@P3dro 2486, Not always. Usamah ibn Munquidh wrote this account of him giving a couched lance charge; "He bent sideways so much that his head reached his stirrup, his shield and lance fell off his hand, and his helmet off his head...he then resumed his position, erect in the saddle. Having had linked mail under his tunic, my lance did not wound him." Thankfully it didn't, since the man he had attempted to kill turned out to be an ally. Though another account about Usamah struck a knight named Philip with his lance, and a companion of Philip came to the Saracen camp to see "... the horseman who struck Philip the knight, for verily the Franks have all been astounded on account of that blow which pierced two layers of links [back and front] in the knight's coat of mail and did not kill him."
You are the guy who show us original authentic antique weapons and the way to use them with practical exercises, there is noone in the world doing this except for you, so your 195.000 subscribers are well deserved. Of course Knight Errant, Skallagrim, Metatron, Thegn Thrand and Shad all have their value, but you guys are all a little bit different from meach other, in my opinion you do not compete, and in fact you all complete each other.
I´ve seen pictures of German police units wearing maille, just 2 or three years back. Not kidding. Germany has very little gun violence and quite a bit more knife violence, so maybe because of that.... Yeah, just googled for literally only seconds and confirmed: German police units like the SEK (Sondereinsatzkommando) still use maille (German -> "Kettenhemd") today in 2018. Funfact: The German word "Kettenhemd" literally translates to "chain shirt" in english. I find that amusing.
@martialme 84 Makes alot of sense. Even just for neck, armpit, groin gapping and similar. Chainmail sewn into clothing. I suppose it's cheaper than stab proof vests, like kevlar or similar. Anyone know?
It's also really easy to maintain. To clean a mail hauberk, all you need is a barrel full of sand. Toss in the hauberk, close the lid and then tilting the barrel on its side, roll the barrel around. The abrasive quality of sand easily gets in the nooks and crannies of each ring and strips away any corrosion and detritus that might've formed on or gotten caught in the rings themselves. Saves quite a bit of time and effort as opposed to plate which would require copious polishing. Oh, and I was hoping you'd mention the relatively obscure reference to the WWI mail face guard, which you did, so kudos to you for that! Love your videos and keep up the great work!
Read that the older way to do it was to put the mail and some sand into a pigs bladder, close up the gap and throw it from person to person to build upper body and arm strength (and dry/knock off any rust from the mail) - the original medicine ball.
OrkStuff and if you added some protective grease or oil in the bladder or barrel you got the rust protection at the same time. If there was only one mail to clean I'd use the bladder, if there were several, as in a whole squad, I'd use a decent size barrel and do them all at once.
If you added 'protective grease or oil in the bladder or barrel' to the sand already in it then you would end up with grinding paste - probably not ideal ;-)
Aren't you confusing ring size with internal diameter? You can have rings with a small internal diameter but a thick wire and still end up with very dense and stiff mail that has rather large rings. On the contrary you can have small internal diameters on the rings but use very very thin wire and end up with a rather loose garment that has small rings. Most scholars tend to give internal diameter and wire thickness as key charactaristics when discussing mail because those are the two most important factors.
I don't think he was confused but some listeners easily might be. I think the point he was making was that, considering riveted mail specifically, there is what you could call a soft minimum on wire diameter. If the wire is too small it just becomes incredibly difficult to rivet, and when you're already using your lightest wire and you start winding tighter rings the result is as he says. I suspect split rings would have been the rage had they been available before maille became obsolete, that would allow the same or better strength in the individual rings as rivets, but without any rivets so that thinner wire could be used. Modern maille for butchers and divers use very tight rings from very thin wire and weld the links together - the only drawback I can see to that is it means field repair is difficult or impossible.
Wanna see a video where German police is wearing mail to respond to a crazy person with knife and hammer in 2013? (You only see the police gearing up in this, not engaging the perp.) Video title is: SEK-Einsatz im Kettenhemd - Siegen - 11.06.2013
Great video Matt. Interesting and very well explained. I was not aware of the geographical differences in the making of the maille. I'm a n00b I know, but this n00b now got +100 xp lol. Thank you Matt, keep up your very good work.
There is an example in the Imperial War Museum, of a British infantryman’s helmet with mail attached to it, hanging down from the brim of the helmet in front of the soldier’s eyes like a curtain. This was actually suggested by the physician of George V to act as eye protection for tank crews against shrapnel (they didn’t see much anyway in those contraptions).
The ww1 tank protection maile was mainly to protect against spalling. Spalling is when a projectile hits the armor but doesn't penetrate. But it does deform the armor slightly causing flakes of it to fragment of on the inside of the tank. The British later in ww2 liked to use the spalling effect with the HESH rounds, basically a round containing a big blob of plastic explosive to casuse maximum spalling without the need to penetrate the armor.
One thing I would like to add for those who are unfamiliar with everything about mail is that, when we refer to 'butted' or 'riveted' mail, most of the rings are actually solid: the butted or riveted links were used to connect an array of solid links, which were then attached to another array of links-- going so forth until you form the piece.
