It wouldn't be an Unlucky Tug video if I didn't forget something! 🤦♂ One North Western character I did miss was Sonny. Sonny was introduced in Season 24, and is based on the real life Haydock Foundry well-tank locomotives. One survives named "Bellerophon", and can be found on the Foxfield Railway in the UK. Sonny is numbered 1842, and I'm not completely sure what it's in reference to. The well-tanks were all built between 1868 and 1887. It may be a nod to the year his type of valve gear was first implemented on locomotives, but I'm probably wrong about that. If you know the reason, comment below!
@@Shark_Builds_Bro I don't think he counted them as they didn't appear in any TV episodes. They were exclusive to being on the main TTTE TH-cam channel in promotion of their books which came with them as Wooden Railway toys. Logan, Sam, and Dustin were just another example of being merchandise only characters.
I don’t know if Sonny’s number could mean anything. All I can think of is that it might just be a random number the team came up with. Someone probably has a better theory than me that they’ll share down the comments.
Yeah. This is why the franchise should've remained for general audiences. If it should ever be a preschool franchise, it should've at least been as family-oriented as Bluey. Too bad that Mattel only treats him like a generic baby toy, but at least we have Marc Forster working on a future film.
24:41 Rebecca is definitely the most complex member of the Steam Team when it comes to numbers, which is ironic considering that as a character she isn’t all that complex
If we accept that Rebecca is based on the Southern Railway's 'West Country' Class engines, No. (340)22 was named 'Exmoor' in real life, and was withdrawn from service by British Railways in April 1965 (and scrapped within four months), so did really well to resurface on the North Western all those years later...
@@ex48bw Completely plausible reason but not a good reason, if they had chosen 21 or 23 nothing would really have changed (apart from 23 still existing so probably would have been a better pick).
I do appreciate how apparently Sir Topham Hatt actively buys locomotives that nobody else wants, so many were either experimental designs, modified versions of existing locomotives, or were slated to be scrapped.
railway manager: this engine is bad! we will send you to the scrapyard! the engine: nooooooo! *STH pops up* STH: hello I would like to purchase this engine railway manager: ok
Diesel 10 wasn't actually named Diesel 10 because he was the 10th Diesel introduced, that was merely fan speculation. Britt Allcroft said that the name just popped into her head
After all these years, I'm still surprised that Sir Topham Hatt had originally bought Gordon to replace Henry, who refused to leave the tunnel. This must have affected the dynamic and relationship between Henry and Gordon in the early years.
It also gives depth to why Gordon gets so insecure when Henry gets fixed. Since Henry could do his original job now, Gordon could see himself as surplus, taken off the Express or even off the railway, though Sir Topham seemed to prefer the current setup.
@@e-122psi3 makes sense when you think about it, I mean why get rid of one mainline engine when he can have two that can pull coaches and freight together
I literally haven't touched this series in almost thirty years, and I did not realize how much lore there actually was surrounding the engines. This is amazing.
Yeah, I'm the same! I watched this as a kid, born the same year it first aired as well as my dad actually working for Hunslet Engine Company and I've seen spots through the years here and there, Magic Railway catching my eye at a local cinema when I was holiday in Mablethorpe one time! I saw an episode of All Engines Go and thought my drink had been spiked and when you consider I live alone... When Tug came into my feed and I delved a little into it, I started to wonder if there were any of their locomotives in the show! So far we've had parts!
Little obscure things like the engines numbers having meaning is one the things I love about Thomas and Friends. It shows that it was made with a lot of thought, and that this franchise is more important than people realize.
It's so refreshing these days to just see new uploads without a scheduled future premiere-date. I know that we've sometimes seen these on your channel, but there's a much more enjoyable feeling that comes with simply seeing a new video appear that I can immediately click on and watch. Teasing what the video could be through community posts serving as a preview also adds to the fun
The reason Boco is D5702 in the first place is also interesting. The number of the two-rail version of the Co-Bo produced by Hornby-Dublo was D5702. Awdry had this model and it would have been the reference model for the illustrations, hence the number being used.
Bro, this was such a nostalgia trip. I grew up on Thomas, so it was neat being reminded of characters like "oh, it's that guy!" or "oh, it's him." I'm glad Adventure Begins was covered, as I find that an amazing retelling of the first few stories and I wish there was more. I like the origins background and speculation as well. I'll have to check out your other stuff, too!
In a lot of places engines were only given names in the early days of railways. Most railway companies only gave their engines numbers by the 1850s, 1860s or even later.
@@Daan_0172Many smaller or industrial railways also didn't bother with numbering, they were more likely to just name the engines either officially or unofficially.
On one hand, I really wish we got to learn why Philip was numbered 68, I think it is kind of sweet that Philip learned that it doesn’t really matter, and instead just found his own meaning in the number. Plus, leaving it vague means that you can come up with your own interpretation. (Then again, judging but effect, Philip didn’t know why that was his number, it was probably saying mundane like just being the 68th engine built by his workshop in America.)
i used to think all of the ttte engines numbers were random or ones from real life besides the main 11, but it's interesting to learn them all and their meanings
Fun Fact: There is a preserved Class 101 DMU that was named after Daisy; D101685. Apparently, she is on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway. Edit: Also, you may have missed Lexi, who wears 21 on her cab.
5:11 I know Tug usually takes issues with the engines of Sodor being experimental or prototype engines, though my personal headcannon for Thomas was that he was a slightly smaller E2 prototype (which I call the E2.2) with a shortened wheelbase and boiler that was supposed to fix the flaws the larger ones had. (Explaining both his smaller look in the later books and his smaller size to Gordon unlike the real E2, which is huge as Tug pointed out in his Thomas model video) However despite this experimental E2's success, it was deemed uneconomical to convert or build more of these engines, thus Thomas was kept a secret from the public eye and sent to Sodor where the LB&SCR promptly and quietly covered up his entire existence as a wartime casualty before his purchase by The Fat Director.
