I'd be interested to know if Catholic priests can identify holy water in a double blinded test. (I mean, of course they can't, but it would be funny watching them try)
"...because what you're feeling right now IS the thing that I am fighting against. That fear you're feeling right now, you know the answer, David...You know it's evil...but what you mean is you can't fuckin' say it because you're scared of the implication of it...Even if that monster is real, you don't owe it your allegiance and its sins far outweigh yours. And it has no fucking right to judge you or take away your humanity. You, David, are a better person than this God." BOOM. Forrest, you have a way with words. You come from a place of positivity and have facts to back you up. Hands down, the best person on this channel.
I was orphaned and adopted by a pastor and his wife who were Baptist missionaries in my country. I was abused throughout the 8 years that I lived under their roof.
I can absolutely understand Maureen. My father was an atheist, and an absolute monster. My mother was christian, and pretty much the only source of joy in the house. When I finally lost my faith, I cried for weeks... I know now, that part of the reason why I cried that much, was because I thought that I _wasn't allowed to do good things anymore._ That it would be impossible to be a good person, without god. That it would be impossible to find joy. Now I understand that my ability to be a good person is actually easier: because my morality is now based on well-being, consent, and respecting the autonomy of others; rather than arbitrary rules backed only by 'might makes right' arguments. I don't have to be like my dad, just because I'm an atheist. At all. In fact, I have been able to become even _more_ myself, and find even more joy, without the anxiousness that is natural when you think that a vengeful ghost is watching you every second of the day. 😅
@freakishuproar1168 Ha! Hey, uh thanks. But, no. 😅 No happy ending for me, technically. It's a. Whatchacallit? A 'pyrrhic victory', I think? See, the problem is, _I didn't wake up from my faith fast enough._ 😕 I spent my whole childhood under one abuser, then made decisions based on christianity in adulthood; and wound up stuck under the thumbs of _OTHER_ abusers by marrying in: the whole time thinking that 'god was guiding me'. Between abuse and deprivation and lack of proper development and sabotage, my life has been utterly **cratered.** I don't see much in the future for myself.... especially after the recent turns the world has taken, I'd consider it shortened... 🤷🏾♀️ But at least I can face the probable end of all this with some truth. I can face it as my full self. And I can make sure that, whatever I do, I'm standing on the correct side of history when it's done.... I couldn't say much of that before, back when I was blinded by dogma and tied up in knots and confusion.... So, I'll take it.
@freakishuproar1168 Hey, uh thanks. But, no. 😅 No happy ending for me, technically. It's a. Whatchacallit? A 'pyrrhic victory', I think? See, the problem is, _I didn't wake up from my faith fast enough._ 😕 I spent my whole childhood under one a8user, then made decisions based on christianity in adulthood; and wound up stuck under the thumbs of _OTHER_ a8users by marrying in: the whole time thinking that 'god was guiding me'. Between a8use and deprivation and lack of proper development and sabotage, my life has been utterly **cratered.** I don't see much in the future for myself.... especially after the recent turns the world has taken, I'd consider it shortened... 🤷🏾♀️ But at least I can face the probable end of all this with some truth. I can face it as my full self. And I can make sure that, whatever I do, I'm standing on the correct side of history when it's done.... I couldn't say much of that before, back when I was blinded by dogma and tied up in knots and confusion.... So, I'll take it.
I'm sorry for what you had to go through. However, do you actually think it was his atheism that made him that way? Because you've made it appear that way. And given the number of atheists who are not monsters, seems to counter, that statement.
There could be good reasons for voice changers. What they should do instead is ask, “Why are you using a voice changer?” and ban them unless the answer is something like, “I live in an authoritarian theocracy which may punish me for calling this show.”
@@Leith_Crowther If they were banned, it must be for a good reason. Or should we let all murderers and rapists out of prison because putting them in prison is what an authoritarian theocracy would do?
@@Leith_Crowther What's to stop Shana/Mark/David from just saying that though? Are you expecting the trolls with voice changers pretending to be other people to be honest about why they're using a voice changer?
@@SatansLeadGuitaristThe main thing that stops them is that they often don't think of a lie that would work on the spot. It's not like they have all seen this exact post and have an acceptable answer at the ready. They already get tripped up when asked for their preferred pronouns. It's amazing how quickly trolls break down when asked simple questions.
1:58:50 Idahoan here. Lived here my entire life. And you are correct about parents praying rather than taking their children to doctors. It's sickening.
I really like Maureen. She is very thoughtful and sounds so kind. Maureen seems like she would give the warmest hugs and have the best candy in her home ❤
Regarding Mark the troll: I thought voice changing software was more convincing these days, especially with A.I. powered engines. A voice changer is a huge troll red flag. They shouldn't have given him that much time.
@@mactallica9293 Yep. When I wrote the comment I hadn't gotten that far. The hosts should have dumped him too. Forrest's weakness is not being able to cut and run quickly on obvious trolls.
@@ScottJohnson-z5s Definitely agree there. Make the counter point, win the argument and move on from the guy. Very obvious the person wasn't giving answers or even trying
They always say: "God works in mysterious ways..." And then they say that they know what God wants... I ask: "How do you know what God wants if you don't know how God works?" And: "How do you know that God actually wants you to do what you are doing?"
Xeno. If you believe in God because we can't know anything for sure, then you should believe in unicorn also due to the same reason. Otherwise you're just special pleading God without any good reason.
Xeno actually admitted in previous calls that he got to this while "hitting the bowl on the toilet" so no wonder his argument is such asinine BS, bong hit theology is garbage
Xeno has always been in my top 5 boring callers, both on this show and that show that should not be named. I bet his favourite colour is beige. His horrified voice finding out he was completely forgettable was hilarious.
