Mr Pete, As usual your videos are very informative and interesting. I have a Walker Turner drill press of the same vintage as yours that I rescued from the scrap yard a few years ago. It has the belt guard, and I was surprised to find that it is cast aluminum not cast iron. Thanks for all the good work you pass on to us. By the way this video was not boring. Bob Auer
Great video Mr. Pete. I'm one of those guys with a woodworking bandsaw who needs a metalworking bandsaw, but doesn't have $1500 or so to buy one. Thanks for doing this series.
I remember well, one of my favorite videos, your prony brake. After seeing drawings of them in books since I was a kid, your video make the torque and horsepower explanation come real. Thanks.
Reverse is mandatory to be able to use reverse (left hand drill bits) which are super handy for getting broken machine screws out. I have fitted my drill presses with this feature.
Mr. Pete, Nice video once again. I just this past week installed a 2 1/2 horse DC, 90 volt treadmill motor on my drill press. I used a small ac controller with a bridge rectifier to convert ac to dc. It works to my satisfaction getting the rpm down to 70 at the slowest speed. I drilled a 2 1/4 in hole in quarter inch mild steel plate with a Lennox hole saw. It had plenty of torque at slow speed and had no noticeable belt slippage and I watched for both very carefully. I used plenty of oil for lubricant and I checked the heat of the hole saw frequently just by touching it. It was hot but not overly so. Also it took awhile to cut the hole but the controller didn’t develop any noticeable heat. It does have heat sinks, however. That always a necessity with a bridge rectifier as the diodes in them will quickly burn out if the heat isn’t quickly dissipated. Again, another first quality video. Thanks. Dale from Decatur
A couple notes. DC motors should have high torque at low speeds especially compared to AC motor controlled by a VFD. I've converted a few machine tools for this exact reason. Also, there are seemingly four adjustable pots on the dc drive board. Some have six. The four that are apparent on your drive are Min speed, Max speed, Current Limit and IR ( compensating voltage required to keep the motor speed constant with varying loads ). You may need to adjust these to calibrate your application. I have a very rare version of the Walker Turner drill press (1939) that is missing the factory switch. If your ditching yours I would trade you for the reversing switch you need for the dc drive. The switch you require needs to operate as follows: when switched between the Forward and Reverse positions, the blocked center position causes a delay which protects the DC drive from any voltage that may be on the motor armature terminals. I would imagine that if you quickly flipped a standard switch between F and R that you could damage the motor and/or drive.
Thanks for the offer, I want to keep that switch for when I converted back to original. I do need to play around with those pots. To try and increase the torque. But actually I am moving ahead and installing a VFD given to me by a viewer. Remember these are all experiments
With a vector type VFD, AC motors will have very high starting torque. If you go cheaper with sensorless vector, not so much. If you go with an encoder on a vector drive...look out.
Great point and a great solution for higher end budgets or machinery. mrpete222 bought the drill press for $135 some time ago and its a drill press! I might also add that in a tapping application, AC drive/motor setups would be superior for 1: The deccel / accel parameters are very adjustable , and 2: Flip an external programmed fwd/rev switch and back that tap out fast. Many ways to drill holes. For low cost solutions either AC or DC I use automation direct. Not a plug, I have just had great experience with them.
Thanks for the reply. I have been on the search forever for an original switch/housing. I would like to restore my drill press as it is very rare (in exceptional shape and dates to 1939 as it has a face plate/logo only used that year and the rare ship wheel down feed handle). No factory switch unfortunately. If you could cast me one from the original I would really appreciate your work. In exchange; I have a lot of surplus old stuff to sweeten the deal! You could make another fantastic video of the process!!! Please PM to discuss further. Again, I would really appreciate your assistance and knowledge.
I have seen a spectacular failure of a DC servomotor drive when direction was abruptly changed. Blew transistors through a drywall. But in this case abrupt direction change was a requirement. Back to the design board.
Great series Mr. Pete, I'm waiting for Tips #500 on how to install a Hydra-Matic in a 50 Olds without a jack. Wow that thing was a lot of cast iron and that enclosed drive shaft was a piece of work too. My respect, please don't hurt yourself.
i just swapped a motor on my drill press, and holding it up is a problem, until i realized you can just rotate the table around to the back and use it to raise the motor and hold it steady while you install the bolts.
@@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC Just put a counter weight on it like 5 gallon's of paint. or a 5 gallon homer bucket full of water. handy if you need to cool a part too.
The capacitor on an AC induction motor isn't there to "store up" energy to give extra power to start the motor. That would not work with AC (unless you had active electronics). It's needed because induction motors don't have a bias in either direction if they are not already rotating. If you disconnect the start winding and turn it on, it will just sit there (and overheat). If you give the shaft a turn manually it will continue in that direction and speed up to it's normal speed. Adding a start winding that is rotated 90° relative to the main winding creates a bias and makes it self-starting. It solves the same problem of how a single cylinder steam engine isn't self starting, but adding a 2nd cylinder (offset by 90°) ensures that it is. It's not strictly necessary (with motors that have a centrifugal switch), but the capacitor effectively 'delays' the AC waveform feeding the start winding giving it more of a directional bias for greater starting torque.
I have a drill press that looks just like that one. The name plate is missing on mine. My dad gave it to me about 25 years ago when I was in my 40's and he said he found it out in a field. He cleaned it up and it looks like yours now. He said he didn't need more than 1 drill press. He passed away 6 years ago and now I have more than 1 drill press. Amazing it was not all rusted and pitted when he found it. He said he found it a few years before he gave it to me. I think they are about 60 to 75 years old now. I am going to put a 3 phase motor and VFD on it and see how that works. Mine also has a very unique table with built in vise.
