOL. Even though I'm a Ford fan I do quite like the GMH implementation of GM Opel designed instrument panel and gauges right up to VH, the VK were dead set awful and the VL were trying too hard to be "80's computer techy". You forgot to mention the GM Daewoo "Royale" which is the sister "V" car for south Korean market, has HMH Commodore front end wit GM Opel Senator rear end. That mock up (at 7:29) looks very similar t the VL Commodore front end and side guard profile, I've never seen that pic before and assume its from mid 70's? which suggest to me that even back then GMH had issues with the "VB" design but took 10 years to get it right for he VL Commodore wit the bi-focus lights. As always great work Mark.
@@351tgv Thanks very much. I remember Golden Fleece service stations, especially the small rural ones where, at dusk you would see the illuminated Merinos on top of the bowsers. 👍
Yep, the shadow tone was a good-looking car for the day, as it was mentioned in the doco, it would have been a better car if it was wider, but carrying over the engines from the kingswood era just made it a new car with old school engines.
I never had VB , but had a VC 4 cylinder, and despite the 4 cylinder having a bad name , it served me well, the only thing that went wrong was a broken alternator bracket. Later on I had a VH that was originally a 4 cylinder, but was fitted with a lumpy cammed 173 ,which was pretty good and had decent power , but the gearbox wore out pretty fast. And I had a VL 2.0 litre which ran smooth, but really didn't have enough power , and developed a computer problem that nobody seemed to be able to fix . And I had an immaculate VK Berlina with the 3.3 fuel injected motor , it was pretty fast, but when required to tow a boat it damn near heamorraged on hills , no torque to speak of , and very thirsty, my good old 245 Valiant would hardly have noticed that load. I'm sure the V8 models would have been a lot more pleasing, I loved the early racing Commodore's , especially the group C's. And I would very happily own a VL Walkinshaw. But generally, not too impressed with the 6 cyl Commodore's , until the Buick v6 models, Iv'e owned a 200,000 km VX for about three years now , and I really couldn't be more impressed, it's just a great car , the American running gear made a big difference. IMO.
Saw my first one up close in western Qld. Wealthy lady had an Sle. Except the red interior was completely white. With dust. Absolutely no dust sealing for dirt roads. I couldn't believe this plush limousine was a dusty shtbox.
Thanks very much. I appreciate it. Great to see the channel grow too with Subscribers. There is a lot of love for our Aussie cars. Next episode will be the R series Valiant as part of a full Chrysler Valiant series. 👍
In 1987, i replaced my HG Kingswood 186 manual sedan with a VB Commodore 202 auto sedan. I had it three years. It was ok in terms of getting you from A to B, but had a list of issues that left me a little peeved: a motor that ran on after you turned off the key, an interior that fell to bits around me, a windscreen demister so weak, i needed a rag on wet and humid days, the Trimatic ran very rough unless you constantly topped up the oil level and a useless air-conditioner that didn't heat or cool the car. The am only radio was very stingy by 1978. Holden should have offered better by then, a cassette unit or at least fm function as well. If i could have my time over, I'd replace the HG with a Torana, not a Commodore. They were generally better built.
Had a green VB with the green interior,then had a burgundy VH with the brown interior then blue VK with the blue interior then went to vs with grey then to vectra Bach to wh2 carprice x2 then to Wm caprice and Finally after 30 years of photographing commodore I have a 6.2lt Calais v with light Titanium interior 💔💔💔🫶🫡😭😭😭I miss Holden
@@markbehr88 yea I’ve have forgot the two ts Sri’s 2.2lt and a turbo that I still have with only 80,000km and a LX8 good work but this is going to be a hard series for me my eyes watered just seeing the Lang Lang background in photos(crash lab) anyway thanks for the memory’s
My spies (at the time) told me that a Japanese manufacturer had offered a 4 cyl engine that had way more power than the old 202. Yet Holden went to that stupid Starfire.
The Mitsubishi 2.6 litre was fitted at one point, with a 5 spd box it would have been an absolute winner at the time. But I guess, cost and local content may have been an issue.
I know it's slightly off-topic, but I went to the trade release of the Sunbird, held in the Maribyrnong area. GMH unwisely provided various competitors' cars so that we could benchmark the Sunbird; must have seemed like a good idea at the time...The consensus was that the Starfire engine was useless and that it would maybe make a decent boat anchor. All the competitor cars were better than the Sunbird.
The Repco reliability trials really didn't display their real reliability, as the team changed out major driveline and suspension components before they had a chance to fail! The engines used were basically an XU1 engine!
@@markbehr88 I heard the story off a mate years ago and I never believed it then about a month ago it popped up on fb group I'm on with the images and the original Canberra Times article on it
@@markbehr88 looking at the pics its later than a vb/vc plastic pumper looks like vk any how the article from the Canberra Times has all he details and pics says the car was only two weeks old I could send it to you if you are iinterested
@@Thepigfromthepot The design was earlier as you can see on the number plate 197X so has to pre-date 1978 as you would not do that for just the following year. 👍
I agree with the interior colours of those times which were colourful unlike today where they seem to have taken a page out of Henry Ford's book where you can have any interior colour you like as long as its black. It's the same with exterior colours where they've taken a page out of the old communist East European countries where you can have any colour you like as a long as it's bleak. I've had no experience in Holden ownership of any Holden as I've only driven a sort of Holden in the Colorado a work provided car which was probably more Isuzu than Holden and no I didn't like it. Although if truth be told as a kid I always like the VB Commodore especially in the SLE for at the time it just looked right.
@@markbehr88 considering the photos you used for your video, anyone could get them using google images which most are subjected to copyright (unless you have permission which I highly doubt). Had you googled "Holden Pagewood plant" you would have found tons of images of the Holden Pagewood plant over the years. Considering that I used to live 2 blocks away from the actual plant when it was still functioning through to its takeover by British-American Tobacco, there are better images and again most are copyrighted. So yeah mate, I've added more to my comment & next time you do a video, get permission or at least acknowledge the owner(s) of the image.
@@1969Risky You really don’t know what you are talking about. I worked for GM for over 9 years and have made plenty of content so know the obligations. I haven’t looked at your channel’s content yet but I am sure it is excellent based on your critique of mine. I used that image intentionally to highlight how long the Pagewood plant was in operation for. I have actually been in the plant when it was making cars. There is no copyright on that image as it is a press release image for publicity. Anyway, I’ll check your channel out. 👍
Just saw your two videos on the channel. They are Holden Limited Dealer release videos, so no actual produced content from you. Just uploads of Holden owned content.
@@markbehr88 Thank you for that. The DVD it came from was from a Holden dealer from the mid north coast who was going to throw it away. I uploaded it with a disclosure to TH-cam, not for profit but for posterity as you can't find them anymore. I didn't load them on to make money.
Why was the VB so low on power as these motors in the Kingswood had more power, 64 kilowatts from the 2.8 is dreadful when the sunbird had 60 kilowatts from the Starfire motor which was the 2.8 minus two cylinders.
@@Djr67 You may need to look at whether the Sunbird was quoted as gross or net HP? Either way, they were quite under powered in six cylinder form with that 2.85 engine. 👍
@@markbehr88 186S in monaro had a reasonable punch with 4 speed first time i made 100mph barely (160kph) better than 225 auto VF sedan 160hp badged it isnt like holden didnt know how to make an engine rev out.
Kw differences probably due to emissions. Although the 2850 only had 6kw more than the Starfire it had around 35nm more torque and was over a second quicker over the quarter mile 20.8 vs mid 19's in the 2850.