The mark call was hilarious. You can see the host trying so hard to make it a good conversation. I give you guys a lot of credit. I really do. Because that made me LMAO so hard
My gods, Forrest, that was some amazing work with David (CA). I want to share it with my Christian family, but I don’t know if I want to shake them THAT hard.
Mark's defense of "Oh, I didn't expect you guys would notice how bad my argument was" is, well, I'll be nice and say it's idiotic. Yeah, that's nicer than what I had in mind.
Xeno, we don't have to grapple with hard solipsism, It is a useless, unfalsifiable proposition that we don't have to think about for one minute. We just have to accept the reality that we have no choice but to live within.
I mean, you don’t have to do anything at the end of the day, but if you’re going to have a conversation about God and religion in general that touches all the bases then yes it’s going to contain a heavy dose of philosophy. I think what the caller was trying to get at, was if you remove all the things you cannot prove with 100% certainty, then that leads to some ultimate truth that leads to God. But I don’t wanna put words in his mouth.
I dont think thats fair. You can progress, you can regers, or you can stay in one place. Which is what being conservative should mean. Like conservation of things, locking them in time.
@@Favar1 yeah, but as far as i can see, american conservatives are very intent on trying to get the country as far back in time as they can. So, regressive is a good descriptor.
Shana: “I wasn’t raised in Christianity. I came to it on my own.” (2 minutes later) Shana: “I believe in Christianity because of my ancestors. It’s my heritage.” What a blatant liar! You can’t even satirize this stuff anymore! 😂
I too could tell that was eating him up inside. Xeno thinks that everyone else enjoys the sound of his voice as much as he does. He also fails to realise how monumentally boring he is as an entity.
I was a closet atheist for as long as I remember. I tried to believe in a god because authority figures were saying one existed. But no beliefs could stand up to a child's questions. Atheism is very freeing. No more threats of damnation or hell. No more guilt for being human. Seeing how wonderous the universe is on it's own. It was fantastic to finally be able to become my true self.
I know that the Line can’t control who calls in, but this was a perfect episode, all Christian theist callers, and great hosts; and good amount of time in total.
2:01:54 Forrest's discussion with David (CA) was beautiful and one of the all-time highlights of calls on this channel. Absolutely love it, keep it up. And wish you the best, David
Listening to how Forrest talked to David reminded me of the lye scene in Fight Club. David's mind kept trying to go to the thought stoppers, but Forrest kept bringing him back to focus on the lye. I hope that David keeps looking at that scar. I hope that David talks to others and sees how many of us have that scar.
Fantastic analogy. Not just because I love that movie. David needs to talk to more atheists like Forrest. If he keeps it up he will be an atheist soon.
Forrest! Thank you! I no longer need to fear vampires!! Reminds of Constantine when he slows the demons down by blessing the water in the fire sprinklers
David - both my wife and I are life long atheists, never prayed in our lives, been married 45 years and lived together for 3 years before that. Seen lots of religious folk get divorced over the years. How do you explain that?
I love the call with the second David, from CA. The way Forrest walked him through it with love and compassion but without giving an inch, was perfection. That was essentially the argument that I heard from Forrest that finally made me admit there is no good reason to believe in God. Both because there's no reasonable evidence, and because there's no worth in the belief. God isn't good. And the beliefs do cause harm. And the only thing that was holding me back was fear. Fear of going to hell. And then I also realized that it didn't even matter. There was no added danger to admitting it out loud because if God is real, then he knows my heart of hearts, so he already knows my doubts, and the fact that I believe the stories in the bible are evil and that he isn't good. Believe that isn't a choice, and denying it to myself and out loud wouldn't keep an all knowing being from knowing that's how I feel and hell send me to hell regardless. Once I accepted that, it was like removing the thought stopper. I could finally actually think about it and critically analyze all the claims and realize I was afraid of bs. I only believed it because ppl I trusted told me to believe it. And they believe it because they were told to. And none of it makes sense, but realizing that people had reason to use it to manipulate others makes a lot of sense.
Xeno thinks there is a god because we can't know anything 100%. Assuming that's because a god controls reality, why not also believe in fairies, wizards or witches?
its such a funny reason as we can't "prove" there is a god, which leads us back to not knowing everything 100%, just because they want to pretend they know doesn't mean they do, which is proven by the countless false predictions from theist throughout the ages
Love John and Forrest together..Some rollercoaster this episode was.. great chat with the caller at the beginning, some real warmth from the hosts. ..then the Catholic who got a rant from Forrest, and John made some awesome points.. they both made me laugh out loud loads of times.. but my fave line was from Forrest... "I'm a Biologist.. I want to know what farts are made of..not what they smell like" Put it on a T-Shirt Forrest and I'll buy it
He’s the worst. Absolutely unable to think logically at all. No understanding about why what Forrest is asking what he’s asking and no clue that he’s making a terrible argument.
As to the empathy for conservatives remember most of them appear to be Christian. Christians are supposed to believe the saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Take them at their word and treat them the way they treated liberals.
The rant from 49:39-51:37 Is why I love Forrest. That uh, 'study' David was talking about are articles on christian websites about christian couples staying together if they pray together. 1/1500 get divorced who pray together. Basically it's just if you go to bed together or have some time together before work engaging in things that make you feel fulfilled, you're more likely to stay together. Nothing really scientific about it, that's just kind of obvious. Bonding moments make your relationship stronger. That's it.
And people who pray daily are more likely apart of religious communities, in which divorce can be a lot more taboo and have a lot more consequences in terms of social ostracisation, support, etc. Religious focused therapy will often focus on upholding the religious ideals over safety and well being.
That's a really good point. Also, even if we pretend for a moment that 100% of Christian spouses remain together and 100% of non-Christians get a divorce, this says absolutely nothing about the existence of a god.
