OH FUCK I made a typo in the content warning, the timecode leads you right into the middle of the worst scene!!!! I'm so sorry! The actual timecode is 6:59
I had forgotten about that but now I think it was more like had repressed that. Considering I don’t remember much of imprinting aside from going “that’s .... weird and bad.” I think I purposefully didn’t think about it for as long as possible. Yeesh
I almost slapped an apologist for it once. "oh but he didn't want to marry her as a baby, he wanted to marry her as an adult and she'll be an adult in a few days" doesn't change the fact that he saw a baby and decided 'that's my mate for life' or that becoming an adult quickly doesn't change the fact that Renesme was literally only a few days old when she became 'of mating age'. I didn't even know other members of his pack then. Apparently the 'imprinting on a baby' thing is also very very Morman which shouldn't have surprised me as much as it did but...ew.
@@tristanhartup4936 there isn't any evidence to say that she is homophobic but there is a lot of evidence pointing to her being very ignorant and heavily sheltered even in her adult yrs about everything in the world.
"her body was wrong" "she wasn't as female as she should be" OMFG. What is wrong with Meyer to write something like this, and not be a thing said for the bad guys or to be proven wrong? She really thinks like this. This is so disrespectful and inconsiderate to women who can't become pregnant.
She is from a religious background where there is a firm belief that it is your duty to have as many children as possible. Its really not all that shocking. If you believe you have a religious imperative to continue your lineage, failing to do so is a sin. Do I agree? No. I believe we are heavily overpopulated. But if I believed it was a mortal sin to refuse to have kids...
It's the flipside to Breaking Dawn's obsessibe glorification of motherhood. Bella (and Meyer) want to be applauded for reproducing, and other women who can't or won't are presented as lesser and incomplete by contrast.
I hate how part 2 demonizes Leah when she has every reason to be pissed; Bearing in mind her boyfriend/fiancee left her for her cousin because he imprinted on her, said cousin is like her sister and gets mauled by said boyfriend and is gonna marry him, her Dad dies, she becomes the only female werewolf putting her into an existential crisis and her little bro becomes a werewolf and so has to worry about him. Also, the pack mind means she has to hear how exboyfriend is so happy with her cousin. But because she yells at Bella and that she really hates hearing how Sam is being happy with her cousin when she is a werewolf, she's somehow in the wrong?
This saga is awful but the criticism that i be hearing on the internet were for the complete wrong reasons! And ive been repeat them when i was younger goddamn
@@ikeelufoo77 there is a little bit of Leah near the end of book 2, where she plans with Jacob on what she is gonna do; basically it boils down to taking Yoga to help deal with her anger issues, and once she got that under control she would stop being a werewolf for good and then go do Uni and get a job outside of her reservation. Basically so much character development done and handled almost maturely and sensible and it was done by accident!
Another detail with imprinting. How messed up is it that the werewolf will be subconsciously warped to be the perfect partner for a personality that doesn't even exist yet. I know, world's smallest violin for the child-groomer. But just everything in this depiction of "love" is so monstrous.
You realize by the strictest reading they are groomers because they lack intent but your parents do because they do raise you to manipulate you emotionally and possibly financially. I dislike people making light of that word by comparing it to fictional brainwashed werewolves
Technically they aren't groomers because they have no intent to harm or manipulate their victims. The groomers are the parents allowing these supernaturally forced men to spend time with the object of their obsession that they have no control over. Its terrible for the werewolf and the girl.
I mean, it's really devastatingly sad. Their entire mind gets torn apart and rebuilt just to hopefully get the approval of someone they don't even really know....
Or hey, if you really have to have it be a person he hasn't met already *points to all the vampire ladies, one of which is related to the other half-vampire*. Come on.
I was 100% convinced she was setting up Jacob + Leah as these like scorned lovers who help each other grow then fall in love, but no...she went with grooming....
I think Meyer's aim of making Leah an "anti Bella" unintentionally resulted in a potentially interesting female protagonist of a coming of age supernatural story that was happening in the outskirts of the tragedy we had to read instead. There are several aspects in both Bella's and Leah's lives that are opposite reflections of one another, and while in Bella's case they lead her to being trapped in the shitty life she has at the end (something Meyer considers good), in Leah's case they lead her to independence (which Meyer sees as solitude). I don't wanna bore everyone here with this, but the main points of comparison, chronologically, are: 1) when Bella finds Edward and becomes tied to him forever, Leah loses Sam and the expected future she was meant to have with him (she dodged a bullet, but Meyer doesn't seem to think so) 2) while Bella gains a father figure with Charlie (who she ends up always dismissing), Leah not only loses her father, she is forced to take his place as the pillar of the family (something that in Meyer world doesn't seem to be desirable for a female character) 3) while Bella is forced to join a coven by wanting to be with Edward and subsequently follow the cult rules of the vampires, Leah actively leaves her pack out of her own free will, to both get away from Sam's sorry ass and protect her little brother 4) while Bella constantly gains what Meyer considers "attractive feminine traits" (such as vampiric beauty and grace), Leah constantly loses them (Meyer makes a point of the Bro Pack treating her as undesirable and see her as an 'other') 5) when Bella becomes pregnant and gets the Meyer fantasy of the 'higher calling of motherhood', Leah is said to be unable to do so, something that, following the imprinting rules from hell as established in theories from the books, could potentially mean that Leah is free from imprinting AT ALL, allowing her to fall in love with whoever she wants or not falling in love at all and maintaining her free will, becoming the one character who isn't compelled to love 6) when Bella becomes a shield to her coven (because of the stupid power she had all along), Leah becomes a potentially rouge weapon, because not only she is described as the fastest wolf in both packs, Meyer's bullshit of the genes thing backfired with Leah because she inherited shape-shifter genes from all three families, something the Bros don't have So, tldr: as a result of Meyer's bullshit perspective on femininity and her opposing Bella to Leah at every turn, she unintentionally wrote the anti-Twilight potential story in the outskirts of her own narrative.
🙌This comment is gold 🙌 also, looks how bella attracts all the men around her, for better or for worse, Edward, Mike, Jacob, James, Aro, even the hybrid boy at the end. They are fascinated by her. And Leah only gets disgust or indifference. And in both cases is for something they are, nothing they do to deserve it.
Yeah even with other examples like Prometheus and age of Ultron the female who is worried about that is dismayed and told they're inability to reproduce doesn't make them bad, then they go onto prove they're worth by saving the universe from aliens bent on genocide. However, Leah is useless and treated like a crybaby instead of proving she's still useful
I still believe Leah should have been the one sought after in the pack because if someone, specifically her, hidden werewolf genes were so strong enough to bend the rule of "only guys are werewolves", most stories would be like "hey, this woman is the first of her kind meaning she has the strongest genes ever." Imprinting wouldn't even be a thing for her because most of the guys would want her as their mate because she's a rarity, and rarity means different the bloodline would be something on a higher plane of existence. Hell, she would use this against the wolf pack that scorned her by getting with a normal human person because she is not making with dudbros who mocked her, and she would rather "waste her genes" with a human. The fact SM said nah to potential that she accidentally made makes me so upset for Leah. Like come on!
I got your Leah answer. Leah is there for two reasons: 1. to show how full of rage and miserable someone is if they end up without a soulmate/children. 2. She’s there to show us why we should be happy for Jacob to end up with the half vampire baby...Lest he ends up like Leah. Leah deserved so much better...
Leah is such an underutilized character. I would have loved if she and Jacob ran off after the baby was born to heal their wounds. their unexpected friendship is legit my favorite part of the series, probably bc Meyer didnt really intend for it to be so interesting. Leah has the most nuance of every character in this series lmao
@@Xehanort10 Hi, Mormon here. The church does have a strong emphasis on families (and LDS culture has a *lot* of issues) but there are also people like me who don't intend to have any children. "Brainwashed" is a bit harsh.
The only reason Leah was infertile is the same reason why Rosalie (and other female vampires) is infertile: to make Bella more special and Mary Sue as a vampire, because she gets sparkly immortality AND the hellspawn.
The bit about not being able to discuss "female" issues is absolutely true. Mama Doctor Jones is a OBGYN TH-camr who dedicates her channel to educating her audience on reproductive health but she's mentioned before that actually referring to certain body parts with their medical definitions can be bad for her monetization. Think about that for a minute. An educator. Doing her best to help her audience make well informed decisions about their health and body. Being punished monetarily for doing so.
I love MDJ. I recommend her to everyone. If I have kids, I'm going to have the father binge watch her entire channel, like here's your homework. There will be a quiz.
I watch her videos too! It was nice seeing her video on PCOS and her other videos on many subjects that just aren't talked about. It's crazy how she keeps getting demonetized too. Glad she has sponsors.
Will admit, I tend not to judge Emily so much in the Sam-Emily-Leah thing. Because...well. She tried to say no. And he ripped her face off. And their whole community decided that it was her fault for refusing him. (Seriously, fuck Meyer for how she treated the Quileute tribe). Under the circumstances, I would not be surprised if she just decided that keeping her head down and playing along was her best chance for survival, no matter how 'sorry' Sam claimed to be, since if she said no again and it set off another burst of werewolf-rage...she might not survive it this time.
I'll admit it's been quite a while since I've laid eyes on these books but I don't remember anyone actually saying that Sam's outburst was related to Emily rejecting him? Was Dom inferring here or was that direct from the text?
@@forggettingink I haven't read the book itself but I think I read somewhere the reason Sam scarred Emily was because she compared him to his dad who ran out on the family. But either way, it's pretty fucked up she still agreed to date him after he had an outburst that scarred her...
To me it sounds like Emily has Stockholm syndrome (though of course Meyer won't recognize or acknowledge that), so I just feel bad for her. The book would have been infinitely more satisfying if Leah and Emily reconciled and told Sam to eff off.
@@forggettingink That was in the guide. He had his hand out, trying to warn her to back away because he was losing control, but she misinterpreted it, got closer and when he phased, the hand turned into a clawed paw and grew outward enough to reach her face. That's how she got those scars.
@@strawberrysoulforever8336 Well, clearly, then it was all Emily's fault. 🤦 Seriously, between the way Meyer's treats Indigenous people and people of color in general not to mention women just disgusts me. You're not a "real woman" if you don't procreate? You have to have a "man" or you'll go around miserable like you have a hole in your chest? Stalking is romantic? The one black vampire we meet gets practically no page time before he's shredded by the wolves. Was she trying to fit All the problematic tropes into 1 series on purpose?
I truly appreciated the "value of a woman being connected to her ability to reproduce" section. As a woman who has never wanted to reproduce, and has had to deal with people expressing very strong opinions about that, it is deeply refreshing. To have that implied lack of value acknowledged for the utter crap it is was truly moving.
LOUDER! FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK! Being a woman who hasnever wanted kids myself, try being that way while SURROUNDED by Mormons. Oh, I _never_ had to search or guess at all to see the Mormon implications in the Twilight series. They're blazing neon right in front of your face.
Also, when a person who was born female that likes children, it's almost immigrating a thing other people comment on. "oh, you'd be such a good mother" "You'd be so beautiful as a mother" "one day you'll make someone a happy dad" I don't want children, I like children, love children really, but don't give them to me. They will die. I will die. I will maybe even do it all myself, because I know myself better that you, random woman/man
Same. My mother and grandmother keep telling me that I need to consider having babies at some point, to which I then reply by reminding them that I consistently fail at even keeping potted plants alive.
Same. I'm unable to bear children and my husband and I never wanted them (thankfully) But I still get crap about it from both of our parents. Like do I need to grab my medical records or wear a sign that says "OUT OF ORDER" on me for you to get the hint?
Yh for all ppl talk about women's right but when a woman chooses not to be a mother because they just don't want to, they instantly dogpile on you on how can you be a woman? Like what the fuck? you just want me to sleep with a bunch of dudes to get a baby or something? luckily my parents are chill, they just want me to be happy and if I can be happy without birthing kids then that's fine.
You know, the whole imprinting thing never bothered me as a 12 year old kid reading it. I guess because the books were so unsexual and I was very sheltered anyway that it never hit me that Jacob and Quil were basically groomers. As an adult I can now say it is deeply uncomfortable and fucked up, just thought I'd offer my thoughts on how it might not necessarily bother a kid who thought the peak of romance was holding hands and a chaste kiss.
I was 14 when I read it and...yeah, for the mental gymnastics I pulled off to make it not creepy to myself I should be an Olympic champion. And I was NOT sheltered in termes of sex and sexuality-neither was ever a taboo topic in any sense of the word especially once I entered my teen years. So 14 year old me doesn't even have the excuse of being sheltered. I mean, I guess the fact that I had to resort to mental gymnastics means that I was always somewhat uncomfortable but....yeah...nope....14 year old me...WHAT THE FRICK?!?
As another 12 year old sheltered kid, I was surrounded by my friends and other girls who thought the idea of imprinting was the most romantic thing ever and how they would defend it so intensely. I doubt many of them still think that way today but it's so gross to think Meyer convinced a generation of minors that grooming was romantic and something to be jealous of. I hesitate to think how much harm that might've caused
I think it's pretty understandable, especially considering how inundated we were as kids with the love at first sight trope from all manner of media. Imprinting isn't too far of a leap from that concept, only it comes prepackaged with ridiculously squicky implications that could have totally been avoided if werewolves didn't imprint on literal children and babies.
yh I agree with you, I was sheltered too, so never saw the signs of a groomer at age 12 or 13 when I first started reading it; but now all I can say to myself is What the Fuck 12 yr old me?
I'm kinda sad there wasn't a mention of that weird theory that Jacob was never attracted to Bella but instead to her unborn baby all along, like, he imprinted on her ovaries.
Well, in the book it is mentioned that the bond between Bella and Jakob grew stronger through her pregnancy, and afterwards, while defending his impritation, Jakob even mentioned something like :"Remember how hard it was to be away from you during your pregnancy? It was her (meaning Renesmee), it was always her." So yes, he probably started to imprint on Renesmee while she was still un mothers womb... Gosh, the older I get, the more cringy and horrible all this Bull...t seems...
Haha not only is that strange, but it's not thought out at all. It takes two to tango?? I don't know if anyone else saw that tumblr post that attempted to rationalize it but it basically boiled down to Jacob also getting weirdly into Edward/his balls for like a week before/during the wedding because that's when the sperm half would have been present. Overall, 1/10 Stephanie Meyer. Try again, preferably without the pedophilia this time :/
Come on, not even Meyer could be THAT ignorant. Each time a couple has sex there are hundreds of sperm meeting an egg randomly generated from the mother's DNA. The chance of the correct sperm finding the correct egg is so absurdly low it would take a literal act of God for the girl Jacob imprints on to be born exactly the way she needs to be for him to imprint.
That’s. That’s not how biology works. Your personality doesn’t exist in any specific egg. You aren’t pre-determined to be yourself. Everyone exists on accident, as in when your parents or what have you created baby you, they had no idea what person would be in the baby. I’m sorry it’s a funny TH-cam comment but that like of thinking is just so ugh
Between Bella's addiction to Edward and actual physical inability to be without him without going mad, and werewolves and their imprintees total lack of agency in "falling in love" with one another, Stephenie seems to have some really worrying ideas of what love is.
It's Limerence, a psychological obsession with another person often called infatuation or "Honeymoon love" this is a psychological addiction to another and it's the often believed to be love. Unfortunately this is when most people get married and make long lasting choices that will impact them forever and yes it does fade over time. After Limerence fades is when a person starts to see the other person for who they are rather than the obsession of desire and they sometimes fall apart.
To be fair, as its been like 10 to 15 years. People change their ideas and writing styles during that time. Stephanie Meyer would have been amongst the art scene... So we could have a competent Leah story yet...
Honestly, both in the book and in the film, the birth scene is probably the one i was most invested in... U know, besides the awesome battle at the end that... Never happened in the first place whoopsie my bad
You know what’s even scarier? The birthing scene is tame compared to what she originally wrote before her editor and publisher forced her to tone it down.
Consider this: A sequel, set 15 years after the end of this book. Claire is all grown up. So Quil thinks it’s time for them to mate. And she rejects him. Enraged, he becomes a werewolf in front of her. She is horrified. The person she grew up seeing as a big brother figure turned out to be a figurative and literal monster. And he won’t leave her alone. He stalks her, refuses to leave her alone, refuses to take no for an answer. She’s afraid for her life. Then, one day, as he’s following her, he’s attacked by another werewolf. A pack of wolves gather around Claire and try to protect her. The leader, having chased Quil away, approaches her. It turns back into a human, revealing that it’s Leah. She’s now an alpha female leading her own pack. And they’re going about righting the wrongs of Sam’s pack.
oh my god. this is... really, really dope, and i feel SO HYPED at the prospect???? if anyone writes this... if you write it, or allow someone to write it as fanfiction.... gosh. immediate read
A++ fanfic idea, would read with glee. You could also underscore though Claire and Leah's friendship that the whole "werewolf protecting human" trope is so much more meaningful when it's a conscious choice on both sides.
I just want to say, I am a woman with a genetic disorder that has made my life a frequent hell. I could get pregnant, but it would almost definitely kill me to try and carry to term. I have been asking my dr's for sterilization, one after another, and been rejected over and over. One even told me I should be abstinent if I was really anxious about the issue. After nearly 15 years of going through one GYN after another, I have finally found one who will work with me to get me the safest and least invasive sterilization procedure available, and I Can't Get It Because COVID! I went a bit off on a rant there. What I really wanted to say was, society since the beginning of time has glorified women for their ability to procreate. Even very indirectly, we are taught (all of us, not just women), that a woman unable to bear children is less of a woman. When I was first told (about age 10 which is a whole other level of fucked up in a way) that "having children someday would be very dangerous" for me, I cried. I had those terrible thoughts that I was lesser because of this incapacity. For a time, I was determined to try when I found the right person to settle down with. I was about twenty when one of my cousins had a baby, and my grandmother (in the middle of me having a painful episode of benign chest pain) turned to me and said, "I hope some day I'll get to hold your baby." I froze. Pain and anger froze me. I said nothing to her the rest of the day (I was staying with her for a couple of days because holidays). For the first time in ten years, I relived all those terrible thoughts and feelings like it was the first time all over again. I cried for hours, quietly, having pretended to go to bed early. Then, when I couldn't cry anymore, I got angry. Why the Fuck should I have to risk my life when there are millions of children desperate for foster homes?! No, I decided. Fuck that. Fuck society. Yes, motherhood can be a wonderful and momentous part of a woman's life, but it does not define the life of every woman. I am not going to be a mother, and that's not a crime, and it doesn't make me less, and why the fuck am I putting all this in a youtube comment? Damnit Dom. I blame you for this. Thank you for an amazing video.
I hope you did finally manage to successfully get your sterilization procedure done and that you're with more positive and supportive people now. Wishing all the strength and good health to you, ma'am🍀🍀
God, I hate how you had to go through all that, and really hope you were able to get your procedure, or that it's at least on schedule! I just wanted to add, if you did want to be a mother, to nurture and raise a life, there are lot of other ways to do so other than physically giving birth. A mother isn't just someone who give birth to you, it's who loved you and took care of you. I understand it might be hard to even think about considering how traumatic dealing with your situation was. But if you do still wish to be a parent, there are options. Other than things like surrogacy, there are lots of kids in orphanages and foster care that need loving homes. They may not have your genetics, but they would still be your child. And it's one less child that would be growing up without a home and people to truly love them. I just wanted to put that out there, since I do see people that go through similar situations, but may still feel a calling to be a parent, and parents are still valid parents of their children regardless of if they share any genetics. In the end, the ability to have children, or how many kids someone does or doesn't have, it makes zero bearings on your womanhood or your value as a woman or as a human. Your value comes from simply being alive, and how you impact the world around you, in big or small ways.
I'm a year late but fuck yes. Women should not be defined by their genitals or organs. I hope one day you are able to heal from the trauma of having that garbage forced onto you, and that you have finally gotten your sterilization. I'm not a woman(trans dude, in fact) but I relate very strongly with your anger and fear. I hated that certain organs and certain genitals determined my entire life's purpose was to bear crotchspawn, it always made me feel immensely ill. I felt like I had no worth or autonomy because of some fuckin eggs in a sack and a uterus. All I was going to be was a baby machine. And that absolutely killed me inside. It always hurts to see women who share similar feelings, but who love being women, go through that same mental torture. Women are far more than the sum of their parts, YOU are far more than the sum of your parts. I'm so, so glad you were able to overcome that womanhood is motherhood bs. I hope you are proud of your ability to overcome it. Take good care of yourself sis, solidarity. ✌
I'm amazed that Meyer insists that women need to have kids while simultaneously showing her absolute and total ignorance of how pregnancy and female physiology work. If ever there were a Mormon stance perfectly stated. I got a spinal fusion at 14 and was told that carrying to term would be difficult. I think I kind of checked out of the "women in society" game when that happened. What kind of guy would want me when I was already deformed? I've never wanted kids, and when people are like "What are you going to do?" my answer is "Whatever the fuck I feel like." I've watched my friends go through divorces and become single mothers with manchildren whose default is weaponized incompetence. I don't feel the least bit guilty for not wanting to eat the shit sandwich of free domestic labor, free childcare, and impossible standards involving taking care of someone else's ego. I much prefer weed, horses, dogs, and art. Solidarity, sister!
Actually, sterilisation is dfficult even if you already have baby's, as was in my case. Long story short - I am a mother of four. First child was natural birth, then a big pause because my marriage was just plain awful, but I was raised to believe I should try to save marriage even if it is bad. after 7 years I finally divorced and after a while married my second husband. My second child was waited and begged for, natural birth, everything was ok. then, after merely a year, I got pregnant again, even so we protected ourselves. I am against killing a pregnancy, so I carried on, even through wery hard times, when I was at the crisis centre being afraid that I will raise my kids alone. eventually, everything settled down, but when it was ttime to give birth, in the last moments something went wrong and I had to have an emergency cesarian section. Luckily, the boy survived, but, after merely a year, while still using condoms every time with my husband, I got pregnant again. My beautifull daughteer was on the way, but, beecause I had a cesarian section just a year before, they recomended me to ask for a planned cesarian section, just to be safe that we both survive. As I decided, that four is enaugh, I also asked to have a sterilisation during the operation, which would be totally free. And still, despite all the circumstances, I had to argue with doctors -first, to have a cesarian section, because it was too dangerous for me to give birth naturally: they wanted to have the least amount of planned cesarian sections as possible, so they cared about their status, not my health. And, because, If I have the sterilisation done together with cesarian section, it will be free, they tried to persuade me to change my mind, maybe if I would want another kid in the future... I got what I wanted, I'm sterile now and love all my children, but Gosh, what a war it was to make someone in those medical facilities to take in mind my decisions and free will above all that bureaucracy..............
wow, going from a “not like other girls, Twilight bad” phase and then watching the Lindsey Ellis video and deciding “maybe Twilight fine” only to watch these videos and find that “TWILIGHT BAD, TWILIGHT VERY BAD”
My biggest issue is that the main critiques of Twilight during the anti-Twilight hay day was basically just "lul sparkly vampire" not "hey this romanticizes and normalizes abuse and pedophilia"
@Maia Gaia Yes, THANK YOU! I wasn’t really a fan of twilight, but it pissed me off (and still does) when other people criticise it because “vampires aren’t sparkly, that’s fairies” or “werewolves shouldn’t transform like that”. Like, those aren’t the real problems, can we focus a bit on everything else that is terrible For just two seconds?
@@maia_gaia I was part of the anti-Twilight crowd during that time lol and it definitely was a big thing that was brought up a lot? The stalking, glorifying of abuse and weird obsessive behaviour, especially the handling of suicide and mental illness/depression in New Moon, romanticising it etc... all those iirc were prime targets for the anti-Twilight groups back then. Pedophilia and even necrophilia (the whole 'cold body with no heartbeat is sexy' thing) were also frequently brought up. I remember writing an opinion piece for a school newsletter (didn't get published lol) about how the Twilight series was dangerous for normalising really horrible ideas and aiming them at a young teen female audience and people just gobbling it up/not paying attention to the real messages in the books. Although yeah I do believe the most... visible hatred was probably the whole 'sparkly vampires wut lulz' rhetoric but all the above critique definitely existed. Just maybe not many people paid attention to that side of things.
What’s also disturbing to me is how Bella’s obsession with Edward extends to her child. Bella literally pictures her unborn baby to essentially a miniature version of Edward, with his name, hair, features, and nothing like her.
I dunno it works like that sometimes. My 7 months old son looks just like his dad. Eyes, hair and even my husband's eye wrinkles. I basically gave birth to my husband's clone. Lol
@@Shadowfate93 I think the intention was that it was weird that is how she fantasized about her child. Also... my girl. So many of my Asian family popped out blonde haired blue eyed aryan babies you would think recessive Gene's were staging a coup! You never know how they are gonna turn out lol!
@@Shadowfate93 please read www.mindsparklearning.com/grieving-the-loss-of-the-ideal-child/ even though your child isn't disabled. Because seeing kids as a parent's clone usually causes a lot of unnecessary grief for both the child and parent, at 100% the parents fault.
Thank you for the awesome content sir. I’m in awe and so impressed with the level of detail that goes into your comparisons. I appreciate your passion. Have some tacos and know that I find you extremely pretty. 🌮🌮🌮
I'm so glad Dom spent so much time talking about Leah. He's the only one I've seen give her her due. Her story in the books is the absolute most tragic both in universe and out, and it's compounded for me with the fact that she's really the only POC that we get to know.
for a story that's supposed to have a fairytale happy ending, the twilight universe is just unrelentingly bleak. the individual characters are all doomed given how much they hate each other, the cullen way of life is for sure doomed given how keen on murder everyone except carlisle is, the volturi are probably doomed, and if they are, then all of humanity is doomed... if she'd only chosen to write horror she'd be remembered as a pretty good writer. it's no wonder esme has chosen to just go cheerfully insane, there's really no other possible reaction
@@jupitermelichios392 I feel like if she had gone the straight horror route, she may not have gotten as popular as she did, though. Twilight sticks out in the romance genre because of those horror elements "disguised" - not really, but for argument's sake - as romantic tropes.
All the werewolves are POC, but their depiction is so bad I wish there were just no POC people tbh. 😅 Though I agree Leah is the most interesting character of the story.
Yeah I distinctly remember reading Breaking Dawn at like, 16 or however old I was and re-reading Jacob's part multiple times because I found Leah so compelling. As someone who was assigned female at birth but has been treated like... Well, less than because I find the idea of having kids repugnant, her exploration of the wondering if you really are a whole person just because you can't/won't use your uterus was really relatable to me.
