The museum definitely wishes they could take in this replica but their simply just isn’t enough space to keep it inside, between the Lanc, the B-25, the DC-3 and the other planes they have along with the ones being restored. If they took the plane it still wouldn’t be fixed up for a long time because of all the Warplane heritage museum projects. They could but they’d have to put it outside for a good amount of time, and what would be the point of putting it outside. It’s really a tough situation and I really hope it gets resolved because it pains my heart to see this replica so many put their time into fall into disrepair like this, not far from the grounds where she was built that are now gone. We really need to preserve this history in anyway that we can.
The Avro Arrow is a very big aircraft. From probe to tail she is about 80 feet long. Her wingspan is about 50 feet wide and sits at the cockpit almost 2 stories off the ground and then you have the tail or known as an upper stabilizer, almost an extra storey taller. Remember although she could have fighter capabilities in a limited fashion, she was more a Bomber Inceptor...
As is mentioned, there is not enough indoor space at CWH; a number of their aircraft are in storage as it is and several others are parked outside. Same space limitations affect CASM (Ottawa) and NMRCAF (Trenton). Remember, the Arrow was huge: she was ten feet longer than the earlier Lancaster heavy bomber...
Good news.... it is now located at the Edenvale Classic Aircraft Foundation on Hwy. 26 between Barrie and Stayner Ontario where a dedicated hanger for their museum is being built.... will need a lot of work but that's the plan....
Mr. Kroupa who owns the Model now has had members of the original team from T.A.M who worked on the model have been back and forth to repair the damage and it is looking better.
As an employee at Pearson saw it many times....always thought it was a shame it ended up there....the GTAA which run Pearson should have had it hanging from the ceiling at Terminal 1...huge ceilings with plenty of room...instead they had these ridiculous giant sculptures of paper airplanes....or it would have been nice to have seen it at the CWH or the aviation museum in Ottawa....shame on both of them for not grabbing it....I saw it a couple of times at the Downview museum where they built it and it was really impressive...they did a great job ....good for the Edenvale group that finally rescued it and I'm looking forward to seeing it again there.
That Pearson terminal idea is an interesting one...criticism of CASM and CWH for not going after the mockup is offside, though, as neither museum has enough indoor room...both museums have sizeable parts of their collections in storage as it is...
OMG, how many mistakes can you count in this news piece? 1. The Arrow was built to intercept Soviet bombers, not spy planes. 2. The objects at the bottom of Lake Ontario are remains of the test models, not pieces of the original aircraft. 3. Black Friday was in Feb '59, not '58. 4. The replica is not the only full size one in Canada, there's one in Alberta that they borrowed and used for the CBC movie back in 1997.
At present, the "Avro Arrow Model RL203" has been saved and it still in repair and together at Edenvale Aerodrome in Stayner ON. just west of Barrie. If you would like more information you can find that at "Friends of Avro Arrow RL25206-(An Active Avro Arrow Program)" on Facebook.
4 ปีที่แล้ว
I can't believe that nobody wants to house this beautiful creation
GIVE IT TO THE AVIATION MUSEUM IN OTTAWA!! For heaven's sake!!! That shouldn't even be a question. If there are multiple replicas, one should go to Hamilton too.
This is disgusting and at the same time not surprising. Politicians through out history are only interested in the moment and document the moment. In more recent times and the development of photo technology, this documentation is done on film. When they were building the Avro Arrow replica, there was no real lack of attention, politicians were very supportive and after they had their photos taken with the finished product, their attention to the project waned. They will always have what is more important to them, the photograph buried deep within files somewhere. This has happened many time over, and don't take my word for it, research it as the evidence exists and it not difficult to find. I went through school being taught that Sir John A, MacDonald was a great person and a great Canadian and it was all centred around the Canadian Confederation. I remember a program that was about to be shown on TV and I believe it was on CBC around 2008. I do not remember the title, but on TV the description was referred to as, even back during confederation it was a lawless society. This is a paraphrase as I cannot quote the phrase exactly and I do not have it written down. I wanted to watch the program, but as I worked in the merchant marine and would not be available at that time, I was not able to. I am sure it was interesting. As I had written earlier that in school I was taught of how great Sir John A. MacDonald was, but from my experience in these lessons, I can only remember being taught of his part in Canadian Confederation. They never taught me anything about the terrible things he had done. I am confidant that if Sir John A, MacDonald was alive today and living in your neighbourhood, you would probably wish he would move, and not just to a different neighbourhood, but to a different Province. Most people forget the bad things of people, so maybe when someone that could significantly influence your life says something, you should ask yourself, has this person any history that would put what they say in question. SO when a politician is responsible for the care of something, once it has achieved it intended goal, it could end up as landfill. Look around the world today, all we have learned from many leaders is hate and we have many history lessons that can teach us what this will lead to.