I say Thomas was actually a Furness Railway G5 tanker one-off (which the manufacturers mistook for an E2), and was brought to Sodor around the same time as Edward.
This backstory actually isn’t all that far-fetched tbh, Richard Maunsell actually proposed a design of 0-6-0 tank engines based on the E2s in 1927 but the design was later cancelled due to financial concerns, maybe Thomas could be the long lost prototype of this design?
Not associated with numbers and anything, but I'd like to think that Henry was something like The Great Bear in comparison. A failed Pacific turned into a functional 4-6-0.
@@russellgxy2905this actually has some precedent considering that Reginald Payne (one of the early RWS illustrators) seems to have based his sketches of Henry on the Great Bear
@@xavierjuno4572 Surprised that Awdry didn't tell Dalby to change Henry's golden funnel cap into a regular one in "Thomas and the Guard", despite how much of a sucker of consistency Awdry was. But honestly, I really like this touch. I'd like to think that Henry was, in some way, a sibling to The Great Bear, which was made by the same person who held a grudge towards Gresley with their Pacific. Note that I was inspired to make this comment due a reddit illustration post. I honestly like that OP's idea, considering I have never really thought of his history like that before.
Be patient, be patient. I’m willing to bet we’ll get SF episodes on Emily (Tug was complimentary of what Season 8 did with her and I’m interested in seeing which era between the Gullane, HiT, and CGI eras wins), Donald and Douglas (RWS solos this one; this could also allow for Tug to vent about what went wrong with TVS Donald and Douglas after Season 6), and a wild card like… I dunno, Paxton (Tug touched on him in Diesel’s installment, but I’d love to see a longer episode about how Brenner saved him from being just a Dodge standin).
This show taught me how to count, I'm being serious It also taught me my colors, I grew up when Murdoch, Molly, and Lady were brand new and were shown off a lot, which filled in orange, yellow, and purple
“So there are three certainty in life, Death, Taxes and, Engine Numbers” What a Way to Kick off the first Big Video this year on The Unlucky Tug Channel
Something interesting about Donald and Douglas is that, their numbers did Technically belong to actual engines 17646 and 17647 were the first of the Caledonian Railway class 30 built, which was just a superheated version of the 812s/625s
I just realized bear , boco and daisy have numbers similarly to Thomas , Edward and Henry who are in fact close with them as well since daisy works on Thomas’s branchline , boco on edwards and bear first befriended Henry when he arrived on the NWR
I have a funny image in my head that the reason Dennis got sold off to Sodor is because he was too lazy to do what his prototype model was designed for, and that'a why they made Norman later, because they wanted to try again and have an engine tat ran Speaking of I just love how many characters work with their basises, Rosie for example is based on an engine that worked with the e2 engines, so her being a thomas fan makes sense, though in cases like Dennis and Whiff it seems like pure irony. Whiff being a pristene private engine working in a waste dump, and Dennis supposedly being a fast and effecient diesel being lazy.
When I tell you I punched air when I heard Neville and Arthur, I PUNCHED AIR. I'm so glad the two of them were featured, I immediatly recognised Neville's number too! And hearing about Bear and Boco was a pleasant surprise. This video was so well done and, again, I learnt a lot more than I thought I would! Keep up the amazing work :)
35:57 XD that closeup shot of Gordon looking at the left side of view annoyed and jealous with his brother's fame killed me. Great video Tug as always!
Me personally I like the idea that Ryan's 10/14 was based on the date he was thought of making it October 14th 2014. Also it would be cool if Charlie was actually based off that first engine considering the fact it was from the nitrogen era.
Greetings from Cape Town, South Africa. I recognise the whistle from engine number 18 in this video as most of our steam locos back in steam days had one that sounds like this. I also love Stepney's whistle in this video.
I also find it odd that Hiro's final epsiode aired in 2020. The same year that the real D51-51 was scrapped. Good thing the planned special with Thomas visiting Japan never got made. He wouldn't be able to handle learning what happened to Hiro.
Considering how little the team cared about Thomas around DOTD, I would not be suprised at all if they just thought ''ah a lot of real engines have number 6120 let's throw that number onto Belle too''
"I WANTED AN ATLANTIC! BUT THAT ************** SENT ME THAT!!!!" if only George Carlin said that when he narrated the show, and we saw that as an outtake. (also, you kinda forgot Lexi)
What a way to start the new year, and I’m all for it. I gotta say, Bruce Alexander is a pretty stellar narrator for the RWS. It’s also crazy he’s the first to narrate *all* of Wilbert’s 26 books! Will there be a RWS / T&F Narrator Ranking in the future?
I think you skipped over a diesel engine’s number who is also a Class 40. His number is 40125 which is “Old Stuck Up” who appears in the first story of the RWS 28th book which is frankly called “Old Stuck Up” He was first built in December 1960 with 1955 BR Number D325, before getting renumbered in TOPS in 1974 to 40125. 7 years later he was withdrawn in 31st Máy 1981 before getting scrapped for spares in Swindon in December 1983.
In November, DragonWolf284 and I talked about Duck's number and they found Duck's possible real Number! He's actually not 5741, but 5766! He was allocated to the London Reading shed as a London Paddington station pilot. When at Swindon Works with the real 5741, their number plates got switched.