Emissions regulations had just come out a couple of years earlier, it really made a huge difference to power and fuel economy, all cars suffered the same problems back then, it wasnt until a decade later until they had fuel injection and electronic ignition and power began to increase from then
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
Here is my latest episode and a new series too - the Holden Commodore! In this episode we cover the VB and all models to VF will be reviewed. Please hot the Like 👍 button as it doesn’t cost a thing and really helps the channel. Please also check put the Falcon and Fairlane episodes plus Valiant coming soon. Thanks for watching. 👍
VB was giving areodynamics to the buyer for first time in australian car ? Was it any good for towing that seems an australia must have the iconic trailer with tinnie maybe not so much now with so many SUV ford ranger etc for tradies.
@@Eric-kn4yn Not sure how aerodynamic it was? Maybe better than the standard but most of the standard were relative bricks. 👍
I had a HZ sedan 202 dangerously underpowered roadholding and ergonomics for driver excellent note this i had recon engine fitted 208 with mild cam but extractors fitted carby new jet single barrel made a huge difference in power factory exhaust manifold was robbing much potential power KWs from engine holden must have known this looked like it was from a 1930s tractor holden were sadly wanting with decent engines until the 6pot VL..
@@markbehr88commodore areodynamic flush fit headlights intense areodynamic research on the cars ground effect areo system the sophisticated europeans giving us wild colonial boys the finer things in life and better fuel economy 🤣
@@Eric-kn4yn And then the Audi 100 came along and the game changed forever. 👍
Metalflake Silver 1979 VB SL/E V8 5.0litre automatic owner never had any problems towing (had structural rib plates) or in daily use. Had a wonderful sound from the dual exhaust, friends would hear me coming blocks away, so never needed to knock on their door. Front Passanger seat would shake if nobody was in it at 80km/h (from hellish exhaust drone). Handled well with RTS. Easy to increase engine power and drink more fuel, small fuel tank so would have to buy fuel everyday. Could watch fuel gauge dropping whilst driving. Would cruise at high speeds well, including running of end of speedo. Sold in the 2000’s due to increasing Police attention as they were always magnets for car thieves.
@@Mega-G-Star Yes, good you had the strengthening at the back. They did sound really good. And a nice package in SL/E form with the 5 litre. 👍
As a US owner of a VF SS in the form of a Chevy SS, I'm enjoying learning about Aussie automotive history, especially anything Holden. Thanks!
@@davidburnette5158 Great to hear it and excellent choice of car. 👍
The old man bought a 4 speed 4.2L VB SL in ‘78, with the wipers on the headlights that he promptly removed. We did a lot of long distance driving and he found the engine woefully underpowered. Apparently a set of extractors and a 2.5” system made a big difference. He later traded it in on a new XE X-Pak Falcon in ‘82, which he much preferred.
I remember having a poster of the Repco Trial on my wall too, lol. Great memories.
@@davodrums Those 4.2 V8s could be made to sound pretty good too. 👍
@@markbehr88 Oh yeah, it still sounded great. I’m the waiting until you get to the VL series to comment on which one I had 🤔. Let’s just say I wish I still had it. 😑
@@davodrums Yes, VL will be an interesting episode for sure 👍
All these Australian cars were very undeveloped, with Ford & Holden having old inoficiant engines hampered by 27A pollution gear. The 4.2/253 V8 is an example. It comes from a time when the bigger Holden 6 (the big seller) was the 186 just over 3 liter, the higher powered 186S was slotted between the standard 186 & 253.
However, within a few years you could buy a Falcon with a 6 almost as big as Holden's small V8 & a Valiant with an even bigger 6.
So the Holden 253 was dated from the beginning. A bit like an early 90s unmodded lower powered versions of Ford & Holden V8s from the 1990s. Despite being 5 liters, they are not fast by todays standards.
Interesting classics? YES! Daily transport? not so good.
@@johnsergei Daily back in the day. Collector cars now 👍
Thanks for the memories. Bought a new VB Commodore in 1979 as an SL with 3.3l engine. Was very reliable for the 7 years I owned it. It was stolen after about 3 years and left running by thieves till it ran out of fuel after I had blacked out the front grill. I think they thought they were getting an S version with V8 when they took it. It still ran ok after the event fortunately. Did have strengthening bars fitted in boot for towing my caravan due to stories of bent panels due to towing. They seemed to work to save the car. After the theft I had a hidden starter cut out fitted as they didnt have much in the way of antitheft items. I hope the new owners found it and were not smokers as it was in the cigarette lighter and was activated by the use of the lighter.
Thanks. Very interesting to hear from an owner. I am glad you got your car back in one piece. That is rare!
As a Ford man i actually owned a few Commodores as all my mates were Holden fans. I had a VH which had a 173cui 4spd and man she was definitely a slug. Wasn't a bad car and Holden fans seemed to like my car more than me haha. But yeah i didn't mind it and my old man gave me hist old 186cui out of a HG he owned that had all the fruit, so when we dumped that in my VH it really woke her up
@@Twenty_Six_Hundred I find myself liking most of our Aussie cars these days. 🤔👍
As a 9 year old child, my relative Gary imported West German cars, the 280S W116, also a 6.9 450SEL, and, gasp, an Opel Monza 2.8. What got me was the same 4bbl carb was used on the Mercedes, 156 HP, and on the the heavy old Six cylinder version of the Opel Cam in Head 1900, it made 140 hp net (104 kW) at 5200 rpm and 160 lb-ft / (218 Nm) at 3400 rpm. Holden had decided to keep the old 9 port headed engine, which had been updated to a 12 port via sedan racing, which made 216 to 235 hp gross in race trim. Holden had access to all the same technology Opel and Vauxhall had. The 4.2 litre was even slated for the Ventora in the United Kingdom. Holden's US overlords, who were making 85 HP Iron Duke 2.5 litre engines at the time, decided to put the restrictions on Holden's advances. Holden easily made 142 hp or 106 kW in the Later 12 port Electronic Injection VK. Despite what people thought was a 32 hp loss over the pre emission rating of 118 hp gross for the 173 ( 2.838 litre) engine, the loss wasn't due to emissions, it was due to the engines being rated as installed, or net hp. Both the Opel 1900 and the Starfire 1.892 litre Four, with two less cylinders made 60 kw or almost 81 hp in 2bbl form that year. Holden had the technology, the problem was, the dollars sucked into making the World Car work cost Holden as more than the whole XD Falcon revision
@@deanstevenson6527 Very interesting. I am not surprised though. Crazy shooting one’s self in the foot wasn’t it? 🤔👍
@@markbehr88 Best I can say is the Holden left 63% of the horsepower or Kilowatts off the table. 64 kW verses 104 kW. The 114 kW single pipe 5.0 would have been 172 kW if tuned like it was in the 1977 German 5.4 litre Opel Diplomat. That's objective truth, by the numbers.
@@deanstevenson6527 A shame as it would have transformed the cars. 👍
Awesome Mark, cannot wait to watch your Commodore series!
Thanks very much. Hope you enjoy it. 👍
@@markbehr88 There was also the Holden Camira from 1982
@@tubester4567 Yes, I was looking at the range in 1978. 👍
@@markbehr88 Yea fair enough, I remember when Camira came out they marketed it as a "supercar" Turned out to be junk. One car that is often forgotten from the 1970's is the Chrysler Centura. With 245 Hemi and 4 speed manual in a smaller package. I had one and it went hard. Thanks for the videos and the reply,
@@tubester4567 Yes that JB was not a good car despite looking ok. The later ones were much better. Glad you liked the video. 👍
Thank you Mark. This certainly refreshed my memory of all the controversy surrounding this smaller car and its relatively underdeveloped engines. Good summary. Cheers from NZ.
