@@aidanmills6136 As someone who loves both Hollow Knight and D&D, I actually googled it a little while back, apparently there's a few instances of people homebrewing Hollow Knight stuff for D&D. (Partial) Bestiary of Hallownest: homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HkY1IbG8V IMO, best Hallownest Playable Race: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hallownest_Inhabitant_(5e_Race) And, Hollow Knight custom Class, if that's up your alley: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hallownest_Knight_(5e_Class)
Here’s my idea for an Echo Knight. The main character is a little kid and her Echo is her future self who’s desperately trying to keep her past self from getting killed.
Jonathan Snavely The one with a character sheet. Echoes are just a body with one hit point you can use to serve people attacks like a middle manger who delegates all of his responsibilities to someone else.
Copying my comment here, it's long. Echo Knight sounds like it could make an awesome tank. If you max out your Dex/Strength to give it the highest armored possible you could block enemies on 2 adjacent tiles (for example, a small hallway) or 2 completely separate locations (ex: defending teammates who were separated). Even if the echo doesn't live long, you can make another on your next turn and switch places to be wherever you're needed most. 2nd thought: do the echoes have racial traits when created? A lot of cool combos could probably come from that, but the first one in my mind was Half-Orcs' ability to survive a deadly attack with 1 hp, allowing echoes to take 2 hits instead of 1.
@@emc246 I do not believe the echo receives any of your other features. Its capabilities are clearly outlined, and it does not say it is a copy of you. The one thing it gets are features benefiting your attacks, as it serves as a literal extension of your attacks, so when you attack with it, it's actually you attacking.
Imagine Convergent Future as the Chronurgist catching the die as it's falling, asking the DM what number would succeed and then putting down the die with either that number or one below. That's it. Could've been written better but that's what the ability does.
I see the convoluted text as a mean to give it a work around. Let's say your fighter attacks a wizard, rolls 10 total vs wizards idk 14 ac, chronurgist turns that 10 into 14 as reaction, wizard can use his reaction to use shield and get higher ac
@@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet that's how I interpreted it. Whatever your target number is (AC or DC or skill check) you can either succeed, or make it a failure by 1 number.
There are some ways to work with that "1". If you use the convergent future to succede a roll against a wizard of 14 AC, the wizard can use it's reaction to cast shield and block your now roll of 14 with an AC of 19.
@@levkrasovsky4920 the wildfire druid would be pulling double time as the only healer and support caster-while also being a damage-centered subclass. meh, they'd still melt everything IMO, the ancestral guardians would mean that when the echo knight uses his echo to eat hits for others they'd have disadvantage to hit, but that's a 1/SR ability. basically, a lot of tanking and a lot of instant damage. the fighter should use an ASI on the healer feat so they're not all dependant on the druid, but that's a very durable party anyway.
On Convergent Future, it says you ignore the die roll and then make the decision; as such, I believe what it's saying is less "1 is good enough to hit" and more "Actually, he didn't roll a 1, he rolled exactly what he needed to, combined with his modifiers, to hit that monster's AC. Whatever that number is." Conversely "No, that monster didn't roll a nat 20, he rolled...whatever he needed to roll to miss my AC of 13." If it was just a matter of deciding that the 1 was good enough, it wouldn't say to ignore it. I agree it's written badly. I think it'd be easier to just copy the wording of Legendary Resistance, where they can just choose success (or failure) instead. There may be a reason why it uses numbers instead of just choosing to succeed/fail, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.
This is exactly what I am thinking! I've seen similar abilities in other games, so it came more naturally to understand that the ability changes the roll to the number needed, and then augments it.
There are some checks that are made worse by failing by 5 or more, like a Medusa’s gaze or some traps going off on a thieves’ tools check to disable. I imagine the point of specifying is for those niche cases. “He only failed the petrifying gaze by 1, so he’s not automatically petrified.”
I think its worded that way because I believe the idea is that you are using potential timelines as a guide to determine the outcome and if something is actually impossible then you can't rules lawyer a success, in the cases of inexperienced DM's.
I think its worded like this because if a player were to nat 1 on a attack role, and then the wizard uses this feature to try and make them hit, they would still miss because its a critical failure. When you nat 1 it doesn't matter if your modifier is 5 and their ac is now 6, you still miss. Where as choosing for a creature to succeed or fail negates crit fails and successes.
For convergent future you're leaving out the fact that it says "ignore the die roll." Essentially, as a reaction, the chronurgist can do the same as the divination wizard's portent. The differences being the choice can be made after rolling, and instead of changing the roll to a specific number they make it meet the AC or DC needed to succeed fail by 1. So in your example of a crit fail, for the expended reaction that chronurgist changes that crit fail to the minimum needed, be it an 8 to hit a zombie or 21 to hit a well armored fighter
I was surprised to not see fall damage reduction but I guess they figured that it step on the toes of feather fall. And honestly if I take this subclass, I'll end up taking feather fall anyways for thematic reasons at least. So no big deal but it does seem like it should be there.
@@blackfang0815 The problem is that a lot of Wizard subclasses aren't that good, as far as I've read, most of the schools of magic subclasses aren't great
For anyone still confused about Convergent Future it is meant to work like this: 1) Lets say an enemy makes an attack and rolls a Nat 20 with a +5 to hit on an AC 16 PC. 2) Wizard uses this ability and makes the (number rolled = to AC/DC - modifier, then +/- 1) depending if they want the person to succeed or fail. 3) So "The minimum number to succeed" is referring to after adding Modifiers as shown in the equation above. 4) Meaning this would cause the enemy to have ended up rolling either a (16-5=11-1= 10) or a (16-5=11+1= 12) on their attack roll depending on what the wizard chose. 5) There is 1 caveat which is the number has to be inbetween 1-20, so if a moving a boulder requires a DC 30 Str check, and the PC has a +5 to Str then in order to succeed they would have to roll a 25 which is impossible so it would become a nat 20 which yields them a 25 which is still a failure. HOWEVER when it comes to ATTACK rolls that would mean they would Crit and get to double the damage dice, same goes for a Natural 1 on an attack roll.
I think the point of the chromomancy feature being phrased that way is so that the roll doesn’t automatically succeed or fail. This way something like shield or cutting words can still change the outcome
8:12 "Convergent Future" ability. I'm pretty sure his interpretation of the ability is wrong. [9:08] "The chronogist can say 'Five is enough' " No.... the way I read it is that if you need a roll of 10 to succeed, then the chronogist can say you either rolled a 10 ("the minimum needed to succeed") or a 9 ("or one less than that") NOT saying that "five is enough" but quite literally IGNORING THE DICE ROLL, just like the wording of the ability. [9:40] "a nat 1 is always a miss and a nat 20 is always a hit" But we are _ignoring the dice roll._ You didn't roll a nat 1, you rolled whatever the chronogist says ("The minimum needed to succeed"). The enemy didn't roll a nat 20, the enemy rolled whatever the chronogist says.("or one less than that"). EDIT To be clear, it is the minimum roll needed to succeed, not the AC. If you have an AC15 and a +5 mod, the roll needed is 10.
Shane Rooney Thank god that some people actually understand the ability. hearing almost everyone saying its worded "funky" HAS BEEN DRIVING ME F**KING INSANE!!!!!
In fairness I read it more as you roll a 1 but can decide that 1 is enough. Do t know why he'd be adding modifiers to it but still if the intended use is as you say and you actually change it to like 15 to hit an AC of 15 or one less then it is worded a bit odd. Once you see that interpretation it makes sense but at the same time it says ignore the die roll not ignore modifiers so like let's say an enemy rolls a 19. And you say no the roll is 16 because your AC is 17 do they still add their modifier to that result making the ability in this regard practically useless in most situations? Diviners swap out rolls but still add mods to them after. Is this different? It's very unclear
@@Jhakaro , you're getting confused because you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. "You roll a 1 but decide 1 is enough" doesn't fit the wording of the ability. You roll a 1... And then completely ignore the fact you rolled a 1, because the ability says "use your reaction to ignore the dice roll..." Once you realize the old dice roll is ignored the next part makes more sense. You can't determine the AC based on the roll because we have ignored the roll. Thus clearly we must determine the roll based on the AC. BUT... Your point about modifiers made me realize I'm oversimplifying it. It should be based on your AC + modifiers. If you have an AC15 with a +5 modifier, what roll is "the minimum needed to succeed" ? 10. Rewording the ability to make it easier to understand wouldn't be a bad thing. But I don't see it as a necessity. The ability can be understood as is.
