Why does my 1084S only display PINK?!

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ความคิดเห็น • 70

  • @pet.a.928
    @pet.a.928 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    basic trouble shooting 1. visual inspection 2. check voltages :) you would have found this problem a long time ago.

  • @natethefighter
    @natethefighter 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Sunk cost? Hell no - I (and others, I'm certain) have learned so much about troubleshooting CRTs from your persistence!

  • @kilton44
    @kilton44 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    So many sad trombones but you got there in the end! Thanks for sharing. And @TheRetroChannel definitely also has some great content and humour, just like you!

  • @mikedefoy
    @mikedefoy 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Before I turn on any equipment, the first thing I do is a complete, closeup, visual inspection with illuminated magnification. It saves time and money reworking things that might not need replacing.

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I thought I had, but the resistor looked good from the top down perspective so I must have missed it!

  • @michaelsasse8427
    @michaelsasse8427 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What a awesome repair. I love hearing what logic goes into troubleshooting from schematic.

  • @tokyogentleman
    @tokyogentleman 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    i like to focus and test simple components like resistors and capacitors before semiconductors

  • @75slaine
    @75slaine 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Fantastic stuff Matt, perseverance pays in the end again. Congratulations and a great presentation of problems and solving them we all go through to keep these machines alive.

  • @TheRetroChannel
    @TheRetroChannel 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Oh, the measurement on the xtal was 15.72KHz and not 14.32MHz. That makes a little more sense as it's around the NTSC scanning frequency. Mind you, knowing that probably would have raised more questions than answers but you got there in the end. Nice job and well explained

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Good eye! I don't know if that 15.7kHz was the horizontal refresh rate coming from somewhere else or just some kind of coincidence. I kind of feel like it's the latter because when I swapped the crystal and variable cap from the parts monitor, it measured closer to 14.3 with the IC still dead weight. I don't know enough to draw any kind of conclusion here. Thanks again for your help!

    • @xsc1000
      @xsc1000 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@retrobitstv Its just horizontal flyback pulse. In horizontal transformer and yokes it has around 1kV amplitude, so it just appears everywhere as a crosstalk-where is high impedance and no good grounding - which is also IC disconnected by blown up resistor. Even if you take probe and put it somewhere near TV, you get it.

  • @nneeerrrd
    @nneeerrrd 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    That's great troubleshooting video Matt! Thanks!

  • @mogwaay
    @mogwaay 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Lovely video Matt, I loved the teardown montage, you can tell that you've gone through that many times previously! Glad it's working again, looks like an ace monitor

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Oh yes, dozens of times now over the last 5 years :P I sure hope it stays working this time!

  • @brentgreeff1115
    @brentgreeff1115 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    That pink would make a nice colour for a monochrome monitor.

  • @teejmiller
    @teejmiller 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    weird.. I'm as old as that monitor and I'm also starting to need new parts :) good fix Matt!

  • @stevvieb
    @stevvieb 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Here in the UK we would call that a Triggers broom (only fools and horses reference)

  • @rager1969
    @rager1969 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Sunk cost fallacy is true for almost every retro project.

  • @shain6946
    @shain6946 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Oh, I’d love to see videos on the NEC Multisync monitors

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I repaired one of them in this video: th-cam.com/video/3BjO8S2kDg8/w-d-xo.html and recently picked up another broken one on eBay for cheap. It basically needed the same treatment but was in much better condition so I didn't film the work.

  • @DrDavesDiversions
    @DrDavesDiversions 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Wow, nice fix... what a journey.

  • @randyab9go188
    @randyab9go188 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    That glue has many issues. It was originally supplied by the Sony Corp to other manufacturers. Unfortunately in that day they did not realize it was hydroscopic and could cause issues with leakage across the conductors causing circuits to malfunction. And when it absorbed the moisture and then head voltage applied it set up an electrolysis which would corrode the wires that it touched. All in all a horrible product. There's really no good way to remove it other than to pick it off which you should never do on a yolk as you will destroy The insulation on the winding's shorting out the yoke. Sometimes in other areas around the flyback they would glock some on to keep components from shifting. That can be carefully removed with a dental tool picking it off of the circuit board. I know of no solvent that will remove it that will also not damage components or the circuit board. Nasty awful stuff. Thank you Sony for your hard work and putting out such a terrible adhesive.😢

  • @bitplanes
    @bitplanes 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    1084 of Theseus

    • @tetsujin_144
      @tetsujin_144 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I was gonna say that, but then I felt like I oughtta see how he fixed it first

  • @garthhowe297
    @garthhowe297 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    On the bright side, you now know pretty much everything is working to spec.

