I know for bmws you can read how soot filled the def gets, are you able to see how much soot stock vs aftermarket makes for all tuners to show how dirty the tunes are??? Maybe graph the soot buildup over time on the dyno??? I think that would be great data to show how good the tunes are
Gale, you reputation precedes itself and all of your products are well engineered and legit, you have proven to the diesel community that performance can be increased without increasing emissions, you are a living legend.
@@powerstroke0459 most people are not smart enough to tune a standalone. They want plug and play. EFI live is good stuff but this targeting a different market.
Banks knows that the Ram 2500/3500 transmissions especially the 68RFE (based on a grand caravan transmission) which is in every 3/4 ton and over half of the 3500’s can’t handle an ounce of extra power without grenading. From a liability standpoint- I don’t blame them for not doing it. I own a Cummins and understand why they haven’t developed one yet. You can’t add any power to a Cummins without first upgrading the weak tranny. If/When they do come out with a Derringer even for the newer Cummins it will probably have a transmission kit included with it for the 68RFE and have a disclaimer (hopefully partner with ATS Diesel for the kit is the only hope). For the other half of the 3500 with Aisin transmissions, you can’t tune the transmission to take the extra power but it will handle minor increases in power. With the Ram Cummins, adding more power starts with the transmissions which is something that the consumer is not used too. Let me know Banks if you need anyone to try it it out. 2017 Ram Mega Cab Cummins 2wd Towing Mule with factory air suspension.
@@michaeldelfs6267 good point, auto transmissions have generally been a weak spot on any modified vehicle. Manual... wait can people still drive sticks?
No comparison between canned tunes vs written specific to your vehicle. Having had both throughout the years, Banks offer's the best bang for your buck for a canned tune.
@@paulbenderavich3833 Agreed. These inline tuners are meant to be quick to install and easily reversible because a lot of places have annual or bi-annual inspections. It also helps if you need to make a warranty claim. Dealers can tell if someone has reprogrammed the ecm even if they return it to stock.
Great video by the man that puts all the “rolling coal” crowd in their place. Literally a waste of fuel to have any black smoke when in the loud peddle.
Banks bought a 2020 Ram last fall and I believe he said in an earlier video he would have some new stuff for the Rams out in late spring to early summer. I could be wrong but thats what I heard.
If the truck has the emissions equipment removed, the Derringer will not work. Derringer relies on the factory hardware to be intact in order to CARB compliant and function properly.
I’ve been waiting and monitoring Banks site for a Derringer for my 2022 and still first quarter into 2024, the site says “coming soon”. Guessing my 2022 will be long gone before they release it and I don’t plan on letting my 2022 go for a very long time
With my derringer on my 2017 6.7 f250 it regen’s twice within 300 miles on power level 2-6 and on the stock power level. I can go almost 500 miles before a Regen. My idash and derringer are both up to date on the latest firmware. Care to explain? Plus before putting the derringer on my exhaust tips were clean. No soot at all. You could eat off them. And now they are black covered with soot. I think your derringer is dumping waaaaay to much fuel. Missing having clean exhaust tips. Would explain the crazy amount of regens when the designer is activated. Plus I put in a request over a month ago for a carb sticker for the derringer on your website and still haven’t received anything.
Perhaps a 2 part question: 1) Why does the torque chart show peak above 2k rpms when the manufacturer claims a 2017 peak torque is something like 1600? 2) what gains if any are actually below 2k rpm as I tow at 1650 rpm at full interstate speeds (Perhaps it's not a power adder down low but could get better mpg)? Thank you and very interested in your product for my 2017 F250 PSD.
If you watch other videos you'll see that the transmission won't allow it to operate at that peak torque rpm anyway. It'll always downshift. The only point it will be there with throttle applied is first gear and they can't accurately measure or load the dyno at that rpm or in first gear.
Greetings from Colorado Springs. Would ♥️ to test going up Pikes Peak on a hot Summer day. Altitude to 14,000 ft, steep grade, hot temperature with weight in the bed (don’t Know if they will allow towing) would be an awesome test. Banks works, others fail.
Lucky Ford owners, can't wait for the Derringer for the 2.8 Duramax. Actually it looks like I can wait, as I have been waiting for 2 years. 😁I guess I have to be patient as I refuse to put anything else but a Banks tuner, it's the only one I trust not to damage my baby DURAMAX.
