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Linux desktops are a disaster. Every few years, I try again to engage with the Linux desktop. For the past two days, I've been looking at the latest distributions, and I have to say the development is a disaster. Just turning off the constant password prompts in KDE is already a catastrophe. Polkit, KDE Wallet, all this crap that is now annoying, senseless, and provides a desktop experience that is hellish. Linux will never match the efficiency of Windows. Never, not even in 100 years. I've been in this Linux game since 1996, and it's always the same crap. The developers of the Linux desktop simply do not understand what it’s all about, what an efficient desktop is. It’s all childish. linux desktop users are just little kids, who think they are rebels, or they are cool or somtin when they dont use windows. for serious work linux desktop is useless. for playing around and thinking: i am a big hacker, its ok. but not for serious people. i would never use linux desktop in my company all me efficieny of my employes would go down like hell, and i would lose money. so, no change since 30 years. linux desktop is for amateurs not for pros, who really want make money with serious work
@@schtormm linux desktop is shiat, not reliable. no professional software. no adobe suite, no professional office suite, no good IDE for programming, no good video cut program. there are only few good programs and these are from commercial companys like google and closed source, and gaming is also horrible. thats the proof linux desktop is trash. No matter how hard you try to make the Linux desktop sound appealing, it is not good. Period. What do you think is the reason why most Linux desktop users still have a remote desktop connection to a Windows machine or another system? It's because they cannot get anything done properly with Linux. They always need to access other systems. The only thing the Linux desktop is good for is browsing a bit and opening the terminal. For more complex tasks, it is not stable or reliable enough. Professional users would never use the Linux desktop. Media creation, video editing, professional software development, managing large networks, domain access systems, ADS, such tasks simply cannot be accomplished with Linux desktop. Linux desktop is only suitable for simple and basic tasks that are not business-relevant. If the Linux desktop were better, it would already spread much faster in companies and businesses, where real money is actually made. The reason that the Linux desktop has not been able to establish itself for 40 years is exactly this: it is simply poor and unreliable, unoptimized, cumbersome, and much too prone to errors.
fr we have different companies specialising in OSes already. And you guys know DEs pretty good. Let's just focus on making our little part perfect? This is definitely some exec level fuckery going on who are trying to look at this as a for-profit company.
Linux desktops are a disaster. Every few years, I try again to engage with the Linux desktop. For the past two days, I've been looking at the latest distributions, and I have to say the development is a disaster. Just turning off the constant password prompts in KDE is already a catastrophe. Polkit, KDE Wallet, all this crap that is now annoying, senseless, and provides a desktop experience that is hellish. Linux will never match the efficiency of Windows. Never, not even in 100 years. I've been in this Linux game since 1996, and it's always the same crap. The developers of the Linux desktop simply do not understand what it’s all about, what an efficient desktop is. It’s all childish.
I ABSOLUTELY don't like this idea of a GNOME or KDE distros. They already have so many incomplete projects, so few developers, and both are struggling with money. This is a really bad idea. A distro is a labor intensive service, not a product.
we already got kde and gnome flatpak runtimes. those projects are def not incomplete. and a distro needs to be much simpler and this is a good way to force that. this is really the only and best way forward in my opinion. I also think the reason their projects go incomplete is cuz of the dumb kajillions of distros that can't agree on anything.
tbf if anything KDE has the opposite of money problems. They NEED to spend money and fast because of german tax law. Theyre sitting on too much cash and if i understand correctly that might lose them the non profit status or something like that.
@@mal-avcisi9783 IMHO _Linux desktops are trash since 40 years_ goes too far. This is too generalized and also ignores the long way the projects came and how good they actually are today.
@@SteveHazel GNOME has so many experimental features, and KDE is full of bugs. What would be better? Assign those developers and resources to implement what is missing or assigning them to develop and maintain a distro? They don't have unlimited resources.
When Mozilla integrated their ad technology info Firefox, they said they would also advocate for legal changes towards more privacy friendly advertisements. And now they fired their advocacy division...
They probably didn't want any critical remarks about the ethical calibre of the ... "management". I find this development deeply disturbing, as this team was in my view only 1 step less important than the developer team. The top managers I rank far below the Advocacy Team in importance. The Advocacy Team's importance to stress the importance of open standards for the Web cannot be overstated. This team is the ethical heart of Mozilla and they cut it out!
Linux desktops are a disaster. Every few years, I try again to engage with the Linux desktop. For the past two days, I've been looking at the latest distributions, and I have to say the development is a disaster. Just turning off the constant password prompts in KDE is already a catastrophe. Polkit, KDE Wallet, all this crap that is now annoying, senseless, and provides a desktop experience that is hellish. Linux will never match the efficiency of Windows. Never, not even in 100 years. I've been in this Linux game since 1996, and it's always the same crap. The developers of the Linux desktop simply do not understand what it’s all about, what an efficient desktop is. It’s all childish. linux desktop users are just little kids, who think they are rebels, or they are cool or somtin when they dont use windows. for serious work linux desktop is useless. for playing around and thinking: i am a big hacker, its ok. but not for serious people. i would never use linux desktop in my company all me efficieny of my employes would go down like hell, and i would lose money. so, no change since 30 years. linux desktop is for amateurs not for pros, who really want make money with serious work
@LarixusSnydes except advocating for privacy was only a small part of their advocacy turd cake. You'll find the majority was made up of extreme ideology that is repellant to a majority of people, no matter how it may be dressed up in nice sounding, misleading language. Good riddance advocacy group, your fork tongues will not be missed by most.
@@adriano760 I didn't Google it. I Duck-Duck-Go'd it. From The Register: According to Mozilla's financial filings, Mitchell Baker's compensation increased from $5,591,406 in 2021 [PDF] to $6,903,089 in 2022 [PDF]. Mitchell apparently decided to take all that loot and retire. Laura Chambers took over as CEO in February of 2024. Mozilla has not said how much they are paying her, but, you know, inflation and all.
You guys don't get it, they are cutting the useless parasitic diversity job, while trying to make it sound like they are not "anti-diversity", sugar-coating it in weird terms. I'm not defending Mozilla but this is happening all over the place, for example Boeing. They cut diversity division but still claim to be "devoted to diversity".
@@Kanbei11 When it comes to CEO, some females in California reach certain places where they become bulletproof / untouchable no matter how much they f up. For example Kathleen Kennedy at Disney Lucasfilm. Lots of other examples of female CEOs who ran companies into the ground while getting raises, like Marissa Meyer at Yahoo. That's just how the religion of San Francisco / California works.
Regarding Mozilla: If the CEO of a company that creates FOSS takes a yearly salary of 8 million USD out of the company every year, a) they have betrayed what they stand for and b) you can only watch the boat sink and hope it goes well for Firefox. After I learned about how much they get per year and how much they spend I think even more that Mozilla has to die in order to safe Firefox (if it can be saved at all afterall)
@@RipCityBassWorks Would you rather live in Russia or China? Neither of both? Sorry, but that's not up for debate. (My point here is that there very well may be no other alternative) I'm not saying that a dying Mozilla foundation (including the unsecured future of Firefox) is anything but bad. However, as it is going down right now, I don't think that there really is an alternative for this future let alone that it is avoidable. Just because you slow down on your way downhill or are forced into serpentines does not mean that you don't continue to go downhill (This is meant as _but we have to do something_ ). I think Chrome needs a strong alternative. Firefox may is the only _real_ alternative (excluding Safari that is controlled by Apple). After all the Mozilla foundation seems to have become a place for self enrichment of the few that is being justified on the back of FOSS and that _we need an alternative to Chrome_ . Mozilla has betrayed for what they once stood for. I think this is at least in part because of the millions that google pours into the project (why not take all the money and do nothing to improve the product if the money comes in regardless of what you do). If Firefox was that good or that much needed after all, why do the stats go downhill all the time? If even Edge has more users than you, you are irrelevant as browser.
Now I'm strolling down Memory Lane. 😁 My first Linux distro was Mandrake 5.3 with KDE (1999)... then changed to Fedora + KDE at some point. I've used Ubuntu for a few things, mostly an Ubuntu Studio system, but that's also KDE.
At least you don’t have to be concerned about people telling you Ubuntu is garbage while everything you asked is “What do you use to monitor your GPU fan speed?” LOL.
Firefox: We had a 35% decline in users. We've got to lay off 250 employees to save money. But let's raise our CEO's salary to $7 million because she's doing such great work!
