I agree Brother Urshan. You teach it so well. It doesn't have to be complicated but I understand God has to give the revelation. I came to the truth through baptism in Jesus name. I was raised Baptist but when I started to read the word myself and seek for the truth God brought me to the truth through learning about Jesus name baptism.
23:00 awesome this is exactly the way I’ve always taught it. So overjoyed there’s someone else out there who explains it the same exact way. Thanks so much!
@@ryanprovost4828 Are you saying Jesus is not God? In Titus 2:13 it says: 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great GOD and Savior Jesus Christ, John 20:28-29 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” What are we going to do with the above verses? Deny them? I hope not my friend.
Trinitarians believe in One God THREE Persons nor TRINITY of Persons. Oneness believe in One God THREE modes (THREE manifestations) or TRINITY of modes, Lol. Oneness are Trinitarians! The Trinity is inevitable!
Nourishing and enjoyable. Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the *acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;* "Acknowledgement" : def.- accept, admit, allow, confess, appreciate, recognize, realize.
First, I want to say that I enjoy your preaching. I recently was re baptized in the name of Jesus.. Second, have you ever heard that Jesus was quoting scripture from the psalms when he cried out " why have you forsaken me " ?
@@msolav63 If one has not had the Name of Jesus called out over them at baptism, then one does indeed need to be re-baptized in the Name of Jesus if sins are to be remitted!
@@Brad238 1) Brad Odeman, about the baptism: First, you have to understand that the phrase "in the name of" is not a formula or words that have to be spoken in order for a baptism to be valid, it simply specifies who has given the authority for the baptism. So by baptizing in the name of Jesus, Peter was saying that Jesus gave him the authority and command to do it. Jesus' authority and command came from not only his place as the Son, but also with the authority of the Father and the Holy Spirit. So when Jesus says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit he is saying who authorized the command. Peter baptized under the authority of Jesus, who was given authority by his own power, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. Second, if Jesus is also the Father and Holy Spirit as Oneness claims, what is wrong with baptizing and saying the phrase in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? The answer is: There is nothing wrong.
@Sunny Voices 4 Christ I don't contradict the bible but your interpretation contradicts the bible. Sunny Voices 4 Christ 1) Sunny, the most common prooftext oneness used to prove that Jesus is the FATHER is Isaiah 9:6, which gives Christ the name "Everlasting Father," or rather, "FATHER of eternity" (as Oneness writers admit). The use of "Father" here supposedly identifies Jesus as the "God the Father" of the New Testament. However, this is not the case. A number of proper names in the Old Testament use the term "ab" "in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it." Thus "Abi-Albon" (2 Samuel 23:31), "father of strength," means "strong"; "Abiasaph" (Exodus 6:24), "father of gathering," means "gatherer"; "Abigail" (1 Chronicles 2:16), "father of joy," is a woman's name meaning "exulting"; and so forth. (14) Evidently, then, "Father of eternity" in Isaiah 9:6 means that Jesus is eternal. This would imply, of course, that He is the creator of the ages (cf. Hebrews 1:2; 11:3), but not that Jesus is "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:3). Sunny, when Isaiah 9:6 says that the name of Jesus will be "Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace," it is not affirming that Jesus the Son is God the FATHER, but that he has the essential characteristics of God, those that give him a special emphasis on His person. Furthermore, the Father is affirming in His Son the right that He has over the world. In simple words, Jesus the Son has all of God's attributes, which include His eternity; but this does not make the Son the Father or the Father the Son. Furthermore in ancient Jewish culture, names had meanings. For example, Isaac means "laughter"; Noah means "rest" or "peace" but in this verse, Isaiah is mentioning to us in a prophetic way, the characteristics and nature of the Messiah who was to come. Now, if you believe that the name of Jesus is "Wonderful", why don't you call him by his name "Wonderful" instead of Jesus? However, the text speaks of five characteristics with their respective revelations in each of These. Again, this shows us that these are the characteristics of the Messiah to come, and the fact that the Messiah would be divine. Jesus is the Son of God and not the Father. We cannot make a doctrine of an isolated verse. Also I repeat that we have to be careful when we consider an Old Testament verse to verify a doctrine that is explicitly given or revealed in the New Testament as is Jesus the Son of God, the deity of Christ. From the progress of revelation we must allow the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament and not vice versa. This son who is given to Israel has characteristics as a Prince, as a Counselor as an eternal Father (abi-ad), or more correctly, if we adjust to the Hebrew language, "Father of Eternity", or Father forever for Israel. Here it does not refer or say that Jesus is the Father of the Son. It is a mistake to use this verse to make a doctrine and teach or affirm this. We can see the fatherhood of God reflected throughout the Old Testament. God is a Father to Israel. We can deduce that Isaiah 9: 6 along with other biblical texts had the purpose of demonstrating that absolute fidelity to God was an indispensable need for the chosen people because it was like a relationship between a father and a son. Furthermore, this evidences that in the Hebrew Scriptures it is seen that God is not just a Creator, an invincible warrior or a severe legislator. He is also a loving Father to his people, who loves them as his very dear children. For example, in Jeremiah 3: 1-5, God rebukes his people as a father corrects his children: 3 “If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled? But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers would you now return to me?” declares the Lord. 2 “Look up to the barren heights and see. Is there any place where you have not been ravished? By the roadside you sat waiting for lovers, sat like a nomad in the desert. You have defiled the land with your prostitution and wickedness. 