The riff on holy water reminds me of stories I heard about theologically arguments in medieval Europe about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I'm pretty sure at least 2 of these "different" callers were the same person based on their way of responding to questions with one-word answers that don't actually answer the question
Xeno is painful to listen to, he called a bunch a few years ago, and accused Matt of narcissism, when in fact if you listen to him he himself is clearly a narcissist and that is just projection
I found the place that David got is claim "99% of couples who pray together never get divorced" Back in a 2001 Southern Baptist Convention poll of Christian couples who do pray together regularly, the divorce rate was under 1%. So David is talking utter bollocks.
Maureen is so real. I totally understand her fear and trepidation with deconstruction and trying to find meaning and hope in new places. I hope shes doing alright. Also Im pretty sure everyone has a crush on Forrest, hes like the pop idol for this whole channel 💙✨ Edit: I GOT TO THE PART ABOUT HOLY WATER AND HAD TO GET UP AND SCREAM FOR A MINUTE, OH MY GOD STOOOOOOOOOOP 💀💀💀💀
We have a catholic cardinal who abused his nephew for over 40 years. He was convicted for this?!?! He is now in some monastery in France praying some holy marys till the end of his days. Disgusting. Belgium.
Forrest, I will absolutely go as far down that road with you as you want. I am of course, an old time D&D player from waa-a-a-ay back in the day and an atheist, but I've written a LOT of D&D-esque mythology and related content. I am READY for this conversation.
Lmao omg the irony with Xeno complaining that, “Forrest totally doesn’t get this,” AFTER Forrest asked him the same question at least three times super clearly and it wasn’t answered each time because it’s obvious that Xeno doesn’t understand the question. It’s so funny when people like Xeno honestly think that they’re intelligent and then act as if they’re more intelligent than someone like Forrest.
People often dream of dead friends and relatives. Therefore, it is no surprise that they might get the idea that there is another world where they are still alive. Now that we know that dreams are just jumbled reruns, that door should be closed.
If you watched The Lost Boys, then you know that you can shoot holy water from squirt guns to explode vampires. (I'm not very deep in the show. No idea what caused you to comment, but you made me laugh and I had to think of other media stuff involving holy water.)
Got to the relevant bit. Very concerned Forrest and I both thought about vampires. Forrest only got away with this insane rant about holy water because Jimmy wasn't there to put him back in his place. 😂 Also busting into Dracula.... I guess Forrest is a heebie-jeebies-phile.
Xeno, c'mon man. They ask you to provide your support for your belief in a deity and you respond by saying that we can't know things about reality with absolute certainty and maybe solipsism is real, therefore, god.... 🤦♂. I don't know, therefore, god. lolll wtf. That's why Forrest kept asking why not believe in anything else? Because that's not a point that is specific to god. It doesn't, whatsoever, support your case for a god to exist, because you should also believe in a Toothbunny. There's xero logical DISTINCTION provided by such a line of argumentation. It is literally meaningless.
He’s been doing that for years. Claiming he “just wants to make progress“, but that never includes him learning or conceding anything. He wants the hosts to agree with his delusion of confirming the unconfirmable deistic god, which of course will never happen. So, het gets emotional, blames and insults the hosts for being too stupid and then the calls ends. And after a couple of tries he repeats it with new hosts.
FORREST!!! The holy water/vampire theory is GENIUS OMG man I love you for saying that 🤣🤣🤣 What a delicious rabbit hole Okay AND you're also an incredible teacher ✨🤌
anyone whose actually opened a bible and attempted to read it the normal way a book is read instantly realized the the mockery of words on printed page is what they are infact reading.. no other book is used by just randomly quoting lines and just stacking them together
I was so ready for Maureen to try to lead in to some kind of weird guilt trip argument with her first question so when she instead just got genuinely vulnerable and sincere it kind of blew me away. Hope you’re doing well Maureen, good luck!
Mark: The genesis account lines up perfectly with what science tells us of the early cosmos. Also Mark: Also there was another hidden sun that predates our planet and vanished without a trace once our sun was formed.
Shana: "That's the kind of thing atheists say on Reddit." (In response to Catholic Priest abuse) Also Shana: "The crusades were defensive." "I don't have a real problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, baseless and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept." - anyone who actually cares about verifiable realit
Raised Catholic with a mother who wasn’t. We were told to NEVER touch that holy water- “You KNOW they don’t wash their hands”. She was the original “you can’t eat at everybody’s house” kind of Mom. So, no, it’s no longer holy water. 😂
Re: Xeno, the best presentation I have seen for “What is Truth” is from Philosophy Engineered! With the same video title. He also has great videos for “What is Logic” and “ What is Free Will”.
1:49:15 It's highly suspect that this caller mainly answered in one or two words. It makes sense that he would answer that way if he has a voice changer.
Denialism is all that theists have left to offer. Some deny what their own book says. Some deny that other Christians are Christian. Extreme denialists, such as creationists, deny reality itself because reality upsets them so much.
Definitely a troll with a voice modulator but I don't think its Jackie. They didn't say "meta truth" or "sub straight" or name drop any philosophers and I don't think he's physically capable of having a conversation without doing at least one of those.
Host, please stop allowing trolls in with the voice changers. It's impossible to understand what they are saying and what they are saying isn't worth to listen too.
48:16 - As a holder of a bachelor in chemistry AND a bachelor of chemical engineering, this question is now making me flip and I might just do a Masters+PhD deep dive in this ... I'm also going to make a delve into carbonating the Holy water and adding Mentos in and make an anti-vampire water canon. I mean, does adding CO2 gas causes the same effect as Forrest discussed or is it just limited to the liquid form of matter? Maybe Holy ice even? No wait, that's just melting water, ok 1 permutation down!
Alright, i may not always agree with Matt's tirades but listening to Xeno gave me a new appreciation for them. Kudos for staying mostly calm through that and deciding to end it when they refused to participate.
