Millennium Tower residents billed $6.8 million for fix overruns
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2023
- With work finally over on the so-called fix of the Millennium Tower, residents are now saddled with a $6.8 million bill out of an estimated $20 million in cost overruns on the long delayed and troubled retrofit project. Jaxon Van Derbeken reports.
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Imagine a builder's incompetence causing this issue and then hiring/paying that same incompetent builder to fix their garbage work. Totally insane. They should never be allowed to work in construction ever again.
Not necessarily the main contractors incompetence, geotechnical survey analysis and ground engineering could be at fault.
The MC works to approved and signed of drawings with the city or independent consultants confirming the work has been carried out as per drawings. Deviation from the drawing would then make the MC liable.
Also note that the generic term "builder" does not accurately convey the construction programme / sequence.
This is San Fran - there had to be several city inspectors that got paid in the table to walk away during construction. And the developer cash in! It’s going to be hard to sue any of them, they may have e all moved out of state and in hiding with the bags of $$$
incomprtence or greed?
It wasn’t incompetence, it was greed. it was cutting corners on the foundation to save money.
They should be in jail.
Charging the residents is outrageous exclamation. They haven’t done anything wrong. Make the people who built a faulty building reach in their pockets and pay for the repairs. Meanwhile, the residents should sue, everyone responsible for this fiasco!
Cluelessness and no Lawyer cost more money than paying a Lawyer
Yes they did do something wrong. they chose to live there. I think that was probably wrong.😆😆
They already had a settlement. A settlement is a settlement, and is considered a done deal.
@@imapaine-diaz4451the first thing that was wrong was building a faulty building a faulty building in the first place, and then the city approving said building for residential living.
And yes, a settlement is a settlement, however, the residents being forced to pay for the overrun fixes was not part of that settlement.
Read the "EULA" before you buy..
An audit should be done to see how the settlement money was spent and if it was mismanaged.
How much would an audit cost them? Or, the taxpayers?
not if, rather how.
its a given - as soon as you bring lawyers in they just figure out much they can get and bill accordingly. Lawyers are far more likely to ruin a project than contribute to it. It would not surprise me if they got 30-50million
It does not matter if they are millionaires or billionaires, it is not their fault and they should not pay. They should band together, get a good real estate lawyer and not pay.
They at-fault parties already settled with the owners, report was clear on this. They are now holding the bag.
Sure it matters. 😂 #tearitdown
@@someguy6075damn skippy! Don’t complain after the fact and act like you’re the victim from this. You signed on dotted line knowing full well all related details.
F'em.
wait till the next earth quake
They just need to demolish the building before an earthquake knocks it down and hit nearby buildings. They just keep on adding more money on a sinking hole.
This is a real estate nightmare because no one can ever sell their unit in this building so they are doomed to live in the building until it tilts too dangerously far that they have to tear it down.
Best realistic explanation I have heard so far. Why would you even risk 2000$+ in HOAs per month. To live there you most likely have the money to hire serious professionals to cut the loss of possible.
If it doesn't fall down first.
Residents have to try SLEEPING in the building which could conceivably collapse!!
It's called Vanity. They wanted something that showed status and wealth. For what they paid for it they could have brought 5-8 houses. The unit are like 2 million dollars.
So yea I don't feel bad for them. I dont wish anything bad on anyone but it's nice to see rich people get fucked over just like average America and the city and the contractors not giving a shit juat because you have money you think you special.
It's nice when reality humbles people
OMG-----
The contractor, builder, designer, engineers, should collectively pay for these "fix overruns" NOT the residents or HOA. Period !
All of this happened because the builders cut corners and didn’t spend an extra $3 million to anchor the foundation into bedrock. I just don’t get it. Each apartment was going for $2 million. These weren’t cheap apartments. Why not tell everyone, “Hey, the apartments really cost $2 million, 100 thousand” and take that money and do the foundation right? Or just get less profit? If I were one of the owners, I wouldn’t pay. This is the builder’s problem. Let them go bankrupt (after they fix the problem, of course).