Nice job. I have an old Canadian Drill press #15 with Cap Start. @ 1750 rpm speeds on 5 step pulley are 6,300, 3,400, 1,725, 900, and 400 RPM. Made in Kitchener ON Canada. Jacob's 1/2" chuck. Using an appropriate 3" clamp and some Uni-Strut and plywood, I made a small platform to keep my Drill Press Vice on. Make sure it cannot vibrate off. Thank you safety boots! I only wish it had a gear drive to raise the Drill Platform. It has been converted to a Floor vice from a Bench Vise. Likely made in the 1950's. When you need a drill press, nothing else will do. I note that the decal indicated to come to full stop before reversing if you install that function.
As always, a great video! As for not having full speed at the spindle, I believe it's because of the step up from the small pulley at the motor to the larger pulley at the drill.
I changed my drill press and bandsaw to D.C. Drive treadmill motors many years ago. Also tap with my drill press. You would be surprised at the torture at the low speed on these drives. Will try to send pictures.
Hi mrpete, good modification in order to get decent lower speed to work with bigger drill bits, looking forward to see how it delivers the expected results. If my memory serves me well there is a min/max setting for output volts, and, possibly for constant torque function, just from memory, though... I only an adorable acccent when I speak English, though... lol Thanks for the mention... ;)
Have you ever noticed that heavy duty drills don't have a break but the battery powered ones do always wondered why you cant get a brake as an option on a drill. Reminded me when there was a brake switch on the control box. I think the hole hawgs and other corded hand helds should have a brake for those times when they get into trouble but would be hard on the motor and gears I guess. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
I believe the DC motors in the cordless drills just short the motor leads to get the braking effect... This doesn't work with AC motors. (Not an electrician, just learned this tidbit playing with DC actuators)
your new delta-ki name is transmission jack(hope you where using guide bolts cut some all-thread off thread em in and it'll funnel er on to the dowels tighten the bolts down enough to get the converter pilot engaged it the crank then as you tighten them down make sure the converter still spins if not the pump drive gear is installed backwards or the drive tangs ar'nt engaged in the converter spinning while finish tightening usually solves that problem though) gonna love the tach install gonna check out pierre's love his starrett 98 level adjust vid thanks mr pete
Here's what I did to reduce speeds on a WT drill press. I placed another multiple diameter pulley motor on the wall behind the press and use the regular motor only as a reduction pulley holder. The secondary belt runs on the smallest pulley on motor #2 to the largest pulley on motor #1. Then, the original belt is placed on the smallest groove on motor #1 and the largest on the press pulley. The result is that I can get speeds down to 300 RPM. It works like a champ. I hope that makes sense.
Very nice and informative Mr Pete. I have a jet verdion of the same bandsaw, I converted it to a metal cutting saw with pully's and belts. Wish I would have found a dc motor like yours, it would hafe been easier.
I'm adding a 1 1/2 pmdc to my lathe with a variac and full bridge. Just no load tested today and was impressed with smooth speed changes and no annoying circuit sounds...if I can keep things from frying I will do a drill press as well.
I may add a smaller PMDC motor just for oil pump duty. And save the 1 1/2 for just taking those cuts. If 2 hp AC can take 0.10 cuts then I'm sure the DC will be more than torquey enough....this will be one Frankenstein lathe for sure....
re: the alignment of the pulley sheaves, I believe it is called "coplaner"; when I word fumble I just say "it's optimized", that dazzles my audience who never pesters me afterwards for the correct term. ☺
You could build a H bridge with 4 appropriately rated relays or transistors to reverse the direction of rotation, then any old SPDT switch could be used, finding a high current/voltage switch might be less painful though. I just got my "big" Chinese drill press running, the seller had replaced the capacitor with a 150uF part (it has a PSC motor, the one capacitor is the start capacitor and the run capacitor, no switch involved or required) so it had very low torque and got very hot, eventually I got a 20uF part from him and now it works great, noisy and rattly but plenty of torque and runs cool. It has three pulleys and two belts and is super annoying to change speeds. Big DC motors here in Australia are pretty uncommon for some reason, but a 3 phase replacement with a VFD would be nice to have.
I recently came into possession of a Sears Companion drill press. Smaller but very similar looking. I'd like to make a slow speed pulley addition. Used they cost more than the drill press is worth.
If you could put a pair of pulleys between the existing shafts, spindles and pulleys, you could get the RPM down lower while keeping some decent 'wrap'. Perhaps a synchronous belt and pulleys or a chain and sprockets would support lower RPMs and the torque you want. V belts and ribbed or cogged belts have advantages for this application.
The ST22N is a 20A switch. Based on the data sheet for the motor controller, it should work for reversing the polarity of the motor leads as long as you used the main controller switch to turn the motor on and off before changing direction. The data sheet states you can reverse direction by reversing the armature leads. You would not have the braking function given by the FBR kit they offer.
Sorry to be late to the party on this one but, the ST22N is good up to 7 ampere at 30 VDC according to the manufactures data sheet. Don't know what the max amperage on the fwd/brake/reverse switch would be. If it is handling circuit control signals it might be good, but if it is switching the actual drive voltages that would be completely different.
Very nicely presented What size PMDC motor replaced the AC..? Any issues with your controllers..? What controller model are you happiest with...? Love the Walker turner... got a buffalo that could use this conversion as well as a 15x50 cohlchester.
You are not wrong. With full voltage the motor will run at it's maximum speed then as load is applied the motor will slow down, current will go up and torque is increased in proportion to current. The issue with speed control is that you lower the equivalent voltage to make the motor go slow so the available current to create torque is reduced. The electronic speed controls will monitor the current and increase the equivalent (i.e Pulse With Modulation) voltage to compensate for load. That is the purpose of the resistor sized dependent on motor HP. It will allow the controller to up the voltage/current to increase torque as you put load on the motor. I put one an an atlas lathe and it worked GREAT.
Same here. There are DC motors on treadmills because they have to get rolling at low speed with the weight of a lard-arse human (eg me) standing on the belt.