Why is Smeyer so intent on screwing over the women in her books by singularly punishing them in ways the men never are? Male vamps and werewolves retain their fertility, female vamps and werewolves don't, and we see through Rosalie and Leah how this impacts them negatively. Human women get imprinted on by werewolves and are forced to be their mates, risk death or mutilation if they reject them. Human women get with vampires, oops now they have demon babies, cue the most horrific, traumatizing gestation and birth possible that always results in death. I just don't get why a woman would create a fantasy world that punishes females for being female. Is it a Mormon thing or what?
I doubt it. it's probably just a crazy thing. Brandon Sanderson, for example, the other most prolific LDS fantasy author I know gives his female characters equal power and depth to the males.
Probably conservative religious thing in general. Men are the image of God, the original, women are imperfect variation of the ideal. Women are supposed to suffer because of the sin of Eve. And female infertility is just a easy way to explain low population. Immortality and fertility would cause population problem pretty soon.
@@Ruinwyn The LDS church actual dose not believe Eve did anything wrong and there is not punishment associated with her actions. So for this particular example the writer is probably just a crazy lady.
The way you get angry like that is so reassuring. It's so easy to get into my head, think I'm just hysterical and it's all in my head, or that no one cares. Watching another person, let alone a man who isn't directly affected by them, care passionately about these issues reminds me that I'm not just crazy and alone. Thank you so much for putting yourself through this for our sake.
Yes, I agree. I'm so happy that he sees through all the bullshit and is calling everything out on it. And I wanted to stand up and start slow clapping when he stood there silent, shrugged his shoulders and said Fuck you Stephanie Meyer lol I feel like people try to be way too nice towards her, even the people that don't like her writing, it's like everyone's afraid to say it and I'm like wtf? No! She does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. She wrote some pretty messed up crap that has had a negative effect on real people's lives and she just gets to sit there counting all her money. UGH
@@angelamartzen7499 His "Fuck you Stephanie Meyer" response to the line saying Leah wasn't as female as she should be because she couldn't have kids was exactly what I was thinking too. Meyer doesn't seem to understand that not all couples have or want kids. Some of them are perfectly happy with it just being them. The whole "You're doomed to a life of loneliness and misery if you don't get married and have kids" belief she has is a really unfortunate implication. There are plenty of both men and women who stay single their whole lives and are perfectly happy. Of course Meyer would probably have a heart attack if she learned that.
@@Xehanort10 It is really just such a deeply ingrained cultural/religious thing in the Utah region, it's hard to understand. Getting married and having children is literally the ultimate goal for women in Mormon culture and beliefs. Like, really. You won't get into the Celestial kingdom if you don't. But don't worry, if you are do die single but worthy of it otherwise, you will be given as a wife in the afterlife and produce... well the best term for it is "spirit babies", for the rest of eternity. I wish I was making that up. Everyone getting paired off in the books is pretty much par for the course of her culture. But, I'll be frank, imprinting feels a lot more FLDS than I am comfortable with and I wonder if that may have had more to do with it and it wasn't a random idea but another cultural one.
@@Xehanort10 I don't think that was his original goal as he was a fortune hunter for years and it's not like he didn't spend his youth seeing the rise of many an American cult leader. However, he did decide, during his reign, that yeah, he did also kind of want a harem. Naturally, his wife wasn't keen.
While the other Twilight books are based on teen angst and romantic pining, Breaking Dawn takes a sharp left turn where everything becomes focused on motherhood. Rosalie and Esmee and Leah all suffer because they can't get pregnant, compared to Bella who gets the miracle baby she never knew she always wanted. It's like Stephanie Meyer thinks that motherhood is the point of being a woman, which, intentional or not is a weird message for a teenage vampire romance book. As a woman who knew from an early age that I would never be able to have kids ... I relate to Leah a lot. Her feelings are unpleasant and make her difficult to be around, but it's not her job to be pleasant. For a woman in a terrible situation she is doing a great job. #TeamLeah She deserved a better franchise.
I almost feel compelled to write a fan fiction where Leah becomes her own alpha, breaks away from Sam and Jacob’s pack permanently and starts her own. Maybe her pack could consist of lost werewolves whose packs either died out or rejected them so she could become the mother of several werewolves. Kind of like White Beard from One Piece.
Speaking as a 51-year-old childfree woman who's been given shit for it for three decades now, thank you for seeing it. It's very validating when someone not only realizes it happens, but also realizes it's awful.
Man... I'm 25 now and still getting the 'oh, just wait 'til you're older!' speeches. I kind of hoped we'd reach 30 and people would stop commenting on it since apparently that's the magic age where women suddenly turn from childfree to baby crazy
@@gokuxsephiroth4505 I hate to be the bearer, but the last time someone told me I "still have time"? I was 45. 🙄 I do look young for my age, but still.
At 25 I was told I was 'no spring chicken' and should 'get on it.' At 35 I was told my 'life would truly start' when I had kids. Fuck all that shit. My purpose on this earth is not to spawn. I'd get a hysterectomy if I thought it would actually make people back off, but they would just say, 'oh, don't worry, you can adopt.'
@@gokuxsephiroth4505 I'm 35 and my mother loves to remind me that I "still have time to change my mind" and find a man to marry and pop out a bunch of kids. Expect to hear it for another 15 years.
@@MisBabbles Oh don't forget that doctors won't actually perform a hysterectomy on you until you're around 30 (or so I've heard, it varies from place to place), and even then, they're reluctant to do it because "Well what if your future husband wants kids?"
You pointing out briefly that Leah, and quite a few other side characters are more interesting than the protagonists is precisely why I don't immediately blank out whenever I come across twilight related content.
I've always thought this. Like even when I read the books when I was younger, I never liked Bella or Edward. The side characters have the best stories! I'd love to hear more of Alice's story (although there's a great fan made film on some of it) and Jasper's story. Leah and Embry from the pack would be kind of interesting to hear more about. Even Emmett was more interesting to me than the others. It's sad when the main characters of the books are the ones I like the least in a book series and it's amazing I ever actually read all of the books.
To be fair to Carlisle; he's what a 200 something year old doctor vampire. When he earned his license the cutting edge of medical technology was leeches and cleaning your bonesaws after every use.
Except that he literally works in a modern-day hospital. He has tons of access to medical books and knowledge being produced every year. I'm fairly sure he's kept up on this field.
@Joseph Douek In Midnight Sun, apparently he does go back to school every few decades or so, but only after Rosalie and Edward have prepared him for it first, so he knows how to "act." I mean.... I guess? At least they don't stay in high school in perpetuity
Eh, I wouldn't really blame "Carlisle" for any of his flaws. Trying to writing a character that has field-specific knowledge that the author doesn't have obviously has challenges. Add to that the need to have the main characters come up with solutions to problems rather than relying on a perfectly knowledgeable side character.... *shrug*
@@ixta Yeah but that also means Meyer needed to do research, which she could’ve done the year 2008 when this book was released. Their were online articles, she could’ve ask doctors in real life just to know. She has no excuse, she’s just lazy.
My explanation as to why people could find these books enjoyable: Not everyone's alarm bells are calibrated the same. Even if they normally would be sensitive to these warning signs people can and will slip into a different, less guarded mindstate when reading fiction. To quote the Dresden Files: “Time after time, history demonstrates that when people don't want to believe something, they have enormous skills of ignoring it altogether.”
'it's not that deep' So most people won't look at the situations critically while reading them. Each one is just a short segment that doesn't mean much, but a critical reader who is used to reading for meaning will see each line as a whisper of more unexpressed ideals.
@@eamonndeane587 At least its saved from American Adaptation hell! could you imagine Hollywood doing Berserk? I fear the day Hollywood turns its eyes toward my favorite anime. Death Note 2017 was bad enough.
The funny thing is, they’re vampires and werewolves. Meyer could have wrote Edward, Bella, and their baby going off somewhere for a while til baby grew up, then they move back or Jacob finally finds them and THATS when he imprints. Same end, could have completely eliminated child imprinting
Yep, that's what got me. Even if Meyer was insistent on this Jacob/Renesmee thing, literally any other method of execution would be better. Like Jacob left for a worldwide trip, right? Imagine him growing up and maturing a bit on that trip, then returning decades later (when Renesmee is easily into her adult years, like her 30s or 40s with her own experiences behind her) then imprinting, ffs. Or the option you proposed, of the family going elsewhere and coming back. Or hell, leave everything the same but have Jacob imprint later (after choosing to leave the family alone and not interacting much), well into Renesmee's adult years and then have him go through this internal conflict. Sure, I'd still be extremely weirded out by all these options, but every last one of them would have been better than what we were given.
@@zaramikazuki8374 pretty much any option that doesn’t encourage child grooming (or pedophilia at worst) is better yeah. Even if they would all be weird and creepy.
True, though an even better tack would have been Meyer deciding, for her fictional world of her own creation, to just write the magic rules so that werewolves, I don't know, CAN'T imprint on anyone below a certain minority age. Would eliminate the potential for grooming completely.
@Arcana IX they wanted someone that looked exactly like the actress they had already hired to be Renesmee as a kid/tween, and that is really tough. And working with babies is tough, and even tougher if you tell the parent that the baby will basically have a meet-cute with a 25yo as one of their major scenes.
What always made the imprinting worse for me, is that Jakob didn't get the mother, so he got the daughter, like a pity prize. I really got the impression that connection was intentional. Bojack Horseman did an episode where he almost had sex with the teenage daughter of an ex-girlfriend. That episode really showed what a twisted thing that was and the shame the character would have to live with for the rest of his life. To Meyer, it was apparently romantic. Best case scenario is that she haven't really thought her ideas and their implications through. Because if she has...
Yeah, if that scenario - in which Penny wasn't even underage or groomed before their encounter - came across as so horrifying, I can't imagine what reading this imprinting stuff is like.
I didn't even make the Penny connection until now. Wow. That scene turned my guts cold as ice when I watched it and plunged Bojack into such loathsome depths, it should have been portrayed the same way with Jacob. It deserved to be
I always got the feeling that she didn't really know what to do with Jacob, what else his story would be, and this gives him a "happy ending" or future at leas in her eyes, and ties him to the Cullens still, as still being part of the family and a reason for him to stick around even after everything, and when they eventually move again.
There's a deleted scene in breaking dawn where edward reads jacobs mind right after he imprints and edward attacks him. I wish that level of hostility was kept throughout the rest of the franchise
Which begs to question - what thoughts were going through Jacob's head for Edward to lash out as he had? On second thought - maybe it's better we don't know. (though yes, something like that should have stayed in, as should have Bella's anger over the imprinting, as well. At least then it would have given the impression they both gave a shit about their daughter's well being/safety). It's just alarming how they both readily accepted the imprinting instead of killing Jacob outright. (wolf thing or not - that is a newborn baby and what he'd be doing with Renesmee as he waited for her to reach maturity would be grooming. No sane parent would allow that to happen to their baby).
I've only seen the extended version of this movie so I didn't realize that scene was originally deleted. That's an odd and interesting choice for the editing...
I've got a nice mix there, myself. Has taken me ages (and a lot of fan feedback) to finally accept that my brain is not an accurate judge of the quality of my writing -- but also, I've had those rare moments when my own writing did drive me to tears (sometimes before I've started to put the words down on paper/screen), and that's always a good time. Of course, for me, it's not romance but angst and feels and whump ^_^ Actually, when Dom asks about the appeal of this book... I haven't read it and don't think I'd like it if I did, but the over-the-top birth scene... well, the details were gross, *but* I've read scenes just as viscerally disturbing (actually, no, *more* viscerally disturbing), and found myself fully engaged in them. So at minimum, I think Whump lovers could enjoy that section. Heck, there's a truly over-the-top Traumatic Birth fic for *Good Omens* that makes the most of its premise, and while I wouldn't recommend it to... nearly anyone, I found it truly engaging, well researched, and something I occasionally get drawn back to for sheer artistry. Whump is a strange beast sometimes.
When Breaking Dawn came out, I was so HORRIFIED by the "imprinting on a baby" thing that I asked book fans how they could defend it. They said they found it relaxing, this idea that your perfect soul mate will just see you and instantly fall for you, so you don't have to worry about things like rejection, heart-break, risking dating someone who turns out not to be right for you, etc. Though I noted the people who liked it tended to be sheltered teenagers and the occasional housewife, who didn't think wife-husbandry was THAT big a deal bc they were too young or sheltered to know better.
Funnily enough, I feel like that sort of low-stakes guaranteed love thing is a lot more appealing to me as a single person in her mid-30s than it ever would have appealed to me as a teen with my whole life and potential relationships in front of me. (And even now it doesn't really appeal to me to read about. I don't read to experience comfortable, low-stakes lives.)
While it's true no one really wants to experience heartbreak and uncertainty and failures, those are just some of the tough parts of life that add to your development and character. I mean honestly, how can anyone even be sure that the person who is "perfect" for them is actually perfect for them if they don't even know what type of people are wrong for them? Life is full of trials and tribulations and some of them are actually quite necessary. The people who are so afraid of those things that they would rather a perfect happy existence be handed to them on a silver platter are really just weak people and I feel sorry for them. I used to be one of them. Hell, I even still struggle sometimes, at 34 years old, with the failures of my relationships that I find myself saying Oh why can't I just have someone perfect for me just find me and love me unconditionally forever just so I don't have to deal with this crap. But that is me in my weak moments. When I get out of those weak moments I realize I'm definitely a whole lot stronger of a person than I think I am and I can continue on, even if I go through more heartache. But those people that hope and dream and wish and pray for a fairytale love... that's just sad. I was once dumped by a guy because our relationship didn't make him feel like the movie A Walk to Remember.... it's so ridiculous I can't even bring myself to laugh. This is the real world. You can read/watch your fantasies and enjoy them for entertainment, but you just cannot base your life on it.
Imprinting as a fantasy concept is totally fine. Meyer's problem is that she introduced children and BABIES into this fantasy, and there is absolutely nothing sweet or romantic about that!
So Twilight fans don't want a loving partner. They just want a mindless slave to their every whim who's got no choice but to be completely obsessed with them. As if the fanbase wasn't creepy enough.
This is actually pretty much on the money. Although I am now an ex-mormon, I was raised in the Mormon church and was a teen just entering high school when Breaking Dawn was released. 99% of the pre-teen and teenage girls in my church were massive Twi-Hards. Looking back in a group of roughly 15 girls between the ages of 12 to 18, only one of us was actually disturbed by the imprinting plot. Most of us, myself included, made paper thin excuses that it wasn’t creepy because “they’ll only be in THAT kind of relationship when she’s all grown up and until then he’ll be more like a big brother or protector” etc. etc. And it was entirely because we were extremely sheltered in a very conservative cult and didn’t understand or know better.
The “magical eugenics” theory actually makes Jacob’s imprinting make a lot of sense in universe. Their future children (as gross as it is to imagine) would be 25% vampire as well as werewolf, so probably terrifying monsters.
It's actually implied that once halfblood children reach maturity, they become pretty much vampires with a bit of a tan, so idk about Jacob and Nessie having kids... But if there is one takeaway from this video, is that MEYER WILL FIND A WAY FOR THE BABIES
@@sharonspears-mandeville2369 this is probably going to make me look like a bit of an asshole, buut... I just feel compelled to point out that specifying "human" and then saying "dampyr" is teeensyy bit redundant and unnecessary since dhampir ARE by nature half-human/half-vampires(and the "were-" in werewolf _also_ means "human" ..sssooo😅😅). You could actually just say dhampir-wolves; Or else, you should probably say human-vampire-wolves, or maybe partly- vampire-werewolves or something. 😶🙃😅😅🤣Sorryy🙏🙏🙏🙃😅😹😹🤣🤣😶😶🤦♀️🤷♀️😂💜 _I'll see myself out now_ 🙂😅 😂
Honestly this just proves the potential of Twilight as a horror story. So many of its concepts with the right twists can be utterly terrifying on an existential level.
"I'm perfect for her, why wouldn't she love me?" is the most incel thing I've ever heard outside of the counterpoints video essay on the subject. That's gotta be the best line I've heard in quite a while!
The usual incel thing is "Why's she dating this bad boy instead of a nice guy like me" or "Why's he dating that mean girl instead of a nice girl like me." Because that lot believe they're entitled to sex and relationships, blame the entirety of men or women for their inability to get a girlfriend or boyfriend and lose it when them pretending to be "nice guys" or "nice girls" fails.
@@Xehanort10 Incel is still a perfect description for the imprinters, though - seeing as they feel the female obligated to having a relationship with him after everything he's done to make her happy (and we've seen what happens when a female tries to reject the imprinting. Never bought that 'she was standing too close' excuse to explain away Sam slashing Emily across he face when he morphed while in a fit of rage after she said he didn't want to be with him.
@@madamefluffy4788Do you know what that word means? It means involuntarily celibate. So how does that fit with any of the wolves? It kind of just sounds like you hate men in general. Also you believing something that goes against what happens in the text, doesn't make it true. Meyers wrote exactly what happened in that scene in the Official Illustrated guide which shows it was indeed an accident, and one that Emily caused by following Sam when he was trying to get away before he shifted. Leah it seems told her cousin (best friend) about Sam's insecurities and emotional damage at being abandoned by his father at a young age. Emily used that damage to hurt Sam to try and make him go back to Leah (Someone he does love, but didn't want to hurt because he could never love her the way he now loved Emily and it wasn't fair to Leah for him to just settle with her on Emily's orders). Saying he was a coward like his father and running away from his responsibilities upset Sam and realizing he couldn't control his emotions and realizing the danger tried to get away from her in the second or so before it happened. Emily thinking Sam was trying to get away from their exchange stepped toward him. He held up his hand to warn her away and shifted after she stepped toward him, which is why his claw got her face and arm because his hand was already in the air. You making up a headcanon of Sam intentionally slapping her around just because he is a guy is just 100% wrong. About as accurate as saying fire is made of cheese. There are plenty of things to get annoyed with in these books, making them up just makes you seem bias.
Whats funny is, its Jacob saying that no one else. And we no longer hear about it once he imprints. the official guide says that the wolves can see Quills mind and his love and adoration for Claire is 100% platonic, not romantic or expecting romance. Jacob is the one who seems to believe 100% its a breeding thing and even the official guide points out this theory is just that a theory the wolves have and that might not be accurate given Jacob's imprint. Jacob was also not really a reliable narrator of those theories to Bella and us the readers because of his own biases and resentments. He resented he didn't imprint on Bella and so viewed it all very toxically. Yeah a lot of imprints end up in a romantic relationship. Imprinting was also suppose to be incredibly rare before this pack (12 of 25 or so have imprinted, hardly rare) so what they thought they knew clearly isn't true. Still really stupid to even involve the children thing just make it only adults anyway. But she could easily do a new series explaining "Oh no those guys got it all wrong its about protecting those people, because their important to them, the tribe, destiny, etc." and its still 100% valid for the wolves to date their imprints in some cases like Sam and Emily, Jared and Kim, Paul and Rachel, etc. And in other cases be the protector, maybe Claire is destined to grow up to be a doctor that saves the tribes or something. We are dealing with Spirit Warriors so the spirits intervening to put a protector on someone who might have some importance or for a bloodline that is gonna be important later.
@@almightykue3914 Do you really think the "official guide" for a series that either has really stupid explanations for the things in it or none at all matters?
So... I was listening to the bit about imprinting and considering that Sam PERMANENTLY SCARRED EMILY when she turned him down, I can't help but think Claire's parents don't actually get a say. There is a very good chance that Quill would kill them for standing between him and his imprint.
I haven't read the books OR seen the movies, but just based on these videos I feel like Leah and Jacob hooking up and being happy ever after could have solved like... two of the most fucked up things about the book in one fell swoop.
But Leah can't have babies and that's the most important thing in the universe not to mention there needed to be a reeeeeaaallly good reason why he would want Bella and I actually 100℅ agree with you
@@norabaker5388 He could have just imprinted on Leah, though? Would have been an interesting "love story" that they were both late bloomers in the whole imprinting thing and didn't do it until they were both adults.
That idea sound good on the outside, but it would be just as bad honestly because then it's basically saying well looks like the rejects have to be together because they're not good enough for anyone else.
Or, rolling with the 'moTherHood iS eVerytHing' mindset, having her adopt, and exercise her maternal urges in an equally relevant way. Wasted opportunities...
Here's another one of the gigantic missed opportunities of these books: If Meyer really wanted to make having children such a huge deal for Leah, she could have used real wolf physiology to give an answer to her problem, and it would have worked pretty poetically. In the wild, the alpha wolf pair keeps the females of the pack in a state of agitation to prevent them from ovulating. Leah being under the control of Sam and being in constant emotional torment and rejection could have been the perfect explanation for why she wasn't having her cycle, and added to the liberation she had when being freed from Sam's style of leadership. It would have showed that Sam was the source of not only her romantic heartbreak but also the reason for her feeling incomplete as a woman. It could have been a great triumph for her to finally be free and also work as a metaphor for escaping the reach of an abusive ex-partner.
Unfortunately for this idea, the whole concept of alpha males and females in wolfpacks has been thoroughly debunked. It was an observation made of wolves in captivity under great stress and totally at odds with their natural habits.
You know, I'm really glad you started this series admitting that you'd been presumptuous and tried to give them a fair go... Then got really angry at how fucked up the series really is. There's a lot of 'oh people only hate it because it was a series for girls' (and I'm not saying that wasn't part of it), going around. But a lot of people genuinely read and hated the series getting so popular because of the absolute bullshit that was romanticised in these books. Also thanks for taking the time to go through Leah's story. She was my favourite when I was younger and I'm still angry at how she was treated both in story and by the author
To be fair, lot of the public complaints about Twilight were of trivial things or things that are pretty common in teenage romance. Vampires being sparkly doesn't make the books bad. The adoring stalking isn't exactly unusual in teenage romance. And werewolf-human-vampire wasn't exactly rare in supernatural romance.
@@Ruinwyn "The adoring stalking isn't exactly unusual in teenage romance." Maybe, just maybe, THIS SHOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED NORMAL LET ALONE ADORING IN TEENAGE ROMANCE???? HOLY SHIT? Normalising stalking instead of criminalizing it in teenage romance is what should absolutely not be happening and Meyer doesn't get a pass just because "everyone else is doing it anyway".
@@Ruinwyn thats not a very good arguement... i mean Twilight was the most famous so had the most leveled against it. That being in teen books is fucked up
@@aislingyngaio the level of hate directed towards Twilight because "omg Edward is totally stalking" when that has been very much a staple of romance (adult or teen) for long time including plenty of mainstream adult romantic movies was very telling. Hating THIS book series for it just showed that most haters really were just butthurt that their crush was more interested in fictional character than them. If the IDEA of stalkerish behavior had really been the issue they would have called out the adult fiction (books, tv shows and movies) as well. And since Twilight actually contains more harmful ideas as well than just Edward watching Bella sleeping, but that is what lot of people were focused on, showed that most had only vague idea what they were talking about. Basically if there was valid criticism it was drowned in the same hate that has in the past been directed towards Bieber, Nsync, NKOTB and what ever cute boy actor was the big thing at a given time.
I do get where the generic hate towards teenage girl things comes from. Almost all girls have their first intence crush towards a teen idol. When the hormones kick in they need a target, but someone you know is scary, because that might go somewhere, or you could get turned down, and it's just too much and too scary. So they pick someone from TV to practice handling those emotions. Meanwhile boys (who aren't handling their hormones any better) are watching all the girls obsess over someone else and completely ignoring them. Of course they are going to hate that teen idol and everything related to him. And the over exposure is going to drive everyone else not emotionally invested mad.
Now I kind of want a story about a girl who fights her "Destiny" to be a romantic partner for a werewolf who imprinted on her (especially if this girl was a child at time of imprinting)
I want a story where both of them fight it. Can't be fun for the werewolf to suddenly be imprinted on someone with out say or genuine interest and to also have their personality in threat of becoming someone completely new, just to fit being the perfect partner for that person.
@@vixxcelacea2778 I'd like a story like that! I'd also like a story where imprinting is written the way it's like in real life and a werewolf imprints on a human and treats them like their mother or something. OH, HOW A MOTHER-SON BOND GETS ME GOIN!! Edit: OOO or a father-daughter bond. I like the idea of the werewolf becoming completely out of touch with human society and their imprinted parent helps them intergrade themselves so that they don't have to kill others to survive. Maybe the pack they came from is really abusive with the whole "I AM THE ALPHA" crap and it can be an allogory for Foster care. Running away from an abusive home into the arms of a loving parent who is patient and willing to help you grow. It can show that family is not who you're born with but who you choose... eh I mean you can't really choose who you imprint on, though, as a werewolf so maybe the imprinting part isn't completely needed. But I still like the idea of imprinting being less about romance and more about a parental bond :)
She wears a red hoodie, and fights werewolves hell yeah. Ohh I wonder what would happen if a dude bro wolf suddenly imprings on a 40 year old man, throwing the imprinting for best genes for werewolf babies out the window and seeing the whole pack freaking out over the sudden gay
Fanfic. I mean it, that media is so pulpy, there's gotta be a good story about that by sheer number power. If not, maybe try to write it and take the serial number off it? It worked for E. L. James...
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 for real. I want a book about Jasper and the Vampire wars, Jasper in the decades following his escape, rosalie epic avenger story, or a road trip story of Jasper and Rosalie trekking around and dealing with their epic individual CPTSD. Anything but the crap we actually got.
I had my tubes tied after my daughter was born. I was 31 and my body went into a weird early menopause. After we divorced my ex, who insisted I get my tubes tied because he didn't want anymore kids, met someone new and had two kids with her. So, thank you for touching on the Leah topic. I felt that.
OMG 🤦🏻♀️😩 Let's keep it 💯 ... most Men really ain't sh*t. I managed to snag a good man & we've been happily married for 18yrs however... I am the exception, NOT the rule. We have an almost 60% divorce rate at this point, it's gotten so bad, but hey, at least we Women CAN divorce whatever p.o.s. we find ourselves ending up with, so I suppose there's some saving grace in an otherwise very sad statistic. We used to not have that option, or, it used to be considered socially unthinkable at the very least. Sure, maybe you'd strike up the courage to leave your philandering, or abusive, and for sure probably manipulative husband... But you'd end up a social pariah & outcast for your troubles. At least now we can walk away from these toxic circumstances freely, w/our reputations still intact. Nevertheless, that still doesn't lessen the sting of the sort of betrayal you went through w/your own ex here. Something like that cuts DEEPLY, and informs how you handle all future relationships, for the rest of your life. You have my sympathies, but also... my admiration for making it through all of that, still whole on the other side. Kudos.