@@justinjones5288 if you really believe PPEI is the best, send me your one so I can try it out. REGARLESS, I am waiting for Banks Power Derringer, as I already have the Pedal Mister and it's been only positive experience. Not one negative!!! BANKS rocks!!!
@@bankspower ok so. Sell me into this Bank Derringer, over Using HPtuners with something like PPEI, Duramax Tuner. Or any other tuner that i would need an ECM swap. What would i benefit from using Banks vs HP tuners software
Well for one, it can protect your warranty. It does not alter the truck’s ECM in any way, unlike a flash tuner that permanently alters the truck’s ECM. If the truck needs to go to the dealer or smog check, simply remove the Derringer and engine harness. It takes less than 10 minutes. After removal its presence is undetectable.
I know for 99% fact that when he tested the derringer that there were probably no codes or weird dash goings on…..but funny how they did not show ANY of that on the two pulls he did with his product. Again, I’m sure everything was legit just seems a little strange after all the ‘honest’ graphs he was so proud of.
Nice commercial Mr. Gale, but unfortunately is, regeneration what kills diesel engine...and adding more power is gonna increase amount of regeneration...
Not necessarily. If you keep the air fuel ratio close to stock, you’ll see a similar frequency. In some cases were actually leaner than the stock 18:1 because Derringer commands boost.
It does does come with one, however, some folks love to see data. The iDash is designed to daisy chain up to 4 if needed for thing like racing applications.
@@bankspower so in this video it’s just 2 idash gauges and one is connected to the derringer correct? Also do you have on for the powerstroke 2020-2021?
No, it will not. The Derringer is designed for complete emissions intact designs only. If the truck is missing EGR, CAT, DPF, DEF, or SCR it will not be able to make the necessary performance calculations.
They have outrageous price for that little toy that makes less then 100 horsepower difference I would spend money wisely on CP4 tuning and fuel injectors this guy's take your money for very little horsepower change honestly not worth it.
Some of your futures are great but 11:20 Why on the Earth module lose power? No way, in real life, no one will cut your wires on your engine bay, In the worst-case scenario if any module fails you will get a check engine light reduced power but the engine will not shut down. But in your switch system, indirectly you are switching off the power that goes to the Commonrail pressure sensor that will kill the engine. That is a very dangerous marketing tactic. Perhaps consumers will not understand what you are doing, but any electronic and electrical engineer can understand what you are doing as unethical and unfair!
@@operator8014Really. So better fuel economy? Much more power for equal displacement? Simpler combustion? Fuel that is extremely stable? And fuel that can be made from a myriad of sources in a world where fuel isn’t easily accessible? Yes, they use more engine oil, but they also require oil changes less frequently. While they have some more expensive repairs, and a few more maintenance items than gasoline, their real only negative is that they cost more to the end consumer to purchase in the US due to insane taxes and price gouging that exist to make people feel better about the less than 0.00001% of the population with bad tunes being ass hats dumping black smoke - which is just non combusted diesel.
@@Uncle_Fester24 Banks is developing a new tuner for the 2020-2024 super duty 6.7 however this one will leave a footprint on the truck’s computer thereby voiding your warranty. Banks is going to release the new “derringer “ that won’t leave a footprint like the old one. So your insider is correct…..to a point.
@Banks Power can we get a dyno video of the 6.7 powerstroke with the derringer, pedal commander, exhaust and cai? I’d love to see what all the pieces working together put down over stock.
A comparison of the relative fuel economies would also be interesting. I.e. something like a normalised graph of gained hp per mpg... I mean he says they are just pissing rule into the engine.. which has got to terrible not just for regen but also mpg.
here’s a serious question i never in my life thought i’d ask.... what’s with this RPM act? on converting street cars to race cars even tho they will only see a race track it being illegal?
That tool chest is a good value. It will do anything you need a tool chest to do. If you shop carefully, Harbor Freight has some excellent deals. Go away hater!
@@paulcopeland9035 I know! I've got the bright green one at work with all the trimmings. I 3d printed a snap on logo to mess with people LOL. It's wicked fun!