I think you may be thinking of a series wound DC motor, like a car starter. I believe he said his was a permanent magnet type, which as far as I know, have a flat torque amount from the lowest to highest speeds. Maybe tailing off on torque a bit , if you run the speed up fast enough.
The capacitor start isn't really giving an extra oomph. It's creating a phase shift for the starter winding to get the motor past the dead spots and set the running direction. The motor will start without a capacitor if you give it a slight nudge in the correct direction, but that's just to get it past the first dead spot. The motor can start on its own if lightly loaded and it didn't stop on a dead spot (two for two-pole motors, four for four-pole), but the direction will be random.
Looks to me that you could use both of the motor pulleys - the top 3" pulley seems to line up nicely with the second-from-top pulley on the drill? This would give you a 'high' range to accompany your new 'low' range of speeds, on those rare occasions when higher speeds would be of use, such as a woodworking project? Just a thought...
DC motors are at full torque as soon as the shaft starts to turn. That's why locomotives are diesel, (to generate electricity) over eletrical, (to turn the drive shaft(s). For a long time ships were diesel over eletrical for the same reason. Ya yak to much. It's called re-relevant details. It's worse when ya include a long back story. But you're a hard working and conceinsus guy and problely a journeyman craftsman. Keep in touch and keep up the good work.
Nice job Mr Pete. So will motor be taking more rotiolal torque under load? Which makes me worried about only two small screws holding motor to your cast motor base, that are also holding it vertical as well.
I noticed that your old motor is rated at 725 rpm,so with the dc motor at less than half speed you will equal the original spindle speed of the old set up ,so you will be in the lower end of the speed range.Just a note on tapping: I would not recommend it,as a dc motor has to stop before reversing and coast to a stop which will make it a bit tricky to avoid going too deep. That is one reason VFDs are used as they can be immediately switched to reverse and most of them have a built in electronic brake which works great for tapping.All in all another interesting video as usual.
At 8.32 it is very clear that it is 725,surprised me ,what may look like a (1) is just a scratch.I had to go back and look closely,but there is no(1) embossed there
I see it at 6:32, not 8:32. There is a faint line there and I believe the motor is 1,725 RPM. Tubalcain please clarify. I have often seen nameplates poorly stamped on older motors.
I've wondered about mounting a motor on the same axis as the drill spindle. Is there a mechanical device that could protect the motor from damage if the drill jams in the work? Would an electrical shut off be a better solution? Thats one of the advantages of a belt drive. Perhaps joining the shafts with a hard rubber linkage would absorb mechanical shocks and electrical shutoff via electronic detection would prevent overheating in the motor when there is a jam. I'd love to hear from an engineer on this issue. Is a 'torque limiter' a thing of relevance to this?
I am not an engineer. But this does not sound like a good idea. You will have trouble adjusting the speed. Many electrical motors have a built in overload protector, that can be reset.
Would the final tachometer reading on the head be 40% of the motor speed since it had a 2:5 pulley ratio? Could you put the tach on the motor pulley to see what speeds it's running at?
MR PETE, can you please tell me the stock length of the belt on that drill press? I have the Atlas version and need a belt that will let me change speeds. Thanks!
Could flip the driven pulley, too, if you need to create a certain combo that the mounting doors won't let you reach, before you commit to altering the mounting point...?
Great video. Love the info u give. I have a few DC motors. I used a a few on 2x72 belt grinder I built. And it didn't seem to have much torque under load. DC treadmill motors have a heavy cast pully/disk. I guess the weight of the pulley helps with the torque. Not sure, Wondering if it would have enough torque on my drill press. Any ideas. Thanks love your videos.
Hello Lyle, I am looking to do something similar with my South Bend 14" economy drill press. I'm wondering how this worked for you? It's been about 4 years, so I was wondering if you still have this?
Thanks for sharing this I want to order a DC controller for my DC motor I have aquired of late I'm in the process of building a traveling key way cutter to make shafts I'm thinking direct drive for the cutter and would like to know what you would think or do I need to go with a heavy shaft drive with a motor and transmission in it
Lyle, Just in case someone below hasn't given you the amps the ST22N switch can handle, I'll give what I found about it here. It's capable of 3.000 amps at the maximum voltage rating of 250VAC.
Looking forward to finding the best way to slow down a drill press. I will keep following along as I am interested in doing the same. I have thought about mounting another pulley in the middle like on my Grizzly milling machine. I have a delta wood band saw that need your idea for converting! Great video's thanks for sharing your years of experience and ideas
Get yourself a centrifugal pulley for your motor ; I’ve been using one on my Craftsman Drill press with the same motor setup as you are using for 25 years and can ; with a tap holder in the chuck tap up to 5/8 “ without any problems and up to a 6-1/2” hole saw
Regardless of the amount of torque the motor has, there is no way you are going to be able to run very big holes saws with that little two inch pulley. Maybe you could put the pull gear setup on the DC motor, I think you would really have great setup if you did that. I have a Walker-Turner 20" drill press with an eight pole 1-1/2 HP motor (855 RPM) with an Allen Bradley VFD with around a 2.5:1 reduction. I can run a 4" hole saw with it. The 1-1/2 HP motor has twice the torque of a normal four pole motor of the same horsepower. I left the step pulleys in place in case I might need even more torque by going to the lowest pulleys. I have the VFD setup to go from 15 to 180 HZ, that gives me around 85 -1025 Rpm at the spindle without changing belts.
You don't have to reverse the armature to reverse the motor. Reversing the field does the same thing and that light weight DPDT switch would handle the field current no problem.
If the spindle gets caught on a part and it has a chain/sprocket driving the spindle it could either break your hand or break the sprocket. At least with a pulley if it locks the motor can overcome the friction and just spin the belt. I'd rather ruin a belt than my fingers. Your idea is not without the merit of positive traction on the part, just at a cost. Even if you use clamps it can still cause more damage that necessary.