@@michaelguerin56 Thanks. Glad you liked it 👍
I bought a brand new Commodore Sports Pack in 1979. I can't say that I liked it all that much. While it went well and handled very well, it always felt flimsy to me. I had it for less than a year when I traded it for a V8 HQ Premier. A car that I was much happier with!
@@stephenvelden295 Yes, I wouldn’t mind a V8 Premier. Obviously handling differences aside but what a nice ride! 👍
In 2004 I was doing an MBA at U Tas. I bought a first generation VB with a small in line 6 GMC (I think?) engine standard shift. . It was a champion and had some mods, notable mag wheels which were a tad out board, I ran it for about 6 months with the only issue being the wiper motor which I replaced at a wreckers (Manions) near Lonnie. I paid $1900 AUS and sold it to a student for $2200. Great little car. They would sell today in the ridiculous market these times. Just a gem of a car! Easily one of the best cars I ever drove.
@@sgtcrab2569 Good to hear. 👍
My first car was a pre-loved 3.3 manual VB with alloy wheels. It seemed cool at the time, but looking back it was a bucket of bolts. It handled well, but the engine - heavy on fuel - and gutless to boot was the weak link in the design.
Yes, as I mentioned in the episode, the engines let them down. I would go the dual exhaust 5 litre. 👍
The dumbest move by Holden they had the HX and Torana then spent 110 million dollars to develop a European chassis for Australian conditions (ie crap roads) I actually heard they gave up and basically used a HQ chassis? Only saved 100-200 kgs in weight best I can tell. Then wait for it with no money left, put the pollution controlled red motor into it, 14mpg 3.3 litre. They also did not even plan a station wagon, ute, panelvan, one tonner or statesman body FFS. So had to keep the HX WB series going anyway! They should have just put the Torana on a diet and spent the dollars on a new or updated 6 and V8 engine.
Viewers should also watch your excellent video on the XD falcon to compare what Ford did .
What was Holdens marking people thinking. Have you ever tried to put 3 large Australian men across the back seat of a VB commodore! Great video👍
There was actually a really cool Torana based car considered called The Green Lizard. I may do an ep on that one day. 👍
I have very happy memories of my VB Commodore, owned it for 4 years and hardly spent any money on it. I paid $990 for a reconditioned motor after buying the car for $1500, other than tuneups and a change of tyres and brake pads all it took was a replacement universal joint and steering box. Drove it 90000 km across 4 states and only needed to get it towed once when it lost a welch plug. It never failed to start when I turned the key, unlike a couple of Toranas I had before that.
@@fruitopia6798 You can’t ask for more than that 👍
I used to have a vb commodore with 253 v8 manual 4spd.
In rattle can matt black....
Man i miss that car.
I had to get rid of it because of the resonance of the upgraded exhaust at highway speeds was painfully loud and i had my young family at the time.
But yeah very reliable car/engine.
@@McRcFly Would have been a nice car to fix up now. 👍
@@markbehr88 so many cars I bought for cheap when was young I wish I still had... 😫
Hg premier 253 v8
Chrysler centura
Uc Torana
Corolla ke11 (first car)
Toyota fj40
Try and buy any of them now...
Crazy.
Hindsight 20/20
@@McRcFly Yep 🤔👍
@markbehr88 only 46yrs young btw..🤣
I never spent more that 2k on any of those cars to buy them.
I did alot of work to them though and always sold at a "profit"...
The fun was in the experience in working on them and the satisfaction..
And I never wanted to sell any of them but had to at the time..
I guess we all have those stories..
@@McRcFly Yes, time flies! 🫣
In 1981 when I lost my beloved A9X to a truck taking it out, I purchased a VC SLE with the turbo 400 and 308V8, this was an awesome car and a chick magnet with the rumble dual exhaust. I later traded it in for a Ford XE ESP 5.8. I loved that car too.
Wow, you had some really good cars 👍
Few cars reminded you quite so successfully that you purchased the el cheapo version with those blanking plate switches right up there in your line of vision every time you drove it.
@@Luke-PlanesTrainsDogsnCars Yes. I noticed that too. 🤔👍
I'm going to go in deep here , my observation with the old manual 3 speed 6 cylinder Holdens, is that they seemed like there should have been a fourth gear to change into , because they were revving too hard at highway speed, but I realized that revving hard was how they made power , short stroke , not enough cubic inches, and little in the way of torque. The opposite of long stroke Valiant engines with abundant torque. 😮
@@barrycuda3769 Yes. I think you are right there. 👍
@@markbehr88 Thank you , I felt a bit nervous expressing myself so freely about the beloved Australian icon.
@@barrycuda3769 Always a safe place on this channel. 👍
@@markbehr88 Your'e such a comfort.👍❤
@@barrycuda3769 👍👍
My first car was a VB Commodore. It was that pastel green colour. I loved that car, it was a 3.3 litre 303 (?) motor from memory. Mine built October 1979. It served me well from 1985 to 1998. The dashboard cracked to hell and back is what I recall.
@@Melbournelost66 Yes that would have been a 202 👍
@@markbehr88 I thought it might
@@Melbournelost66 👍
I was at Sydney Showground when the '79 Repco Rally came thru. They were over 3/4 the way around and most cars were mobile wrecks, especially the Cortinas. The Commodores were still motoring along. The VB I thought was pretty advanced for the time, but was let down a bit on the engine, still suffering from the ADR27A emissions regs. This was rectified a lot with the introduction of the "blue" motors from the VC onwards.
@@thunderbird1454 Yes. You are right. The level of preparation and support of the Repco cars was far better than the other teams. A bit like what Lincoln did in the Carrera Pan American races. 👍
And yet Volvo came fourth behind the Holdens with next to no assistance like Holden received. And similar power against the 6cyl Commodore. Interesting things that get forgotten.
@@Low760 I agree. It was also a reliability trial for the fleet on HZ panel vans that followed them around the country. Yes, Holden threw a bucket load of money at it and what better publicity could you get for the newly released Commodores. I also have the very large publicity posters they released to the dealers after the win.
Those 1, 2, 3 Commodores were exceptionally well prepared. As body shells hand picked and reinforced, then the rest of the car hand built, it would have been disappointing to see them not make it.
Those Volvos are literally built like tanks and I mean that in a good way. 👍
Never knew they use the T400 in the commodore. My pop had a 4.2 vb as a company car when they were released, it was fancy.
Yes, optional in the dual exhaust 5 litre engine SL/E. 👍
@@markbehr88 There is good reason that the Trimatic was called the "Traumatic" in the trade.
One of my TAFE teachers worked at Holden when the traumatic was being introduced. No test rigs or computers the test regime was to floor the accelerator and cycle the selector between drive and reverse. With the lacklustre performance of the six cylinder models the Traumatic passed the tests. It failed with every V8 however and was still unleashed on an unsuspecting public. The 253 engines made hardly any more power than the asthmatic sixes but burned more fuel.
@@nkelly.9 And sounded better. 😀👍
@@markbehr88 An acquired taste!
I think I read the Trimatic ironed out a lot of the problems with their weakness later in their run.
Which is why I'd avoid an HG with it.
Still, WB Statesman and Caprice owners must have felt cheated after Holden switched from GM's Torqueflite the TH400 to GM's Borg Warner 35, the Trimatic.