I wonder when you will have this available for the 2012 doge diesels ??? I would love to have this unit for the pre def Cummins !!! I think it would be fantastic !!!!
my truck friends hate Banks because they cant see the short-term power gains (5-6 second dinos at most) but im here using almost only banks gear for my truck because I don't want to be fixing my truck every other week like them but I get all the extra power that comes with the after market parts
The marketing is nice! I want to believe it but my real world experience around all tuners and programmers. Banks has always been a expensive waste of money.
![More POWER With A DPF Fitted? | Gale Banks On Emissions [TECH TALK]](/img/n.gif)
I love how he absolutely flames the shit out of the other companies. 😂
Because it’s true
i know Im kinda randomly asking but do anybody know of a good place to stream newly released series online?
@Rafael Grady Try FlixZone. You can find it by googling =)
@Reece Jaxen Yup, have been using FlixZone for months myself =)
@Reece Jaxen Thanks, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) Appreciate it !!
I know for bmws you can read how soot filled the def gets, are you able to see how much soot stock vs aftermarket makes for all tuners to show how dirty the tunes are??? Maybe graph the soot buildup over time on the dyno??? I think that would be great data to show how good the tunes are
The 6.7 Superdutys already have the DPF % of soot monitor in its display settings. You just have to enable it.
Hope you come out with the 2020 6.7 f250 derringer soon. I’ve been waiting a year for it haha.
Oh no my wait for the 21 just started
Gale, you reputation precedes itself and all of your products are well engineered and legit, you have proven to the diesel community that performance can be increased without increasing emissions, you are a living legend.
Whens is it coming out for the cummins Banks?
Wish you had one for a Cummins
They are working on Derringer for the newer Cummins (2019+). They even bought a high output Cummins to use for development.
Get EFI live
@@powerstroke0459 most people are not smart enough to tune a standalone. They want plug and play. EFI live is good stuff but this targeting a different market.
Banks knows that the Ram 2500/3500 transmissions especially the 68RFE (based on a grand caravan transmission) which is in every 3/4 ton and over half of the 3500’s can’t handle an ounce of extra power without grenading. From a liability standpoint- I don’t blame them for not doing it. I own a Cummins and understand why they haven’t developed one yet. You can’t add any power to a Cummins without first upgrading the weak tranny. If/When they do come out with a Derringer even for the newer Cummins it will probably have a transmission kit included with it for the 68RFE and have a disclaimer (hopefully partner with ATS Diesel for the kit is the only hope). For the other half of the 3500 with Aisin transmissions, you can’t tune the transmission to take the extra power but it will handle minor increases in power. With the Ram Cummins, adding more power starts with the transmissions which is something that the consumer is not used too. Let me know Banks if you need anyone to try it it out. 2017 Ram Mega Cab Cummins 2wd Towing Mule with factory air suspension.
@@michaeldelfs6267 good point, auto transmissions have generally been a weak spot on any modified vehicle. Manual... wait can people still drive sticks?
High Altitude Motorsports approves the Derringer in Colorados high altitude 😎
Can we get an update for the 2020+ year models. Waiting for at least a year now.
Love how Gale compares his product vs. The worst plug in boxes you can buy. Notice no EFI live in there
No comparison between canned tunes vs written specific to your vehicle. Having had both throughout the years, Banks offer's the best bang for your buck for a canned tune.
@@paulbenderavich3833 Agreed. These inline tuners are meant to be quick to install and easily reversible because a lot of places have annual or bi-annual inspections. It also helps if you need to make a warranty claim. Dealers can tell if someone has reprogrammed the ecm even if they return it to stock.
You had me at "I'm Gale Banks . . . ." 👏
Great video by the man that puts all the “rolling coal” crowd in their place. Literally a waste of fuel to have any black smoke when in the loud peddle.
butt there isint anything for the 2020 yet :(
Ram 19-21 when is it coming out??
Banks bought a 2020 Ram last fall and I believe he said in an earlier video he would have some new stuff for the Rams out in late spring to early summer. I could be wrong but thats what I heard.
@@DavidBrown-jt7yi I heard the same in July or so !!!
@@DavidBrown-jt7yi They've been saying that for YEARS. I'll believe it only when I actually have it installed.
@@jeffo1108 Understand. I think since they invested in a "test" truck this time maybe it will happen.
Gale out here throwing shade lol awesome job Gale!