Thanks for this. There is an alternative circuit available now from China that may be cheaper. I am installing it on a Boxford engineers lathe with a 2.5 HP treadmill motor (at 4700 RPM it draws 8.5 amp at 180 volt DC). It has permanent magnets and brushes. The device is HQ-SXPWM-X for $US57 with free shipping. It uses a 16,000 Hz carrier frequency and turns the power on and off to regulate the average voltage the motor sees ie pulse width modulation (PWM). It has automatic ramp up voltage when starting over 3 seconds and 3 seconds ramp down when turned off. The ramp up is important because the motor only has 2.2 ohms resistance and theoretically could draw 82 amps when 180 volts is applied suddenly. As the motor picks up speed it acts as a generator opposing the input voltage. We will be discussing this on the Boxford Users Group and eventually I will make a TH-cam video for my series (evanecent). I already have a video about wiring a reversing switch for the standard half HP AC capacitor motor on the lathe and it includes a diagram explaining what the capacitor does - for anyone interested.
believe it or not you don't loose torque at low speeds with a dc motor. that and belt changes are why so many people are replacing ac motors for dc motors also your original motor was 1/2 horse the new one is 2hp you'll ahve more power than you know what to do with Make sure you always use a vice bolted to the table. You don't want to spin a part if the drill bit grabs. I believe your switch you had will work on this to change directions but if your going to tap you should look into a tap-O-Matic. Yes Nice old drill press. Worth its weight in gold now.
FYI - The switch ST22N Maximum Voltage Rating In Volts 115.0 ac and 125.0 dc Contact Load Current Rating At Maximum Rated Voltage 1.000 amperes resistive ac and 1.000 amperes inductive dc and 1.000 amperes resistive dc and 1.000 amperes inductive ac Test Data Document 81349-mil-dtl-83731 specification (includes engineering type bulletins, brochures,etc., that reflect specification type data in specification format; excludes commercial catalogs, industry directories, and similar trade publications, reflecting general Your welcome.
I can tell you like to tinker, and as someone of the same type, I suggest you get a 3D printer and learn a CAD software for developing your ideas. I have a really decent tool set with a lot of functionality, but none of it even remotely compares to my lowest shelf quality and price 3D printer I picked up in 2017. I was able to reprint the whole machine itself, another printer as well as a light duty CNC that will one day become a plasma table.
If that reversing switch is switching DC current rather than AC then you need to be careful re the switch rating. DC switches tend to arc when the contacts are opened. AC does not have that issue as the voltage drops to zero. This video explains the issue. th-cam.com/video/mQpzwR7wLeo/w-d-xo.html
I actuall instantly considered the “wrap” when you started saying you didn’t like to use the 2 inch pulley. You have taught us well!
Thanks 👍👍
Mr Pete, As usual your videos are very informative and interesting. I have a Walker Turner drill press of the same vintage as yours that I rescued from the scrap yard a few years ago. It has the belt guard, and I was surprised to find that it is cast aluminum not cast iron. Thanks for all the good work you pass on to us. By the way this video was not boring. Bob Auer
Thank you. I guess I am surprised that belt guard is made of aluminum
Great video Mr. Pete. I'm one of those guys with a woodworking bandsaw who needs a metalworking bandsaw, but doesn't have $1500 or so to buy one. Thanks for doing this series.
I remember well, one of my favorite videos, your prony brake. After seeing drawings of them in books since I was a kid, your video make the torque and horsepower explanation come real. Thanks.
Yes thanks
A reverse switch is very handy to have. In case you drill a hole in the wrong spot you can just undrill it! ;)
Or just click the undo button.
Or press backspace 😂😂😂
Reverse is mandatory to be able to use reverse (left hand drill bits) which are super handy for getting broken machine screws out. I have fitted my drill presses with this feature.
DAD Joke!
i guess Im kind of off topic but does anybody know a good website to stream newly released tv shows online ?
Mr. Pete,
Nice video once again. I just this past week installed a 2 1/2 horse DC, 90 volt treadmill motor on my drill press. I used a small ac controller with a bridge rectifier to convert ac to dc. It works to my satisfaction getting the rpm down to 70 at the slowest speed. I drilled a 2 1/4 in hole in quarter inch mild steel plate with a Lennox hole saw. It had plenty of torque at slow speed and had no noticeable belt slippage and I watched for both very carefully. I used plenty of oil for lubricant and I checked the heat of the hole saw frequently just by touching it. It was hot but not overly so. Also it took awhile to cut the hole but the controller didn’t develop any noticeable heat. It does have heat sinks, however. That always a necessity with a bridge rectifier as the diodes in them will quickly burn out if the heat isn’t quickly dissipated.
Again, another first quality video. Thanks.
Dale from Decatur
Thanks
Definitely looking forward to the speed and torque tests. Especially looking forward to the Bandsaw variations and testing. Thanks Mr. Pete!
Thanks
I have just learned more about motors from your goodself in 5 minutes than I knew before.
Thanks
Always interesting topics. Thanks for explaining everything so well.
Thanks
Thank you Mr Pete.
I like the idea of slowing down that band saw for metal cutting. I may give that a try my self. Thanks
Yes thanks
A couple notes. DC motors should have high torque at low speeds especially compared to AC motor controlled by a VFD. I've converted a few machine tools for this exact reason. Also, there are seemingly four adjustable pots on the dc drive board. Some have six. The four that are apparent on your drive are Min speed, Max speed, Current Limit and IR ( compensating voltage required to keep the motor speed constant with varying loads ). You may need to adjust these to calibrate your application. I have a very rare version of the Walker Turner drill press (1939) that is missing the factory switch. If your ditching yours I would trade you for the reversing switch you need for the dc drive. The switch you require needs to operate as follows: when switched between the Forward and Reverse positions, the blocked center position causes a delay which protects the DC drive from any voltage that may be on the motor armature terminals. I would imagine that if you quickly flipped a standard switch between F and R that you could damage the motor and/or drive.