I tried on a pair of mail gloves in the late 1970s. It was in a textile mill, where they cut piles of fabric into shape (e.g. for making shirts) with a vertical reciprocating powerknife. Good for saving fingers, no matter how experienced the user was.
I wonder if the tendency for 6 in 1 rings in Japan is due to the fact they aren’t fond of 4, the character “shi” having the connotation of “death” which I imagine one wouldn’t want in a piece of armor. Just a speculation...
Not refuting your point, but it's important to note that Japanese maille was more like a chain net than a sheet. (With vertically-oriented rings like an actual chain, instead of purely flat-laying rings like in conventional 4-1 maille.) The patterns were typically either square or hexagonal grids/nets, with 4-1 and 6-1 being the most commonly used. (Which now that I think of it, would make the square variants technically 4-1, so I guess there’s our answer right there :p) That said, you see some historical 4-1 maille patterned antiques from Japan, but these examples were from much later periods where foreign influence is most likely. (Like we see with the "nanban dō", which was 100% just peascod breastplates influencing Japanese armor design.)
another cool thing about maille is it is still used in some fashion. maybe not as armor per se, rather in the form of butcher's gloves and deep sea fishing gloves to protect hands and wrists from cuts either from knives in the case of butchers or sharp teeth in the case of large predatory fish!
+P3dro :D Probably. And as part of the contract, the German police now has to not only read the perps their rights, but also inform them that The Metatron has spread his wings!
I've worked in a kitchen since Summer of '17, we use knives, I've learned how to cut meat & veggies safely since then, but as novices, my coworkers & I used mail gloves with tiny butted steel or maybe titanium rings that protect the hand that holds the food in place while cutting. So I think mail should still be counted as used protection right up till the present, Also, in places where stabbing is a common occurrence, I think some folks, like the Metatron, like to wear mail vests under street clothes, just in case. Oh! Also! I almost forgot! Titanium shark suits! So I say mail has been, & ever will be, our friend for the foreseeable future.
Lots of comments are pointing out its use in the modern day as anti-shark armour for divers. I'd like to add that butchers and surgeons use mail gloves on their non-dominant hand to avoid accidentally wounding themselves with the knives/scalpels.
Your subject may be niche, but I would not call your focus narrow. You talk about quite a wide variety of subjects. That's one of the things I like about your channel.
I typically work with 5/16" and 1/4" rings. Original armour would potentially involve a dozen or more different sizes in order to fit the need of a specific area, but in modern work most tend to stick to a single size for simplicity. I'm currently (slowly) working on a hauberk in welded 16 gauge, 5/16" stainless steel rings.
Thanks so much for the video! I love how the shirt you're wearing says "riveted" on it, did you do that on purpose? The Japanese definitely used "European" 4-in-1, as well as Japanese 4-in-1 and other weaves. The unconventional weaves were often used to connect plates together, while they usually used "European" 4-in-1 for full shirts just like everyone else did.
I knew quite a bit about modern weapons and armor (modern guns) before starting to watch these videos but little to nothing about historical weapons and armor. I tend to take about 2-4 months and spend all of my free time learning about a subject that I didn't previously know. I usually use TH-cam, video lecture series and get some text books to read through. My goal, beyond simple interest in learning about things I didn't know before, is usually to get to a point of "being able to ask smart questions to an expert". It's great we live in a time now where there's such easy access to good information about "less popular" and more technical things. I find it a lot more interesting and generally life-useful than spending that time with the horrible "entertainment" they put on the TV these days.
Yeah we know alot...from you.i was a total noob mostly having my knolage from video games,lol.but then i found your channel,im gonna be a hippster and say i subscribed some years ago,you had about 3000 subs at the time.back to the point,so yeah i leard most of the stuff that i know from you and errant
I would expect further downsides of smaller rings to be that it is also heavier and would in medieval times also be more expensive to produce (because every ring needs to be individually riveted)?
It's not a standard issue is it? I know that cops buy all sorts of wests, cut-resistant gear and in some cases even fire resistant stuff, but AFAIK, they mostly pay it out of their own pockets.
The maille used by tank crews (not just drivers) was to protect against spalling--that is, little bits of metal knocked of the inside of the armour plate by bullets hitting the outside of the tank.
It may let body heat out, but as someone who wears it in the desert I can tell you that it heats up in sunlight just like plate armour does and can burn the heck out of you. You want to cover that stuff up with a loose overgarment to keep the sun off of it.
Well cheers twice over... One for the standard itself (I thought that would always be the job of a coif), and secondly for the time periods listed. Fair bit of reference in that video for my living history group.
A coif did do the same job, but coifs were largely out of fashion by the 15th century. If you have a helmet without a visor, a coif is great because when you need to remove the helmet to look around or take a drink, most of your head is still protected. But once helmets with visors were invented, a coif became less necessary, and standards began to gain popularity.