3 Therefore the showers have been withheld, and no spring rains have fallen. Yet you have the brazen look of a prostitute; you refuse to blush with shame. 4 Have you not just called to me: ‘My Father, my friend from my youth, 5 will you always be angry? Will your wrath continue forever?’ This is how you talk, but you do all the evil you can.” Later, in a prophecy that predicts Israel's return from exile, Jeremiah utters another word from God: “They had left crying, but I bring them full of comfort; I will lead them to the streams of water ... Because I am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn " In Jeremiah 31: 9 9 They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel’s father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son. Also, on certain occasions, the people addressed God invoking his favor as Father: “Lord, you are our father; we are the clay, you are our potter; We were all made by yourself! " In Deuteronomy 8: 5-6 God educates and corrects Israel as a father does his son: 5 Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the Lord your God disciplines you. 6 Observe the commands of the Lord your God, walking in obedience to him and revering him. Psalm 103: 13 13 As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him; There are certainly beautiful texts in the Old Testament that present God as Father, but they are not as many as in the New Testament, especially in the Gospels. For Jesus, the reality of God as Father was supreme, a tender Father who is willing to forgive sins. Christ once said to his disciples, in Mark 11:25 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. Isaiah 9:6, this verse is not proof that Jesus is the Father of the Son. This verse only shows us that the son that will be given to Israel is going to be like a loving, protective Father who is going to be with them forever and ever etc, etc. Just like the other verses that I presented to you that speak of God's relationship with Israel as a father. Sunny, Jesus is not the FATHER! Jesus is the Son sent by the FATHER!
@Ronnie Qualls, John 1:1-3 tells us Who God was and thereby gives us the understanding of Who God is. It says explicitly, “The Word WAS GOD”. That answers the question as to Who God WAS. The Word BECAME flesh. It does not say that the Word WAS flesh, but that it BECAME flesh. In John 1:1-3 it says: The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the WORD was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning WITH God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 1:1-3 DOESN'T say: 1 In the beginning was the FATHER, and the FATHER was WITH God (the FATHER), and the FATHER was God (the FATHER). 2 He (the FATHER) was in the beginning WITH God ( the FATHER). Can you can see the error of your dogma! Ronnie Qualls, John 1 tells us Who God was and thereby gives us the understanding of Who God is. It says explicitly, “The Word WAS GOD”. That answers the question as to Who God WAS. The Word BECAME flesh. It does not say that the Word WAS flesh, but that it BECAME flesh. Now we should not think through this so fast and ignore the question as to why God said things this way. He never said that the FATHER became flesh. He told us first what the WORD WAS and only then what the Word BECAME. We should let scripture speak and limit our understandings to what it directly says. And we should not nullify the difference between “was” and “became”. The first speaks of being. The second speaks of process. The WORD was involved in a process of becoming. What does that mean? We must limit our conclusions to what scripture says of the flesh in relation to God. In what way does scipture say that God the Father related to flesh? It says that He was MANIFEST in it, not that he became it. So if we want to understand John 1, we need to use scripture to interpret it for us. That the WORD “became flesh” is to be understood in terms of I Timothy 3:16, that God (or the FATHER) was manifest in it, but the FATHER didn't become flesh. Again: The Bible states that God sent the Son and the Son became flesh". Romans 8:3 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by SENDING HIS OWN SON in the likeness of sinful FLESH, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, Jesus is not the Father who became flesh. Jesus is the "Son or the Word of God who became flesh".
@@SunnyLaraJr. The phrase "father of eternity" in Isaiah 9:6 really means "father of the age to come" in the context of the eternal reign of peace that the kingly figure would preside over. It is NOT calling the child to be born "God the Father."
Are you planning on putting more of these shows in podcast form? I love to be able to listen on apple podcast. Much appreciated and very informative to use when speaking to new converts or “ Reasoning from the scriptures “ with other denominations.
Brother Urshan, this is great. I really enjoy the teaching. I've struggled with how to explain this over the years and this is very helpful. Also, I totally agree that God exists outside of time. Do you think it's possible for Him to call us into a timeless moment? Through dreams and visions? Just a thought.
I know the question isn't directed at me, but I personally believe that the Father can literally do anything, whether it is considered possible or not. But I tend to believe that he sticks to the laws he makes (like physics) because there is a reason for it.