Thanks for the offer, I want to keep that switch for when I converted back to original. I do need to play around with those pots. To try and increase the torque. But actually I am moving ahead and installing a VFD given to me by a viewer. Remember these are all experiments
With a vector type VFD, AC motors will have very high starting torque. If you go cheaper with sensorless vector, not so much. If you go with an encoder on a vector drive...look out.
Great point and a great solution for higher end budgets or machinery. mrpete222 bought the drill press for $135 some time ago and its a drill press! I might also add that in a tapping application, AC drive/motor setups would be superior for 1: The deccel / accel parameters are very adjustable , and 2: Flip an external programmed fwd/rev switch and back that tap out fast. Many ways to drill holes. For low cost solutions either AC or DC I use automation direct. Not a plug, I have just had great experience with them.
Thanks for the reply. I have been on the search forever for an original switch/housing. I would like to restore my drill press as it is very rare (in exceptional shape and dates to 1939 as it has a face plate/logo only used that year and the rare ship wheel down feed handle). No factory switch unfortunately. If you could cast me one from the original I would really appreciate your work. In exchange; I have a lot of surplus old stuff to sweeten the deal! You could make another fantastic video of the process!!! Please PM to discuss further. Again, I would really appreciate your assistance and knowledge.
I have seen a spectacular failure of a DC servomotor drive when direction was abruptly changed. Blew transistors through a drywall. But in this case abrupt direction change was a requirement. Back to the design board.
Great series Mr. Pete, I'm waiting for Tips #500 on how to install a Hydra-Matic in a 50 Olds without a jack. Wow that thing was a lot of cast iron and that enclosed drive shaft was a piece of work too. My respect, please don't hurt yourself.
lol
Mr Pete I can't believe it's been 5 years since that video I remember it well thanks
Thanks
i just swapped a motor on my drill press, and holding it up is a problem, until i realized you can just rotate the table around to the back and use it to raise the motor and hold it steady
while you install the bolts.
I'd have to move mine away from the wall but that's a great tip!
Thank you, good idea
That's a great idea ... but only if you ever got around to bolting the base to the floor...
@@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC Just put a counter weight on it like 5 gallon's of paint. or a 5 gallon homer bucket full of water. handy if you need to cool a part too.
The capacitor creates a phase delay to inducing a magnetic flux to initiate the rotation
Wow thats clever
Thanks for the video, I enjoy all of them.
I'm interested in putting this setup on my vintage 1950's Beaver drill press......looking forward to the next in this series
Thanks
The capacitor on an AC induction motor isn't there to "store up" energy to give extra power to start the motor. That would not work with AC (unless you had active electronics). It's needed because induction motors don't have a bias in either direction if they are not already rotating. If you disconnect the start winding and turn it on, it will just sit there (and overheat). If you give the shaft a turn manually it will continue in that direction and speed up to it's normal speed. Adding a start winding that is rotated 90° relative to the main winding creates a bias and makes it self-starting. It solves the same problem of how a single cylinder steam engine isn't self starting, but adding a 2nd cylinder (offset by 90°) ensures that it is. It's not strictly necessary (with motors that have a centrifugal switch), but the capacitor effectively 'delays' the AC waveform feeding the start winding giving it more of a directional bias for greater starting torque.
^^Single phase induction motors. Multi-phase induction motors develop a rotating field by default.
You can speak German or French Mr Pete. You can do anything, your videos prove that.
Thanks
I have a drill press that looks just like that one. The name plate is missing on mine. My dad gave it to me about 25 years ago when I was in my 40's and he said he found it out in a field. He cleaned it up and it looks like yours now. He said he didn't need more than 1 drill press. He passed away 6 years ago and now I have more than 1 drill press. Amazing it was not all rusted and pitted when he found it. He said he found it a few years before he gave it to me. I think they are about 60 to 75 years old now. I am going to put a 3 phase motor and VFD on it and see how that works. Mine also has a very unique table with built in vise.
You will soon see mine with a VFD as well
Nice job. I have an old Canadian Drill press #15 with Cap Start. @ 1750 rpm speeds on 5 step pulley are 6,300, 3,400, 1,725, 900, and 400 RPM. Made in Kitchener ON Canada. Jacob's 1/2" chuck.
Using an appropriate 3" clamp and some Uni-Strut and plywood, I made a small platform to keep my Drill Press Vice on. Make sure it cannot vibrate off. Thank you safety boots!
I only wish it had a gear drive to raise the Drill Platform. It has been converted to a Floor vice from a Bench Vise. Likely made in the 1950's. When you need a drill press, nothing else will do. I note that the decal indicated to come to full stop before reversing if you install that function.
Thanks
Great video Mr. Pete, wish I had a motor like that for my old Sears drill press.
As always, a great video! As for not having full speed at the spindle, I believe it's because of the step up from the small pulley at the motor to the larger pulley at the drill.
Thanks
Love your videos, very informative, educational and well done..... well beyond the common bla bla bla. Thank you. I had learned a lot from you.
Thank you for watching
Thank you Sir, I enjoy all of your content!
Thanks
Another good video.
Interesting information about DC motors.
Thanks.
Thanks
Very enjoyable Saturday morning viewing! Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Thanks
Awesome set up!
I changed my drill press and bandsaw to D.C. Drive treadmill motors many years ago. Also tap with my drill press. You would be surprised at the torture at the low speed on these drives. Will try to send pictures.
Good move
Hi mrpete, good modification in order to get decent lower speed to work with bigger drill bits, looking forward to see how it delivers the expected results.
If my memory serves me well there is a min/max setting for output volts, and, possibly for constant torque function, just from memory, though...