For catholism, there is a certain max ratio you can dilute holy water before it becomes regular water. I forget the canon amount but you can basically get infinite holy water by continually not going over that ratio. My dad had a friends whose mom got a jug "blessed" by a pope and that's how they basically get infinite holy water that's of a pope level blessing. If you use enough holy water w/out that it getting diluted over that ratio, yes, you can have a holy martini.
The second David call made all the other nonsense worth it. That was some fantastic good cop/bad cop. Well done Forrest and GE 👏 and keep pushing forward David!
Mark, I am a triplet with an identical brother and sister. My brother and I are the best of friends, envy was never strong between us, fighting was rare. I have other brothers and the last think I’d wish for us pain death or suffering for them. Even when my older bro picked on us or we’d get in a fight/ argument. I’ve met tons of twins along the way and some one boasted to my twin bro and I about how much his brother and him had fought. It was disgusting, have you ever tried to steal your brothers wife or run him over with a car? I thought hell fucking no.
God seemed to invent discord in families, not peace. He constantly favors one sibling over the other and comes up with rules to perpetuate it. To the point that your own child will actually be regarded as your brothers’ (?) if you marry and have said child with your dead brother’s wife (another stupid thing).
Great host duo, I loved it!! I wish everyone a beautiful new week
Thank you Faia! I'm also a bit in love with Forrest. ❤
It's the timestamp person! Great to see you still going at it, love seeing your comment every week :3
seeing your comment do you think christianophobia is a thing?
Thanks, Faia!
This is the most helpful call listing on any channel in my opinion. Nice one! We all appreciate it. 👍
The Holy Water Rant was the best thing I have heard in a longtime.
Was very entertained.
I'd be interested to know if Catholic priests can identify holy water in a double blinded test. (I mean, of course they can't, but it would be funny watching them try)
I doubt it will but I really hope it gets clipped and posted
I believe the church's stance is that the priest can top off holy water with tap water as long as they keep the ratio at more than 50% holy water.
Listening to these calls, I can see how Trump was voted back into power.
They are double cultists.
Forrest casually explaining why there are no more vampires anymore.
"...because what you're feeling right now IS the thing that I am fighting against. That fear you're feeling right now, you know the answer, David...You know it's evil...but what you mean is you can't fuckin' say it because you're scared of the implication of it...Even if that monster is real, you don't owe it your allegiance and its sins far outweigh yours. And it has no fucking right to judge you or take away your humanity. You, David, are a better person than this God."
BOOM. Forrest, you have a way with words. You come from a place of positivity and have facts to back you up. Hands down, the best person on this channel.
I was orphaned and adopted by a pastor and his wife who were Baptist missionaries in my country. I was abused throughout the 8 years that I lived under their roof.
I’m sorry you had to go through that ! But I’m glad you got away from it
3:34:24 i am a veteran who is bi and my partner is an immigrant. I gladly cut ties with anyone who voted for Trump which included most of my family
I did the same thing ....back during the Bush administration
I live in a state where Trump could never win, not even close. I still voted, for Harris, for people like you, to show that we support you.
There was no one else to vote for, they are all controlled puppets anyway, the illusion of democracy.
There was no one else to vote for, although they are all controlled puppets anyway so it doesn't matter.
that sounds like a tough hand to be dealt in a country that voted him in.
I frigging love Maureen. Good luck with stuff, Maureen!
It's amazing to follow her way out off religion ❤
I can absolutely understand Maureen.
My father was an atheist, and an absolute monster.
My mother was christian, and pretty much the only source of joy in the house.
When I finally lost my faith, I cried for weeks...
I know now, that part of the reason why I cried that much, was because I thought that I _wasn't allowed to do good things anymore._
That it would be impossible to be a good person, without god.
That it would be impossible to find joy.
Now I understand that my ability to be a good person is actually easier: because my morality is now based on well-being, consent, and respecting the autonomy of others; rather than arbitrary rules backed only by 'might makes right' arguments.
I don't have to be like my dad, just because I'm an atheist.
At all.
In fact, I have been able to become even _more_ myself, and find even more joy, without the anxiousness that is natural when you think that a vengeful ghost is watching you every second of the day. 😅
Thanks for sharing your story OP, as harrowing as it was. Had a happier ending from the sounds of things :D Stay safe and sane!
@freakishuproar1168 Ha! Hey, uh thanks. But, no. 😅 No happy ending for me, technically.
It's a. Whatchacallit?
A 'pyrrhic victory', I think?
See, the problem is, _I didn't wake up from my faith fast enough._ 😕
I spent my whole childhood under one abuser, then made decisions based on christianity in adulthood; and wound up stuck under the thumbs of _OTHER_ abusers by marrying in: the whole time thinking that 'god was guiding me'.
Between abuse and deprivation and lack of proper development and sabotage, my life has been utterly **cratered.**
I don't see much in the future for myself.... especially after the recent turns the world has taken, I'd consider it shortened...
🤷🏾♀️ But at least I can face the probable end of all this with some truth.
I can face it as my full self.
And I can make sure that, whatever I do, I'm standing on the correct side of history when it's done....
I couldn't say much of that before, back when I was blinded by dogma and tied up in knots and confusion.... So, I'll take it.
@freakishuproar1168 Hey, uh thanks. But, no. 😅 No happy ending for me, technically.
It's a. Whatchacallit?
A 'pyrrhic victory', I think?
See, the problem is, _I didn't wake up from my faith fast enough._ 😕
I spent my whole childhood under one a8user, then made decisions based on christianity in adulthood; and wound up stuck under the thumbs of _OTHER_ a8users by marrying in: the whole time thinking that 'god was guiding me'.
Between a8use and deprivation and lack of proper development and sabotage, my life has been utterly **cratered.**
I don't see much in the future for myself.... especially after the recent turns the world has taken, I'd consider it shortened...