I really hope KDE Linux does support the propietary Nvidia and the VirtualBox drivers for now. Not supporting them could be a massive issue for people wanting to use it imo.
It will definitely cut them off from a lot of GTX users, yeah. RTX is supported by the open modules that Nvidia defaults to, but older than that… not good
@@cameronbosch1213 new people coming from windows would probably have a better time anyway with a distro that has a wider community (like Ubuntu, or Kubuntu if they want KDE), this new KDE distro will need some time to gain traction
@alessandrobianconi4140 Kubuntu is extremely behind when it comes to KDE Plasma versions (24.04 was stuck on 5.27 which is now very EoL) and barely has any developers compared to Ubuntu. Honestly, just use Tuxedo OS over Kubuntu.
I remember I once downloaded Manjaro and everything was broken from the beginning. Browser crashed, package installation immediately resulted in broken dependecies, it was a mess. Then I got Arch and suprisingly none of the same issues occurred.
But EU is busy suing Apple for "monopoly". Last time I checked, their market share was nowhere near a monopoly, but 90%~ market share, which Google has on search engines, CERTAINLY is a monopoly.
I use KDE neon as productive system with no really major issues. So for me there wouldn't be much of a difference other than having an Arch rather than a Debian/Ubuntu base.
I don't know about Gnome/KDE OS. Both projects have limited resources, I personally wonder if they shouldn't spend all of it on making the best DE possible. But maybe having your own OS is necessary for that.
@@MrChelovek68 Most computer users don't care about choice of DE and would never even consider replacing a desktop on their system, they just want an OS with a specific curated design and vision. Having an OS directly from desktop vendor makes it possible for both them and users to have an environment with unmodified DE without any tweaks and other distro specific noises. It's a good product for the users and it's useful for the development of the desktop too.
@@temari2860 only if you talking about windows or macos. linux learn you to choose de and every program. and by the way, you can't just work on linux,you should understand what you are doing in os and how to do smth.and de in *nix it's just userspace program. as i always see, linux fans don't understand basic things, it's fun and sad
The thing about opt in and opt out telemetry that is already built in is this: Microsoft has already shown people how it will be used, with certain features "accidentally" being re-enabled during updates without telling anyone. Once you build a way to print sacks of cash by handing data to the data farmers, the temptation to flip the switch on those money printing services and stab your users in the back will *always* be there. It doesn't even have to be the project heads making a decision to do it, just one dev getting a kickback on the side to accidentally flip the bit.
1 thing you can do is install DNSMASQ... its a way of mass blocking. I discovered it by accident a massive amount of BS Data being fired out of the Ubuntu based distro I use ( Zorin ). I was really shocked... my block list is about 200 domains all data collecting. We already know Ubuntu has been infultrated by microsoft ( the Azure login thing). And I think all the others will eventually get corrupted by MS in some way. Microsoft will NEVER stop pushing for market expansion. And I would not have a problem with that ... Or Windows if they didn't GRIND Your machine into the ground with obscene amount of background processes... If they were as smart as they think they are they would make it efficient enough so no one would notice and subsequenl hardly care... MS is Riding way too much on market share which has been declining for years and will Never come back....
I want to see KDE primarily focusing on plasma development and polishing its app ecosystem and NOT diverting resources to create and maintain a new distro which I believe is completely unnecessary and wasteful. WE HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH DISTROS!!
KDE's DE is 95% of what I use Linux for to begin with. It's awesome and always improving. Hope they keep it up and don't waste time on another stupid distro, too many of them, with surface level differences in most and that's it...DE is most important to me by far
Why are people so against the kde distros? It's literally the perfect thing to do. So many issues are caused by incomplete implementations and missing dependencies that some distros have for the deskop environments. And they won't break as much. It's gonna be the best distros for new users.
@@RenderingUser Arch, OpenSUSE, Fedora, debian, Nix, Gentoo and literally the thousands of others are plenty enough at this point. KDE is already running low on donations, hence the need to prioritise their existing goals and projects. A new distro is completely redundant and a waste of resources that could otherwise be used in developing the actual desktop environment.
Fedora and KDE Neon really make these DE-made distros seem redundant imo. From what I've heard these organizations are already stretched thin. If that's true, I feel like focusing on a distro is the last thing they need. The idea is still cool though; having the option to use a highly opinionated yet flexible distro is really enticing to me.
KDE Neon is probably one of the buggiest distros out there, and gave me a very bad impression of KDE when I used it for a month, so hopefully they can craft a more stable experience this time.
I'm pretty sure KDE is doing a second fundraiser because they are expanding their scope, not because they are in any monetary troubles. They have been discussing this alternative funding for years as a way to get more developers.
A good way to reduce the hate from having telemetry enabled is to provide a way to disable it before the first data collection.For example, add a delay of several days after installation and collect data only if the user has not disabled telemetry during this time. And of course, a checkbox for disabling telemetry should be in the initial setup utility (manjaro-hello).
yayy! my favorite experience with KDE was always with Fedora KDE Spin. it's great to see it will be handled now with the same care as Workstation GNOME.
While part of me thinks 'not another bloody distro'!' I also think a 'desktop first' immutable approach could be interesting, especially if it proved to be super stable. This could make for another couple of 'everyday' distros to join the ranks of Pop OS and Mint where the focus is on making life as easy as possible for beginners - and the timing couldn't be better with Windows 10 ending soon.
So basically macOS. Immutable, has sandboxed software bundles, and robust audio and video subsystems. It even uses launchd which is what systemd wants to be...
@@bufordmaddogtannen I help a lot of older people who are on the technophobe to 'has a piece of junk running Windows 7' spectrum. I typically find them something a bit newer secondhand and set them up with Mint or Pop OS (or Windows debloated if they insist) so yeah, an open source "MacOS" would hit the bullseye for these folks.
Unlike most of the comments, I like the idea of "official" Gnome and KDE distro. Desktop environment are deeply ingtrained in the system, and I alwasy had issues switching from one DE to another. It's just easier for me to install a new distro to check out the default DE. Linux Mint develops Cinnamon and I think it works. I think having the DE developers building their own distros could give us stabler systems.
Regarding non-profits having a hard time raising funds, I must say that there's some low-hanging fruit in this area that many open-source companies are failing to catch. For example, I've been a Linux Mint user for 2 years, and have tried to donate to the Mint foundation repeatedly because I love their product, but they don't accept donations from my geographic region. It's not like I live on the border of a disputed territory in Africa.... I live in New Zealand! I've experienced this problem with other tech companies before, and it seems to be caused by a failure to include an 'Oceania' region (i.e. Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific islands). Amazon excluded us from this for many years, so I can understand smaller non-profits having similar issues, but I think this illustrates a point that there are many people around the world who are willing to support open-source initiatives, but are unable to do so because of frustrating technical barriers.
So there will be immutable kde os based on arch. Steam will release, hopefully soon, steam os based on arch, immutable, with kde. Honestly, steam should just approach them. They already are working tightly with arch. Adding kde to the mix could help/speed things around a lot imo. KDE OS could be something like chromium, and Steam OS could be chrome.
They don't support Nvidia drivers, only the Nouveau ones who are just shit on modern models of RTX like my 4090. Why would Steam support an initiative which hurt gaming? Really.
More distro fragmentation just won't cut it. What they should have focused on is productivity software development and more usable, more user friendly WINE.
yeah cause all Linux devs are a hivemind, and if someone who was gonna work on another distro wouldn't do it, they'd definitely be able to work on productivity software and wine.
@@soymadip I only used it in a VM when I was looking at different Linux distros. I heard it was good at the time I looked at it, but it didn't appeal to me unlike other distros
It's like saying "why are humans doing all those different things, let's just all focus on finding cure to cancer". People working on different distros are working on different things, them not working on those distros wouldn't magically make them improve aspects of other distros. Some random guy building their own Arch-based distro wouldn't be able to make Ubuntu or Fedora or Arch itself better with that free time and resources, these are just different types of activities. People work on their own distros because they want a design/experience that other distros don't aim to provide, not because they want to just do the same thing but better than other existing distros.
@@temari2860 Like HDR support taking 10 years to come to Linux that still isn't 100%? That is just ridiculous. I get that they want to make their distro better than A,B or C. However, I don't think that is the best way to get things done. Coming from Windows and using Linux now, Linux is a fractured system. There isn't structure to it where software or hardware works no matter what distro you want to install.