Of course they didn't THINK it would be a problem. The same reason millions of catastrophes large and small have happened over history.
It costs 3 million, but also it would have cost extra time, which is money. Company probably thought pocketing 3 million and the builsing would be just fine. Had they knew they would have done it right.
What do the regs say? Always anchor foundations to bedrock..unless you are in a time-rush?
Tofu dreg
G.R.E.E.D
What a horrible situation. Owning very pricy property that’s now worthless.
They need to just take this building down, the fixes are going to keep coming.
To the homeowners- just sell it and or go into foreclosure. You will never recoup your money. If you stay there, the building might collapsed or it might get condemned. Waiting for a payout is not worth it. Forget the retrofitting or whatever they want to call it (because it is NOT working). You are on the Titanic and it is slowly sinking. Get out before it gets worst.
You assume someone would be so foolish to buy any condo in that tower.
@@zakuma22
But they did. What’s the point of your comment?
I don't think they can sell, they can only go into foreclosure.
@@milspec8283maybe they can sell discounted at a loss and recoup something before they have to pay for total dismantling demolition
Gravity always wins.
Just tear it down. This is one of the biggest structural failures post 1906 fire and Loma Prieta in bay area history. And it wasn't due to a natural catastrophe
Seems like the builder should pay for all repairs.
yes, it's stupid that they are being paid for what they screwed
The engineers should be held responsible because they ran he calcs for the foundation. All of these remediation is just repairs for a faulty design. So now they want to anchor to bedrock? Why didn't they do that in the 1st place?
if a building isn't up to code to begin with, it should be the builders that make it right. not the victims/buyers.
You could squeeze so much blood from a stone.
They already settled, apparently they didn't settle for enough
@@ryanglaser5336
Unfortunately, there’s always the possibility that there isn’t enough money to save the building
The residents have to come up with $14k by October 1st?!?! It’s not their financial obligation to begin with. They should have their attorney forward the bill to the developer.
No. Just this guy. It depends on the specific unit.
It is. The developer already settled with them.
What do you expect it's a Democratic City. Got to blame someone other than themselves that's responsible for it. So they don't look bad on paper at the end.
@@KK-pm7udNo, every owner pays approximately that.
@@sr-ty7gb Not true. Do a little thinking and listen to it again.
City: “Say…there’s a lean on your property!”
HOA: “Hey… there’s a lien on your property!”
Evacute the building, remove the contents, and dismantle the building before a catastrophe occurs - which is inevitable.
It will be worse than the Miami collapse.
Were you also a pharmacology expert during covid?
@@tinetannies4637covid didn't get you?
@@jackb348 Much, much worse. It's bound to affect other structures.
@@roadkillgravy5168 the point is this poster speaks of the "inevitable" catastrophe of the Millennium Tower as if he or she knows enough to make such an assertion. Every actual structural engineer I've heard says the real likely problem is the inability of elevators and sewer lines to function, not the building tipping over.
As a homeowner, I would simply go back to them and say “the problem has not been fixed.”
Be pretty difficult to sell a condo full of backed up sewer water in a leaning tower in a town with a famous quake problem.😵💫🙄🦆
They all got settlement checks.
Lots of red flags flying!!
Why the residents need to pay for a mistake the construction company did? It’s the company fault for doing a bad job in the first place
Ah the wonders of living under an HOA. Caveat Emptor!
because these dumpass live in a HOA community and HOA will bill you everything
Everyone is getting screwed by every single product and force to pay. Blackmail
HOA already settled all the lawsuits, this was clearly stated. They put aside $150m from the settlements and it wasn't enough.
@@getcrack4me HOA board is made up of and voted on by the owners. The owners are responsible to keep their own property in livable condition. The difference with condos is one person can't very well say no to building-level repairs without affecting everyone else. That's why HOAs have power to force you to chip in.
If the owners and HOA collectively drag their feet and balk at the cost that's how you get a Surfside.
What a dream, you get to live in a city with poop all over the streets and your condo has poop overflowing in the sink. Why again to people pay so much to live there?