56:30 Speaking of Bill & Ben. They might have not had numbers in the TV series but through seasons 2 and 3 they had builder's plates. At least Bill did. Ben for some odd reason wasn't filmed in a way to show them, if he had any at all. And I have evidence that Bill did have them.
Oh and oddly enough, I can only confirm that he had them on his right side. I think he had them on the left, but the one photo I have with his left, it kinda looks like a big smudge. Maybe from the edge plates. Idk. But he does or did have them or one.
But it's odd how that smudge looking thing on his left is in the exact position where his builder's plate would sit. That is just too suspicious and too perfect.
It's good to see a new Unlucky Tug video after coming from the church. More casual videos like this one are quite neat. They're like a gasptake before more bigger video (Sodor's Finest, or The Thomas Retrospective).
I always wanted Weird Al to play Harvey because 27 is a number Al often references and Harvey is the name of a hamster in various projects by Al, in addition to the name of the uncle of Al’s character in UHF.
At 43:25, that's Terence Cuneo making sketches for his "Night Freight" oil painting, made popular as the cover of the 1972 Triang-Hornby catalogue. What a lovely piece of railway art history.
I always figured that since the Terriers were duplicate listed and given the prefix "6" before their original numbers, to make room for newer locomotives. The number 70 for Thomas was plausible. Also by the time Thomas was built, Poplar had already been sold to the Rother Valley Railyway/KESR as their #5 Bodiam.
Did some quick research on Ryan, turns out his basis was spefically on GNR N2/1 number 1744. I'm guessing the production team just took the number 1744 and swapped it around with 1014? I could be wrong on that.
13:22 After looking through the BR database, the only 57xx I could find that worked in London was 5764, built the same year as 5741. I don’t know if I'm the first to come up with this theory, but in my head-cannon these two were overhauled around the same time as each other and their numbers were carelessly switched.
If that engine was built at Swindon, maybe that’s Duck’s true identity then. Edit: oh wait, that’s a preserved engine. I don’t like interfering with real preserved engines.
@@joshuaW5621 Well, Arthur's concept art depicted him with the number 41241, a preserved Ivatt 2MT preserved on the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway, so they could be the same engine. Who knows? Maybe since the 5741 swapped their nameplate with Duck and this went unnoticed even after Duck was sold to the NWR, 5741 might’ve been preserved on the Severn Valley Railway instead of 5764.
@@davinsmith7543 that theory makes me feel a bit better. Maybe this could be legit. As for Arthur, I really don’t like the idea of him being 41241 since that engine was the Keighley and Worth Valley’s flagship engine. He made that railway as big as it is today, so I’d rather try keeping things accurate as possible in my headcanon and have Arthur be one of the scrapped members of the class.
Fun fact: According to Emily's concept art, she was featured with a number, but they never implemented it. I'm surprised that they decided to add her number later in the series instead of at the start. It would've made sense that if she were bought by the NWR, she would have a number. Another fun fact about Emily is that the inspiration her whistle sound effect at the beginning came from a Barney & Friends special.
I suspect Ryan's number may be a reference to the new-build Great Western County 4-6-0, 1014 County Of Glamorgan. They may have done this to promote this locomotive?
With a video like this, all those parents that apparently can't count when it comes to Thomas characters (saying Edward is Gordon and Henry is Emily and who the flip is Oliver that's Percy!) now have a decent guide on a good portion of the engines. I sure enjoyed this video and I sometimes think the reason why the engines got progressively bigger with wider and wider gaps inbetween is to subtly indicate that Sodor has dozens and dozens of engines many of whom we never met. Awdry himself did say the NWR has over 80 different engines in total, steam, diesel and electric. Overall, I think engine numbers are just fun. Some numbers are even shared by multiple different engines and others can have a hidden meaning. I know there are many GWR engines out there have the same numbers as many of the houses in my neighborhood. Plenty of other engines have years for numbers.
This was such an interesting one to watch! I like how almost all of these characters had a number that was a reference to something or well given for an actual reason. I think the most surprising thing I learned from this was that Ryan and Belle stumped you! I liked learning about the histories of some of these characters and learning some things about the real-life counterparts. Nice job, Tug! Can't wait to see what's next!
32:27 I noticed that one of the N2s in this photo wears the number 1614, so my (probably flimsy) theory is that the designer misinterpreted it as 1014 and put that number on Ryan instead.
Absolutely insane theory but hear me out: What if Ryan's number is a reference to the amount of characters from the Brenner Era up to that point, and also the amount of returning characters in the Brenner Era up to that point, the 10 as a reference to the new characters, and the 14 as a reference to the returning characters? ...If you're curious: Stephen, Connor, Caitlin, Porter, Timothy, Gator, Marion, Samson, Glynn and Ryan for the new characters. Duck, Donald, Douglas, Oliver, Toad, Bill, Ben, Harvey, Duncan, Jack, Alfie, Oliver, Max and Monty for the returning ones.
the unlucky tug, i have a bit of a theory for what ryan's number means: so, when the class N2's were being scrapped, the first engine to be scrapped in the 50s was numbered 69510. and the last one to be scrapped in the 50s was numbered 69514. both of the last 2 digits makes ryan's number, 1014. sorry if it's a big assumption, but it's probably as big as the rebecca one
4:59 My personal interpretation of Thomas is that he's specifically No.105, which ties in, ironically, to No.100, as the first-of-class. This also means that Thomas is also technically a first-of-class engine, being the first LBSCR E2 built with extended side tanks.
I won’t say Ryan’s number CANT be a date, but it’s highly unlikely seeing as how in the British date convention 1014 would be the tenth day of the nonexistent 14th month
It wouldn't be an Unlucky Tug video if I didn't forget something! 🤦♂ One North Western character I did miss was Sonny.