It would be interesting to know the gains(mpg and hp)by removing all emissions related nonsense and keeping factory fueling and boost levels
If the truck has the emissions equipment removed, the Derringer will not work. Derringer relies on the factory hardware to be intact in order to CARB compliant and function properly.
I’ve been waiting and monitoring Banks site for a Derringer for my 2022 and still first quarter into 2024, the site says “coming soon”. Guessing my 2022 will be long gone before they release it and I don’t plan on letting my 2022 go for a very long time
With my derringer on my 2017 6.7 f250 it regen’s twice within 300 miles on power level 2-6 and on the stock power level. I can go almost 500 miles before a Regen. My idash and derringer are both up to date on the latest firmware. Care to explain? Plus before putting the derringer on my exhaust tips were clean. No soot at all. You could eat off them. And now they are black covered with soot. I think your derringer is dumping waaaaay to much fuel. Missing having clean exhaust tips. Would explain the crazy amount of regens when the designer is activated. Plus I put in a request over a month ago for a carb sticker for the derringer on your website and still haven’t received anything.
Perhaps a 2 part question: 1) Why does the torque chart show peak above 2k rpms when the manufacturer claims a 2017 peak torque is something like 1600? 2) what gains if any are actually below 2k rpm as I tow at 1650 rpm at full interstate speeds (Perhaps it's not a power adder down low but could get better mpg)? Thank you and very interested in your product for my 2017 F250 PSD.
Engine dyno vs running the power thorough a torque converter
If you watch other videos you'll see that the transmission won't allow it to operate at that peak torque rpm anyway. It'll always downshift. The only point it will be there with throttle applied is first gear and they can't accurately measure or load the dyno at that rpm or in first gear.
Also I love the argyle socks, classy guy!
I really hope the Derringer for 6.7 cummins I6 Ram.
My 2018 needs it.
I had my 2017 deleted and it was loaded with just 1 tune, can I buy this and just plug and play?
No, Derringer will not stack on top of another tune, also is will not work without emissions equipment.
When are they gonna be available for 2022 Superduty?
Any off road options?
Greetings from Colorado Springs. Would ♥️ to test going up Pikes Peak on a hot Summer day. Altitude to 14,000 ft, steep grade, hot temperature with weight in the bed (don’t Know if they will allow towing) would be an awesome test.
Banks works, others fail.
Lucky Ford owners, can't wait for the Derringer for the 2.8 Duramax. Actually it looks like I can wait, as I have been waiting for 2 years. 😁I guess I have to be patient as I refuse to put anything else but a Banks tuner, it's the only one I trust not to damage my baby DURAMAX.
Ppei would be the best option
@@justinjones5288 no thanks, I'll wait for the Derringer.
@@christianlabreche5722 why? Ppei tunes make more power and are just as safe
@@justinjones5288 if you really believe PPEI is the best, send me your one so I can try it out. REGARLESS, I am waiting for Banks Power Derringer, as I already have the Pedal Mister and it's been only positive experience.
Not one negative!!! BANKS rocks!!!
@@christianlabreche5722 PPEI is custom tuning......
408👍's up Mr Power thanks again for taking us all along with you
Would this take place of the pedal monster?
BP. So it's a 10% gain over stock setup ! Hope this could be adapted into the old LC200 and new LC300 Downunder ? V.
Ok so what about banks Derringer vs EFI live?
This video for the Derringer is discussing inline tuning, EFI live is flash tuning. Apples and oranges.
@@bankspower ok so. Sell me into this Bank Derringer, over Using HPtuners with something like PPEI, Duramax Tuner. Or any other tuner that i would need an ECM swap. What would i benefit from using Banks vs HP tuners software
Well for one, it can protect your warranty. It does not alter the truck’s ECM in any way, unlike a flash tuner that permanently alters the truck’s ECM. If the truck needs to go to the dealer or smog check, simply remove the Derringer and engine harness. It takes less than 10 minutes. After removal its presence is undetectable.
When Banks gets after your product, time to reconsider your life choices
Yes and the EPA is going after those other "tuner" companies !
Do you make one for the 2020+ model???
Question? With the Derringer while towing, do you still engage tow haul mode or just put it on level 3 and go?
Yes, you can use tow haul mode.
I know for 99% fact that when he tested the derringer that there were probably no codes or weird dash goings on…..but funny how they did not show ANY of that on the two pulls he did with his product. Again, I’m sure everything was legit just seems a little strange after all the ‘honest’ graphs he was so proud of.