Never buy a home off the plan. Always buy homes that were finished building several years before. Let someone else test the bearings. That's what I say.
Easy for you to say when you never had to try to buy shit in a major city. It's impossible to find a place for sale. Thats why people prepurchase properties. 6 years ago in DTLA, when a building wasn't even half way finished 80% of the whole block got bought up by Chinese foreigners. in major cities, there is 10 buyers for every unit available.
Fun Fact . The Cities Embarcadero and shore line use to run passed market street down into the mission district. All of that financial district real estate is literally built on top of an old shipyard , with the ships included. Lol . They have found many still intact buried under landfill and cement.
Yeah and it is interesting why the engineer decided to not design the foundation down to bedrock. From previous articles I have read the engineers calculations showed that their design was ok but they must have missed something when they did their analysis.
Maaan, I'd be so scared of a quake knocking it over into my building 🤦🏻♀️
I would move right away if I was there...
I am not sympathetic to this chaotic mess. However, it's not the homebuyers' fault. They should owe NOTHING and be highly compensated for being sold a "pig in a poke".
Yeah they should do what the people in that Florida building that collapsed did. Nothing. Very smart.
You’re assuming that somebody at fault has the money needed to fix the building.
If the builder is confident in their solution then they should buy the condos back and resell them.
@@Rhaspun
With white money
They act like the condo owners had something to do with the faulty building of this nightmare
It is their home, they need to pay up or get out
because they alreday blew the monney that the deveoper gave them in settlement... and More... a deals a deal
This horror is SO SAN FRANCISCO. I predict that eventually the building will be taken down.
Only if the building takes itself down.
A 29 inch lean must be putting enormous stress on the frame. It would be interesting to see if it survives an earthquake when already stressed joints are going to be subjected to more stress. I don't understand how a building was allowed to be constructed on soft earth in the middle of an earthquake zone.
Skyrises are extremely durable these days. It will survive.
Was thinking the same thing. My opinion is that they need to tear it down
It’s concrete, not steel frame. Concrete is much more susceptible to failure from lateral stress.
Tear it down.
This building is a tear down...it can never be repaired
That is just a mess. I feel sorry for the owners, and how can they sell?
Living in LA, my building (not by any means a luxury building) required each owner to come up with $22K because of the retrofit requirements passed by LA County. It's the price of being a homeowner - you're not safe in new builds and you're not safe in the buildings that have been around for decades. Between that and the thousands I've put in to fix damage from leaks from rain, going back to the rental life doesn't sound that bad...
I live in Indiana, my mortgage is $400/month. My car has never been broken into, crime is low, and there isn't a single homeless anywhere near my home. Why anyone would live in a big city baffles me.
No that’s the price for an inept government in CA……..You are nothing more than a stooge in their play!
@@7996hobguywho would anyone live in Indiana is mind boggling
This wasn't a improvement or a wise modernization to preserve your investment.. its payment to cover someone else's criminal negligence.
Why the hell are you still living there?? You enjoying them robbing you?
A 2 million dollar loss on a property would hurt most people really bad… this sucks for the homeowners and there needs to be a major lawsuit regarding this
people buy cars every day that drop just as fast in value....
@@dakrawnik4208 lol a 2 million car does not depreciate to being unsellable in a matter of years unless you crash it. Plus anyone dropping tons of money on cars probably has money to spare. I am sure there are plenty of people in that building where that is their only property or a significant amount of their wealth. They were thoroughly messed up financially.
This half-assed „fix“ project has been analyzed and documented by engineering experts to not work and will only worsen the “sinking/tilting”! These residents are being asked to pay for their own burial grave - the building collapsing! The Owners should be put in jail for criminal negligence and pay back 100% of the money collected fro all residents - who should be immediately evacuated!!!
First time I ever heard the developer charge the buyer for fixing their problem. These guys will never be able to sell or develop a property ever again.
The engineer in charge of the repairs is a guy name Ronald Hamburger. With a name like that he could be the chief french-fry maker at a McDonalds.