Sonny was introduced in Season 24, and is based on the real life Haydock Foundry well-tank locomotives. One survives named "Bellerophon", and can be found on the Foxfield Railway in the UK. Sonny is numbered 1842, and I'm not completely sure what it's in reference to. The well-tanks were all built between 1868 and 1887. It may be a nod to the year his type of valve gear was first implemented on locomotives, but I'm probably wrong about that. If you know the reason, comment below!
Where was the Haydock Foundry even located?
Guess that's why you're called The Unlucky Tug
@@Shark_Builds_Bro I don't think he counted them as they didn't appear in any TV episodes. They were exclusive to being on the main TTTE TH-cam channel in promotion of their books which came with them as Wooden Railway toys. Logan, Sam, and Dustin were just another example of being merchandise only characters.
I don’t know if Sonny’s number could mean anything. All I can think of is that it might just be a random number the team came up with. Someone probably has a better theory than me that they’ll share down the comments.
He missed green arrow😢
The fact that these engines have real life numbers just shows how dedicated Awdry and the crew making the show were
I see your channel everywhere
True
So true! Unfortunately We got the reebot crapshit
Yeah. This is why the franchise should've remained for general audiences. If it should ever be a preschool franchise, it should've at least been as family-oriented as Bluey. Too bad that Mattel only treats him like a generic baby toy, but at least we have Marc Forster working on a future film.
@@sericsmith5770 Well said
24:41 Rebecca is definitely the most complex member of the Steam Team when it comes to numbers, which is ironic considering that as a character she isn’t all that complex
If we accept that Rebecca is based on the Southern Railway's 'West Country' Class engines, No. (340)22 was named 'Exmoor' in real life, and was withdrawn from service by British Railways in April 1965 (and scrapped within four months), so did really well to resurface on the North Western all those years later...
@@ex48bwwell we could go into alternative history and say that she was purchased after being withdrawn
@@ex48bw Completely plausible reason but not a good reason, if they had chosen 21 or 23 nothing would really have changed (apart from 23 still existing so probably would have been a better pick).
@@ex48bwyea true
@@ex48bwI thought the CGI series still stuck to the 60s/70s timing of the original series?
I do appreciate how apparently Sir Topham Hatt actively buys locomotives that nobody else wants, so many were either experimental designs, modified versions of existing locomotives, or were slated to be scrapped.
Probably cheaper than buying some of the newer stuff too so he's also saving money
railway manager: this engine is bad! we will send you to the scrapyard!
the engine: nooooooo!
*STH pops up*
STH: hello I would like to purchase this engine
railway manager: ok
Diesel 10 wasn't actually named Diesel 10 because he was the 10th Diesel introduced, that was merely fan speculation. Britt Allcroft said that the name just popped into her head
It fits,ten is a big number and he is a big engine
Donald and Douglas’s Caledonia numbers could be 662 and 663 since the 652 class went up to 661
Depending on if they were built before 1918, they originally would’ve been outshopped as 461 and 462 respectively
...i MIGHT have underestimated Thomas' lore
If you think this is impressive, see his videos on the history and maps of sodar
@@FajreroCintilo Tug has even said Awdrys attention to lore is almost Tolkien-esq
Also 87546
@@FajreroCintilo its not Sodar its Sodor know your spelling..
@@teatime4me_nowmerlin would be dissapointed that he said it wrong😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔
After all these years, I'm still surprised that Sir Topham Hatt had originally bought Gordon to replace Henry, who refused to leave the tunnel. This must have affected the dynamic and relationship between Henry and Gordon in the early years.
I'm guessing he was planning to purchase Gordon anyway, given that even before the tunnel, Henry was most likely showing problems ever since he came
It also gives depth to why Gordon gets so insecure when Henry gets fixed. Since Henry could do his original job now, Gordon could see himself as surplus, taken off the Express or even off the railway, though Sir Topham seemed to prefer the current setup.
@@e-122psi3 makes sense when you think about it, I mean why get rid of one mainline engine when he can have two that can pull coaches and freight together
Did he? I'm pretty sure Gordon was already there, but maybe Sad Story of Henry takes place before the other stories.
@@BringMayFlowers maybe he was a loned engine and sir topham hatt was so impressed by his performance he decided to buy him outright
I literally haven't touched this series in almost thirty years, and I did not realize how much lore there actually was surrounding the engines. This is amazing.
Yeah, I'm the same! I watched this as a kid, born the same year it first aired as well as my dad actually working for Hunslet Engine Company and I've seen spots through the years here and there, Magic Railway catching my eye at a local cinema when I was holiday in Mablethorpe one time! I saw an episode of All Engines Go and thought my drink had been spiked and when you consider I live alone... When Tug came into my feed and I delved a little into it, I started to wonder if there were any of their locomotives in the show! So far we've had parts!
Oh yeah, Thomas is PACKED with lore
Little obscure things like the engines numbers having meaning is one the things I love about Thomas and Friends. It shows that it was made with a lot of thought, and that this franchise is more important than people realize.
I don't believe in labels, but that Coffee Pot deserved to keep the number one
You mean Glynn?
Who else? I agree Glynn deserved the number 1
I don’t believe in consistency
@@ThomastheE2 Not even consistency of who should be number 1?
@@zackwessling7102 I believe in number consistency, not consistency in general
It's so refreshing these days to just see new uploads without a scheduled future premiere-date. I know that we've sometimes seen these on your channel, but there's a much more enjoyable feeling that comes with simply seeing a new video appear that I can immediately click on and watch. Teasing what the video could be through community posts serving as a preview also adds to the fun
The reason Boco is D5702 in the first place is also interesting. The number of the two-rail version of the Co-Bo produced by Hornby-Dublo was D5702.