@@tda0626 Of course, because it's not a corporation with employed people, it's a bunch of random volunteers working on what they want to. My point is that if some Jimmy stops making his own distro that wouldn't mean we'll get more work on HDR, or any DE, or any other distro or any other aspect of Linux. Things like HDR, Wine, a11y, and others will be worked on exclusively by people who can and want to work on them and the amount of distros is irrelevant to their development. What actually impacts those are paid employees (like in case of Valve who upped the wine level a ton in just a few years, and are actively improving the Wayland ecosystem as well as HDR support), and occasional heroes who are just really good and passionate about stuff. SteamOS is also technically a fragmentation, but it's just an assembly of specific design choices and visions, as any other distro. If you want to talk about fragmentation, the actual issue are the competing technologies and design choices (flatpak/snap/appimage, x11/wayland, mutable/immutable fs', sound servers, even desktops), distros are just different people's preferences of combinations of those choices. And in cases of those competing technologies it's not possible to just join forces and create the best thing, cause they are just conceptually completely different approaches and each crowd has their reasons and their supporters.
I sure did not expect there to be disfavor over Gnome and KDE distro. Thankfully on the Mate side, we already have Ubuntu Mate. I agree with them though, more software projects, not distros. Fedora Workstation can already be treated more or less the de facto Gnome distro and the upcoming KDE 'Edition' is just as well-made.
Since I switched to Fedora Kinoite at no point have I felt the need for a change, the frankly immutable systems are very carefree to me and I wouldn't switch to Fedora KDE or any other mutable distro, the immutable systems are just carefree, gives control where necessary, without sacrificing anything sensitive. I really see a reason why many have opted for immutable systems.
Honestly it would make more sense if you had said something like Ubuntu but yeah most of the people Use Fedora Gnome which is considered as default (I guess, correct me if am wrong. The last time i had installed Fedora was an year back.)
I know this is completely off-topic, but I feel like it would be interesting to cover OpenSuse at some point. From what I remember they're going through changes recently, but how is that going ? I often heard of it as the "best rolling release" yet it's never talked about on channels like yours, this is very disorienting. With more and more popping up, seeing a comparison of atomic distributions and the technologies behind them in the coming months would be very interesting, too.
Been using Tumbleweed for 5yrs now with zero problems. My family use it on their pcs with zero problems. Slow Roll sounds like it would be a good compromise for those who don't want daily or weekly updates. I would recommend openSUSE Tumbleweed. Of course as with any linux it pays to ensure your hardware has maximal compatibility.
about the recording, the performance hit on a game CPU bottlenecked by the dx9 driver at 100fps, will fall to 80 with Steam Recording, but it will keep up at 100FPS with both Nvidia shadow play and xbox game bar on windows.... so the performance hit at least on windows is substantial compared to alternatives (this was confirmed by the CS2 community), didn't have time to test on Linux yet
5:24 IMHO KDE has the best telemetry setting: OFF by default and you can share information in different steps. However, I can understand why distros would go for the opt-out option as 80% of all users usually never change their default settings. (This usually means on Windows Desktop PCs, on Linux this percentage is probably lower) The problem is: OFF by default is bad if you want to use telemetry to improve your distro as there will be way less data if it's OFF by default. I get that Linux users do not want to be spied on, but (depending on the collected data) I think it's fair to make such an option opt-out if only basic information is collected, the collected data is anonymised and your are told so with a pop-up on system starup after eg. an update (like the KDE welcome screen).
I think the best is neither opt in nor opt out but forced decision. This way you can ensure the user sees it, explain what it is and what would be sent and get their active choice.
9:52 - I haven't exactly kept close attention on it, so I don't know how true it is, but isn't there currently, like, a massive push by corporations to force a bunch of DRM-related stuff into some new web standards? Maybe that's supposed to be what the "relentless onslaught of change" is referring to?
The data Manjaro collects is absolutely fine and not much at all. I personally wouldn't want to use a distro with any opt-out telemetry tho purely because I don't like random automatic processes on my system, but that's a rare issue for people I guess
Maybe if Manjaro actually contributed and provided value to the wider community I'd feel better about their telemetry. Mozilla changes are incredibly sad they're bringing in new projects and making big changes with thunderbird/k9 on android and such while also getting rid of many people. Removing their highest value team is terrible.
Many of their recent changes and focus on AI and advertising/telemetry and data collection in a "privacy respecting" manner makes it hard to feel good about donating or finanvially supporting them because I don't know if it will really go into propping up the parts of their business or projects that truly improve the wider community. This is why most of my donations go to the gentoo foundation
Mozilla needs to focus on their core business of Firefox and Thunderbird. They need to make change by advancing the technology in Firefox and Thunderbird in the private sector rather than asking for permission in the public sector. They have a billion dollars in assets split between the Mozilla corporation and the Mozilla foundation, maybe their executives need to take a pay cut and that money should go to full time programmers for Firefox and Thunderbird.
Since some big FOSS projects start to act more and more just like any "modern" game developing companies out there, with devs coming up with "bright ideas" but never ever asking their own player-base for any feedback ... I only have one question: when are we supposed to expect micro-transactions and loot-boxes in Linux ? ;-)
I'm a bit skeptical on the whole Desktop developers making their Distros, because im afraid it would lead to some sort of exclusivity, for example some gnome things would only work on GNOME OS and that they would be making gnome with their distro in mind first
That's already the case due to libadwaita and Gnome's constant breaking changes. This is a good development. Let Gnome exclude and isolate themselves. Wonderful.
TH-cam's goal now is to be as crappy as possible Deleting people's comments, keeping bot comments around, breaking features, removing features... The list goes on
YT takes anywhere between twice the length of the video and 2 days to get everything working depending on expected popularity. Captions, chapters, full choice of resolutions all take time to populate. View counts are wildly innacurate for a few hours after posting.
Many companies are citing Macroeconomic difficulties for missing earnings, what else is new? Also advocacy with the incoming US administration seems kind of a waste… but that is my limited view. Continuing to push in Europe seems like a viable alternative, things actually get done.
Not if it's "opinionated". That's a code word for "we don't care how you want to use your computer, you will learn to use your computer the way we think is best." Then again that fits with GNOME's design philosophy, so it's completely unsurprising.
I dont mind a system being "opinionated". Windows' opinions were excellent through 7 and are still mostly good. It becomes a problem when they have bad opinions, like Mac or Gnome or when a system has no opinions like Plasma 4. The last time I used Linux on desktop, XFCE was the popular kid on the block and that seemed to strike a good balance.
@@deusexaethera On the contrary, if a Linux distro ends up going mainstream, it WILL be a highly opinionated one. Most people don't want or care about tweaking everything about their system the way the average Linux user does. They want a system that they can install and then use.
If devs wish for better and healthier adoption of Linux, they really need to stop pushing immutability to the mainstream this hard. It's really not for everyone, maintaining an A/B system is really not user-friendly yet and read-write access on root folders is still necessary for some elementary tasks on Linux.
I really hate to see Manjaro starting to think about implementing Telemetry and worst, making it Opt-Out. In my opinion, Telemetry should always be Opt-In and configurable. Most people that change from Windows to Linux is because they don't like how Microsoft spy on user and collect so much telemetry data, Linux should not take example on them for that.
Guys, if we want to see Linux become a main desktop player, we don't need more distros (in fact we probably need less, at least focus on one to three main flavors for beginners...). What we do need is: - more support for the main use cases of people, even though good progress has been made recently in some areas (gaming, creative suites like Adobe software, Microsoft Office (yes Libre exists and is good, but people hate change and Linux is a big enough change on its own for them), etc.) - higher standards for UI/UX in the open source software world (this happens mainly through the graphic libraries for desktop apps like GTK, Qt...) which MUST implement nicer-looking default UI options if we ever want to compete against private stuff like MacOS where every single pixel on the screen is studied to be the perfect UI/UX (not that it always works for them though, but still). People hate getting new shiny stuff, then being told to use the 10 or 20 year old looking interface which is ten times more confusing just because "freedom"
2010: "Telemetry is bad for privacy and the future of ocmputing. Linux distributions will never have it" 2024: "Telemetry isn't that bad, you should trust us bro". Yeah, in 2024 we even now have TH-camrs defending this practice. How far we have fallen.
Part of me think Kubuntu deserves the same status as og Ubuntu. KDE is too good of an environment for transitioning from Windows to Linux to simply treat as just another Desktop.