What a mess. This issue is never going to be resolved and that building is always going to have problems. Would be interesting to know if there have been any new purchases of units in this building since this problem started and if they are offering move in discounts. I wouldn't give them a dime towards their cost overruns. I wonder if the developer/builder has to disclose this disastrous venture when they seek out new jobs.
If it’s bad now several years after construction, Imagine how bad this will be in a few decades and beyond. I think what’s on a lot of peoples minds is sooner or later they will need to tear this down, either due to it leaning to a point the building risks falling over or SF city governments love of rolling out new laws and regulations eventually requiring them to take it down.
Do you have a libertarian schizophrenia?
You’re going to blame San Francisco if the building gets so bad that it has to be torn down?
So, in your libertarian mind, it should be the decision of the building owners, but if it falls, then you can blame the government.
The "Leaning Tower of Frisco". Should have hired some Italian engineers to fix it, they have experience with this sort of thing.
Suddenly a double-wide in a trailer park doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
The city's heightened requirements? You mean the city is requiring that the building be functional and safe? How outrageous! ;-)
How about all the heavier residents move to the other side?
Takata paid off claims for their faulty airbags and then committed seppuku. The developers should do the same.
No, they went out of business leaving billions of cars on the road with their fault. The airbag igniters. The manufactures of the cars got stuck with the bills.
Just like the owners of the Condo’s are getting stuck with a Bill’s.
So the people who purchased are screwed and screwed again, huh? Sounds right...
$14,000 to those rich snobs is like $1.40 to us!
Thank you
Ripe the building down. This is not the owners fault. Refuse to pay hoa and place it into escrow and file a lawsuit.
How long does it take for the building to ripen?
Better option: A single story home in the country
Only improved it by 3/4th of an inch? My God.
So if the homeowners don’t come up with the $14k by the 1st…. Will their units be sold by the HOA because if a lien? Sometimes the more money you have, the more problems. If those folks weren’t as rich at one time they’d have bought simple homes elsewhere instead of high rise condominiums in this cursed building.
Never skip the independent peer review of your building plans. The builders skipped this step thinking their geology reports were accurate, their plans were perfect and they could rake in the cash. They built this tower like a tofu dregs building
Yes. The builders thought they were doing to gain several million dollars by not setting the foundation onto the bedrock.
Here’s a little dirty secret of plumbing. Plumbers are supposed to maintain at least a 1/8” per foot slope for sanitary drainage systems. Their installs are far from exact and they often run pipe “level” which is ok for a short run as long as it is not near the point of the drain start point. That whole building is going to soon be filled with overflowing shit water in a lot of units.
Can you elaborate on how the swaying tower would impact the slope for the drainage systems? I believe what you're saying, I'm just having a hard time figuring out how the angle would change with the tower itself moving? Would be curious to understand the physics at play better.
@@TheMilkYourDadWentToBuy The vertical sanitary mains are in the core of the building. There are many vertical mains that are designed to handle a calculated number of “fixture units” which is a plumbing design method of calculating the needed size of mains. There are horizontal branch lines from all the different units that feed into the vertical sanitary mains. For example: The East side apartment bathrooms horizontal run west to drop down the (core) vertical mains. The 1/8” slope (on the horizontal lines) is slanted down towards the west (as it runs to these central mains). 1/8” is a very slight slope and if the building starts tilting to the East….that 1/8”’slope that we all depend on to carry our poo poo with water flow, will start to be come “flat” and at some point there is a reverse slope back towards the source, which is an apartment bathroom. Here comes the poo!! The flow is backing up and it’s a terrible terrible thing. I don’t even want to go into what’s happening to the outflow pipes at ground level! It’s a disaster. The building WILL have reduced height or need to come down completely as it will be a massive hazzard to the buildings around it.
@@TheMilkYourDadWentToBuy take a piece of paper and draw a tall rectangle building , then draw a bunch of sloping lines down the building from side to side to simulate the drainage pipes ....hold the paper up then tilt it to one side .
@@shari9721 Wouldn’t the drainage pipe be a closed system with some kind of valve though?
It's not a secret, its physics.