So they finished the replica in 2006 and it was outside falling apart by 2019. What an embarrassment, pretty much on par with Canada these days in general. Wonder what happened to the museums other displays
Yes, the fullscale Arrow now at Edenvale is a very impressive mockup, more like the pre-build mockups Avro built in the mid-50s. It's intended to give a sense of the Arrow's size and outward appearance, and it does that well...
Absolutely, 203 is 100% the size of an Avro Arrow. My company Arrow206 will be working with Edenvale to do events to help us raise the necessary fund to build a 1:1 Full-Scale Fly actual replica Avro Arrow. RL206. Because we will be working with authentic A.V.Roe Blueprints, RL206 is declared an actual replica. Very cool.
The Avro Arrow was designed and built in Malton, just outside Toronto. The replica you speak of was used in the movie 'The Arrow' and built out of mostly wood I believe, by a great, talented aviation enthusiast. The one in this report was built using original blue prints provided by a man who worked for the A.V. Roe company in the 50's. Many people put 1000's of hours of hard work and dedication into this project and many companies and people donated the materials and money needed. I was able to volunteer for about 2 weeks to help build the inner right wing and was sorry I couldn't see the project through to the end. Your comment disrespects all of the people involved in this project. When it comes to Canadian aviation history, Toronto was the center point of more or less all of it, so take your petty jealousies and go and learn some Canadian aviation history.
@@kevinlee92265 what about in BC where bomber crews were trained during WW2? Oh that's right, if it's not history made in ontario it doesn't count......
@@endutubecensorship They were actually mostly trained in Alberta at the many airfields built there for the British Commonwealth Air Training Program. A few of them still exist. Western Canada, still.
Edenvale Aerodrome was able to purchase and save the Model from that condition. She is all together and still has some damage from the 5 years outside, but it saved and looking really fantastic..
If this one is more accurate and made of metal / right materials. Then if worse comes to worse switch the location with the wooden one. Hey maybe some rich person would by the wooden one and give it a new home .
The wooden one and the metal one (and BTW only the metal one is full-size) are both kept under cover now. Another, smaller, primarily wooden lookalike is being built in Alberta; that one is intended to be flown under the power of two turbines from a Learjet...
badly made and researched. as an example what the lady was talking about were models fired using bomark missles for air tests. there were other errors as well.
Nike rockets, not BOMARCs (the BOMARC was a much more substantial and elaborate device designed to knock down Soviet bombers). But you're right, the underwater thing is a small scale free flight model. Several were fired into Lake Ontario early in the programme.
if you have not seen my posts in other clips from the Canadian Avro Arrow . what im trying to do is start a trend so that the govermont of canada will start to biuld canadian fighter jets and the number one resen is that it would get more jobs for canadians and bring in billyens of dallers in to canada but the most one thing i would like to see is for them to start with are Canadian Histery the Canadian Avro Arrow i wish i can win the lotto max of 60.million becouse i would give a call to help out and yes thats becouse i am canadian besides that im thinking of the jobs for canadians and the troops and i would like to see and here that the troops are going to get more high end stuff
no no. i want to see these things fly again. there is no way this should be sitting like this, now that canada has tons of "tax dollars" to throw around, compared to then.
email sent 06.11.2018 Hello Doug Ford can you please kindly intercede on behalf of all Canadians and provide the level of respect that this tragic Canadian icon deserves - agreed it is a reminder of the idiocy of Canadian political bureaucracy ineptitude and bullying US relations at that time and not something any politician then or now wants to be associated with but to think that these volunteers worked so hard in 2006 to re-create this replica model and then to see it once again destroyed by political bumbling is not a disgrace - it is a national tragedy and NO politician wants anything to do with it - please do what you can to help find the Avro Arrow a home regards Glenn
4 ปีที่แล้ว
A conservative would never aid in preserving the memory of a liberal initiative
Historically it was Conservative John Diefenbaker’s government that killed the original project and led to many of the aerospace engineers moving to the United States to work for NASA. Notice any visual influence in the delta wing shape of the Space Shuttle ? While we may not have produced a cost effective interceptor, we did produce some great Out of This World robotics in the CanadArm 1 and 2 and some fabulous Astronauts. And don’t forget Velcro.