🤷🏾♀️ But at least I can face the probable end of all this with some truth.
I can face it as my full self.
And I can make sure that, whatever I do, I'm standing on the correct side of history when it's done....
I couldn't say much of that before, back when I was blinded by dogma and tied up in knots and confusion....
So, I'll take it.
It's never easy to escape the prisons that our parents construct around us. Congratulations on finding a way out.
I'm sorry for what you had to go through. However, do you actually think it was his atheism that made him that way? Because you've made it appear that way.
And given the number of atheists who are not monsters, seems to counter, that statement.
Ban all callers w voice modulators
There could be good reasons for voice changers. What they should do instead is ask, “Why are you using a voice changer?” and ban them unless the answer is something like, “I live in an authoritarian theocracy which may punish me for calling this show.”
@@Leith_Crowther If they were banned, it must be for a good reason. Or should we let all murderers and rapists out of prison because putting them in prison is what an authoritarian theocracy would do?
At least when it's a suspected repeat troll using a voice changer. When Arden mentioned it I was surprised they kept him on
@@Leith_Crowther What's to stop Shana/Mark/David from just saying that though? Are you expecting the trolls with voice changers pretending to be other people to be honest about why they're using a voice changer?
@@SatansLeadGuitaristThe main thing that stops them is that they often don't think of a lie that would work on the spot. It's not like they have all seen this exact post and have an acceptable answer at the ready. They already get tripped up when asked for their preferred pronouns. It's amazing how quickly trolls break down when asked simple questions.
1:58:50 Idahoan here. Lived here my entire life. And you are correct about parents praying rather than taking their children to doctors. It's sickening.
I really like Maureen. She is very thoughtful and sounds so kind. Maureen seems like she would give the warmest hugs and have the best candy in her home ❤
Yes! What a lovely person!
Regarding Mark the troll: I thought voice changing software was more convincing these days, especially with A.I. powered engines. A voice changer is a huge troll red flag. They shouldn't have given him that much time.
was easy to see he was a troll.......wasnt a good one...i spotted him in the first sentence
wonder if he knows Mark and Shana
He was definitely David as well
@@mactallica9293 Yep. When I wrote the comment I hadn't gotten that far. The hosts should have dumped him too. Forrest's weakness is not being able to cut and run quickly on obvious trolls.
@@ScottJohnson-z5s Definitely agree there. Make the counter point, win the argument and move on from the guy.
Very obvious the person wasn't giving answers or even trying
When i woke up i was just pissed that i was lied to for 18 yrs.
Surprisingly common reaction, not small lies, big impact.
"Nuh-uh" -- Killer argument.
XD
Uh huh!!!!!! 😂
They always say: "God works in mysterious ways..."
And then they say that they know what God wants...
I ask: "How do you know what God wants if you don't know how God works?"
And: "How do you know that God actually wants you to do what you are doing?"
Xeno. If you believe in God because we can't know anything for sure, then you should believe in unicorn also due to the same reason. Otherwise you're just special pleading God without any good reason.
And literally anything I could think up, after I throw it out as an option.
@joemiller7082 exactly
he does not care for reason only for excuses, and of course he wont apply that excuse on the things he does not believe, why would he ?
Xeno actually admitted in previous calls that he got to this while "hitting the bowl on the toilet" so no wonder his argument is such asinine BS, bong hit theology is garbage
Xeno has always been in my top 5 boring callers, both on this show and that show that should not be named.
I bet his favourite colour is beige.
His horrified voice finding out he was completely forgettable was hilarious.
The mark call was hilarious. You can see the host trying so hard to make it a good conversation. I give you guys a lot of credit. I really do. Because that made me LMAO so hard
My gods, Forrest, that was some amazing work with David (CA). I want to share it with my Christian family, but I don’t know if I want to shake them THAT hard.
Spotlight is a fucking AMAZING movie. Everyone should see it. EVERYONE!
Mark's defense of "Oh, I didn't expect you guys would notice how bad my argument was" is, well, I'll be nice and say it's idiotic.
Yeah, that's nicer than what I had in mind.
2:41:36 Forrest was on 🔥🔥 here! Literal chills from this impassioned speech! Total mic drop badassery 🎤
@@tylerdurden783 Watching him deal with callers with more intelligence makes me think that he would be a good special education teacher.
"The skull tells you what's up". 😂😂😂😂 Just hearing Forrest say that made me laugh so hard!
Xeno, we don't have to grapple with hard solipsism, It is a useless, unfalsifiable proposition that we don't have to think about for one minute.
We just have to accept the reality that we have no choice but to live within.
I mean, you don’t have to do anything at the end of the day, but if you’re going to have a conversation about God and religion in general that touches all the bases then yes it’s going to contain a heavy dose of philosophy.
I think what the caller was trying to get at, was if you remove all the things you cannot prove with 100% certainty, then that leads to some ultimate truth that leads to God. But I don’t wanna put words in his mouth.
@etaylor8028 and there is no need to talk about hard solipsism, let alone grapple with it. It adds nothing to any conversation.
@@etaylor8028 which is a ridiculous argument.
@@etaylor8028 BS
@@etaylor8028 yeah, it's an asinine thing to say
Another thought provoking show thanks to hosts and chat 🎉
“Conservative “ is a misnomer, we have progressive and regressive
I dont think thats fair. You can progress, you can regers, or you can stay in one place. Which is what being conservative should mean. Like conservation of things, locking them in time.
@@Favar1 yeah, but as far as i can see, american conservatives are very intent on trying to get the country as far back in time as they can. So, regressive is a good descriptor.
Yes, regressive is especially apt now. They don’t want to ‘change’ is true, but from 1900.
@@Favar1Most conservatives use conservative to mean "I love God and I have family values", with 'white is right' undertones.