Well, most of the main characters are animal drinking angst cases and the story isn't from their perspective, so it makes sense the bloodshed was out of frame
Well to be fair Edward did want to commit genocide on the Quileute tribe because Jacob told Bella a story about vampires that he didn't even believe. He also drank the blood of criminals just because he was bitter that his adopted father didn't want humans to be killed. Jasper is only drinking animal blood to please his girlfriend and has to be reminded that humans are people. Emmett likes to torture and kill bears because that's what almost killed him. Rosalie killed her rapists and managed to not drink any of their blood (she doesn't want any of them inside her again). The Denali coven of vampires also "accidentally" killed the men they were having sex with. They could've chosen not to have sex with them, but they didn't, they had a hundred years of practice drinking animal blood before perfecting not murder their lovers. All the Cullen allies, the ones who are supposed to be the good guys, drink human blood without a thought to the fact they people and the Cullens don't care they do so as long as they hunt outside of the hundred mile radius.
Among the many MANY issues I had with this book, all of Jacob's feelings for Bella being totally retconned as being his attraction to the Renesme egg she carried made me the most angry. First and foremost, shouldn't Jacob have been equally as drawn to/in love with Edward cos he had half Renesme's DNA in his balls???? Secondly, Jacob's relationship with Bella was messy and got messed-up, but it was real and human, and I actually cared about his feelings in it and believed he loved her and felt for him. To have all of that emotion and those events finger-snapped away as not real, and to have Stephenie do this by having him IMPRINT ON BELLA'S NEWBORN cos apparently she couldn't bear for him to be unhappy and this was her idea of a happy ending.... 😤😤😤 All that messy realness of unrequited love/deep friendship/Bella even does love him romantically but it's not a match for the terrifying addiction she has to Edward - all gone. So bizarre to undo so much of your own writing and call it a happy ending. Even worse to do it with grooming 🙈🙈🙈
Also implies that ether that baby was fate despite Alice’s visions or whatever having the ability to change. Also, more terrifying, since it never implies that he briefly had the hots for Edward we could assume that it could’ve taken any sperm to be the reason he liked her so much while at the same time he obviously has romantic feelings for her. Gosh I hate this so much
@@JamesonMcLeod Except that Edward is a vampire, so presumably, his sperm is just being held in stasis (as he himself is), bc if it 'died' then he'd no longer have the biological capability of reproducing it. Or, as evidenced by the last video, if his sperm also got replaced with venom like every other fluid in his body, then surely a straight shot of it should have vampirized Bella immediately.....so to keep in the smallest strain of logic, we must assume that his sperm is being held in stasis.
Wait, if he was attracted to the egg, and potentially any sperm would do, wouldnt that mean that if he'd gotten his wish and had sex with Bella, he'd immediately dump her for their newborn baby? Oh god, this whole thing is just making the fridge horror even worse.
I'm definitely going to have to re-read the book to be sure but it never came across to me that ALL of Jacob's feelings for Bella were related to Renesmee - it was specifically the unnatural pull and intensity he felt towards her after she returned from her honeymoon. His feelings of friendship, love, jealousy, bitterness, worry - those are all still his legacy. When Bella was pregnant Jacob's feelings started being unnaturally distorted by the approaching imprinting in a confusing manner. Then, having his old feelings be abandoned as comparatively unimportant at the moment he imprints seemed to make sense to me. It's not unheard of for a single event to massively change someone's feelings even without throwing supernatural instincts in.
I'm someone who enjoys stories that include the soulmate trope. However, I prefer when authors discuss the good and bad elements of a bond that occurs beyond the control of the individuals affected. Age is a weird thing where immortal beings are involved, but creating a situation where a creature of many years discovers a soul bond with a baby / someone of a young age without troubling why this is a weird and creepy situation is what makes the imprinting thing unpleasant to me, someone who likes this trope. Even if this isn't a weird concept to the werewolves, it should be a disturbing situation for the vampires (who have strict rules protecting children) and the humans. The fact that Bella eventually just accepts the imprinting as fine is frustrating. There is so much room for discussion, but it gets swept under the rug of "it's so romantic" by the end.
@@victoriashevlin8587 You might like Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series. She's not unproblematic in her own way, but the whole "lifebond" thing might fit what you are looking for, and is a feature of a lot of the romance plots. Also lots of interesting lgbt+ couples (and the brief mention of at least one lesbian throuple where all members are soulmates).
It'd be great if soulmates didn't have to be romantic. Like, you have a soul bonded, super powerful, big brother for life, who always gets you and will kick anyone's ass if they hurt you.
Hmm. I never eve though of it as a soulmate trope. But I guess that's what the idea of soulmates is, isn't it? That two people, typically straight, are essentially forced together with no account to free will or personality. And it's a life-long destiny, so it's from birth. I've never really liked the soulmate trope, and this is really just highlighting everything I dislike about it...
About the Quill-Claire imprint: do her parents even know about the Wolfpack/imprint? Or is he just a teenage boy constantly babysitting their toddler and they have no idea about anything? If I recall from the books, Claire was Emily’s cousin/niece? And that’s how Quil met her.
I don't think Claire's parents knows. Jacob knew nothing before he became a werewolf. "This teenage boy sure is obsessed with babysitting our kid. Oh well, it's probably fine. Date night!"
I would have loved it a lot of imprinting was a norm towards a kid... but in a very much protector instinct... NOT in the 'wait until they grow up so they can be your girlfriend'. Like a sort of natural protection mindset for the young of the tribe. Like how an Alpha male Gorilla is the protector (especially of the young) since it's an instict to ensure the family will continue surviving.
@@kinagrill that actually sounds really interesting for a story concept, as its kinda an inversion of actual imprinting in nature. Instead of the child imprinting it’s parent, the parent imprints on the child.
@@undercookedtoast1479 Yup, It just needs to be very specific on the format... not that 'oh I will fuck the baby when it grows up cuz we are SOOO in love at that time'
@@kinagrill or, heck, it could be a "powerful as heck protective instinct that happens at random and results in people _assuming_ it automatically leads to romance at some point resulting in absolutely everyone freaking out when it happens here until they (after a book dive as the werewolf and friends try to figure out how to fix this terrible thing) realize it's really just a bodyguard relationship" Heck, they could even keep Bella beating the crap out of Jacob while he either takes it because he feels deeply bad or desperately tries to explain his research in between punches to the face.
When Bella's (potentially) dying wish is to save her baby, who she cared for immensely and who would continue on her legacy, and after tearing the baby out of her before she seemingly dies, Jacob decides to also kill her child because it led to Bella's death... The person who only wanted to know her baby survived when she died... Ok.
Bella was SO ADAMANT about being a mother that it shocked me just how hands-off of a parent she became. She felt more like a babysitter or an older sister in the later half of the book than a mother who literally got ripped to shreds out of love for her child
Because it wasn't about Bella. Jacob (in this book and Eclipse) did not actually care for Bella. It was about having her, owning her basically with her being dead that was impossible so the responsible one had to be punished. Revenge is almost always selfish but in this case it just shows Jacobs intentions
@@darianrose2195 Yeah, people tend to overlook this because of all the imprint stuff, but Jacob was going to murder an innocent baby. For no reason whatsoever. That's so freaking wrong. I get being upset, but geez... that is so over the line.
Imprinting is the most horrific and disturbing interpretation of soulmates that may have ever been put to writing. I'd almost commend Meyer's skill as a horror writer if she didn't consider this romantic and loving
If it was portrayed as the sick, creepy and evil thing it is imprinting would be a great horror concept. The problem is Jacob wanting to have sex with a newborn baby is painted as a completely normal thing instead of the paedophilia it is. The whole "Renesmee rapidly ages and has an adult mind" was just Meyer trying to make it seem like it wasn't paedophilia.
@@Xehanort10 Like, even if it wasn't just flat-out grooming and pedophilia, which it is, there's still the issues with the total lack of consent or even free will werewolves seem to have. All that combined with, like Dom said, the magical eugenics aspect of it only happening because the girl will be the one to give birth to more werewolves. I honestly don't know what's scarier: the idea of a mother letting a full-grown man have constant access to her infant daughter and groom her for her whole life into becoming his mate because his genes gave him no choice in the matter, or that Meyer found it so romantic that it moved her to tears.
@@misterbubbles6389 It doesn't say good things about her that she decided "I'll make Jacob completely obsessed with Renesmee against his will. It'll be so beautiful."
I loved the books. I was a depressed teenager at the time and had no friends so it was a complete escape to a world that was far more interesting and the idea of being unconditionally loved was appealing. Bella was very relatable to me as she was academically smart, clumsy, awkward, felt disconnected from her peers. I was a undiagnosed Autistic girl and they gave me a fantasy world I could escape to in my mind. I did not realise the problematic aspects of Bellas and Edwards relationship until later on. I was very naïve and took Myers explanation of imprinting on its surface and although it was still disturbing I mostly tried to ignore it as a plot point.
This is exactly what my experience with these books was like too, right down to being undiagnosed autistic and using the books as an escape from my daily struggles. I also thought Bella and Edward's relationship was super romantic, and if I'd dated someone back then, I might well have ended up thinking that abusive behaviour was acceptable and even romantic because these books told me that it was. In hindsight, it's honestly kind of terrifying to think about.
@@idab9958 Yup, not just twilight but so many romantic depictions in media had so many toxic and dangerous ideals. Taking them on face value of examples of what to expect in a relationship as a naïve teen definitely left me vulnerable to abuse if I had entered into a relationship at the time. Thank goodness there are so many more people who are analysing popular media tropes and pointing out what is and isn't healthy and realistic. Hopefully its wider accessibility online can really help young people who are growing up now.
When first reading twilight i was a sheltered naive religious girl, i didn't know anything about feminism or western humanistic ideas. I fell in love with jacob because I lived in an abusive household, and no one loved me, and i didn't know anything about romance. I wanted someone to love me unconditionally like jacob. Jacob is still in my heart because he was my first crush. And i wanted someone like him to rescue me.
I guess you describe the demographic that finds Twilight ‘good’; young girls who are so used to being ignored at best and abused at worst thus who will take every chance to escape even to a fantasy. It’s very sad when you think about it. I’ve read Twilight until the third book, solely because I was in my vampire phase and needed something to fill my time to the next Anita Blake book. I was also in the demographic but the religious and the uncomfortably pro-marriage overtones of her work put me off so I never got a crush on a character or wanted to be Bella.
Oh girl do I get you. I didn't have it as bad as you, but I was a deeply depressed teenager who had just cut herself off from literally every other single being on the planet. I spent my time watching TV shows and reading these damn books. There's also the thing where I was being led on by a guy who for 5 years claimed that he loved me without ever being able to tell me I was pretty or compliment any other aspect of myself in any way. Yeah, they're definitely a love fantasy for people who don't know what love is.
I'm so sorry you had to go through a childhood like that. I also read these books in a super religious family and I believed alot of the horrible things that Edward did was romantic. And it lead me, at 16, to be in a horribly abusive relationship. 😞 sometimes I wonder how damaging these books actually were at the time...
I hope you are thriving now ❤ you don't need a man to rescue you, as I'm sure you know now as an adult. You seem like an intelligent person, and capable of giving and receiving love in a healthy way. You will find a partner that respects and loves you as you deserve, if you haven't already!
For a short second I wondered If there where two werewolfs in the book named Blackjack and Hookers, then I remembered the Futurama quote and made a sigh of relief.
To be honest, I liked Leah despite how much the book and the characters wanted to make the reader dislike her. I too remember yearning to become a female werewolf for reasons.
I remember feeling very sorry for Leah and angry on her behalf, imagine trying to deal with a bunch of dudes that refuse to even try to understand you in any way, and one of them is your ex that now holds power over you. She must have been so lonely.
I actually approved of Leah's plan for herself to recover, when it was assumed that after Bella had the baby and the Cullens left the area and Jacob intended to probably go full wolf for awhile. He and Leah agreed that Seth should return to La Push, but Leah planned to quit being a wolf as soon as she mastered self control and could stop phasing. She planned to leave the area to get away from everyone, get a job, go to college and get into meditation and/or yoga to help deal with her anger. That is a very healthy plan mentally and emotionally, to leave a situation that isn't good for her and make plans to better her life. Also, I don't like that after Rosalie revealed her backstory to Bella, Edward continues to treat her in this book as vain and only caring about herself. I feel that the backstories of the supporting characters are some of the best parts of the books, but other than the backstories, the characters are not given depth to match.
Glad I’m not the only one who saw the ocean of missed potential in Leah. Out of all the characters, I’d love to have a spin-off story written about her (albeit not by Meyer). Of the few glimpses we had of her, I was enthralled. Really proves the writing rule of “write your story about the character that has the most growing to do.”
Honestly, a lot of the worst parts of the series could have been avoided if the role of the main werewolf character had instead been filled by Leah. Imagine if, instead of Jacob raging about the fact that Bella won't choose him over Edward, we instead had Leah being genuinely concerned that her friend has been lured into a cult of monsters by this creep of a guy, as well as feeling compelled to uphold the treaty in order to prove herself as a werewolf and no longer be the outsider of the pack (You really get the feeling that Jacob doesn't give a fuck about the treaty. He just sees it as a potential excuse to take out his love-rival.) Imagine if Leah had put Sam in his place and became alpha of her own pack, rather than being relegated to Jacob's second-in-command who is STILL looked down on. Imagine if there was no Imprinting on a baby, and Leah instead just wanted to protect Renesmee after she saw that she was actually just an innocent child and not a blood-thirsty demon-spawn. Imagine if there was a reconciliation between Edward and Leah after a final understanding that this life is something Bella has chosen, not been brainwashed into, rather than a reconciliation between Edward and Jacob because Jacob is Edward's future son-in-law now.
You brought up a good point about the influence the werewolves have on their imprints when they grow up. Like imagine if Claire for example was 8 and mad at somebody, she could literally have her super strong werewolf slave just crush them, imagine how her parents must feel with their daughter having that much power.
I didn't even think of this-- I thought of "Oh, what if they're sadistic Karens when they grow up?", but what a great point. What if they're just eight to ten year olds that get mad at some random kid at the playground or their mom for taking away their ipad? "Sic 'em, Slave Doggy!"
@@rachelranderson and, as far as Dom portrayed it since I will never read these books, the werewolf probably can't refuse at all so he (or she now that Leah... Lear? Leraren? Is a thing) just has to live with the idea that he or she killed a kids
i've read the books, i don't think it's a literal slave situation. they're supposed to be "what the person needs" (which OBVIOUSLY means eventual husband). the way i've understood it, the werewolf could successfully parent a kid he's imprinted on (gross) which includes telling the kid no
@@weemil I get that, but I can't help but think of that part in the book where Jacob's immediate reaction to Reneesme asking if the other vampire's will like her is tell her of course they will, when that wasn't helpful or true (I mean, it ended up being true because babies are apparently irresistible, but you know-- at the time). It felt more Yes Man-y to me than parental...
One of my cats tried to save me from the gory c-section description by sitting on the remote and shutting off the tv-i think you traumatized poor Loki.
@brmbly I'm Swedish and grew up on Norse Mythology. Of course I know. But I'm also an MCU fan and like Loki as a character. And I'm not alone. Thus, me hoping that might be the reason behind the name since that would mean a fellow Loki (Marvel) fan.
Regarding the Imprinting, apparently there is indeed a fanfic about this exact issue where the plot is that the werewolf imprints on a violently sociopathic girl who has absolutely no compunctions about using an obsessed supernatural monster to murder to torture innocent people. So, you know...wow...
Necroposting, but yes, this fanfic does indeed exist, if you can call it one. It's rather more of a spitefic. I forgot the title, but it was written by a woman going by das_mervin, who is niche famous for spending _more than six years_ reviewing the Twilight saga, breaking it down book by book, chapter by chapter and getting progressively more bitter (which she remarks on herself). She noticed _everything,_ probably one of the first people, if not THE first person to point out the flipside of imprinting. She dug into Leah and Rosalie, how mistreated both of them are by the narrative. She pointed out how much Carlisle really sucks (pun unintended) and loads of other things I cannot possibly put in a YT comment. Her reviews are longer than the books themselves. She's freakishly intelligent and perceptive, and I learned so much from her observations. She also made some related posts, like how Twilight fans treat the Quileutes, and how SMeyer herself treats the Quileutes in real life (which is awful on every count, the former partying it up on their land and leaving garbage everywhere, wreaking destruction upon the environment without giving a single damn about the actual Quileute culture, the latter not even paying a dime of her millions to help with the clean-up or even appreciate what her abuse of their culture gave her and took from them). That horror fic is not the only one Mervin wrote, either, she has a couple more (awesome fics of Leah being awesome) and even some for Fifty Shades. She's so much of a genius, in fact, that she managed a spite fic in which she made Ana both IC AND sympathetic. (I remember the title of that one - Lucky Number Thirteen - because I appreciated the play with numerical superstition.) Sooo... yeah. Long story short, that fic is terrifying in all the best ways - I read it a couple times, even though I despise the horror genre - and Mervin is the best.
You know I sort of wanting Jacob to get together with Leah it makes somewhat sense. 1. Both have a history and grudge towards Sam 2. She alongside Seth are the only ones to side with Jacob against the pack 3. Both of them are werewolves so they don't have to worry about hurting or having their significant other dealing with the craziness of werewolf behavior and stuff. Then lastly both deserve to be happy so why not be together
Honestly when I read Breaking Dawn for the first time, I thought that was where it was headed. It would certainly make more sense than imprinting on the baby...
I honestly think it would have solved a lot of the problems Dom points out here. It gives Jacob a happy ending and a new love, which Meyer clearly wanted, but it's with someone close in age to him who has agency and is a complex character in her own right, instead of the baby-imprinting creepiness. (And there's no reason he couldn't just remain friends with Bella without literally becoming part of the family.) It gives Leah's arc somewhere to go, not just in terms of the romance, but also in the two of them leading their own pack where she's finally given the respect she deserves. It's a logical progression, with the two of them becoming friends and bonding over their shared experiences, and eventually moving on from their unrequited loves in a new relationship. AND having Leah find a fulfilling relationship with someone who doesn't care that she can't have kids would give closure to that arc, and show her moving past her self-hatred about being lesser for it. Having the two of them be a couple who know they'll never have kids and are just happy to have each other (and y'know, maybe they'll adopt some someday! It's not all about biological childbearing) would be a necessary counterpoint to all the focus on childbearing at all costs. It would even make for a great contrast between Bella's choice to have a baby no matter the price and Jacob and Leah's happily childless relationship, with the message that both are valid. It wouldn't singlehandedly fix the book, of course (much less the entire series), but with that one change you've already neutralized some of the worst of it.
Okay story time: I read this series when I was in a very dark place when I read the series and Breaking Dawn was by far my favorite. I found the "horror of birth" scene insanely cathartic, given that I had an insanely traumatic C-section with my son. For me reading that section was part of my healing process. And then there was Leah... sweet sweet Leah. The biblical story of Leah is layered in there heavily... essentially the ugly older sister of the perfect Rachel... who was forcably married to Rachel's sweetheart. That's about where the similarities stop though. Cuz it was Rachael who was the infertile one and I can't help but think that Meyers had some sort fantasy about making Leah pay. And Mormons seeing infertile women as less than women? In preaching? No. In practice? Absolutely, especially Utah Mormons. After my C-section I had problems conceiving again. By the time my son was 2 I was being criticized as a bad mom for not providing my son with a sibbling. There are reasons I left the church, no doubt about that.
If its any consolation I'm an only child, born of an only child with an only child myself. We're surrounded by love and happiness and I have and continue to have the most glorious, happy life. I have a son and will only ever have him entirely by choice. Please don't EVER listen to crap that you're a less-than mother because you have sacrificed and suffered enough and you deserve to be happy now. 💕
"He'll share her with him . . ." And that was the moment when I realized it was a bad idea to start eating lunch right before watching this video. And no, Edward, I don't think I trust in your self-righteous suicide.
As someone currently dealing with infertility and undergoing infertility treatments, i heartily second your FU to SM. Even though I am surrounded by supportive people and feminists (and am a life-long feminist myself), when I first experienced infertility I had the horrible, unwarranted thought that there was something wrong with me. I even had the thought that I wasn't worthy of my partner and felt the need to apologize to him for my "shortcomings ". Infertility sucks, and trust me, we don't need another voice telling us that we're somehow lesser or broken. For anyone dealing with infertility, you are worthy, you are whole. ❤
Dom’s whole section on Leah was just... YES. That has been bothering me for decades. I don’t like these books, but Leah stuck with me for all the reasons Dom mentioned and how it felt like it had absolutely no resolution. This was incredibly cathartic to listen to!!
I completely agree with him, when I finished reading Breaking Dawn (I was 18 at the time) I wanted a whole book from Leah's pov. It didn't have to be a romantic book, but just one that explores her more. She was such an amazing character. I get the feeling that Meyer writes interesting backstories for her characters but can't actually write them out into a full story.
"Imprinting" is what happens, when a Mormon housewife has a an incredibly terrible understanding of the Soulmate Mark trope, A/B/O dynamics, and human relationships. Yikes.
@@queencleopatra007 Alpha, beta, omega. It is referring to a type of... romance stories. Personally I won't go near them but they are a thing. It is kind of popular in the gay community and tend to feature male pregnancy.
@@Ikajo It’s commonly used as a pecking order thing in stories, especially werewolf ones. It’s based on a rather outdated idea on wolf pack dynamics that mostly occurs with a bunch of random wolves in captivity. In the wild, wolf packs mostly consist of mum, dad and the kids, the latter of which may leave to find a mate and form their own packs, which is where the whole ‘lone wolf’ thing comes from.
The main conclusion of this book series is that all the wolves were way better until Meyer realized they were way better. Also I thought the back bend scene in the movie was just melodrama, not the baby literally breaking bones.
In the book her spine literally, audibly breaks from the baby kicking. I did know a woman IRL whose unborn son dislocated one of her ribs by kicking her, but (to my knowledge) he was not part-vampire.
A friend of mine told me that she read that Meyer married extremely young and had a difficult pregnancy soon after, so my friend speculated that this part of the book might have been Meyer's way of psychologically dealing with that traumatic experience. I don't know, it's a bit more armchair psychology than I like to go when analyzing literature, but it's an interesting point. Also, I'm a Mormon myself, and I love many aspects of our theology, but am also fully aware of the toxic parts of Mormon culture. Sorry if this is a bit too personal, but I've always wanted to be a parent, but due to my chronic illness, it doesn't look like I'll ever be able to. And that's tough enough to deal with without being part of a culture that makes you feel like a failure for not having the perfect family.
Slightly off topic, but I guess my book nerd mode has been activated: Two Mormon authors that I actually do love a lot are Brandon Sanderson and Shannon Hale. Sanderson writes mostly epic fantasy, Hale middle-grade fantasy with female protagonists, though both have branched out into other genres as well. Neither author is perfect, but they write good, intricate plots with likable characters who deeply care about helping other people. One thing I particularly like about Hale's books is her focus on female friendships. Too often the protagonists in books aimed at girls are portrayed as being too cool to be friends with other girls, who are portrayed as shallow and bitchy, whereas Hale shows all kinds of different girls and women supporting and loving each other. I know Orson Scott Card is also a popular Mormon writer, despite being a homophobic douche, but I've not read much by him. I read the first three books in the Ender's Game series. While I enjoyed the first two all right, the third one was just a slog to get through, making me lose interest in the rest of the series. Characters that I'd liked in the previous books were just really insufferable to me in it. Also, I guess I reached the limit of my empathy when one of the characters expected us to care about a damn bacteria (or virus - can't remember), claiming that it's sentient and thus it would be wrong to wipe it out. Sure, I can empathize with bug and pig creatures, despite being completely different from humans, but a deadly disease that kills people? No, we're done here.
yeah, I was also raised Mormon, and there are definitely some toxic parts - the focus on "preparing for being a good mother" made sure I never even tried to finish Personal Progress, for example, and the official stances on LGBT+ people are iffy at best. Like, how bad it is varies wildly depending on location and the other influences one's parents had, but still... Of course, there are also the cool parts - the afterlife system we were taught is one of my personal favorites, for example. And Brandon Sanderson is excellent.
@@rachelmoody1520 I am suddenly interested in this "afterlife system". What's cool about it? I was raised Catholic, and also have complaints. Like how women are not allowed to read the Bible aloud in church, but it's okay if little boys do. (The whole of Catholic theology can sometimes make one think that God prefers men over women.) What I like right off- that Catholics have heaven and purgatory. Purgatory is where those not quite good enough to go to heaven, but not 'bad enough' for hell, go. On All Souls Day we used to pray for early release/ parole for souls in purgatory, so that they could move on to heaven. I also liked that the Bible gets read aloud in church to the congregation, over a period of three years. It also lets you know that absolutely NO ONE is able to make the 'begats' part of the Bible sound interesting. OMG, bah. I also liked that Catholics have seminary, where they not only learn about the different early languages that the Bible books were written in, but how to read them, and about different translations. It was really great to have nuns who knew about the puns in some of the parables. The nuns would write them out on the board, then explain how it was believed that these words sounded, and we teens really got an idea of how much got 'lost in translation'. We were also told about funny bits- like where Jesus gets mad at the fig tree when it's not the season for figs. There's an edible part of the blossom that he was looking for. A fig bush without these won't have figs later. It's also great to hear about how the culture of the early Israelites, Greeks, and Romans influenced the Bible. I hate how the Vatican let abusive nuns and priests have 'free run', and I really dislike Catholicism's 'thing' about inherited sin. (It's why the children of Tuam deserved their fates. If they didn't suffer, then they could not be 'cleansed' of their parents' sins, and go to heaven. The cruelty and abuse of the nuns was a 'kindness'. ) Anyhow.....
@@bugeyedmonster2 Fellow cradle Catholic here. I moved around a lot all through high school, so I have been a part of several parishes. None ever had an issue with women reading the Bible at mass. A lot of the time most lectors were female. Where was the parish you went to? I was little when the abuse scandals were revealed, but I know there is a historical problem where clergy and religious order members cover for each other and hide stuff like that from the public. It is wrong and should never be tolerated. I think the Church is becoming better at making them accountable and creating safer environments for children, but there is still progress to be made. I thought the concept of Original Sin is shared by all formal Christian denominations. Either way, it should never be used to justify abuse and/or violence on anyone. I don't think Catholic theology ever made women to be less than men, but I definitely agree that its human culture regarding women has changed over time. It influenced what parts of theology have been emphasized and how things got interpreted when. I have thankfully met very few devoted male Catholics who are sexist. I see more of a problem with it among my Protestant family members than my Catholic ones. A lot of them believe women should be subservient and men should subjugate their wives. *Cue dry heaving noises.* Thank you for your perspective. I fully agree with the positives you listed.