So one thing I would love to do with the echo fighter is have the character be blind so they hear echo's of other worlds to call upon then do something like summon a familiar so you can see through the familiars eyes
@@Mugthraka Not quite considering he will have an echo fighter, and doesn't use earth bending also I don't play female characters because I'm not good at roll playing them
@@mjr8888 Though I completely agree in the hilarity part as it would just be cool you just need to pick up the ritual casting feat to summon up a familiar or put a few levels into wizard
Convergent Future: if a creature's AC is 16, you can make the roll 15 or 16. It is worded in that way as to not make this feature create an automatic hit. If you make the roll a 16 the enemy can use Shield to increase their AC, making the attack miss. The wording also allows for Legendary Resistance.
thank you for for the informative review so quickly! insights are helpful while going through all of this new information 1. Echo Knight jumped out as fun to play, both as character and NPC - could work thematically with another character of a Divination Wizard or this new Chronurgy Wizard 2. Graviturgy Wizard seems interesting - would be curious to see it in action, maybe in combination or competing against someone with telekinesis 3. Chronurgy Wizard seems like a thematic twist of the Divination Wizard - in both cases, would be tempted to add feats of "alert" and "lucky" - could be super villain 4. still reading through the new spells and other information - already can see options that will enhance and expand the three new subclasses, more than what i would have thought at first when reading the subclass descriptions
Great video! I believe the interpretation of the Convergent Future subclass feature is that the rolled number is changed similar to how the Portent feature of a diviner wizards replaces the roll. I think the wording is written as such to make it more general so that it can apply to rolls when the players do not know the AC or DC required to succeed.
Convergent Future works like this: creature makes an attack roll saving throw or ability check, you ignor the roll and it turns into just enough to hit (ie AC of the bear is 19, your roll becomes a 19) or it becomes 1 lower then the number needed to succeed (ie the AC of the bear is 19, your roll becomes 18) Think of it like the diviner’s potent ability but instead of a set number it is either the exact the number needed to succeed or 1 less than was needed to succeed
A fighter that does more than stab? How novel. Champion: big stab. Battle Master: custom stab. Eldritch Knight: magic helps you stab. Cavalier: You and me are gonna stab! Arcane Archer: stab from all the way over here. Samurai: stab Asian style. Echo Knight: I can stab, but I'm also 2 people!
I would like to see 2 subclasses come out.. 1. For wizard *demonologist* (defensive/offensive spells agains demons. Littke Utility.) 2. For warlock *demonology* (Mostly focusing on Demon pet class/little defense/little Utility. I would like to see these and i wouls be complete. Take Care Be Safe Stay Safe
I think the Convergent Future Ability is actually supposed to be interpreted to where you can make any ability check, save, or attack roll automatically succeed or fail, UNLESS it is a natural 1 or 20, as those fail & succeed regardless of what is required.
pretty sure it skips the roll completely basically once the roll is called for, but before it was made, you spend a reaction to declare the roll either successful or failed by 1 (probably for cases like "if failed by 5 or more")
Everyone has pointed out Hollow Knight but an Echo Knight hollow could easily be the Lord Marshal from Chronicles of Riddick, which they pointed out as a creepy way to imagine your other self. 🤓
@@biohazard724 True. And in fact looking at recent UA, newly released subclasses and the artificer, it definitely seems like people on the design teams are a fan of Borderlands. As at this point you can recreate many of the Vault Hunters with relative ease.
So at 7th level, I can basically teleport 1000 feet if walk/travel the Echo that far? And, should I waltz the Echo into a place in the dead of night and say, I swing my mace from whatever hideyhole I'm in, I can take an additional attack with the Echo and straight up Renly Baratheon a motherfucker? Gimme.
3 rogue (assasin), 5 fighter (echo knight) + 3 ranger (gloomstalker) = sneak into a castle find the BBEG asleep and make 7 attacks all as auto-criticals in one round from your echo... == Broken!
I'm really glad they finally came out with a time mage. I've had this idea for one that was basically just the infamous halfling Divination Wizard flavoring luck as time magic.
Convergent Future is basically just saying that you ignore the dice and choose what number was rolled. So if you attack a creature with AC 18 and your attack roll is a 4, the Chronogist can say "Nope, that was an 18." Likewise, if your Save DC is 15 and the enemy saves with a 25, the Chronogist can say, "Nope, that was a 14."
That Chronal Shift ability reminds me of an altered portent, where it is comparable, but not better nor worse than it. Portent gives you insurance, knowing exactly what the result of your alteration will be, while Chronal Shift allows you to change things after the effects of the result are determined.
I think you would benefit less from thinking that convergent future is an ability that changes the DC of a roll, and one where you pick the timeline where the roll itself just barely succeeds or fails, and have that be the one the players experience. That said, there's little wording on how that would effect a crit success if it is the minimum needed to succeed. I think that's where my issue with the funky wording comes from. It's an easy enough ruling for the DM to make in my eyes, though. Not commenting on the preferences I have for it, just that it's a yes or no question and one I don't think would require a deep dive in a book to make it on the fly.
@@bsmith6784 I mean, that's just math to figure out the minimum needed to roll. Because it's basically a succeed or fail, any bonuses are arbitrary. Subtract any character based bonuses like persuasion or an attack roll bonus from the DC. After that, you have the combined minimum that any rolls would have to equal out to. Doesn't matter what they equal, so long as they equal that, or 1 below it. It's just an arbitrary way of saying success or failure, so the rolls themselves are arbitrary, and just fitting into the rules of the game.
@@s.colins2050 If that were the case, it'd take up less text to just say "succeed or fail" - which is something publishers always look for. It _not_ doing that means these implications are probably correct - non-inherent modifiers to the roll can change the result over that threshold. At the _very_ least modifications to the roll that occur _after_ you use convergent future would do that.
@@s.colins2050 nah I don't think so. As others pointed out, if that were the case it would just say succeed or fail. It seems you still add modifiers and such. Like bardic inspiration or bless, you can't even know what you'll roll before hand so you'd have to roll all benefits, add up you mod and then subtract that from the results just to find the roll needed to succeed or fail by one which would be a nightmare. It's worded pretty poorly regardless.
While I think the wording is clunky too, I think the chronomancer final feat is it allows you to ignore the dice roll since that's what it says. I think it's a slightly weaker version of divination wizards spell. Basically if you roll a 1 but the DC is 15 it changes the total number you got including modifiers to 15. If you want an enemy to fail it changes their total number rolled to 14.
Thank you for being so on the spot with you uploads and coverage of d&d news in genral. Its criminal that you dont have more subscribers. Hands down your my favorite d&d youtuber
I agree, the Echo Knight is probably the coolest and most powerful of the subclasses. I'm interested to see how you could use it with multi classing, and use the echo to gain reliable access to Sneak Attack 😁 by putting it next to enemies (so they're engaged with it). Also, useful for teleporting in and out of cover! Also could be used for infiltration at very low risk, by using it's Familiar-like features, controlling it remotely (up to 1000ft!) Since it has the same abilities as you, it's far more powerful than a traditional familiar for this purpose, because it can pick locks, disarm traps, etc, all with your own proficiencies! If it gets caught, attacked etc, you can just dismiss it, and there is literally nothing left behind to be incriminating, and you suffer no damage. You don't even need to spend anything (zero consumed materials cost!) to bring it back again when you next need it, unlike a familiar if it dies, and doing so is also a lot faster. It's a hell of a subclass, and has such good potential for story flavouring too...
Plus you can attack from it as if it was yourself and teleport to it or back again, so you can sneak in and make 7 attacks that are auto-crits if you multiclass right with zero costs or risks to yourself.