Hello God bless you, I am a trinitarian. One thing that has always concerned me about Oneness theology is that it appears to me to deny that Jesus is the person of the Son of God. For example, in 1 John 4:2, is the Jesus referenced there the person of the Son of God? notice that I am not asking if he is a “manifestation” of God, I am asking if he is the PERSON of the Son or God?
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Hebrews 1:3
Yes, we beleive that Jesus is the person of the son of God. Jesus is the MAN Christ Jesus. He is the Son of God...because Joseph was not His Father, God was. Jesus is NOT God the Son manifest in the flesh. The phrase God the Son is not in scripture. Jesus is God the Father manifest in the flesh. That is why he could tell Phillip in John 14 that "when you have seen me, you have seen the Father."
@@gytmarv123 1) Jeremy Alex Still, The word "omniscient" is not in the bible either but the concept is there. The same goes for the phrase God the Son is not in the bible either but the concept is. in Hebrews 1:8-12 reads: 8 But TO THE SON He says: “Your throne, O GOD, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “YOU, LORD, in the BEGINNING laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11 They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; 12 Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.” Jeremy Alex Still, in Hebrews 1:8 The FATHER called the Son, God. Look back to verse 8, "To the Son he says "God is talking to his Son". Next (still verse 8) there is a quotation that begins, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever." God (the FATHER) is calling his Son "O God". This is followed by a second quotation in verse 10, "You LORD in the beginning "God is calling his Son "LORD". We see that the Father called His Son, “God” by saying “Your throne, O God” will last FOREVER. It’s obvious that the Father IS NOT the same person as the Son. It’s also obvious that the FATHER is also the Son’s God (“therefore God, your God”). This can only make sense if “God is referring to the Son” The point is God the FATHER is talking to the Son and not to himself. The FATHER calling someone else God is an implication that the person/individual being addressed is God, but it's also not the same person/individual that is speaking (why would God speak to himself yet treat himself as another person/individual?) I conclude therefore that since GOD the FATHER is addressing HIS SON AS "GOD" we must consider HIS SON TO BE “GOD”, just as GOD THE FATHER considers himself to be GOD. Hence, Hebrews 1:2 teaches that the Son of God was instrumentally involved in the work of creation. Philippians 2:5-10. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in CHRIST JESUS, 6 WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD did not consider it robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD, 7 but MADE HIMSELF of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 THEREFORE GOD also has highly exalted HIM and given HIM the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those in HEAVEN, and of those on EARTH, and of those UNDER THE EARTH, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER. Paul says "He was in the form of God" employing a turn of speech which throws emphasis upon our Lord's possession of the specific quality of God. "Form" is a term wich expresses the sum of those characterizing qualities which make a thing the precisely thing that it is. When Our Lord is said to be in "the form of God," therefore, HE is declared to be all that God IS, to possess the whole fullness of attributes which make God, God. As almost every scholar in church history has seen it, this passages teaches exactly the same thing as John 1:1-14. Jesus was equal with God the Father (see v 9-11), he was with the Father, and he was himself " by nature God". But he did not cling to this divine status but rather" emptied himself" to take on "the very nature of a slave". Jeremy Alex Still, is the SON GOD? The answer is: YES. THE SON IS GOD or GOD THE SON ( which means the same).
@@gytmarv123 2) Jeremy Alex Still, in john 14:9 it says: 9 jesus saith unto him, have i been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the father; and how sayest thou then, show us the father? Many oneness presents this verse to try to show that the father and the son are the same but this doesn't mean or imply that they are. let it be the same word that interprets, clarifies and brings light to what is not clear. to understand better, let's see an example where jesus uses the same type of expression: in luke 10:16 it says: he who hears you hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me; and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me. this verse speaks or refers between us, jesus and the one who sent jesus. if we applied the idea that you have been taught in this other passage, we would have to deduce that you and all the other christians are the same jesus. this would be completely absurd. here are other examples: jesus tells us in: john 6:46 46 not that anyone has seen the father, except he who is from god; he has seen the father. john 1:18 18 no one has seen god at any time. the only begotten son, who is in the bosom of the father, he has declared him. Jesus is not the FATHER, Jesus is the Son sent by the FATHER.
@@gytmarv123 3) Jeremy Alex Still, In Revelation 1: 1-2 says: 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. WHO IS THIS GOD that gave the revelation to Jesus Christ while Christ was in heaven? Oneness believ that when Jesus is in heaven he is the Father but when he is on earth he is the Son but here you can realize the flaws in you belief or dogma because Jesus and the Father are BOTH mentioned in heaven. This revelation is unique in the New Testament in that it is not simply "inspired by God", it actually comes directly from God, partly given by oracle and partly by vision. There is a very clear delineation that John makes between God and Jesus Christ. We are clearly told that God gave this vision to Jesus Christ. How are we going to take this? If we follow the oneness view of God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are supposedly Jesus Christ then why is the distinctive mention of God and Jesus Christ separated from each other? Tell me why Jesus is NOT the author of the Revelation vision at all, but God is? Or, according to Oneness thinking, could this mean that Jesus Christ created the visions and then passed them on to himself? What we read is that God is the author who gives the visions to Jesus, who is but 2nd in a long chain of 5 steps; the fifth step being the Believer who hears and/or reads the Book of Revelation. The oracles and visions begin with God (the Father), are passed along to Jesus the Son, then to angels, angels to John, and then finally to us in written form. Jeremy Alex Still, Jesus said to Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My FATHER; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, and to MY GOD and YOUR GOD.’ ” (John 20:17) Again, who is this FATHER and who is this God Jesus is referring to? Is he going to ASCEND TO HIMSELF? Jesus also said that he has a Father and a God (John 20:17). Of course Jesus the Son or the Word is God but Jesus is NOT the Father. Jesus is the Son.