@@sarahtaylor4264 I have mostly been based in Dallas TX, but had nuns from "all over". (Even India!) When I was at a Catholic elementary, we women and girls were allowed to do the readings in church. But not anymore now. And some of the Catholic parishes around me also follow that modest dress code stuff for women. Like, when did that become a thing? In my day, teenagers were allowed to wear jeans to church. Way back in Catholic elementary school, I had Irish Catholic nuns. I sure wish I could remember who told us that bit about inherited sin. And I understand about the frustration with other branches/ brands of Christianity. I have been following some of the blogs at Patheos. (Like "No Longer Quivering", "Love, Joy, Feminism", or "Bilgrimage". There's a lot of really toxic Christianity out there. Like Lori Alexander (Transformed Wife) to Michael and Debi Pearl, Steven and Zsuzsanna Anderson... Pat Robertson... And so many of them seem to believe in that "wifely submission" thing.
When discussing the potential Mormon influences on Meyers writing, id say it's worth pointing out that a lot of Mormon doctrine is quite literally Native American fanfiction. It definitely makes sense why she would be so blatant in mischaractetizing a real life tribe, it's literally in her religion.
Leah's character is probably the best part of these books, even if she's only relevant in the last book and gets fucked over in her arc being abruptly cut. So much potential there and so much development. She's easily the most interesting and sympathetic character because of all the shit she's been through. And the part where Jacob actually becomes friends with her and sees that she's not just an angry bitch for the sake of being an angry bitch. I really like her character, it's why I read Twilight fanfiction, because other authors can and have done her justice. I would highly recommend reading a fanfic called Leah's Sunrise by forever without him. It's a really,really good sequel to Breaking Dawn (that thankfully cuts out Jacob imprinting on a baby) and is just such a good read. Jacob and Leah are pairing for this, but Jacob is much more likeable than his book counterparts.
My take on the "I'm not a real woman if I can't have babies" trope is that it should be more about having the option taken from them. I think HIMYM handled it pretty well in the episode where Robin finds out she can't have children - she never wanted children, but having the choice taken away from her was still pretty devastating. I just mean, the subject can be done in a less clumsy, "there is only one valid model of womanhood"-ish way. Also, if Leah is the first EVER female werewolf, how does she know she can't have a baby? If a vampire can conceive a baby, why WOULDN'T a werewolf be able to get pregnant in this stupid world? Please tell me somebody has written a 50 Shades style (i.e., fanfiction with the names changed) book/series about Leah taking down the werewolf patriarchy?
Her periods stopped when she became a werewolf, which is stupid in its own way (Meyer is terrified of the process of aging so she makes all her non-human characters immortal unchanging beings), so it’s pretty safe for her to assume that she can’t get pregnant.
@@demongoose666 There's also the thing about how men were the ones to be werewolves because the transformation requires testosterone, and Leah transformed because she had higher levels of testosterone for a woman, and that just makes her feel even "less of a woman" and furthers her belief that she cannot have kids. And of course she has no support system or anyone to go to, since everyone in the tribe who is a wolf is a male & none of them want to even discuss "women stuff" with Leah.
Don't tempt me with a story idea! ... (Starts thinking about original characters and story inspired by the idea of a group of Werewolves that are mostly male, then the MC turns into a wolf, and just run with this idea. Not bothering with Vampires.... But Wendigos always scary me, yet not sure if it would be a good fit... Better to run with the concept and see what turns up.) But, thing is; I'm as white as a northern MN, American girl with lots of French blood, can get. Even if I have Native Ancestors, my sister is more of a 'Dark One' then I am (She has dark eyes, hair, and tans better then I could). Would I be crucified for writing a Native Girl?
Maybe the reason that Leah potentially couldn't conceive is that a fetus may not survive if Leah changes form while pregnant? I read a werewolf book once where werewolf mothers have to fight to stay in human form for 9 months to make sure they can safely give birth. It makes sense in a physical sense, but it still leaves a bad taste.
a lot of fans feel that jacob and leah could’ve been endgame instead. no imprinting, no completely fucked up age gap, and also gives both of them a satisfying ending.
These books really made me think that it was fine to raise someone you intend to date when you’re older in literature and movies. She normalized the grooming but supernatural thing for me. Yikes.
Keep being on the look out for insidious ideas fed to you by culture. Basically everything is propaganda and it takes consistent work to break free. Looks like you have a great start :)
I think you hit the phenomenon on the head when you describe it as a self-insert fantasy. As a girl from a small town who had never been in a relationship, who had never witnessed healthy relationships, Twilight was a wonderful fantasy for me. At the time, I really wanted a hot guy to be crazy about me. Breaking Dawn was the beginning of the fall in my eyes. On top of being super creepy, I thought the entire plotline with Reneesme was a huge cop out. The whole point of Bella becoming a vampire is she SACRIFICES her human life. Bella doesn't lose anything. She gets a child, she still has Charlie, she still has Jacob, and she gets to live forever with Edward. Absolutely ridiculous.
I was thinking the same thing about Bella not losing anything. She and Edward get to stay young and live forever. Renesmee will grow to a young adult them stop aging and live forever, Jacob imprinted on Renesmee (ew) so will stick around and will stay young forever. It's like damn wtf would of happened if the story continued and Charlie's about to die? I'm convinced Meyer would of turned him into a vampire. Can't have the precious main characters suffer a real tragedy.
Isn't that kindof the general thing with those books, the protagonist getting all the thinks she wants plus all the things she got to pretend she didn't want? Tons of guys fawning over her, a clique of friends she doesn't want but uses anyway, a pretty, rich, immortal family, an obsessive supernatural boyfriend, people having wars over her, a cheesy fairytale marriage she claims she didn't want, a personal shopper/ makeup-assistant who makes sure she's all dolled up and decked out in designer-stuff while claiming she isn't that shallow because it was 'forced' upon her, expensive cars and diamond rings, an immortal life without any of the drawbacks the other characters experienced, a baby which the other female characters are denied (wolf-girl included) that is the perfect grownup from the womb, never screams or talks back, grows up super-fast and will stay a young adult forever without ever going through puberty, her love triangle is resolved while she can still keep her backup-boyfriend under her thumb by him becoming her son in law, plus her own amazing superpower.
Here's my reason for defending imprinting: I just (innocently) assumed that there was going to be nothing sexual about Jacob and Bella's daughter relationship. I've never read the books but I watched the movie when I was little, back then I didn't think that imprinting was so bad because the movies don't explicitly say that 99.9% of the time imprinting = sexual relationship. So when I watched the last movie in the theater I saw Bella get angry and thought "Oh come on, it's not always sexual. Jacob will just be a big brother to her. After all, she's just a baby. He can't be attracted to a baby". Now that I found out that the books go out of their way to equate imprinting with grooming... there's just no reason to defend it. It's gross. Especially because it's in a book aimed at TEENAGERS who might end up thinking that there's nothing wrong with it if they don't know any better!
Meyer tried to handwave it by saying that hybrids are born with 'adult intelligence', meaning that ReNameMe is basically an adult and waiting for her body to age up so her and Jacob can be intimate. To what end I know not, since Meyer also said that hybrids are sterile which puts forth the question why Jacob imprinted on ReNameMe. (It doesn't put forth the question, it was Meyer 'resolving' the love triangle between Bella, Edward and Jacob and the impending battle between the wolves and the Cullens since 'no wolf would ever harm a brother by destroying his imprintee')
@@rebellyanmagic6409 Yeah, her "explanation" that imprinting is based on finding a partner with genetics most likely to result in a werewolf child flies in the face of Leah being rejected (considering her gene pool), as well as Jacob imprinting on ReNameMe (which is the best version of her name I have ever seen hahaha).
@@TennyConductor Yeah, it really makes no sense that the male werewolves are imprinting on human women when they have a FEMALE WEREWOLF in their pack, like wtf? Wouldn't they all be competing to see who can imprint on her and have the right to breed the first fully werewolf offspring with her? It literally makes no sense.
As a woman struggling with infertility, I can't thank you enough for focusing so much on how disgusting her handling of Leah is. It is such an isolating struggle and it should be talked about much more so people like me feel less of an outsider. I dont feel like I'm less of a woman, my husband and I are doing good, our relationship is doing great and we're pursuing new dreams. But I hate how this book might make other women feel.
From different things Meyer has said in interviews she comes off as a little girl in a grown woman's body. Probably lives in a fairytale fantasy world in her own head and thought that the minute she got married and had kids it was happily ever after. That's not how it works. People who love each other are happy in the relationship but no relationship is perfect.
OMFG I FORGOT EDDIE WAS GONNA LET BELLA SWING WITH JACOB IF SHE GOT AN ABORTION 👀💀 THE SAME GUY THAT WANTED TO WAIT TILL MARRIAGE TO BONE HER TO "SAVE" HER SOUL💀 💀
My perspective as someone who really liked twilight as a pre-teen and teen: It was not just the wish-fulfillment aspect - I also liked it in a similar way I liked Harry Potter fanfiction. There are many ideas in twilight, most of which go nowhere, and the wasted potential was part of the allure for me. I liked imagining spin-offs for the other, much more interesting characters, or generally assume my head-canon to be true while reading. Also, in retrospect, I think I very often gave the books the benefit of doubt, or very generously interpreted what was written - and I think many others did too. Most of twilight's major issues and problematic implications are easily overseen if one a) WANTS to oversee them and/or b) is too young/inexperienced to really understand them. I was not bothered by imprinting at the time - seemed very useful, to just *know* you've found the right person, like love at first sight, and even better to know that person your whole life. I remember thinking Bella was overreacting for being mad that Jacob imprinted on his daughter, since she already knew he couldn't help it, and that their relationship would obviously only be platonic until age-appropriate, at which point she was guaranteed a loving husband. Grooming was not a concept for me back then. The scene where Jacob forcibly kisses Bella was actually one I couldn't ignore, but then I just wrote it off as Jacob momentarily being a jerk. Honestly, I was way more disturbed by the name Renesmee.
It's funny how it's easy to overlook a fictional characters bad behavior if you happen to enjoy them. Damon fro Vampire Diaries, even when he stopped being the antagonist, would still murder and rape innocent people... he makes Edward and Jacob seem like saints by comparrison. But viewers still loved him because he was so freaking entertaining of a character. And I suppose that's okay as long as your acceptance of the behavior of these fictional characters doens't bleed into real life.
I grew up Mormon so I can kinda explain why infertility is seen as so terrible by Stephanie Meyer. In the LDS church boys are given the priesthood starting at 12 years old. Women aren't aloud to have the priesthood, to be bishops, or to hold any power in the church unless it's over other women or children. At 12 years old, boys go to Young Men's and girls go to Young Women's. There are activities in these groups. In Young Women's we would learn to crochet, quilt, and see who could make the best pancakes. In Young Men's the boys would go hiking, go camping, and go horseback riding. As a kid I asked why women couldn't be bishops or hold the priesthood. I was told it was because as women we had the power to have babies and that Heavenly Father had created us equal but for different things. This idea was repeated and expanded upon throughout my teenage years in Young Women's. My point is, Mormon girls are taught that God has given women the ability to have babies and men the priesthood. Men are leaders and Woman are nurturers. Both the priesthood and the ability to have babies are treated as very important in the LDS church. We are literally taught that having and raising children is our purpose in life. We are taught that we were created to have babies. Can you see why a woman who was raised in this kind of environment would think of infertility as such a terrible thing?
@@cosmicriptid Don't the Girl Scouts do pretty much the same things as the Boy Scouts? If there is a problem there I highly doubt that it's to the same extent, or even close, as the LDS church. I can't see girls being told that the ability to get pregnant, give birth, and nurture children is what god made them for in Girl Scouts.
@@jessicacharlton7347 Oh no not being lectured about fertility. I meant girl scouts are tought how to sow and bake cookies while boy scouts go camping and learn survival skills and tool/weapon safety.
@@cosmicriptid I didn't know that. I guess I assumed that Girl Scouts was pretty much the same as Boy Scouts. It's really stupid that they aren't learning the same things.
Uh, my girl scout troop actually did the camping and stuff as well as other troops. When it started, I believe that's what it was but it's definitely more "we do same stuff but cuter" xD
I mean... I was a highly traumatized 13-year-old that tried to hide in books, to find some peace. Basically programmed myself to be the perfect target for the abusive relationship I later slipped into. This shaped a horrifying amount of what I thought love and relationships should be like back then.
A year late, but don't blame yourself for falling into an abusive relationship. It is never your fault. You just didn't know. A lack of knowledge is not the reason you get into a bad relationship- it is entirely on your abuser. I hope you're in a healthier space now. Take care of yourself, internet stranger, and know it isn't your fault.
You could look at Lia being a werewolf because she's intersex and maybe has the "male" chromosomes for a werewolf and it's just rare because their tribe has a reallllllly low rate of intersex births (without even going into trans women existing). But no let's just go with "mysteriously infertile so I'm not woman enough" thanks Meyer
I got so angry with this book back in high school because even then I knew I didn't want kids or a functioning uterus. Like, Lia's living the *dream* and it's supposed to be read as an "oh woe is her!" (Didn't know too much about intersex folk at the time, but I can definitely see it that way now.)
The fact they didn’t bring this up as well??? Like being intersex is uncommon but not super rare. (It’s also incredibly stigmatised and Meyer really leans into that). I just assumed Leah would know about it as a rational explanation for why she became a werewolf. Then I reread them and there’s no mention of it at all as a possibility??? They just sort of dance around it?? It’s not ‘I’ve just found out I’m intersex and I don’t know a lot about it and it makes me uncomfortable and I don’t know what to think about my biological sex/gender anymore’ It’s ‘hmm guess I’m not really a woman, I want to have babies, guess there’s no reason for it at all I’m just weird, magic sucks, there’s something wrong with me’
@@halliehurst4847 The rate of people with intersex conditions (both genetic and hormonal) is about equal to the rate of people with ginger hair! Lots of people have no idea they're intersex until they try to have children, or never find out at all. And when was the last time someone in popular media was intersex?
When I first read twilight, the only characters I could relate to in any capacity were Rosalie and Leah as they were both infertile around the time I was discovering I probably am... They were such comfort characters despite their mistreatment and reading the last book and seeing how Rosalie was turned into basically a bodyguard and the antagonistic person protecting Bella/baby (whatever the thing's name is) and how Leah never even got a proper ending, it really crushed me. I was fourteen wrestling with the fact that the thing was my cultural duty and the one thing I thought could connect me back to my traditionalist Indian family wasn't something that was possible and reading that the two characters I had found comfort as they seemed to justify my very existence be tossed aside and barely acknowledged was... well it contributed to a lot of my self-hatred at the time. From the previous books, I wasn't expecting the world and I knew how infertile women are treated in fiction (Natasha Romanova went from my favourite character with her escaping KGB and becoming a hero to just another representation of myself that I couldn't stand to look at for too long) but I had somehow hoped for more in this book. Thank you so much for actually talking about it when addressing Leah's mistreatment, it really validated a lot of old hurts I'd been repressing for a while.
Leah is a character I find really interesting but that's more what I make her into in my head. With every good character Meyer writes ( Rosalie, Alice, Leah ...) it seems to be by accident.
There is another series written by Sherilyn Kenyon that does this type of “sexual imprinting” correctly. First, both parties must be mature, and if I remember correctly the were-hunters reach their sexual puberty slower than humans so everyone is an adult. Second, it all started because of a bunch of asshole gods fucking with people and it turning into a hot mess that kept getting worse. Thirdly, it’s not treated as this entirely always beautiful thing. The were-hunters are often both excited and terrified at the prospect of finding their fated mate. It can be a beautiful partnership and make you the happiest you’ve ever been, but there are examples of pairings where they’re paired with someone they never want to be with and it turns into a nightmare for everyone. Again, asshole gods fucking with people. The mating ritual must be consensual, it’s ultimately up to the female to decide if she will accept the male. But it’s also not an uncontrollable urge: they *can* technically ignore it, but the compulsion to seek them out will always be there and if I remember correctly they (or at least the males) won’t be physically able to have sex with anyone else, and both partners will be unable to reproduce with anyone other than each other (unless one is human or another race, in which case the rules don’t apply to them.) Doesn’t sound fair? No, it’s not; see previous asshole gods. That’s all I can remember off the top of my head. There’s probably details I’m forgetting, but it does make for some good reading.
I mean ‘fated mates’ is a whole supernatural/paranormal romance trope, with varying degrees of ‘good’ depending on the writer. Granted in romance everyone’s an ADULT, which generally makes it more palatable than *gestures wildly at Twilight*.
I can't remember her name, but I know of another author who did it rather well, although in one incident, the, "woah, mate!" Happened between, like, 10 year olds and was completely one-sided, but then there were Romeo-and-Julliet style shenanigans, only with more patricide, and when they see each other again in 500 years, one of the only functional heterosexual enemies-to-lovers romances I've read happens. If you're interested in it, I can find it, but I would reccomend reading the rest of the series first. Be warned, the love interest starts out pretty sexist, but comes around to the philosophy that women can fight after seeing the lead lady kick ass in any situation. The lead lady is unapologetically a hedonist, and I may or may not be in love with her, but..... Oh, and smut warning on the whole series. Wait, how did this turn into a book report? That wasn't the intention. FU-
So here's the thing. I'll talk about my relationship with this book but I assume it applies to a lot of us. I read this as a young teen. I thought the birth scene was metal, I thought Leah was a super interesting character, I thought the imprinting was weird. But I didn't have a level of reading comprehension to think much beyond that so at this point it was just an entertaining book. Looking back I see that the implication and the way the author is treating these things is inherently problematic, but at the time I could just identify the subject without being able to discern author intent because I was so young. That's why I didn't hate the books.
I never read Twilight but... even as a young teen, I could catch stuff like that. I was critical towards J.K. Rowling long before it became mainstream (and boy the hate I got for not singing her praises). I'm not trying to bash you. Just thinking it might have something to do with exposure? My reading was quite advanced early on so I was reading books for an older audience as a young teen. That could have shaped my perception.
@@skittykay As I said, I wasn't trying to bash you. I was simply pondering the difference and why that might be so. My way of reading books are heavily influenced by the fact that I have always been someone who tells stories myself. I'm a writer.
@@Ikajo i know you weren't, and genuinely I'm sure you're better off for it. I just didn't spend a lot of time thinking critically about what I was reading for fun when I was in middle school. And I think a lot of people are in my boat. It wasn't until more advanced literature classes that I realized everything is political.
Honestly I think that’s worse in a way because the books normalize grooming for young teens. (I am in no way blaming you for liking them, I’m blaming the author and publishers.)
My f**king god... the idea that black widow was talking about her infertility as the reason she was a monster on the team instead of, like, that she had to murder innocent people? That implication flew straight over my head, and has now sailed all the way around the world to hit me again square in the jaw.
And then decided to die because she "had nothing to live for/ couldn't accomplish anything". WTF you did a lot of crazy stuff! You were literally like the only girl avenger before Scarlet Witch showed up. And they killed off the only infertile character!
I was monumentally pissed off when I saw that shit in the movie, it looked so out of character, like I’m sorry I forgot women only live to have children! 🤦🏻♀️ I know the marvel cinematic universe is not a masterpiece but this was low af
@@TSDTalks22 Yep. Not the first time he's done creepy shit involving pregnant women. Angel Season 4's crappy Jasmine plot was all because he got pissed at Charisma Carpenter who played Cordelia for getting pregnant. He even asked if she was going to abort it.
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OH FUCK I made a typo in the content warning, the timecode leads you right into the middle of the worst scene!!!! I'm so sorry! The actual timecode is 6:59
f
Mistakes happen, thanks for the notice :)
Dominic laughs in sinister British.
i kinda wish i saw that beforehand, but nvm
Is a little sus you "happen" to make that mistake in the middle of the horror month. Nah, I'm just messing... or am I? :P
"Bella allows Jacob to put a promise ring on Renesmee."
VOMIT VOMIT VOMIT VOMIT
I know, how did I never know about this after so many years of twilight hatred?-
I literally said "What the hell?!" when he said that. That's so creepy and disturbing.
Yeah, but what if I told you it was actually a bracelet? Ehh???
I had forgotten about that but now I think it was more like had repressed that. Considering I don’t remember much of imprinting aside from going “that’s .... weird and bad.” I think I purposefully didn’t think about it for as long as possible. Yeesh
WAIT WHAT !?!?! 😨
"I'm gonna marry that baby". Feeling the cringe. I had completely forgotten how bad this book was.
It's very disturbing that most of the wolves were grooming their partners.
Yeah. That is quite possibly the creepiest scene in all of literature.
At least Lolita makes it clear it's a bad thing.
At least in this, Dom screamed abt it being a bad thing.
I almost slapped an apologist for it once. "oh but he didn't want to marry her as a baby, he wanted to marry her as an adult and she'll be an adult in a few days" doesn't change the fact that he saw a baby and decided 'that's my mate for life' or that becoming an adult quickly doesn't change the fact that Renesme was literally only a few days old when she became 'of mating age'. I didn't even know other members of his pack then. Apparently the 'imprinting on a baby' thing is also very very Morman which shouldn't have surprised me as much as it did but...ew.
"What if the kid's gay." Meyer's a devout mormon, I doubt she's even thought of that
I was beginning to suspect that she's probably homophobic, which is just a shot in the dark after hearing that.
@@tristanhartup4936 there isn't any evidence to say that she is homophobic but there is a lot of evidence pointing to her being very ignorant and heavily sheltered even in her adult yrs about everything in the world.
I think it just unchecks them from the "possible mate" list? So it's not possible to imprint on a gay person
My personal head-canon is that it will make the werewolf spontaneously transform into a woman.
@@shizotypical
But then that brings in the controversial question if being gay is truly genetic and if it can be in theory “cured” via eugenics.
"her body was wrong"
"she wasn't as female as she should be"
OMFG. What is wrong with Meyer to write something like this, and not be a thing said for the bad guys or to be proven wrong? She really thinks like this. This is so disrespectful and inconsiderate to women who can't become pregnant.
And also disrespectful to women who chose not to have children. Not having children doesn't make anyone less female or a "dead end," as Meyer puts it.
She's Mormon. They're a backwards and judgmental bunch.
She is from a religious background where there is a firm belief that it is your duty to have as many children as possible. Its really not all that shocking.
If you believe you have a religious imperative to continue your lineage, failing to do so is a sin.
Do I agree? No. I believe we are heavily overpopulated. But if I believed it was a mortal sin to refuse to have kids...
Because that's literally how Mormons think.
It's the flipside to Breaking Dawn's obsessibe glorification of motherhood. Bella (and Meyer) want to be applauded for reproducing, and other women who can't or won't are presented as lesser and incomplete by contrast.
"I'm gonna MARRY that baby
WHAT THE FU--"
Not gonna lie, that cracked me up for a full minute!
Same
I always find it funny when it cuts away like that.
I hate how part 2 demonizes Leah when she has every reason to be pissed; Bearing in mind her boyfriend/fiancee left her for her cousin because he imprinted on her, said cousin is like her sister and gets mauled by said boyfriend and is gonna marry him, her Dad dies, she becomes the only female werewolf putting her into an existential crisis and her little bro becomes a werewolf and so has to worry about him. Also, the pack mind means she has to hear how exboyfriend is so happy with her cousin.
But because she yells at Bella and that she really hates hearing how Sam is being happy with her cousin when she is a werewolf, she's somehow in the wrong?
This saga is awful but the criticism that i be hearing on the internet were for the complete wrong reasons! And ive been repeat them when i was younger goddamn
THIS. If anyone deserves a spin-off it’s Leah. She is one of the most accidentally interesting character in the series.
@@ikeelufoo77 yes that would be great if myers DIDNT write it this theorical spinoff
@@ikeelufoo77 Do you really trust Meyer to write a native woman as her protagonist.
@@ikeelufoo77 there is a little bit of Leah near the end of book 2, where she plans with Jacob on what she is gonna do; basically it boils down to taking Yoga to help deal with her anger issues, and once she got that under control she would stop being a werewolf for good and then go do Uni and get a job outside of her reservation. Basically so much character development done and handled almost maturely and sensible and it was done by accident!
Another detail with imprinting. How messed up is it that the werewolf will be subconsciously warped to be the perfect partner for a personality that doesn't even exist yet. I know, world's smallest violin for the child-groomer. But just everything in this depiction of "love" is so monstrous.
You realize by the strictest reading they are groomers because they lack intent but your parents do because they do raise you to manipulate you emotionally and possibly financially. I dislike people making light of that word by comparing it to fictional brainwashed werewolves
Technically they aren't groomers because they have no intent to harm or manipulate their victims. The groomers are the parents allowing these supernaturally forced men to spend time with the object of their obsession that they have no control over. Its terrible for the werewolf and the girl.
@@Sims4T I guess. But once you have to put technically and groomers in the same sentence we're in trouble
@@Sims4T Well I mean only Bella. Claire's mother has no idea about werewolves and all that.
I mean, it's really devastatingly sad. Their entire mind gets torn apart and rebuilt just to hopefully get the approval of someone they don't even really know....
Leah: *is a werewolf who forms a loving relationship with Jacob*
Stephenie: GIVE HIM TO THE BABY
The character of Renesmee literally only exists because Jacob couldn't have Bella.
Leah and Jacob would've made so much more sense.
Or hey, if you really have to have it be a person he hasn't met already *points to all the vampire ladies, one of which is related to the other half-vampire*. Come on.
*Points to literally anyone in the series other then the baby* There you go.
I was 100% convinced she was setting up Jacob + Leah as these like scorned lovers who help each other grow then fall in love, but no...she went with grooming....
I think Meyer's aim of making Leah an "anti Bella" unintentionally resulted in a potentially interesting female protagonist of a coming of age supernatural story that was happening in the outskirts of the tragedy we had to read instead.