  • @LeftoverBeefcake
    @LeftoverBeefcake 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    14:37 - Heh, I know this feeling. I spent 3 months trying to get an $80 "eBay special" Amiga 2000 mainboard working. In the end, I replaced and repaired a bunch of stuff, only for it to be a resistor pack by the CPU that was in the line of fire of battery corrosion that kept the machine from fully booting. The machine still seems like it has some issues, but it's working... for now...

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      All part of the vintage computer lifestyle!

  • @meneerjansen00
    @meneerjansen00 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wow. You really know you electronics!

  • @yucelbilik
    @yucelbilik 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very very nice video, thanks ❤

  • @MikesArcadeMonitorRepair
    @MikesArcadeMonitorRepair 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wow. Never seen the yoke short like that on a computer monitor. Only ever seen that on arcade monitors (Sharp XM-1801s mostly). Seen that exact issue on them many times. Crazy. As for the pink image, nice find and fix on that! Frustrating for sure.

  • @WinrichNaujoks
    @WinrichNaujoks 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Brilliant fix!
    Which game is that at 18:04?

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The game is A Pig Quest from 2023. It's a brilliant platformer with a lot of amazing visuals, music, and gameplay - basically the whole package!

  • @pwissink1
    @pwissink1 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Still looking for such monitor. But then the PAL one. If I ever find one and needs repair, I know where to look on TH-cam.

  • @e8root
    @e8root 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Where it comes to PAL it technically was identical to NTSC with the exception of reversing phase every other line and using higher bandwidth (so actually higher horizontal chroma resolution) and other than that PAL was desinged for improved EBU phosphors which had better colors in both 3D gamut but also rod stimulation. NTSC was originally designed to have very wide gamut but quickly was changed to much narrowed gamut and to use SMPTE-C phosphors which were for NTSC users optimized less for life-like colors and more to closely match B&W images to how it looked on B&W TVs. Other than that most TV sets did use circuitry which would use delay lines to merge chroma information from two lines - and this was what caused transmission errors leading to decreased color saturation and could affect vertical chroma resolution. Otherwise this circuitry was not actually needed and especially at first many TVs would not have it - this would lead to transmission errors leading to every second line having the same phase errors - but since phase was reversed every other line these phase errors would visually cancel out - just not via specialized circuitry but rather visually. This is relevant for Commodore 64 because especially at first in the 80s many people would have TVs without delay lines and would experience this effect of every second line having slight color shift. Less so because transmission errors but because we are talking abot imperfect C64 video chip generating imperfect signal. Fun fact is that on my SONY PVM-14M2E I don't have this delay scanline circuit and it would show actual colors decoded and any phase compensation is purely visual. I actually like this a lot on this monitor - for systems like C64 it does make image more interresting to look at. Similar professional 15KHz from JVC does correct these errors - and it does very good job. Not sure if it sacrifices vertical resolution - cause this isn't something that needs to happen - its all up to TV set and maybe TV stations reduced resolution too but definitely not home computers/consoles - it is not needed and circuit to not do that is much simpler. Otherwise general topic of PAL vs NTSC I always chose when I can NTSC color for old computer/consoles simply because its more consistent and lower resolution can be an advantage if I am already using composite over RGB or S-Video for composite effect. Also some systems like NES and SNES have perfect internal resolution for NTSC - matching pixels perfectly. PAL - not so much... though I must admit back in the day I didn't complain about PALs tendency to make every other line different. In C64 which I have as my main C64 which is Ultimate 64 I use NTSC at 50Hz - so pretty much 288p with NTSC colors. In this system I also like to set palette more similar to one from US which is much more vibrant. The effect of every second line having different color doesn't exist there but yeah, the monitor I most often use which is the JVC I mentioned wouldn't display it either.