For Trinitarians to view the SON as merely a human being does not ascribe the honor to the SON that is due to him. The disciples worshipped the SON in a religious context as a divine figure. In Matthew 14:33 it says: 33 Then those who were in the boat came and WORSHIPPED Him, saying, “Truly You are the SON of God.” For us to refuse to honor the SON is to refuse to honor God. That is why Jesus said in John 5:22-23 22 For the FATHER judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the SON, 23 that all should honor the SON just as they honor the FATHER. He who does not honor the SON does not honor the FATHER who sent Him. In John 9:35-41says: True Vision and True Blindness 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the SON OF GOD?” 36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both SEEN HIM AND it is HE WHO IS TALKING WITH YOU.” 38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he WORSHIPED Him. 39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.” 40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?” 41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains. Everyone who does not honor the SON in exactly the same way that they honor the FATHER fails to honor the FATHER. It would seem then that those who fail to honor the SON fall under the condemnation of 1 John 2:23, which reads, “Whoever denies the SON does not have the FATHER; the one who confesses the SON has the FATHER also.” Johny Garcia, not only is the FATHER is God and is worshipped, the Son is also God and is worshipped too.
@Jonny Garcia I do not agree with falsely accusing any group but how many times do oneness accuse Trinitarians of being pagan? Many time. I have read and researched Oneness theology for many years which is why I am so strongly opposed to it. I have not inherited this belief nor have I been taught to reject Oneness theology mindlessly. After a lifetime of studying the scriptures, I am convinced that trinitarian theology is both logical and biblical. Although I certainly do find your attitude refreshing, you are in the minority of Oneness believers. On many forums such as this one, I've been called Godless, blasphemous, pagan or polytheistic, and had my salvation questioned or even flat out denied by the majority of Oneness believers I've encountered. Those Oneness believers based their attacks on their belief that only Oneness believers understand the "mystery" of God and are eligible for salvation. This is not only a lie, but it voids the sacrifice of the cross since salvation is now based on understanding the "mystery or the key" (which is not biblical in any way). That is a very dangerous line of thinking. In over 10 years I have only found one or two oneness' who have accepted that Trinitarians are not polytheists. They are only a minority. The majority of Oneness followers reject that we also believe in ONE God, despite being told this many many times over. However, they are in line with the hypocritical belief that God can be THREE modes or manifestations, but not THREE persons. A) Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD THREE PERSONS or TRINITY of PERSONS. B) oneness believe in ONE GOD THREE modes/manifestations or TRINITY of modes. I can't wrap my head around the splitting of hairs Oneness followers have on this issue. Can you explain to me how it is that oneness are not Trinitarians? Of course oneness are Trinitarians.
How would God have fulfilled OT prophecy if John the baptist didn't hear God speak nor saw the Spirit descend on Christ? One God who manifested himself in the flesh, spoke from heaven and descended on Christ. Should God have just done nothing instead?
God fills all time and space He could be all in Jesus and still be in all places how he does that goes beyond all human conception because He is not like us in that we are limited in what we can do yet He is unlimited in what He can do
I like the explanation of the US...but the flaw i see in it us that Jesus is the image of God. Jesus the man according to Hebrew 1 is the express image of God and we accepting him become sons of god or images of god... And i believe we are images because of our flesh and if Jesus the man is already flesh the he wouldn't say we are made in his image... Not sur if you get my point... Would love to hear more on this subject, because I believe recently I heard you soeak on the royal WE
@@msolav63 Jesus is the ONE God in the flesh. Your opinion is not mentioned in scripture. 1 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV) 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
Hold the cell phone! I feel like my theory of Jesus is relevant to what your talking about. Jesus born a man (thee manifestation of God ) was bound by the laws of this existence, hence was with out sin (prayer, acknowledged The law of Moses, ect. ) Then ascended to heaven and entered the realm of eternity. But by the same laws would not and could not reveal himself in our historical past? Except through prophecy 🤯 holy Moses !!!