Awdry had this model and it would have been the reference model for the illustrations, hence the number being used.
D261 was also the number used by Lima for their OO model of the Class 40. This could have also played a part in character D261's number.
Bro, this was such a nostalgia trip. I grew up on Thomas, so it was neat being reminded of characters like "oh, it's that guy!" or "oh, it's him." I'm glad Adventure Begins was covered, as I find that an amazing retelling of the first few stories and I wish there was more. I like the origins background and speculation as well. I'll have to check out your other stuff, too!
I protest the idea that _every_ real engine has a number - the Great Western broad-gauge engines had only names!
In a lot of places engines were only given names in the early days of railways. Most railway companies only gave their engines numbers by the 1850s, 1860s or even later.
The Sligo, Leitrim and Northern Counties Railway didn’t use numbers either.
@@Daan_0172 This is actually prevalent in the show too. Stephen wouldn’t have worn a number, dating from the first half of the 19th century
@@Daan_0172Many smaller or industrial railways also didn't bother with numbering, they were more likely to just name the engines either officially or unofficially.
On one hand, I really wish we got to learn why Philip was numbered 68, I think it is kind of sweet that Philip learned that it doesn’t really matter, and instead just found his own meaning in the number.
Plus, leaving it vague means that you can come up with your own interpretation. (Then again, judging but effect, Philip didn’t know why that was his number, it was probably saying mundane like just being the 68th engine built by his workshop in America.)
I read on the wiki one time that his top speed was 68mph
i used to think all of the ttte engines numbers were random or ones from real life besides the main 11, but it's interesting to learn them all and their meanings
Fun Fact: There is a preserved Class 101 DMU that was named after Daisy; D101685. Apparently, she is on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway.
Edit: Also, you may have missed Lexi, who wears 21 on her cab.
He might've skipped Lexi because she doesn't have a number.
@@ABellEngine Oh, yeah. You're right. I must've thought she carried 21, as that was what her basis had.
21 is not to mentioned , not if the movie should be uncannon atleast
Why is Daisy in Yorkshire, Yorkshire is the worst County in England
@@TheBandit025Novano lanacharshire is
Ok so technically Thomas was “Killed in Action” if you think about his origin
More like just “Missing in Action” or MIA. Similar to James Bond at the start of Skyfall
Aye but since he was bought under the table for all Brighton knew one of their tank engines may have very well been destroyed
Ok i’m getting Stories of Sodor vibes from this comment
Rebecca's number could also be a possible reference to the placement of her original debut episode for Series 21
5:11
I know Tug usually takes issues with the engines of Sodor being experimental or prototype engines, though my personal headcannon for Thomas was that he was a slightly smaller E2 prototype (which I call the E2.2) with a shortened wheelbase and boiler that was supposed to fix the flaws the larger ones had. (Explaining both his smaller look in the later books and his smaller size to Gordon unlike the real E2, which is huge as Tug pointed out in his Thomas model video)
However despite this experimental E2's success, it was deemed uneconomical to convert or build more of these engines, thus Thomas was kept a secret from the public eye and sent to Sodor where the LB&SCR promptly and quietly covered up his entire existence as a wartime casualty before his purchase by The Fat Director.
I like this theory.
I say Thomas was actually a Furness Railway G5 tanker one-off (which the manufacturers mistook for an E2), and was brought to Sodor around the same time as Edward.
@clockwork3494 I actually think I prefer this than the actual backstory.
@theholygamer969 I can see that and I like the idea too.
Do you watch History In The Dark?
This backstory actually isn’t all that far-fetched tbh, Richard Maunsell actually proposed a design of 0-6-0 tank engines based on the E2s in 1927 but the design was later cancelled due to financial concerns, maybe Thomas could be the long lost prototype of this design?
its funny how the nwr’s beginnings change depending on what version your looking at.
Not associated with numbers and anything, but I'd like to think that Henry was something like The Great Bear in comparison. A failed Pacific turned into a functional 4-6-0.
Awdry was a GWR fan, and the Bear did predate the A1’s as the first British Pacific, so it’s very possible!
@@russellgxy2905this actually has some precedent considering that Reginald Payne (one of the early RWS illustrators) seems to have based his sketches of Henry on the Great Bear
@@xavierjuno4572 Surprised that Awdry didn't tell Dalby to change Henry's golden funnel cap into a regular one in "Thomas and the Guard", despite how much of a sucker of consistency Awdry was. But honestly, I really like this touch. I'd like to think that Henry was, in some way, a sibling to The Great Bear, which was made by the same person who held a grudge towards Gresley with their Pacific. Note that I was inspired to make this comment due a reddit illustration post. I honestly like that OP's idea, considering I have never really thought of his history like that before.
I'd also like to see a Sodors Finest on Oliver, Mavis, Bill & Ben, Emily, and maybe even Spencer!
Me too!
My Top 10:
1) Emily
2) Daisy
3) Mavis
4) Salty
5) Spencer
6) Donald & Douglas
7) Oliver
8) Victor
9) Paxton
10) Stephen
Donald and Douglas: *Angry Scottish sounds*
Me: Don’t worry boys I deal with them If it’s not Scottish it’s Crap
Haha
Be patient, be patient. I’m willing to bet we’ll get SF episodes on Emily (Tug was complimentary of what Season 8 did with her and I’m interested in seeing which era between the Gullane, HiT, and CGI eras wins), Donald and Douglas (RWS solos this one; this could also allow for Tug to vent about what went wrong with TVS Donald and Douglas after Season 6), and a wild card like… I dunno, Paxton (Tug touched on him in Diesel’s installment, but I’d love to see a longer episode about how Brenner saved him from being just a Dodge standin).