    • @xsc1000
      @xsc1000 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      No, thats not how it works. Only few TV sets in 60s didnt have delay line. All sets from 70s, 80s had it except some professional monitors. Visible error between 2 next lines in picture from VHS and home computers is in fact created by this delay line correcting circuit. Because this delay line circuit expects precise chroma frequency. But computers or VHS has no precise chroma frequency (even they are based on crystal oscillator), so the delay line is creating errors, because due to wrong frequency the delayed signal is not in correct phase with signal from current line. Only the TV sets that used CCD delay line working in baseband (Philips IC TDA 4661 and similar), not in chroma frequency can correct this error right.
      As for resolution - PAL signal was broadcasted from TV station with full resolution. If you used PAL-S decoding (decoding without delay-line) you got full resolution on screen, but with visible line to line phase errors. This way was used in TV studios, because there was no problem with correct phase. If you used PAL-D decoding (with delay line), vertical resolution was reduced - this was used in all home TV sets.

    • @e8root
      @e8root 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@xsc1000 Thanks for detailed response. I was not quite sure about some details but at least I got some things right. In practice I never noticed this reduced vertical resolution but on the other hand higher horizontal resolution led to less grain and I also don't ever remember any color phase errors on PAL. NTSC for today's purposes of like old consoles/computers is ok - though still its not quite clear if hue is just right. In this case it being slightly wrong isn't an issue. For things like video it however is quite annoying like I some time ago watched LaserDisk and I could not help myself to spend few minutes to correct hue to annoyance of everyone. Later NTSC TV sets apparently had some systems to auto-correct these things so it might have been not so bad as it might seem. Otherwise if I had to correct hue all the time switching channels it would be quite irritating.

  • @MrLandphill
    @MrLandphill 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    all new parts, woohoo

  • @noahater5785
    @noahater5785 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I wonder what caused that resistor to fail?

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That is the question! I really don't have any way to tell but I can say that the issue first started at the same time the deflection yoke shorted out. I guess it's possible that the yoke failing caused voltage regulation issues elsewhere on the board and the resistor was the first thing to pop? Nothing else appears to be affected. It will be interesting to see if the fix is permanent. If it fails again in the future I guess I'll be measuring current draw at/around the IC :P

    • @xsc1000
      @xsc1000 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@retrobitstv I dont think it has any connection with deflection yokes. This resistor was completly blown up, so I would expect short circuit - probably shorted blocking ceramic or electrolytic capacitor. So it can return back.

  • @jdmcs
    @jdmcs 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Pink can stand down from your monitor encroaching on her trademark...

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Haha, yea now I just have to worry about Pink Floyd coming after me for 'Any Colour You Like' :)

  • @arnolda.lampel6087
    @arnolda.lampel6087 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'm having some problems with my 1084D 😭
    Everything RGB is fine, but on Composite Signal the Image becomes super dark after a while, probably temperature related.
    Fault must be somewhere around/before the TDA3507 circuitry.....I think 🤔🙄

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Huh yea, when I see faults that are variable in nature I usually start with looking at the capacitors but it could be a transistor or one of the passives as well. Good luck fixing it, it can be a chore to keep these things running but it's great when you finally track down the issue!

  • @FastJack42
    @FastJack42 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I wonder if someone tried rebuilding the 1084 PCB from scratch. Since people are rebuilding all Commodore hardware (computers, floppy drives, expansions) it is probably only a matter of time until somebody does it...

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I haven't heard of any such project. Fortunately the caps don't tend to leak on these monitors so PCB damage isn't common. The biggest issues are failed flybacks and deflection yokes. The former are still available, although the prices are getting steep. The yokes are not, so once that part goes, you've basically got a boat anchor (or a parts monitor, as in my case).

  • @KeritechElectronics
    @KeritechElectronics 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Burned out and resisting way too much... Resistance is futile!

  • @senilyDeluxe
    @senilyDeluxe 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I sunk... I don't know, around 20 hours into an 1802 with the same issue. It started out having no vertical deflection, as all of those do, because they all have the same capacitor that barfed up. Easy fix. But then, no color. No matter if S-Video or Composite. I'm in Germany, so it was a PAL machine. Guess what - there are no schematics for the PAL version and the pinout of the jungle IC is totally different.
    I've measured everything (voltages, components). It appeared as though the jungle IC says "this isn't a color signal at all!".
    If you force it to color (by overriding the B&W/color identifier pin), I got barberpoling colors. The frequency of the Quartz was pretty close. I managed to trim it so it barely stands still - but it would only decode blues and grayscale. Even yellow wasn't decoded (I've had a jungle IC fail the Q (or was it the I) portion that demodulates red/green).
    After lots of measurements, I concluded the jungle IC must be faulty. As luck would have it, just a few weeks later I came across an El-Cheapo TV sitting next to a dumpster - it had the same IC and was working fine. So I transplanted chips. Sad trombone. I swapped the delay line (remember, PAL). Sad trombone. (the cheap TV still had color).
    I did more measurements. Out of desperation, I looked at the outputs, there was one that was involved in enabling the color circuit, but the way it was depicted in the manual it was an output. Guess what - it was some kind of feedback circuit. There was a signal on it. There was a signal on every solder joint down the line - except the last one.
    The eyelet was cracked!
    Finally I had correct color!
    Couple weeks later at a different museum I saw some people trying to hack a Wii using a 1084. The picture also had no color. We tried different settings, tried switching TV systems on the Wii itself, no color. After like half an hour, I tried turning the color control, just for fun. It was set to zero.

