When watching from T90's perspective, the removal of Viper's personality shows a ruthless and ultra skilled player. From his close perspective, he is just a playful and approachable boi.
Exactly. I first saw Viper's games many years ago, long before he had a channel of his own. I figured he was some sort of ruthless gamer bro in his mid-30s who had been playing the game as an adult from the day it was released. Needless to say, I had imagined him completely wrong.
Feitorias are a really nice gimmick. I think they'd be great in big team games. Imagine having your team protect you while you put 180 pop into 9 feitorias. That alongside a market and 20 vills dedicated to building walls and towers, and you have your team a dedicated resource generator and indefinite tower expansion/territory control. Anyone who needs to be given a bunch of a resource could easily get it.
Also in those big team games, I'm pretty sure you can technically friendly fire your teammates if you told your units to. In essence, you could have your teammates loan you gold and stone to build feitorias in their area so that they can convert the building. This would allow your team to own possibly infinite feitorias, that is if you can convert even if you have max population already.
writing in the hope that @Spirit Of The Law will read here: The new Feitoria numbers may have already been calculated, however... Has the comparison included either analytical graphs of the resources gathered of villagers vs a Feitoria over time, you know, similar to the graphs to calculate the time to get a return of investment of adding additional TC's? Main important differences I see in practice, beyond villager resource gather speed averages, is that a) it takes different time and resources to produce 20 villagers than to build a Feitoria. This can be easily calculated analytically, and be done, marginally vs more holistic approaches including everything after castle age (when a player can choose between adding more TC's (with one civ exception) or go for imperial age and start building Feitoria) or even sooner, as the vil count would be different for fast imp. b) As time goes on, the scarcity of resources like gold and stone would matter quite a bit. IF from a) depending what is found from a), then we may see that in practical / realistic scenarios it may show complex patters such as: good at first, bad in the middle and good towards the end, the longer a game runs. c) the walking needed to get the resources and building camps to gather or farmers should be taken into account in those calculations or re-done experimentally? d) how can one account for the intangibles such as: - not having to control or oversee villagers - easier protection from raiding
Feitoria is a GOOD alternative! Not working as fast as 20 vills but makes you independent of mines. If they run out they still produce rescources. They are also faster to build than to creat equal vils! I think They are useful in: - Very early imp (fast building time, pop not maxed anyways) - Late post-imp (no mines remaining - gold income is paramount. stone too) Mid imp they should be outclassed by the same pop-amount of villagers giving the Feitoria the disadvantage. REALLY interesting! I'm curious how this will play out ;)
Leaving the same comment I left on T90s video, simple copy+pasta:) I would like to get opinions on this/ to start a discussion Fast imp strats are always vulnurable if you can defend for long enough. At some point, if one can defend the agression, the economy of the opponent is just to much. However, for portuguese, you can build 3 feitorias instantly if you have the ressources in imp and gain a short term (but inefficient) boost "in villagers". The ressources from it are not worth 20 vills (lets say it is worth 10 pop space), but these villagers take time to be produced at the towncenter(s) (which also hinders yourself from going up as you invest research time and res). The feitoria gives you another short time spike, not in power, but in economy for imperial. Your imp military should do a lot of damage, but you can extend the timewindow a little bit with the help of feitorias. Instantly getting ~30 vills will make your eco even stronger than the booming foe in castle age. Also it is really good that food production is abundant from the feitoria, your remaining vils can focus on construction and gathering wood. Wood which is necessary for the production of bombard cannons. Fast imp Portuguese might be better than fast imp turks, or at least has less risk involved.
Long term the Portuguese player would be punished by having not enough pop space for amry or a bad eco. So this strategy could be countered maybe by early pressure or full booking into turtle until 100 villager pop and which point the feitoria eco can't keep up
@@Zebrastreifen77 of course, fast imp into feitoria is more or less an all-in strategy. Basically, you boom up faster but after your initial attack, your economy falls off big time
A feitoria equals about 13-14 villager but it of course depends on upgrades and idle time. The strength is that you get endless resources and when you build a feitoria you also are getting 14 villager in a much faster rate than producing them in the town center, making you boom faster. They also cant be harassed and never idle and you also dont have to control the map to get resources. They also cost half the resources of 20 villagers although it is more valuable resources but since gold and stone are mostly valuable because they run out, and with feitoria they dont, it becomes less of an issue. Another benefit is that you dont have to make farms that cost some wood and you can skip a lot of economic techs. Overall i would say feitoria rush is very much worth it since you can boom your economy very cheap and fast in imperial, and the endless resources make it so you can win in a war of attrition with ease and your opponent will have trouble pushing since you have a lot of stone that can be used for defense. I honestly dont see any counter to this strategy other than trying to pressure Portugal before imperial but that can be hard depending on civ and map, especially consider that Portugal dont actually need to have a lot of territory which is the main win condition for many of the more aggressive tactics. The only drawback is of course that you will have a lesser army count than your opponent but with an expensive small army and a lot of defensive buildings, you can easily hold against bigger armies and eventually they run out of gold and you basically win. Taking relics should be a priority with this tactic since you want to starve the opponent with gold and the extra gold for yourself is nice too.