And even IF the fix works. That building is still going to be marked forever price wise, as would any barely built building encountering such issues.
What the heck is the builder doing?
"We'll just raise bridge toll to pay the difference"
The residence should not be being billed for this.
The city who approved the plans, the engineering company, the contractors everyone involved in every step in phase of the construction of this building that had to do with the building should be billed .
Not the residence .
Ah yes, bill the city, so everyone else can foot the bill for this scummy property management company. Great idea dumbass.
Why do people say that they don’t want the government interfering in business. But as soon as business screws up the first thing they say is why didn’t the government step in and stop them. The government showed them the plans of what they were going to build. Based on the information, the business provided to the government it appeared sound.
The government didn’t do course samples to verify it. Because that’s not what government does.
The tilt is due to the poor construction/design foresight of the builder and developer, so why do residents have to foot part of the bill to remedy the situation.
because they alreday blew the monney that the deveoper gave them in settlement... and More... a deals a deal
Welcome to America Mustafa!
Fun fact:
I don’t live in California.
they would have been best to just tear it all down and rebuild it the right way . there will always be more and more problems like I said so many times they are going to end up spending more money in this building then what it would have cost them to take it down and rebuild it the right way . but ohh well I can't do anything about this . I feel bad for the residents in there.
They have the nerve to charge them at all.
They think they are slick.
Building is a lost cause. Its already going to be a public safety hazard in the next 5-10 years. The owner needs to dismantle the building.
The engineers that are responsible for this mess should be in jail.
Umm it is not that serious
If you spent 4 million dollars buying a condo, it’s serious. Some paid over 10 million at this building
That is too far. Unless they intentionally designed it wrong and wanted to cause harm they should not be in jail.
The definition of the "fallacy of sunk cost".
How exactly is it a fallacy? Seriuos question.
@@nixonhoover2 "The sunk cost fallacy is the tendency for people to continue an endeavor or course of action even when abandoning it would be more beneficial. "
I know what the sunk cost logical fallacy is I just don't see how it applies here considering the amount of money at hand, downpayments, d and the fact that they may not get any of it back even it they lawyered up, which itself cost more money.
May be you're right the logical fallacy applies here.@@tsbrownie
I’m wondering how they can just keep adding costs. When I managed a contract, there was a requirement to seek authorization to incur additional costs before incurring the additional costs. 🤔
I pissed in my kitchen sink....but I took the dishes out first...
This tower issue is so ridiculous. It needs to be destroyed. Nothing will fix the problem, the structure vs the land’s stability is a very difficult issue to resolve. Cheaper to destroy and build something more durable for the sinking land.
Demolishing a building like that is a pretty expensive venture.
So who’s coming up with all of this money to tear the old building down and replace it ?
This is a nightmare for these homeowners. Never be able to sell, and most likely will incur further damage from a large quake.
Wondering how many other buildings suffer 🤔 the same problem
They are going to keep sending bills to homeowners and eventually tear down the building anyway
The fact that they're asking apartment / condo owners to come up with the bit of overage is asinine! It's the builders and developers' fault so they should be the ones paying to fix it, even if estimates (rightfully so) came up higher than expected. Well, when you botch a job with worse than common sense, it costs even more to fix!
I have a feeling that this will drag on and on, and everyone lawyers up and nothing gets fixed, and its a complete loss for the tenants when its leaned too far and cant turn back.
supposedly the other side should sink now and lev the building out over time
The Millennium Tower is a perfect representation of the state of San Franshitco
So is Joe Biden
Imagine hording treasure on a sinking ship
These people's condo are all worth $0.00
Is it in their contract that the tower can just bill them for a mistake they made?
Remove the top 1/3 of the building. It's so easy. It's too heavy....
I bet they could have done that twice with the funds currently invested in the fix.
Astounding.
Just a reminder, the residents received a sizable settlement check in 2019. They can afford the assessment.
Owners need to file for bankruptcy to get their name off the units. It is the ONLY way out of the mess because the units are unsellable. Stay and pay or file and leave.
