我喺美國做左 software engineer 已經差不多卅年，見過唔少中國嘅 developer，佢哋好怕冇面，唔敢問問題，cannot think out of a box, 換句話說，比份野佢做，如果有咩唔清楚都唔會提出問題或建議，好多時會捨膊叫人幫手做，唔識都話識，會議上非常之靜，唔會提問題，亦冇建議，要得登 follow up 問佢先知道有冇 feed back。非常被動，叫D做D，唔叫唔做，做完又唔做測試，我哋實施 test driven development, 成日唔做測試就 send 去 QA。Documentation 文法非常弱。太不成氣候。
@@trumanh1453 I am not talking about the Chinese American software engineer who are educated and trained here in the US. I am talking about the China trained/educated Chinese software engineers who are now in the US. Indian contractors perform far greater than the Chinese ones.
@@wellseewho Their problems are closely related to their education that focus only on the technical details but neglect all other aspects of software engineering. Their irresponsible behavior and passive attitude may be fostered by the hit and run business common in mainland China.
I really respect your attitude in learning news stuff and dig deep, I was in computer industry back in the early 80s, your interruption in application software vs operations software has done a job in explaining to general public. IBM did outsource to India programmers to build the os back in the 80s.
The fact that most software houses in china care little about, 1.standards 2.documentations 3.methodoloy 4.auditabitily Of their software products Making them impossible to maintain.
Chinese culture is to spend no money on anything. For example, there isn't any Chinese software language. Because it doesn't make money. Hence Chinese don't have expertise in fundamentals.
@@kangking5460 Android母公司是google, google在系統研發初期購買Android就已經有影響全球的搜尋引擎作爲公司基礎。華爲有什麽能夠向google search媲美的？而且2005年智能手機才剛起步，現今已經完全成熟化的情況下才研發根本就是無法理解的行爲。如果只是作爲國產手機系統使用, 市場有一定局限，就連小米oppo這向海外開拓市場的手機願不願意使用華爲系統都是問題。除非有革命性的設計或功能，but I doubt it. It's pretty hard to see the big picture if you have such a small screen.
Mr. Siu, I want to point out two cases that might answer the questions you raised in your series. There were twenty years ago when the CAD industry wanted to change from 2D to 3D, the industry came together and formed the Intellicad consortium. They formed a basic 3D cad platform so that everybody is free to download. This is an open software that enabled the developers to add their feathers to it. I had also downloaded a copy too. I think I saw a Chinese company and a Hong Kong company are also part of the consortium. SolidWorks and Cadopia are part of the consortium as well. There is no reason why that Chinese company can not develop that CAD as well as AutoCAD, may not be suppressed SolidWorks. I also saw one of the Taiwanese chipmakers used it to make the drawing of the prototype of the chip. My friend made the prototype of the IC from AutoCad as well. I think you are right, It is part of the steals and uses culture.
COMMUNICATION! COMMUNICATION! You are absolutely correct, a system with sufficient communication is the key to success. CCP mentality: withholding knowledge (due to insecurity and low self-esteem), and lack (and unwillingness) of communication (non-existence of an unified system) = FAILURE
報導真實👍分析合情理🙏當然愛聽👍🙏
自己身在海外IT行業，接觸多國文化的程式員。蕭生所講的在我行內觀察的結論很吻合。
本人行內近15年，現任職兩三百人的跨國軟件公司做編程超過十年，產品是某類型工廠的管理程式，全球市接率也很大，軟件非常專業和複雜。過去幾年最多中印巴程式員入職。其實中印巴三面，我發覺程式員都不大用編程追求程式改進加有熱誠。中那些傾向找第三方程式可用就用，很多時不被容許，他們不見得不喜歡編程，只是認為優化程式是浪費時間，同時很積極擴展自己職能。印主張所有細節99%被設計人清楚記錄低才開始編程，會令願花很長時間討論同記錄針對軟件功能上細節。我懂得巴裔大多靠編程做踏腳石升職，感覺根本不喜歡編程，但很喜歡溝通交流。印巴兩裔都很會說話，而今時今日在英語國家也較容易因此升職。
萧生好野👍👍活到老學到老 係全面客觀的kol👍👍👍💐💐💐
我喺美國做左 software engineer 已經差不多卅年，見過唔少中國嘅 developer，佢哋好怕冇面，唔敢問問題，cannot think out of a box, 換句話說，比份野佢做，如果有咩唔清楚都唔會提出問題或建議，好多時會捨膊叫人幫手做，唔識都話識，會議上非常之靜，唔會提問題，亦冇建議，要得登 follow up 問佢先知道有冇 feed back。非常被動，叫D做D，唔叫唔做，做完又唔做測試，我哋實施 test driven development, 成日唔做測試就 send 去 QA。Documentation 文法非常弱。太不成氣候。
你是說在大陸的developer，還是在美國的華裔developer？
我也接觸過不少大陸的軟件工程師，質素確實非常參差。
在美國的華裔developer，有多少個像Evan You那樣，又高溝通能力、又高技術水平、又可以團隊合作 ?