I think its important to note that the last feature for gravity wizard isn't difficult terrain because that doubles the amount of movement needed so it takes 4 feet for every one foot moved which is crazy powerful
The way I read that chronurgist feature is they can decide "no that misses" or "actually that hits". They ignore the die roll and decide the outcome themselves, the weird specificity just means that they can't decide it's a critical hit or a critical miss (the latter mattering if the group uses a critical fumble table)
14:42 It's not difficult terrain, it's super extra difficult terrain. Every foot costs +2 extra+ feet of movement, not 1 extra foot, so moving 5 feet under this effect would cost you 15 feet of movement.
Echo Knight has so many fun possibilities, honestly one of the things that occured to me with it was the potenial for a ranged combat based Echo Knight with the free attacks from the echo plus the ability to snap to it's location.
It says you ignore the roll. The nat 1 or 20 no longer exists. It changes the number to whatever hits or misses. If they roll a 40 to hit your ac of 16, the roll is now a 15.
What'd you mean funky? Convergent Future it's pretty simple. You IGNORE the dice roll, so it doesn't matter if the result is a 1 or 20. The time wizard then say if was a success or a fail by 1.
How Convergent Future works is: if you need 18 to hit, you can turn anything lower to a 18 including a nature 1 or if the enemy is targeting you, and they get 18 or a natural 20 to hit you, and your AC is 18, you can turn it into a 17. Basically, critical fails and successes are erased because the original roll is ignored. It is written in a way that ignores criticals, and turns them into normal hits or failures.
I think you missed the part where Covergent Future ignores the die roll. It is just saying that if you have an attack modifier of +4 and your target has an AC of 19, then you can decide that the die roll is a 15 or a 14, ignoring whatever the die roll actually was.
@@Idziemel1 I'd say yes, because that's what the ability states it does, but maybe a Sage Advice about die results would be helpful. It could have been worded, "you decided whether the die result is a success or failure" for sure.
If I'm reading the wording of that correctly, it is each time a spell hits that you can move them. It's janky, but that means you can push people back 15 feet with each beam of Eldritch Blast if you have repelling blast, or add 5 feet to any of the other movement-impairing invocations.
For the Chronugy feature, i think since it says "ignore the die roll", you aren't saying "5 is enough", you are saying, "if the AC of the monster is 18, the attack total was exactly 18"
about Chronurgy MAgic 14th level feature: it's worded that way so that other features can bypass it, like the ones that let you add a dice to a roll or to roll an additional dice
If i had to guess the convergent future is worded the way it is because a nat 1 always missing/crit failing, and a nat 20 always hitting/crit hitting are actually optional/house rules. It is just that every one uses them.
Chronurgist seems like a mixture of concepts similar to the war wizard. Temporal awareness. Int to initiative to represent speeding your character up. Momentary stasis is similar to the enchanter subclass ability for locking a creature down, except that it has a range of 60ft. At the very least it’s a reliable way to end concentration since incapacitation ends concentration, takes away actions, and causes auto failure on grapple/shove checks. Arcane abeyance seems like a more versatile but also power level limited glyph of warding that can move. Since the spell is already cast it can’t be counterspelled either. Spell slot is the limiting factor, not the time to cast. Spells like snare, leomunds tiny hut, magic circle, phantom steed, and Mordenkainens magnificent mansion can be used as an action in combat. Convergent future is almost like legendary resistance. Exhaustion is pretty crazy but it might not effect a wizard as much if one prepared for it. Teleportation and phantom steed would bypass mobility restrictions. Disadvantage on checks wouldn’t be so bad with initiative since you get INT to it. Your wizard probably wasn’t going to notice hidden enemies anyways. And your wizard probably doesn’t make very many attack rolls. So basically you get 2 good uses before you worry about disadvantage on saves.
Graviturgist would be about hindering, increasing, or forcing movement. The level 2 feature is about risk and reward, and it goes well with other PCs class abilities. Synergizes with entangle, ensnaring strike, thunderous smite, earth bind, watery sphere, open hand monk technique, grappling/shoving, disarming strike, pushing attack, trip attack. Prolly more that I can’t remember. And it’s an ability you can use always without using a slot, just spend an action and concentrate. Gravity well expands on that by giving you the ability to manipulate enemies and allies positions by doing what a wizard was going to do anyways. Violent attraction gives you something to do to help teammates if you make it through a round of combat without having to cast shield or Counterspell. Event horizon is just ridiculous.
I really want to make a stealthy dex fighter who is an echo knight, but flavor the echo as a shadow clone. Unleash an Uzumaki barrage with me and the clone pummeling some dude, and when I get “hit” just bamboozling them with a substitution. Use the shadow clone as a scout for reconnaissance as well.
I read Convergent Future as you ignore the die roll no matter what it is, and the number becomes X or X-1, whatever the number needed is. So if a creature gets a natural 20 to hit a target with 16 AC, you take a point of exhaustion to make the total 15.
I think the way the convergent future is worded is to make automatic misses and hits like nat 20s and 1s have higher priority. Even if the AC is momentarily 5, you auto miss
don't forget you can teleport to the echo while using Echo avatar which is effectively a 1000ft teleport per short/long rest, provided it gets to the location, which is nice
I figured the roll changed to whatever was the bare min/max to pass/fail the roll. I like this, because it keeps characters from turning a fumble into a crit, or vice versa
With the Event Horizon feature it isn't difficult terrain on success, it's an additional 2 feet for every one feet they move, which is way better because it stacks with other movement penalties.
What I took from the Convergent future was that you ignore the die, and say well you just hit the AC or just below the AC. So if the AC is 18, and you roll a 1, you can decide that the roll was either 17 or 18.
Based on the language about Concentration in the PHB (p.203), I think there is a good argument to be made that you can concentrate on one of these abilities and a spell at the same time, which limits the impact of these abilities requiring concentration.
Crits only work when it comes to damage rolls. I think the Convergent Future is worded like that so it won't affect crit attacks. So if you roll a natural 2 the Wizard can say that hits but if you roll a natural 1 it will miss anyway. If it was meant to bypass crits then the feature would have been worded along the lines off "When you or a creature you can see within 60 feet of you make an ability check, attack roll or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to make that roll succeed or fail (your choice)".
The way I understood convergent future: You ignore the actual *roll*, and decide that the person rolling gets a total result equal to the target number, or a total result one lower. Meaning, if I'm rolling to climb a slick wall, and get a 13, I feel like that won't be high enough to not loose my footing. So I use Convergent Future and decide that what I rolled was actually enough to combine with my skill modifier to pass the check. It does not affect the actual AC or DC of the thing in question, rather you act as if you had rolled the target AC/DC minus your ability/skill/attack modifier, so that you hit the exact target number. Likewise for the second option, where you act as if you had rolled one under the target AC/DC plus your modifier.
14:40 as written is 2 extra feet for every feet you move, so it's not difficult terrain. Differences: Difficult terrain: every feet you move you spend an extra feet to move (30 feets are now 15 feet) Event Horizon: every feet you move you spend 2 extra feets to move (30 feet are now 10 feet)
My first thought when I saw that the activating creature concentrates on the spell, ha ha. Its basically a ring of spell storing you can give to anyone.
Gravity well; when you cast a spell (this happens before the spell resolves or is executed) per specific wording When-Cast. In my understanding you may cast a spell selecting a target, move the target, resolve the spell, etc.
Also my interpretation is heavily based in MTG, which it appears lately (5e) use the same language particularly with newer mechanics and supplements. I have found this approach to 5e rulings make a lot of sense thematically more often than not. Stack and layer manipulation as well as game state checks etc is what I’m referring to.
the final ability can make it so everyone in your party succeeds on a saving throw or every enemy fails one since you can change the DC based on the highest or lowest roll.