There are several aspects in both Bella's and Leah's lives that are opposite reflections of one another, and while in Bella's case they lead her to being trapped in the shitty life she has at the end (something Meyer considers good), in Leah's case they lead her to independence (which Meyer sees as solitude). I don't wanna bore everyone here with this, but the main points of comparison, chronologically, are:
1) when Bella finds Edward and becomes tied to him forever, Leah loses Sam and the expected future she was meant to have with him (she dodged a bullet, but Meyer doesn't seem to think so)
2) while Bella gains a father figure with Charlie (who she ends up always dismissing), Leah not only loses her father, she is forced to take his place as the pillar of the family (something that in Meyer world doesn't seem to be desirable for a female character)
3) while Bella is forced to join a coven by wanting to be with Edward and subsequently follow the cult rules of the vampires, Leah actively leaves her pack out of her own free will, to both get away from Sam's sorry ass and protect her little brother
4) while Bella constantly gains what Meyer considers "attractive feminine traits" (such as vampiric beauty and grace), Leah constantly loses them (Meyer makes a point of the Bro Pack treating her as undesirable and see her as an 'other')
5) when Bella becomes pregnant and gets the Meyer fantasy of the 'higher calling of motherhood', Leah is said to be unable to do so, something that, following the imprinting rules from hell as established in theories from the books, could potentially mean that Leah is free from imprinting AT ALL, allowing her to fall in love with whoever she wants or not falling in love at all and maintaining her free will, becoming the one character who isn't compelled to love
6) when Bella becomes a shield to her coven (because of the stupid power she had all along), Leah becomes a potentially rouge weapon, because not only she is described as the fastest wolf in both packs, Meyer's bullshit of the genes thing backfired with Leah because she inherited shape-shifter genes from all three families, something the Bros don't have
So, tldr: as a result of Meyer's bullshit perspective on femininity and her opposing Bella to Leah at every turn, she unintentionally wrote the anti-Twilight potential story in the outskirts of her own narrative.
🙌This comment is gold 🙌 also, looks how bella attracts all the men around her, for better or for worse, Edward, Mike, Jacob, James, Aro, even the hybrid boy at the end. They are fascinated by her. And Leah only gets disgust or indifference. And in both cases is for something they are, nothing they do to deserve it.
Yeah even with other examples like Prometheus and age of Ultron the female who is worried about that is dismayed and told they're inability to reproduce doesn't make them bad, then they go onto prove they're worth by saving the universe from aliens bent on genocide.
However, Leah is useless and treated like a crybaby instead of proving she's still useful
I. need. this. book. now.
Honetly stan Leah.
Leah, I'm so sorry your creator hates you, we'll save you and get you into a good story I promise.
I still believe Leah should have been the one sought after in the pack because if someone, specifically her, hidden werewolf genes were so strong enough to bend the rule of "only guys are werewolves", most stories would be like "hey, this woman is the first of her kind meaning she has the strongest genes ever."
Imprinting wouldn't even be a thing for her because most of the guys would want her as their mate because she's a rarity, and rarity means different the bloodline would be something on a higher plane of existence. Hell, she would use this against the wolf pack that scorned her by getting with a normal human person because she is not making with dudbros who mocked her, and she would rather "waste her genes" with a human.
The fact SM said nah to potential that she accidentally made makes me so upset for Leah. Like come on!
I got your Leah answer.
Leah is there for two reasons: 1. to show how full of rage and miserable someone is if they end up without a soulmate/children.
2. She’s there to show us why we should be happy for Jacob to end up with the half vampire baby...Lest he ends up like Leah.
Leah deserved so much better...
Meyer doesn't get that not all women want kids because she's been brainwashed by Mormonism to believe that women only exist to be wives and mothers.
Leah is such an underutilized character. I would have loved if she and Jacob ran off after the baby was born to heal their wounds. their unexpected friendship is legit my favorite part of the series, probably bc Meyer didnt really intend for it to be so interesting. Leah has the most nuance of every character in this series lmao
@@Xehanort10 Hi, Mormon here. The church does have a strong emphasis on families (and LDS culture has a *lot* of issues) but there are also people like me who don't intend to have any children. "Brainwashed" is a bit harsh.
The only reason Leah was infertile is the same reason why Rosalie (and other female vampires) is infertile: to make Bella more special and Mary Sue as a vampire, because she gets sparkly immortality AND the hellspawn.
Maybe that was the conclusion of her story as meyer intended as a cautionary tale
The bit about not being able to discuss "female" issues is absolutely true. Mama Doctor Jones is a OBGYN TH-camr who dedicates her channel to educating her audience on reproductive health but she's mentioned before that actually referring to certain body parts with their medical definitions can be bad for her monetization. Think about that for a minute. An educator. Doing her best to help her audience make well informed decisions about their health and body. Being punished monetarily for doing so.
That's TH-cam for you. They don't care about good things.
I love MDJ. I recommend her to everyone. If I have kids, I'm going to have the father binge watch her entire channel, like here's your homework. There will be a quiz.
I love Mama doctor jones so much
I watch her videos too! It was nice seeing her video on PCOS and her other videos on many subjects that just aren't talked about. It's crazy how she keeps getting demonetized too. Glad she has sponsors.
She believes that trans women are women though, so I wouldn't want her as my OBGYN.
Will admit, I tend not to judge Emily so much in the Sam-Emily-Leah thing. Because...well. She tried to say no. And he ripped her face off. And their whole community decided that it was her fault for refusing him. (Seriously, fuck Meyer for how she treated the Quileute tribe).
Under the circumstances, I would not be surprised if she just decided that keeping her head down and playing along was her best chance for survival, no matter how 'sorry' Sam claimed to be, since if she said no again and it set off another burst of werewolf-rage...she might not survive it this time.
I'll admit it's been quite a while since I've laid eyes on these books but I don't remember anyone actually saying that Sam's outburst was related to Emily rejecting him? Was Dom inferring here or was that direct from the text?
@@forggettingink I haven't read the book itself but I think I read somewhere the reason Sam scarred Emily was because she compared him to his dad who ran out on the family.
But either way, it's pretty fucked up she still agreed to date him after he had an outburst that scarred her...
To me it sounds like Emily has Stockholm syndrome (though of course Meyer won't recognize or acknowledge that), so I just feel bad for her. The book would have been infinitely more satisfying if Leah and Emily reconciled and told Sam to eff off.
@@forggettingink That was in the guide. He had his hand out, trying to warn her to back away because he was losing control, but she misinterpreted it, got closer and when he phased, the hand turned into a clawed paw and grew outward enough to reach her face. That's how she got those scars.
@@strawberrysoulforever8336 Well, clearly, then it was all Emily's fault. 🤦 Seriously, between the way Meyer's treats Indigenous people and people of color in general not to mention women just disgusts me. You're not a "real woman" if you don't procreate? You have to have a "man" or you'll go around miserable like you have a hole in your chest? Stalking is romantic? The one black vampire we meet gets practically no page time before he's shredded by the wolves. Was she trying to fit All the problematic tropes into 1 series on purpose?
I truly appreciated the "value of a woman being connected to her ability to reproduce" section. As a woman who has never wanted to reproduce, and has had to deal with people expressing very strong opinions about that, it is deeply refreshing. To have that implied lack of value acknowledged for the utter crap it is was truly moving.
LOUDER! FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!
Being a woman who hasnever wanted kids myself, try being that way while SURROUNDED by Mormons. Oh, I _never_ had to search or guess at all to see the Mormon implications in the Twilight series. They're blazing neon right in front of your face.
Also, when a person who was born female that likes children, it's almost immigrating a thing other people comment on.
"oh, you'd be such a good mother"
"You'd be so beautiful as a mother"
"one day you'll make someone a happy dad"
I don't want children, I like children, love children really, but don't give them to me. They will die. I will die. I will maybe even do it all myself, because I know myself better that you, random woman/man
Same. My mother and grandmother keep telling me that I need to consider having babies at some point, to which I then reply by reminding them that I consistently fail at even keeping potted plants alive.
Same. I'm unable to bear children and my husband and I never wanted them (thankfully) But I still get crap about it from both of our parents. Like do I need to grab my medical records or wear a sign that says "OUT OF ORDER" on me for you to get the hint?
Yh for all ppl talk about women's right but when a woman chooses not to be a mother because they just don't want to, they instantly dogpile on you on how can you be a woman? Like what the fuck? you just want me to sleep with a bunch of dudes to get a baby or something? luckily my parents are chill, they just want me to be happy and if I can be happy without birthing kids then that's fine.
I want a gif of “This is terrible for...so many reasons.”
And a beanie!
A Shirt: This is terrible for...
so many reasons.
And on the back: For Starters...
@@v-mouse yes, that would be amazing!
I definately need a timestamp for later.
I want a shirt
You know, the whole imprinting thing never bothered me as a 12 year old kid reading it. I guess because the books were so unsexual and I was very sheltered anyway that it never hit me that Jacob and Quil were basically groomers. As an adult I can now say it is deeply uncomfortable and fucked up, just thought I'd offer my thoughts on how it might not necessarily bother a kid who thought the peak of romance was holding hands and a chaste kiss.
I was 14 when I read it and...yeah, for the mental gymnastics I pulled off to make it not creepy to myself I should be an Olympic champion.
And I was NOT sheltered in termes of sex and sexuality-neither was ever a taboo topic in any sense of the word especially once I entered my teen years.
So 14 year old me doesn't even have the excuse of being sheltered. I mean, I guess the fact that I had to resort to mental gymnastics means that I was always somewhat uncomfortable but....yeah...nope....14 year old me...WHAT THE FRICK?!?
As another 12 year old sheltered kid, I was surrounded by my friends and other girls who thought the idea of imprinting was the most romantic thing ever and how they would defend it so intensely. I doubt many of them still think that way today but it's so gross to think Meyer convinced a generation of minors that grooming was romantic and something to be jealous of. I hesitate to think how much harm that might've caused
I think it's pretty understandable, especially considering how inundated we were as kids with the love at first sight trope from all manner of media. Imprinting isn't too far of a leap from that concept, only it comes prepackaged with ridiculously squicky implications that could have totally been avoided if werewolves didn't imprint on literal children and babies.
@@all_thescience You know... imprinting might be her way of trying to make 'love of first sight' a thing for the wolves....
yh I agree with you, I was sheltered too, so never saw the signs of a groomer at age 12 or 13 when I first started reading it; but now all I can say to myself is What the Fuck 12 yr old me?
I'm kinda sad there wasn't a mention of that weird theory that Jacob was never attracted to Bella but instead to her unborn baby all along, like, he imprinted on her ovaries.
Well, in the book it is mentioned that the bond between Bella and Jakob grew stronger through her pregnancy, and afterwards, while defending his impritation, Jakob even mentioned something like :"Remember how hard it was to be away from you during your pregnancy? It was her (meaning Renesmee), it was always her." So yes, he probably started to imprint on Renesmee while she was still un mothers womb... Gosh, the older I get, the more cringy and horrible all this Bull...t seems...
Was legit in the comments to see if anyone else remembered that part
Haha not only is that strange, but it's not thought out at all. It takes two to tango?? I don't know if anyone else saw that tumblr post that attempted to rationalize it but it basically boiled down to Jacob also getting weirdly into Edward/his balls for like a week before/during the wedding because that's when the sperm half would have been present.
Overall, 1/10 Stephanie Meyer. Try again, preferably without the pedophilia this time :/
Come on, not even Meyer could be THAT ignorant. Each time a couple has sex there are hundreds of sperm meeting an egg randomly generated from the mother's DNA. The chance of the correct sperm finding the correct egg is so absurdly low it would take a literal act of God for the girl Jacob imprints on to be born exactly the way she needs to be for him to imprint.
That’s. That’s not how biology works. Your personality doesn’t exist in any specific egg. You aren’t pre-determined to be yourself. Everyone exists on accident, as in when your parents or what have you created baby you, they had no idea what person would be in the baby. I’m sorry it’s a funny TH-cam comment but that like of thinking is just so ugh
Between Bella's addiction to Edward and actual physical inability to be without him without going mad, and werewolves and their imprintees total lack of agency in "falling in love" with one another, Stephenie seems to have some really worrying ideas of what love is.
She seems to think it's a drug addiction or something.
It's Limerence, a psychological obsession with another person often called infatuation or "Honeymoon love" this is a psychological addiction to another and it's the often believed to be love. Unfortunately this is when most people get married and make long lasting choices that will impact them forever and yes it does fade over time. After Limerence fades is when a person starts to see the other person for who they are rather than the obsession of desire and they sometimes fall apart.
Gotta keep in mind that this is all text book fundamentalist Mormon propaganda
To be fair, as its been like 10 to 15 years. People change their ideas and writing styles during that time. Stephanie Meyer would have been amongst the art scene... So we could have a competent Leah story yet...
No more than E.L. James does
Breaking Dawn: definitive proof that Stephanie Meyer should’ve just become a horror author.
She already is, she's just not self aware enough to realize the terrifying implications of what she writes.
Yes! Just imagine Breaking Dawn meets Rosemary's baby.
Honestly, both in the book and in the film, the birth scene is probably the one i was most invested in... U know, besides the awesome battle at the end that... Never happened in the first place whoopsie my bad
You mean horror movie sequel writer
You know what’s even scarier? The birthing scene is tame compared to what she originally wrote before her editor and publisher forced her to tone it down.
Consider this:
A sequel, set 15 years after the end of this book.
Claire is all grown up. So Quil thinks it’s time for them to mate. And she rejects him.
Enraged, he becomes a werewolf in front of her. She is horrified. The person she grew up seeing as a big brother figure turned out to be a figurative and literal monster. And he won’t leave her alone. He stalks her, refuses to leave her alone, refuses to take no for an answer. She’s afraid for her life.
Then, one day, as he’s following her, he’s attacked by another werewolf. A pack of wolves gather around Claire and try to protect her. The leader, having chased Quil away, approaches her. It turns back into a human, revealing that it’s Leah.
She’s now an alpha female leading her own pack. And they’re going about righting the wrongs of Sam’s pack.
oh my god. this is... really, really dope, and i feel SO HYPED at the prospect???? if anyone writes this... if you write it, or allow someone to write it as fanfiction.... gosh. immediate read
A++ fanfic idea, would read with glee. You could also underscore though Claire and Leah's friendship that the whole "werewolf protecting human" trope is so much more meaningful when it's a conscious choice on both sides.
LOVEEE~ It would show that it was always a choice.
It would be even more tragic to know that Leah's sister-cousin betrayed her like that.
There. You fixed it.
I honestly teared up, and I haven't cared about twilight in over a decade!
I just want to say, I am a woman with a genetic disorder that has made my life a frequent hell. I could get pregnant, but it would almost definitely kill me to try and carry to term. I have been asking my dr's for sterilization, one after another, and been rejected over and over. One even told me I should be abstinent if I was really anxious about the issue. After nearly 15 years of going through one GYN after another, I have finally found one who will work with me to get me the safest and least invasive sterilization procedure available, and I Can't Get It Because COVID!
I went a bit off on a rant there. What I really wanted to say was, society since the beginning of time has glorified women for their ability to procreate. Even very indirectly, we are taught (all of us, not just women), that a woman unable to bear children is less of a woman. When I was first told (about age 10 which is a whole other level of fucked up in a way) that "having children someday would be very dangerous" for me, I cried. I had those terrible thoughts that I was lesser because of this incapacity. For a time, I was determined to try when I found the right person to settle down with. I was about twenty when one of my cousins had a baby, and my grandmother (in the middle of me having a painful episode of benign chest pain) turned to me and said, "I hope some day I'll get to hold your baby." I froze. Pain and anger froze me. I said nothing to her the rest of the day (I was staying with her for a couple of days because holidays).
For the first time in ten years, I relived all those terrible thoughts and feelings like it was the first time all over again. I cried for hours, quietly, having pretended to go to bed early. Then, when I couldn't cry anymore, I got angry. Why the Fuck should I have to risk my life when there are millions of children desperate for foster homes?! No, I decided. Fuck that. Fuck society. Yes, motherhood can be a wonderful and momentous part of a woman's life, but it does not define the life of every woman. I am not going to be a mother, and that's not a crime, and it doesn't make me less, and why the fuck am I putting all this in a youtube comment?
Damnit Dom. I blame you for this. Thank you for an amazing video.
I hope you did finally manage to successfully get your sterilization procedure done and that you're with more positive and supportive people now. Wishing all the strength and good health to you, ma'am🍀🍀
God, I hate how you had to go through all that, and really hope you were able to get your procedure, or that it's at least on schedule!
I just wanted to add, if you did want to be a mother, to nurture and raise a life, there are lot of other ways to do so other than physically giving birth. A mother isn't just someone who give birth to you, it's who loved you and took care of you. I understand it might be hard to even think about considering how traumatic dealing with your situation was. But if you do still wish to be a parent, there are options. Other than things like surrogacy, there are lots of kids in orphanages and foster care that need loving homes. They may not have your genetics, but they would still be your child. And it's one less child that would be growing up without a home and people to truly love them.
I just wanted to put that out there, since I do see people that go through similar situations, but may still feel a calling to be a parent, and parents are still valid parents of their children regardless of if they share any genetics.
In the end, the ability to have children, or how many kids someone does or doesn't have, it makes zero bearings on your womanhood or your value as a woman or as a human. Your value comes from simply being alive, and how you impact the world around you, in big or small ways.
I'm a year late but fuck yes. Women should not be defined by their genitals or organs. I hope one day you are able to heal from the trauma of having that garbage forced onto you, and that you have finally gotten your sterilization. I'm not a woman(trans dude, in fact) but I relate very strongly with your anger and fear. I hated that certain organs and certain genitals determined my entire life's purpose was to bear crotchspawn, it always made me feel immensely ill. I felt like I had no worth or autonomy because of some fuckin eggs in a sack and a uterus. All I was going to be was a baby machine. And that absolutely killed me inside. It always hurts to see women who share similar feelings, but who love being women, go through that same mental torture. Women are far more than the sum of their parts, YOU are far more than the sum of your parts. I'm so, so glad you were able to overcome that womanhood is motherhood bs. I hope you are proud of your ability to overcome it. Take good care of yourself sis, solidarity. ✌
I'm amazed that Meyer insists that women need to have kids while simultaneously showing her absolute and total ignorance of how pregnancy and female physiology work. If ever there were a Mormon stance perfectly stated.
I got a spinal fusion at 14 and was told that carrying to term would be difficult. I think I kind of checked out of the "women in society" game when that happened. What kind of guy would want me when I was already deformed? I've never wanted kids, and when people are like "What are you going to do?" my answer is "Whatever the fuck I feel like."
I've watched my friends go through divorces and become single mothers with manchildren whose default is weaponized incompetence. I don't feel the least bit guilty for not wanting to eat the shit sandwich of free domestic labor, free childcare, and impossible standards involving taking care of someone else's ego. I much prefer weed, horses, dogs, and art.
Solidarity, sister!
Actually, sterilisation is dfficult even if you already have baby's, as was in my case. Long story short - I am a mother of four. First child was natural birth, then a big pause because my marriage was just plain awful, but I was raised to believe I should try to save marriage even if it is bad. after 7 years I finally divorced and after a while married my second husband. My second child was waited and begged for, natural birth, everything was ok. then, after merely a year, I got pregnant again, even so we protected ourselves. I am against killing a pregnancy, so I carried on, even through wery hard times, when I was at the crisis centre being afraid that I will raise my kids alone. eventually, everything settled down, but when it was ttime to give birth, in the last moments something went wrong and I had to have an emergency cesarian section. Luckily, the boy survived, but, after merely a year, while still using condoms every time with my husband, I got pregnant again. My beautifull daughteer was on the way, but, beecause I had a cesarian section just a year before, they recomended me to ask for a planned cesarian section, just to be safe that we both survive. As I decided, that four is enaugh, I also asked to have a sterilisation during the operation, which would be totally free. And still, despite all the circumstances, I had to argue with doctors -first, to have a cesarian section, because it was too dangerous for me to give birth naturally: they wanted to have the least amount of planned cesarian sections as possible, so they cared about their status, not my health. And, because, If I have the sterilisation done together with cesarian section, it will be free, they tried to persuade me to change my mind, maybe if I would want another kid in the future... I got what I wanted, I'm sterile now and love all my children, but Gosh, what a war it was to make someone in those medical facilities to take in mind my decisions and free will above all that bureaucracy..............
wow, going from a “not like other girls, Twilight bad” phase and then watching the Lindsey Ellis video and deciding “maybe Twilight fine” only to watch these videos and find that “TWILIGHT BAD, TWILIGHT VERY BAD”
My biggest issue is that the main critiques of Twilight during the anti-Twilight hay day was basically just "lul sparkly vampire" not "hey this romanticizes and normalizes abuse and pedophilia"
@Maia Gaia Yes, THANK YOU! I wasn’t really a fan of twilight, but it pissed me off (and still does) when other people criticise it because “vampires aren’t sparkly, that’s fairies” or “werewolves shouldn’t transform like that”. Like, those aren’t the real problems, can we focus a bit on everything else that is terrible For just two seconds?
Agreed with all of these
@@maia_gaia I was part of the anti-Twilight crowd during that time lol and it definitely was a big thing that was brought up a lot? The stalking, glorifying of abuse and weird obsessive behaviour, especially the handling of suicide and mental illness/depression in New Moon, romanticising it etc... all those iirc were prime targets for the anti-Twilight groups back then. Pedophilia and even necrophilia (the whole 'cold body with no heartbeat is sexy' thing) were also frequently brought up. I remember writing an opinion piece for a school newsletter (didn't get published lol) about how the Twilight series was dangerous for normalising really horrible ideas and aiming them at a young teen female audience and people just gobbling it up/not paying attention to the real messages in the books.
Although yeah I do believe the most... visible hatred was probably the whole 'sparkly vampires wut lulz' rhetoric but all the above critique definitely existed. Just maybe not many people paid attention to that side of things.
@@averylfong4843 well, you see, that's why I said "main critiques"
What’s also disturbing to me is how Bella’s obsession with Edward extends to her child. Bella literally pictures her unborn baby to essentially a miniature version of Edward, with his name, hair, features, and nothing like her.
I dunno it works like that sometimes. My 7 months old son looks just like his dad. Eyes, hair and even my husband's eye wrinkles.
I basically gave birth to my husband's clone. Lol
And then out pops a girl... whoops.
eh, lots of women want their kid to resemble the father, and coo over shared features.
@@Shadowfate93 I think the intention was that it was weird that is how she fantasized about her child. Also... my girl. So many of my Asian family popped out blonde haired blue eyed aryan babies you would think recessive Gene's were staging a coup! You never know how they are gonna turn out lol!
@@Shadowfate93 please read www.mindsparklearning.com/grieving-the-loss-of-the-ideal-child/ even though your child isn't disabled.
Because seeing kids as a parent's clone usually causes a lot of unnecessary grief for both the child and parent, at 100% the parents fault.
I love how the thumbnail could have been for Breaking Dawn OR an Evil Dead 2 review
Yup
POV: you are a flying eyeball.
Groovy
"it got into my womb and it went bad...so I tore it out with my teeth" -Bruce campell as bella presumably
Thank you for the awesome content sir. I’m in awe and so impressed with the level of detail that goes into your comparisons. I appreciate your passion. Have some tacos and know that I find you extremely pretty. 🌮🌮🌮
I'm so glad Dom spent so much time talking about Leah. He's the only one I've seen give her her due. Her story in the books is the absolute most tragic both in universe and out, and it's compounded for me with the fact that she's really the only POC that we get to know.
for a story that's supposed to have a fairytale happy ending, the twilight universe is just unrelentingly bleak. the individual characters are all doomed given how much they hate each other, the cullen way of life is for sure doomed given how keen on murder everyone except carlisle is, the volturi are probably doomed, and if they are, then all of humanity is doomed... if she'd only chosen to write horror she'd be remembered as a pretty good writer. it's no wonder esme has chosen to just go cheerfully insane, there's really no other possible reaction
@@jupitermelichios392 I feel like if she had gone the straight horror route, she may not have gotten as popular as she did, though. Twilight sticks out in the romance genre because of those horror elements "disguised" - not really, but for argument's sake - as romantic tropes.
All the werewolves are POC, but their depiction is so bad I wish there were just no POC people tbh. 😅 Though I agree Leah is the most interesting character of the story.
@@roising.3221 that's always the predicament, isn't it? Haha gotta love it. Actually gotta hate it lol
Yeah I distinctly remember reading Breaking Dawn at like, 16 or however old I was and re-reading Jacob's part multiple times because I found Leah so compelling. As someone who was assigned female at birth but has been treated like... Well, less than because I find the idea of having kids repugnant, her exploration of the wondering if you really are a whole person just because you can't/won't use your uterus was really relatable to me.
Why is Smeyer so intent on screwing over the women in her books by singularly punishing them in ways the men never are? Male vamps and werewolves retain their fertility, female vamps and werewolves don't, and we see through Rosalie and Leah how this impacts them negatively. Human women get imprinted on by werewolves and are forced to be their mates, risk death or mutilation if they reject them. Human women get with vampires, oops now they have demon babies, cue the most horrific, traumatizing gestation and birth possible that always results in death. I just don't get why a woman would create a fantasy world that punishes females for being female. Is it a Mormon thing or what?
Most likely, though I find navigating Meyer's mind to be a terrifying prospect.
I doubt it. it's probably just a crazy thing. Brandon Sanderson, for example, the other most prolific LDS fantasy author I know gives his female characters equal power and depth to the males.
Probably conservative religious thing in general. Men are the image of God, the original, women are imperfect variation of the ideal. Women are supposed to suffer because of the sin of Eve. And female infertility is just a easy way to explain low population. Immortality and fertility would cause population problem pretty soon.
@@Ruinwyn The LDS church actual dose not believe Eve did anything wrong and there is not punishment associated with her actions. So for this particular example the writer is probably just a crazy lady.
She's devoutly religious. Those types tend to hate women. Just look up "the transformed wife"
The way you get angry like that is so reassuring. It's so easy to get into my head, think I'm just hysterical and it's all in my head, or that no one cares. Watching another person, let alone a man who isn't directly affected by them, care passionately about these issues reminds me that I'm not just crazy and alone. Thank you so much for putting yourself through this for our sake.
Yes, I agree. I'm so happy that he sees through all the bullshit and is calling everything out on it. And I wanted to stand up and start slow clapping when he stood there silent, shrugged his shoulders and said Fuck you Stephanie Meyer lol I feel like people try to be way too nice towards her, even the people that don't like her writing, it's like everyone's afraid to say it and I'm like wtf? No! She does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. She wrote some pretty messed up crap that has had a negative effect on real people's lives and she just gets to sit there counting all her money. UGH
@@angelamartzen7499 His "Fuck you Stephanie Meyer" response to the line saying Leah wasn't as female as she should be because she couldn't have kids was exactly what I was thinking too. Meyer doesn't seem to understand that not all couples have or want kids. Some of them are perfectly happy with it just being them. The whole "You're doomed to a life of loneliness and misery if you don't get married and have kids" belief she has is a really unfortunate implication. There are plenty of both men and women who stay single their whole lives and are perfectly happy. Of course Meyer would probably have a heart attack if she learned that.
@@Xehanort10 It is really just such a deeply ingrained cultural/religious thing in the Utah region, it's hard to understand. Getting married and having children is literally the ultimate goal for women in Mormon culture and beliefs. Like, really. You won't get into the Celestial kingdom if you don't. But don't worry, if you are do die single but worthy of it otherwise, you will be given as a wife in the afterlife and produce... well the best term for it is "spirit babies", for the rest of eternity. I wish I was making that up.