I like how you mentioned the Commodore body structure wasent up to scratch. I remember when I was younger and Commodores were everywhere on our roads, alot of Commodores were splitting in half- Literally-! In heavy impacts such as T-bone, head on or hit a telegraph pole, they would split in half at the B pillar. Terrifying to see it on the news many times!!
@@steveskrobot9496 Yes they did have to add additional strengthening as production rolled on. 👍
Have you seen the crash test video for that car ??
Absolutely horrific.
You would die in a head on collision 1000%
@@tonymontana897 Have you got a link to it? It would have had to meet the standards of the day. 👍
@@markbehr88 th-cam.com/video/W3g0tbgcxQ8/w-d-xo.html
The whole family would be sent into the afterlife. Shocking stuff.
🫣
My mate’s mum’s commodore had that “slug” engine in it, it took from Corio to Lara to get up to 100kph.
Yes, it was not good was it? 🫣
@@markbehr88 no speeding fines heaven 🙏
@@Eric-kn4yn Yes but the cost is high in terms of enjoyment 🤔👍
A VC SL came up for sale on the GC for $7500 about 10 years ago when I was looking around for a toy. It had 36,000 on the clock and I wish I bought it. But I was really after a SL/E 5.0. 12 months later the prices went through the roof and an SL/E never came up at a reasonable price. Missed the boat sadly and had to settle for a 1977 450SEL but sold that after 2 years as I felt too embarrassed to drive it as I felt like a dictator.
@@2DogsVlogs Hmmm I would prefer the Mercedes just quietly. 👍
Still a strikingly elegant car that faded with each new model until the VR arrived.
I don't know about the VB but the VC blue 3.3 sounded a lot different to the Kingswood's red 3.3s. Perhaps it was due to reworking and revised exhaust.
@@jamesfrench7299 It will be an interesting journey to plot the Commodore’s various iterations. I hope you’ll all join me. 👍
@@markbehr88 Oh yes, I won't miss an episode. I got only part way through your FGX episode as I want to save it for later.
@@jamesfrench7299 Thanks for watching them. 👍
In 2001 a mate of mine had one. He parked it out the front of our house one night and when he went to leave noticed it was missing. Obviously he called the police they reported and took his details, he was concerned about what he would get for insurance and the constable replied “maybe enough for a carton of vb”
@@byronmitchell2067 Ha. Nice one. 👍
Thoroughly enjoyed this one mark and you are a thorough gentleman.
Love all your productions.
I grew up in the era of these cars and back then you could see the difference between a kingswood and a falcon or a valiant unlike today.
I had a HZ Kingswood 253 as a first car and years later a VH vacationer sedan with 253.
They may not have produced much kw power but still has decent torque. I can remember they would push you back in your seat when putting your foot down.
But as you say they were a lot lighter back then unlike the ridiculous heavy weight of cars today.
Thanks heaps for sharing 👍
@@neilstleon6251 Thanks very much. Very kind of you. Those 4.2 V8’s of yours would have been very nice cars to drive, I am sure. 👍
Very good video and great great research/ information. I remember Car Magazine included the top Holden Commodore in a test against the usual European sports saloons, BMW M5, Merc Cosworth, etc, in 1987 group test. This was interesting to me as my dad and other family members owned many big Opels over the years and I knew of the connection.
The Senator/ Monza were great cars and could trade punches with anything in their respective class. GM should have offered you guys Euro spec. versions with the 3.0 CIH.
I think Peter Brock had a Monza with a V8 fitted.
Thanks very much. Yes, the SL/E accounted for itself well compared to the Euro cars, especially for the price. Brock did import a Monza and fitted an HDT V8 to it. What a shame it did not go into production. When I was at Holden, one of my dealers, Paul Wakeling, had that very car for sale in his showroom. I thought it looked terrific. 👍
I had a 5.0 4 speed 25/65 cam wagon Peter Brock pipe + port matched intake 34 mpg highway loved it regards wes
@@appteam-tn9vt Nice one 👍
First car I ever drove. Church people in the carpark. A stick! Nice car. Gmh worker in SA.
Still a handsome car .
Agree. It has aged well. 👍
Thanks Mark. Just subscribed. Looking forward to your Holden series. I love my Holdens and have had a few. Currently Im lucky enough to have a 1994 vr a 1997 vs a 2001 vx and a 1979 HZ one Tonner. My daily is a VE commodore. Holdens are cool. From a Kiwi fan. Also my son drives a VE berlina and loves it. All my commys are berlinas Too.
@@darrylcampbell4411 Excellent and thanks for subscribing! When I was Holden NZ Sales Manager we were selling the VR and VS models and when I returned to Australia in Product Planning, was responsible for the VX. There is a VX SS ep on the channel that may interest you plus a review on a friend’s VE. 👍
@@markbehr88 Thanks Mark. Ill look them up.
@@darrylcampbell4411 👍
Good video mate , I must confess I was never an early commodore fan , I always preferred the earlier dare I say it , proper Aussie big sedans hj/hx/hz models , I didn't mind the Toranas either , gtr/xu1 right through to the end .
My old man had a base model HQ one tonner 253 , three on the tree with no power steering , the commercial grille and bumper and commercial wheels and tyres , it had the heaviest steering I'd ever experienced in a motor car ..... It was horrible 😊, a reliable old bus though😊.
The VE series commy I'll be honest I didn't think much of them until one day I was travelling down a mountain through a series of heavy winding curves , the commie was a VE high end model like a statesman equivalent with the V8 , and I was trying to pace him , and he drove away like out of sight easily with road holding and grip levels that blew me away.
Holden really had those things dialled in .
I look forward to your next one Mark.
@@mikldude9376 Thanks very much. I will do an Early Series Holden and a Kingswood series too. Plenty of material. 👍
Hi Mark, a car that looks familiar to me as the Vauxhall Viceroy this car was identical to the Holden Commodore VB. The Viceroy was the front end of the Vauxhall Royale ( Opel Senator ) and the rear end of the Vauxhall Carlton ( Opel Record ) The Viceroy was fitted with a straight six 2.5 litre engine. The Carlton was fitted with a four cylinder 1.8 ,2.0 and 2.3 The Royale was fitted with 2.5 and 3.0 six cylinder engines unfortunately no V8.
The Vauxhall range of these cars came out in 1978 about the same time as the Commodore. I think the body panels came from Germany and assembled at the Vauxhall plant in Luton in UK. good story on the VB Commodore as always a great video Take care
@@shaun30-3-mg9zs Thanks Shaun. I saw the Viceroy as part of my research. Personally I liked theSenator the best out of the UK/Euro variants but would take a 5 litre V8 SL/E over them. 👍
@@markbehr88 Hi Mark That was the missing link, not having a V8 the biggest engine was the 3.0 six cylinder
@@shaun30-3-mg9zs I guess the 3 litre would have gone ok though?
If my memory is correct the VB model was my second car I owned. Traded my Valiant Charger for it. The VB was dark blue with fawn interior. I swapped the SL badges for SLE badges 😂 It was initially a very nice car but it deteriorated a fair bit while I had it. Ultimately it got T boned by a bus that went through a stop sign 😢
Getting T boned by a Bus is no fun 🫣
You traded a Charger for VB Commodore!?!?
@ He did. 👍
Thanks Mark. The other Achilles heel with the VB was the manufacturing/build quality. My then father-in-law had a new SLE 4.2, a very nice car I thought. He effectively had it mechanically rebuilt over a relatively short ownership period. Pride in ownership dissipated, and his next car was the Honda Prelude 4-wheel steer. Buying a Honda was a struggle for him, as he had been shot at by the Japanese in WW2. However, the need for reliability and the then Honda success in Formula 1 won him over. It too was a very nice car, with great build quality and reliability.