Echo Knight has so much piled onto level 3 that honestly it seems more jam packed with stuff than many subclasses get at their second subclass feature (typically at 6th or so level). It doesn't seem busted, but it may prove to be too potent of a three level dip. It's hard to justify leaving behind a 15' Misty Step at will and other misc. melee upsides after doing a dip for Action Surge already, and compared to other Fighter archetypes may make it a bit ubiquitous when it's allowed. REALLY fucking cool though.
I think the point of Convergent Future is that other class abilities can still come into play. So its not an automatic success of failure, like a bard could still effect the dice roll.
I think what Convergent Future means is, say your AC is 16 and and they roll a 22 the Chronurgist can say "No, you actually rolled a 15, so you miss." I think the janky wording is to allow for the inclusion of other roll altering reaction spells/abilities. For example say you miss on your attack on an enemy caster, but your party's Chronurgist uses Convergent Future to make your attack roll meet their AC. Then the enemy uses their reaction after that to cast shield.
RE: The wording of Gravity well. Moving them happens conditionally when you cast a spell. The conditions being their willingness, them being hit by an attack roll, or them failing a saving throw. By that wording, it is not the attack roll that triggers a push back. The attack roll enables the push back, but the casting of the spell enables the target to be pushed by 5 feet. What this works out to is, a single target can only be pushed back by 5 feet, but a single spell hitting multiple targets can push each one back by 5 feet.
The way I interpreted "Convergent Future" is more along the lines of how the Divination Wizard's ability works, where basically you just replace the initial roll. In this case you either make the roll just enough, or just short in exchange for exhaustion.
You're miss understanding the capstone ability for the chronurgist, the way it's worded states that if, using your example, a player has an AC of 16 and the monster roll a 40 to hit, then the Chronurgist's Convergent Future ability changes it so that they rolled a 15 instead.
Oh... I read that Convergent Future differently. I read it as “You ignore the die, the die changes to the number needed to succeed exactly, or fail by one.” E.g.: you roll a total of 12 and the DC is 18. The chronowizard says: “You did not roll 12, you rolled 18 on the dot.”
Convergent future only means that it changes the roll to be what needed or one less than needed: If I roll a Nat 1 on my attack against an ancient red dragon, the wizard can say "no you get a 22", which would be just enough to hit. Same situation but reversed, the Dragon rolls to hit and gets 27. My AC is 21. The wizard can use convergent future to say " no you get a 20", making the hit a miss in the end.
i think Convergent Future works similar to the rogues reliable talent where it alters the number rolled so that (even taking modifiers into account) the target can succeed or fail
This only just clicked, but if you ever wanted to play Kenshi from Mortal Kombat, take levels in echo knight. He had his own sorta spirit clone which was awesome.
Echo Knight has some great stuff especially the extra attack at 3rd, but Intelligence to initiative, 2 rerolls per long rest, a few free Incapacitates all by 6th level is awesome! Then being able to cast any 4th or lower into a 1hr bead usable by anyone. They are both great new subclasses. If not a little strong..
Echo Knight is insanely powerful. Unlimited teleport as a bonus action is just ridiculous, and there are no duration or usage limits on the echo so you would just have it around all the time. It essentially makes you immune to anything that would reduce your movement speed. Plus depending on how you interpret it, effectively immune to fear and charm as well since the echo is immune to all conditions and you can choose to have it make all your attacks instead of you...
for convergent future, it tells you to ignore the dice roll, and then decide if the number rolled meets or is one short, since you ignore the dice roll i think its telling you that you decide what number gets used in place of their roll, and they added the requirement of only being able to choose if it meets the dc or is one less so that you couldnt choose it to be a critical success/failure. it is really wierdly worded but thats what I understood of it
I believe that with the 14th level chrono wizard ability it saying you the caster stops the target from rolling period and you decide whether they succeed or not
I play an Echo Knight Fighter in a homebrew campaign at third level and he is already nuts. Grapple and being restrained have no affect since I can swap with the echo whenever
I think they wrote Convergent Future with the mindset that some spells and abilities require you know what the roll is before you decide if it hits. Say you use it on an enemy to bring a Nat 1 to a roll of 16, just enough to hit a Bladesinger. But then that bladesinger can use their reaction to cast Shield, or use their reaction to use the Defensive Duelist feat. That raises the AC by more than what Convergent Future can allow, then, so it misses
Time to make a Hollow Echo Fighter known as "The Hollow Knight"
Get out 😅
you win everything :D got a chuckle out of me
You could homebrew an insectfolk race to go along with it.
@@aidanmills6136 As someone who loves both Hollow Knight and D&D, I actually googled it a little while back, apparently there's a few instances of people homebrewing Hollow Knight stuff for D&D.
(Partial) Bestiary of Hallownest: homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HkY1IbG8V
IMO, best Hallownest Playable Race: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hallownest_Inhabitant_(5e_Race)
And, Hollow Knight custom Class, if that's up your alley: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hallownest_Knight_(5e_Class)
Here’s my idea for an Echo Knight. The main character is a little kid and her Echo is her future self who’s desperately trying to keep her past self from getting killed.
She was a consecrated Kryn warrior but is cursed will not be able to rebirth if she dies again
That is rad
"main character"
Jonathan Snavely The one with a character sheet. Echoes are just a body with one hit point you can use to serve people attacks like a middle manger who delegates all of his responsibilities to someone else.
Jinx Jade i know what the echoes are lmao
Never have i EVER read a subclass for a martial class and instantly come up with a character idea. They really struck gold with the Echo Knight
is it Naruto?
lol
Copying my comment here, it's long.
Echo Knight sounds like it could make an awesome tank. If you max out your Dex/Strength to give it the highest armored possible you could block enemies on 2 adjacent tiles (for example, a small hallway) or 2 completely separate locations (ex: defending teammates who were separated). Even if the echo doesn't live long, you can make another on your next turn and switch places to be wherever you're needed most.
2nd thought: do the echoes have racial traits when created? A lot of cool combos could probably come from that, but the first one in my mind was Half-Orcs' ability to survive a deadly attack with 1 hp, allowing echoes to take 2 hits instead of 1.
@@emc246 I think the biggest plus is sentinel, being able to hold people in place from two locations is possibly too good
Agreed.
@@emc246 I do not believe the echo receives any of your other features. Its capabilities are clearly outlined, and it does not say it is a copy of you.
The one thing it gets are features benefiting your attacks, as it serves as a literal extension of your attacks, so when you attack with it, it's actually you attacking.
Imagine Convergent Future as the Chronurgist catching the die as it's falling, asking the DM what number would succeed and then putting down the die with either that number or one below. That's it. Could've been written better but that's what the ability does.
My thoughts exactly. You don't succeed on a 5, your 5 is now whatever number meets the DC
I agree that’s how it’s supposed to be interpreted
Thy could have just said you choose if it succeds or missed. But I am curious if the intention was to allow it to bypass crits and crit misses.
I see the convoluted text as a mean to give it a work around. Let's say your fighter attacks a wizard, rolls 10 total vs wizards idk 14 ac, chronurgist turns that 10 into 14 as reaction, wizard can use his reaction to use shield and get higher ac
For a moment I thought I worked like this: if someone tries to hit and the dice plus the bonuses rolls like a 23, you can say "no lul, my AC is 24"
There's a simple solution to your doubts, it says: ignore the roll, so there was no "1", there was "something" that hits.
That's how I took it as well. You ignore the roll of the die and just use the number. It's either enough to hit/succeed or it's not.
Assuming AC or DC 16, you can force a success of exactly 16, or you can force a failure of exactly 15.
@@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet that's how I interpreted it. Whatever your target number is (AC or DC or skill check) you can either succeed, or make it a failure by 1 number.
There are some ways to work with that "1". If you use the convergent future to succede a roll against a wizard of 14 AC, the wizard can use it's reaction to cast shield and block your now roll of 14 with an AC of 19.
@@Onixsword same with it being a 13 though, which is more how I interpret the ability.
Whoa, I can play as a time wizard?
*Brooklyn accent intensifies*
YGOTAS Reference?
Nyah!