I don't get why a lot of people pissed of at Manjaro... They only collect some technical data about your device, like Ubuntu or Debian. Guys, they are not M$...
Well, if not too many opt-in for telemetry, it's perhaps, that no one wants to send any data, because they don't trust companies and even groups of people enough.
I really love Gnome, I really love flatpaks, and I really love immutable distros. I do wonder how necessary this is though? Especially with projects like arkdep promising to eventually bring immutability to every OS. I also wonder how it would handle edge cases where flatpacks aren’t an option. That said, i love everything gnome has to offer, and I would ABSOLUTELY be in the market for this if it’s convenient enough
Why are people so against the kde distros? It's literally the perfect thing to do. So many issues are caused by incomplete implementations and missing dependencies that some distros have for the deskop environments. And they won't break as much. It's gonna be the best distros for new users.
Because it's the "low hanging fruit" of complaining about Linux. Everybody and their grandpa used the "too much fragmentation" arguments since the dawn of time... I have no problem with more or less distros. In the long term it does not affect things at all.
0:45 - TuxCare = Covert Windows Updates… I'm so excited… Can't wait for the first day I wake up to someone's mistake… and 5:50 Manjaro… never gonna go that way : the seemingly harmless system spec : just the tip of the iceberge to mass telemetry with Everyone in the data brokering game…
One of the big "Linux" problems is the distros dispersion. Too much branch only fragments the Linux experience and community. This way, Linux will never have a real "OS" strong player. Anyways...
This is a very common misconception. Why would we want "one Linux" anyway? So we can recreate all the problems of Windows? Haven't we learned that lesson already with Canonical / Ubuntu? They became the "one distro" and started doing corporate / proprietary, anti-user things. Imagine if the Linux world was stuck with only Ubuntu with no other alternative... Just because people are so used to Windows, in their mind the only possibility is to replicate its monopoly... lack of imagination. Thankfully Linux distro devs have more imagination than that. Windows users seem to have a serious Stockholm Syndrome. Think about one of the most popular distros for many years: Mint. It started as nothing more than "Ubuntu with some codecs". If, at the time, we just killed it off because "too much fragmentation" then it would have never existed. This is the nature of open source. Forks, copies, distros is how open source develops, survives and thrives. It's not driven by users needs for "one OS" or by money / profit. It's driven by creativity, personal interest, hobbies, flavors. Over time people lose interest or abandon projects, then forks are born to keep them alive. Or, some wonderful projects (like Ubuntu) start getting worse, and we are able to react and adjust by changing it (like Mint).
Yep! People are so stupid that they hear a word, "advocacy", and automatically assume it means what they think in their heads... Why can't people see through words? Words are empty and meaningless, like how politicians talk.
UUID and hardware-IDs being shared is a non-starter. I LOVE the idea of KDE OS. I'll give it a shot, or use Fedora KDE. Mozilla, I think they had it coming. I hope they get their act together, and work on Firefox again.
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Linux desktops are a disaster. Every few years, I try again to engage with the Linux desktop. For the past two days, I've been looking at the latest distributions, and I have to say the development is a disaster. Just turning off the constant password prompts in KDE is already a catastrophe. Polkit, KDE Wallet, all this crap that is now annoying, senseless, and provides a desktop experience that is hellish. Linux will never match the efficiency of Windows. Never, not even in 100 years. I've been in this Linux game since 1996, and it's always the same crap. The developers of the Linux desktop simply do not understand what it’s all about, what an efficient desktop is. It’s all childish. linux desktop users are just little kids, who think they are rebels, or they are cool or somtin when they dont use windows. for serious work linux desktop is useless. for playing around and thinking: i am a big hacker, its ok. but not for serious people. i would never use linux desktop in my company all me efficieny of my employes would go down like hell, and i would lose money. so, no change since 30 years. linux desktop is for amateurs not for pros, who really want make money with serious work
@@mal-avcisi9783 nice try Satya
@@schtormm linux desktop is shiat, not reliable. no professional software. no adobe suite, no professional office suite, no good IDE for programming, no good video cut program. there are only few good programs and these are from commercial companys like google and closed source, and gaming is also horrible. thats the proof linux desktop is trash. No matter how hard you try to make the Linux desktop sound appealing, it is not good. Period. What do you think is the reason why most Linux desktop users still have a remote desktop connection to a Windows machine or another system? It's because they cannot get anything done properly with Linux. They always need to access other systems. The only thing the Linux desktop is good for is browsing a bit and opening the terminal. For more complex tasks, it is not stable or reliable enough. Professional users would never use the Linux desktop. Media creation, video editing, professional software development, managing large networks, domain access systems, ADS, such tasks simply cannot be accomplished with Linux desktop. Linux desktop is only suitable for simple and basic tasks that are not business-relevant. If the Linux desktop were better, it would already spread much faster in companies and businesses, where real money is actually made. The reason that the Linux desktop has not been able to establish itself for 40 years is exactly this: it is simply poor and unreliable, unoptimized, cumbersome, and much too prone to errors.
new copypasta just dropped
I see news that intel spots 3888% improvement in linux kernel. Make video on it
I want more Linux software. Not new distros. We already have good Gnome and KDE distros.
This. Prioritize creating more software. This is the biggest criticism from Windows users. I don't see anyone complaining about the lack of distros.
Not more software either. More collaboration for software. Linuxs' problem isn't the amount of software, its what the software is
fr we have different companies specialising in OSes already. And you guys know DEs pretty good. Let's just focus on making our little part perfect?
This is definitely some exec level fuckery going on who are trying to look at this as a for-profit company.
Linux desktops are a disaster. Every few years, I try again to engage with the Linux desktop. For the past two days, I've been looking at the latest distributions, and I have to say the development is a disaster. Just turning off the constant password prompts in KDE is already a catastrophe. Polkit, KDE Wallet, all this crap that is now annoying, senseless, and provides a desktop experience that is hellish. Linux will never match the efficiency of Windows. Never, not even in 100 years. I've been in this Linux game since 1996, and it's always the same crap. The developers of the Linux desktop simply do not understand what it’s all about, what an efficient desktop is. It’s all childish.
@@mal-avcisi9783 I agree Developers need to focus on the experience: "If the user need's to use the terminal" YOU ALREADY LOST 😤
I ABSOLUTELY don't like this idea of a GNOME or KDE distros. They already have so many incomplete projects, so few developers, and both are struggling with money. This is a really bad idea. A distro is a labor intensive service, not a product.
we already got kde and gnome flatpak runtimes. those projects are def not incomplete. and a distro needs to be much simpler and this is a good way to force that. this is really the only and best way forward in my opinion. I also think the reason their projects go incomplete is cuz of the dumb kajillions of distros that can't agree on anything.
@@MrAlanCristhian Linux desktops are trash since 40 years
tbf if anything KDE has the opposite of money problems. They NEED to spend money and fast because of german tax law. Theyre sitting on too much cash and if i understand correctly that might lose them the non profit status or something like that.
@@mal-avcisi9783 IMHO _Linux desktops are trash since 40 years_ goes too far. This is too generalized and also ignores the long way the projects came and how good they actually are today.
@@SteveHazel GNOME has so many experimental features, and KDE is full of bugs. What would be better? Assign those developers and resources to implement what is missing or assigning them to develop and maintain a distro? They don't have unlimited resources.
When Mozilla integrated their ad technology info Firefox, they said they would also advocate for legal changes towards more privacy friendly advertisements. And now they fired their advocacy division...
They probably didn't want any critical remarks about the ethical calibre of the ... "management". I find this development deeply disturbing, as this team was in my view only 1 step less important than the developer team. The top managers I rank far below the Advocacy Team in importance. The Advocacy Team's importance to stress the importance of open standards for the Web cannot be overstated. This team is the ethical heart of Mozilla and they cut it out!