When Jesus said "Before Abraham, I am " meant that Jesus was foreordained BEFORE the existence of Abraham. Read Genesis 3:15 God foretold the coming of Jesus--before Abraham was even born. So, it’s absurd to accept one meaning of a scripture as the final definitive. Genesis 3:15 was a prophetic promise of God about the coming of Jesus Christ. After Adam and Eve sinned God spoke of sending Jesus to be the propitiation for the sins of mankind. Jesus' fate and his destiny were foreordained and predetermined by God as the atonement for the sins of mankind before the world was created. And before Abraham was born. 1 Peter 1:20 “Who (Jesus) verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”
@Hargis Pennington Hargis Pennington, oneness attempt to utilize John to show that the title of "Son" refers only to the temporal humanity of Christ as "the only begotten" Son of God. For you the fact that the Son is "begotten," it is argued, rules our his being eternal. In Galatians 4:4 it says: 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, Concerning Paul's statement that God sent "born of a woman" we need to point out that this clause most readily refers to the conditions of the Son's sending not to the nature of the Son himself. The verse does not say that God "created" his Son by having him born of a woman. It merely says that God sent his Son, born of a woman. Hargis Pennington, there is nothing in this that is at all in tension with the truth of Christ's real pre-existence something we have already seen Paul elsewhere affirm. The human birth of Christ is simply an aspect of "the very nature of a servant" he voluntarily assumed in "being made in human likeness " In Philippians 2:7 it says: 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. "The Word became flesh" (John 1: 14 cf. Tim 3:16) 1 Timothy 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. The Son did not begin to exist with this enfleshment. Oneness wrongly believes, while Jesus Christ existed from eternity as the "Father", Jesus Christ the Son had a definite beginning in time. A beginning that dates from his conceptions the womb of Mary. As always in support of this position, oneness cite a number of biblical text, but there are of course places where the Scripture teach that Jesus Christ, as the Son of God, preexisted with the Father. For example, various passages in the Gospel John seem to teach the Son's preexistence, for example: In John 17:1-5 it says: Jesus Prays for Himself 17 JESUS SPOKE THESE WORDS, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “FATHER, the hour has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON also may glorify YOU, 2 as You have given HIM AUTHORITY over all flesh, that HE should give eternal life to as many as YOU have given HIM. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT. 4 I have glorified YOU on the earth. I have finished the work which YOU HAVE GIVEN ME TO DO. 5 And now, O FATHER, GLORIFY ME TOGETHER WITH YOURSELF, WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. Oneness believe that Jesus only existed when HE came into the world but here Jesus clearly tells us that HE ALREADY EXISTED WITH THE FATHER BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. In these verses Jesus is not saying nor is he implying that HE was a THOUGHT OR A FUTURISTIC THOUGHT OR A PLAN IN THE MIND OF GOD. Nor Jesus said that he was with the Father in his thoughts. He is claiming that HE already existed alongside or WITH THE FATHER BEFORE the foundation of the world. WITH THE FATHER: The Bible doesn't say that Jesus pre-existed His incarnation as the FATHER, but always that HE was WITH THE FATHER: "And now, O FATHER, glorify ME together WITH YOURSELF, WITH the glory which I had WITH YOU before the world was." (John 17:5) In John 1:1-3 it says: The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the WORD, and THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, and the WORD was God. 2 HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD . 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In John 1:1-3 tells us that the: “WORD, WAS IN THE BEGINNING” and “THE WORD WAS WITH GOD" and THE WORD WAS GOD, and THE WORD WAS THE CREATOR.” In John 8:38 it says: "I speak what I have seen WITH MY FATHER, and you do what you have seen with your father." 1 John 1:1-3. Eternal Life 1 THAT WHICH WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, which we have HEARD, which we have SEEN WITH OUR EYES , which we have LOOKED UPON, and OUR HANDS have handled, concerning the Word of life 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER AND WAS MANIFESTED TO US 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is WITH THE FATHER AND WITH HIS SON Jesus Christ." Again: Jesus is not the FATHER in the flesh nor the Son pre-existed as the FATHER. Jesus the BEGOTTEN SON or the WORD of God, WAS WITH THE FATHER and became flesh! Hargis Pennington, if you don't know who is this WORD that was in the BEGINNING WITH GOD, just read John 1 Verses 14-18 where it's reveal to us that the WORD was “THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE FATHER.” The Word Becomes Flesh 14 And the WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, AND WE beheld His GLORY, the GLORY as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of HIM and cried out, saying, “This was HE OF whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for HE WAS BEFORE me.’ ” 16 And of HIS FULLNESS we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, BUT GRACE and TRUTH CAME THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. 18 No one has seen GOD at any time. THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, who is in the BOSOM of the FATHER, He has DECLARED HIM. In 2 John 3 it says: 3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you FROM GOD THE FATHER AND FROM the Lord Jesus Christ, THE SON OF THE FATHER, IN TRUTH AND LOVE. In Colossians 1:12-19 it says: 12 Giving thanks unto the FATHER, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear SON: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 FOR IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT in him should all fulness dwell; The bible specify that Jesus is called the WORD, the BEGOTTEN SON who was WITH the FATHER before the foundation of the World and was sent to world by the FATHER. However, our human concept of “son” is the birth of a boy child. But, the Bible clearly states that Christ’s pre-existence was since the BEGINNING. Jesus the BEGOTTEN SON or the WORD of God became flesh, the FATHER did not became flesh. Hargis Pennington, Jesus is God but HE is NOT the FATHER. Jesus is the BEGOTTEN SON or the WORD of God who was WITH the FATHER before the world was (John 17-1-5).