Shana: “I wasn’t raised in Christianity. I came to it on my own.”
(2 minutes later)
Shana: “I believe in Christianity because of my ancestors. It’s my heritage.”
What a blatant liar! You can’t even satirize this stuff anymore! 😂
Exactly! It doesn't ever follow. Also, why does Shana disregard her many more ancestors that existed before Christianity if ancestors matter so much?
Troll caller using a voice changer
Xeno must be so angry that forrest does not remember him. Dude asked 4 different times about it
Crypto bro is really trying to be relevant after losing everything in NFTs.
I too could tell that was eating him up inside. Xeno thinks that everyone else enjoys the sound of his voice as much as he does. He also fails to realise how monumentally boring he is as an entity.
I've forgotten him already. The dude's so overly emotional.
Xeno has been pwned on his garbage many times in the past. He hasn't learned, and it is now evident he cannot learn.
OMG! Forrest's rant about holy water was hilarious!!! 😂
I was a closet atheist for as long as I remember. I tried to believe in a god because authority figures were saying one existed. But no beliefs could stand up to a child's questions. Atheism is very freeing. No more threats of damnation or hell. No more guilt for being human. Seeing how wonderous the universe is on it's own. It was fantastic to finally be able to become my true self.
I know that the Line can’t control who calls in, but this was a perfect episode, all Christian theist callers, and great hosts; and good amount of time in total.
@@VanHalenIsolated Not really. Three of the callers were the same person.
2:01:54 Forrest's discussion with David (CA) was beautiful and one of the all-time highlights of calls on this channel. Absolutely love it, keep it up. And wish you the best, David
Listening to how Forrest talked to David reminded me of the lye scene in Fight Club. David's mind kept trying to go to the thought stoppers, but Forrest kept bringing him back to focus on the lye.
I hope that David keeps looking at that scar. I hope that David talks to others and sees how many of us have that scar.
Fantastic analogy. Not just because I love that movie. David needs to talk to more atheists like Forrest. If he keeps it up he will be an atheist soon.
Forrest! Thank you! I no longer need to fear vampires!! Reminds of Constantine when he slows the demons down by blessing the water in the fire sprinklers
Mark was such a low effort troll. It's kinda disappointing they gave him a whole half hour of attention.
His voice changer was obvious
He's a repeat caller. Always sounds this boring. My only guess is that he's chasing dopamine and is trying to intentionally make theists look bad.
So obviously an atheist troll, calling in to,try to make theists look foolish.
Forest has a tendency to indulge these trolls way longer then he should.
I thought everyone was talking about Shana. The "shana" call was the "Harper" voice. Another regular
David - both my wife and I are life long atheists, never prayed in our lives, been married 45 years and lived together for 3 years before that. Seen lots of religious folk get divorced over the years. How do you explain that?
Must be a miracle!! 😂🤣😂🤣🤪
Well, secretly, you really do believe, you're just lying to yourselves....or some other such drivel.
@@chetsavage2536
Yeah...right...😂
I love the call with the second David, from CA. The way Forrest walked him through it with love and compassion but without giving an inch, was perfection. That was essentially the argument that I heard from Forrest that finally made me admit there is no good reason to believe in God. Both because there's no reasonable evidence, and because there's no worth in the belief. God isn't good. And the beliefs do cause harm. And the only thing that was holding me back was fear. Fear of going to hell.
And then I also realized that it didn't even matter. There was no added danger to admitting it out loud because if God is real, then he knows my heart of hearts, so he already knows my doubts, and the fact that I believe the stories in the bible are evil and that he isn't good. Believe that isn't a choice, and denying it to myself and out loud wouldn't keep an all knowing being from knowing that's how I feel and hell send me to hell regardless. Once I accepted that, it was like removing the thought stopper. I could finally actually think about it and critically analyze all the claims and realize I was afraid of bs. I only believed it because ppl I trusted told me to believe it. And they believe it because they were told to. And none of it makes sense, but realizing that people had reason to use it to manipulate others makes a lot of sense.
"... and he fingers Jesus a whole bunch...". Man I love Forrest. Hilarious 😂
Xeno thinks there is a god because we can't know anything 100%. Assuming that's because a god controls reality, why not also believe in fairies, wizards or witches?
And literally everything anyone could think up and say.
its such a funny reason as we can't "prove" there is a god, which leads us back to not knowing everything 100%, just because they want to pretend they know doesn't mean they do, which is proven by the countless false predictions from theist throughout the ages
Love John and Forrest together..Some rollercoaster this episode was.. great chat with the caller at the beginning, some real warmth from the hosts. ..then the Catholic who got a rant from Forrest, and John made some awesome points.. they both made me laugh out loud loads of times.. but my fave line was from Forrest... "I'm a Biologist.. I want to know what farts are made of..not what they smell like" Put it on a T-Shirt Forrest and I'll buy it
I believe they’re made by gut microbes.
Is anyone else picking up on the extraordinary levels of gulibility so many many believers demonstrate??
Xeno sucks.
He’s the worst. Absolutely unable to think logically at all. No understanding about why what Forrest is asking what he’s asking and no clue that he’s making a terrible argument.
…….always has , for about ten fuckin years. Thankfully he’s a long time between drinks
As to the empathy for conservatives remember most of them appear to be Christian. Christians are supposed to believe the saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Take them at their word and treat them the way they treated liberals.
Most of the Conservatives I know aren't interested in gods or theism
I'm so glad Maureen called in again. Hang in there ❤
The rant from 49:39-51:37 Is why I love Forrest.
That uh, 'study' David was talking about are articles on christian websites about christian couples staying together if they pray together. 1/1500 get divorced who pray together. Basically it's just if you go to bed together or have some time together before work engaging in things that make you feel fulfilled, you're more likely to stay together. Nothing really scientific about it, that's just kind of obvious. Bonding moments make your relationship stronger. That's it.