I think feitorias might be a good addition to rush on top of a healthy amount of villagers to get the eco pop you want in the end and if the enemy raids and your villager count looks a little grim you can build more feitorias. And can't you just mix arbalest with hand cannoneers to make use of the feitora food while you are short on wood or is there a reason why this would be bad idea?
I look forward to seeing more fetorias Vipi! he only thing that gets my OCD running is that you built them in a places which block the back of your base. why not just build them at corners of your base so they can't be destroyed? also, yes the strat works but it's very lean. in a serious game, i would definitely pump any etra res towards halbs, just to be on the safe side.
Might want to start by throwing some hand cannons so you can get extra dps out and push a little sooner with a mix of crossbows rather than wait for the full archer upgrades. ~I wrote this when he started pumping out xbows, funny how he thinks the same thing at the end of the vid.
Hello, I'm a very noob and am wondering how can I select one full "side" of the arena walls, and not click the walls one by one (like Viper does at the beginning) Thanks !
@@shaunstevens4292 well so I have to position my screen so that only the walls I want to delete are selected when I double click ? Cause when I tried I selected the whole arena 11
I don't get why pro player skip on monks. To me the heal alone seems worth the cost, when you have arbalests, which are often confronted with low-dps skirmishers.
I'm pretty sure that youtube is far from enough. But a bit of youtube money, plus mixer, plus donations, plus winnning nearly 99% of all tournaments he plays for many years... yeah Viper should be fine :)
@@makzz6558 Can't tell. I am a recent watcher of TheViper. He just told in a couple of videos ago that leaving traditional work was the best decision he ever made.
Again, T90 the bastard uploaded this video before you did it, just like the 'me no pig' game with vivi. The monkael jackson at 17:04 is really a masterpiece by AOE2. LMAO
Disclaimer: bit drunk now. But damn i keep getting better at spotting what makes players insanely good. And I gotta say. just look at the accurasy of his clicks in the beginning. House placement just out of farm distance. Instant 2 sheep going to middle of town center. Scout from center screen patrolled to top of screen without oven flinching. in a matter of 1 or 2 seconds. Insane accurassy really. if you actually see this. Did you train your aim? Or is it just pure talent?
completely useless on multiplayer though. 10 vills chopping wood and 10 trade carts will produce like 4 times the wood/gold. for single player, it has its uses
When watching from T90's perspective, the removal of Viper's personality shows a ruthless and ultra skilled player. From his close perspective, he is just a playful and approachable boi.
insightful comment, very true.
Exactly. I first saw Viper's games many years ago, long before he had a channel of his own. I figured he was some sort of ruthless gamer bro in his mid-30s who had been playing the game as an adult from the day it was released. Needless to say, I had imagined him completely wrong.
Vaaaaat?! Scheisse!
@@ZPositive Badaboom! Dis iz muh Mastapiece.
@@ZPositive dude I love the Viper. hes so funny with his german
Viper won the game, but that moonwalking priest won our hearths
Yeah, is a old glitch, due to pick relics
My hearth is fiery.
I swear, Viper is really addicted to building Feitorias.
Are sexy
Feitorias are a really nice gimmick. I think they'd be great in big team games. Imagine having your team protect you while you put 180 pop into 9 feitorias. That alongside a market and 20 vills dedicated to building walls and towers, and you have your team a dedicated resource generator and indefinite tower expansion/territory control. Anyone who needs to be given a bunch of a resource could easily get it.
Also in those big team games, I'm pretty sure you can technically friendly fire your teammates if you told your units to. In essence, you could have your teammates loan you gold and stone to build feitorias in their area so that they can convert the building. This would allow your team to own possibly infinite feitorias, that is if you can convert even if you have max population already.
I like how you and T90 near simultaneously uploaded a video of the exact same game
biper stole it from t90
writing in the hope that @Spirit Of The Law will read here:
The new Feitoria numbers may have already been calculated, however...
Has the comparison included either analytical graphs of the resources gathered of villagers vs a Feitoria over time, you know, similar to the graphs to calculate the time to get a return of investment of adding additional TC's?