You can but you have to flip a coin first. Call the flip wrong and your character and party dies
@@UrsaFrank lol
@@Realperson16 Sure is, friend ^^
Alright, now the fighter has the stand-user subclass, which could double well with the Astral Self monk in the same party
ft. the Ancestral Guardian barbarian
Ancestral guardian barbarian (XGtE) & wildfire druid (UA) are also stand user subclasses.
@@ataberkdedemen9802 Oh yeah, true, thanks for the reminder!
Now, how viable would this kind of party be?
Time for a....
*Fucking Crusade*
@@levkrasovsky4920 the wildfire druid would be pulling double time as the only healer and support caster-while also being a damage-centered subclass.
meh, they'd still melt everything IMO, the ancestral guardians would mean that when the echo knight uses his echo to eat hits for others they'd have disadvantage to hit, but that's a 1/SR ability.
basically, a lot of tanking and a lot of instant damage. the fighter should use an ASI on the healer feat so they're not all dependant on the druid, but that's a very durable party anyway.
On Convergent Future, it says you ignore the die roll and then make the decision; as such, I believe what it's saying is less "1 is good enough to hit" and more "Actually, he didn't roll a 1, he rolled exactly what he needed to, combined with his modifiers, to hit that monster's AC. Whatever that number is." Conversely "No, that monster didn't roll a nat 20, he rolled...whatever he needed to roll to miss my AC of 13." If it was just a matter of deciding that the 1 was good enough, it wouldn't say to ignore it.
I agree it's written badly. I think it'd be easier to just copy the wording of Legendary Resistance, where they can just choose success (or failure) instead. There may be a reason why it uses numbers instead of just choosing to succeed/fail, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.
This is exactly what I am thinking! I've seen similar abilities in other games, so it came more naturally to understand that the ability changes the roll to the number needed, and then augments it.
There are some checks that are made worse by failing by 5 or more, like a Medusa’s gaze or some traps going off on a thieves’ tools check to disable. I imagine the point of specifying is for those niche cases. “He only failed the petrifying gaze by 1, so he’s not automatically petrified.”
I think its worded that way because I believe the idea is that you are using potential timelines as a guide to determine the outcome and if something is actually impossible then you can't rules lawyer a success, in the cases of inexperienced DM's.
I think its worded like this because if a player were to nat 1 on a attack role, and then the wizard uses this feature to try and make them hit, they would still miss because its a critical failure. When you nat 1 it doesn't matter if your modifier is 5 and their ac is now 6, you still miss. Where as choosing for a creature to succeed or fail negates crit fails and successes.
@@walterberger1930 Except it expressly tells you ignore the die roll.
2 extra feet of movements means that 1 foot is 3 feet. It's more than difficult terrain, it's 15 feet per square.
you also cant get around it with effects that circumvent rough terrain, which is nice
For convergent future you're leaving out the fact that it says "ignore the die roll." Essentially, as a reaction, the chronurgist can do the same as the divination wizard's portent. The differences being the choice can be made after rolling, and instead of changing the roll to a specific number they make it meet the AC or DC needed to succeed fail by 1. So in your example of a crit fail, for the expended reaction that chronurgist changes that crit fail to the minimum needed, be it an 8 to hit a zombie or 21 to hit a well armored fighter
Exactly what I was thinking
Because fuck portent I guess lol
@@kylestanley7843 Portent doesn't cause exhaustion
@@andrewmcmillan229 And portent is level 2,meaning it's still much better as a rogue, fighter, and artificer dip.
Also 1 more, or 1 less then enouth is not a lot and enemy bard would easly counter that
According to Crawford, fists are weapons when used to hit. Violent attraction lets you add 1d10 as a reaction. Bar room brawl time.
I would have liked the graviturgist to have the ability to reduce damage and fall damage.
I was surprised to not see fall damage reduction but I guess they figured that it step on the toes of feather fall. And honestly if I take this subclass, I'll end up taking feather fall anyways for thematic reasons at least. So no big deal but it does seem like it should be there.
@@karpmageddon4155 good points
They should have got Reverse Gravity always automatically known!
Feather fall seems like a good pick for that.
@@ATinyWaffle Wouldn't make that much sense to single out that one spell when they're adding brand new gravity-based spells
The Echo Knight is awesome. Really hit it out of the park with that subclass.
I really wished that instead of 2 wizards, we would've got a sorcerer subclass with either flavors
Or a rogue with time abilities.
Totally agree. Wizard has like twenty subclasses now and makes all the magic users share their toys with them, and Sorcerer has what, five subclasses?
I'll be honest though I think the Clockwork Sorcerer from the recent UA's actually kinda helps cover that feel whether intentionally or not. >.>
It also irks me that now the wizard is tied for most subclasses. *sad divinity noises*
@@blackfang0815 The problem is that a lot of Wizard subclasses aren't that good, as far as I've read, most of the schools of magic subclasses aren't great
For anyone still confused about Convergent Future it is meant to work like this:
1) Lets say an enemy makes an attack and rolls a Nat 20 with a +5 to hit on an AC 16 PC.
2) Wizard uses this ability and makes the (number rolled = to AC/DC - modifier, then +/- 1) depending if they want the person to succeed or fail.
3) So "The minimum number to succeed" is referring to after adding Modifiers as shown in the equation above.
4) Meaning this would cause the enemy to have ended up rolling either a (16-5=11-1= 10) or a (16-5=11+1= 12) on their attack roll depending on what the wizard chose.
5) There is 1 caveat which is the number has to be inbetween 1-20, so if a moving a boulder requires a DC 30 Str check, and the PC has a +5 to Str then in order to succeed they would have to roll a 25 which is impossible so it would become a nat 20 which yields them a 25 which is still a failure. HOWEVER when it comes to ATTACK rolls that would mean they would Crit and get to double the damage dice, same goes for a Natural 1 on an attack roll.
Perfect ad placement on this video. I got a Dndbeyond ad, lol.
*Dndbeyond guys*
I think the point of the chromomancy feature being phrased that way is so that the roll doesn’t automatically succeed or fail. This way something like shield or cutting words can still change the outcome
8:12 "Convergent Future" ability.
I'm pretty sure his interpretation of the ability is wrong.
[9:08] "The chronogist can say 'Five is enough' "
No.... the way I read it is that if you need a roll of 10 to succeed, then the chronogist can say you either rolled a 10 ("the minimum needed to succeed") or a 9 ("or one less than that")
NOT saying that "five is enough" but quite literally IGNORING THE DICE ROLL, just like the wording of the ability.
[9:40] "a nat 1 is always a miss and a nat 20 is always a hit"
But we are _ignoring the dice roll._
You didn't roll a nat 1, you rolled whatever the chronogist says ("The minimum needed to succeed").
The enemy didn't roll a nat 20, the enemy rolled whatever the chronogist says.("or one less than that").
EDIT
To be clear, it is the minimum roll needed to succeed, not the AC.
If you have an AC15 and a +5 mod, the roll needed is 10.
Shane Rooney Thank god that some people actually understand the ability. hearing almost everyone saying its worded "funky" HAS BEEN DRIVING ME F**KING INSANE!!!!!
In fairness I read it more as you roll a 1 but can decide that 1 is enough. Do t know why he'd be adding modifiers to it but still if the intended use is as you say and you actually change it to like 15 to hit an AC of 15 or one less then it is worded a bit odd. Once you see that interpretation it makes sense but at the same time it says ignore the die roll not ignore modifiers so like let's say an enemy rolls a 19. And you say no the roll is 16 because your AC is 17 do they still add their modifier to that result making the ability in this regard practically useless in most situations? Diviners swap out rolls but still add mods to them after. Is this different? It's very unclear
@@Jhakaro , you're getting confused because you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
"You roll a 1 but decide 1 is enough" doesn't fit the wording of the ability.
You roll a 1... And then completely ignore the fact you rolled a 1, because the ability says "use your reaction to ignore the dice roll..."
Once you realize the old dice roll is ignored the next part makes more sense. You can't determine the AC based on the roll because we have ignored the roll. Thus clearly we must determine the roll based on the AC. BUT...
Your point about modifiers made me realize I'm oversimplifying it. It should be based on your AC + modifiers.