I only an adorable acccent when I speak English, though... lol
Thanks for the mention... ;)
Hi pierre. I'm still disappointed with the results. We'll see what happens when I use the VFD that Palmer gave me
Have you ever noticed that heavy duty drills don't have a break but the battery powered ones do always wondered why you cant get a brake as an option on a drill. Reminded me when there was a brake switch on the control box. I think the hole hawgs and other corded hand helds should have a brake for those times when they get into trouble but would be hard on the motor and gears I guess.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
I have no good answer for that
I believe the DC motors in the cordless drills just short the motor leads to get the braking effect... This doesn't work with AC motors.
(Not an electrician, just learned this tidbit playing with DC actuators)
your new delta-ki name is transmission jack(hope you where using guide bolts cut some all-thread off thread em in and it'll funnel er on to the dowels tighten the bolts down enough to get the converter pilot engaged it the crank then as you tighten them down make sure the converter still spins if not the pump drive gear is installed backwards or the drive tangs ar'nt engaged in the converter spinning while finish tightening usually solves that problem though) gonna love the tach install gonna check out pierre's love his starrett 98 level adjust vid thanks mr pete
Here's what I did to reduce speeds on a WT drill press. I placed another multiple diameter pulley motor on the wall behind the press and use the regular motor only as a reduction pulley holder. The secondary belt runs on the smallest pulley on motor #2 to the largest pulley on motor #1. Then, the original belt is placed on the smallest groove on motor #1 and the largest on the press pulley. The result is that I can get speeds down to 300 RPM.
It works like a champ. I hope that makes sense.
That sounds like an excellent solution
Very nice and informative Mr Pete. I have a jet verdion of the same bandsaw, I converted it to a metal cutting saw with pully's and belts. Wish I would have found a dc motor like yours, it would hafe been easier.
Yes thanks
I have a KB on my South Bend. Love it. Good series. Thanks.
👍👍
I'm adding a 1 1/2 pmdc to my lathe with a variac and full bridge. Just no load tested today and was impressed with smooth speed changes and no annoying circuit sounds...if I can keep things from frying I will do a drill press as well.
I may add a smaller PMDC motor just for oil pump duty. And save the 1 1/2 for just taking those cuts. If 2 hp AC can take 0.10 cuts then I'm sure the DC will be more than torquey enough....this will be one Frankenstein lathe for sure....
re: the alignment of the pulley sheaves, I believe it is called "coplaner"; when I word fumble I just say "it's optimized", that dazzles my audience who never pesters me afterwards for the correct term. ☺
Thank you, that's a good word
I was thinking the words were that they had to be in plane, but your word, coplanar is correct
You could build a H bridge with 4 appropriately rated relays or transistors to reverse the direction of rotation, then any old SPDT switch could be used, finding a high current/voltage switch might be less painful though.
I just got my "big" Chinese drill press running, the seller had replaced the capacitor with a 150uF part (it has a PSC motor, the one capacitor is the start capacitor and the run capacitor, no switch involved or required) so it had very low torque and got very hot, eventually I got a 20uF part from him and now it works great, noisy and rattly but plenty of torque and runs cool. It has three pulleys and two belts and is super annoying to change speeds.
Big DC motors here in Australia are pretty uncommon for some reason, but a 3 phase replacement with a VFD would be nice to have.
I recently came into possession of a Sears Companion drill press. Smaller but very similar looking. I'd like to make a slow speed pulley addition. Used they cost more than the drill press is worth.
Yes, I'm afraid you're right
If you could put a pair of pulleys between the existing shafts, spindles and pulleys, you could get the RPM down lower while keeping some decent 'wrap'. Perhaps a synchronous belt and pulleys or a chain and sprockets would support lower RPMs and the torque you want. V belts and ribbed or cogged belts have advantages for this application.
The ST22N is a 20A switch. Based on the data sheet for the motor controller, it should work for reversing the polarity of the motor leads as long as you used the main controller switch to turn the motor on and off before changing direction. The data sheet states you can reverse direction by reversing the armature leads. You would not have the braking function given by the FBR kit they offer.
Thanks
Sorry to be late to the party on this one but, the ST22N is good up to 7 ampere at 30 VDC according to the manufactures data sheet. Don't know what the max amperage on the fwd/brake/reverse switch would be. If it is handling circuit control signals it might be good, but if it is switching the actual drive voltages that would be completely different.
Can't wait for the hole saw test.
Yes
Very nicely presented
What size PMDC motor replaced the AC..?
Any issues with your controllers..?
What controller model are you happiest with...?
Love the Walker turner... got a buffalo that could use this conversion as well as a 15x50 cohlchester.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought DC motors produced quite high torque at slow speed.
I did too. But it did not work out that way in real life
You are not wrong. With full voltage the motor will run at it's maximum speed then as load is applied the motor will slow down, current will go up and torque is increased in proportion to current.
The issue with speed control is that you lower the equivalent voltage to make the motor go slow so the available current to create torque is reduced. The electronic speed controls will monitor the current and increase the equivalent (i.e Pulse With Modulation) voltage to compensate for load. That is the purpose of the resistor sized dependent on motor HP. It will allow the controller to up the voltage/current to increase torque as you put load on the motor. I put one an an atlas lathe and it worked GREAT.
Same here. There are DC motors on treadmills because they have to get rolling at low speed with the weight of a lard-arse human (eg me) standing on the belt.
I think you may be thinking of a series wound DC motor, like a car starter. I believe he said his was a permanent magnet type, which as far as I know, have a flat torque amount from the lowest to highest speeds.
Maybe tailing off on torque a bit , if you run the speed up fast enough.
Especially series wound DC motors. E.g. old starter motors.
When I was young my first Car was a 1942 Oldsmoble with a hydromatic trans.
Wow, and they did not make many cars that year
The capacitor start isn't really giving an extra oomph. It's creating a phase shift for the starter winding to get the motor past the dead spots and set the running direction.