The owners may have enough money where loss of a condo unit would not push them into bankruptcy
A home is only a “money pit” if you’re lucky enough to own one.
Being asked to pay for repairs to a building that will eventually be torn down? Residents should, at the very least, just walk away and tell the owners they can re-sell the units. Preferably, they should also sue the builder for selling such a sub-standard structure in the first place.
This is outrageous. And there's no guarantee the leaning will not begin again. The internal damages to the tower will probably never be fully fixed as they cannot be. I typically don't feel bad for rich people but in this case I do. They're human and don't deserve this abuse.
they can sell their unit and move... and they are counting on leaning to continue.. just on the other side.
Sell them? To who? @@williamhaynes7089
SF tax payers paid 30 million towards the fix.
Thanks finestien
@@catdaddy2643have some friggin respect for the dead 🤨
the fix-up costs should be paid by the engineers and builders who screwed up
Owners of the building have to be liable for a class action suite from all the condo. owners! Lawsuit may refund money 3-5 years from now ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL!
I’ve been following this story for a while now and I want to be sympathetic for them but these are millionaires. I’m more concerned about the tower falling if San Francisco had a large earthquake.None of the reports have addressed the most important question: What’s stopping the remaining residents from leaving entirely after receiving their settlements?
I feel bad for that owner and none of them should have to pay a dime for this problem with the tower, but I do have a very hard time thinking he's destitute or can't afford to pay considering how much it costed to buy one of those condos.
At this rate, he'll be destitute soon!
It’s $1m for a old starter home that needs renovations in the Bay Area. $2m is an average middle class condo.
Buy a building on quicksand in the bay and it will tilt
It needs to be torn down before it falls on SalesForce. SalesForce went 100ft down to bedrock. Millennium tower only went down 80ft, which is why it’s falling over
I feel sorry for these people
i am sure they feel for you
😂
Isn't there some sort of insurance that protects these owners due to the negligence of the builders?
The nightmare that never ends....
The developer already settled with the HOA, they are off the hook. Sucks if the settlement wasn't enough but the owners are now responsible to repair their own building. Condos are risky and special assessments are normal. This is supposed to be an upmarket building. Little sympathy for people who stretched to afford it.
The person complaining about the $14k assessment has a monthly HOA due somewhere around $2k. $150m was set aside from settlements and the owners are being asked for $7m more for overruns, less than 5% and after they somehow got an additional $10m from the developer. To put things in perspective.
Not to say that the SanFran residents were the ones who foot the bill to begin with
my heart bleeds for Millionaires.
I feel sorry for these people, yes they may have had more than you but they will lose most if not all of their wealth.
@@youtubeguy99 just like they feel bad for Unions, working-class, poor, homeless, abandoned abused children. Sorry, don't feel bad for narcissists
People dont seem to understand that a CONDO is not the same as an apartment.
Don't pay it. It's not a maintenance improvement. It's a design flaw that shouldn't be placed onto the residence
The contractor and company have to be held accountable. If you bid the job that is the price. If you failed as a company to do correct bidding, you lose.
It’s complicated. The lawyers will figure it out.
I'm sure if they can afford to live there, $10k-$20k is pocket change for them. It's probably just equal to 1 month of rent.
It’s not the money, it’s the principle of having to pay for someone else’s mistake.
Smh rich mfs
there is no 'Rent', they own the units and the building itself.. Monthly feees collected are for upkeep of building and staff.
The cities hightened requirements.
California dreamin!
As I was told long ago. ..
If your willing to accept the luxury should be willing to accept it's costs.
Why are millionaires complaining about a few thousand dollars worth of bills?
This guy is a millionaire? He lives in an apartment that is owned by the bank. Paper wealth isn't wealth.
Such a broke ass nigga energy comment. They have every right to complain when they purchased a property thinking the building was built correctly. Doesn’t matter if you’re rich. It’s the principal.
@@Dave-cf4vd He is and it is. He bought into an upmarket building with a concierge and a monthly HOA due somewhere around $2k. Doesn't matter if the mortgage isn't paid off yet. The fact he even qualified for the loan means he is not poor.