@@nhilltiger Yes, those Hondas were very nicely made. Not necessarily overly rugged but for their intended purpose very nicely built and engineered. 👍
I bought one brand new traded my xc v8 Falcon PV ...bought a 2.8 manual ... took it out for a top speed spin ....162 kph .... amazing!! THEN i top spec tuning friend of mine said Bring it to my shop !!!! ...Cleaned 1/2 inch od silt ..yes. silt from the carby...drilled out the main jet ...replaced the non working vacuum advance on the dizzy...fitted a Davies craig thermo fan ...took it out for a top speed run ...190 kph .!!! All mods cost $150 back them ...the VB was a great car for its time 😊
@@michaelgill5186 You guys could have offered that as a Performance Pack. 👍
Good informative video. Well researched.
How much did Holden Straya have to spend shoehorning the longer senator front end on to the Rekord to fit the 6 cylinder?
Rumor has it that GM rooly shafted the Strayin manufacture by not giving them the Senator from the start to work with.
So much so, that there was no money left to offer an actual engine, so Holden had to offer them to market with the 1915 designed push rod asthma inflicted Chevy 6 cylinder gas hog.
@@MrWilliam.Stewart Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. 👍
1993 and my P plate mate bought a VB 4.2 manual commo as his first car from Parramatta Rd. Metallic green, pin strips. Sounded good. I had a hotted up 1275cc mini. Wasn't much in it performance wise. Great times
@@michaelhart5886 Would have been a cool cruiser. 👍
@markbehr88 as a P plater we thought we were it
@@michaelhart5886 I can imagine. 👍😀
Very interesting
@@petermurgatroyd2002 Cheers 👍
Thank you Mark. This was really good! I liked the information and footage. I see they used the Sunbird name at Holden. I am sure you know it was a Pontiac nameplate in the United States. GM was doing global cars back then it seems. I like the images and footage of the Holden version, the Opel and Vauxhall version and the GM South Africa Cheverolet version. Global car indeed. Some of those proposals looked better than the production model. The car was the right size for Australia. It was a big change for Holden with a aging lineup. I am shocked how small it was. Ford was winning buyers with the Falcon.That segment was highly competitive. The SLE I asume was equal to a future Calais. I enjoyed the episode and learning about so much.
@@OLDS98 Thanks very much Olds98. Glad you liked it. I will be covering all of the Commodores as we go forward, as well as the Ford Fairlane and Chrysler Valiant plus many more. 👍
@@markbehr88 I will be watching and I look forward to it as well. You have a vast knowledge and it is appreciated., This is getting interesting indeed,
@@OLDS98 Thanks very much. 👍
Loving these series Mark. Thanks for that.
I also noticed your input on Peter Anderson's live feed the other night.
Love Peter's channel too. Fantastic bloke. So are you Mark.
Cheers buddy.
@@tonymontana897 Thanks very much. Glad you are enjoying the content. Yes, I really like Peter’s content too and he seems like a great guy. 👍
Also. Very excited for this series, even as a Ford man. These vids are so good.
@@byronmitchell2067 Thanks. I always try to include relevant Ford, Holden, Chrysler information re competition so it gives context and appeals to more people. 👍
🥝✔️ Another land mark summary, Mark.Nice work..
@@deanstevenson6527 Thank you👍
So many memories! Firstly, I remember seeing a VB commodore split in half after a side impact when it pulled out in front of a Ford Bronco! My mum had a 4.2L manual VC. Dad put heads, cam and exhaust on it, but was never happy with performance...and Mum hated the lumpy idle. Also remember there was only 8 different key styles for the VB making it a breeze to steal!
Interesting re the keys. Sheeeez!
I'm going to love this! Cheers Mark
@@danozism Glad to hear it. 👍👍
Old man had a VB wagon with exhaust and extractors, used to scare the poop out of me if I was near it on start up/idle hahaha
@@Benjames885 I can imagine. 😂
The Commodore C was first shown in late 1977, at the same time as the Rekord E.
It was the Opel Commodore and Vauxhall Viceroy that formed the basis for the first Holden Commodore in Australia, and was sold in South Africa as the Chevrolet Commodore until 1982, when it was rebadged as an Opel. The South African Commodore was introduced in July 1978, at the same time as the Rekord E went on sale there.[12] These originally had Chevrolet engines, pushrod inline-sixes of 3.8 or 4.1 liters.[13] Sold as a standard or a GL (with the 4.1 only available as a sedan with automatic transmission), the South African version replaced the earlier Chevrolet 3800 and 4100, also based on the Commodore.
@@retrotom5346 Thanks for the additional information. 👍
Enjoy your videos Mark. Keep 'em coming.
I was working for Bill Patterson Holden in Pre Delivery when the VB was released. We got the cars two weeks before release and test dove them around Ringwood. Used to get a lot of puzzled looks from people trying to work out what sort of car it was. The build quality was a bit rough around the edges. You could drive 4 cars, all the same model and they felt completely different , from gutless and noisy, to smooth and fast . It paid to road test the car you were going to buy first. Personally would have bought a HZ Premier 308 with all the fruit over a Commodore SL/E. Holden really didn't get the build quality up to scratch until the VT. Holdens I have owned were FE Special Sedan, FB Special Sedan, HD Special Sedan, LH Torana Plus 4, UC Torana SL with Luxury Pack and 4 wheel discs, HX Kingswood Sedan and a VN Toyota Lexcen. Current car is a Ford BF2 XR6 .
@@volvor730 Thanks very much. Shame the quality was so hit and miss. I’ll be doing an Early Holden series and a Kingswood one too plus many more. 👍
I have a '79 base model wagon with a few optional extras, green with tan interior, 3.3 litre (has been replaced with what I think is a HQ 3.3, so sadly not matching numbers), 4 speed, 3.36 ratio diff, variable intermittent wipers, passenger side seat and originally had the windscreen sunshade, but has since been removed. My grandfather reportedly ordered it ahead of release when having an early retirement. He had a HR Special wagon with a 186S before then (I think it was red and white two tone) which he also bought new.
My opinion is that the VB looks better than the VC, but the VC is objectively better handling in the real world. My favourite first gen will always be the VK (though maybe not with the then nearly 40 year old 6 cylinder)
@@MuscleCarLover Very cool. The HR wagon would be a nice one to have now too. 👍
@@markbehr88 Yeah, that was given to a family friend when the VB got delivered
@@MuscleCarLover 😀👍
Great video. I love the history of local Australian cars.
Is there any chance of doing a full history on the Holden Statesman series cars? My late father bought a brand new HX Caprice in blue with a beige vinyl roof. Those were gorgeous cars.
Thanks very much. I will be doing a Statesman and Caprice series down the track. 👍
Excellent upload Mark! The SL/E would have been a nice machine to have back in 1978!
@@Luke-er6pg Thanks. Yes that was the pic of them. 👍
Missed the special Starfire 4!!!😂😂😂
VC? 🤔
@@markbehr88 In NZ there were Starfire 4''s from VB to VK and I believe most were manual gearboxes.
Equally in the Vauxhall/Opel's of the late 80's early 90's were 4 cylinder Family 2 1.8 or 2.0 powered just like as available in the later VN.
If only Holden had used the 6 cylinder Qpel CIH engine...