@@trumanh1453 I am not talking about the Chinese American software engineer who are educated and trained here in the US. I am talking about the China trained/educated Chinese software engineers who are now in the US. Indian contractors perform far greater than the Chinese ones.
@@wellseewho Their problems are closely related to their education that focus only on the technical details but neglect all other aspects of software engineering. Their irresponsible behavior and passive attitude may be fostered by the hit and run business common in mainland China.
分析得非常正確👍好認同👍👍🙏🙏
支持蕭若元！
堅定支持蕭老師，加油。💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻❤️
非常專業分析。
I really respect your attitude in learning news stuff and dig deep, I was in computer industry back in the early 80s, your interruption in application software vs operations software has done a job in explaining to general public. IBM did outsource to India programmers to build the os back in the 80s.
The fact that most software houses in china care little about,
1.standards
2.documentations
3.methodoloy
4.auditabitily
Of their software products
Making them impossible to maintain.
Chinese culture is to spend no money on anything. For example, there isn't any Chinese software language. Because it doesn't make money. Hence Chinese don't have expertise in fundamentals.
IBM also has a lab in Beijing. Not sure if it's still there.
蕭生不如講下華裔軟體工程師，著名的AlphaGo算法研發也有華人做主力，美國頂尖大學裡參加最底層的AI理論研究也有不少是華人主導，只要有好的社會環境華人的科研成就是可以把印度遠遠拋離。
但印度人最犀利是吹水同埋大部分人有MBA學歷，所以美國一流企業CEO印度裔遠比華裔多
長知識 thank you
Support and like Mr Shiu said
老蕭講得好好，好似親自做過一樣👍👍👍我自己經歷過，同你講嘅一模一樣😂16年前，當時要寫套廠用ERP……我不懂技術，但做『組長』，僅負責組織各部門配合……。老細好好笑，不懂裝懂，好大喜功，還妄想進軍軟件業……花了過百萬，連個框架結構都未見影😂😂😂大陸佬，全部都係賊。老細本身又非常非常好笑！
所以強國最好就敝門一家親，最緊要吳駛守規舉，塘水滾塘魚，幾美滿呀！🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
軟件開發這行業，如何了解上一手的程式。幾十年前，留下文字文件是很重要的，可是，要寫出和了解一套文字，來清楚表達開發的軟件，比直接寫和看程式碼困難。很簡單，學習寫操作文字，也是專業能力。寫軟件的人，根本用不上寫文章的專業。行內人的對話，自然有另一套方法。好比茶餐廳的ot, 靚仔等表達方式。今時今日，學新軟件都上TH-cam 看, 少會再看文字了。
優良的軟件公司，應該有一套良好的系統(例如: SEI)，讓開發團隊去開發和維護每一個項目。
其實是有不同的工具(例如:Doxygen)，把程式裏的結構和註解抽出來，變成文件，之後再由technical writer去修改。
是的幾十年前，cobol年代也有了，但有又如何，各施 各法。都現在都未有一套，全世界都一定要用的方法。
思想唔開放, 做乜都冇用, 軟件容易寫, 系統至麻煩.
@@kangking5460 手機系統？別説笑了，華爲被制裁后在海外市場幾乎消失了。
@@kangking5460 手機都賣不出去，搞系統來幹嘛？當然可以賣系統但有沒有人要用就另當別論囖
@@kangking5460 基於是在基礎上創建，抄襲是在基礎上別人的創建中挪用，似乎是你不懂吧！
@@kangking5460 我説是海外市場，也說可以賣系統。你是眼殘還是怎樣？
@@kangking5460 Android母公司是google, google在系統研發初期購買Android就已經有影響全球的搜尋引擎作爲公司基礎。華爲有什麽能夠向google search媲美的？而且2005年智能手機才剛起步，現今已經完全成熟化的情況下才研發根本就是無法理解的行爲。如果只是作爲國產手機系統使用, 市場有一定局限，就連小米oppo這向海外開拓市場的手機願不願意使用華爲系統都是問題。除非有革命性的設計或功能，but I doubt it. It's pretty hard to see the big picture if you have such a small screen.
中國人發展科技的最大障礙，是[不尊重技術人員]。
技術人員的薪酬不如一個銷售員，用外行人管理內行人。
銷售人员工资高不一定是坏事，说明销量好，才有提成高
小小補充：估計蕭生說的文檔是System Analysis and Design （類同起樓前的圖則,BQ......）；Coding 之後其實都需要用文字解釋個Program嘅Logic係點樣行,這些文件是Documentation.
老燒啊, 有邊個國家係飯飯都 No.1 嫁, 如果唔係打貿易戰, 根本係可以各有各做, 你做工業設計軟件叻, 我迷同你買羅, 無問題嫁, 相反, 中國起鐵路叻, 我迷叫你起羅, 一樣道理.
蕭生果然非常努力，可惜只講了 software industry 1/3 的產業。努力啦！人家做了6，70年的工業～邊有抄就可以翻天復地的。
加油
谢谢分享。
Tiktok又米系买人地既。原本vine到musically.
Totally agree.
tech doc 是米國 software 代工的基本要求。唔係出於印度。
寫documentation 條友要好叻好有條理, 因為根本最重要係佢, 有時連個api 都係懷
不只是中國而整個亞洲也不尊重程式人員,被視為整個電腦行業中最低級的人員薪酬也是最低,外國就不是這樣.