If you have an AC15 with a +5 modifier, what roll is "the minimum needed to succeed" ? 10.
Rewording the ability to make it easier to understand wouldn't be a bad thing. But I don't see it as a necessity. The ability can be understood as is.
Backseat dm?
So one thing I would love to do with the echo fighter is have the character be blind so they hear echo's of other worlds to call upon then do something like summon a familiar so you can see through the familiars eyes
Avatar last airbender's Toph Baifong.
Use vibrations as echolocations to see around her and to create Echos.
Weakness: anything not touching the ground. Result: hilarity.
@@Mugthraka Not quite considering he will have an echo fighter, and doesn't use earth bending also I don't play female characters because I'm not good at roll playing them
@@mjr8888 Well blind sight does go vertically also hearing and smell are a thing so using those he could do some work
@@mjr8888 Though I completely agree in the hilarity part as it would just be cool you just need to pick up the ritual casting feat to summon up a familiar or put a few levels into wizard
Echo Knight? More like Bright Lord, just need spirit guardians and dominate person/monster then bam
I don't get that reference.
I mainly thought of Shadow Clones lol
B Smith Bright Lord is Shadow of Mordor/War lmao
Convergent Future: if a creature's AC is 16, you can make the roll 15 or 16. It is worded in that way as to not make this feature create an automatic hit. If you make the roll a 16 the enemy can use Shield to increase their AC, making the attack miss. The wording also allows for Legendary Resistance.
thank you for for the informative review so quickly! insights are helpful while going through all of this new information
1. Echo Knight jumped out as fun to play, both as character and NPC - could work thematically with another character of a Divination Wizard or this new Chronurgy Wizard
2. Graviturgy Wizard seems interesting - would be curious to see it in action, maybe in combination or competing against someone with telekinesis
3. Chronurgy Wizard seems like a thematic twist of the Divination Wizard - in both cases, would be tempted to add feats of "alert" and "lucky" - could be super villain
4. still reading through the new spells and other information - already can see options that will enhance and expand the three new subclasses, more than what i would have thought at first when reading the subclass descriptions
Great video!
I believe the interpretation of the Convergent Future subclass feature is that the rolled number is changed similar to how the Portent feature of a diviner wizards replaces the roll. I think the wording is written as such to make it more general so that it can apply to rolls when the players do not know the AC or DC required to succeed.
Hey Nerd Immersion, keep doing what your doing.
Convergent Future works like this: creature makes an attack roll saving throw or ability check, you ignor the roll and it turns into just enough to hit (ie AC of the bear is 19, your roll becomes a 19) or it becomes 1 lower then the number needed to succeed (ie the AC of the bear is 19, your roll becomes 18)
Think of it like the diviner’s potent ability but instead of a set number it is either the exact the number needed to succeed or 1 less than was needed to succeed
I've seen the listing in DnD Beyond and I think it's great value, 3 subclases, 48 monsters and 46 magic items and 15 spells.
and 4 subraces and a boon for player and dm characters to bring back the dead as revenants
A fighter that does more than stab? How novel. Champion: big stab. Battle Master: custom stab. Eldritch Knight: magic helps you stab. Cavalier: You and me are gonna stab! Arcane Archer: stab from all the way over here. Samurai: stab Asian style. Echo Knight: I can stab, but I'm also 2 people!
Well all martial classes basically just "stab"
😅
rune night
@@thefunnynamehere266 Giant stab.
it's a stabbing class, what did you expect?
I would like to see 2 subclasses come out..
1. For wizard
*demonologist*
(defensive/offensive spells agains demons. Littke Utility.)
2. For warlock
*demonology*
(Mostly focusing on Demon pet class/little defense/little Utility.
I would like to see these and i wouls be complete.
Take Care
Be Safe
Stay Safe
I think the Convergent Future Ability is actually supposed to be interpreted to where you can make any ability check, save, or attack roll automatically succeed or fail, UNLESS it is a natural 1 or 20, as those fail & succeed regardless of what is required.
pretty sure it skips the roll completely
basically once the roll is called for, but before it was made, you spend a reaction to declare the roll either successful or failed by 1 (probably for cases like "if failed by 5 or more")
Everyone has pointed out Hollow Knight but an Echo Knight hollow could easily be the Lord Marshal from Chronicles of Riddick, which they pointed out as a creepy way to imagine your other self. 🤓
I definitely was picturing the final battle from the Chronicles of Riddick when he was describing the echo's combat abilities.
Or Zane from Borderlands 3
@@biohazard724 True. And in fact looking at recent UA, newly released subclasses and the artificer, it definitely seems like people on the design teams are a fan of Borderlands. As at this point you can recreate many of the Vault Hunters with relative ease.
So at 7th level, I can basically teleport 1000 feet if walk/travel the Echo that far?
And, should I waltz the Echo into a place in the dead of night and say, I swing my mace from whatever hideyhole I'm in, I can take an additional attack with the Echo and straight up Renly Baratheon a motherfucker?
Gimme.
Get some points of rogue in ye and stealth kill anyone from a mile away
@@Killer66hitman Right? I'm thinking Assassin or Swashbuckler could be good.
Or maybe a gloomstalker? many options to play around with
3 rogue (assasin), 5 fighter (echo knight) + 3 ranger (gloomstalker) = sneak into a castle find the BBEG asleep and make 7 attacks all as auto-criticals in one round from your echo... == Broken!
I'm really glad they finally came out with a time mage. I've had this idea for one that was basically just the infamous halfling Divination Wizard flavoring luck as time magic.
Echo Knight feels like an official brother of The Order of Ghostslayer
Convergent Future is basically just saying that you ignore the dice and choose what number was rolled. So if you attack a creature with AC 18 and your attack roll is a 4, the Chronogist can say "Nope, that was an 18." Likewise, if your Save DC is 15 and the enemy saves with a 25, the Chronogist can say, "Nope, that was a 14."
That Chronal Shift ability reminds me of an altered portent, where it is comparable, but not better nor worse than it. Portent gives you insurance, knowing exactly what the result of your alteration will be, while Chronal Shift allows you to change things after the effects of the result are determined.
I think you would benefit less from thinking that convergent future is an ability that changes the DC of a roll, and one where you pick the timeline where the roll itself just barely succeeds or fails, and have that be the one the players experience. That said, there's little wording on how that would effect a crit success if it is the minimum needed to succeed. I think that's where my issue with the funky wording comes from. It's an easy enough ruling for the DM to make in my eyes, though. Not commenting on the preferences I have for it, just that it's a yes or no question and one I don't think would require a deep dive in a book to make it on the fly.
it also doesn't seem to account for other after-the-fact modifications like Bardic Inspiration, etc
@@bsmith6784 I mean, that's just math to figure out the minimum needed to roll. Because it's basically a succeed or fail, any bonuses are arbitrary. Subtract any character based bonuses like persuasion or an attack roll bonus from the DC. After that, you have the combined minimum that any rolls would have to equal out to. Doesn't matter what they equal, so long as they equal that, or 1 below it. It's just an arbitrary way of saying success or failure, so the rolls themselves are arbitrary, and just fitting into the rules of the game.
@@s.colins2050 If that were the case, it'd take up less text to just say "succeed or fail" - which is something publishers always look for.
It _not_ doing that means these implications are probably correct - non-inherent modifiers to the roll can change the result over that threshold. At the _very_ least modifications to the roll that occur _after_ you use convergent future would do that.
@@s.colins2050 nah I don't think so. As others pointed out, if that were the case it would just say succeed or fail. It seems you still add modifiers and such. Like bardic inspiration or bless, you can't even know what you'll roll before hand so you'd have to roll all benefits, add up you mod and then subtract that from the results just to find the roll needed to succeed or fail by one which would be a nightmare. It's worded pretty poorly regardless.
Agree with you.
I got so excited that I made a Echo Knight backup character
I think the way that spell works is you decide if it's 1 more or less than the AC or DC... Regardless of what was rolled.
