The Barghest and the Bullock - Oathmark Narrative Battle Report
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2023
- Receiving word of a Goblin incursion, Edmund the Ox, Champion of Goldenfields, leads a force of Men and Dwarves south across the Stoney Creek River to drive them off.
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The Brace rule has been a bugbear of mine for a while. It makes spears great against Goblins, but it's pretty lackluster against anything else. I think spears should be a meaningful upgrade, they were the dominant battlefield weapon throughout history for a reason! But this is also a game, so we can't make them too dominant (can we?)
The way I see it, there are two chief advantages of spears or other polearms: Reach and concentration of force. Spears are longer than hand weapons and can strike a sword armed enemy before he's in range, and spears concentrate a larger number of weapons into an area, through both ranks and reach. But these advantages require numbers and coordination to achieve.
So my thoughts at the moment are to replace the current Brace rule entirely. Instead we give them a "Spearwall" or "Reach" special rule stating something like:
“During combat in their front arc a unit containing models with the “Reach” rule may force the enemy unit to discard one combat die. The “Reach” deduction is made after all other factors determining Combat Dice except Shielding are considered, and it may never lower a unit's Combat Dice below 1. In order to benefit from this ability the unit:
Must have at least two full ranks,
Must not be Disordered."
-This gives spears a much needed defensive boost: They become great at holding ground when charged in the front, add in Shielding and their opponent is reduced to 3CD, sucking some of the oomph out of a cavalry or monster charge, though they will now get their full charge bonus.
-A relative offensive boost: They receive no actual buff to their damage, but their advantages are reflected in their enemies reduced effectiveness.
-Adds in some counterplay: Disorder them with arrows before a charge, whittle their numbers down, flank them (they no longer get Brace to their flank!) counter their spears with your own for a grindy slugfest!
-And it gives Goblins a wee buff! Now they can benefit from their charge! - เกม
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 70 | คู่เอก "โฟกัส vs สเตฟาน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_fVieQ89DRQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think this might be the best performance I've seen from the humans, looks like Edmund isn't the only useful human after all.
Yeah, they did really well for a change. The overwhelming firepower certainly helped!
@@AshandStoneNZ Seems so.
You know I was wondering why Edmund wasn't there with the King in that fight against Moxis. Now I know, he was off leading another army against the grobi.
There is plenty to keep the Kingdom of the Silver Mountains busy!
Great to see another battle report, always like the narrative videos to do and looking forward to the next video where hopefully the humans can capitalise on this performance!
Cheers Oliver! I appreciate it!
An excellent batrep
Cheers mate! Glad you enjoyed it!
Phenomenal work as usual! Your Oathmark batreps always make my day and are quite inspiring!!! Makes me catch a second wind to get back to work on my armies!!!
That's what I want to hear! Cheers Armond!
Brilliant as always 👌
Cheers mate! I appreciate it!
Nice wee report. The spear rules look interesting and certainly worth a go.
Cheers John! If you give them a go, let us know how they went!
Hey, I recognize it - you're doing Warcraft 2 human impression!
Regarding spears rules - it's a good tweak. And if it feels too strong (play testing required), make it only a defensive buff - that weapons with 'reach' don't give any buffs during the charge - Warhammer Fantasy spears didn't work on the charge - only when charged and during subsequent battle rounds.
You nailed it! That's the inspiration for my terrible impression!😅
And yeah, those were my thoughts as well. If it's too much at the moment, make it defensive only. But it definitely requires more testing!
Woo hoo, you're back ❤
Indeed! I'm always chipping away at the next one, unfortunately it just takes time!
Hail Edmond the Ox! 🐂🐂🐂 Fantastic battle report, Chris. I think Brace as written is a bit overpowered and really just disincentivizes taking swordsmen (despite the 1 pt cost difference). I do think your house rule is an elegant solution and would love to see more field tests.
Cheers Skipp!
Yeah, I think the worst part about Brace is the way it just shuts down Goblins. The one cool thing they get and it's removed by a one point upgrade with no counter.
But I definitely need to do some more play testing!
I agree about spears , there should be no brace except from the front .
Absolutely!
Though I still think Brace needs a little extra rejigging!
If Brace is massing spears in a hedge, I agree...however, It may just represent a mass of men clumped (as happened in the first crusade, not much good at fighting, but hard to get amongst and kill.