Linux desktops are a disaster. Every few years, I try again to engage with the Linux desktop. For the past two days, I've been looking at the latest distributions, and I have to say the development is a disaster. Just turning off the constant password prompts in KDE is already a catastrophe. Polkit, KDE Wallet, all this crap that is now annoying, senseless, and provides a desktop experience that is hellish. Linux will never match the efficiency of Windows. Never, not even in 100 years. I've been in this Linux game since 1996, and it's always the same crap. The developers of the Linux desktop simply do not understand what it’s all about, what an efficient desktop is. It’s all childish. linux desktop users are just little kids, who think they are rebels, or they are cool or somtin when they dont use windows. for serious work linux desktop is useless. for playing around and thinking: i am a big hacker, its ok. but not for serious people. i would never use linux desktop in my company all me efficieny of my employes would go down like hell, and i would lose money. so, no change since 30 years. linux desktop is for amateurs not for pros, who really want make money with serious work
do NOT google the salary of mozilla's ceo
@LarixusSnydes except advocating for privacy was only a small part of their advocacy turd cake. You'll find the majority was made up of extreme ideology that is repellant to a majority of people, no matter how it may be dressed up in nice sounding, misleading language.
Good riddance advocacy group, your fork tongues will not be missed by most.
@@adriano760 I didn't Google it. I Duck-Duck-Go'd it.
From The Register:
According to Mozilla's financial filings, Mitchell Baker's compensation increased from $5,591,406 in 2021 [PDF] to $6,903,089 in 2022 [PDF].
Mitchell apparently decided to take all that loot and retire. Laura Chambers took over as CEO in February of 2024. Mozilla has not said how much they are paying her, but, you know, inflation and all.
I am inspired by Mozilla. I've just chopped off both my feet to increase my agility and impact.
Why cut CEO pay when you can lay off staff /s
You guys don't get it, they are cutting the useless parasitic diversity job, while trying to make it sound like they are not "anti-diversity", sugar-coating it in weird terms.
I'm not defending Mozilla but this is happening all over the place, for example Boeing. They cut diversity division but still claim to be "devoted to diversity".
@@Kanbei11 When it comes to CEO, some females in California reach certain places where they become bulletproof / untouchable no matter how much they f up. For example Kathleen Kennedy at Disney Lucasfilm. Lots of other examples of female CEOs who ran companies into the ground while getting raises, like Marissa Meyer at Yahoo. That's just how the religion of San Francisco / California works.
@@Kanbei11 Capitalism
Regarding Mozilla:
If the CEO of a company that creates FOSS takes a yearly salary of 8 million USD out of the company every year, a) they have betrayed what they stand for and b) you can only watch the boat sink and hope it goes well for Firefox.
After I learned about how much they get per year and how much they spend I think even more that Mozilla has to die in order to safe Firefox (if it can be saved at all afterall)
💯
What's the alternative? Chrome is cracking down on ad blockers and tracker blockers...
@@RipCityBassWorks Would you rather live in Russia or China? Neither of both? Sorry, but that's not up for debate. (My point here is that there very well may be no other alternative)
I'm not saying that a dying Mozilla foundation (including the unsecured future of Firefox) is anything but bad. However, as it is going down right now, I don't think that there really is an alternative for this future let alone that it is avoidable. Just because you slow down on your way downhill or are forced into serpentines does not mean that you don't continue to go downhill (This is meant as _but we have to do something_ ).
I think Chrome needs a strong alternative. Firefox may is the only _real_ alternative (excluding Safari that is controlled by Apple). After all the Mozilla foundation seems to have become a place for self enrichment of the few that is being justified on the back of FOSS and that _we need an alternative to Chrome_ . Mozilla has betrayed for what they once stood for. I think this is at least in part because of the millions that google pours into the project (why not take all the money and do nothing to improve the product if the money comes in regardless of what you do).
If Firefox was that good or that much needed after all, why do the stats go downhill all the time? If even Edge has more users than you, you are irrelevant as browser.
@@RipCityBassWorks The good news is that Chrome is open source, so 3rd party forks can add it back
I've always used KDE on Fedora, so KDE getting "top level" status makes me very happy. 😁
Now I'm strolling down Memory Lane. 😁 My first Linux distro was Mandrake 5.3 with KDE (1999)... then changed to Fedora + KDE at some point. I've used Ubuntu for a few things, mostly an Ubuntu Studio system, but that's also KDE.
Fedora (Nobara) + Gnome is very good too in my opinion
"That looks amazing! What OS is it?"
this is gonna be _much_ harder to explain
arch with kde™
@@Aisen_I use arch (btw)
GnomeOS.
At least you don’t have to be concerned about people telling you Ubuntu is garbage while everything you asked is “What do you use to monitor your GPU fan speed?” LOL.
Nobody ever asked that. Come on.
Firefox: we need stop wasting money! also Firefox: lets invest into this new AI thing!
I think that's something investors like to hear
Firefox: We had a 35% decline in users. We've got to lay off 250 employees to save money. But let's raise our CEO's salary to $7 million because she's doing such great work!
@@vulpo Notice that she is female.
Honestly it would be hilarious if Gnome OS takes over Ubuntu's market share while Ubuntu commits snapicide
Isn't it snap that's committing Ubuntucide?
LMDE has a much better chance to eventually get there, in my opinion.
I really hope KDE Linux does support the propietary Nvidia and the VirtualBox drivers for now. Not supporting them could be a massive issue for people wanting to use it imo.
It will definitely cut them off from a lot of GTX users, yeah. RTX is supported by the open modules that Nvidia defaults to, but older than that… not good
@@TheLinuxEXPEspecially since many GTX 9 & 10 series GPUs can't run Windows 11 (officially) but would be just fine on Linux, if it wasn't for that.
@@cameronbosch1213 new people coming from windows would probably have a better time anyway with a distro that has a wider community (like Ubuntu, or Kubuntu if they want KDE), this new KDE distro will need some time to gain traction
@alessandrobianconi4140 Kubuntu is extremely behind when it comes to KDE Plasma versions (24.04 was stuck on 5.27 which is now very EoL) and barely has any developers compared to Ubuntu. Honestly, just use Tuxedo OS over Kubuntu.
I'll just say one word: "Hyprland"😀
Manjaro's 0.1% marketshare of Linux Distros is now gonna shrink down to 0.001% lmao
It always amazes me how companies self-destruct with their dumb decisions.
We'll have to wait and see, Manjaro has survived so many poor decisions already lmao
I remember I once downloaded Manjaro and everything was broken from the beginning. Browser crashed, package installation immediately resulted in broken dependecies, it was a mess. Then I got Arch and suprisingly none of the same issues occurred.
@@MartinWoad strange, I'm currently using Manjaro because it's only distro I dried that works with my hardware just fine :)
It's already a trash distro with tonnes of issues (it DDoSes the AUR!). Just get everyone using it to switch to endeavourOS
The EU should fund Mozilla - and if it is only to keep a second browser engine that is not controlled by big US tech
But EU is busy suing Apple for "monopoly". Last time I checked, their market share was nowhere near a monopoly, but 90%~ market share, which Google has on search engines, CERTAINLY is a monopoly.
@@mich977f ...That's not even what's happening, lol. Both Google AND Apple are under fire for anti-competitive behavior, and both deserve it.
The EU should make rules in what a SEO should earn. They get way to many money, for doing terrible things for the company.
Me wondering what KDE Neon was this whole time.
Edit: Read the replies before replying urself, pls. 🙏 Thx!
Neon is a testing ground.
A testing distro
You are not alone.
Neon is Testing Distro :D Each new update break everything LoL
I use KDE neon as productive system with no really major issues.
So for me there wouldn't be much of a difference other than having an Arch rather than a Debian/Ubuntu base.
I don't know about Gnome/KDE OS. Both projects have limited resources, I personally wonder if they shouldn't spend all of it on making the best DE possible. But maybe having your own OS is necessary for that.
No,it's not necessary, you get only "yet another locked piece of shit". If you don't understand this simple thing,you should grow
@@MrChelovek68 Most computer users don't care about choice of DE and would never even consider replacing a desktop on their system, they just want an OS with a specific curated design and vision. Having an OS directly from desktop vendor makes it possible for both them and users to have an environment with unmodified DE without any tweaks and other distro specific noises. It's a good product for the users and it's useful for the development of the desktop too.
Gnome won the de Wars a year ago with Gnome 2. Rather than build on that win they just threw it all away to be a Marcos wannabe and be terrible at il.
@@gogereaver349 gnome? lmao, but it looks better than kde
@@temari2860 only if you talking about windows or macos. linux learn you to choose de and every program. and by the way, you can't just work on linux,you should understand what you are doing in os and how to do smth.and de in *nix it's just userspace program. as i always see, linux fans don't understand basic things, it's fun and sad
The thing about opt in and opt out telemetry that is already built in is this: Microsoft has already shown people how it will be used, with certain features "accidentally" being re-enabled during updates without telling anyone. Once you build a way to print sacks of cash by handing data to the data farmers, the temptation to flip the switch on those money printing services and stab your users in the back will *always* be there. It doesn't even have to be the project heads making a decision to do it, just one dev getting a kickback on the side to accidentally flip the bit.