Main important differences I see in practice, beyond villager resource gather speed averages, is that
a) it takes different time and resources to produce 20 villagers than to build a Feitoria. This can be easily calculated analytically, and be done, marginally vs more holistic approaches including everything after castle age (when a player can choose between adding more TC's (with one civ exception) or go for imperial age and start building Feitoria) or even sooner, as the vil count would be different for fast imp.
b) As time goes on, the scarcity of resources like gold and stone would matter quite a bit. IF from a) depending what is found from a), then we may see that in practical / realistic scenarios it may show complex patters such as: good at first, bad in the middle and good towards the end, the longer a game runs.
c) the walking needed to get the resources and building camps to gather or farmers should be taken into account in those calculations or re-done experimentally?
d) how can one account for the intangibles such as:
- not having to control or oversee villagers
- easier protection from raiding
T90's view, now TheViper's view.
17:04 Moonwalk monk
"Monkel Jackson" as T90 call them :)
lol
This needs to be in SoTF video intro
I watched this game, just 10min ago!
Feitoria is a GOOD alternative! Not working as fast as 20 vills but makes you independent of mines. If they run out they still produce rescources. They are also faster to build than to creat equal vils!
I think They are useful in:
- Very early imp (fast building time, pop not maxed anyways)
- Late post-imp (no mines remaining - gold income is paramount. stone too)
Mid imp they should be outclassed by the same pop-amount of villagers giving the Feitoria the disadvantage. REALLY interesting! I'm curious how this will play out ;)
Too risky, still feits are good in island maps
I think Feitoria meta is more secure on isolated/protected starts. Be it in walled games or islands.
also, they make up for their own cost more quickly than town centers do
Vill moonwalking @ 9:51
0:07 "I'm gonna dominate! We're gonna- oh shit, malay"
Leaving the same comment I left on T90s video, simple copy+pasta:) I would like to get opinions on this/ to start a discussion
Fast imp strats are always vulnurable if you can defend for long enough. At some point, if one can defend the agression, the economy of the opponent is just to much. However, for portuguese, you can build 3 feitorias instantly if you have the ressources in imp and gain a short term (but inefficient) boost "in villagers". The ressources from it are not worth 20 vills (lets say it is worth 10 pop space), but these villagers take time to be produced at the towncenter(s) (which also hinders yourself from going up as you invest research time and res). The feitoria gives you another short time spike, not in power, but in economy for imperial. Your imp military should do a lot of damage, but you can extend the timewindow a little bit with the help of feitorias. Instantly getting ~30 vills will make your eco even stronger than the booming foe in castle age.
Also it is really good that food production is abundant from the feitoria, your remaining vils can focus on construction and gathering wood. Wood which is necessary for the production of bombard cannons.
Fast imp Portuguese might be better than fast imp turks, or at least has less risk involved.
Long term the Portuguese player would be punished by having not enough pop space for amry or a bad eco.
So this strategy could be countered maybe by early pressure or full booking into turtle until 100 villager pop and which point the feitoria eco can't keep up
@@Zebrastreifen77 of course, fast imp into feitoria is more or less an all-in strategy. Basically, you boom up faster but after your initial attack, your economy falls off big time
Viper should charge T90 royalties ;)
Nah it only helps both and the scene^^
A feitoria equals about 13-14 villager but it of course depends on upgrades and idle time. The strength is that you get endless resources and when you build a feitoria you also are getting 14 villager in a much faster rate than producing them in the town center, making you boom faster. They also cant be harassed and never idle and you also dont have to control the map to get resources. They also cost half the resources of 20 villagers although it is more valuable resources but since gold and stone are mostly valuable because they run out, and with feitoria they dont, it becomes less of an issue. Another benefit is that you dont have to make farms that cost some wood and you can skip a lot of economic techs. Overall i would say feitoria rush is very much worth it since you can boom your economy very cheap and fast in imperial, and the endless resources make it so you can win in a war of attrition with ease and your opponent will have trouble pushing since you have a lot of stone that can be used for defense. I honestly dont see any counter to this strategy other than trying to pressure Portugal before imperial but that can be hard depending on civ and map, especially consider that Portugal dont actually need to have a lot of territory which is the main win condition for many of the more aggressive tactics. The only drawback is of course that you will have a lesser army count than your opponent but with an expensive small army and a lot of defensive buildings, you can easily hold against bigger armies and eventually they run out of gold and you basically win. Taking relics should be a priority with this tactic since you want to starve the opponent with gold and the extra gold for yourself is nice too.
Those monks are doing the moonwalk! 17:07
I think feitorias might be a good addition to rush on top of a healthy amount of villagers to get the eco pop you want in the end and if the enemy raids and your villager count looks a little grim you can build more feitorias. And can't you just mix arbalest with hand cannoneers to make use of the feitora food while you are short on wood or is there a reason why this would be bad idea?
That monk just did the longest moonwalk I have ever seen!
Dat monk moonwalk was 🔥🔥🔥
I've been searching for this game, so thx for uploading this video. love U Viper!
TheViper2020
"I told them this would happen."
Psychologist: the Monk Jackson is not real.