I’ve already said it, but this is basically the wild world of Engine Numbers
This show taught me how to count, I'm being serious
It also taught me my colors, I grew up when Murdoch, Molly, and Lady were brand new and were shown off a lot, which filled in orange, yellow, and purple
“So there are three certainty in life,
Death, Taxes and, Engine Numbers”
What a Way to Kick off the first Big Video this year on The Unlucky Tug Channel
Something interesting about Donald and Douglas is that, their numbers did Technically belong to actual engines 17646 and 17647 were the first of the Caledonian Railway class 30 built, which was just a superheated version of the 812s/625s
*652
By technicality, could Thomas have illegally smuggled Nia into Sodor
That makes so much sense. But how did noone notice?
@@navchinnaSomehow no one at LBSCR noticed when Thomas himself was sent to Sodor.
@@asteroidrules They thought h e got bombed
The real question comes when you ask. Can we blame a train for human crimes, if not who do we blame, if we do why is that so?
I just realized bear , boco and daisy have numbers similarly to Thomas , Edward and Henry who are in fact close with them as well since daisy works on Thomas’s branchline , boco on edwards and bear first befriended Henry when he arrived on the NWR
If Bear was in the TV series, I have a feeling he might have kept his old number, similar to BoCo.
I have a funny image in my head that the reason Dennis got sold off to Sodor is because he was too lazy to do what his prototype model was designed for, and that'a why they made Norman later, because they wanted to try again and have an engine tat ran
Speaking of I just love how many characters work with their basises, Rosie for example is based on an engine that worked with the e2 engines, so her being a thomas fan makes sense, though in cases like Dennis and Whiff it seems like pure irony. Whiff being a pristene private engine working in a waste dump, and Dennis supposedly being a fast and effecient diesel being lazy.
When I tell you I punched air when I heard Neville and Arthur, I PUNCHED AIR. I'm so glad the two of them were featured, I immediatly recognised Neville's number too! And hearing about Bear and Boco was a pleasant surprise. This video was so well done and, again, I learnt a lot more than I thought I would! Keep up the amazing work :)
That Spencer edit at the beginning of the video made me laugh a little
Great video as always!
35:57 XD that closeup shot of Gordon looking at the left side of view annoyed and jealous with his brother's fame killed me.
Great video Tug as always!
Me personally I like the idea that Ryan's 10/14 was based on the date he was thought of making it October 14th 2014. Also it would be cool if Charlie was actually based off that first engine considering the fact it was from the nitrogen era.
Greetings from Cape Town, South Africa. I recognise the whistle from engine number 18 in this video as most of our steam locos back in steam days had one that sounds like this. I also love Stepney's whistle in this video.
I'd like to think that Hiro's original designation was "D51-16" and his name is a play on that number. (Hi=1 Ro=6)
Was that even an official number of the class?
@@xavierjuno4572 JNR locomotive numbers always start with its class followed by its engine number.
i.e. D51-16 = Engine No.16 of the D51 class.
I also find it odd that Hiro's final epsiode aired in 2020. The same year that the real D51-51 was scrapped. Good thing the planned special with Thomas visiting Japan never got made. He wouldn't be able to handle learning what happened to Hiro.
Hah! Goroawase!
32:27 Ryan could've been the engine in the middle, #1614, renumbered when the GNR was grouped into the LNER.
Could be possible
Considering how little the team cared about Thomas around DOTD, I would not be suprised at all if they just thought ''ah a lot of real engines have number 6120 let's throw that number onto Belle too''
"I WANTED AN ATLANTIC! BUT THAT ************** SENT ME THAT!!!!" if only George Carlin said that when he narrated the show, and we saw that as an outtake. (also, you kinda forgot Lexi)
What number does she have then?
21
Yeah that does seems like a “only George Carlin would say” line XD
29:55 “In season 14, it was revealed that Whiff was based” a truer statement was never spoken
5:50 headcanon: thomas somehow killed poplar off to gain a lower number.
canon
You don’t even have a number ! (vine boom)
What a way to start the new year, and I’m all for it.
I gotta say, Bruce Alexander is a pretty stellar narrator for the RWS. It’s also crazy he’s the first to narrate *all* of Wilbert’s 26 books!
Will there be a RWS / T&F Narrator Ranking in the future?
I always find it really fascinating what the numbers of each engine mean
I do like that you have the engine whistles with each entry. It reminds me of a TtTE version of the pokedex.
"I know a lot of you watching this already know the stories behind the numbers,"
Man, I still can't tell apart half the blue engines.
87546, 98462, and Gordon?
Sometimes a number is just a number but not in Thomas.
I’m surprised that Lady’s number isn’t infinity considering she’s the god of all trains
There are lots of numbers out there Tug, my man, but you will always be number one ❤
BoCo is actually the 3rd member of his class. The BR Class 28s started with number D5700 and stopped at D5719.
the fact that an engine doesent have the number 13 in the series and 13 famously being the unlucky number is such a great detail
I think you skipped over a diesel engine’s number who is also a Class 40.
His number is 40125 which is “Old Stuck Up” who appears in the first story of the RWS 28th book which is frankly called “Old Stuck Up”
He was first built in December 1960 with 1955 BR Number D325, before getting renumbered in TOPS in 1974 to 40125.
7 years later he was withdrawn in 31st Máy 1981 before getting scrapped for spares in Swindon in December 1983.