Jesus never said " I am God the Father" because Jesus was the Son of God. Urshan sometimes you talk like God and Jesus are the same--but then other times you speak as though they are separate. THAT is confusing--and also unscriptural.
Jesus said, "He that has seen Me HAS SEEN THE FATHER (John 14:7-9) and "I and my Father ARE ONE (John 10:30) Jesus is the EVERLASTING FATHER (Isaiah 9:6) manifest in the flesh (John 1:1-3,14; 1 Timothy 3:16) and there is ONLY ONE GOD, not three (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 1:11,17, 18; 4:11). The Son was BEGOTTEN, not eternal; Jesus always existed as GOD but the SON was begotten, and manifest IN FLESH to pay the price for our sins. The NAME...NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is JESUS, He is not "second" to ANYONE, and you trinitarians are in danger eternally by calling Jesus the "second person in the godhead" because you are saying He is LESS THAN DEITY as the Jehovah's Witnesses claim, that Jesus is a lesser or demi God!
Do you guys know that oneness are TRINITARIANS? The majority of Oneness followers reject that we also believe in ONE God, despite being told this many many times over. However, they are in line with the hypocritical belief that God can be THREE modes or manifestations, but not THREE persons. A) Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD THREE PERSONS or TRINITY of PERSONS. B) Oneness believe in ONE GOD THREE modes/manifestations or TRINITY of modes. I can't wrap my head around the splitting of hairs Oneness followers have on this issue. Can someone explain to me how it is that oneness are not Trinitarians? Of course they are Trinitarians. THE TRINITY IS INEVITABLE!
So, who coined the word trinitas or trinity and who formulated the doctrine of the trinity? God is an absolute numerical one. God the Father became his own Son. Jesus is the manifestation and personification of God the Father in human form
Do you know oneness are TRINITARIANS? The majority of Oneness followers reject that we also believe in ONE God, despite being told this many many times over. However, they are in line with the hypocritical belief that God can be THREE modes or manifestations, but not THREE persons. A) Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD THREE PERSONS or TRINITY of PERSONS. B) Oneness believe in ONE GOD THREE modes/manifestations or TRINITY of modes. I can't wrap my head around the splitting of hairs Oneness followers have on this issue. Can someone explain to me how it is that oneness are not Trinitarians? Of course they are Trinitarians. The Trinity is inevitable!
@bluray1080jp blueray1080jp, trinitarians know who is Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God sent by the FATHER. Jesus is God but Jesus is not the Father. You can also go to a Jewish person and tell him that Jesus is God or the Father and see what they say. Do you remember when Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees that he was the Son of God? bluray1080jp, In Revelation 1: 1-2 it says: 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. WHO IS THIS GOD that gave the revelation to Jesus Christ while Christ was in heaven? Your oneness dogma teaches when Jesus is in heaven he is the Father but when he is on earth he is the Son but here you can realize the flaws in you belief or dogma because Jesus and the Father are both in heaven. This revelation is unique in the New Testament in that it is not simply "inspired by God", it actually comes directly from God, partly given by oracle and partly by vision. There is a very clear delineation that John makes between God and Jesus Christ. We are clearly told that God gave this vision to Jesus Christ. How are we going to take this? If we follow the oneness view of God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are supposedly Jesus Christ then why is the distinctive mention of God and Jesus Christ separated from each other? Tell me why Jesus is NOT the author of the Revelation vision at all, but God is? Or, according to Oneness thinking, could this mean that Jesus Christ created the visions and then passed them on to himself? What we read is that God is the author who gives the visions to Jesus, who is but 2nd in a long chain of 5 steps; the fifth step being the Believer who hears and/or reads the Book of Revelation. The oracles and visions begin with God (the Father), are passed along to Jesus the Son, then to angels, angels to John, and then finally to us in written form. bluray1080jp, Jesus said to Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My FATHER; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, and to MY GOD and YOUR GOD.’ ” (John 20:17) Again, who is this FATHER and who is this God Jesus is referring to? Is he going to ASCEND TO HIMSELF? bluray1080jp, of course Jesus the Son or the Word is God but Jesus is NOT the Father.
100% of the onenesses deny that they are Trinitarians even though they are Trinitarians. Trinitarians believe in One God THREE Persons nor TRINITY of Persons. Oneness believe in One God THREE modes (THREE manifestations) or TRINITY of modes, lol. Oneness are Trinitarians! The Trinity is inevitable!