Everyone getting paired off in the books is pretty much par for the course of her culture. But, I'll be frank, imprinting feels a lot more FLDS than I am comfortable with and I wonder if that may have had more to do with it and it wasn't a random idea but another cultural one.
@@G12G4 The more I hear about Mormonism the more I think its founder Joseph Smith I think his name was just wanted a harem.
@@Xehanort10 I don't think that was his original goal as he was a fortune hunter for years and it's not like he didn't spend his youth seeing the rise of many an American cult leader. However, he did decide, during his reign, that yeah, he did also kind of want a harem. Naturally, his wife wasn't keen.
While the other Twilight books are based on teen angst and romantic pining, Breaking Dawn takes a sharp left turn where everything becomes focused on motherhood. Rosalie and Esmee and Leah all suffer because they can't get pregnant, compared to Bella who gets the miracle baby she never knew she always wanted. It's like Stephanie Meyer thinks that motherhood is the point of being a woman, which, intentional or not is a weird message for a teenage vampire romance book. As a woman who knew from an early age that I would never be able to have kids ... I relate to Leah a lot. Her feelings are unpleasant and make her difficult to be around, but it's not her job to be pleasant. For a woman in a terrible situation she is doing a great job. #TeamLeah She deserved a better franchise.
I almost feel compelled to write a fan fiction where Leah becomes her own alpha, breaks away from Sam and Jacob’s pack permanently and starts her own. Maybe her pack could consist of lost werewolves whose packs either died out or rejected them so she could become the mother of several werewolves. Kind of like White Beard from One Piece.
That's what you get when the author of these books is a devout Mormon.
@@tristanhartup4936 you don’t have to be Mormon to carry misogyny in your heart, lol.
@@crazykenna I agree but let's not act like many core mormon beliefs aren't wildly misogynistic
@@criticalthinkingconcubus Please let us know if you write this. I'm not a big Twilight fan, but that sounds like an amazing story.
Speaking as a 51-year-old childfree woman who's been given shit for it for three decades now, thank you for seeing it. It's very validating when someone not only realizes it happens, but also realizes it's awful.
Man... I'm 25 now and still getting the 'oh, just wait 'til you're older!' speeches. I kind of hoped we'd reach 30 and people would stop commenting on it since apparently that's the magic age where women suddenly turn from childfree to baby crazy
@@gokuxsephiroth4505 I hate to be the bearer, but the last time someone told me I "still have time"? I was 45. 🙄
I do look young for my age, but still.
At 25 I was told I was 'no spring chicken' and should 'get on it.' At 35 I was told my 'life would truly start' when I had kids.
Fuck all that shit. My purpose on this earth is not to spawn. I'd get a hysterectomy if I thought it would actually make people back off, but they would just say, 'oh, don't worry, you can adopt.'
@@gokuxsephiroth4505 I'm 35 and my mother loves to remind me that I "still have time to change my mind" and find a man to marry and pop out a bunch of kids.
Expect to hear it for another 15 years.
@@MisBabbles Oh don't forget that doctors won't actually perform a hysterectomy on you until you're around 30 (or so I've heard, it varies from place to place), and even then, they're reluctant to do it because "Well what if your future husband wants kids?"
You pointing out briefly that Leah, and quite a few other side characters are more interesting than the protagonists is precisely why I don't immediately blank out whenever I come across twilight related content.
I'd kill for a whole book on Jasper honestly
I've always thought this. Like even when I read the books when I was younger, I never liked Bella or Edward. The side characters have the best stories! I'd love to hear more of Alice's story (although there's a great fan made film on some of it) and Jasper's story. Leah and Embry from the pack would be kind of interesting to hear more about. Even Emmett was more interesting to me than the others. It's sad when the main characters of the books are the ones I like the least in a book series and it's amazing I ever actually read all of the books.
Honestly though. I was always more invested in the rest of the Cullen's backstories than Bella and Edward's love story.
Same here.
@@thetracybelle that’s why I love the illustrated guide to Twilight so much, Meyers does know how to create really vivid backstories
To be fair to Carlisle; he's what a 200 something year old doctor vampire. When he earned his license the cutting edge of medical technology was leeches and cleaning your bonesaws after every use.
Except that he literally works in a modern-day hospital. He has tons of access to medical books and knowledge being produced every year. I'm fairly sure he's kept up on this field.
@Joseph Douek In Midnight Sun, apparently he does go back to school every few decades or so, but only after Rosalie and Edward have prepared him for it first, so he knows how to "act." I mean.... I guess? At least they don't stay in high school in perpetuity
Eh, I wouldn't really blame "Carlisle" for any of his flaws. Trying to writing a character that has field-specific knowledge that the author doesn't have obviously has challenges. Add to that the need to have the main characters come up with solutions to problems rather than relying on a perfectly knowledgeable side character.... *shrug*
@@ixta
Yeah but that also means Meyer needed to do research, which she could’ve done the year 2008 when this book was released. Their were online articles, she could’ve ask doctors in real life just to know. She has no excuse, she’s just lazy.
Over 300 actually
Now.im imagining a werewolf who imprints on someone a fraction their age and just yells "NOPE! NOPE. I'm not doing this. IM MOVING TO ENGLAND."
I’d go to space
the only logical reaction and I'm sad that Meyer's never considered it.
@@shoopy6646 unfortunately
or commits suicide
Yeet myself into the sun
I now demand a Twilight sequel where Claire and Renesmee are in love, while Jacob and Quill are their platonic best friends, as we were promised.
Wow, that "not as female as she should be" line pissed me off so much. However, your cats are adorable. Thank you for that
My explanation as to why people could find these books enjoyable: Not everyone's alarm bells are calibrated the same. Even if they normally would be sensitive to these warning signs people can and will slip into a different, less guarded mindstate when reading fiction. To quote the Dresden Files:
“Time after time, history demonstrates that when people don't want to believe something, they have enormous skills of ignoring it altogether.”
That is a good point.
i was too young to even have warning bells for most of the horrifying things in this book.
@@Bookdragon11 so true and yet tragic... its the scariest thing in this life
'it's not that deep' So most people won't look at the situations critically while reading them. Each one is just a short segment that doesn't mean much, but a critical reader who is used to reading for meaning will see each line as a whisper of more unexpressed ideals.
That makes a lot of sense
Couldn't she have just had Jacob and Leah end up together? That would tie up both of their romantic loose ends.
I though that's where it was going since Leah joined Jacobs pack and they had the whole brickering but had each others backs thing.
@@flawedfairytales9808 So basically a Guts/ Casca Esque relationship ?
@@eamonndeane587 Yeah
@@flawedfairytales9808 I wish that Berserk was more Mainstream than Twilight.
@@eamonndeane587 At least its saved from American Adaptation hell! could you imagine Hollywood doing Berserk? I fear the day Hollywood turns its eyes toward my favorite anime. Death Note 2017 was bad enough.
The funny thing is, they’re vampires and werewolves. Meyer could have wrote Edward, Bella, and their baby going off somewhere for a while til baby grew up, then they move back or Jacob finally finds them and THATS when he imprints. Same end, could have completely eliminated child imprinting
Not child, INFANT. Considerable difference
In that it's magnitudes WORSE.
Yep, that's what got me. Even if Meyer was insistent on this Jacob/Renesmee thing, literally any other method of execution would be better. Like Jacob left for a worldwide trip, right? Imagine him growing up and maturing a bit on that trip, then returning decades later (when Renesmee is easily into her adult years, like her 30s or 40s with her own experiences behind her) then imprinting, ffs. Or the option you proposed, of the family going elsewhere and coming back. Or hell, leave everything the same but have Jacob imprint later (after choosing to leave the family alone and not interacting much), well into Renesmee's adult years and then have him go through this internal conflict. Sure, I'd still be extremely weirded out by all these options, but every last one of them would have been better than what we were given.
@@zaramikazuki8374 pretty much any option that doesn’t encourage child grooming (or pedophilia at worst) is better yeah. Even if they would all be weird and creepy.
True, though an even better tack would have been Meyer deciding, for her fictional world of her own creation, to just write the magic rules so that werewolves, I don't know, CAN'T imprint on anyone below a certain minority age. Would eliminate the potential for grooming completely.
@@JenamDrag0n 100%
That thumbnail still isn’t as horrifying as the CGI baby in the movie.
And the CGI baby still isn't as horrifying as the puppet baby they were going to use originally...
Would you really want to cover a real baby with fake blood though?
@@brandonlyon730 The Hillywood Show covered a real baby with jelly when they did their Breaking Dawn parody so it wouldn't be so terrible
Creepy CGI vampire baby still looked more real than that baby doll used in "American Sniper".
@Arcana IX they wanted someone that looked exactly like the actress they had already hired to be Renesmee as a kid/tween, and that is really tough. And working with babies is tough, and even tougher if you tell the parent that the baby will basically have a meet-cute with a 25yo as one of their major scenes.
What always made the imprinting worse for me, is that Jakob didn't get the mother, so he got the daughter, like a pity prize. I really got the impression that connection was intentional.
Bojack Horseman did an episode where he almost had sex with the teenage daughter of an ex-girlfriend. That episode really showed what a twisted thing that was and the shame the character would have to live with for the rest of his life.
To Meyer, it was apparently romantic.
Best case scenario is that she haven't really thought her ideas and their implications through. Because if she has...
Yeah, if that scenario - in which Penny wasn't even underage or groomed before their encounter - came across as so horrifying, I can't imagine what reading this imprinting stuff is like.
I didn't even make the Penny connection until now. Wow. That scene turned my guts cold as ice when I watched it and plunged Bojack into such loathsome depths, it should have been portrayed the same way with Jacob. It deserved to be
I always got the feeling that she didn't really know what to do with Jacob, what else his story would be, and this gives him a "happy ending" or future at leas in her eyes, and ties him to the Cullens still, as still being part of the family and a reason for him to stick around even after everything, and when they eventually move again.
There's a deleted scene in breaking dawn where edward reads jacobs mind right after he imprints and edward attacks him. I wish that level of hostility was kept throughout the rest of the franchise
Which begs to question - what thoughts were going through Jacob's head for Edward to lash out as he had?
On second thought - maybe it's better we don't know. (though yes, something like that should have stayed in, as should have Bella's anger over the imprinting, as well. At least then it would have given the impression they both gave a shit about their daughter's well being/safety). It's just alarming how they both readily accepted the imprinting instead of killing Jacob outright. (wolf thing or not - that is a newborn baby and what he'd be doing with Renesmee as he waited for her to reach maturity would be grooming. No sane parent would allow that to happen to their baby).
Edward's only fatherly act throughout the entire series.
I've only seen the extended version of this movie so I didn't realize that scene was originally deleted. That's an odd and interesting choice for the editing...
"Brought to tears by her own writing"
Me: cringes at literally everything I write and constantly has the urge to burn it all.
I've got a nice mix there, myself. Has taken me ages (and a lot of fan feedback) to finally accept that my brain is not an accurate judge of the quality of my writing -- but also, I've had those rare moments when my own writing did drive me to tears (sometimes before I've started to put the words down on paper/screen), and that's always a good time. Of course, for me, it's not romance but angst and feels and whump ^_^
Actually, when Dom asks about the appeal of this book... I haven't read it and don't think I'd like it if I did, but the over-the-top birth scene... well, the details were gross, *but* I've read scenes just as viscerally disturbing (actually, no, *more* viscerally disturbing), and found myself fully engaged in them. So at minimum, I think Whump lovers could enjoy that section. Heck, there's a truly over-the-top Traumatic Birth fic for *Good Omens* that makes the most of its premise, and while I wouldn't recommend it to... nearly anyone, I found it truly engaging, well researched, and something I occasionally get drawn back to for sheer artistry. Whump is a strange beast sometimes.
Brought to tears alright but it is tears of anxiety and self deprecation.
The only context where that is a good thing is if she did it looking at herself in a mirror going "what is wrong with me"
If only she could have those same urges, we wouldn't have to read about a wolf and baby combo
I'm brought to tears by my own writing, but at least I write -albeit nasty- CONSENSUAL stuff
When Breaking Dawn came out, I was so HORRIFIED by the "imprinting on a baby" thing that I asked book fans how they could defend it. They said they found it relaxing, this idea that your perfect soul mate will just see you and instantly fall for you, so you don't have to worry about things like rejection, heart-break, risking dating someone who turns out not to be right for you, etc. Though I noted the people who liked it tended to be sheltered teenagers and the occasional housewife, who didn't think wife-husbandry was THAT big a deal bc they were too young or sheltered to know better.
Funnily enough, I feel like that sort of low-stakes guaranteed love thing is a lot more appealing to me as a single person in her mid-30s than it ever would have appealed to me as a teen with my whole life and potential relationships in front of me. (And even now it doesn't really appeal to me to read about. I don't read to experience comfortable, low-stakes lives.)
While it's true no one really wants to experience heartbreak and uncertainty and failures, those are just some of the tough parts of life that add to your development and character. I mean honestly, how can anyone even be sure that the person who is "perfect" for them is actually perfect for them if they don't even know what type of people are wrong for them? Life is full of trials and tribulations and some of them are actually quite necessary. The people who are so afraid of those things that they would rather a perfect happy existence be handed to them on a silver platter are really just weak people and I feel sorry for them. I used to be one of them. Hell, I even still struggle sometimes, at 34 years old, with the failures of my relationships that I find myself saying Oh why can't I just have someone perfect for me just find me and love me unconditionally forever just so I don't have to deal with this crap. But that is me in my weak moments. When I get out of those weak moments I realize I'm definitely a whole lot stronger of a person than I think I am and I can continue on, even if I go through more heartache. But those people that hope and dream and wish and pray for a fairytale love... that's just sad. I was once dumped by a guy because our relationship didn't make him feel like the movie A Walk to Remember.... it's so ridiculous I can't even bring myself to laugh. This is the real world. You can read/watch your fantasies and enjoy them for entertainment, but you just cannot base your life on it.
Imprinting as a fantasy concept is totally fine. Meyer's problem is that she introduced children and BABIES into this fantasy, and there is absolutely nothing sweet or romantic about that!
So Twilight fans don't want a loving partner. They just want a mindless slave to their every whim who's got no choice but to be completely obsessed with them. As if the fanbase wasn't creepy enough.
This is actually pretty much on the money. Although I am now an ex-mormon, I was raised in the Mormon church and was a teen just entering high school when Breaking Dawn was released. 99% of the pre-teen and teenage girls in my church were massive Twi-Hards. Looking back in a group of roughly 15 girls between the ages of 12 to 18, only one of us was actually disturbed by the imprinting plot. Most of us, myself included, made paper thin excuses that it wasn’t creepy because “they’ll only be in THAT kind of relationship when she’s all grown up and until then he’ll be more like a big brother or protector” etc. etc. And it was entirely because we were extremely sheltered in a very conservative cult and didn’t understand or know better.
The “magical eugenics” theory actually makes Jacob’s imprinting make a lot of sense in universe. Their future children (as gross as it is to imagine) would be 25% vampire as well as werewolf, so probably terrifying monsters.
Human-Dampyr-Werewolf hybrids... Oh jeez,somebody start writing those stories,STAT!
@@sharonspears-mandeville2369 strigori exist
It's actually implied that once halfblood children reach maturity, they become pretty much vampires with a bit of a tan, so idk about Jacob and Nessie having kids... But if there is one takeaway from this video, is that MEYER WILL FIND A WAY FOR THE BABIES
@@sharonspears-mandeville2369 this is probably going to make me look like a bit of an asshole, buut... I just feel compelled to point out that specifying "human" and then saying "dampyr" is teeensyy bit redundant and unnecessary since dhampir ARE by nature half-human/half-vampires(and the "were-" in werewolf _also_ means "human" ..sssooo😅😅). You could actually just say dhampir-wolves; Or else, you should probably say human-vampire-wolves, or maybe partly- vampire-werewolves or something. 😶🙃😅😅🤣Sorryy🙏🙏🙏🙃😅😹😹🤣🤣😶😶🤦♀️🤷♀️😂💜 _I'll see myself out now_ 🙂😅 😂
Honestly this just proves the potential of Twilight as a horror story. So many of its concepts with the right twists can be utterly terrifying on an existential level.
"I'm perfect for her, why wouldn't she love me?" is the most incel thing I've ever heard outside of the counterpoints video essay on the subject.
That's gotta be the best line I've heard in quite a while!
The usual incel thing is "Why's she dating this bad boy instead of a nice guy like me" or "Why's he dating that mean girl instead of a nice girl like me." Because that lot believe they're entitled to sex and relationships, blame the entirety of men or women for their inability to get a girlfriend or boyfriend and lose it when them pretending to be "nice guys" or "nice girls" fails.
@@Xehanort10 Incel is still a perfect description for the imprinters, though - seeing as they feel the female obligated to having a relationship with him after everything he's done to make her happy (and we've seen what happens when a female tries to reject the imprinting. Never bought that 'she was standing too close' excuse to explain away Sam slashing Emily across he face when he morphed while in a fit of rage after she said he didn't want to be with him.
@@madamefluffy4788Do you know what that word means? It means involuntarily celibate. So how does that fit with any of the wolves? It kind of just sounds like you hate men in general. Also you believing something that goes against what happens in the text, doesn't make it true. Meyers wrote exactly what happened in that scene in the Official Illustrated guide which shows it was indeed an accident, and one that Emily caused by following Sam when he was trying to get away before he shifted.
Leah it seems told her cousin (best friend) about Sam's insecurities and emotional damage at being abandoned by his father at a young age. Emily used that damage to hurt Sam to try and make him go back to Leah (Someone he does love, but didn't want to hurt because he could never love her the way he now loved Emily and it wasn't fair to Leah for him to just settle with her on Emily's orders). Saying he was a coward like his father and running away from his responsibilities upset Sam and realizing he couldn't control his emotions and realizing the danger tried to get away from her in the second or so before it happened. Emily thinking Sam was trying to get away from their exchange stepped toward him. He held up his hand to warn her away and shifted after she stepped toward him, which is why his claw got her face and arm because his hand was already in the air.
You making up a headcanon of Sam intentionally slapping her around just because he is a guy is just 100% wrong. About as accurate as saying fire is made of cheese. There are plenty of things to get annoyed with in these books, making them up just makes you seem bias.
Whats funny is, its Jacob saying that no one else. And we no longer hear about it once he imprints. the official guide says that the wolves can see Quills mind and his love and adoration for Claire is 100% platonic, not romantic or expecting romance. Jacob is the one who seems to believe 100% its a breeding thing and even the official guide points out this theory is just that a theory the wolves have and that might not be accurate given Jacob's imprint.
Jacob was also not really a reliable narrator of those theories to Bella and us the readers because of his own biases and resentments. He resented he didn't imprint on Bella and so viewed it all very toxically. Yeah a lot of imprints end up in a romantic relationship. Imprinting was also suppose to be incredibly rare before this pack (12 of 25 or so have imprinted, hardly rare) so what they thought they knew clearly isn't true. Still really stupid to even involve the children thing just make it only adults anyway.
But she could easily do a new series explaining "Oh no those guys got it all wrong its about protecting those people, because their important to them, the tribe, destiny, etc." and its still 100% valid for the wolves to date their imprints in some cases like Sam and Emily, Jared and Kim, Paul and Rachel, etc. And in other cases be the protector, maybe Claire is destined to grow up to be a doctor that saves the tribes or something. We are dealing with Spirit Warriors so the spirits intervening to put a protector on someone who might have some importance or for a bloodline that is gonna be important later.
@@almightykue3914 Do you really think the "official guide" for a series that either has really stupid explanations for the things in it or none at all matters?
So... I was listening to the bit about imprinting and considering that Sam PERMANENTLY SCARRED EMILY when she turned him down, I can't help but think Claire's parents don't actually get a say. There is a very good chance that Quill would kill them for standing between him and his imprint.
Sounds like an obsession suspense thriller waiting to happen
Emily intentionaly made sam angry and he backs away from her because he wil turn into a wolf but she doesnt know that so she gets hurt
"She even lets Jacob put a promise ring on her."
Aaand I threw up super. 🤮
I'm just picturing the baby eating that ring and choking on it to be honest.
I haven't read the books OR seen the movies, but just based on these videos I feel like Leah and Jacob hooking up and being happy ever after could have solved like... two of the most fucked up things about the book in one fell swoop.
But Leah can't have babies and that's the most important thing in the universe not to mention there needed to be a reeeeeaaallly good reason why he would want Bella and I actually 100℅ agree with you
@@norabaker5388 He could have just imprinted on Leah, though? Would have been an interesting "love story" that they were both late bloomers in the whole imprinting thing and didn't do it until they were both adults.
That idea sound good on the outside, but it would be just as bad honestly because then it's basically saying well looks like the rejects have to be together because they're not good enough for anyone else.
Or, rolling with the 'moTherHood iS eVerytHing' mindset, having her adopt, and exercise her maternal urges in an equally relevant way.
Wasted opportunities...
I thought that was where she was going! And then NOPE!!
This might be the last time to ever film something with my hair down. It's way more of a pain in the ass to key.
Where’d you get that shirt it’s amazing
How long was the clean up??? 😂 Wonderful job as usual.
But it's cute 😔
But also damn sexy.
Dominic noble its actually not a bad look
Here's another one of the gigantic missed opportunities of these books:
If Meyer really wanted to make having children such a huge deal for Leah, she could have used real wolf physiology to give an answer to her problem, and it would have worked pretty poetically. In the wild, the alpha wolf pair keeps the females of the pack in a state of agitation to prevent them from ovulating. Leah being under the control of Sam and being in constant emotional torment and rejection could have been the perfect explanation for why she wasn't having her cycle, and added to the liberation she had when being freed from Sam's style of leadership. It would have showed that Sam was the source of not only her romantic heartbreak but also the reason for her feeling incomplete as a woman. It could have been a great triumph for her to finally be free and also work as a metaphor for escaping the reach of an abusive ex-partner.
That would've been so much better, holy hell
Unfortunately for this idea, the whole concept of alpha males and females in wolfpacks has been thoroughly debunked. It was an observation made of wolves in captivity under great stress and totally at odds with their natural habits.
Buddy the “alpha” wolves are the parents. The rest of the pack is their offspring.
True or not for real wolves, this is a neat idea. It's a shame Smeyer never had ideas this meaningful for her books.
Holy crap we were robbed.
You know, I'm really glad you started this series admitting that you'd been presumptuous and tried to give them a fair go... Then got really angry at how fucked up the series really is. There's a lot of 'oh people only hate it because it was a series for girls' (and I'm not saying that wasn't part of it), going around. But a lot of people genuinely read and hated the series getting so popular because of the absolute bullshit that was romanticised in these books.
Also thanks for taking the time to go through Leah's story. She was my favourite when I was younger and I'm still angry at how she was treated both in story and by the author
To be fair, lot of the public complaints about Twilight were of trivial things or things that are pretty common in teenage romance. Vampires being sparkly doesn't make the books bad. The adoring stalking isn't exactly unusual in teenage romance. And werewolf-human-vampire wasn't exactly rare in supernatural romance.
@@Ruinwyn "The adoring stalking isn't exactly unusual in teenage romance." Maybe, just maybe, THIS SHOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED NORMAL LET ALONE ADORING IN TEENAGE ROMANCE???? HOLY SHIT? Normalising stalking instead of criminalizing it in teenage romance is what should absolutely not be happening and Meyer doesn't get a pass just because "everyone else is doing it anyway".
@@Ruinwyn thats not a very good arguement... i mean Twilight was the most famous so had the most leveled against it. That being in teen books is fucked up
@@aislingyngaio the level of hate directed towards Twilight because "omg Edward is totally stalking" when that has been very much a staple of romance (adult or teen) for long time including plenty of mainstream adult romantic movies was very telling. Hating THIS book series for it just showed that most haters really were just butthurt that their crush was more interested in fictional character than them. If the IDEA of stalkerish behavior had really been the issue they would have called out the adult fiction (books, tv shows and movies) as well. And since Twilight actually contains more harmful ideas as well than just Edward watching Bella sleeping, but that is what lot of people were focused on, showed that most had only vague idea what they were talking about. Basically if there was valid criticism it was drowned in the same hate that has in the past been directed towards Bieber, Nsync, NKOTB and what ever cute boy actor was the big thing at a given time.
I do get where the generic hate towards teenage girl things comes from. Almost all girls have their first intence crush towards a teen idol. When the hormones kick in they need a target, but someone you know is scary, because that might go somewhere, or you could get turned down, and it's just too much and too scary. So they pick someone from TV to practice handling those emotions. Meanwhile boys (who aren't handling their hormones any better) are watching all the girls obsess over someone else and completely ignoring them. Of course they are going to hate that teen idol and everything related to him. And the over exposure is going to drive everyone else not emotionally invested mad.
Now I kind of want a story about a girl who fights her "Destiny" to be a romantic partner for a werewolf who imprinted on her (especially if this girl was a child at time of imprinting)
I want a story where both of them fight it. Can't be fun for the werewolf to suddenly be imprinted on someone with out say or genuine interest and to also have their personality in threat of becoming someone completely new, just to fit being the perfect partner for that person.
@@vixxcelacea2778 I'd like a story like that! I'd also like a story where imprinting is written the way it's like in real life and a werewolf imprints on a human and treats them like their mother or something. OH, HOW A MOTHER-SON BOND GETS ME GOIN!!
Edit: OOO or a father-daughter bond. I like the idea of the werewolf becoming completely out of touch with human society and their imprinted parent helps them intergrade themselves so that they don't have to kill others to survive. Maybe the pack they came from is really abusive with the whole "I AM THE ALPHA" crap and it can be an allogory for Foster care. Running away from an abusive home into the arms of a loving parent who is patient and willing to help you grow. It can show that family is not who you're born with but who you choose... eh I mean you can't really choose who you imprint on, though, as a werewolf so maybe the imprinting part isn't completely needed. But I still like the idea of imprinting being less about romance and more about a parental bond :)
She wears a red hoodie, and fights werewolves hell yeah. Ohh I wonder what would happen if a dude bro wolf suddenly imprings on a 40 year old man, throwing the imprinting for best genes for werewolf babies out the window and seeing the whole pack freaking out over the sudden gay
Fanfic. I mean it, that media is so pulpy, there's gotta be a good story about that by sheer number power. If not, maybe try to write it and take the serial number off it? It worked for E. L. James...
This is sort of the plot for the book Blood and Chocolate
Last time I was this early, Jasper was still a Confederate soldier.