And people who pray daily are more likely apart of religious communities, in which divorce can be a lot more taboo and have a lot more consequences in terms of social ostracisation, support, etc. Religious focused therapy will often focus on upholding the religious ideals over safety and well being.
@@carpevinum8645- And the wife is typically told to endure to preserve the marriage in Christian counseling.
That's a really good point. Also, even if we pretend for a moment that 100% of Christian spouses remain together and 100% of non-Christians get a divorce, this says absolutely nothing about the existence of a god.
The riff on holy water reminds me of stories I heard about theologically arguments in medieval Europe about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I'm pretty sure at least 2 of these "different" callers were the same person based on their way of responding to questions with one-word answers that don't actually answer the question
And had a voice changer. In the case of "Mark" and "David" he didn't even bother to use a different voice.
Tldr for anyone not wanting to listen to Xenos stupidity.
"Hard solipsism, therefore god."
Or "We can't know anything, therefore I know something".
I tried to be a solipsist but couldn't prove that I exist
We literally ARE brains in vats. It's just that the vat has a body connected to it.
@@troybutler5627 I take offense to that. My body is a meat suit not a vat thank you very much.
Flesh bag would also be acceptable.
Mark had to be a troll and also Xeno is an absolute tool. Forrest handled him so well.
He’s totally useless.
Nah, Mark just had the IQ of a dead gecko.
mark was 100% a troll...you could hear giggling..
Xeno is painful to listen to, he called a bunch a few years ago, and accused Matt of narcissism, when in fact if you listen to him he himself is clearly a narcissist and that is just projection
They should stop taking Xeno’s calls all together. A waste of everything.
I found the place that David got is claim "99% of couples who pray together never get divorced"
Back in a 2001 Southern Baptist Convention poll of Christian couples who do pray together regularly, the divorce rate was under 1%.
So David is talking utter bollocks.
Yeah I found that too, AND it was a link on REDDIT lol
Maureen is so real. I totally understand her fear and trepidation with deconstruction and trying to find meaning and hope in new places. I hope shes doing alright. Also Im pretty sure everyone has a crush on Forrest, hes like the pop idol for this whole channel 💙✨
Edit: I GOT TO THE PART ABOUT HOLY WATER AND HAD TO GET UP AND SCREAM FOR A MINUTE, OH MY GOD STOOOOOOOOOOP 💀💀💀💀
Shana, for the record, there are millions of Italians who don't believe in a god.
We have a catholic cardinal who abused his nephew for over 40 years. He was convicted for this?!?! He is now in some monastery in France praying some holy marys till the end of his days. Disgusting.
Belgium.
the majority of italians, in fact.
Forrest, I will absolutely go as far down that road with you as you want.
I am of course, an old time D&D player from waa-a-a-ay back in the day and an atheist, but I've written a LOT of D&D-esque mythology and related content. I am READY for this conversation.
Lmao omg the irony with Xeno complaining that, “Forrest totally doesn’t get this,” AFTER Forrest asked him the same question at least three times super clearly and it wasn’t answered each time because it’s obvious that Xeno doesn’t understand the question. It’s so funny when people like Xeno honestly think that they’re intelligent and then act as if they’re more intelligent than someone like Forrest.
Wonderful music reference. "It's driven me before and it seems to be the way that everyone else gets around". One of my go-to car singalong songs.
People often dream of dead friends and relatives. Therefore, it is no surprise that they might get the idea that there is another world where they are still alive. Now that we know that dreams are just jumbled reruns, that door should be closed.
Exactly 😊
If you've ever played rogue or nethack, dipping water in holy water makes all the regular water holy water for sure
If you watched The Lost Boys, then you know that you can shoot holy water from squirt guns to explode vampires.
(I'm not very deep in the show. No idea what caused you to comment, but you made me laugh and I had to think of other media stuff involving holy water.)
Got to the relevant bit. Very concerned Forrest and I both thought about vampires. Forrest only got away with this insane rant about holy water because Jimmy wasn't there to put him back in his place. 😂
Also busting into Dracula.... I guess Forrest is a heebie-jeebies-phile.
In Constantine the movie - they dump a cross in a tank of water - so just dump a cross in the sea - job done
Ice-nine 😂
humans evolved and progressed and survived by working together, each does their part to survive alltogether. That is the hill i would die on
Maureen is wonderful, and I'm glad the truth about Forrest has finally come out! He's an adorable charmer! Love the chemistry between y'all
Xeno, c'mon man. They ask you to provide your support for your belief in a deity and you respond by saying that we can't know things about reality with absolute certainty and maybe solipsism is real, therefore, god.... 🤦♂. I don't know, therefore, god. lolll wtf. That's why Forrest kept asking why not believe in anything else? Because that's not a point that is specific to god. It doesn't, whatsoever, support your case for a god to exist, because you should also believe in a Toothbunny. There's xero logical DISTINCTION provided by such a line of argumentation. It is literally meaningless.
He’s been doing that for years. Claiming he “just wants to make progress“, but that never includes him learning or conceding anything. He wants the hosts to agree with his delusion of confirming the unconfirmable deistic god, which of course will never happen. So, het gets emotional, blames and insults the hosts for being too stupid and then the calls ends. And after a couple of tries he repeats it with new hosts.
@@TypographyGuru Haha oh geez.... Too bad that there's little correlation between intelligence and rationality.
"Shana" is using a voice changer
I think it’s Jackie.
Yeah, I've seen enough of those Scam Bait videos to recognize that "old lady" filter from a mile away.
“she” has done this before.
@@Mmmmilonah Jackie would talk way more, whoever this is is much too succinct to be Jackie
It's never Jackie. It's someone else and it's painfully obvious right away evety time
Callers through David strongly suggest the talking donkey was a prophecy that future Christians would talk from their asses.