I remember back in highschool, my football coach was also my history teacher (how cool, right?). When we were discussing about late medieval period, he brought in a mail shirt he had bought from a flee market. I was dumb and ignorant back then and so, I wanted to try and wear it like they did in RPG games and movies, and what I found to my surprise was how *heavy* it was! Maybe I'm exaggerating, but my point is that there is alot of false things people believe about mail, like how weak it is, and other stuff, when it's quite good! If it wasn't, people wouldn't have worn it and it wouldn't be as well-known as today now, right?
Maille continues to be used to this day... abattoirs & your local butcher use chainmail gloves to protect against razor-sharp butcher knives 🔪... scientists & fishermen also use gloves to handle animals with sharp scales/barbs/beaks like rockfish & large squid 🦑... and sometimes sleeves & pants are worn when diving with sharks 🦈
With discussions of armor I always find it hard to believe that lower classes didn't find any use for wooden armor. Surely it would be in better than layered fabric in some cases, and certainly affordable and accessible.
The reason you have so many subs is because you're fun to watch, goofy, and affable. It's just fun. Of course, you cover interesting topics that HEMA oriented people want to learn about, and you are obviously passionate about them. You also have a good microphone, which is a really big deal, because audio is a pretty damn big part of _listening to someone talk for a long time_ . There are some other guys that I _would_ like, but I can't fucking stand the terrible audio quality. Random buzzing and shit... can only handle that for a few minutes.
@@alfatazer_8991 Technically that was the padded jack worn underneath the maille that stops arrows, but the two are meant to be a complete armor system, so it still counts.
I am kinda interested to know if protection drove the size of rings, or if because of the way rings would have been made at the time they would come out different sizes, and were then used in a way that would add to an easier fit as they put them together.
"A true craftsman would create maille with varying sized rings to allow for the armour to flex and fit precisely." ~ Nick Checksfield (Master maille maker)
I now know (from watching videos by Lloyd, Raph, Shad and yourself) it was common to wear padded protection (e.g. a gambeson or armoring doublet) underneath mail but I've also heard it mentioned that mail was worn under plate to cover the gaps. Can you point me to (or make) a video about how mail was worn in conjunction with plate armor in medieval times? Specifically, was "Platemail" a thing and if so, did they wear plate OVER mail (i.e. as a third layer of armor) or were they somehow connected together and worn as a single layer over padded clothing. Similarly, was "Scalemail" a thing?
The term "platemail" is not a term for plate armor with mail reinforcement in the major gaps in the plate. "Platemail" is an anachronistic term stemming from either the Victorians or DnD (I can't remember which), where the word "mail" was inaccurately used as a suffix for "armor." ("chain mail", "scale mail", etc.) Historically, plate was "plate". Chainmail was just "mail" or "maille".
That said, when mail was worn under a full harness of plate, they only wore it as small bits sewn directly to exposed places like the armpits and elbows of the arming jack. (And sometimes a separate skirt of mail that was belted on under the tasset. A full mail hauberk was never worn under a complete harness of plate because it was entirely unnecessary, and would only serve to add another 30 lbs to their kit. (Nearly a 60% increase in overall armor weight.)
german police started using chainmail a few years ago when refugee's attacks with knives went up, so they are actually still in use today by security forces in a way
Can you do more videos on horsemanship and riding in combat? Or a video on squires? I can't find many videos on TH-cam about how knights *actually* fought in formation or in charges, and none of the main medieval TH-camrs seem to cover this topic. The folks at Destrier might know more. I've read that pages and grooms supported the knights; did they charge alongside them, or stay back with the baggage train? A "lance" seems to have been considered a knight and 3 or 4 supporting squires/archers; did the archers dismount and form their own unit of archers, or ride alongside the knight all the time? I'm having trouble picturing how all this could actually play out in a medieval battle.
Question: what are the differences between flanged maces and morning stars(not the flail)? does morning stars perform better than maces on some situations? sorry for my bad english.
Why should they? He is already advertising them around the world far better than they do. A shame that the nearest outlet is hundreds of miles away from me.
I didn't know smaller rings stiffened chain mail. So did a full suit of mail have varying sizes of mail? So what would be the ring size difference between different limbs?
A question I've always wondered about was whether or not soldered or brazed mail was ever a thing? And if it was, would it be at all comparable to rivited mail in terms of protection vs production time?
Thank you for another interesting video! May I ask: assuming both are competently made, in that scenario would you prefer mail over plate harness? I gather that the latter made mail generally obsolete, aside from filling in the gaps, but I wonder if there were situations where a hauberk would be preferable to a coat of plates or similar.
Plate usually requires mail underneath or in the gaps. But for protection, plate is vastly better. Mail is 1) more comfortable, 2) less hot and 3) lighter if comparing the two in general. It's like comparing light armour with heavy armour.
Not sure how historically accurate it is but to get a stiffer piece with the same size rings you can do the 6 in 1 pattern. Harder to do if riveting, but not so bad if soldering.
That was actually one of those things that is obvious once you say it, but I had never realized that the rings differ in size over a single piece of mail. Then again, I've never actually held mail in my hands. Yet.