Spears have always felt sort of meh to me. Brace 1 is only really useful against Orcs and Goblins, and maybe a couple of the larger beasties - but then again reducing a Giants Charge 2 to Charge 1 is rather moot when its already Fight 6 (IIRC). Against cavalry - the thing you would expect them to have been intended to counter - they are rather pointless, taking Charge 3 down to Charge 2, but still leaving you in no better position than if you had just brought a unit of Warriors instead, minus the added bonus of being better against other non-charge based attacks too.
I have been thinking that they need a bonus such as Brace equal to ranks+1, or something. Your solution is a good one.
Also good to see a Barghiest. They are one of my favourite monsters from the book, I have had some great success running 2 in a hunting pack.
My thoughts exactly!
Brace counters the main thing Orcs and Goblin have going for them, but has little effect against anything else.
I had considered something along the lines of Brace being tied to ranks, but I felt that spears should have an effect on anything engaging them on their front. Even infantry with sword and shield has to get past those points before they can get to grips with the spearmen. Still needs more testing however!
I think the Barghests are neat. I've got two painted and ready to go and had the same though of running a pack. It'll have to wait for a bigger battle though!
Great game and good fun always look forward to the games yes changing the spear rules will make it better
Cheers Gary! I like the changes so far, but I need to do some more testing too!
Great game as always! Enjoy watching and being inspired. In regard to spears, have you thought about using them as a missile weapon as well? Shorter range than slings maybe. Just a thought.
Cheers James, glad to hear it!
I haven't put too much thought into throwing weapons so far, but they are definitely something I'd like to see. Something beyond the "Javelin Storm" rules in Bane of Kings for skirmishers would very be cool.
17:00 I have a question. Why would you need to make a morale check if your enemy is dead? You took casualties, but your enemy is a corpse.
Basically RAW, you take one any time you suffer casualties.
I guess think of it as being in regards to the wider battle, not just that particular engagement. Yes, you killed that enemy, but there are still more on the field.
Do your troops still want to stick around to face the rest? Have they done their part?
Has the enemy thrown their ranks in chaos? Do they need time to reorganise?
Was it particularly hard fought? Maybe your troops are exhausted and need a breather?
Maybe is was simply a harrowing experience that they don't want to go through again, despite their victory?
Just because they have won, doesn't necessarily mean they are fit to continue fighting, if that makes sense?
@@AshandStoneNZthank you! I'm an old Warhammer player, new to Oathmark. Love your reports,just found the channel and have watched all the battles. Subscribed. Thank you!!!
Cheers mate! I'm glad you're enjoying it all!
Nice!
I do prefer a more themed list like this (Goblins with ally and humans with ally not both having the same mix facing off).
Cheers Peter! Yeah, themed lists are great. It's nice to get some variety between either side.
A great battle report, as usual. I thought the loss of the catapult would prove worse for the humans, but I agree with you, the activation by turn five lost it for the goblins.
I honestly think you have improved the spear roles, I do a similar thing in my home games.
Cheers Vitor! They were in it with a chance, but when that Barghest got dropped, things quickly changed!
What do you do for spears in your home games? How's it working for you?
@@AshandStoneNZ sorry for not answering right away, busy day. I took one movement (5) and increased one defence. It is going pretty well, choosing spear blocks limits your moves but they are now more of the anvil they were in historical battles.
No worries! We all have lives away from the internet. (I hope!)
That would definitely make them more solid. Have you kept the Brace rule as is?
@@AshandStoneNZ I have kept Brace as it is, but I often forget to even use it. We use shielding (because we remeber it), but honestly, I don't recall a frontal cavalry charge against a spear unit in one of my games.
The soundwork in relation to the Barghest was fantastic, even if I was cheering for the Goldenfield/Dwarf alliance I still though that it was a shame that it fell so quickly.
Poor slaves lol.
Thanks man! Unfortunately it just got unlucky. But that's the way the dice roll!
Im new to Oathmark and trying to find players in my area.
What did you use for a Bharghest mini?
Love the battles! Thanks.
Subscribed!!
Cheers mate! It's a great game, though I would say that 😄
The Barghest is a 3D print from Warp Miniatures: www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-barghests-242622
Wonderful battle report, thank you for sharing it.
I was wondering, what's the size of that battlefield? Looks like a 40x40'' or 48x48''? I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out my own table solutions to play wargames and this battle was about the exact scale and model number I'm looking for!