It WILL... Be Abused...
So Manjaro is as bad as Windows now got it
1 thing you can do is install DNSMASQ... its a way of mass blocking. I discovered it by accident a massive amount of BS Data being fired out of the Ubuntu based distro I use ( Zorin ). I was really shocked... my block list is about 200 domains all data collecting. We already know Ubuntu has been infultrated by microsoft ( the Azure login thing). And I think all the others will eventually get corrupted by MS in some way. Microsoft will NEVER stop pushing for market expansion. And I would not have a problem with that ... Or Windows if they didn't GRIND Your machine into the ground with obscene amount of background processes... If they were as smart as they think they are they would make it efficient enough so no one would notice and subsequenl hardly care... MS is Riding way too much on market share which has been declining for years and will Never come back....
@@FantomMisfit Probably worse because they will likely conceal as much as possible. "Hot / Runtime" tinkering with the Kernel... ?? Total Insanity....
I want to see KDE primarily focusing on plasma development and polishing its app ecosystem and NOT diverting resources to create and maintain a new distro which I believe is completely unnecessary and wasteful.
WE HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH DISTROS!!
Completely agree, there are already good KDE distros out there.
KDE's DE is 95% of what I use Linux for to begin with. It's awesome and always improving. Hope they keep it up and don't waste time on another stupid distro, too many of them, with surface level differences in most and that's it...DE is most important to me by far
Why are people so against the kde distros? It's literally the perfect thing to do. So many issues are caused by incomplete implementations and missing dependencies that some distros have for the deskop environments. And they won't break as much. It's gonna be the best distros for new users.
@@RenderingUser Arch, OpenSUSE, Fedora, debian, Nix, Gentoo and literally the thousands of others are plenty enough at this point. KDE is already running low on donations, hence the need to prioritise their existing goals and projects.
A new distro is completely redundant and a waste of resources that could otherwise be used in developing the actual desktop environment.
@@ShinigamiDa debian kde came with missing packages. Arch kde default install has even more missing packages. Idk the others
I remember the time when people used to say everyone hate Manjaro just because it's popular. Manjaro team itself love to prove it wrong.
It's a completely irrelevant distro especially now that EndeavourOS is so good
@@cacomeat7385there is also the installer in arch itself these days
Fedora KDE FTW
+ the new OS installer
+ DNF5
+ Plasma 6.2+
Let's go!
Can't wait for Nobara to update to Fedora 41 for that new DNF5.
@@donaldbaird7849dnf5 has been around since at least fc 38.
Opt out telemetry done by Manjaro? No thanks....
If you make telemetry collection opt-in, and people choose not to opt-in, you can take that as data as to what people want in their OS.
How do you figure out how many people opted out? 🤔
@@Batwam0you call home on the answer of that question only? 😂
Fedora and KDE Neon really make these DE-made distros seem redundant imo. From what I've heard these organizations are already stretched thin. If that's true, I feel like focusing on a distro is the last thing they need. The idea is still cool though; having the option to use a highly opinionated yet flexible distro is really enticing to me.
neon is for devs it was never made to even be remotely stable.
Isn't the proposed GNOME OS literally Fedora Silverblue?
Basically
But you know, we need more and more Linux distros bloating the pool
And kde plasma is literally opensuse slowroll / tumbleweed
Silverblue uses rpm-ostree/bootc while GNOME OS uses systemd-sysupdate and systemd-sysext
@@rangelovd GNOME OS also uses ostree
@@HunsterMonter Not anymore. Search for "Why did GNOME OS choose systemd-sysupdate over bootc?"
KDE Neon is probably one of the buggiest distros out there, and gave me a very bad impression of KDE when I used it for a month, so hopefully they can craft a more stable experience this time.
It shouldn't even exist as it just manages to stain plasma
@ fr lmao
Plasma is a stable production-ready branch.
Neon is a an experimental testing dev branch.
Neon is a dev testing environment, not a stable sicure day to day distro
@@dead_art I used the user edition which ships the latest officially released KDE version on a “stable” base according to the website
I'm pretty sure KDE is doing a second fundraiser because they are expanding their scope, not because they are in any monetary troubles. They have been discussing this alternative funding for years as a way to get more developers.
A good way to reduce the hate from having telemetry enabled is to provide a way to disable it before the first data collection.For example, add a delay of several days after installation and collect data only if the user has not disabled telemetry during this time. And of course, a checkbox for disabling telemetry should be in the initial setup utility (manjaro-hello).
Speaking as a software developer, providing a single batch of telemetry is the least you can do in exchange for using software for free.
debian has popcon since 1998 ...
@@deusexaethera what if you're donating to the project, should we cut down the donation?
Make it opt-in instead of opt-out... Problem solved.
Speaking as a software developer, f no. CONSENT is the key! You don't have that by default. Not in software, not in relationships, *NO WHERE!*
yayy! my favorite experience with KDE was always with Fedora KDE Spin. it's great to see it will be handled now with the same care as Workstation GNOME.
Thank you for the news Nick. The move on Mozilla is disappointing and unsurprising.
I would legitimately switch to GNOME OS if it becomes a stable, polished system.
Just use Silverblue, it's basically identical to what they are proposing for GNOME OS
Liberté, fraternité, algorithmé!
While part of me thinks 'not another bloody distro'!' I also think a 'desktop first' immutable approach could be interesting, especially if it proved to be super stable. This could make for another couple of 'everyday' distros to join the ranks of Pop OS and Mint where the focus is on making life as easy as possible for beginners - and the timing couldn't be better with Windows 10 ending soon.
So basically macOS. Immutable, has sandboxed software bundles, and robust audio and video subsystems. It even uses launchd which is what systemd wants to be...
@@bufordmaddogtannen I help a lot of older people who are on the technophobe to 'has a piece of junk running Windows 7' spectrum. I typically find them something a bit newer secondhand and set them up with Mint or Pop OS (or Windows debloated if they insist) so yeah, an open source "MacOS" would hit the bullseye for these folks.
I'm excited for a Gnome desktop! I want the latest gnome Shell, I want immutable, and I like the standard Gnome apps.
Fedora Silverblue exists.
KDE should work more with distributions like Fedora rather than make their own distribution.
Yeah, but we get yet ANOTHER distro in the immense ocean of them.
Fedora probably has the best KDE implementation.
Can't wait for an Apple-nux Distro
Unlike most of the comments, I like the idea of "official" Gnome and KDE distro. Desktop environment are deeply ingtrained in the system, and I alwasy had issues switching from one DE to another. It's just easier for me to install a new distro to check out the default DE. Linux Mint develops Cinnamon and I think it works. I think having the DE developers building their own distros could give us stabler systems.
Regarding non-profits having a hard time raising funds, I must say that there's some low-hanging fruit in this area that many open-source companies are failing to catch. For example, I've been a Linux Mint user for 2 years, and have tried to donate to the Mint foundation repeatedly because I love their product, but they don't accept donations from my geographic region. It's not like I live on the border of a disputed territory in Africa.... I live in New Zealand!
I've experienced this problem with other tech companies before, and it seems to be caused by a failure to include an 'Oceania' region (i.e. Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific islands). Amazon excluded us from this for many years, so I can understand smaller non-profits having similar issues, but I think this illustrates a point that there are many people around the world who are willing to support open-source initiatives, but are unable to do so because of frustrating technical barriers.
So there will be immutable kde os based on arch.
Steam will release, hopefully soon, steam os based on arch, immutable, with kde.
Honestly, steam should just approach them. They already are working tightly with arch. Adding kde to the mix could help/speed things around a lot imo.
KDE OS could be something like chromium, and Steam OS could be chrome.
They don't support Nvidia drivers, only the Nouveau ones who are just shit on modern models of RTX like my 4090. Why would Steam support an initiative which hurt gaming? Really.
@@s.anonyme6855 Why are you talking as if everything kde said would be itched in stone? Of course there would be some changes if valve got involved.
KDE OS is basically open source general purpose, Steam OS likely going for proprietary next decade. That's why KDE OS Arch Based Immutable Distro.