Nice commercial Mr. Gale, but unfortunately is, regeneration what kills diesel engine...and adding more power is gonna increase amount of regeneration...
Not necessarily. If you keep the air fuel ratio close to stock, you’ll see a similar frequency. In some cases were actually leaner than the stock 18:1 because Derringer commands boost.
When is the Banks Derringer coming out for the 3.0 Inline 6 LM2 Duramax diesel?
I would buy a derringer for 2018 f150 Ecoboost if you made one
I want one 😫
Which 2 gauges are you running in the truck? Does everything in this video come in 1 package?
It does does come with one, however, some folks love to see data. The iDash is designed to daisy chain up to 4 if needed for thing like racing applications.
@@bankspower so in this video it’s just 2 idash gauges and one is connected to the derringer correct? Also do you have on for the powerstroke 2020-2021?
Well done.
Will this work well for a deleted truck of Will it need a different tune?
No, it will not. The Derringer is designed for complete emissions intact designs only. If the truck is missing EGR, CAT, DPF, DEF, or SCR it will not be able to make the necessary performance calculations.
@@bankspower do you have a tuner that is compatible with a deleted truck?
We do not. We only offer emission compliant tuning only.
Hey Gale ! I wanna hear about a 2.8 Duramax tuner!!
MR GALE BANKS STOP MESSING WITH FORD AND START WORKING ON DODGE CUMMINS !!!
What the hell is a harbor freight tool box doing there?
They have outrageous price for that little toy that makes less then 100 horsepower difference I would spend money wisely on CP4 tuning and fuel injectors this guy's take your money for very little horsepower change honestly not worth it.
This is hilarious.
Glad I’ll never buy a Ford after 2007.
Some of your futures are great but 11:20 Why on the Earth module lose power? No way, in real life, no one will cut your wires on your engine bay, In the worst-case scenario if any module fails you will get a check engine light reduced power but the engine will not shut down. But in your switch system, indirectly you are switching off the power that goes to the Commonrail pressure sensor that will kill the engine.
That is a very dangerous marketing tactic. Perhaps consumers will not understand what you are doing, but any electronic and electrical engineer can understand what you are doing as unethical and unfair!
First
You feel better now after that... spare parts
@@joshdillinger6598 if I don’t do it somebody else will, I just get to take away their joy
@@FishFind3000 gotta have more filth with that
@@joshdillinger6598 what are you upset that I beat you to it?
the 5 dislikes on this video are the 5 other tuning companies he just bashed!! lol
I have seen 2 of them…not in action…
Described to a tee, as I had pull them out of my friends truck on the side of highway…Grrr
I know where I'm dumpster diving...
What about 2020 trucks? Does it work on them as well?
I don't drive or own a diesel never will be, why i am watching Banks? Because he's a living legend
If you can appreciate the genius of the man why can you not appreciate the pros of a diesel even if you see the cons ?
@@simonburnby1997Because for the last 10 years, there have been no pros to a diesel engine.
@operator8014 you're a 🤡
@@operator8014 Not if you're in EU and have access to EU diesel tech.
@@operator8014Really. So better fuel economy? Much more power for equal displacement? Simpler combustion? Fuel that is extremely stable? And fuel that can be made from a myriad of sources in a world where fuel isn’t easily accessible?
Yes, they use more engine oil, but they also require oil changes less frequently. While they have some more expensive repairs, and a few more maintenance items than gasoline, their real only negative is that they cost more to the end consumer to purchase in the US due to insane taxes and price gouging that exist to make people feel better about the less than 0.00001% of the population with bad tunes being ass hats dumping black smoke - which is just non combusted diesel.
Mr Banks, I don't even have a diesel but always enjoyed your content. Knowledgeable & logical. Thank you.
When is this coming for the 2020+ ford 6.7?
I hope soon!
They told me they hope to have it out by summer.
@@erich2320 Don't hold your breath. They told me in June 2020 that it would be out by September 2020. Currently using the Pedal monster, its awesome.
We have been waiting for the derringer for the 2020 super duty for 3 YEARS !
I have a inside word- fall 2024 won't be called derringer tho..