The name Jasper reminds me of a much better book
@@thewingedporpoise Twilight could be a much better book if it took place from the perspective of any of the other characters
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 yes but I was thinking about Earthsea
@@wisemankugelmemicus1701 for real. I want a book about Jasper and the Vampire wars, Jasper in the decades following his escape, rosalie epic avenger story, or a road trip story of Jasper and Rosalie trekking around and dealing with their epic individual CPTSD. Anything but the crap we actually got.
@@thewingedporpoise which story?
I had my tubes tied after my daughter was born. I was 31 and my body went into a weird early menopause. After we divorced my ex, who insisted I get my tubes tied because he didn't want anymore kids, met someone new and had two kids with her. So, thank you for touching on the Leah topic. I felt that.
OMG 🤦🏻♀️😩 Let's keep it 💯 ... most Men really ain't sh*t. I managed to snag a good man & we've been happily married for 18yrs however... I am the exception, NOT the rule.
We have an almost 60% divorce rate at this point, it's gotten so bad, but hey, at least we Women CAN divorce whatever p.o.s. we find ourselves ending up with, so I suppose there's some saving grace in an otherwise very sad statistic. We used to not have that option, or, it used to be considered socially unthinkable at the very least. Sure, maybe you'd strike up the courage to leave your philandering, or abusive, and for sure probably manipulative husband...
But you'd end up a social pariah & outcast for your troubles. At least now we can walk away from these toxic circumstances freely, w/our reputations still intact. Nevertheless, that still doesn't lessen the sting of the sort of betrayal you went through w/your own ex here.
Something like that cuts DEEPLY, and informs how you handle all future relationships, for the rest of your life. You have my sympathies, but also... my admiration for making it through all of that, still whole on the other side. Kudos.
Four books about blood draining monsters and only now do we get gore.
Well, most of the main characters are animal drinking angst cases and the story isn't from their perspective, so it makes sense the bloodshed was out of frame
Ah, the wonders of birth! No better time for gore than that, no joke.
Well to be fair Edward did want to commit genocide on the Quileute tribe because Jacob told Bella a story about vampires that he didn't even believe. He also drank the blood of criminals just because he was bitter that his adopted father didn't want humans to be killed.
Jasper is only drinking animal blood to please his girlfriend and has to be reminded that humans are people.
Emmett likes to torture and kill bears because that's what almost killed him.
Rosalie killed her rapists and managed to not drink any of their blood (she doesn't want any of them inside her again).
The Denali coven of vampires also "accidentally" killed the men they were having sex with. They could've chosen not to have sex with them, but they didn't, they had a hundred years of practice drinking animal blood before perfecting not murder their lovers.
All the Cullen allies, the ones who are supposed to be the good guys, drink human blood without a thought to the fact they people and the Cullens don't care they do so as long as they hunt outside of the hundred mile radius.
And it was only reserved for childbirth... the fuck, Meyer?
@@mar6488 if Silver Spoon has taught me anything, that's it 😂
Among the many MANY issues I had with this book, all of Jacob's feelings for Bella being totally retconned as being his attraction to the Renesme egg she carried made me the most angry.
First and foremost, shouldn't Jacob have been equally as drawn to/in love with Edward cos he had half Renesme's DNA in his balls????
Secondly, Jacob's relationship with Bella was messy and got messed-up, but it was real and human, and I actually cared about his feelings in it and believed he loved her and felt for him.
To have all of that emotion and those events finger-snapped away as not real, and to have Stephenie do this by having him IMPRINT ON BELLA'S NEWBORN cos apparently she couldn't bear for him to be unhappy and this was her idea of a happy ending.... 😤😤😤
All that messy realness of unrequited love/deep friendship/Bella even does love him romantically but it's not a match for the terrifying addiction she has to Edward - all gone.
So bizarre to undo so much of your own writing and call it a happy ending. Even worse to do it with grooming 🙈🙈🙈
Also implies that ether that baby was fate despite Alice’s visions or whatever having the ability to change. Also, more terrifying, since it never implies that he briefly had the hots for Edward we could assume that it could’ve taken any sperm to be the reason he liked her so much while at the same time he obviously has romantic feelings for her. Gosh I hate this so much
For number one at least sperm is created every few days then dies
@@JamesonMcLeod Except that Edward is a vampire, so presumably, his sperm is just being held in stasis (as he himself is), bc if it 'died' then he'd no longer have the biological capability of reproducing it. Or, as evidenced by the last video, if his sperm also got replaced with venom like every other fluid in his body, then surely a straight shot of it should have vampirized Bella immediately.....so to keep in the smallest strain of logic, we must assume that his sperm is being held in stasis.
Wait, if he was attracted to the egg, and potentially any sperm would do, wouldnt that mean that if he'd gotten his wish and had sex with Bella, he'd immediately dump her for their newborn baby?
Oh god, this whole thing is just making the fridge horror even worse.
I'm definitely going to have to re-read the book to be sure but it never came across to me that ALL of Jacob's feelings for Bella were related to Renesmee - it was specifically the unnatural pull and intensity he felt towards her after she returned from her honeymoon.
His feelings of friendship, love, jealousy, bitterness, worry - those are all still his legacy. When Bella was pregnant Jacob's feelings started being unnaturally distorted by the approaching imprinting in a confusing manner. Then, having his old feelings be abandoned as comparatively unimportant at the moment he imprints seemed to make sense to me. It's not unheard of for a single event to massively change someone's feelings even without throwing supernatural instincts in.
I'm someone who enjoys stories that include the soulmate trope. However, I prefer when authors discuss the good and bad elements of a bond that occurs beyond the control of the individuals affected. Age is a weird thing where immortal beings are involved, but creating a situation where a creature of many years discovers a soul bond with a baby / someone of a young age without troubling why this is a weird and creepy situation is what makes the imprinting thing unpleasant to me, someone who likes this trope.
Even if this isn't a weird concept to the werewolves, it should be a disturbing situation for the vampires (who have strict rules protecting children) and the humans. The fact that Bella eventually just accepts the imprinting as fine is frustrating. There is so much room for discussion, but it gets swept under the rug of "it's so romantic" by the end.
I too am in the minority who appreciate well written soulmate trope stories. Got any recs?
@@victoriashevlin8587 You might like Mercedes Lackey's Valdemar series. She's not
unproblematic in her own way, but the whole "lifebond" thing might fit what you are looking for, and is a feature of a lot of the romance plots. Also lots of interesting lgbt+ couples (and the brief mention of at least one lesbian throuple where all members are soulmates).
It'd be great if soulmates didn't have to be romantic. Like, you have a soul bonded, super powerful, big brother for life, who always gets you and will kick anyone's ass if they hurt you.
I love soulmate tropes too, but like, everything about this is so, so wrong
Hmm. I never eve though of it as a soulmate trope. But I guess that's what the idea of soulmates is, isn't it? That two people, typically straight, are essentially forced together with no account to free will or personality. And it's a life-long destiny, so it's from birth.
I've never really liked the soulmate trope, and this is really just highlighting everything I dislike about it...
About the Quill-Claire imprint: do her parents even know about the Wolfpack/imprint? Or is he just a teenage boy constantly babysitting their toddler and they have no idea about anything? If I recall from the books, Claire was Emily’s cousin/niece? And that’s how Quil met her.
I don't think Claire's parents knows. Jacob knew nothing before he became a werewolf.
"This teenage boy sure is obsessed with babysitting our kid. Oh well, it's probably fine. Date night!"
I would have loved it a lot of imprinting was a norm towards a kid... but in a very much protector instinct... NOT in the 'wait until they grow up so they can be your girlfriend'.
Like a sort of natural protection mindset for the young of the tribe. Like how an Alpha male Gorilla is the protector (especially of the young) since it's an instict to ensure the family will continue surviving.
@@kinagrill that actually sounds really interesting for a story concept, as its kinda an inversion of actual imprinting in nature. Instead of the child imprinting it’s parent, the parent imprints on the child.
@@undercookedtoast1479 Yup, It just needs to be very specific on the format... not that 'oh I will fuck the baby when it grows up cuz we are SOOO in love at that time'
@@kinagrill or, heck, it could be a "powerful as heck protective instinct that happens at random and results in people _assuming_ it automatically leads to romance at some point resulting in absolutely everyone freaking out when it happens here until they (after a book dive as the werewolf and friends try to figure out how to fix this terrible thing) realize it's really just a bodyguard relationship"
Heck, they could even keep Bella beating the crap out of Jacob while he either takes it because he feels deeply bad or desperately tries to explain his research in between punches to the face.
When Bella's (potentially) dying wish is to save her baby, who she cared for immensely and who would continue on her legacy, and after tearing the baby out of her before she seemingly dies, Jacob decides to also kill her child because it led to Bella's death... The person who only wanted to know her baby survived when she died...
Ok.
Jacob proved to be even more selfish than Bella.
Bella was SO ADAMANT about being a mother that it shocked me just how hands-off of a parent she became. She felt more like a babysitter or an older sister in the later half of the book than a mother who literally got ripped to shreds out of love for her child
Because it wasn't about Bella. Jacob (in this book and Eclipse) did not actually care for Bella. It was about having her, owning her basically with her being dead that was impossible so the responsible one had to be punished. Revenge is almost always selfish but in this case it just shows Jacobs intentions
@@darianrose2195 Yeah, people tend to overlook this because of all the imprint stuff, but Jacob was going to murder an innocent baby. For no reason whatsoever. That's so freaking wrong. I get being upset, but geez... that is so over the line.
Imprinting is the most horrific and disturbing interpretation of soulmates that may have ever been put to writing. I'd almost commend Meyer's skill as a horror writer if she didn't consider this romantic and loving
If it was portrayed as the sick, creepy and evil thing it is imprinting would be a great horror concept. The problem is Jacob wanting to have sex with a newborn baby is painted as a completely normal thing instead of the paedophilia it is. The whole "Renesmee rapidly ages and has an adult mind" was just Meyer trying to make it seem like it wasn't paedophilia.
@@Xehanort10 Like, even if it wasn't just flat-out grooming and pedophilia, which it is, there's still the issues with the total lack of consent or even free will werewolves seem to have. All that combined with, like Dom said, the magical eugenics aspect of it only happening because the girl will be the one to give birth to more werewolves.
I honestly don't know what's scarier: the idea of a mother letting a full-grown man have constant access to her infant daughter and groom her for her whole life into becoming his mate because his genes gave him no choice in the matter, or that Meyer found it so romantic that it moved her to tears.
@@misterbubbles6389 It doesn't say good things about her that she decided "I'll make Jacob completely obsessed with Renesmee against his will. It'll be so beautiful."
That's actually what makes it more horrifying (she thinks it's romantic).
Was imprinting a thing in New Moon? I can't recall
I loved the books. I was a depressed teenager at the time and had no friends so it was a complete escape to a world that was far more interesting and the idea of being unconditionally loved was appealing. Bella was very relatable to me as she was academically smart, clumsy, awkward, felt disconnected from her peers.
I was a undiagnosed Autistic girl and they gave me a fantasy world I could escape to in my mind. I did not realise the problematic aspects of Bellas and Edwards relationship until later on. I was very naïve and took Myers explanation of imprinting on its surface and although it was still disturbing I mostly tried to ignore it as a plot point.
I was also undiagnosed Autistic when I read these in high school! Really identify with your words here
This is exactly what my experience with these books was like too, right down to being undiagnosed autistic and using the books as an escape from my daily struggles. I also thought Bella and Edward's relationship was super romantic, and if I'd dated someone back then, I might well have ended up thinking that abusive behaviour was acceptable and even romantic because these books told me that it was. In hindsight, it's honestly kind of terrifying to think about.
@@idab9958 Yup, not just twilight but so many romantic depictions in media had so many toxic and dangerous ideals. Taking them on face value of examples of what to expect in a relationship as a naïve teen definitely left me vulnerable to abuse if I had entered into a relationship at the time.
Thank goodness there are so many more people who are analysing popular media tropes and pointing out what is and isn't healthy and realistic. Hopefully its wider accessibility online can really help young people who are growing up now.
What I've learned is that Leah's story is more interesting than everything else going on in Twilight.
When first reading twilight i was a sheltered naive religious girl, i didn't know anything about feminism or western humanistic ideas.
I fell in love with jacob because I lived in an abusive household, and no one loved me, and i didn't know anything about romance. I wanted someone to love me unconditionally like jacob.
Jacob is still in my heart because he was my first crush. And i wanted someone like him to rescue me.
I'm sorry that you've had to go through that, and I hope life is treating you better now 💖
I guess you describe the demographic that finds Twilight ‘good’; young girls who are so used to being ignored at best and abused at worst thus who will take every chance to escape even to a fantasy. It’s very sad when you think about it.
I’ve read Twilight until the third book, solely because I was in my vampire phase and needed something to fill my time to the next Anita Blake book. I was also in the demographic but the religious and the uncomfortably pro-marriage overtones of her work put me off so I never got a crush on a character or wanted to be Bella.
Oh girl do I get you. I didn't have it as bad as you, but I was a deeply depressed teenager who had just cut herself off from literally every other single being on the planet. I spent my time watching TV shows and reading these damn books. There's also the thing where I was being led on by a guy who for 5 years claimed that he loved me without ever being able to tell me I was pretty or compliment any other aspect of myself in any way. Yeah, they're definitely a love fantasy for people who don't know what love is.
I'm so sorry you had to go through a childhood like that. I also read these books in a super religious family and I believed alot of the horrible things that Edward did was romantic. And it lead me, at 16, to be in a horribly abusive relationship. 😞 sometimes I wonder how damaging these books actually were at the time...
I hope you are thriving now ❤ you don't need a man to rescue you, as I'm sure you know now as an adult. You seem like an intelligent person, and capable of giving and receiving love in a healthy way. You will find a partner that respects and loves you as you deserve, if you haven't already!
For a short second I wondered If there where two werewolfs in the book named Blackjack and Hookers, then I remembered the Futurama quote and made a sigh of relief.
Would have been funnier if there were though
Unfortunately, that would be way too awesome for this series.
@@regiman222 Agreed!
please explain. I have not seen Futurama
@@ttrev007 th-cam.com/video/e35AQK014tI/w-d-xo.html This scene, there may be more of them
To be honest, I liked Leah despite how much the book and the characters wanted to make the reader dislike her. I too remember yearning to become a female werewolf for reasons.
Same honestly, but that was because of female werewolf being less insane than males ones in most books I read as a kid and I didn't wanna go crazy
Have you watched Bitten?
Carrie Vaughan's Kitty Norville books are for you.
In Meyer's books characters she wants you to hate are probably likeable and the people she wants you to root for are total pricks.
I remember feeling very sorry for Leah and angry on her behalf, imagine trying to deal with a bunch of dudes that refuse to even try to understand you in any way, and one of them is your ex that now holds power over you. She must have been so lonely.
I actually approved of Leah's plan for herself to recover, when it was assumed that after Bella had the baby and the Cullens left the area and Jacob intended to probably go full wolf for awhile. He and Leah agreed that Seth should return to La Push, but Leah planned to quit being a wolf as soon as she mastered self control and could stop phasing. She planned to leave the area to get away from everyone, get a job, go to college and get into meditation and/or yoga to help deal with her anger. That is a very healthy plan mentally and emotionally, to leave a situation that isn't good for her and make plans to better her life.
Also, I don't like that after Rosalie revealed her backstory to Bella, Edward continues to treat her in this book as vain and only caring about herself. I feel that the backstories of the supporting characters are some of the best parts of the books, but other than the backstories, the characters are not given depth to match.
Edward’s a mind-reader, and also older than Rosalie. He already knew her backstory, he’s just an asshole.
Glad I’m not the only one who saw the ocean of missed potential in Leah. Out of all the characters, I’d love to have a spin-off story written about her (albeit not by Meyer). Of the few glimpses we had of her, I was enthralled. Really proves the writing rule of “write your story about the character that has the most growing to do.”
Honestly, a lot of the worst parts of the series could have been avoided if the role of the main werewolf character had instead been filled by Leah. Imagine if, instead of Jacob raging about the fact that Bella won't choose him over Edward, we instead had Leah being genuinely concerned that her friend has been lured into a cult of monsters by this creep of a guy, as well as feeling compelled to uphold the treaty in order to prove herself as a werewolf and no longer be the outsider of the pack (You really get the feeling that Jacob doesn't give a fuck about the treaty. He just sees it as a potential excuse to take out his love-rival.) Imagine if Leah had put Sam in his place and became alpha of her own pack, rather than being relegated to Jacob's second-in-command who is STILL looked down on. Imagine if there was no Imprinting on a baby, and Leah instead just wanted to protect Renesmee after she saw that she was actually just an innocent child and not a blood-thirsty demon-spawn. Imagine if there was a reconciliation between Edward and Leah after a final understanding that this life is something Bella has chosen, not been brainwashed into, rather than a reconciliation between Edward and Jacob because Jacob is Edward's future son-in-law now.
Her, Alice, Rose, Jane.... Why does Meyer treat us so poorly?
You brought up a good point about the influence the werewolves have on their imprints when they grow up.
Like imagine if Claire for example was 8 and mad at somebody, she could literally have her super strong werewolf slave just crush them, imagine how her parents must feel with their daughter having that much power.
I didn't even think of this-- I thought of "Oh, what if they're sadistic Karens when they grow up?", but what a great point. What if they're just eight to ten year olds that get mad at some random kid at the playground or their mom for taking away their ipad? "Sic 'em, Slave Doggy!"
@@rachelranderson and, as far as Dom portrayed it since I will never read these books, the werewolf probably can't refuse at all so he (or she now that Leah... Lear? Leraren? Is a thing) just has to live with the idea that he or she killed a kids
i've read the books, i don't think it's a literal slave situation. they're supposed to be "what the person needs" (which OBVIOUSLY means eventual husband). the way i've understood it, the werewolf could successfully parent a kid he's imprinted on (gross) which includes telling the kid no
@@weemil I think Meyer listened to the song "Father Figure" one too many times, lol :-P
@@weemil I get that, but I can't help but think of that part in the book where Jacob's immediate reaction to Reneesme asking if the other vampire's will like her is tell her of course they will, when that wasn't helpful or true (I mean, it ended up being true because babies are apparently irresistible, but you know-- at the time). It felt more Yes Man-y to me than parental...
One of my cats tried to save me from the gory c-section description by sitting on the remote and shutting off the tv-i think you traumatized poor Loki.
My cats named locki (Lo-ki) too
@brmbly Chaotic certainly, but in DnD terms he's chaotic neutral at worst. Saving me from that description can hardly be called malice
Please tell me you named him after the Marvel character 🤩 it is my favourite Marvel character
@brmbly I'm Swedish and grew up on Norse Mythology. Of course I know. But I'm also an MCU fan and like Loki as a character. And I'm not alone. Thus, me hoping that might be the reason behind the name since that would mean a fellow Loki (Marvel) fan.
He was burdened with the glorious purpose of saving your sanity.
Regarding the Imprinting, apparently there is indeed a fanfic about this exact issue where the plot is that the werewolf imprints on a violently sociopathic girl who has absolutely no compunctions about using an obsessed supernatural monster to murder to torture innocent people. So, you know...wow...
Necroposting, but yes, this fanfic does indeed exist, if you can call it one. It's rather more of a spitefic. I forgot the title, but it was written by a woman going by das_mervin, who is niche famous for spending _more than six years_ reviewing the Twilight saga, breaking it down book by book, chapter by chapter and getting progressively more bitter (which she remarks on herself). She noticed _everything,_ probably one of the first people, if not THE first person to point out the flipside of imprinting. She dug into Leah and Rosalie, how mistreated both of them are by the narrative. She pointed out how much Carlisle really sucks (pun unintended) and loads of other things I cannot possibly put in a YT comment. Her reviews are longer than the books themselves. She's freakishly intelligent and perceptive, and I learned so much from her observations. She also made some related posts, like how Twilight fans treat the Quileutes, and how SMeyer herself treats the Quileutes in real life (which is awful on every count, the former partying it up on their land and leaving garbage everywhere, wreaking destruction upon the environment without giving a single damn about the actual Quileute culture, the latter not even paying a dime of her millions to help with the clean-up or even appreciate what her abuse of their culture gave her and took from them). That horror fic is not the only one Mervin wrote, either, she has a couple more (awesome fics of Leah being awesome) and even some for Fifty Shades. She's so much of a genius, in fact, that she managed a spite fic in which she made Ana both IC AND sympathetic. (I remember the title of that one - Lucky Number Thirteen - because I appreciated the play with numerical superstition.)
Sooo... yeah. Long story short, that fic is terrifying in all the best ways - I read it a couple times, even though I despise the horror genre - and Mervin is the best.
You know I sort of wanting Jacob to get together with Leah it makes somewhat sense.
1. Both have a history and grudge towards Sam
2. She alongside Seth are the only ones to side with Jacob against the pack
3. Both of them are werewolves so they don't have to worry about hurting or having their significant other dealing with the craziness of werewolf behavior and stuff.
Then lastly both deserve to be happy so why not be together
There's alot of fanfiction with that couple
Aren't they all somehow related?
Honestly when I read Breaking Dawn for the first time, I thought that was where it was headed. It would certainly make more sense than imprinting on the baby...
Agreed. I wanted Leah to be happy. She deserved better.
I honestly think it would have solved a lot of the problems Dom points out here. It gives Jacob a happy ending and a new love, which Meyer clearly wanted, but it's with someone close in age to him who has agency and is a complex character in her own right, instead of the baby-imprinting creepiness. (And there's no reason he couldn't just remain friends with Bella without literally becoming part of the family.) It gives Leah's arc somewhere to go, not just in terms of the romance, but also in the two of them leading their own pack where she's finally given the respect she deserves. It's a logical progression, with the two of them becoming friends and bonding over their shared experiences, and eventually moving on from their unrequited loves in a new relationship.
AND having Leah find a fulfilling relationship with someone who doesn't care that she can't have kids would give closure to that arc, and show her moving past her self-hatred about being lesser for it. Having the two of them be a couple who know they'll never have kids and are just happy to have each other (and y'know, maybe they'll adopt some someday! It's not all about biological childbearing) would be a necessary counterpoint to all the focus on childbearing at all costs. It would even make for a great contrast between Bella's choice to have a baby no matter the price and Jacob and Leah's happily childless relationship, with the message that both are valid.
It wouldn't singlehandedly fix the book, of course (much less the entire series), but with that one change you've already neutralized some of the worst of it.
Okay story time:
I read this series when I was in a very dark place when I read the series and Breaking Dawn was by far my favorite. I found the "horror of birth" scene insanely cathartic, given that I had an insanely traumatic C-section with my son. For me reading that section was part of my healing process.
And then there was Leah... sweet sweet Leah. The biblical story of Leah is layered in there heavily... essentially the ugly older sister of the perfect Rachel... who was forcably married to Rachel's sweetheart. That's about where the similarities stop though. Cuz it was Rachael who was the infertile one and I can't help but think that Meyers had some sort fantasy about making Leah pay.
And Mormons seeing infertile women as less than women? In preaching? No. In practice? Absolutely, especially Utah Mormons. After my C-section I had problems conceiving again. By the time my son was 2 I was being criticized as a bad mom for not providing my son with a sibbling. There are reasons I left the church, no doubt about that.
If its any consolation I'm an only child, born of an only child with an only child myself. We're surrounded by love and happiness and I have and continue to have the most glorious, happy life. I have a son and will only ever have him entirely by choice. Please don't EVER listen to crap that you're a less-than mother because you have sacrificed and suffered enough and you deserve to be happy now. 💕
@@jhart1127 ... thank you.
"He'll share her with him . . ."
And that was the moment when I realized it was a bad idea to start eating lunch right before watching this video.
And no, Edward, I don't think I trust in your self-righteous suicide.
Yeah the whole "If you convince Bella to abort the baby I'll force her into a threesome with us Jacob" thing was sick.
This the moment I take back my apology to Stephenie Meyer
I cry when angels deserve to die
As someone currently dealing with infertility and undergoing infertility treatments, i heartily second your FU to SM. Even though I am surrounded by supportive people and feminists (and am a life-long feminist myself), when I first experienced infertility I had the horrible, unwarranted thought that there was something wrong with me. I even had the thought that I wasn't worthy of my partner and felt the need to apologize to him for my "shortcomings ". Infertility sucks, and trust me, we don't need another voice telling us that we're somehow lesser or broken. For anyone dealing with infertility, you are worthy, you are whole. ❤
Dom’s whole section on Leah was just... YES. That has been bothering me for decades. I don’t like these books, but Leah stuck with me for all the reasons Dom mentioned and how it felt like it had absolutely no resolution. This was incredibly cathartic to listen to!!
I completely agree with him, when I finished reading Breaking Dawn (I was 18 at the time) I wanted a whole book from Leah's pov. It didn't have to be a romantic book, but just one that explores her more. She was such an amazing character. I get the feeling that Meyer writes interesting backstories for her characters but can't actually write them out into a full story.
I have to insist. We need all the clips together so we can "watch" the movies. Those are hilarious man.
OMG yes. That would be awesome
Thirded! We need it!
Yeeeessss
Always laugh my ass off, his clips are better than the movies themselves
Those recaps are how I've gotten other people to watch this channel! I would LOVE this!!
"cat break". Good Lord, the incredibly attractive man talking books & movies and making funny skits stops to cuddle cats, I am just melted. ❤️
You could even hear the first kitty purring!!! I Love it
Fun fact: this won a "children's book of the year" award.
DISGUSTING
There goes my faith in humanity
...Wait? What? *WTF?????????*
That’s a fact but it’s not fun
WTF? *project vomiting*
"Imprinting" is what happens, when a Mormon housewife has a an incredibly terrible understanding of the Soulmate Mark trope, A/B/O dynamics, and human relationships. Yikes.
What is A/B/O dynamics?
@@queencleopatra007 You're better off not knowing, believe me.
@@queencleopatra007 Alpha, beta, omega. It is referring to a type of... romance stories. Personally I won't go near them but they are a thing. It is kind of popular in the gay community and tend to feature male pregnancy.
@@Ikajo It’s commonly used as a pecking order thing in stories, especially werewolf ones. It’s based on a rather outdated idea on wolf pack dynamics that mostly occurs with a bunch of random wolves in captivity. In the wild, wolf packs mostly consist of mum, dad and the kids, the latter of which may leave to find a mate and form their own packs, which is where the whole ‘lone wolf’ thing comes from.
@@tompotter8703 Yeah, I know the basics. Doesn't mean I have to like it.
The main conclusion of this book series is that all the wolves were way better until Meyer realized they were way better.
Also I thought the back bend scene in the movie was just melodrama, not the baby literally breaking bones.
Haha the movies toned the pregnancy scene down.
In the book her spine literally, audibly breaks from the baby kicking.