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Haha the lengths we go through to preserve these monitors! Glad you finally found the problem, that was a weird failure mode alright!

  • @thiesenf
    @thiesenf 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    There's a reason to why we Europeans call it "Never The Same Color"... :-)

  • @Ironhorsecowboy58
    @Ironhorsecowboy58 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Do you have a link for the attachable probe connectors? thanks

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The ones I'm using are just generic push-clip types on both ends that I picked up at a Hamfest or something like that. They're not the fancy kind that slip on over the ends of the probes.

  • @sacredbanana
    @sacredbanana 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How feasible would it be to add some PAL components and add a PAL/NTSC switch?

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      From what @xsc1000 mentioned in another comment, the PAL version of the decoder chip expects a delay line circuit that isn't present so it would work but not as intended. That's not to say it couldn't also be added though.

  • @superdupertyson
    @superdupertyson 25 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I have a pink hue on my PAL CRT and theres no hue adjustment.. I've heard a rejuvinator might help but im not sure. have any ideas?

  • @infinitecanadian
    @infinitecanadian 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You should try to fix the parts unit.

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      The only thing wrong with it is the flyback is starting to go and the deflection yoke is completely shot. Flybacks are still available but the prices have shot up. The yoke, on the other hand, cannot be replaced. Repair might be possible but it's *very* fiddly.

    • @infinitecanadian
      @infinitecanadian 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@retrobitstv It'd be nice to see.

  • @svenvandevelde1
    @svenvandevelde1 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Could the same issue appear with pal monitors? It was a bit hard to follow, the explanation of pal.

    • @retrobitstv
      @retrobitstv  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Check out the first paragraph of the datasheet at 06:21. The TDA4750 is pin-compatible with the 4510 which is the PAL version of the chip. I *suspect* that you could convert an NTSC 1084 to PAL simply by swapping this chip. Something to test in the future. PAL models won't have the Hue pot or resistor network at all, but this same failure could absolutely occur if the resistor or other component providing power to the chip itself failed.

    • @svenvandevelde1
      @svenvandevelde1 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@retrobitstv aha! Thank you. I also own a 1084

    • @xsc1000
      @xsc1000 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@retrobitstv TDA4510 expects delay line circuit that is not present in TDA4570 (pins 4,5,6). So if you swap those ICs and X-tal, it would work as PAL-S decoder (decoder without delay line) but the saturation would be half of the NTSC.

  • @robertgaines-tulsa
    @robertgaines-tulsa 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    ElectroBOOM's insanity sound has nothing on yours. Considering the age of your monitor I wouldn't do as much as fart near it. CRT's are known to arc. 🤣

  • @watchmakerful
    @watchmakerful 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The resistor network is OK, the input voltage is OK, the output voltage is wrong. The only possibility is a short circuit at the output, i. e. inside the decoder chip (possibly, the previous one).
    PS, that burnt resistor also makes sense.

  • @sunderark
    @sunderark 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You misread 15khz as 15mhz haha

  • @EdwinNoorlander
    @EdwinNoorlander 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    NTSC Not The Same Color?

  • @genevievehoulton5433
    @genevievehoulton5433 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Awesome video, have you got my invitation of 4K digital microscope via email?

  • @LetsPlayKeldeo
    @LetsPlayKeldeo 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Because its a girl :) Congrats !

  • @Verault
    @Verault 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Again.. Saying "this" Ad nauseum jumped the shark.... terribly. Which is a Shame because you make great videos.

    • @BumdanglerFartbiscuit
      @BumdanglerFartbiscuit 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      My God, man, how little do you have going on in your life for someone saying the word "this", one of the most common words in the English language, to bother you *this* much?
      Sorry, I said "this", hope you're not mad. Oh dear, I said it again. This is hard! OH NO, I CAN'T STOP