The motor will start without a capacitor if you give it a slight nudge in the correct direction, but that's just to get it past the first dead spot. The motor can start on its own if lightly loaded and it didn't stop on a dead spot (two for two-pole motors, four for four-pole), but the direction will be random.
Thank you for the video
All of these DC MOTOR conversions videos always the installation, but does it work under load?
Looks to me that you could use both of the motor pulleys - the top 3" pulley seems to line up nicely with the second-from-top pulley on the drill? This would give you a 'high' range to accompany your new 'low' range of speeds, on those rare occasions when higher speeds would be of use, such as a woodworking project? Just a thought...
Good idea
Great video as usual :). If you ever have to change that belt, a link belt might be a better alternative than taking the thing apart.
Thanks
DC motors are at full torque as soon as the shaft starts to turn. That's why locomotives are diesel, (to generate electricity) over eletrical, (to turn the drive shaft(s). For a long time ships were diesel over eletrical for the same reason.
Ya yak to much. It's called re-relevant details. It's worse when ya include a long back story. But you're a hard working and conceinsus guy and problely a journeyman craftsman. Keep in touch and keep up the good work.
Nice job Mr Pete. So will motor be taking more rotiolal torque under load? Which makes me worried about only two small screws holding motor to your cast motor base, that are also holding it vertical as well.
That's very true, but they made thousands of them in that manner
I noticed that your old motor is rated at 725 rpm,so with the dc motor at less than half speed you will equal the original spindle speed of the old set up ,so you will be in the lower end of the speed range.Just a note on tapping: I would not recommend it,as a dc motor has to stop before reversing and coast to a stop which will make it a bit tricky to avoid going too deep. That is one reason VFDs are used as they can be immediately switched to reverse and most of them have a built in electronic brake which works great for tapping.All in all another interesting video as usual.
Thank you, that's a good point. And upcoming video will feature a VFD
It wasn't that visible, but the AC motor is 1,725 RPM on the tag. Typical.
At 8.32 it is very clear that it is 725,surprised me ,what may look like a (1) is just a scratch.I had to go back and look closely,but there is no(1) embossed there
I see it at 6:32, not 8:32. There is a faint line there and I believe the motor is 1,725 RPM.
Tubalcain please clarify. I have often seen nameplates poorly stamped on older motors.
The line shows clearly on my 75" Samsung. Very unusual if it is in fact 725 RPM.
I've wondered about mounting a motor on the same axis as the drill spindle. Is there a mechanical device that could protect the motor from damage if the drill jams in the work? Would an electrical shut off be a better solution? Thats one of the advantages of a belt drive. Perhaps joining the shafts with a hard rubber linkage would absorb mechanical shocks and electrical shutoff via electronic detection would prevent overheating in the motor when there is a jam. I'd love to hear from an engineer on this issue. Is a 'torque limiter' a thing of relevance to this?
I am not an engineer. But this does not sound like a good idea. You will have trouble adjusting the speed. Many electrical motors have a built in overload protector, that can be reset.
@@mrpete222 Thank you and such a delight to get your reply. Long time fan.
Would the final tachometer reading on the head be 40% of the motor speed since it had a 2:5 pulley ratio? Could you put the tach on the motor pulley to see what speeds it's running at?
What is your recommendation for another motor/VFD combo able to deliver additional torque at low speeds?
Capacitor start motors often benefit from a brand new capacitor 😂 Like everything they wear out 😜
Good video!
Thanks
I have the exact same tachometer and get erroneous reads with the reflective tape used also. I tossed mine in my “Amazon Junk” box!
I think you are totally right
MR PETE, can you please tell me the stock length of the belt on that drill press? I have the Atlas version and need a belt that will let me change speeds. Thanks!
good afternoon mrpete can you please share the specifications on the baldor motor
Found the Baldor motor info on a previous video
Since you've run out of adjustment in the mounting slots, can you flip the current motor pulley so the larger diameter is on the bottom ?
Probably
Could flip the driven pulley, too, if you need to create a certain combo that the mounting doors won't let you reach, before you commit to altering the mounting point...?
Switch ST22N 115VAC/125VDC 1A
Thanks
Great video. Love the info u give. I have a few DC motors. I used a a few on 2x72 belt grinder I built. And it didn't seem to have much torque under load. DC treadmill motors have a heavy cast pully/disk. I guess the weight of the pulley helps with the torque. Not sure, Wondering if it would have enough torque on my drill press. Any ideas. Thanks love your videos.
No, I am still experimenting
Hello Lyle, I am looking to do something similar with my South Bend 14" economy drill press. I'm wondering how this worked for you? It's been about 4 years, so I was wondering if you still have this?
Did not work out. No torque on low speed. I went back to an AC motor with a VFD.
Thanks for sharing this I want to order a DC controller for my DC motor I have aquired of late I'm in the process of building a traveling key way cutter to make shafts I'm thinking direct drive for the cutter and would like to know what you would think or do I need to go with a heavy shaft drive with a motor and transmission in it
I think you have to go with a very heavy duty route
What are the pros and cons of DC motor drives versus VFD systems?
Good video good luck
Thanks mike
You beat me waking up this morning
(Of course I’m a hour behind)
Hi would a 1hp 3phase rpm 1720 work thks
can you put turn the mount on the drill press upside down ? the slots mite be lower from the looks of it.
Good idea, never thought of it
Lyle, Just in case someone below hasn't given you the amps the ST22N switch can handle, I'll give what I found about it here. It's capable of 3.000 amps at the maximum voltage rating of 250VAC.
Thanks
Put the reverse switch on as a foot switch, you will be glad you did.