I did know a woman IRL whose unborn son dislocated one of her ribs by kicking her, but (to my knowledge) he was not part-vampire.
A friend of mine told me that she read that Meyer married extremely young and had a difficult pregnancy soon after, so my friend speculated that this part of the book might have been Meyer's way of psychologically dealing with that traumatic experience. I don't know, it's a bit more armchair psychology than I like to go when analyzing literature, but it's an interesting point.
Also, I'm a Mormon myself, and I love many aspects of our theology, but am also fully aware of the toxic parts of Mormon culture. Sorry if this is a bit too personal, but I've always wanted to be a parent, but due to my chronic illness, it doesn't look like I'll ever be able to. And that's tough enough to deal with without being part of a culture that makes you feel like a failure for not having the perfect family.
Slightly off topic, but I guess my book nerd mode has been activated: Two Mormon authors that I actually do love a lot are Brandon Sanderson and Shannon Hale. Sanderson writes mostly epic fantasy, Hale middle-grade fantasy with female protagonists, though both have branched out into other genres as well. Neither author is perfect, but they write good, intricate plots with likable characters who deeply care about helping other people. One thing I particularly like about Hale's books is her focus on female friendships. Too often the protagonists in books aimed at girls are portrayed as being too cool to be friends with other girls, who are portrayed as shallow and bitchy, whereas Hale shows all kinds of different girls and women supporting and loving each other.
I know Orson Scott Card is also a popular Mormon writer, despite being a homophobic douche, but I've not read much by him. I read the first three books in the Ender's Game series. While I enjoyed the first two all right, the third one was just a slog to get through, making me lose interest in the rest of the series. Characters that I'd liked in the previous books were just really insufferable to me in it. Also, I guess I reached the limit of my empathy when one of the characters expected us to care about a damn bacteria (or virus - can't remember), claiming that it's sentient and thus it would be wrong to wipe it out. Sure, I can empathize with bug and pig creatures, despite being completely different from humans, but a deadly disease that kills people? No, we're done here.
yeah, I was also raised Mormon, and there are definitely some toxic parts - the focus on "preparing for being a good mother" made sure I never even tried to finish Personal Progress, for example, and the official stances on LGBT+ people are iffy at best.
Like, how bad it is varies wildly depending on location and the other influences one's parents had, but still...
Of course, there are also the cool parts - the afterlife system we were taught is one of my personal favorites, for example.
And Brandon Sanderson is excellent.
@@rachelmoody1520 I am suddenly interested in this "afterlife system". What's cool about it?
I was raised Catholic, and also have complaints. Like how women are not allowed to read the Bible aloud in church, but it's okay if little boys do. (The whole of Catholic theology can sometimes make one think that God prefers men over women.)
What I like right off- that Catholics have heaven and purgatory. Purgatory is where those not quite good enough to go to heaven, but not 'bad enough' for hell, go. On All Souls Day we used to pray for early release/ parole for souls in purgatory, so that they could move on to heaven.
I also liked that the Bible gets read aloud in church to the congregation, over a period of three years. It also lets you know that absolutely NO ONE is able to make the 'begats' part of the Bible sound interesting. OMG, bah.
I also liked that Catholics have seminary, where they not only learn about the different early languages that the Bible books were written in, but how to read them, and about different translations. It was really great to have nuns who knew about the puns in some of the parables. The nuns would write them out on the board, then explain how it was believed that these words sounded, and we teens really got an idea of how much got 'lost in translation'.
We were also told about funny bits- like where Jesus gets mad at the fig tree when it's not the season for figs. There's an edible part of the blossom that he was looking for. A fig bush without these won't have figs later.
It's also great to hear about how the culture of the early Israelites, Greeks, and Romans influenced the Bible.
I hate how the Vatican let abusive nuns and priests have 'free run', and I really dislike Catholicism's 'thing' about inherited sin. (It's why the children of Tuam deserved their fates. If they didn't suffer, then they could not be 'cleansed' of their parents' sins, and go to heaven. The cruelty and abuse of the nuns was a 'kindness'. )
Anyhow.....
@@bugeyedmonster2 Fellow cradle Catholic here. I moved around a lot all through high school, so I have been a part of several parishes. None ever had an issue with women reading the Bible at mass. A lot of the time most lectors were female. Where was the parish you went to? I was little when the abuse scandals were revealed, but I know there is a historical problem where clergy and religious order members cover for each other and hide stuff like that from the public. It is wrong and should never be tolerated. I think the Church is becoming better at making them accountable and creating safer environments for children, but there is still progress to be made. I thought the concept of Original Sin is shared by all formal Christian denominations. Either way, it should never be used to justify abuse and/or violence on anyone. I don't think Catholic theology ever made women to be less than men, but I definitely agree that its human culture regarding women has changed over time. It influenced what parts of theology have been emphasized and how things got interpreted when. I have thankfully met very few devoted male Catholics who are sexist. I see more of a problem with it among my Protestant family members than my Catholic ones. A lot of them believe women should be subservient and men should subjugate their wives. *Cue dry heaving noises.*
Thank you for your perspective. I fully agree with the positives you listed.
@@sarahtaylor4264 I have mostly been based in Dallas TX, but had nuns from "all over". (Even India!) When I was at a Catholic elementary, we women and girls were allowed to do the readings in church. But not anymore now.
And some of the Catholic parishes around me also follow that modest dress code stuff for women. Like, when did that become a thing? In my day, teenagers were allowed to wear jeans to church.
Way back in Catholic elementary school, I had Irish Catholic nuns. I sure wish I could remember who told us that bit about inherited sin.
And I understand about the frustration with other branches/ brands of Christianity. I have been following some of the blogs at Patheos. (Like "No Longer Quivering", "Love, Joy, Feminism", or "Bilgrimage". There's a lot of really toxic Christianity out there.
Like Lori Alexander (Transformed Wife) to Michael and Debi Pearl, Steven and Zsuzsanna Anderson... Pat Robertson... And so many of them seem to believe in that "wifely submission" thing.
When discussing the potential Mormon influences on Meyers writing, id say it's worth pointing out that a lot of Mormon doctrine is quite literally Native American fanfiction. It definitely makes sense why she would be so blatant in mischaractetizing a real life tribe, it's literally in her religion.
I spoiled Breaking Dawn for a friend of mine (as revenge for her spoiling another book), and my synopsis was so ridiculous that she didn’t believe me.
Which book did she spoil for you?
@@Xehanort10 Brightly Burning by Mercedes Lackey. I still haven't really gotten my revenge, either.
That sucks. I would be furious too if anyone spoiled a Mercedes Lackey book.
What did you say, he was into her ovaries all along?
@@nymphadora1993 "Bella I never wanted you. I wanted the unfertilised eggs in your womb."
Leah's character is probably the best part of these books, even if she's only relevant in the last book and gets fucked over in her arc being abruptly cut. So much potential there and so much development. She's easily the most interesting and sympathetic character because of all the shit she's been through. And the part where Jacob actually becomes friends with her and sees that she's not just an angry bitch for the sake of being an angry bitch. I really like her character, it's why I read Twilight fanfiction, because other authors can and have done her justice.
I would highly recommend reading a fanfic called Leah's Sunrise by forever without him. It's a really,really good sequel to Breaking Dawn (that thankfully cuts out Jacob imprinting on a baby) and is just such a good read. Jacob and Leah are pairing for this, but Jacob is much more likeable than his book counterparts.
My take on the "I'm not a real woman if I can't have babies" trope is that it should be more about having the option taken from them. I think HIMYM handled it pretty well in the episode where Robin finds out she can't have children - she never wanted children, but having the choice taken away from her was still pretty devastating. I just mean, the subject can be done in a less clumsy, "there is only one valid model of womanhood"-ish way.
Also, if Leah is the first EVER female werewolf, how does she know she can't have a baby? If a vampire can conceive a baby, why WOULDN'T a werewolf be able to get pregnant in this stupid world?
Please tell me somebody has written a 50 Shades style (i.e., fanfiction with the names changed) book/series about Leah taking down the werewolf patriarchy?
Her periods stopped when she became a werewolf, which is stupid in its own way (Meyer is terrified of the process of aging so she makes all her non-human characters immortal unchanging beings), so it’s pretty safe for her to assume that she can’t get pregnant.
@@demongoose666 There's also the thing about how men were the ones to be werewolves because the transformation requires testosterone, and Leah transformed because she had higher levels of testosterone for a woman, and that just makes her feel even "less of a woman" and furthers her belief that she cannot have kids. And of course she has no support system or anyone to go to, since everyone in the tribe who is a wolf is a male & none of them want to even discuss "women stuff" with Leah.
Don't tempt me with a story idea! ... (Starts thinking about original characters and story inspired by the idea of a group of Werewolves that are mostly male, then the MC turns into a wolf, and just run with this idea. Not bothering with Vampires.... But Wendigos always scary me, yet not sure if it would be a good fit... Better to run with the concept and see what turns up.) But, thing is; I'm as white as a northern MN, American girl with lots of French blood, can get. Even if I have Native Ancestors, my sister is more of a 'Dark One' then I am (She has dark eyes, hair, and tans better then I could). Would I be crucified for writing a Native Girl?
@@zoebrugg7594 Correct me if I'm wrong but Stephanie Meyer isn't native and I'd doubt you could handle writing about them worse.
Maybe the reason that Leah potentially couldn't conceive is that a fetus may not survive if Leah changes form while pregnant? I read a werewolf book once where werewolf mothers have to fight to stay in human form for 9 months to make sure they can safely give birth. It makes sense in a physical sense, but it still leaves a bad taste.
a lot of fans feel that jacob and leah could’ve been endgame instead. no imprinting, no completely fucked up age gap, and also gives both of them a satisfying ending.
These books really made me think that it was fine to raise someone you intend to date when you’re older in literature and movies. She normalized the grooming but supernatural thing for me. Yikes.
That's the power of books and media... this is why representation is so important
Keep being on the look out for insidious ideas fed to you by culture. Basically everything is propaganda and it takes consistent work to break free. Looks like you have a great start :)
I think you hit the phenomenon on the head when you describe it as a self-insert fantasy. As a girl from a small town who had never been in a relationship, who had never witnessed healthy relationships, Twilight was a wonderful fantasy for me. At the time, I really wanted a hot guy to be crazy about me. Breaking Dawn was the beginning of the fall in my eyes. On top of being super creepy, I thought the entire plotline with Reneesme was a huge cop out. The whole point of Bella becoming a vampire is she SACRIFICES her human life. Bella doesn't lose anything. She gets a child, she still has Charlie, she still has Jacob, and she gets to live forever with Edward. Absolutely ridiculous.
I was thinking the same thing about Bella not losing anything. She and Edward get to stay young and live forever. Renesmee will grow to a young adult them stop aging and live forever, Jacob imprinted on Renesmee (ew) so will stick around and will stay young forever. It's like damn wtf would of happened if the story continued and Charlie's about to die? I'm convinced Meyer would of turned him into a vampire. Can't have the precious main characters suffer a real tragedy.
Isn't that kindof the general thing with those books, the protagonist getting all the thinks she wants plus all the things she got to pretend she didn't want?
Tons of guys fawning over her, a clique of friends she doesn't want but uses anyway, a pretty, rich, immortal family, an obsessive supernatural boyfriend, people having wars over her, a cheesy fairytale marriage she claims she didn't want, a personal shopper/ makeup-assistant who makes sure she's all dolled up and decked out in designer-stuff while claiming she isn't that shallow because it was 'forced' upon her, expensive cars and diamond rings, an immortal life without any of the drawbacks the other characters experienced, a baby which the other female characters are denied (wolf-girl included) that is the perfect grownup from the womb, never screams or talks back, grows up super-fast and will stay a young adult forever without ever going through puberty, her love triangle is resolved while she can still keep her backup-boyfriend under her thumb by him becoming her son in law, plus her own amazing superpower.
Here's my reason for defending imprinting: I just (innocently) assumed that there was going to be nothing sexual about Jacob and Bella's daughter relationship.
I've never read the books but I watched the movie when I was little, back then I didn't think that imprinting was so bad because the movies don't explicitly say that 99.9% of the time imprinting = sexual relationship.
So when I watched the last movie in the theater I saw Bella get angry and thought "Oh come on, it's not always sexual. Jacob will just be a big brother to her. After all, she's just a baby. He can't be attracted to a baby".
Now that I found out that the books go out of their way to equate imprinting with grooming... there's just no reason to defend it. It's gross. Especially because it's in a book aimed at TEENAGERS who might end up thinking that there's nothing wrong with it if they don't know any better!
Meyer tried to handwave it by saying that hybrids are born with 'adult intelligence', meaning that ReNameMe is basically an adult and waiting for her body to age up so her and Jacob can be intimate. To what end I know not, since Meyer also said that hybrids are sterile which puts forth the question why Jacob imprinted on ReNameMe.
(It doesn't put forth the question, it was Meyer 'resolving' the love triangle between Bella, Edward and Jacob and the impending battle between the wolves and the Cullens since 'no wolf would ever harm a brother by destroying his imprintee')
@@rebellyanmagic6409 Yeah, her "explanation" that imprinting is based on finding a partner with genetics most likely to result in a werewolf child flies in the face of Leah being rejected (considering her gene pool), as well as Jacob imprinting on ReNameMe (which is the best version of her name I have ever seen hahaha).
@@TennyConductor Yeah, it really makes no sense that the male werewolves are imprinting on human women when they have a FEMALE WEREWOLF in their pack, like wtf? Wouldn't they all be competing to see who can imprint on her and have the right to breed the first fully werewolf offspring with her? It literally makes no sense.
As a woman struggling with infertility, I can't thank you enough for focusing so much on how disgusting her handling of Leah is. It is such an isolating struggle and it should be talked about much more so people like me feel less of an outsider. I dont feel like I'm less of a woman, my husband and I are doing good, our relationship is doing great and we're pursuing new dreams. But I hate how this book might make other women feel.
From different things Meyer has said in interviews she comes off as a little girl in a grown woman's body. Probably lives in a fairytale fantasy world in her own head and thought that the minute she got married and had kids it was happily ever after. That's not how it works. People who love each other are happy in the relationship but no relationship is perfect.
OMFG I FORGOT EDDIE WAS GONNA LET BELLA SWING WITH JACOB IF SHE GOT AN ABORTION 👀💀
THE SAME GUY THAT WANTED TO WAIT TILL MARRIAGE TO BONE HER TO "SAVE" HER SOUL💀
💀
💀 I forgot about that too like? 😭😭wtf Edward gonna share ur wife? With a 15 year old.... 😭😭😭
Jesus Christ man
YEAAAh, and he was like "I'll let u have my WiFe", BUT WHO SAID SHE AGREES WITH THATW??????
This was the moment I take back my apology to Stephanie Mayer.
I missed opportunity on Bella's part, thought 19 year old me.........
My perspective as someone who really liked twilight as a pre-teen and teen: It was not just the wish-fulfillment aspect - I also liked it in a similar way I liked Harry Potter fanfiction. There are many ideas in twilight, most of which go nowhere, and the wasted potential was part of the allure for me. I liked imagining spin-offs for the other, much more interesting characters, or generally assume my head-canon to be true while reading.
Also, in retrospect, I think I very often gave the books the benefit of doubt, or very generously interpreted what was written - and I think many others did too. Most of twilight's major issues and problematic implications are easily overseen if one a) WANTS to oversee them and/or b) is too young/inexperienced to really understand them. I was not bothered by imprinting at the time - seemed very useful, to just *know* you've found the right person, like love at first sight, and even better to know that person your whole life.
I remember thinking Bella was overreacting for being mad that Jacob imprinted on his daughter, since she already knew he couldn't help it, and that their relationship would obviously only be platonic until age-appropriate, at which point she was guaranteed a loving husband. Grooming was not a concept for me back then. The scene where Jacob forcibly kisses Bella was actually one I couldn't ignore, but then I just wrote it off as Jacob momentarily being a jerk. Honestly, I was way more disturbed by the name Renesmee.
This seems to be true of fandoms in general. It isn't the media itself that's the main appeal, it's the potential for fans to build on it themselves.
It's funny how it's easy to overlook a fictional characters bad behavior if you happen to enjoy them. Damon fro Vampire Diaries, even when he stopped being the antagonist, would still murder and rape innocent people... he makes Edward and Jacob seem like saints by comparrison. But viewers still loved him because he was so freaking entertaining of a character.
And I suppose that's okay as long as your acceptance of the behavior of these fictional characters doens't bleed into real life.
I grew up Mormon so I can kinda explain why infertility is seen as so terrible by Stephanie Meyer.
In the LDS church boys are given the priesthood starting at 12 years old. Women aren't aloud to have the priesthood, to be bishops, or to hold any power in the church unless it's over other women or children. At 12 years old, boys go to Young Men's and girls go to Young Women's. There are activities in these groups. In Young Women's we would learn to crochet, quilt, and see who could make the best pancakes. In Young Men's the boys would go hiking, go camping, and go horseback riding.
As a kid I asked why women couldn't be bishops or hold the priesthood. I was told it was because as women we had the power to have babies and that Heavenly Father had created us equal but for different things. This idea was repeated and expanded upon throughout my teenage years in Young Women's.
My point is, Mormon girls are taught that God has given women the ability to have babies and men the priesthood. Men are leaders and Woman are nurturers. Both the priesthood and the ability to have babies are treated as very important in the LDS church. We are literally taught that having and raising children is our purpose in life. We are taught that we were created to have babies. Can you see why a woman who was raised in this kind of environment would think of infertility as such a terrible thing?
Also basically boy scouts/ girl scouts has this exact problem. It's not just Mormons
@@cosmicriptid Don't the Girl Scouts do pretty much the same things as the Boy Scouts? If there is a problem there I highly doubt that it's to the same extent, or even close, as the LDS church. I can't see girls being told that the ability to get pregnant, give birth, and nurture children is what god made them for in Girl Scouts.
@@jessicacharlton7347 Oh no not being lectured about fertility. I meant girl scouts are tought how to sow and bake cookies while boy scouts go camping and learn survival skills and tool/weapon safety.
@@cosmicriptid I didn't know that. I guess I assumed that Girl Scouts was pretty much the same as Boy Scouts. It's really stupid that they aren't learning the same things.
Uh, my girl scout troop actually did the camping and stuff as well as other troops. When it started, I believe that's what it was but it's definitely more "we do same stuff but cuter" xD
I mean... I was a highly traumatized 13-year-old that tried to hide in books, to find some peace. Basically programmed myself to be the perfect target for the abusive relationship I later slipped into. This shaped a horrifying amount of what I thought love and relationships should be like back then.
A year late, but don't blame yourself for falling into an abusive relationship. It is never your fault. You just didn't know. A lack of knowledge is not the reason you get into a bad relationship- it is entirely on your abuser. I hope you're in a healthier space now. Take care of yourself, internet stranger, and know it isn't your fault.
You could look at Lia being a werewolf because she's intersex and maybe has the "male" chromosomes for a werewolf and it's just rare because their tribe has a reallllllly low rate of intersex births (without even going into trans women existing). But no let's just go with "mysteriously infertile so I'm not woman enough" thanks Meyer
I got so angry with this book back in high school because even then I knew I didn't want kids or a functioning uterus. Like, Lia's living the *dream* and it's supposed to be read as an "oh woe is her!" (Didn't know too much about intersex folk at the time, but I can definitely see it that way now.)
That sounds like the worst thing ever, getting singled out for some atypical sex condition you didn't have any say in
Literally what I was thinking.
The fact they didn’t bring this up as well??? Like being intersex is uncommon but not super rare. (It’s also incredibly stigmatised and Meyer really leans into that). I just assumed Leah would know about it as a rational explanation for why she became a werewolf. Then I reread them and there’s no mention of it at all as a possibility??? They just sort of dance around it??
It’s not ‘I’ve just found out I’m intersex and I don’t know a lot about it and it makes me uncomfortable and I don’t know what to think about my biological sex/gender anymore’
It’s ‘hmm guess I’m not really a woman, I want to have babies, guess there’s no reason for it at all I’m just weird, magic sucks, there’s something wrong with me’
@@halliehurst4847 The rate of people with intersex conditions (both genetic and hormonal) is about equal to the rate of people with ginger hair! Lots of people have no idea they're intersex until they try to have children, or never find out at all. And when was the last time someone in popular media was intersex?
When I first read twilight, the only characters I could relate to in any capacity were Rosalie and Leah as they were both infertile around the time I was discovering I probably am... They were such comfort characters despite their mistreatment and reading the last book and seeing how Rosalie was turned into basically a bodyguard and the antagonistic person protecting Bella/baby (whatever the thing's name is) and how Leah never even got a proper ending, it really crushed me. I was fourteen wrestling with the fact that the thing was my cultural duty and the one thing I thought could connect me back to my traditionalist Indian family wasn't something that was possible and reading that the two characters I had found comfort as they seemed to justify my very existence be tossed aside and barely acknowledged was... well it contributed to a lot of my self-hatred at the time. From the previous books, I wasn't expecting the world and I knew how infertile women are treated in fiction (Natasha Romanova went from my favourite character with her escaping KGB and becoming a hero to just another representation of myself that I couldn't stand to look at for too long) but I had somehow hoped for more in this book. Thank you so much for actually talking about it when addressing Leah's mistreatment, it really validated a lot of old hurts I'd been repressing for a while.
Leah is a character I find really interesting but that's more what I make her into in my head. With every good character Meyer writes ( Rosalie, Alice, Leah ...) it seems to be by accident.
I think the three cool female characters should run off together and have a badass roadtrip, "Thelma and Louise" style. WHO'S WITH ME?
@@robinchesterfield42 I would LOVE that. Sign me up!!
There is another series written by Sherilyn Kenyon that does this type of “sexual imprinting” correctly.
First, both parties must be mature, and if I remember correctly the were-hunters reach their sexual puberty slower than humans so everyone is an adult.
Second, it all started because of a bunch of asshole gods fucking with people and it turning into a hot mess that kept getting worse.
Thirdly, it’s not treated as this entirely always beautiful thing. The were-hunters are often both excited and terrified at the prospect of finding their fated mate. It can be a beautiful partnership and make you the happiest you’ve ever been, but there are examples of pairings where they’re paired with someone they never want to be with and it turns into a nightmare for everyone. Again, asshole gods fucking with people.
The mating ritual must be consensual, it’s ultimately up to the female to decide if she will accept the male.
But it’s also not an uncontrollable urge: they *can* technically ignore it, but the compulsion to seek them out will always be there and if I remember correctly they (or at least the males) won’t be physically able to have sex with anyone else, and both partners will be unable to reproduce with anyone other than each other (unless one is human or another race, in which case the rules don’t apply to them.) Doesn’t sound fair? No, it’s not; see previous asshole gods.
That’s all I can remember off the top of my head. There’s probably details I’m forgetting, but it does make for some good reading.
I mean ‘fated mates’ is a whole supernatural/paranormal romance trope, with varying degrees of ‘good’ depending on the writer. Granted in romance everyone’s an ADULT, which generally makes it more palatable than *gestures wildly at Twilight*.
This reminds me of ElfQuest
What’s the series
@@Mangocakegurl The Were-Hunters series by Sherrylin Kenyon. It also sometimes comes up in her Dark Hunters series.
I can't remember her name, but I know of another author who did it rather well, although in one incident, the, "woah, mate!" Happened between, like, 10 year olds and was completely one-sided, but then there were Romeo-and-Julliet style shenanigans, only with more patricide, and when they see each other again in 500 years, one of the only functional heterosexual enemies-to-lovers romances I've read happens. If you're interested in it, I can find it, but I would reccomend reading the rest of the series first. Be warned, the love interest starts out pretty sexist, but comes around to the philosophy that women can fight after seeing the lead lady kick ass in any situation. The lead lady is unapologetically a hedonist, and I may or may not be in love with her, but.....
Oh, and smut warning on the whole series.
Wait, how did this turn into a book report? That wasn't the intention. FU-
So here's the thing. I'll talk about my relationship with this book but I assume it applies to a lot of us. I read this as a young teen. I thought the birth scene was metal, I thought Leah was a super interesting character, I thought the imprinting was weird. But I didn't have a level of reading comprehension to think much beyond that so at this point it was just an entertaining book. Looking back I see that the implication and the way the author is treating these things is inherently problematic, but at the time I could just identify the subject without being able to discern author intent because I was so young. That's why I didn't hate the books.
I never read Twilight but... even as a young teen, I could catch stuff like that. I was critical towards J.K. Rowling long before it became mainstream (and boy the hate I got for not singing her praises).
I'm not trying to bash you. Just thinking it might have something to do with exposure? My reading was quite advanced early on so I was reading books for an older audience as a young teen. That could have shaped my perception.
@@Ikajo congrats, I was not reading my vampire romance novel with an especially critical eye as a thirteen year old.
@@skittykay As I said, I wasn't trying to bash you. I was simply pondering the difference and why that might be so. My way of reading books are heavily influenced by the fact that I have always been someone who tells stories myself. I'm a writer.
@@Ikajo i know you weren't, and genuinely I'm sure you're better off for it. I just didn't spend a lot of time thinking critically about what I was reading for fun when I was in middle school. And I think a lot of people are in my boat. It wasn't until more advanced literature classes that I realized everything is political.
Honestly I think that’s worse in a way because the books normalize grooming for young teens. (I am in no way blaming you for liking them, I’m blaming the author and publishers.)
My friend used to write fanfiction about Leah going on a roadtrip type/find yourself story. It was awesome.
Link please
Run me that link daddy 😂😂😂
Please link it, literally everyone can do twilight better than myer
@@Smashboi76 true. Except for e.l. james...
@@victoriashevlin8587 her whole career is stealing from myer so she doesn't count
My f**king god... the idea that black widow was talking about her infertility as the reason she was a monster on the team instead of, like, that she had to murder innocent people?
That implication flew straight over my head, and has now sailed all the way around the world to hit me again square in the jaw.
And then decided to die because she "had nothing to live for/ couldn't accomplish anything". WTF you did a lot of crazy stuff! You were literally like the only girl avenger before Scarlet Witch showed up. And they killed off the only infertile character!
I was monumentally pissed off when I saw that shit in the movie, it looked so out of character, like I’m sorry I forgot women only live to have children! 🤦🏻♀️ I know the marvel cinematic universe is not a masterpiece but this was low af
@@boniboni4912 blame joss whedon. He has a history of doing this stuff.
@@skvaderarts7009 spoiler
They introduced her adoptive sister whose also infertile
@@TSDTalks22 Yep. Not the first time he's done creepy shit involving pregnant women. Angel Season 4's crappy Jasmine plot was all because he got pissed at Charisma Carpenter who played Cordelia for getting pregnant. He even asked if she was going to abort it.