While I think the wording is clunky too, I think the chronomancer final feat is it allows you to ignore the dice roll since that's what it says. I think it's a slightly weaker version of divination wizards spell. Basically if you roll a 1 but the DC is 15 it changes the total number you got including modifiers to 15. If you want an enemy to fail it changes their total number rolled to 14.
Excluding the modifiers. It explicitly states you treat the roll, not the result.
Thank you for being so on the spot with you uploads and coverage of d&d news in genral. Its criminal that you dont have more subscribers. Hands down your my favorite d&d youtuber
I agree, the Echo Knight is probably the coolest and most powerful of the subclasses. I'm interested to see how you could use it with multi classing, and use the echo to gain reliable access to Sneak Attack 😁 by putting it next to enemies (so they're engaged with it). Also, useful for teleporting in and out of cover!
Also could be used for infiltration at very low risk, by using it's Familiar-like features, controlling it remotely (up to 1000ft!)
Since it has the same abilities as you, it's far more powerful than a traditional familiar for this purpose, because it can pick locks, disarm traps, etc, all with your own proficiencies!
If it gets caught, attacked etc, you can just dismiss it, and there is literally nothing left behind to be incriminating, and you suffer no damage. You don't even need to spend anything (zero consumed materials cost!) to bring it back again when you next need it, unlike a familiar if it dies, and doing so is also a lot faster.
It's a hell of a subclass, and has such good potential for story flavouring too...
Plus you can attack from it as if it was yourself and teleport to it or back again, so you can sneak in and make 7 attacks that are auto-crits if you multiclass right with zero costs or risks to yourself.
I think its important to note that the last feature for gravity wizard isn't difficult terrain because that doubles the amount of movement needed so it takes 4 feet for every one foot moved which is crazy powerful
The first thing I thought of when I heard echo fighter was you could essentially have madara’s limbo clones.
The way I read that chronurgist feature is they can decide "no that misses" or "actually that hits". They ignore the die roll and decide the outcome themselves, the weird specificity just means that they can't decide it's a critical hit or a critical miss (the latter mattering if the group uses a critical fumble table)
14:42 It's not difficult terrain, it's super extra difficult terrain. Every foot costs +2 extra+ feet of movement, not 1 extra foot, so moving 5 feet under this effect would cost you 15 feet of movement.
Echo Knight has so many fun possibilities, honestly one of the things that occured to me with it was the potenial for a ranged combat based Echo Knight with the free attacks from the echo plus the ability to snap to it's location.
Summon the Echo with a bow equipped, switch to a melee weapon, and now you have a convenient fall back position.
It says you ignore the roll. The nat 1 or 20 no longer exists. It changes the number to whatever hits or misses. If they roll a 40 to hit your ac of 16, the roll is now a 15.
Was reading these before bed last night and man the echo knight is the only fighter I ever want to play now.
What'd you mean funky? Convergent Future it's pretty simple. You IGNORE the dice roll, so it doesn't matter if the result is a 1 or 20. The time wizard then say if was a success or a fail by 1.
How Convergent Future works is: if you need 18 to hit, you can turn anything lower to a 18 including a nature 1 or if the enemy is targeting you, and they get 18 or a natural 20 to hit you, and your AC is 18, you can turn it into a 17. Basically, critical fails and successes are erased because the original roll is ignored. It is written in a way that ignores criticals, and turns them into normal hits or failures.
I think you missed the part where Covergent Future ignores the die roll. It is just saying that if you have an attack modifier of +4 and your target has an AC of 19, then you can decide that the die roll is a 15 or a 14, ignoring whatever the die roll actually was.
OrbitalLunatic okay, but can you decide that it was a -4, if the enemy has a +16 bonus and your friend (sounds like a wizard) has an AC of 13?
@@Idziemel1 I'd say yes, because that's what the ability states it does, but maybe a Sage Advice about die results would be helpful. It could have been worded, "you decided whether the die result is a success or failure" for sure.
If I'm reading the wording of that correctly, it is each time a spell hits that you can move them. It's janky, but that means you can push people back 15 feet with each beam of Eldritch Blast if you have repelling blast, or add 5 feet to any of the other movement-impairing invocations.
For the Chronugy feature, i think since it says "ignore the die roll", you aren't saying "5 is enough", you are saying, "if the AC of the monster is 18, the attack total was exactly 18"
about Chronurgy MAgic 14th level feature: it's worded that way so that other features can bypass it, like the ones that let you add a dice to a roll or to roll an additional dice
If i had to guess the convergent future is worded the way it is because a nat 1 always missing/crit failing, and a nat 20 always hitting/crit hitting are actually optional/house rules. It is just that every one uses them.
Echo Knight: Approved! The Hollow Echo Knight is near! xD
Chronurgist Wizard: Partially approved, is basically a nerfed Divination Wizard.
Graviturgist Wizard: ...why?
My feelings exactly.
Chronurgist seems like a mixture of concepts similar to the war wizard.
Temporal awareness. Int to initiative to represent speeding your character up.
Momentary stasis is similar to the enchanter subclass ability for locking a creature down, except that it has a range of 60ft. At the very least it’s a reliable way to end concentration since incapacitation ends concentration, takes away actions, and causes auto failure on grapple/shove checks.
Arcane abeyance seems like a more versatile but also power level limited glyph of warding that can move. Since the spell is already cast it can’t be counterspelled either. Spell slot is the limiting factor, not the time to cast. Spells like snare, leomunds tiny hut, magic circle, phantom steed, and Mordenkainens magnificent mansion can be used as an action in combat.
Convergent future is almost like legendary resistance. Exhaustion is pretty crazy but it might not effect a wizard as much if one prepared for it. Teleportation and phantom steed would bypass mobility restrictions. Disadvantage on checks wouldn’t be so bad with initiative since you get INT to it. Your wizard probably wasn’t going to notice hidden enemies anyways. And your wizard probably doesn’t make very many attack rolls. So basically you get 2 good uses before you worry about disadvantage on saves.
Graviturgist would be about hindering, increasing, or forcing movement. The level 2 feature is about risk and reward, and it goes well with other PCs class abilities. Synergizes with entangle, ensnaring strike, thunderous smite, earth bind, watery sphere, open hand monk technique, grappling/shoving, disarming strike, pushing attack, trip attack. Prolly more that I can’t remember. And it’s an ability you can use always without using a slot, just spend an action and concentrate.
Gravity well expands on that by giving you the ability to manipulate enemies and allies positions by doing what a wizard was going to do anyways.
Violent attraction gives you something to do to help teammates if you make it through a round of combat without having to cast shield or Counterspell.
Event horizon is just ridiculous.
(Me seeing the feature from echo fighter) TIME TO MAKE MY BOI LOWAIN FROM GRAND BLUE FANTISY
I really want to make a stealthy dex fighter who is an echo knight, but flavor the echo as a shadow clone. Unleash an Uzumaki barrage with me and the clone pummeling some dude, and when I get “hit” just bamboozling them with a substitution. Use the shadow clone as a scout for reconnaissance as well.
Just gotta find a way to get a rasengan ability
I read Convergent Future as you ignore the die roll no matter what it is, and the number becomes X or X-1, whatever the number needed is. So if a creature gets a natural 20 to hit a target with 16 AC, you take a point of exhaustion to make the total 15.
Convergent Future: It says in the text to ignore the die roll. You change the die to the number that is needed.
I think the way the convergent future is worded is to make automatic misses and hits like nat 20s and 1s have higher priority. Even if the AC is momentarily 5, you auto miss
don't forget you can teleport to the echo while using Echo avatar which is effectively a 1000ft teleport per short/long rest, provided it gets to the location, which is nice
I figured the roll changed to whatever was the bare min/max to pass/fail the roll. I like this, because it keeps characters from turning a fumble into a crit, or vice versa
With the Event Horizon feature it isn't difficult terrain on success, it's an additional 2 feet for every one feet they move, which is way better because it stacks with other movement penalties.
What I took from the Convergent future was that you ignore the die, and say well you just hit the AC or just below the AC. So if the AC is 18, and you roll a 1, you can decide that the roll was either 17 or 18.