Ha, that figures, not that its funny, but jeese, another embarrassing chapter in canadian aviation history. Errrrr, ya know what is going to happen don't ya,......cut into pieces, eventually. What a mess,....and I only started seeing videos and the movie on the avro arrow last week,...then to see this, ....shocking.
Happily the Edenvale group took the Arrow mockup (and some of the other ex-TAM exhibits) on and are looking after them well. The Arrow is fully assembled inside a hangar at Edenvale and looks superb.
why is it not taken to the Canadian Warplane Heritage site in Hamilton along with the Lancaster - this is a DISGRACE
Because the Lancaster takes all the room the Avro would need for being inside a hanger.
The museum definitely wishes they could take in this replica but their simply just isn’t enough space to keep it inside, between the Lanc, the B-25, the DC-3 and the other planes they have along with the ones being restored. If they took the plane it still wouldn’t be fixed up for a long time because of all the Warplane heritage museum projects. They could but they’d have to put it outside for a good amount of time, and what would be the point of putting it outside. It’s really a tough situation and I really hope it gets resolved because it pains my heart to see this replica so many put their time into fall into disrepair like this, not far from the grounds where she was built that are now gone. We really need to preserve this history in anyway that we can.
The Avro Arrow is a very big aircraft. From probe to tail she is about 80 feet long. Her wingspan is about 50 feet wide and sits at the cockpit almost 2 stories off the ground and then you have the tail or known as an upper stabilizer, almost an extra storey taller. Remember although she could have fighter capabilities in a limited fashion, she was more a Bomber Inceptor...
As is mentioned, there is not enough indoor space at CWH; a number of their aircraft are in storage as it is and several others are parked outside. Same space limitations affect CASM (Ottawa) and NMRCAF (Trenton). Remember, the Arrow was huge: she was ten feet longer than the earlier Lancaster heavy bomber...
Good news.... it is now located at the Edenvale Classic Aircraft Foundation on Hwy. 26 between Barrie and Stayner Ontario where a dedicated hanger for their museum is being built.... will need a lot of work but that's the plan....
Mr. Kroupa who owns the Model now has had members of the original team from T.A.M who worked on the model have been back and forth to repair the damage and it is looking better.
As an employee at Pearson saw it many times....always thought it was a shame it ended up there....the GTAA which run Pearson should have had it hanging from the ceiling at Terminal 1...huge ceilings with plenty of room...instead they had these ridiculous giant sculptures of paper airplanes....or it would have been nice to have seen it at the CWH or the aviation museum in Ottawa....shame on both of them for not grabbing it....I saw it a couple of times at the Downview museum where they built it and it was really impressive...they did a great job ....good for the Edenvale group that finally rescued it and I'm looking forward to seeing it again there.
That Pearson terminal idea is an interesting one...criticism of CASM and CWH for not going after the mockup is offside, though, as neither museum has enough indoor room...both museums have sizeable parts of their collections in storage as it is...
OMG, how many mistakes can you count in this news piece? 1. The Arrow was built to intercept Soviet bombers, not spy planes. 2. The objects at the bottom of Lake Ontario are remains of the test models, not pieces of the original aircraft. 3. Black Friday was in Feb '59, not '58. 4. The replica is not the only full size one in Canada, there's one in Alberta that they borrowed and used for the CBC movie back in 1997.
At present, the "Avro Arrow Model RL203" has been saved and it still in repair and together at Edenvale Aerodrome in Stayner ON. just west of Barrie. If you would like more information you can find that at "Friends of Avro Arrow RL25206-(An Active Avro Arrow Program)" on Facebook.
I can't believe that nobody wants to house this beautiful creation
It's a shame that even the replica of an Arrow cannot survive.
If the blueprints are still around today, we need to rebuild it
Why not send it to the aviation museum in Ottawa??