@@paulhoogeveen7353 Yes, I am only really covering the Australian spec cars. Agree they should have considered other engines but it would have been a cost factor. 👍
We had 3 of them, they were good cars, good driving cars in the market at that time.
@@GarryCharlesworth 👍
Good vid mate. I remember when these come out. GMs as usual spent a fortune in marketing trying to convince everybody these were a new generation. They were just Kingswoods with a different body. GMs chuck a few bells and whistles like the headlight washer/wipers (WTF).
I can’t remember exactly which one but one of the early Commodore models had an economy gauge which worked on engine vacuum.
@@davidhayter8516 Yes the VB base cars had the econo gauge. 👍
The first Commodores definitely handled a lot better than the old HQ-HZ cars.
@@murrayknight1672 Yes, although the HZ was a very good handler. 👍
@@markbehr88 motor mag said HZ great handler spoiled by the car.
I think they did a good job considering the age of the platform. They should have spent more on the engine and leveraged it for the Commodore as well. 👍
Lol 87kw from a 4.2 V8!, by comparison for example a 2024 Toyota Corolla Ascent has 126kw from a 2.0 engine and is quite a bit lighter, seems like technology has come a long way since then. I think you could also get the VB with a 4 cylinder Sunbird engine as well?
@@Jasper9000-wd5sm VC had the four cylinder unless you were in NZ. 👍
It was at this point that I stopped liking Holdens. I could not understand how they went from Kingswood to Commodore.
It was at this point that I started liking Holdens! Holden finally made cars that handled and drove well 😉.
The win (and first and third) by Brock and Holden in the 1979 Repco Round Australia Trial was truly monumental and as an 18yo at the time had a huge impact on me. (Yes, many years later I also ended up rallying a Commodore).
While I prefer the larger Kingswood type cars, enough time has passed to make these interesting I reckon. See what you think? 👍
@@couttsy222Agree. That Repco win was epic. 👍
@@markbehr88 -- It's all part of the Holden story....... (from a nominally Ford man)
@@couttsy222 Yes, for sure. 👍
The Commodores with the old red motor had the steering rack in the less than optimum position because the red motor sump got in the way of the position for correct alignment, hit a bump and the wheel did not rise straight but, from mermory kicked out a bit, this problem was rectified when the Nissan 6 was fitted which had the sump pan in a better position.
@@adoreslaurel Very interesting 👍
When we saw the vb come out we felt that was the end for Holden. We had grown up with the H series and this European styling and its size felt like it wasn’t an Aussie car anymore. Much preferred the XD falcon when they ditched their X series as well. The cops must have thought so too because all the RTA cars were 351 XDs. Never liked the commodores, until my son bought his first VE, they got that one right.
I thought the XD was a great looking car. I think from VN Holden got back into the large car game. 👍
I have been hanging out for the history of the Commodore.Thanks mate!!!
Hope you enjoy it. 👍
Great video I remember the 4.2 sle you drove .l must be a Holden man as soon as I saw this video had to watch it Love the red on red SLE s keep up the good work thanks Mark
@@GerardDaly-y1n Thanks Gerard. I knew you always liked the Holdens - so there will be plenty more episodes. 👍
great vids
@@mickhofman Thank you 👍
Great vid as always. There seems to be a lot of styling cues of the VL on the v-body 7x concept.
@@Aaajjjjjjjjj Thanks Yes, I thought the same thing re VL. 👍
During the very early '80s, Dad's company had bought one Opel Commodore carburated 2,5 Litre IL6, m/t. In 1986 the Opel Commodore has been replaced to a then brand new Opel Omega A series 2.0 Litre IL4, m/t.
I think (aside from our V8’s) your engines were better than ours. 👍
@@markbehr88 since 1978 Opel ditched the V8 on the Old Continent. Rekord had only IL4 petrol and diesel. Short lived Commodore had only IL6 2.5 Lit. Senator-A had IL4 both petrol and diesel as well as IL6 engines. Monza had only IL6. But by our terms these were huge cars, especially the IL6. So smaller 4 cyl. models ruled the market. Rekord was best seller. Commodore and Senator-A was less popular in the huge car category. Higher taxation.
@@szilardtoth8814 Yes, I will probably do some episodes down the track on the V8 powered Opel based cars as they were very interesting and had some similar styling cues to our Holden HD. 👍
Very enjoyable video. As far as engine output is concerned, it's worth keeping in mind somewhere in the 70's they changed from Gross BHP to Net BHP. I think with Net they had to measure it with all the ancillaries connected but I don't know the exact details. Also I believe in '76 ADR27a Vehicle emissions standard kicked in, a bit like what happened in the USA early in the 70's where BHP dropped to ridiculously low levels on Giant V8's. I guess the saving grace for V8's was good Torque compared to 6's. I think Holden relied a bit on blind faith from the Australian public and without that maybe they might have put some effort into increasing output and economy with the engines. Of course that blind faith evaporated real quick when they killed off Local production and they were gone shortly after.
@@Imperious685 Yes. That’s right. Net power versus Gross. But still very underpowered. 👍
Gosh, at least you guys had 6 cylinder options, I'm sure our base options were 4 cylinder here in nz. Maybe that was later on? We had a 1985 Royale, which was a 4 cylinder.
@@Ian1964 We had the four from VC. 👍
Fantastic video Mark, keep em coming!
Thanks very much 👍
Really loving your channel, mate. So much info to look back on, and even learn a few things I didn't know.
You touched briefly on the Magna. Awesome car. Can you do a Chrysler/Mitsubishi series on the Sigma thru to 380?
Keep up the great work!
Thanks very much. I will likely do those cars. Next episode will be Part 1 in the Valiant series. The R model. 👍
The only problem with the VB &vc was the over heating in traffic with the AC would over heating to over the problem put 4cylider thermostat and over come the problem
@@PaulHayman-tq5kb Interesting. I have not heard that before. 🤔👍
Funny that you showed the CH Chrysler Hardtop when saying you could buy some very nice cars cheap then. A mate bought precisely one of those for $1500, and used it as his carpentry work 'ute' in '82. Try buying one now 🤣
I know. Wish I had bought one then too. Thought it was a cool image and any excuse to put it in there. 👍
@@markbehr88 should have brought 2 or 3.
@@Eric-kn4yn Yes. 👍
I had a 3.3l Wagon and I thought she went really well. Might have had after market exhaust though!
@@1BIGFROGGY That would have helped. 👍
Good information Mark, very interesting
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
He- i can remember my Pop having to have his VB floor pan welded a nber of times (where the seats bolt down to). Same thing again when he bought a VH- had to have the floor pan welded.
He traded it in for a 5.8lt auto XD sedan, that car is still in our family (my uncle has done a semi restore on it)
@@maxrockatanksyOG Yes. I have heard that. The XD would be terrific. Check out my XD episode on the Falcon History playlist. 👍
Yep and a decent sized trailer and a bumpy road could bend the boot floor.
@@chrisgregory4796 True 🫣
G'day Mark. Another awesome car story. I've heard of the Holden VB Commodore. 🙂
Thanks very much. Glad you liked it. Next episode will be R Series Valiant. 👍
I owned a VC Commodore and it had the larger 6 cylinder engine and l bought the Commodore second hand a couple of years old it had a few options like air conditioning power steering cloth seats height adjustable drivers seat and was metallic blue with blue interior it was a good car changed the engine on it because the main crankshaft seal went from memory it was pretty cheap
@@lesklower7281 I’ll do the VC next Commodore episode. 👍
@@markbehr88 l will be look for ward to that
@@lesklower7281 Cheers 👍
You've gone over to the Dark Side Mark.......
