The bringing together of all key interests on all sides of a subject seems to always bring amazing results when all sides are heard calmly and fairly. Sometimes, even, one side can see a way that the other side can be enhanced by the actions of yet another side which again leads to a tweak in how the first side does something and then benefits all in ways no one thought possible. Who would have thought that all sides working together could be a concept?
At the end of the day, without wild apex predators we will NEVER get a good handle on deer numbers or feeding behaviours. Stalking can play a role, particularly in lowering numbers. But it's arrogant to think they could ever fulfil the same role as a wild apex predator that has co-evolved with deer. Working not just with stalkers, but with wolves and lynx is the only way we will see true landscape-scale change.
We have not had this conflict in an extreme form in the Arnside Silverdale National Landscape and we had an excellent explanation of one of the reasons why this is so at a BDS stalkers evening last week.
The issue is habitat destruction and there are two very simple fixes to this. First, remove the almost 7 million sheep from Scotland, deer numbers are roughly just 10% of this, yet deer get the blame..... Not forgetting the subsidies the sheep farmers get to ruin the landscapes. Second, the issue with the deer is overgrazing because a lack of movement. This is fixed by moving the deer on with groups of hikers and fell runners. Deer are native and sentient beings that do not want to die, those who shoot them will never take the same deer a predator would, they can and do miss their shots and venison is a red meat which is classed as a group 2a carcinogen. There are alternatives, but we won't pursue them because people will lose money over it which shows that the environment isn't truly their primary concern.
I agree about the sheep but not about hikers moving on deer. It will take a lot more than that to move deer in a way that benefits the landscape ie a natural predator. You also mention venison being a carcinogen - I’m not sure why that is relevant? If you want to go down that route then you might want to consider that lots of non-meat products ie oats, wheat, veggies etc contain glyphosate, which I’m sure you’re aware of is also a Group 2a carcinogen?
@@THE_ECONNORGIST eating deer is always used as an angle to continue shooting them. There is no evidence to suggest that oats, wheat and veggies are carcinogenic, Cancer Research UK, WHO, UN, USFDA, etc. Not one of those state anywhere that what you said is true, as per, typical anti-vegan and nutrition mis-information from the pro animal-consumers. Wholegrains in general are shown in the consensus of research to have positive health effects, including on digestion and cardiovascular health. Oats in particular have benefits for blood cholesterol levels, being rich in the soluble fibre beta-glucan, which has been shown to lower harmful LDL cholesterol levels. There's no good evidence to support the idea that oats are damaging to health. Oats are an affordable, nutritious food and can absolutely be part of a balanced, healthy diet.
The bringing together of all key interests on all sides of a subject seems to always bring amazing results when all sides are heard calmly and fairly. Sometimes, even, one side can see a way that the other side can be enhanced by the actions of yet another side which again leads to a tweak in how the first side does something and then benefits all in ways no one thought possible. Who would have thought that all sides working together could be a concept?
At the end of the day, without wild apex predators we will NEVER get a good handle on deer numbers or feeding behaviours. Stalking can play a role, particularly in lowering numbers. But it's arrogant to think they could ever fulfil the same role as a wild apex predator that has co-evolved with deer. Working not just with stalkers, but with wolves and lynx is the only way we will see true landscape-scale change.
We have not had this conflict in an extreme form in the Arnside Silverdale National Landscape and we had an excellent explanation of one of the reasons why this is so at a BDS stalkers evening last week.
We need so much more of this, rather than the polarisation we too often see.
The issue is habitat destruction and there are two very simple fixes to this. First, remove the almost 7 million sheep from Scotland, deer numbers are roughly just 10% of this, yet deer get the blame..... Not forgetting the subsidies the sheep farmers get to ruin the landscapes. Second, the issue with the deer is overgrazing because a lack of movement. This is fixed by moving the deer on with groups of hikers and fell runners. Deer are native and sentient beings that do not want to die, those who shoot them will never take the same deer a predator would, they can and do miss their shots and venison is a red meat which is classed as a group 2a carcinogen. There are alternatives, but we won't pursue them because people will lose money over it which shows that the environment isn't truly their primary concern.
I agree about the sheep but not about hikers moving on deer. It will take a lot more than that to move deer in a way that benefits the landscape ie a natural predator. You also mention venison being a carcinogen - I’m not sure why that is relevant? If you want to go down that route then you might want to consider that lots of non-meat products ie oats, wheat, veggies etc contain glyphosate, which I’m sure you’re aware of is also a Group 2a carcinogen?
@@THE_ECONNORGIST eating deer is always used as an angle to continue shooting them.
There is no evidence to suggest that oats, wheat and veggies are carcinogenic, Cancer Research UK, WHO, UN, USFDA, etc. Not one of those state anywhere that what you said is true, as per, typical anti-vegan and nutrition mis-information from the pro animal-consumers.
Wholegrains in general are shown in the consensus of research to have positive health effects, including on digestion and cardiovascular health.
Oats in particular have benefits for blood cholesterol levels, being rich in the soluble fibre beta-glucan, which has been shown to lower harmful LDL cholesterol levels.
There's no good evidence to support the idea that oats are damaging to health. Oats are an affordable, nutritious food and can absolutely be part of a balanced, healthy diet.
Mmmmm venison