GIVE IT TO THE AVIATION MUSEUM IN OTTAWA!!
For heaven's sake!!! That shouldn't even be a question.
If there are multiple replicas, one should go to Hamilton too.
@Bagheera
Sadly true :/
Wouldn't be room for that at CWH, not inside anyway; some of the collection's aircraft are already stored elsewhere...
I can think of at least 5 places in BC that would happily house the model
This is disgusting and at the same time not surprising. Politicians through out history are only interested in the moment and document the moment. In more recent times and the development of photo technology, this documentation is done on film. When they were building the Avro Arrow replica, there was no real lack of attention, politicians were very supportive and after they had their photos taken with the finished product, their attention to the project waned. They will always have what is more important to them, the photograph buried deep within files somewhere. This has happened many time over, and don't take my word for it, research it as the evidence exists and it not difficult to find. I went through school being taught that Sir John A, MacDonald was a great person and a great Canadian and it was all centred around the Canadian Confederation. I remember a program that was about to be shown on TV and I believe it was on CBC around 2008. I do not remember the title, but on TV the description was referred to as, even back during confederation it was a lawless society. This is a paraphrase as I cannot quote the phrase exactly and I do not have it written down. I wanted to watch the program, but as I worked in the merchant marine and would not be available at that time, I was not able to. I am sure it was interesting. As I had written earlier that in school I was taught of how great Sir John A. MacDonald was, but from my experience in these lessons, I can only remember being taught of his part in Canadian Confederation. They never taught me anything about the terrible things he had done. I am confidant that if Sir John A, MacDonald was alive today and living in your neighbourhood, you would probably wish he would move, and not just to a different neighbourhood, but to a different Province. Most people forget the bad things of people, so maybe when someone that could significantly influence your life says something, you should ask yourself, has this person any history that would put what they say in question. SO when a politician is responsible for the care of something, once it has achieved it intended goal, it could end up as landfill. Look around the world today, all we have learned from many leaders is hate and we have many history lessons that can teach us what this will lead to.
So they finished the replica in 2006 and it was outside falling apart by 2019. What an embarrassment, pretty much on par with Canada these days in general. Wonder what happened to the museums other displays
Just steal the dam thing and put it in a safe place.
DON,T LET THE DIEFENBAKER'S HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT. THEY WILL TELL YOU TO GET A TORCH . JUST MY OPINION
Although the definition between "Replica" and "Model" is similar as defined, RL203 is declared as a "Model"...
Yes, the fullscale Arrow now at Edenvale is a very impressive mockup, more like the pre-build mockups Avro built in the mid-50s. It's intended to give a sense of the Arrow's size and outward appearance, and it does that well...
Absolutely, 203 is 100% the size of an Avro Arrow.
My company Arrow206 will be working with Edenvale to do events to help us raise the necessary fund to build a 1:1 Full-Scale Fly actual replica Avro Arrow. RL206.
Because we will be working with authentic A.V.Roe Blueprints, RL206 is declared an actual replica. Very cool.
@@canadiantimberwolf1 WOW! Well done and sthank you so much for reviving a unique canadian engineered piece of art in aviation history. Much love
@@gIllEsdAIglE2gd Thank You, I was just going over a few comments here and there. We have devloped a bit more
PC's should fund the majority of the rebuild.
Bring it to the Royal Aviation Museum in Winnipeg
So sad.
What about the replica in the Reynolds Museum in Alberta??? There is more to Canada than just Torontttttttttto ;)
The Avro Arrow was designed and built in Malton, just outside Toronto. The replica you speak of was used in the movie 'The Arrow' and built out of mostly wood I believe, by a great, talented aviation enthusiast. The one in this report was built using original blue prints provided by a man who worked for the A.V. Roe company in the 50's. Many people put 1000's of hours of hard work and dedication into this project and many companies and people donated the materials and money needed. I was able to volunteer for about 2 weeks to help build the inner right wing and was sorry I couldn't see the project through to the end. Your comment disrespects all of the people involved in this project. When it comes to Canadian aviation history, Toronto was the center point of more or less all of it, so take your petty jealousies and go and learn some Canadian aviation history.
WHERES ALBERTA???🤣?🤣
@@kevinlee92265 what about in BC where bomber crews were trained during WW2? Oh that's right, if it's not history made in ontario it doesn't count......