Typo: “M𝐚́y”. There is no accent on the 𝐚 in “M𝐚y”.
In November, DragonWolf284 and I talked about Duck's number and they found Duck's possible real Number!
He's actually not 5741, but 5766!
He was allocated to the London Reading shed as a London Paddington station pilot.
When at Swindon Works with the real 5741, their number plates got switched.
May I ask the source?
I just learned a new years that 1020 is a railway series character and I did not know that until I watch a video about background characters
Wait a minute...
Luke and Rebecca are both #22.
Rebecca is yellow.
Rebecca confirmed to be Victor.
So…
This can’t be true.
For context, on the early access of this video, I asked why Luke was #22.
Oh no
@@NitroIndigoDOES THAT MEAN..?
It’s been 100 years since JAMES went to the island of Sodor.
Ya funny enough a lot of the NWR engines are reaching 100 years of active service which I imagine they kinda celebrate on Sodor
Next year it will be.
When Tug does a Sodor's Finest on Sir Topham Hatt, I bet that it can be the RWS.
I believe that Thomas was an experimental built between #s 104 & 105. He was tested by the LB&SCR and then sent north to help build the North Western.
That's something I agree on (kinda like their version of the A1X).
That's a good theory, since it would also explain him having a smaller wheelbase compared to the actual E2 class.
56:30 Speaking of Bill & Ben. They might have not had numbers in the TV series but through seasons 2 and 3 they had builder's plates. At least Bill did. Ben for some odd reason wasn't filmed in a way to show them, if he had any at all. And I have evidence that Bill did have them.
Oh and oddly enough, I can only confirm that he had them on his right side. I think he had them on the left, but the one photo I have with his left, it kinda looks like a big smudge. Maybe from the edge plates. Idk. But he does or did have them or one.
But it's odd how that smudge looking thing on his left is in the exact position where his builder's plate would sit. That is just too suspicious and too perfect.
And in the RWS, Bill and Ben had numbers at the top of their faces, and they were ment to have it in the TVS
The names and numbers of the Steam and Diesel engines. I included the years for some of the Steam and Diesel engines that arrived on Sodor or when they first appeared in the TV series.
The Steam engines:
1) Thomas - 1915 (Arrived)
2) Edward - 1916 (Arrived)
3) Henry - 1922 (Arrived)
4) Gordon - 1923 (Arrived)
5) James - 1926 (Arrived)
6) Percy - 1930 (Arrived)
7) Toby - 1951 (Arrived)
8) Duck - 1955 (Arrived)
9) Donald - 1959 (Arrived)
10) Douglas - 1959 (Arrived)
11) Oliver - 1961 (Arrived)
12) Emily - 2003 (Appeared)
13) The Unlucky Engine
14) Charlie - 2005 (Appeared)
15) Samson - 2015 (Appeared)
16) Unknown
18) Nia - 2018 (Appeared)
20) Hurricane - 2017 (Appeared)
22) Rebecca - 2022 (Appeared)
27) Harvey - 2002 (Appeared)
37) Rosie - 2005 (Appeared)
51) Hiro - 2009 (Appeared)
55) Stepney - 1962 (Arrived)
66) Whiff - 2007 (Appeared)
783) Merlin - 2017 (Appeared)
1014) Ryan - 2015 (Appeared)
1173) Victor - 2009 (Appeared)
2020) Duchess - 2020 (Appeared)
4472) The Flying Scotsman - 2016 (Appeared)
6120) Belle - 2011 (Appeared)
33010) Neville - 2005 (Appeared)
41241) Arthur - 2003 (Appeared)
The Diesel engines:
1) Daisy - 1960 (Arrived)
2) Boco - 1965 (Arrived)
3) Bear - 1967 (Arrived)
10) Diesel 10 - 2000 (Appeared)
68) Philip - 2015 (Appeared)
199) Spamcam - 1967 (Arrived)
261) Class 40 - 1994 (Arrived)
1917) Stafford - 2012 (Appeared)
2991) Salty - 2002 (Appeared)
4002) Frankie - 2017 (Appeared)
11001) Dennis - 2005 (Appeared)
It's good to see a new Unlucky Tug video after coming from the church. More casual videos like this one are quite neat. They're like a gasptake before more bigger video (Sodor's Finest, or The Thomas Retrospective).
I always wanted Weird Al to play Harvey because 27 is a number Al often references and Harvey is the name of a hamster in various projects by Al, in addition to the name of the uncle of Al’s character in UHF.
We know it's a nice day when The Unlucky Tug postes.
My thought with both Ryan and Belle is their numbers reflected an unused basis
At 43:25, that's Terence Cuneo making sketches for his "Night Freight" oil painting, made popular as the cover of the 1972 Triang-Hornby catalogue. What a lovely piece of railway art history.
I always figured that since the Terriers were duplicate listed and given the prefix "6" before their original numbers, to make room for newer locomotives. The number 70 for Thomas was plausible. Also by the time Thomas was built, Poplar had already been sold to the Rother Valley Railyway/KESR as their #5 Bodiam.
That actually makes sense now.
Yay, 2024 has now started, Tug's back!
I love how you can see people smoking in a kid’s book😂😂 15:05
Gotta love the random topics Unlucky Tug will find to cover.
Though I will make a prediction for Sodor's Finest:
CGI did Daisy best.
Agreed
This video was AWESOME! I enjoyed it so much. Love the added detail of having every single engine’s whistle or horn when they are introduced.
0:16 BIG BOY CAMEO!!!
WE HAVE TOO MANY EXPERIMENTAL ENGINES
SEND THAT SHIT TO THE ISLAND OF SODOR!!!!