Cheers mate, I'm glad to hear it!
It's just shy of 48"x48" (45x45" to be exact, but close enough!)
brilliant bat rep!
Cheers mate! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
fun with the additional narration to set the scene :) thanks
Cheers mate! I'm glad you enjoyed!
The goblin wolves look great!
Cheers Grunt!
If you haven't seen it yet, I did a video on how I painted them many, many moons ago: th-cam.com/video/xZKB8xaeEUs/w-d-xo.html
@@AshandStoneNZ Thanks! I watched it and they look great! I don't have a airbrush or the skills to handpaint that scheme though so I'll just go with black wolves 😂
Bugger!
Mines criminally underused but it's certainly handy when the moment is right!
Stirring Goblins? Does Moxis have some skeletal hand in there already?
It looked so good for the Goblins, but then it just fall apart. How is your opinion on the Barghest? I always thought it a bit expensive for the fact that you cannot attack after discorporating and its combat stats aren't particularly overwhelming either, even if you set it up correctly. In this particular case it met an overwhelming opponent in the Ox, but it will otherwise really only be worth its points if it is able to tackle enemy units in the back, so it gains a bit more durability.
Concerning spears, I think we talked about it before, something needs to be done and I like your idea. I just read the "Barons War" Rules, where spears prevent enemies from counterattacking, if they are not armed wiht spears as well, but there is a lot more action limitation in that game anyway, so this wouldn't be 100% applicable for Oathmark.
Not yet! I imagine this happens around the same time he's trying to access the laboratory.
The Barghest is an interesting one. I think it relies a lot on timing and a bit of luck. It's got the mobility to get where it's needed, shielding and D11 means it's got a reasonable chance of surviving till then, and it can hit hard with the champion dice and Wild Charge. And then you have Horrify on top! I don't think it's too badly priced, but it's certainly not a mindless monster you can send and forget.
It had a good chance of messing up the Human lines this game, in it's final fight it had the spearmen needing 8's on one dice for their morale test, which isn't great odds. It just got really unlucky with Edmunds high roll! And unfortunately, being 20% of the forces points, it's loss >hurt
@@AshandStoneNZ I see. Just haven't learned their lesson then these Goblin Buggers, have they?!
Right, I forgot Horror, this can come into play heavily. You might just hit someone Disordered in the back and kick them off the field.
I couldn't even remember. 😅 We also talked about it in my group and it is as you say, logicwise you could come up with lots of good mechanics, you just need to be sure, you do not overdo it. With this one for example you could run into the question, whether it makes sense to tie it to infantry or base size/monster rule or something. Would be a question of "Do you want a giant to be impeded by some halfling pitchforks?" Because they would potentially also be spears, from a rules perspective. 😅
Not big on the learning, Goblins. At least not from others experience anyway!
Yeah, it may have been better this game to hit that disordered unit and hope for a good cascading panic. But at the time, tying down the big scary unit of spears with the scary champion seemed a reasonable priority! Didn't pan out 😆
Yeah, that could be a concern. I think I'm ok with it. I figure that if you had to fight a Giant in melee, you would want something like a spear so that you're as far away as possible!
If you're a poor infantryman, you're probably looking at driving it off rather than killing it and if you are a Giant, being poked by a bunch of sharp sticks is probably going to be enough to make you flinch and look for another approach!
The Halfling example might be a little on the absurd side, but generally I think it holds up, without making it too complicated with too many exceptions and qualifiers. Worst case, just don't give the Halfling Pitchforkmen the rule! They probably wouldn't even slow a cavalry charge anyway. 😆
Halfling Pikemen on the other hand.... 🤔
Where did you get the grey plastic measuring sticks?
They are 3D printed. You can grab the files for a buck here: www.wargaming3d.com/product/folding-12-and-60-ruler/
Fantastic battle! Where did you get the light catapult and the donkeys? I’m starting my dwarf army and want to add one of it! I would love to have something similar to your unit.
Cheers Juan! The donkeys are a 3D print I found on Thingiverse, the catapult itself is my own 3D print design.
@@AshandStoneNZawesome! Hopefully one day you decide to share the file! So glad to have found your channel!
One of these days I'll sort it out!
What size bases did you use for your wolf riders?
I used 40mm rounds with a custom movement tray to suit.