@Blueray1080jp 1) bluray1080jp, good luck saying that Jesus is the Father. bluray1080jp, who has not heard the 'Oneness' Pentecostal battle-cry, 'There is one throne in heaven and Jesus is sitting on it!': "Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne." (Revelation 4:2). But don't let oneness slam the book shut after the "one sat on the throne" of 4:2. You won't believe whose deity they are about to deny! Keep reading. Who should amble by and approach the throne, but a Lamb?: "And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne." (Revelation 5:6-7). Jesus Chris is the Lamb that was slain: "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, 'Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'" (John 1:29). This Lamb was slain, yet lives: "...These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive." (Revelation 2:8). At this point let me ask you and our 'Oneness' friends whether they think the Lamb that was slain is God the Father incarnate or Jesus the Son who was sent by the FATHER? There is only one Jesus, this very Lamb, and that one Jesus is both fully man and fully God. He was slain, yet lives. Because the 'Oneness' Pentecostals claim to accept the traditional Christian belief that Jesus Christ is God, some may be surprised when our friends deny that the Lamb is God, explaining he is mere '
2) blueray1080jp, who is the ANCIENT Of DAYS? and who is ONE LIKE A SON OF MAN? A firm connection between the New Testament book of Revelation and various Old Testament books is needed for a proper interpretation. Daniel 7:9-10 9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the ANCIENT OF DAYS took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. Blueray1080jp, WHO is THE ANCIENT OF DAYS? Answer: God the FATHER. Daniel 7:13 says: 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was ONE LIKE A SON OF MAN, coming with the clouds of heaven. HE approached the ANCIENT OF DAYS and was led into his presence. 14 HE WAS GIVEN AUTHORITY, GLORY AND SOVEREIGN POWER; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped HIM. HIS dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and HIS kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. bluray1080jp, who is the Son of Man? Answers: This is Jesus. Daniel 7:13 speaks of two distinct divine figures: THE ANCIENT ONE and the "ONE AS A SON OF MAN." It should be understood that the original Aramaic in which it was written says bar-enash, which directly correlates with the Hebrew bene-adam; both simply mean to be human. That is, the son of man is the Aramaic and Hebrew way of saying to be human. And those terms mean absolutely nothing more or less than that. So, in Daniel's vision, does he see this one as a SON OF MAN coming on the clouds of heaven and see another as the ANCIENT OF DAYS. The ANCIENT OF DAYS (God the Father) gave the SON OF MAN (Jesus) rulership, glory, and a kingdom over all the inhabitants of the country and of all the Earth. bluray1080jp, Daniel sees a human being coming on the clouds and yet Daniel knows that he cannot be a human being, so he writes "ONE AS A SON OF MAN"; or better "One as a human being". Then Daniel was given a divine prophetic vision that introduced a new and confusing element of the term SON OF MAN. Daniel had received a vision of a future divine / human MESSIAH, but did not understand. A new theological concept was born here in Daniel in Israelite religious understanding; The theological concept of a human-like deity, referred to as the SON OF MAN, who is directly associated with JEHOVAH, THE GOD OF ISRAEL. Such a concept would not have raised an eyebrow among pagan Gentiles because all Gentiles viewed their gods and goddesses as human-looking deities, but the Israelites had spent centuries punished in the most terrible way by the God of Israel for harboring such thoughts because they manifested themselves in idolatry. This was a very difficult concept for Daniel to digest to the point that it made him pale. As modern believers, we have an advantage over Daniel. Around 600 years after Daniel, his bewildering vision began to come into focus. Daniel provided several attributes that would help identify this special SON OF MAN. Those attributes are: He is human, but in some inexplicable way He is also divine. He will come in the clouds. He will occupy a throne, in heaven. THE ANCIENT OF DAYS delegates dominion over the entire planet, and over all, to this unique SON OF MAN. These attributes that we find of the concept of the Son of Man in Daniel 7, we find them in Jesus of Nazareth. So what we learn is that, ironically, it's the concept of the SON OF MAN and JESUS' claim that HE is that SON OF MAN that identifies HIM as divine. What is significant about this passage is that the Son of Man is not the only divine figure in the vision. In Daniel 7:9-10, there is also the Ancient of Days, who is clearly depicted as God. There are two persons who are God and yet they are distinct from one another. bluray1080jp, The fact that Jesus the Son has similar characteristics with the Father does not mean that he is the same Father. If so, the Bible would not make a distinction between the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is the Lamb, the Word, the Son of God who was sent by the FATHER.
I agree Brother Urshan. You teach it so well. It doesn't have to be complicated but I understand God has to give the revelation. I came to the truth through baptism in Jesus name. I was raised Baptist but when I started to read the word myself and seek for the truth God brought me to the truth through learning about Jesus name baptism.
God is not like water, water is like God!!!-Nathan Urshan My, my, my!!!