@@nkelly.9 I’ve heard that when I left Holden to go to Ford’s advertising agency. Then they said it to me when I went to HSV. Then they said it to me when I went to FPV. Maybe that’s why I’ve always liked Darth Vader? 😀👍
@@markbehr88 I will wait for the Chrysler chapters, they were the outstanding cars....
@@nkelly.9 Yes, the R series Episode 1 should be released in a week or so. The Commodore ones will reference Ford and Chrysler where relevant. 👍
@@markbehr88 Oh wow!
I can't wait!
Love them. Slant six, tuff as, Torqueflite, best three speed auto that has ever been made.
Handle tons of power.
I have a 1990 330HP Aston Martin in my shop with a Torqueflite from factory, although not with pushbutton controls.
All the automatic Astons used them up to mid 90's then they used a four speed Torqueflite.
Jensen Interceptor also used Torqueflite.
Used for over three decades and hardly improved upon.
Thanks so much for your efforts Mark, you are a bloody champion! (apart from this low rent holden stuff......) ;)
Ha. Thanks. Yes, the early Valiants were terrific cars. I am looking forward to covering them. 👍
Full-size car done (almost) right (IMO). Much better than GM B-body, just a bit smaller than expected.
@@runoflife87 I just wish they made that wide body version. 🤔👍
@@markbehr88 might get more sales for sure.
@@runoflife87 Definitely. 👍
Only Holden I ever owned! A 1979 VB SL with the red engine to replace a dead Corolla. Very green car, sick green vinyl interior, dodgy handling, dead steering & awful braking. It did look ok & I believe the 71kW. Higher grades were nicer inside. I hope the V8s got suspension & brake upgrades! _Why so late on a Tuesday night Mark?_
@@UncleJoeLITE It wasn’t too late when I launched it. Thought I’d continue the roll after breaking 5000 Subscribers and the success of the Japanese Chryslers. 👍
@@markbehr88 Then well done!!!
Thanks. Next episode will be R Series Valiant. 👍
3 things:
Golden Fleece ... whoa I remember those service stations, once you were past Katoomba on the GWH (heading to central west NSW) it was "Golden Fleece" all the way (also Mobile) from memory Golden fleece were incorporated into the CA:LTEX service station fleet and now owned by AMPOL.
Even though I'm a Ford fan I do quite like the GMH implementation of GM Opel designed instrument panel and gauges right up to VH, the VK were dead set awful and the VL were trying too hard to be "80's computer techy".
You forgot to mention the GM Daewoo "Royale" which is the sister "V" car for south Korean market, has HMH Commodore front end wit GM Opel Senator rear end.
That mock up (at 7:29) looks very similar t the VL Commodore front end and side guard profile, I've never seen that pic before and assume its from mid 70's? which suggest to me that even back then GMH had issues with the "VB" design but took 10 years to get it right for he VL Commodore wit the bi-focus lights.
As always great work Mark.
@@351tgv Thanks very much. I remember Golden Fleece service stations, especially the small rural ones where, at dusk you would see the illuminated Merinos on top of the bowsers. 👍
It seems like it was supposed to be two sizes thus being a better replacement for the Torona and Kingswood
@@danieltynan5301 They definitely should have made the larger size. 👍
Holden Sunbirds were produced until 1979 so also would have been in competition with the Commodore
Yes, Holden was hedging its bets. 👍
Of the four generations of Commodores, it definitely went from the worst to the best over the years!
They did improve with age but there are some really nice ones along the way. Think Shadow tone VH SL/E. 👍
Yep, the shadow tone was a good-looking car for the day, as it was mentioned in the doco, it would have been a better car if it was wider, but carrying over the engines from the kingswood era just made it a new car with old school engines.
Yes, it they had the money to widen the car plus do the engines, they would have been real world beaters. 👍
I never had VB , but had a VC 4 cylinder, and despite the 4 cylinder having a bad name , it served me well, the only thing that went wrong was a broken alternator bracket. Later on I had a VH that was originally a 4 cylinder, but was fitted with a lumpy cammed 173 ,which was pretty good and had decent power , but the gearbox wore out pretty fast. And I had a VL 2.0 litre which ran smooth, but really didn't have enough power , and developed a computer problem that nobody seemed to be able to fix . And I had an immaculate VK Berlina with the 3.3 fuel injected motor , it was pretty fast, but when required to tow a boat it damn near heamorraged on hills , no torque to speak of , and very thirsty, my good old 245 Valiant would hardly have noticed that load. I'm sure the V8 models would have been a lot more pleasing, I loved the early racing Commodore's , especially the group C's. And I would very happily own a VL Walkinshaw. But generally, not too impressed with the 6 cyl Commodore's , until the Buick v6 models, Iv'e owned a 200,000 km VX for about three years now , and I really couldn't be more impressed, it's just a great car , the American running gear made a big difference. IMO.
holden called it the "Starfire" engine, in the trade it was known as the "Missfire" engine.
Woeful.
@@barrycuda3769 Wow. You’ve had a lot of Commodores for sure. VX. I worked on that model when I was in Product Planning. 👍
@@nkelly.9 Yes , I had heard of the " missfire " name , but strangely it was my favorite of my early Commodore's.
@@nkelly.9 Yes, it did not have a good reputation at all. 🫣
@@markbehr88 Deserved reputation.
Gutless, thirsty, rough.
They ran it in the Toyota Corona too, IIRC.
Hi Mark. Did the VB not come out with the 1900cc Starfire (misfire) engine for the NZ market? Looking forward to this series.
Not in Australia. Possibly in NZ as there are unusual spec cars like small V6 VN Calais etc that have been sold there. 👍
Saw my first one up close in western Qld. Wealthy lady had an Sle. Except the red interior was completely white. With dust. Absolutely no dust sealing for dirt roads. I couldn't believe this plush limousine was a dusty shtbox.
Really, that’s unusual for a Holden but maybe reflective of the fact it was an Opel based car?
Forgot to say thanks again Mark for preserving the history. @@markbehr88
Thanks very much. I appreciate it. Great to see the channel grow too with Subscribers. There is a lot of love for our Aussie cars. Next episode will be the R series Valiant as part of a full Chrysler Valiant series. 👍
It must have been the year when Carlton and United Breweries sponsored VB... Commodore. 😂😂😂😂
@@jimpikoulis6726 Could be 😀👍
@@markbehr88 They had the VB, then the VC, but somehow the VD Commodore never made it in to production......
@@nkelly.9 I think people were worried it would not appeal to the public 😀👍
Valiant also went straight from VC to VE also.
We had HDT Holden Dealer Team but Vauxhall in the UK rearranged their Vauxhall Dealer Team.
In 1987, i replaced my HG Kingswood 186 manual sedan with a VB Commodore 202 auto sedan. I had it three years. It was ok in terms of getting you from A to B, but had a list of issues that left me a little peeved: a motor that ran on after you turned off the key, an interior that fell to bits around me, a windscreen demister so weak, i needed a rag on wet and humid days, the Trimatic ran very rough unless you constantly topped up the oil level and a useless air-conditioner that didn't heat or cool the car. The am only radio was very stingy by 1978. Holden should have offered better by then, a cassette unit or at least fm function as well.
If i could have my time over, I'd replace the HG with a Torana, not a Commodore. They were generally better built.