I have a desperate question, could you give a full tutorial on HOW TO MAKE a standard collar? I'm new to the armorer's craft and I'm trying to make my own gear, but I can't find any videos on how to make certain maille armors, everyone only posts how to make a patch of maille itself
Even fine mail will still protect you from slashes, and cutting-optimized weapons like the Tulwar were very popular in India and Persia, so fine mail was more common there than in Europe
I would imagine that several people were involved in making a mail: some people that made pieces of different ring size, and some people that assembled the things. Note that I have no proof for that, other then it stand to reason from a production point of view.
I know butted mail(le) is not much good. But what about *welded* mail? The only mail(le) shirt I currently own is made of very small, *welded* stainless steel rings. I wasn't trying for historical authenticity. I wanted it in case I found myself in an environment where an edged weapon attack was somewhat likely, maybe more likely than being attacked with a gun. Will this offer any significant protection, or am I just kidding myself?
Indian butted mail? I realise I really don't know much about indian arms and armor, and I think it's really interesting. I would really want to know more about it. This type of mail, as it is butted plus the rings are quite thin, must be rather weak, but light I suppose.
It certainly was compared to European mail of the medieval period, but it was meant to protect against different threats. Indian swords of the period usually(but not always) focused on cutting, and even light butted mail is still good against slashes.
![[ไฮไลต์] เทควันโดหญิง รุ่น 49kg "เทนนิส พาณิภัค" ไทย vs โมร็อกโก รอบ 16 คน | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpqCeq35Oc8/mqdefault.jpg)
tighter ring = less penetration
XD
It is nice and tight though
Nah you just gotta push harder. I’ve also heard lubricant is essential for tight ring situations
That is true. "When in doubt, lubricate" Jamie Hyneman (Mythbusters)
@P3dro 2486, Not always. Usamah ibn Munquidh wrote this account of him giving a couched lance charge; "He bent sideways so much that his head reached his stirrup, his shield and lance fell off his hand, and his helmet off his head...he then resumed his position, erect in the saddle. Having had linked mail under his tunic, my lance did not wound him."
Thankfully it didn't, since the man he had attempted to kill turned out to be an ally. Though another account about Usamah struck a knight named Philip with his lance, and a companion of Philip came to the Saracen camp to see "... the horseman who struck Philip the knight, for verily the Franks have all been astounded on account of that blow which pierced two layers of links [back and front] in the knight's coat of mail and did not kill him."
ExplosiveFetus get out
You are the guy who show us original authentic antique weapons and the way to use them with practical exercises, there is noone in the world doing this except for you, so your 195.000 subscribers are well deserved.
Of course Knight Errant, Skallagrim, Metatron, Thegn Thrand and Shad all have their value, but you guys are all a little bit different from meach other, in my opinion you do not compete, and in fact you all complete each other.
Modern divers use full-body mail when they swim with sharks. How badass is that?!
Jacek N Er...6?
I´ve seen pictures of German police units wearing maille, just 2 or three years back. Not kidding.
Germany has very little gun violence and quite a bit more knife violence, so maybe because of that....
Yeah, just googled for literally only seconds and confirmed: German police units like the SEK (Sondereinsatzkommando) still use maille (German -> "Kettenhemd") today in 2018.
Funfact: The German word "Kettenhemd" literally translates to "chain shirt" in english.
I find that amusing.
Shark suite? Who wrote that one?
Very good point. Also butchers have maille gloves often.
@martialme 84 Makes alot of sense. Even just for neck, armpit, groin gapping and similar. Chainmail sewn into clothing. I suppose it's cheaper than stab proof vests, like kevlar or similar. Anyone know?
I vote for a Codpiece special, a helmet is first on the list but seriously the codpiece must be on everyone's mind!
From my re-enacting days I remember mail underwear with a padded mail codpiece was an option for wearing under full plate armour :D
It's a helmet for your helmet!
Matt did an armored codpiece video about a year ago.
*everyone's crotch. Otherwise you're doing it wrong.
It must work: Have you ever been served a cod in armour?
It's also really easy to maintain. To clean a mail hauberk, all you need is a barrel full of sand. Toss in the hauberk, close the lid and then tilting the barrel on its side, roll the barrel around. The abrasive quality of sand easily gets in the nooks and crannies of each ring and strips away any corrosion and detritus that might've formed on or gotten caught in the rings themselves. Saves quite a bit of time and effort as opposed to plate which would require copious polishing. Oh, and I was hoping you'd mention the relatively obscure reference to the WWI mail face guard, which you did, so kudos to you for that! Love your videos and keep up the great work!
Read that the older way to do it was to put the mail and some sand into a pigs bladder, close up the gap and throw it from person to person to build upper body and arm strength (and dry/knock off any rust from the mail) - the original medicine ball.
OrkStuff and if you added some protective grease or oil in the bladder or barrel you got the rust protection at the same time.