码农。
一個政府都吾守法吾守合約吾守規則，何論國民。
最大的差距就是印度可以禁用数以百计的中国公司的APP，中国找不到一款印度公司的APP可以对等的禁用一下。上百倍的差距呀。
@@neutronstar77 呵呵～好歹你也让印度出一款能让大陆人不惜盗版也要用的软件 再来吹不迟～醒醒吧～
@@neutronstar77 多睇和聽多的不同聲音, 老蕭對國際事只小學生level, 每次聽佢講國際事我都會唸老蕭你識吾識野㗎。好似講印度軟件, 印度基本上只是幫美國代工寫APP,佢哋係完全沒有自己的開發和創新的技術的.
@@neutronstar77 你個邏輯如果大陸APP對印度冇任何作用，咁何必要禁中國APP。你講嘢互相矛盾，就係因為有用印度人先至會下載。你會唔會下載一個對你完全冇用嘅軟件，九唔搭八。
IT is problem solving.
Tata 唔只做software
首先，印度人的英語能力是世界公認，他們熟悉西方同亞洲的運作方式，數學水平高。另外，西方每個行業的運作方式較為統一或標準，所以在編寫軟件時比較“容易”。同樣是中文，中國大陸跟香港同台灣都有不同，所以中國人編寫軟件較難“國際化”。
Mr. Siu, I want to point out two cases that might answer the questions you raised in your series. There were twenty years ago when the CAD industry wanted to change from 2D to 3D, the industry came together and formed the Intellicad consortium. They formed a basic 3D cad platform so that everybody is free to download. This is an open software that enabled the developers to add their feathers to it. I had also downloaded a copy too. I think I saw a Chinese company and a Hong Kong company are also part of the consortium. SolidWorks and Cadopia are part of the consortium as well. There is no reason why that Chinese company can not develop that CAD as well as AutoCAD, may not be suppressed SolidWorks. I also saw one of the Taiwanese chipmakers used it to make the drawing of the prototype of the chip. My friend made the prototype of the IC from AutoCad as well. I think you are right, It is part of the steals and uses culture.
蕭生，普通嚟講，唐人包括籠中人喺某程度上不但不遵重合約，肆無忌憚啲改變須求，最衰係唔找數！
印度人不守约才是出了名的，做几次生意就知道了
收入表可能無考慮人民幣升值 中印增長比可能更大
软件我觉得唔系咩问题，阿里腾讯之类辅助嘅话应该可以解决问题，就好似以前12306
軟件行業值錢是前端(需求分析到軟件架構)和底層算法，印度做的基本就是軟件業的富士康。
再者，軟件本身並不值錢。它的价值在於提高第二，三産業的生産力，中國軟件主要在內需增長正說明本身經濟發展。
👍👍👍
👍
中共冇信用係人都怕中共係軟件內跟蹤你，中國軟件吾可能太流行
中國人因為冇知識產權個個人都收埋自己野吾會同其他人分享，變成各有各做。
Manager 唔可以唔識編碼㗎蕭生，唔識既話點管 engineer 呀？我覺得你不太了解軟件業。documentation 唔齊既問題連美國一啲最大既公司都有。一言難盡。
印度软件。。。微软的windows算吗？还有啥来着？
吹印度软件产业前 看看你的手机和电脑 可有安装任何一个印度软件～
萧生信息搜索及理解能力一流，外行人可以系统说出国内软件行业的主要问题。前几年，很多广州的美容院call center都租过我的系统，听讲有几个是萧生有份投资的。
因为印度比英国管理过，英文也是官方文本之一。
厲害的我國
蕭生你都可以學寫軟件, 台灣的小孩子都學寫軟件
人哋砌lego，中國人砌puzzle! 印度人仲會用佢自己語言做 program。等你睇唔明
你講得啱；以前跟到我發火
COMMUNICATION! COMMUNICATION! You are absolutely correct, a system with sufficient communication is the key to success. CCP mentality: withholding knowledge (due to insecurity and low self-esteem), and lack (and unwillingness) of communication (non-existence of an unified system) = FAILURE
叻既印度人去晒歐美國家搵食，本土無乜app都世界流行
程式碼=語言/英文？
中國人所謂嘅小聰明其實害死自己
印度人係考試機器來架。。。
中國邏輯生產中國軟件！😫
印度佬都可以吹餐饱，真系服左你烧灯泡。中国同印度无论比咩都领先九条街啦。
写软件最基本就系正常人的心理逻辑，中国在这样的环境下，还有人有正常的逻辑？
@@kangking5460 中国韭菜如何躺平
叫老蕭阿蕭公子呢條粉腸寫軟件，吹水就得，點同阿差比！
叫美食家食評人呢條腸粉煮嘢食，吹水就得，點同廚師比！
進入大康 之後 家家戶戶 都過百億身家，做呢D嘢 黎做咩啫？😂你唔係話 有錢買唔到係馬😂傻豬黎既🤣
中国的程序员地位非常低
👏
👍
👍👍👍