@@noelgibson5956 Fair enough. That was your real world experience. I think the V8 cars in the higher spec were the ones to own? 👍
Had a green VB with the green interior,then had a burgundy VH with the brown interior then blue VK with the blue interior then went to vs with grey then to vectra Bach to wh2 carprice x2 then to Wm caprice and Finally after 30 years of photographing commodore I have a 6.2lt Calais v with light Titanium interior 💔💔💔🫶🫡😭😭😭I miss Holden
@@bobdown6055 At least you’ve had some great examples over the years, but I get how you feel. 👍
@@markbehr88 yea I’ve have forgot the two ts Sri’s 2.2lt and a turbo that I still have with only 80,000km and a LX8 good work but this is going to be a hard series for me my eyes watered just seeing the Lang Lang background in photos(crash lab) anyway thanks for the memory’s
@@bobdown6055 Yes, I worked for Holden for 9 years and HSV for 2 - so I know how you feel. 👍
My spies (at the time) told me that a Japanese manufacturer had offered a 4 cyl engine that had way more power than the old 202. Yet Holden went to that stupid Starfire.
@@royferntorp I am sure that is right. It would have been $. 👍
Holden misfire engine. What a dog
@@michaelhart5886 Was not their finest hour. 🤔
The Mitsubishi 2.6 litre was fitted at one point, with a 5 spd box it would have been an absolute winner at the time.
But I guess, cost and local content may have been an issue.
I know it's slightly off-topic, but I went to the trade release of the Sunbird, held in the Maribyrnong area. GMH unwisely provided various competitors' cars so that we could benchmark the Sunbird; must have seemed like a good idea at the time...The consensus was that the Starfire engine was useless and that it would maybe make a decent boat anchor. All the competitor cars were better than the Sunbird.
Didn't know we got the headlight wipers?
@@super_slav91 Yes. I quite liked those. 👍
@@markbehr88 bling head light wipers.
Fancy hey! 😀👍
@@Eric-kn4yn Too bad we didnt get the opel motors, 3L CIH engine 110kW in 77, Stupid decision. 132kw and 240nm in EFI models.
The Repco reliability trials really didn't display their real reliability, as the team changed out major driveline and suspension components before they had a chance to fail! The engines used were basically an XU1 engine!
Sure, that was probably reflected in many of the competitors. Nothing would have been dead stock. 🤔👍
Speaking of weak body I have some pics here of one that snapped in half after being hit by a Mazda in a low speed collision
That’s a worry! 🫣
@@markbehr88 I heard the story off a mate years ago and I never believed it then about a month ago it popped up on fb group I'm on with the images and the original Canberra Times article on it
@@markbehr88 looking at the pics its later than a vb/vc plastic pumper looks like vk any how the article from the Canberra Times has all he details and pics says the car was only two weeks old I could send it to you if you are iinterested
@@Thepigfromthepot The design was earlier as you can see on the number plate 197X so has to pre-date 1978 as you would not do that for just the following year. 👍
I agree with the interior colours of those times which were colourful unlike today where they seem to have taken a page out of Henry Ford's book where you can have any interior colour you like as long as its black. It's the same with exterior colours where they've taken a page out of the old communist East European countries where you can have any colour you like as a long as it's bleak. I've had no experience in Holden ownership of any Holden as I've only driven a sort of Holden in the Colorado a work provided car which was probably more Isuzu than Holden and no I didn't like it. Although if truth be told as a kid I always like the VB Commodore especially in the SLE for at the time it just looked right.
@@AussiePom Yes, bring back the different coloured interiors. At least Tesla offer a white interior, which I like. 👍
The VB Holden Commodore was a head of their Time had The kiddie back door locks &had crush Bars in the doors The same as mecerdiese
@@PaulHayman-tq5kb The side impact beams in the doors was mandatory in all Australian cars in 1978 and in the US around 1969. 👍
You are Wright
My first car back in 1998
@@petewitt2867 Hopefully it brought back some good memories? 🤔👍
@markbehr88 you forgot to mention how good they were for maccas runs and industrial estate burnouts when fitted with the correct P plates.
@@petewitt2867 Yes but the VN is probably better for that 😀👍
@markbehr88 funny you say that, my parents had a vn wagon. Can confirm it's industrial estate skid credentials
@@petewitt2867 Yes,I remember! 😀
Wouldn’t be too many with T400 transmission
I don’t think I have ever seen one
@@sumpoiler 5 litre dual exhaust SL/E cars.
It was recommended if you planned on doing a lot of heavy towing, the salesman would definitely try to talk you into it
@@Jasper9000-wd5sm And a wise move too. 👍
0:26 you could have gotten a more modern photo of the Holden Pagewood plant!
Is that all you have to say?
@@markbehr88 considering the photos you used for your video, anyone could get them using google images which most are subjected to copyright (unless you have permission which I highly doubt). Had you googled "Holden Pagewood plant" you would have found tons of images of the Holden Pagewood plant over the years. Considering that I used to live 2 blocks away from the actual plant when it was still functioning through to its takeover by British-American Tobacco, there are better images and again most are copyrighted. So yeah mate, I've added more to my comment & next time you do a video, get permission or at least acknowledge the owner(s) of the image.
@@1969Risky You really don’t know what you are talking about. I worked for GM for over 9 years and have made plenty of content so know the obligations. I haven’t looked at your channel’s content yet but I am sure it is excellent based on your critique of mine. I used that image intentionally to highlight how long the Pagewood plant was in operation for. I have actually been in the plant when it was making cars. There is no copyright on that image as it is a press release image for publicity. Anyway, I’ll check your channel out. 👍
Just saw your two videos on the channel. They are Holden Limited Dealer release videos, so no actual produced content from you. Just uploads of Holden owned content.
@@markbehr88 Thank you for that. The DVD it came from was from a Holden dealer from the mid north coast who was going to throw it away. I uploaded it with a disclosure to TH-cam, not for profit but for posterity as you can't find them anymore. I didn't load them on to make money.
Why didn't they use the German Cam in Head Engines? Much more Powerful.Developed by GM.
@@michaelmertin4018 Purely $$$$
@@markbehr88 I think the Problem of cracking was caused by Partly by those old Vibrating Engines.No Problems in South Africa.
@@michaelmertin4018 Maybe we towed a lot more too? 🤔👍
@@markbehr88 Then the Back would get longer....
@@michaelmertin4018 Might turn into a Statesman! 😀
Why was the VB so low on power as these motors in the Kingswood had more power, 64 kilowatts from the 2.8 is dreadful when the sunbird had 60 kilowatts from the Starfire motor which was the 2.8 minus two cylinders.
@@Djr67 You may need to look at whether the Sunbird was quoted as gross or net HP? Either way, they were quite under powered in six cylinder form with that 2.85 engine. 👍
@@markbehr88 186S in monaro had a reasonable punch with 4 speed first time i made 100mph barely (160kph) better than 225 auto VF sedan 160hp badged it isnt like holden didnt know how to make an engine rev out.
Kw differences probably due to emissions.
Although the 2850 only had 6kw more than the Starfire it had around 35nm more torque and was over a second quicker over the quarter mile 20.8 vs mid 19's in the 2850.
@@sr20trx Power demons! 😀👍
Emissions regulations had just come out a couple of years earlier, it really made a huge difference to power and fuel economy, all cars suffered the same problems back then, it wasnt until a decade later until they had fuel injection and electronic ignition and power began to increase from then
Yuk! Love seeing your videos, always learn something and often see stuff I never seen before. Kinda wish I hadn't seen this ugly duck 🦆.!
@@joellamoureux7914 It’s good to learn about new stuff and I find the older these Aussie cars get, the more I want to know. 👍