If there was only one mail to clean I'd use the bladder, if there were several, as in a whole squad, I'd use a decent size barrel and do them all at once.
If you added 'protective grease or oil in the bladder or barrel' to the sand already in it then you would end up with grinding paste - probably not ideal ;-)
Yes, I was having kittens waiting for him to mention it. What about the wooden shrapnel though? Not sue about that.
I have my squire roll the barrel.
I was just on the SuperDry website and couldn't find that maille. Does anyone have a link?
XD
You'll need more than a link.
Lol. They really should make a t-shirt with a chainmail print on it.
+Why Jay Ahahaha! XD
You, sir... I tip my hat!
And netsrac, don´t call it that. That´s a bullshit hollywood/popculture term made up very recently.
Ok mail/maille then, happy now ;-P
They still use it to protect against sharkbites
Indeed. Butchers also use it.
German police still use maille since they have to fight far more knife violence in Germany than gun violence.
Aren't you confusing ring size with internal diameter? You can have rings with a small internal diameter but a thick wire and still end up with very dense and stiff mail that has rather large rings. On the contrary you can have small internal diameters on the rings but use very very thin wire and end up with a rather loose garment that has small rings.
Most scholars tend to give internal diameter and wire thickness as key charactaristics when discussing mail because those are the two most important factors.
I don't think he was confused but some listeners easily might be. I think the point he was making was that, considering riveted mail specifically, there is what you could call a soft minimum on wire diameter. If the wire is too small it just becomes incredibly difficult to rivet, and when you're already using your lightest wire and you start winding tighter rings the result is as he says. I suspect split rings would have been the rage had they been available before maille became obsolete, that would allow the same or better strength in the individual rings as rivets, but without any rivets so that thinner wire could be used. Modern maille for butchers and divers use very tight rings from very thin wire and weld the links together - the only drawback I can see to that is it means field repair is difficult or impossible.
Wanna see a video where German police is wearing mail to respond to a crazy person with knife and hammer in 2013?
(You only see the police gearing up in this, not engaging the perp.)
Video title is: SEK-Einsatz im Kettenhemd - Siegen - 11.06.2013
Great video Matt. Interesting and very well explained.
I was not aware of the geographical differences in the making of the maille.
I'm a n00b I know, but this n00b now got +100 xp lol.
Thank you Matt, keep up your very good work.
Our daddy taught us not to be ashamed of our armour.
Especially since it's of such a good size and all.
Aldor yes
Yeah I see that, your daddy gave you good advice.
Fat-shaming joke smh...
It's from gay porn, not fat shaming. SJWs proving once again they're the 3rd worst kind of people (after nazis and tankies).
Don't forget weebs, we are the worst
For someone who's so fond of high qualty thrusting Matt speaks very highly about maille.
There is an example in the Imperial War Museum, of a British infantryman’s helmet with mail attached to it, hanging down from the brim of the helmet in front of the soldier’s eyes like a curtain. This was actually suggested by the physician of George V to act as eye protection for tank crews against shrapnel (they didn’t see much anyway in those contraptions).
I have seen modern mail cloves used in food preparation. Proper kitchen knives are extremely sharp so this glove protects the hand from missed cuts.
The ww1 tank protection maile was mainly to protect against spalling. Spalling is when a projectile hits the armor but doesn't penetrate. But it does deform the armor slightly causing flakes of it to fragment of on the inside of the tank. The British later in ww2 liked to use the spalling effect with the HESH rounds, basically a round containing a big blob of plastic explosive to casuse maximum spalling without the need to penetrate the armor.
Maille gloves are also used in the food industry when cleaning meat cutting equipment.
Usually the Super Dry commercials are about swords. Nice to see one featuring armor.
Yes! I love armor vids! And mace videos, if you do more of those two things then I’ll be a very happy camper!
One thing I would like to add for those who are unfamiliar with everything about mail is that, when we refer to 'butted' or 'riveted' mail, most of the rings are actually solid: the butted or riveted links were used to connect an array of solid links, which were then attached to another array of links-- going so forth until you form the piece.
love your passion! keep it up!
I tried on a pair of mail gloves in the late 1970s. It was in a textile mill, where they cut piles of fabric into shape (e.g. for making shirts) with a vertical reciprocating powerknife. Good for saving fingers, no matter how experienced the user was.
Maille A S M R
I know somebody who knows somebody who once saw a Matt Easton video where he wasn't wearing a Superdry t-shirt.
Dovahkiin, dovahkiin...
His wedding video doesn't count. (Unless he posts it online.)
BTW, great video Matt.
Wasn't there one where he was outside in winter with a coat?
I am that somebody. It was a very strange day
He was probably wearing a Superdry tee underneath.
I wonder if the tendency for 6 in 1 rings in Japan is due to the fact they aren’t fond of 4, the character “shi” having the connotation of “death” which I imagine one wouldn’t want in a piece of armor. Just a speculation...
Redshirt214 - I'd be surprised if you were wrong, they are still superstitious of such things.