Based on the language about Concentration in the PHB (p.203), I think there is a good argument to be made that you can concentrate on one of these abilities and a spell at the same time, which limits the impact of these abilities requiring concentration.
Astral monk: hits wizard with a crit
Wizard: THE WORLD!! You have to be faster than that Jojo!
Fighter: OOOH MY GOOOOD!
Crits only work when it comes to damage rolls. I think the Convergent Future is worded like that so it won't affect crit attacks. So if you roll a natural 2 the Wizard can say that hits but if you roll a natural 1 it will miss anyway. If it was meant to bypass crits then the feature would have been worded along the lines off "When you or a creature you can see within 60 feet of you make an ability check, attack roll or a saving throw, you can use your reaction to make that roll succeed or fail (your choice)".
The way I understood convergent future: You ignore the actual *roll*, and decide that the person rolling gets a total result equal to the target number, or a total result one lower.
Meaning, if I'm rolling to climb a slick wall, and get a 13, I feel like that won't be high enough to not loose my footing. So I use Convergent Future and decide that what I rolled was actually enough to combine with my skill modifier to pass the check.
It does not affect the actual AC or DC of the thing in question, rather you act as if you had rolled the target AC/DC minus your ability/skill/attack modifier, so that you hit the exact target number.
Likewise for the second option, where you act as if you had rolled one under the target AC/DC plus your modifier.
14:40 as written is 2 extra feet for every feet you move, so it's not difficult terrain.
Differences:
Difficult terrain: every feet you move you spend an extra feet to move (30 feets are now 15 feet)
Event Horizon: every feet you move you spend 2 extra feets to move (30 feet are now 10 feet)
Hey everyone want a bead of haste?
My first thought when I saw that the activating creature concentrates on the spell, ha ha.
Its basically a ring of spell storing you can give to anyone.
There are so many fun spells I look forward to giving to martial classes. Haste is the obvious one, but Shadow Blade is also good.
Gravity well; when you cast a spell (this happens before the spell resolves or is executed) per specific wording When-Cast. In my understanding you may cast a spell selecting a target, move the target, resolve the spell, etc.
Also my interpretation is heavily based in MTG, which it appears lately (5e) use the same language particularly with newer mechanics and supplements. I have found this approach to 5e rulings make a lot of sense thematically more often than not. Stack and layer manipulation as well as game state checks etc is what I’m referring to.
Pair that Echo with Tunnel Fighter (if UA is allowed) and Sentinel.
These look awesome!
the final ability can make it so everyone in your party succeeds on a saving throw or every enemy fails one since you can change the DC based on the highest or lowest roll.
Echo Knight has so much piled onto level 3 that honestly it seems more jam packed with stuff than many subclasses get at their second subclass feature (typically at 6th or so level). It doesn't seem busted, but it may prove to be too potent of a three level dip. It's hard to justify leaving behind a 15' Misty Step at will and other misc. melee upsides after doing a dip for Action Surge already, and compared to other Fighter archetypes may make it a bit ubiquitous when it's allowed.
REALLY fucking cool though.
I think the point of Convergent Future is that other class abilities can still come into play. So its not an automatic success of failure, like a bard could still effect the dice roll.
Shadow mono or whatever it's called with 3 levels into fighter for echo abilities seems sweet as hell
I think what Convergent Future means is, say your AC is 16 and and they roll a 22 the Chronurgist can say "No, you actually rolled a 15, so you miss." I think the janky wording is to allow for the inclusion of other roll altering reaction spells/abilities.
For example say you miss on your attack on an enemy caster, but your party's Chronurgist uses Convergent Future to make your attack roll meet their AC. Then the enemy uses their reaction after that to cast shield.
RE: The wording of Gravity well.
Moving them happens conditionally when you cast a spell. The conditions being their willingness, them being hit by an attack roll, or them failing a saving throw.
By that wording, it is not the attack roll that triggers a push back. The attack roll enables the push back, but the casting of the spell enables the target to be pushed by 5 feet.
What this works out to is, a single target can only be pushed back by 5 feet, but a single spell hitting multiple targets can push each one back by 5 feet.
The way I interpreted "Convergent Future" is more along the lines of how the Divination Wizard's ability works, where basically you just replace the initial roll. In this case you either make the roll just enough, or just short in exchange for exhaustion.
Event Horizon is 2 extra feet per foot (3 ft total) so a speed 30ft goes to 10ft. :)
I played *Etrian Odyssey Nexus* recently, so the Echo Knight (which sounds a lot like the Hero class from that game) already appeals to me.
You're miss understanding the capstone ability for the chronurgist, the way it's worded states that if, using your example, a player has an AC of 16 and the monster roll a 40 to hit, then the Chronurgist's Convergent Future ability changes it so that they rolled a 15 instead.
Oh... I read that Convergent Future differently. I read it as “You ignore the die, the die changes to the number needed to succeed exactly, or fail by one.” E.g.: you roll a total of 12 and the DC is 18. The chronowizard says: “You did not roll 12, you rolled 18 on the dot.”
Gravity well, multiclassed into warlock with the pushing Eldritch blast......
Convergent future only means that it changes the roll to be what needed or one less than needed: If I roll a Nat 1 on my attack against an ancient red dragon, the wizard can say "no you get a 22", which would be just enough to hit. Same situation but reversed, the Dragon rolls to hit and gets 27. My AC is 21. The wizard can use convergent future to say " no you get a 20", making the hit a miss in the end.
i think Convergent Future works similar to the rogues reliable talent where it alters the number rolled so that (even taking modifiers into account) the target can succeed or fail
I think the Convergent Future ability is worded that way for reaction shenanigans
I would have liked to have seen the Cobalt Soul introduced as well, but I still really enjoy the subclasses we got.
its in the tal'dorei campaign book
My immediate thought on hearing about the echo fighter is “this will be really useful if I’m falling into a pit trap”
You can break Arcane Abeyance pretty easily - give a Find Familiar to each of your companions for a free advantage on an attack per round.
This only just clicked, but if you ever wanted to play Kenshi from Mortal Kombat, take levels in echo knight. He had his own sorta spirit clone which was awesome.
using levitation and then slamming them down for 2d6+2d10 seems pretty cool.
Time to add Echo Fighter to my Hexblade paladin build for another swing of the sword. :)
Echo Knight has some great stuff especially the extra attack at 3rd, but Intelligence to initiative, 2 rerolls per long rest, a few free Incapacitates all by 6th level is awesome! Then being able to cast any 4th or lower into a 1hr bead usable by anyone. They are both great new subclasses. If not a little strong..
Echo Knight is insanely powerful. Unlimited teleport as a bonus action is just ridiculous, and there are no duration or usage limits on the echo so you would just have it around all the time. It essentially makes you immune to anything that would reduce your movement speed. Plus depending on how you interpret it, effectively immune to fear and charm as well since the echo is immune to all conditions and you can choose to have it make all your attacks instead of you...
for convergent future, it tells you to ignore the dice roll, and then decide if the number rolled meets or is one short, since you ignore the dice roll i think its telling you that you decide what number gets used in place of their roll, and they added the requirement of only being able to choose if it meets the dc or is one less so that you couldnt choose it to be a critical success/failure. it is really wierdly worded but thats what I understood of it
I believe that with the 14th level chrono wizard ability it saying you the caster stops the target from rolling period and you decide whether they succeed or not
Convergent future is worded that way because Bard's inspiration or Favored by the Gods of the Sorcerer (and I am sure I am missing something).
I play an Echo Knight Fighter in a homebrew campaign at third level and he is already nuts. Grapple and being restrained have no affect since I can swap with the echo whenever
I think they wrote Convergent Future with the mindset that some spells and abilities require you know what the roll is before you decide if it hits. Say you use it on an enemy to bring a Nat 1 to a roll of 16, just enough to hit a Bladesinger. But then that bladesinger can use their reaction to cast Shield, or use their reaction to use the Defensive Duelist feat. That raises the AC by more than what Convergent Future can allow, then, so it misses