More distro fragmentation just won't cut it. What they should have focused on is productivity software development and more usable, more user friendly WINE.
yeah cause all Linux devs are a hivemind, and if someone who was gonna work on another distro wouldn't do it, they'd definitely be able to work on productivity software and wine.
@@temari2860 Exactly. People just don't get it...
I thought KDE OS and GNOME OS would be useless, however I really like the idea of Linux mint. So...
Manjaro devs forgetting how consent works...
Optout telemetry is like someone stalking you and pretending it is okay as long as they stop if you catch them.
Huh I thought KDE Neon was already the official KDE Plasma Linux distro.
Yeah, but it has many problems, apparently
Don't ever use it, that thing ruined my life once😶🌫️
Neon is the testing distro for all things KDE, not suitable for anything else by design
@@soymadip I only used it in a VM when I was looking at different Linux distros. I heard it was good at the time I looked at it, but it didn't appeal to me unlike other distros
@@TheLinuxEXP .deb packaging. It seems to be too hard for kids these days.
I hate that GNOME and KDE more and more create their own silos. I just want most applications to be distro and DE independent.
Why can't the community just get together and focus on a few distros? IMO, more would get done that way.
That is what's happening with these propositions. Instead of focusing on tens upon tens of distributions‚ the focus is on the few desktops
@@rangelovd Thanks for the clarification. That is great news then.
It's like saying "why are humans doing all those different things, let's just all focus on finding cure to cancer". People working on different distros are working on different things, them not working on those distros wouldn't magically make them improve aspects of other distros. Some random guy building their own Arch-based distro wouldn't be able to make Ubuntu or Fedora or Arch itself better with that free time and resources, these are just different types of activities. People work on their own distros because they want a design/experience that other distros don't aim to provide, not because they want to just do the same thing but better than other existing distros.
@@temari2860 Like HDR support taking 10 years to come to Linux that still isn't 100%? That is just ridiculous. I get that they want to make their distro better than A,B or C. However, I don't think that is the best way to get things done. Coming from Windows and using Linux now, Linux is a fractured system. There isn't structure to it where software or hardware works no matter what distro you want to install.
@@tda0626 Of course, because it's not a corporation with employed people, it's a bunch of random volunteers working on what they want to. My point is that if some Jimmy stops making his own distro that wouldn't mean we'll get more work on HDR, or any DE, or any other distro or any other aspect of Linux. Things like HDR, Wine, a11y, and others will be worked on exclusively by people who can and want to work on them and the amount of distros is irrelevant to their development. What actually impacts those are paid employees (like in case of Valve who upped the wine level a ton in just a few years, and are actively improving the Wayland ecosystem as well as HDR support), and occasional heroes who are just really good and passionate about stuff. SteamOS is also technically a fragmentation, but it's just an assembly of specific design choices and visions, as any other distro. If you want to talk about fragmentation, the actual issue are the competing technologies and design choices (flatpak/snap/appimage, x11/wayland, mutable/immutable fs', sound servers, even desktops), distros are just different people's preferences of combinations of those choices. And in cases of those competing technologies it's not possible to just join forces and create the best thing, cause they are just conceptually completely different approaches and each crowd has their reasons and their supporters.
I sure did not expect there to be disfavor over Gnome and KDE distro. Thankfully on the Mate side, we already have Ubuntu Mate. I agree with them though, more software projects, not distros. Fedora Workstation can already be treated more or less the de facto Gnome distro and the upcoming KDE 'Edition' is just as well-made.
Come on. Do one thing, and do it well. Managing distributions on top of desktop environment may overwhelm the volunteer community.
Except, flatpak has problems with fonts and system files. Even with flatseal.
Flatpack is ok, but is far from perfect.
@@MrAlanCristhian I think distro packages are OK. Flatpak is flat out BAD.
Since I switched to Fedora Kinoite at no point have I felt the need for a change, the frankly immutable systems are very carefree to me and I wouldn't switch to Fedora KDE or any other mutable distro, the immutable systems are just carefree, gives control where necessary, without sacrificing anything sensitive. I really see a reason why many have opted for immutable systems.
Having the core os read-only using layers does use a bit more resources but the trade-off is a system that is just almost impossible to break is nice.
Here I thought Fedora was Gnome's distro. 🤔
No, they just don’t really tweak the defaults!
@@TheLinuxEXPAh, I see. Thanks for the info.
Honestly it would make more sense if you had said something like Ubuntu but yeah most of the people Use Fedora Gnome which is considered as default (I guess, correct me if am wrong. The last time i had installed Fedora was an year back.)
@@Cargren18 Really? I was under the impression that the guys who oversee Fedora were the same ones that oversee Gnome development too.
They're both funded by red hat but they're not really developed by them in any way
I know this is completely off-topic, but I feel like it would be interesting to cover OpenSuse at some point.
From what I remember they're going through changes recently, but how is that going ?
I often heard of it as the "best rolling release" yet it's never talked about on channels like yours, this is very disorienting.
With more and more popping up, seeing a comparison of atomic distributions and the technologies behind them in the coming months would be very interesting, too.
Been using Tumbleweed for 5yrs now with zero problems. My family use it on their pcs with zero problems. Slow Roll sounds like it would be a good compromise for those who don't want daily or weekly updates. I would recommend openSUSE Tumbleweed. Of course as with any linux it pays to ensure your hardware has maximal compatibility.
about the recording, the performance hit on a game CPU bottlenecked by the dx9 driver at 100fps, will fall to 80 with Steam Recording, but it will keep up at 100FPS with both Nvidia shadow play and xbox game bar on windows.... so the performance hit at least on windows is substantial compared to alternatives (this was confirmed by the CS2 community), didn't have time to test on Linux yet
I tried it in JC3 and it caused the input to either not register or behave like the key was locked pressed. LOL. Disabled at the speed of light.
5:24 IMHO KDE has the best telemetry setting: OFF by default and you can share information in different steps.
However, I can understand why distros would go for the opt-out option as 80% of all users usually never change their default settings. (This usually means on Windows Desktop PCs, on Linux this percentage is probably lower) The problem is: OFF by default is bad if you want to use telemetry to improve your distro as there will be way less data if it's OFF by default.
I get that Linux users do not want to be spied on, but (depending on the collected data) I think it's fair to make such an option opt-out if only basic information is collected, the collected data is anonymised and your are told so with a pop-up on system starup after eg. an update (like the KDE welcome screen).
I think the best is neither opt in nor opt out but forced decision.
This way you can ensure the user sees it, explain what it is and what would be sent and get their active choice.
9:52 - I haven't exactly kept close attention on it, so I don't know how true it is, but isn't there currently, like, a massive push by corporations to force a bunch of DRM-related stuff into some new web standards? Maybe that's supposed to be what the "relentless onslaught of change" is referring to?
Gnome OS, yeah, I’d definitely be interested.
The data Manjaro collects is absolutely fine and not much at all. I personally wouldn't want to use a distro with any opt-out telemetry tho purely because I don't like random automatic processes on my system, but that's a rare issue for people I guess
Bye, Manjaro. It was nice not knowing you.
Maybe if Manjaro actually contributed and provided value to the wider community I'd feel better about their telemetry.
Mozilla changes are incredibly sad they're bringing in new projects and making big changes with thunderbird/k9 on android and such while also getting rid of many people. Removing their highest value team is terrible.
Many of their recent changes and focus on AI and advertising/telemetry and data collection in a "privacy respecting" manner makes it hard to feel good about donating or finanvially supporting them because I don't know if it will really go into propping up the parts of their business or projects that truly improve the wider community. This is why most of my donations go to the gentoo foundation
Mozilla needs to focus on their core business of Firefox and Thunderbird. They need to make change by advancing the technology in Firefox and Thunderbird in the private sector rather than asking for permission in the public sector. They have a billion dollars in assets split between the Mozilla corporation and the Mozilla foundation, maybe their executives need to take a pay cut and that money should go to full time programmers for Firefox and Thunderbird.
Since some big FOSS projects start to act more and more just like any "modern" game developing companies out there, with devs coming up with "bright ideas" but never ever asking their own player-base for any feedback ... I only have one question: when are we supposed to expect micro-transactions and loot-boxes in Linux ? ;-)
Telemetry should always be off by default. Requiring you to turn it off is just a way to try to trick people that go through the installer quickly.
I'm a bit skeptical on the whole Desktop developers making their Distros, because im afraid it would lead to some sort of exclusivity, for example some gnome things would only work on GNOME OS and that they would be making gnome with their distro in mind first
That's already the case due to libadwaita and Gnome's constant breaking changes.