Not refuting your point, but it's important to note that Japanese maille was more like a chain net than a sheet. (With vertically-oriented rings like an actual chain, instead of purely flat-laying rings like in conventional 4-1 maille.) The patterns were typically either square or hexagonal grids/nets, with 4-1 and 6-1 being the most commonly used. (Which now that I think of it, would make the square variants technically 4-1, so I guess there’s our answer right there :p)
That said, you see some historical 4-1 maille patterned antiques from Japan, but these examples were from much later periods where foreign influence is most likely. (Like we see with the "nanban dō", which was 100% just peascod breastplates influencing Japanese armor design.)
I love it when I get Captain Context alerts before work.
Great video. Cheers!
high quality content. you have connections, experience, skill, gear, and knowledge. did i miss anything? of course we sub.
some mindset?
i remember some tactics now too
I beg to differ!I think your best armor video is your Chainmail Overview when you'd lost your voice.
Stil, this is another great one.
Modern butchers still use mail gloves to this day. Its indispensable kitchen apparel if you do a lot of cutting.
another cool thing about maille is it is still used in some fashion. maybe not as armor per se, rather in the form of butcher's gloves and deep sea fishing gloves to protect hands and wrists from cuts either from knives in the case of butchers or sharp teeth in the case of large predatory fish!
And of course today some people use chain-mail as anti-shark armor. So still in regular use for 2000+ years.
Squad23jta It's also very commonly used for protective gear for butchers. Chainmail gloves and aprons.
German police units use maille today still.
That´s what you get for knife crime instead of gun crime.
martialme84 is Metatron acting as a consultant lol?
+P3dro :D Probably.
And as part of the contract, the German police now has to not only read the perps their rights, but also inform them that The Metatron has spread his wings!
I've worked in a kitchen since Summer of '17, we use knives, I've learned how to cut meat & veggies safely since then, but as novices, my coworkers & I used mail gloves with tiny butted steel or maybe titanium rings that protect the hand that holds the food in place while cutting. So I think mail should still be counted as used protection right up till the present, Also, in places where stabbing is a common occurrence, I think some folks, like the Metatron, like to wear mail vests under street clothes, just in case. Oh! Also! I almost forgot! Titanium shark suits! So I say mail has been, & ever will be, our friend for the foreseeable future.
Hears "...there's not a lot to say about that..." pauses video, takes a bathroom break. ;)
I imagine the early tanks experienced quite a bit of spalling breaking off the inside of the armor and striking the crew.
Lots of comments are pointing out its use in the modern day as anti-shark armour for divers. I'd like to add that butchers and surgeons use mail gloves on their non-dominant hand to avoid accidentally wounding themselves with the knives/scalpels.
German police aswell.
That sallet bit briefly became a meme.....
Your subject may be niche, but I would not call your focus narrow. You talk about quite a wide variety of subjects. That's one of the things I like about your channel.
I had no idea, thanks for sharing!
So mail is like a wearable heat sink. It's not something I'd ever considered. Cheers Matt.
I typically work with 5/16" and 1/4" rings. Original armour would potentially involve a dozen or more different sizes in order to fit the need of a specific area, but in modern work most tend to stick to a single size for simplicity. I'm currently (slowly) working on a hauberk in welded 16 gauge, 5/16" stainless steel rings.
Matt would never buy butted maille - even his shirt is flathead riveted.
Thanks so much for the video! I love how the shirt you're wearing says "riveted" on it, did you do that on purpose? The Japanese definitely used "European" 4-in-1, as well as Japanese 4-in-1 and other weaves. The unconventional weaves were often used to connect plates together, while they usually used "European" 4-in-1 for full shirts just like everyone else did.
"It's not the size, its how you use it"
I knew quite a bit about modern weapons and armor (modern guns) before starting to watch these videos but little to nothing about historical weapons and armor. I tend to take about 2-4 months and spend all of my free time learning about a subject that I didn't previously know. I usually use TH-cam, video lecture series and get some text books to read through. My goal, beyond simple interest in learning about things I didn't know before, is usually to get to a point of "being able to ask smart questions to an expert".
It's great we live in a time now where there's such easy access to good information about "less popular" and more technical things. I find it a lot more interesting and generally life-useful than spending that time with the horrible "entertainment" they put on the TV these days.
I think Lindybeige showed off a maille shirt with different size rings like Matt is talking about here.
Yeah we know alot...from you.i was a total noob mostly having my knolage from video games,lol.but then i found your channel,im gonna be a hippster and say i subscribed some years ago,you had about 3000 subs at the time.back to the point,so yeah i leard most of the stuff that i know from you and errant
"Maille"
wow, RIGHT ye olde
I do know lots of things about weapons and armor.
But only from watching your videos.
I would expect further downsides of smaller rings to be that it is also heavier and would in medieval times also be more expensive to produce (because every ring needs to be individually riveted)?
"There are many different sizes of ring."
I signed up for the history, I stayed for the double entendres.
Oh boy this should be fun.
It's STILL used by German riot Police.