The Monk Jackson: 17:05
17:02 Yes Viper, they are here to teach you the Gospel of the Maroon Moon-Walking Monks.. 1111
The moonwalking monk 17:04
That freak me out!! Haha
Viper: we are gonna dominate
*1 sec later
Viper: oh shit malay
11
17:08 First time I saw Michael Jackson dance
Me thinking of viper as
" OK I got two lamas in North five in South two boars in east "
Viper at 5:49
"oh I have a boar I got second boar "
I look forward to seeing more fetorias Vipi!
he only thing that gets my OCD running is that you built them in a places which block the back of your base. why not just build them at corners of your base so they can't be destroyed?
also, yes the strat works but it's very lean. in a serious game, i would definitely pump any etra res towards halbs, just to be on the safe side.
damn those monks had some sick moves!
Double university rush
Chaos god Apep vs crocodile-headed deity colorized.
Might want to start by throwing some hand cannons so you can get extra dps out and push a little sooner with a mix of crossbows rather than wait for the full archer upgrades.
~I wrote this when he started pumping out xbows, funny how he thinks the same thing at the end of the vid.
"Are u not entertained ?!"
Viper, what do you think about Feitorias at this moment? Are they well balanced or still need small adjustments? Maybe raise the wood income?
I think are just fine, cause if give mire resources could get OP
think not many people can get the correct balance about villagers, armies and feitoria. Viper masters it!
so glad I can see your POV
Why does Viper say "we're on a time limit?" Does this strat not work if the game goes late?
The fucking moonwalking monk at 17:00 OMG
Hello, I'm a very noob and am wondering how can I select one full "side" of the arena walls, and not click the walls one by one (like Viper does at the beginning)
Thanks !
double click the wall. All wall objects on the screen will be selected.
@@shaunstevens4292 well so I have to position my screen so that only the walls I want to delete are selected when I double click ? Cause when I tried I selected the whole arena 11
@@pydu91 Yes, screen position is critical. The double click will grab everything on the screen.
@@shaunstevens4292 ok many thanks !
I watched this video from 2 perspectives
That was amazing!
I don't get why pro player skip on monks. To me the heal alone seems worth the cost, when you have arbalests, which are often confronted with low-dps skirmishers.
Feitoria max out the working population so fast and save time to focus on the economy
Moonwalk monk xD
viper needs to nda t90 on these spectacular games so that people see this first.
It’s pronounced “fay-tow-REE-ah”!!
Michael Jackson monks 17:02
I wish I hadn't seen t90's vid before yours
Florentin loves this
Question to the Viper: Do you actually make a living out of your TH-cam-Channel?
I'm pretty sure that youtube is far from enough. But a bit of youtube money, plus mixer, plus donations, plus winnning nearly 99% of all tournaments he plays for many years... yeah Viper should be fine :)
He recently quit his job, so I would believe he is confident to survive on his hobby.
He makes a living streaming, some of which he uploads to youtube.
@@makzz6558 Can't tell. I am a recent watcher of TheViper. He just told in a couple of videos ago that leaving traditional work was the best decision he ever made.
Fetoria mastarpiece
Jesus Christ, Castle Age sub 16 minutes....
Way to much food sunk into the elephants.
Yes he could go PPPPPP-aladin
Haha this Monk :D
Unlimited Feitorias is unfair
Feitoria = Attrition Win in my mind.
only stone is the advantage of pretoria
Should the elephants had get out by the southern gate and make bulge???? Anyways loosing that castle was a big issue
I wish arena was a HC3 map
Malay eles same cost as knights, should have got those instead
gg too fast, I don't understand why he give up so fast.
Again, T90 the bastard uploaded this video before you did it, just like the 'me no pig' game with vivi.
The monkael jackson at 17:04 is really a masterpiece by AOE2. LMAO
Disclaimer: bit drunk now.
But damn i keep getting better at spotting what makes players insanely good. And I gotta say. just look at the accurasy of his clicks in the beginning. House placement just out of farm distance. Instant 2 sheep going to middle of town center. Scout from center screen patrolled to top of screen without oven flinching. in a matter of 1 or 2 seconds. Insane accurassy really.
if you actually see this. Did you train your aim? Or is it just pure talent?
fay-too-REE-uh
Noob didn't gg 😛
D.va is broken now btw Viper 3s boosters
Moonkwalk
completely useless on multiplayer though. 10 vills chopping wood and 10 trade carts will produce like 4 times the wood/gold. for single player, it has its uses
FIMPF
Topezo. Kia. Ego
arbaLEET
Bruh you cant go paladin, Porto doesnt hav eit.
Do you ever get worried that T90 gets more views, or do you still get more viewers because of the publicity he brings to you as a player?
Didnt say gg afterwards... shame on you silverboi
O the outrage!
I've come to the conclusion that HCs suck
Too risky, dont worth in every play
viper clowning on someone no where near his level. Doesn't help the game :(