This is a good development. Let Gnome exclude and isolate themselves. Wonderful.
why do people even use manjaro still.
I don't know why YT is doing this, but your timestamps in the description aren't showing in the player
TH-cam's goal now is to be as crappy as possible
Deleting people's comments, keeping bot comments around, breaking features, removing features...
The list goes on
Pretty sure he didn't make one or else i am goin blind too.
@Nullbl0ckerr0r It's there in the description. I checked. Maybe the player should show them now?
@@muizzsiddique yeah its there now🤔🤔
YT takes anywhere between twice the length of the video and 2 days to get everything working depending on expected popularity. Captions, chapters, full choice of resolutions all take time to populate. View counts are wildly innacurate for a few hours after posting.
*KDE releases another KDE distro*
Users: This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them.
Many companies are citing Macroeconomic difficulties for missing earnings, what else is new? Also advocacy with the incoming US administration seems kind of a waste… but that is my limited view. Continuing to push in Europe seems like a viable alternative, things actually get done.
Thanks Nick.
Thanks Steve.
I am amazed that KDE have time to build their own distro but doesn't have time to solve Wayland.
TBH Gnome os might be a great option for ppl who is new to linux
Not if it's "opinionated". That's a code word for "we don't care how you want to use your computer, you will learn to use your computer the way we think is best." Then again that fits with GNOME's design philosophy, so it's completely unsurprising.
@@deusexaethera Yea that just kinda sounds like windows and mac but open source
@CentreMetre was about to say that sounds like Windows 11 😂 but you beat me to it
I dont mind a system being "opinionated". Windows' opinions were excellent through 7 and are still mostly good. It becomes a problem when they have bad opinions, like Mac or Gnome or when a system has no opinions like Plasma 4. The last time I used Linux on desktop, XFCE was the popular kid on the block and that seemed to strike a good balance.
@@deusexaethera On the contrary, if a Linux distro ends up going mainstream, it WILL be a highly opinionated one.
Most people don't want or care about tweaking everything about their system the way the average Linux user does. They want a system that they can install and then use.
If devs wish for better and healthier adoption of Linux, they really need to stop pushing immutability to the mainstream this hard. It's really not for everyone, maintaining an A/B system is really not user-friendly yet and read-write access on root folders is still necessary for some elementary tasks on Linux.
Do we need another pair of distros?
Why not?
No, we don't.
I really hate to see Manjaro starting to think about implementing Telemetry and worst, making it Opt-Out. In my opinion, Telemetry should always be Opt-In and configurable. Most people that change from Windows to Linux is because they don't like how Microsoft spy on user and collect so much telemetry data, Linux should not take example on them for that.
Manjaro just collects device details, but they are not profiling you. Don't compare Manjaro with M$.
Anonymised, aggregate, optional and informed data collection is really not that bad, even if opt-out.
The game recording feature for steam leaves me hoping we could get "Game Capture" in OBS on Linux finally like it exists on windows.
I used Arch before using Arch as a base distro was cool
Guys, if we want to see Linux become a main desktop player, we don't need more distros (in fact we probably need less, at least focus on one to three main flavors for beginners...).
What we do need is:
- more support for the main use cases of people, even though good progress has been made recently in some areas (gaming, creative suites like Adobe software, Microsoft Office (yes Libre exists and is good, but people hate change and Linux is a big enough change on its own for them), etc.)
- higher standards for UI/UX in the open source software world (this happens mainly through the graphic libraries for desktop apps like GTK, Qt...) which MUST implement nicer-looking default UI options if we ever want to compete against private stuff like MacOS where every single pixel on the screen is studied to be the perfect UI/UX (not that it always works for them though, but still). People hate getting new shiny stuff, then being told to use the 10 or 20 year old looking interface which is ten times more confusing just because "freedom"
2010: "Telemetry is bad for privacy and the future of ocmputing. Linux distributions will never have it"
2024: "Telemetry isn't that bad, you should trust us bro".
Yeah, in 2024 we even now have TH-camrs defending this practice. How far we have fallen.
manjaro has always been this distro of bad choices. Nobody ever mimics them. They have been made irrelevant with Endevor and catchy os anyways.
kde on arch official would be amazing
arch users prefer window managers
Part of me think Kubuntu deserves the same status as og Ubuntu. KDE is too good of an environment for transitioning from Windows to Linux to simply treat as just another Desktop.
Oh yea, that's what Linux needed, more fragmentation! That will surely help everyone!
Manjaro is the trainwreck that keeps on giving.
I don't get why a lot of people pissed of at Manjaro...
They only collect some technical data about your device, like Ubuntu or Debian.
Guys, they are not M$...
Well, if not too many opt-in for telemetry, it's perhaps, that no one wants to send any data, because they don't trust companies and even groups of people enough.
I really love Gnome, I really love flatpaks, and I really love immutable distros.
I do wonder how necessary this is though? Especially with projects like arkdep promising to eventually bring immutability to every OS.
I also wonder how it would handle edge cases where flatpacks aren’t an option.
That said, i love everything gnome has to offer, and I would ABSOLUTELY be in the market for this if it’s convenient enough
KDE distro is going to be Arch based
Fedora KDE getting edition status in Fedora is huge.
Maybe this is a sign that Gnome era is over and KDE is to become more popular
2027... a Ladybird appears on the horizon...
I referred to KDE Neon as a distro and they jumped all over me. They're probably coming for you right now, Nick!! ;-)
I both like Gnome and KDE
it is my humble opinion that we currently have *too* many distros.
Just switched away from Manjaro last month which was probably a good thing
Why are people so against the kde distros? It's literally the perfect thing to do. So many issues are caused by incomplete implementations and missing dependencies that some distros have for the deskop environments. And they won't break as much. It's gonna be the best distros for new users.
Because it's the "low hanging fruit" of complaining about Linux.
Everybody and their grandpa used the "too much fragmentation" arguments since the dawn of time...
I have no problem with more or less distros. In the long term it does not affect things at all.
UGH ... Firefox and Thunderbird do not need AI.
They do need privacy, though.
If there's anything Linux does not need more of, it's more distros. These Gnome and KDE Os are basically Fedora Atomics.
very good video !
0:45 - TuxCare = Covert Windows Updates… I'm so excited… Can't wait for the first day I wake up to someone's mistake… and 5:50 Manjaro… never gonna go that way : the seemingly harmless system spec : just the tip of the iceberge to mass telemetry with Everyone in the data brokering game…
One of the big "Linux" problems is the distros dispersion. Too much branch only fragments the Linux experience and community. This way, Linux will never have a real "OS" strong player. Anyways...
This is a very common misconception.
Why would we want "one Linux" anyway? So we can recreate all the problems of Windows?
Haven't we learned that lesson already with Canonical / Ubuntu? They became the "one distro" and started doing corporate / proprietary, anti-user things. Imagine if the Linux world was stuck with only Ubuntu with no other alternative...
Just because people are so used to Windows, in their mind the only possibility is to replicate its monopoly... lack of imagination.
Thankfully Linux distro devs have more imagination than that.
Windows users seem to have a serious Stockholm Syndrome.
Think about one of the most popular distros for many years: Mint.
It started as nothing more than "Ubuntu with some codecs".
If, at the time, we just killed it off because "too much fragmentation" then it would have never existed.
This is the nature of open source.
Forks, copies, distros is how open source develops, survives and thrives.
It's not driven by users needs for "one OS" or by money / profit.
It's driven by creativity, personal interest, hobbies, flavors.
Over time people lose interest or abandon projects, then forks are born to keep them alive.
Or, some wonderful projects (like Ubuntu) start getting worse, and we are able to react and adjust by changing it (like Mint).
Mozilla advocacy employees were not advocating for privacy or free and open source. It was more social justice and representation.
Yep! People are so stupid that they hear a word, "advocacy", and automatically assume it means what they think in their heads...
Why can't people see through words? Words are empty and meaningless, like how politicians talk.
man i really wish flatpak worked for cli apps but then again the lack of aliases by default makes running flatpaks from the cli a pita
Just what the world needs another linux distro
UUID and hardware-IDs being shared is a non-starter.
I LOVE the idea of KDE OS. I'll give it a shot, or use Fedora KDE.
Mozilla, I think they had it coming. I hope they get their act together, and work on Firefox again.
Wow! sign me up for that kde distro. that's great news :)