- The big 4 for some reason
bro said "no narrow gauge engines'' and then proceed to explain victor (he is narrow gauge)
To me, he doesn’t feel like a narrow gauge engine
23:33 bro just rammed that boiling hot steel 💀
2024 has officially started for the unlucky tug!
Let's hope it will go better than 2023!
Did some quick research on Ryan, turns out his basis was spefically on GNR N2/1 number 1744. I'm guessing the production team just took the number 1744 and swapped it around with 1014? I could be wrong on that.
now i know that the engines numbers has meanings Thankyou for making this video
48:32 That royalty-free jazz...
13:22 After looking through the BR database, the only 57xx I could find that worked in London was 5764, built the same year as 5741. I don’t know if I'm the first to come up with this theory, but in my head-cannon these two were overhauled around the same time as each other and their numbers were carelessly switched.
If that engine was built at Swindon, maybe that’s Duck’s true identity then.
Edit: oh wait, that’s a preserved engine. I don’t like interfering with real preserved engines.
@@joshuaW5621 Well, Arthur's concept art depicted him with the number 41241, a preserved Ivatt 2MT preserved on the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway, so they could be the same engine. Who knows? Maybe since the 5741 swapped their nameplate with Duck and this went unnoticed even after Duck was sold to the NWR, 5741 might’ve been preserved on the Severn Valley Railway instead of 5764.
@@davinsmith7543 that theory makes me feel a bit better. Maybe this could be legit. As for Arthur, I really don’t like the idea of him being 41241 since that engine was the Keighley and Worth Valley’s flagship engine. He made that railway as big as it is today, so I’d rather try keeping things accurate as possible in my headcanon and have Arthur be one of the scrapped members of the class.
0:51
Gordon: *¡¡¡😡 YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A NUMBER 😡!!!*
Spencer: *Checks His Tender , And Has No Number*
How does that work exactly!? They shouldn't be able to see behind them at all but they do.😶
I WAS WAITING FOR THIS TOPIC TO COME AROUND
Fun fact: According to Emily's concept art, she was featured with a number, but they never implemented it. I'm surprised that they decided to add her number later in the series instead of at the start. It would've made sense that if she were bought by the NWR, she would have a number.
Another fun fact about Emily is that the inspiration her whistle sound effect at the beginning came from a Barney & Friends special.
I suspect Ryan's number may be a reference to the new-build Great Western County 4-6-0, 1014 County Of Glamorgan. They may have done this to promote this locomotive?
The face gordan makes when his brother states " He almost makes me sound famous" 35:45😂
With a video like this, all those parents that apparently can't count when it comes to Thomas characters (saying Edward is Gordon and Henry is Emily and who the flip is Oliver that's Percy!) now have a decent guide on a good portion of the engines. I sure enjoyed this video and I sometimes think the reason why the engines got progressively bigger with wider and wider gaps inbetween is to subtly indicate that Sodor has dozens and dozens of engines many of whom we never met. Awdry himself did say the NWR has over 80 different engines in total, steam, diesel and electric. Overall, I think engine numbers are just fun. Some numbers are even shared by multiple different engines and others can have a hidden meaning. I know there are many GWR engines out there have the same numbers as many of the houses in my neighborhood. Plenty of other engines have years for numbers.
@@lukechristmas3951 I Like Duck
This was such an interesting one to watch! I like how almost all of these characters had a number that was a reference to something or well given for an actual reason. I think the most surprising thing I learned from this was that Ryan and Belle stumped you! I liked learning about the histories of some of these characters and learning some things about the real-life counterparts. Nice job, Tug! Can't wait to see what's next!
You forgot Mallard he did technically appear in the railway series
And City of Truro
Im very happy that the engines have Real life numbers
You should rank every thomas and friends song
Only one I noticed that was missing was City of Truro 3440. Great video as always though!
32:27 I noticed that one of the N2s in this photo wears the number 1614, so my (probably flimsy) theory is that the designer misinterpreted it as 1014 and put that number on Ryan instead.
Seems possible.
Absolutely insane theory but hear me out:
What if Ryan's number is a reference to the amount of characters from the Brenner Era up to that point, and also the amount of returning characters in the Brenner Era up to that point, the 10 as a reference to the new characters, and the 14 as a reference to the returning characters?
...If you're curious:
Stephen, Connor, Caitlin, Porter, Timothy, Gator, Marion, Samson, Glynn and Ryan for the new characters.
Duck, Donald, Douglas, Oliver, Toad, Bill, Ben, Harvey, Duncan, Jack, Alfie, Oliver, Max and Monty for the returning ones.
Sounds interesting.
the unlucky tug, i have a bit of a theory for what ryan's number means:
so, when the class N2's were being scrapped, the first engine to be scrapped in the 50s was numbered 69510.
and the last one to be scrapped in the 50s was numbered 69514.
both of the last 2 digits makes ryan's number, 1014.
sorry if it's a big assumption, but it's probably as big as the rebecca one
Oh yeeeee!
if norman did have a number I imagine it would’ve been 11002.
Wait,you said you werent taking on to account narrow guage engines but Victor is an narrow guage engine
4:59
My personal interpretation of Thomas is that he's specifically No.105, which ties in, ironically, to No.100, as the first-of-class. This also means that Thomas is also technically a first-of-class engine, being the first LBSCR E2 built with extended side tanks.
I won’t say Ryan’s number CANT be a date, but it’s highly unlikely seeing as how in the British date convention 1014 would be the tenth day of the nonexistent 14th month
When trains are retired
Usa: we put it on display to remember it
Uk: S C R A P
I still want to know the reason behind Philip's number.