@@endutubecensorship lol bomber crews trained
@@endutubecensorship They were actually mostly trained in Alberta at the many airfields built there for the British Commonwealth Air Training Program. A few of them still exist. Western Canada, still.
Why is this outside?
Sorry but you have the year wrong for the cancelling of the Avro Arrow project. It was February 20th, 1959, not 1958.
Yeah, there were a few hiccups in the news piece. (I expect Mr Rowe was not on the scene yet during the Arrow's day!) 😁
Oh well, it's still doing better than our first prime minister's statue is doing
Heh. Now I have a vision of bronze Sir John As being fired into Lake Ontario atop Nike rockets...
Well hopefully John Tory can help save this .
Edenvale Aerodrome was able to purchase and save the Model from that condition. She is all together and still has some damage from the 5 years outside, but it saved and looking really fantastic..
If this one is more accurate and made of metal / right materials. Then if worse comes to worse switch the location with the wooden one. Hey maybe some rich person would by the wooden one and give it a new home .
The wooden one and the metal one (and BTW only the metal one is full-size) are both kept under cover now. Another, smaller, primarily wooden lookalike is being built in Alberta; that one is intended to be flown under the power of two turbines from a Learjet...
badly made and researched. as an example what the lady was talking about were models fired using bomark missles for air tests. there were other errors as well.
Nike rockets, not BOMARCs (the BOMARC was a much more substantial and elaborate device designed to knock down Soviet bombers). But you're right, the underwater thing is a small scale free flight model. Several were fired into Lake Ontario early in the programme.
if you have not seen my posts in other clips from the Canadian Avro Arrow . what im trying to do is start a trend so that the govermont of canada will start to biuld canadian fighter jets and the number one resen is that it would get more jobs for canadians and bring in billyens of dallers in to canada but the most one thing i would like to see is for them to start with are Canadian Histery the Canadian Avro Arrow i wish i can win the lotto max of 60.million becouse i would give a call to help out and yes thats becouse i am canadian besides that im thinking of the jobs for canadians and the troops and i would like to see and here that the troops are going to get more high end stuff
Dude that has nothing two do with your comment so keep your texting to your self
no no. i want to see these things fly again. there is no way this should be sitting like this,
now that canada has tons of "tax dollars" to throw around, compared to then.
This fullscale mockup could never be flown. It is simply a static lookalike, and that was all it was intended to be...
Why isn't this in Hamilton
Wouldn't fit in an already full hangar...would have to be displayed outside, and that has already cost the collection one airframe...
email sent 06.11.2018
Hello Doug Ford
can you please kindly intercede on behalf of all Canadians and provide the level of respect that this tragic Canadian icon deserves - agreed it is a reminder of the idiocy of Canadian political bureaucracy ineptitude and bullying US relations at that time and not something any politician then or now wants to be associated with but to think that these volunteers worked so hard in 2006 to re-create this replica model and then to see it once again destroyed by political bumbling is not a disgrace - it is a national tragedy and NO politician wants anything to do with it - please do what you can to help find the Avro Arrow a home
regards
Glenn
A conservative would never aid in preserving the memory of a liberal initiative
Historically it was Conservative John Diefenbaker’s government that killed the original project and led to many of the aerospace engineers moving to the United States to work for NASA. Notice any visual influence in the delta wing shape of the Space Shuttle ? While we may not have produced a cost effective interceptor, we did produce some great Out of This World robotics in the CanadArm 1 and 2 and some fabulous Astronauts. And don’t forget Velcro.
I will make full scale backfire,blackjack,blackbird ,valkyrie and boeing 2707
Resurrection CF-105~!!!
That is in the planning stages as I write this..
Ha, that figures, not that its funny, but jeese, another embarrassing chapter in canadian aviation history. Errrrr, ya know what is going to happen don't ya,......cut into pieces, eventually. What a mess,....and I only started seeing videos and the movie on the avro arrow last week,...then to see this, ....shocking.
Happily the Edenvale group took the Arrow mockup (and some of the other ex-TAM exhibits) on and are looking after them well. The Arrow is fully assembled inside a hangar at Edenvale and looks superb.
Moose Jaw Saskatchewan
Please DO NOT REMIND US...
It will be destroyed again....corrupts!🙄🙄🙄