@@Uncle_Fester24 Banks is developing a new tuner for the 2020-2024 super duty 6.7 however this one will leave a footprint on the truck’s computer thereby voiding your warranty. Banks is going to release the new “derringer “ that won’t leave a footprint like the old one. So your insider is correct…..to a point.
@@armedprophet3321for real??
What happened to your RAM. Can we get some info on that one too.
Patiently waiting for a 2020 derringer. Thanks Gale!
when are we going to see a derringer for the 19 cummins?
Buy one, try it for yourself.
they don’t make one
@@tannerfamilyfarms3450 Nice troll.
Many questions are quickly answered when I simply ask myself, "What Would Gale Banks (GB) Do?"
When will this be able to be used on the 20-21 6.7's?
This is the Banks content I love! I'm not sure who could possibly be more qualified to do this testing than Gale and his team.
When is the darringer coming out for 2020-2021?
So when will it be available for the 2020 6.7?
Hey Gale, please promptly perfect the derringer for the 2022 6.7!!!
@Banks Power
can we get a dyno video of the 6.7 powerstroke with the derringer, pedal commander, exhaust and cai? I’d love to see what all the pieces working together put down over stock.
Banks still does not have a derringer tuner for a 2020 and up 6.7.
I want one for a real engine, where the one for 2018 , 6.7 cummings, or maybe I have more power then rest of them, LOL 😂
Any update when they’ll be out for the 22 models?
Still nothing for Cummins.
I don't drive a diesel and don't ever really plan to.. but now I know what tuner I'm buying if I ever do lol
My Pedal Monster is the Best Throttle booster out !! Why bother with the rest when the Best is Banks Hands Down !!!
Patiently waiting for the Ram 6.7 Derringer... 😔
A comparison of the relative fuel economies would also be interesting.
I.e. something like a normalised graph of gained hp per mpg...
I mean he says they are just pissing rule into the engine.. which has got to terrible not just for regen but also mpg.
here’s a serious question i never in my life thought i’d ask.... what’s with this RPM act? on converting street cars to race cars even tho they will only see a race track it being illegal?
I am interested in one thing,… fuel economy. What is the best tuner for my 2011 f250 6.7?
Same here...2016. 15 mpg is kinda poor. It used to get 21 on the highway but a couple software updates at the dealer ruined that.
I don't even own one of these trucks. Just love Banks engineering. 🤙🏻😎🇺🇸🦅
please also compare it to EZLink tuner
When will it be available for Cummins?
Except that i paid full msrp for the derringer and idash gauge and it didnt do diddly. Just get a custom flash tune and be happy with it.
All them tuners right to the trash off the top of a Harbor Freight US General tool chest. Love it!
That tool chest is a good value. It will do anything you need a tool chest to do. If you shop carefully, Harbor Freight has some excellent deals. Go away hater!
@@paulcopeland9035 I know! I've got the bright green one at work with all the trimmings. I 3d printed a snap on logo to mess with people LOL. It's wicked fun!
Get otta my Facebook dude…😝🤣 Gale is tha best!!
When he said that line we laughed so hard we almost dropped the camera.
I wonder when you will have this available for the 2012 doge diesels ??? I would love to have this unit for the pre def Cummins !!! I think it would be fantastic !!!!
my truck friends hate Banks because they cant see the short-term power gains (5-6 second dinos at most) but im here using almost only banks gear for my truck because I don't want to be fixing my truck every other week like them but I get all the extra power that comes with the after market parts
Why did you not test Edge Products unit?
LML? When?
Any plans for 3.0l Duramax yet
Gale is just the best haha. The way he stairs at you after tossing that gear into the trash…. “Say something”
Still no Derringer for the Gen4 6.7 Cummins, maybe CalEPA scared them off. The "Coming Soon" note on that tuner came a very long time ago.
The marketing is nice! I want to believe it but my real world experience around all tuners and programmers. Banks has always been a expensive waste of money.
Wanting one for my 2020, patiently waiting
Sure is interesting that everything he endorses has his name on it and or is profitable for him. I mean...😂🤭
The absolute irony of an airflow expert being named Gale.
Can the programmer be used with just itself no guages?
Re-release but still deserving of a 👍
We are still waiting for the 2020-2024s
🤔 I didn’t know there was a Z in diesel! Diezel?? 😂😂
Jesus. Why the hell would you tune and run this garbage?
How does this work if my 2019 f250 is deleted?
When will they be out for 2021