Good idea
Looking forward to finding the best way to slow down a drill press. I will keep following along as I am interested in doing the same. I have thought about mounting another pulley in the middle like on my Grizzly milling machine. I have a delta wood band saw that need your idea for converting! Great video's thanks for sharing your years of experience and ideas
Thanks
Could use a link belt to aviod disassembling the front
Yes
Get yourself a centrifugal pulley for your motor ; I’ve been using one on my Craftsman Drill press with the same motor setup as you are using for 25 years and can ; with a tap holder in the chuck tap up to 5/8 “ without any problems and up to a 6-1/2” hole saw
Thank you, that's a good idea
That ST22N switch is rated 250v AC/DC 3A or 125v AC/DC 6A.
Thanks
Regardless of the amount of torque the motor has, there is no way you are going to be
able to run very big holes saws with that little two inch pulley.
Maybe you could put the pull gear setup on the DC motor, I think you would really have great setup if you did that. I have a Walker-Turner 20" drill press with an eight pole 1-1/2 HP motor (855 RPM) with an Allen Bradley VFD with around a 2.5:1 reduction. I can run a 4" hole saw with it. The 1-1/2 HP motor has twice the torque of a normal four pole motor of the same horsepower. I left the step pulleys in place in case I might need even more torque by going
to the lowest pulleys. I have the VFD setup to go from 15 to 180 HZ, that gives me around
85 -1025 Rpm at the spindle without changing belts.
Awesome, I think you have the right combination.
You don't have to reverse the armature to reverse the motor. Reversing the field does the same thing and that light weight DPDT switch would handle the field current no problem.
Thanks
Why couldn't you use a chain and sprockets to drive the drill press from the motor?
If the spindle gets caught on a part and it has a chain/sprocket driving the spindle it could either break your hand or break the sprocket. At least with a pulley if it locks the motor can overcome the friction and just spin the belt. I'd rather ruin a belt than my fingers. Your idea is not without the merit of positive traction on the part, just at a cost. Even if you use clamps it can still cause more damage that necessary.
Cogged belt would work better for this application, run much smoother too.
The belt guard was probably an optional purchase on that drill press.
Maybe you are right
Thanks for this. There is an alternative circuit available now from China that may be cheaper. I am installing it on a Boxford engineers lathe with a 2.5 HP treadmill motor (at 4700 RPM it draws 8.5 amp at 180 volt DC). It has permanent magnets and brushes.
The device is HQ-SXPWM-X for $US57 with free shipping. It uses a 16,000 Hz carrier frequency and turns the power on and off to regulate the average voltage the motor sees ie pulse width modulation (PWM).
It has automatic ramp up voltage when starting over 3 seconds and 3 seconds ramp down when turned off. The ramp up is important because the motor only has 2.2 ohms resistance and theoretically could draw 82 amps when 180 volts is applied suddenly. As the motor picks up speed it acts as a generator opposing the input voltage.
We will be discussing this on the Boxford Users Group and eventually I will make a TH-cam video for my series (evanecent). I already have a video about wiring a reversing switch for the standard half HP AC capacitor motor on the lathe and it includes a diagram explaining what the capacitor does - for anyone interested.
Thanks
Thanks for sharing sir...
Thanks
believe it or not you don't loose torque at low speeds with a dc motor. that and belt changes are why so many people are replacing ac motors for dc motors also your original motor was 1/2 horse the new one is 2hp you'll ahve more power than you know what to do with Make sure you always use a vice bolted to the table. You don't want to spin a part if the drill bit grabs.
I believe your switch you had will work on this to change directions but if your going to tap you should look into a
tap-O-Matic. Yes Nice old drill press. Worth its weight in gold now.
Isn't the point of using a DC motor,was to keep the hp.at all rpms.or would it just be better to use a 3 phase motor with a VFD?
I will be using a three phase motor with a VFD very soon
To get better torque just flip over the duel pulley on the shaft of the DC motor.
Thanks
I wanna hear about this attic man
50/60hz pulley?
It's a DC motor, Hertz is not involved as far as speeds are concerned.
MrJohnnaz yep I know. But maybe it was moved to it from a different motor. Seems likely for the type of two speed pulley. Just guessing.
That switch is rated for 1a at 120v.
Then it won't last long
why didn't someone tell pet,to put a flywheel on the DC motor,,it worked on my turner drill
Pete don't think I can wait ,,,,lol
Yes thanks
FYI - The switch ST22N
Maximum Voltage Rating In Volts
115.0 ac and 125.0 dc
Contact Load Current Rating At Maximum Rated Voltage
1.000 amperes resistive ac and 1.000 amperes inductive dc and 1.000 amperes resistive dc and 1.000 amperes inductive ac
Test Data Document
81349-mil-dtl-83731 specification (includes engineering type bulletins, brochures,etc., that reflect specification type data in specification format; excludes commercial catalogs, industry directories, and similar trade publications, reflecting general
Your welcome.
Sorry, you just lost me
Remove bearings? Lose the v-belt... I cut them off & use Power Twist Plus Link V-Belts (red or green)...
Thanks
This may be your toggle switch at 3:18 - hope it helps www.lintechcomponents.com/product/006551508/ST22N/31356
Thanks
My DC drill press has no shortage of torque. :-)
Mine does?
Brian your DC motor looks like it came out of a crane or a ship! Mr Petes, not so much.. 😀😀
I can tell you like to tinker, and as someone of the same type, I suggest you get a 3D printer and learn a CAD software for developing your ideas. I have a really decent tool set with a lot of functionality, but none of it even remotely compares to my lowest shelf quality and price 3D printer I picked up in 2017. I was able to reprint the whole machine itself, another printer as well as a light duty CNC that will one day become a plasma table.
I own a 3-D printer. Several videos on my channel concerning that
If u Google that number it may have the specs
greeting sir!
Thanks
If that reversing switch is switching DC current rather than AC then you need to be careful re the switch rating. DC switches tend to arc when the contacts are opened. AC does not have that issue as the voltage drops to zero. This video explains the issue. th-cam.com/video/mQpzwR7wLeo/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the information. I do install that reversing a switch in the next video. And it worked great
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