I love wearing mail, and it's so funny watchin' my mates struggle trying to put my hauberk on.
It's not a standard issue is it? I know that cops buy all sorts of wests, cut-resistant gear and in some cases even fire resistant stuff, but AFAIK, they mostly pay it out of their own pockets.
edi afaik, standard issue, for dealing with knife-armed criminals in a way that allows safe capture.
Really? That's officially badass. Nice one Germany. Not sure about world cup though. lol, for now.
The maille used by tank crews (not just drivers) was to protect against spalling--that is, little bits of metal knocked of the inside of the armour plate by bullets hitting the outside of the tank.
Your "last point" is the most important part of this video.
Please a comparaison video between the French 1822 Light cavalry saber and the British 1821 light cav saber.
It may let body heat out, but as someone who wears it in the desert I can tell you that it heats up in sunlight just like plate armour does and can burn the heck out of you. You want to cover that stuff up with a loose overgarment to keep the sun off of it.
Well cheers twice over... One for the standard itself (I thought that would always be the job of a coif), and secondly for the time periods listed. Fair bit of reference in that video for my living history group.
A coif did do the same job, but coifs were largely out of fashion by the 15th century. If you have a helmet without a visor, a coif is great because when you need to remove the helmet to look around or take a drink, most of your head is still protected. But once helmets with visors were invented, a coif became less necessary, and standards began to gain popularity.
he looks like an orc merchant, he just needs an earring on the top of his left ear
Modern body armor sports mail in the flanks to protect from stabs sometimes (e.g. the German "Bristol" model)
Protect Ya Neck
wanna ram wi me?? XD
I remember back in highschool, my football coach was also my history teacher (how cool, right?). When we were discussing about late medieval period, he brought in a mail shirt he had bought from a flee market. I was dumb and ignorant back then and so, I wanted to try and wear it like they did in RPG games and movies, and what I found to my surprise was how *heavy* it was! Maybe I'm exaggerating, but my point is that there is alot of false things people believe about mail, like how weak it is, and other stuff, when it's quite good! If it wasn't, people wouldn't have worn it and it wouldn't be as well-known as today now, right?
four minutes in
"what I really wanted to talk about..."
"For example, my Sallet where I bashed myself on the head with a rolling pin"
I find this more amusing than I probably should.
Maille continues to be used to this day... abattoirs & your local butcher use chainmail gloves to protect against razor-sharp butcher knives 🔪... scientists & fishermen also use gloves to handle animals with sharp scales/barbs/beaks like rockfish & large squid 🦑... and sometimes sleeves & pants are worn when diving with sharks 🦈
you need chainmail in london these days
Oi! Ya gotta loisence fo' that chainmail?!
With discussions of armor I always find it hard to believe that lower classes didn't find any use for wooden armor. Surely it would be in better than layered fabric in some cases, and certainly affordable and accessible.
yep! In fact, wooden shields are a fantastic form of armor that is so good, that it was generally used by upper classes as well!
The reason you have so many subs is because you're fun to watch, goofy, and affable. It's just fun. Of course, you cover interesting topics that HEMA oriented people want to learn about, and you are obviously passionate about them.
You also have a good microphone, which is a really big deal, because audio is a pretty damn big part of _listening to someone talk for a long time_ . There are some other guys that I _would_ like, but I can't fucking stand the terrible audio quality. Random buzzing and shit... can only handle that for a few minutes.
last time I was this early, muslim scribes were writing down terrified accounts of "Frankish" mail armor.
Formidable enough to halt arrows apparently so much so that Knights looked like pin cushions at the battle of Jaffa.
@@alfatazer_8991 Technically that was the padded jack worn underneath the maille that stops arrows, but the two are meant to be a complete armor system, so it still counts.
I am kinda interested to know if protection drove the size of rings, or if because of the way rings would have been made at the time they would come out different sizes, and were then used in a way that would add to an easier fit as they put them together.
Please make a video on how mount swords on wall,especially Tulwar’s and Shamshirs.
"A true craftsman would create maille with varying sized rings to allow for the armour to flex and fit precisely." ~ Nick Checksfield (Master maille maker)
I now know (from watching videos by Lloyd, Raph, Shad and yourself) it was common to wear padded protection (e.g. a gambeson or armoring doublet) underneath mail but I've also heard it mentioned that mail was worn under plate to cover the gaps.
Can you point me to (or make) a video about how mail was worn in conjunction with plate armor in medieval times? Specifically, was "Platemail" a thing and if so, did they wear plate OVER mail (i.e. as a third layer of armor) or were they somehow connected together and worn as a single layer over padded clothing. Similarly, was "Scalemail" a thing?
The term "platemail" is not a term for plate armor with mail reinforcement in the major gaps in the plate.
"Platemail" is an anachronistic term stemming from either the Victorians or DnD (I can't remember which), where the word "mail" was inaccurately used as a suffix for "armor." ("chain mail", "scale mail", etc.)
Historically, plate was "plate". Chainmail was just "mail" or "maille".