FORREST!!! The holy water/vampire theory is GENIUS OMG man I love you for saying that 🤣🤣🤣 What a delicious rabbit hole
Okay AND you're also an incredible teacher ✨🤌
love the religious commercials that are on this show. slipping thru my ad blocker every once in a while.
Forrest & John are the superduo of hosts!
These hosts were absolutely on fire in this episode.
If Shana truly wants to follow Italian tradition, she should turn to the gods of Rome. 😤👏🏾✨ Time to get to know Jupiter and Juno!
I loved the call with David he’s a good dude
We’re rooting for you second David!
anyone whose actually opened a bible and attempted to read it the normal way a book is read instantly realized the the mockery of words on printed page is what they are infact reading.. no other book is used by just randomly quoting lines and just stacking them together
Great explanations of why we no longer have vampires!! Forrest is a mythological genius.
It's starting to sound like, not all believers are crazy but all crazies are believers. 30:07
I was so ready for Maureen to try to lead in to some kind of weird guilt trip argument with her first question so when she instead just got genuinely vulnerable and sincere it kind of blew me away. Hope you’re doing well Maureen, good luck!
Mark: The genesis account lines up perfectly with what science tells us of the early cosmos.
Also Mark: Also there was another hidden sun that predates our planet and vanished without a trace once our sun was formed.
Shana: "That's the kind of thing atheists say on Reddit." (In response to Catholic Priest abuse)
Also Shana: "The crusades were defensive."
"I don't have a real problem with ignorance. We are all ignorant about a variety of subjects we are not currently aware of. The real problem is when that ignorance is wilful, baseless and used as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with you, or anyone who has the nerve to present facts you don't want to accept."
- anyone who actually cares about verifiable realit
Xeno won't answer a simple question. "You don't get it"
Thank you
Raised Catholic with a mother who wasn’t. We were told to NEVER touch that holy water- “You KNOW they don’t wash their hands”. She was the original “you can’t eat at everybody’s house” kind of Mom.
So, no, it’s no longer holy water. 😂
Forrest’s dialogue is sometimes fucking poetic 🥰
FORREST HAS ALL THE RIZZ😂😂😂
David's call was so dammed good! The 2nd caller David. Well worth a second watch too.
I don’t know why I don’t find this condescending… but it delights me when John laughs at a caller. It’s often completely appropriate. Get better, GE!
And it lightened the tension- I started laughing, too.
Re: Xeno, the best presentation I have seen for “What is Truth” is from Philosophy Engineered! With the same video title. He also has great videos for “What is Logic” and “ What is Free Will”.
Great show. Some incredibly irritating callers and trolls, but the hosts were on fire. ❤
1:49:15
It's highly suspect that this caller mainly answered in one or two words.
It makes sense that he would answer that way if he has a voice changer.
My favorite moment was when he mentioned Muhammed in the bible.
Denialism is all that theists have left to offer.
Some deny what their own book says.
Some deny that other Christians are Christian.
Extreme denialists, such as creationists, deny reality itself because reality upsets them so much.
Xeno you are special pleading your god(creator) into existence
Was Shana just Jackie with a voice changer?
That’s what I thought was going on. lol. I’m glad I wasn’t alone.
It's not Jackie, but it's a regular voice changer
It's definitely a voice modulator
I skip those calls
Definitely a troll with a voice modulator but I don't think its Jackie. They didn't say "meta truth" or "sub straight" or name drop any philosophers and I don't think he's physically capable of having a conversation without doing at least one of those.
Host, please stop allowing trolls in with the voice changers. It's impossible to understand what they are saying and what they are saying isn't worth to listen too.
48:16 - As a holder of a bachelor in chemistry AND a bachelor of chemical engineering, this question is now making me flip and I might just do a Masters+PhD deep dive in this ... I'm also going to make a delve into carbonating the Holy water and adding Mentos in and make an anti-vampire water canon. I mean, does adding CO2 gas causes the same effect as Forrest discussed or is it just limited to the liquid form of matter? Maybe Holy ice even? No wait, that's just melting water, ok 1 permutation down!
I forgot i used to dab with holy water and believed it for 18 yrs. What an idiot i was.
We need more callers like Maureen and the second David those were some genuine well balanced conversations
FINALLY SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT LAST CHANCE TO SEE! theres an audiobook of that read by Douglas Adams who wrote most of it
Alright, i may not always agree with Matt's tirades but listening to Xeno gave me a new appreciation for them.
Kudos for staying mostly calm through that and deciding to end it when they refused to participate.
I'm glad there are people who understand why I have absolutely no time for conservatives now.
For catholism, there is a certain max ratio you can dilute holy water before it becomes regular water. I forget the canon amount but you can basically get infinite holy water by continually not going over that ratio. My dad had a friends whose mom got a jug "blessed" by a pope and that's how they basically get infinite holy water that's of a pope level blessing. If you use enough holy water w/out that it getting diluted over that ratio, yes, you can have a holy martini.
The second David call made all the other nonsense worth it. That was some fantastic good cop/bad cop. Well done Forrest and GE 👏 and keep pushing forward David!
Forrest is good people ❤
Mark, I am a triplet with an identical brother and sister. My brother and I are the best of friends, envy was never strong between us, fighting was rare. I have other brothers and the last think I’d wish for us pain death or suffering for them. Even when my older bro picked on us or we’d get in a fight/ argument. I’ve met tons of twins along the way and some one boasted to my twin bro and I about how much his brother and him had fought. It was disgusting, have you ever tried to steal your brothers wife or run him over with a car? I thought hell fucking no.
God seemed to invent discord in families, not peace. He constantly favors one sibling over the other and comes up with rules to perpetuate it. To the point that your own child will actually be regarded as your brothers’ (?) if you marry and have said child with your dead brother’s wife (another stupid thing).