That said, when mail was worn under a full harness of plate, they only wore it as small bits sewn directly to exposed places like the armpits and elbows of the arming jack. (And sometimes a separate skirt of mail that was belted on under the tasset. A full mail hauberk was never worn under a complete harness of plate because it was entirely unnecessary, and would only serve to add another 30 lbs to their kit. (Nearly a 60% increase in overall armor weight.)
Can you do videos on modern era armor?
Like 18-19 century armor for example.
german police started using chainmail a few years ago when refugee's attacks with knives went up, so they are actually still in use today by security forces in a way
Can you do more videos on horsemanship and riding in combat? Or a video on squires? I can't find many videos on TH-cam about how knights *actually* fought in formation or in charges, and none of the main medieval TH-camrs seem to cover this topic. The folks at Destrier might know more. I've read that pages and grooms supported the knights; did they charge alongside them, or stay back with the baggage train? A "lance" seems to have been considered a knight and 3 or 4 supporting squires/archers; did the archers dismount and form their own unit of archers, or ride alongside the knight all the time? I'm having trouble picturing how all this could actually play out in a medieval battle.
Question: what are the differences between flanged maces and morning stars(not the flail)? does morning stars perform better than maces on some situations?
sorry for my bad english.
Best armor against zombie apocalypse
How is he not sponsored by SuperDry yet
Why should they? He is already advertising them around the world far better than they do. A shame that the nearest outlet is hundreds of miles away from me.
I didn't know smaller rings stiffened chain mail. So did a full suit of mail have varying sizes of mail? So what would be the ring size difference between different limbs?
I was starting to feel worried, that there will be no innuendos in this video, but Matt managed to sneak one in in the end.
Ondřej Březina I'll just bet he 'snuck one in the end' nudge nudge, wink wink...
11:19 Watch out for those wooden British tanks. You don't want stout English oak splinters spalling off the inside of the armour, no sir.
A question I've always wondered about was whether or not soldered or brazed mail was ever a thing? And if it was, would it be at all comparable to rivited mail in terms of protection vs production time?
Thank you for another interesting video! May I ask: assuming both are competently made, in that scenario would you prefer mail over plate harness? I gather that the latter made mail generally obsolete, aside from filling in the gaps, but I wonder if there were situations where a hauberk would be preferable to a coat of plates or similar.
Plate usually requires mail underneath or in the gaps. But for protection, plate is vastly better. Mail is 1) more comfortable, 2) less hot and 3) lighter if comparing the two in general. It's like comparing light armour with heavy armour.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about round riveted vs flat riveted mail
A Ho-pening is a very risky hole.
Not sure how historically accurate it is but to get a stiffer piece with the same size rings you can do the 6 in 1 pattern. Harder to do if riveting, but not so bad if soldering.
That was actually one of those things that is obvious once you say it, but I had never realized that the rings differ in size over a single piece of mail. Then again, I've never actually held mail in my hands. Yet.
I have a desperate question, could you give a full tutorial on HOW TO MAKE a standard collar? I'm new to the armorer's craft and I'm trying to make my own gear, but I can't find any videos on how to make certain maille armors, everyone only posts how to make a patch of maille itself
When talking about ancient mail and the Romans, you didn't mention that most ancient mail actually used solid washer-like rings for every other row.
Could you talk about the use of mail /maille beyond the medieval era, especially in the 17th, 18th, and 19th century?
I remember seeing a lot of that very fine Indo-Persian maile in the Wallace Collection, was there a good reason for it, other than decorative?
Even fine mail will still protect you from slashes, and cutting-optimized weapons like the Tulwar were very popular in India and Persia, so fine mail was more common there than in Europe
I would imagine that several people were involved in making a mail: some people that made pieces of different ring size, and some people that assembled the things. Note that I have no proof for that, other then it stand to reason from a production point of view.
Where can I go to learn more about 18th century swords that sailors used.
Do a video on tailoring maille!
I know butted mail(le) is not much good. But what about *welded* mail? The only mail(le) shirt I currently own is made of very small, *welded* stainless steel rings. I wasn't trying for historical authenticity. I wanted it in case I found myself in an environment where an edged weapon attack was somewhat likely, maybe more likely than being attacked with a gun. Will this offer any significant protection, or am I just kidding myself?
Is there a difference between chain mail and ring mail? Also, was every mail riveted, or there is another type of mail?
4:50 *Male* comes in lots of different sizes...
I've also heard that ring size affects penetration...
Let's get some P E N E T R A T I O N up in here.
I wonder if that's where the idea of mail attached to leather clothing that you see in some games comes from...
Indian butted mail? I realise I really don't know much about indian arms and armor, and I think it's really interesting. I would really want to know more about it.
This type of mail, as it is butted plus the rings are quite thin, must be rather weak, but light I suppose.
It certainly was compared to European mail of the medieval period, but it was meant to protect against different threats. Indian swords of the period usually(but not always) focused on cutting, and even light butted mail is still good against slashes.
I see this channel is dominated by the mail establishment.