23:00 awesome this is exactly the way I’ve always taught it. So overjoyed there’s someone else out there who explains it the same exact way. Thanks so much!
Thank you !!!
This Is Amazing.
Loving your teaching Sir, Thanks for taking time to sew it.
One god doesn't pray to another god, awesome explanation.
And God does not pray to himself either.
@@ryanprovost4828 The Man Christ Jesus was quite simply speaking to his father, just as we do when we pray!
@@Brad238 I agree with you
@@Brad238
100% of oneness wrongly believe that Jesus is the Father.
Jesus is not the FATHER. Jesus is the Son sent by the FATHER.
@@ryanprovost4828
Are you saying Jesus is not God?
In Titus 2:13 it says:
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great GOD and Savior Jesus Christ,
John 20:28-29
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
What are we going to do with the above verses? Deny them? I hope not my friend.
Another cracking lesson. Thank you, bless you
Amen.
Love the podcast and the ministry of FPC. I would like to know the singer/artist and name of the song that plays during th intro. Thanks
This was much appreciated!
Excellent
Muy bien, muy bien
clearer than water God is not like water water is like God
Trinitarians believe in One God THREE Persons nor TRINITY of Persons.
Oneness believe in One God THREE modes (THREE manifestations) or TRINITY of modes, Lol.
Oneness are Trinitarians! The Trinity is inevitable!
Y'all need to listen to his latest sermon.
"Doctrines of devils". What a blessing
Nourishing and enjoyable.
Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the *acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;*
"Acknowledgement" : def.- accept, admit, allow, confess, appreciate, recognize, realize.
Amen
Bro Urshan the way I describe the God head there's not three persons but three positions of one God.
First, I want to say that I enjoy your preaching. I recently was re baptized in the name of Jesus..
Second, have you ever heard that Jesus was quoting scripture from the psalms when he cried out " why have you forsaken me " ?
Psalm 22 . A prophecy of Christ being crucified.
Yup
There is no need to be rebaptized. Jesus said in the name of the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT. Matthew 28:19
@@msolav63 If one has not had the Name of Jesus called out over them at baptism, then one does indeed need to be re-baptized in the Name of Jesus if sins are to be remitted!
@@Brad238
1) Brad Odeman, about the baptism:
First, you have to understand that the phrase "in the name of" is not a formula or words that have to be spoken in order for a baptism to be valid, it simply specifies who has given the authority for the baptism. So by baptizing in the name of Jesus, Peter was saying that Jesus gave him the authority and command to do it. Jesus' authority and command came from not only his place as the Son, but also with the authority of the Father and the Holy Spirit. So when Jesus says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit he is saying who authorized the command. Peter baptized under the authority of Jesus, who was given authority by his own power, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.
Second, if Jesus is also the Father and Holy Spirit as Oneness claims, what is wrong with baptizing and saying the phrase in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? The answer is: There is nothing wrong.
Vernon Magee a trinitarian Pastor and Bible teacher said, if a God prays to another God he ungods himself.
Jesus is God, God manifested in the flesh
Jesus is God, but Jesus is not the FATHER.
@@msolav63that contracts Isaiah 9:6, I think I’ll believe the Bible instead of you,.
@Sunny Voices 4 Christ
I don't contradict the bible but your interpretation contradicts the bible.
Sunny Voices 4 Christ
1) Sunny, the most common prooftext oneness used to prove that Jesus is the FATHER is Isaiah 9:6, which gives Christ the name "Everlasting Father," or rather, "FATHER of eternity" (as Oneness writers admit).
The use of "Father" here supposedly identifies Jesus as the "God the Father" of the New Testament. However, this is not the case. A number of proper names in the Old Testament use the term "ab" "in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it."
Thus "Abi-Albon" (2 Samuel 23:31), "father of strength," means "strong"; "Abiasaph" (Exodus 6:24), "father of gathering," means "gatherer"; "Abigail"
(1 Chronicles 2:16), "father of joy," is a woman's name meaning "exulting"; and so forth. (14) Evidently, then, "Father of eternity" in Isaiah 9:6 means that Jesus is eternal. This would imply, of course, that He is the creator of the ages (cf. Hebrews 1:2; 11:3), but not that Jesus is "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Corinthians 1:3).
Sunny, when Isaiah 9:6 says that the name of Jesus will be "Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace," it is not affirming that Jesus the Son is God the FATHER, but that he has the essential characteristics of God, those that give him a special emphasis on His person. Furthermore, the Father is affirming in His Son the right that He has over the world. In simple words, Jesus the Son has all of God's attributes, which include His eternity; but this does not make the Son the Father or the Father the Son.
Furthermore in ancient Jewish culture, names had meanings. For example, Isaac means "laughter"; Noah means "rest" or "peace" but in this verse, Isaiah is mentioning to us in a prophetic way, the characteristics and nature of the Messiah who was to come.
Now, if you believe that the name of Jesus is "Wonderful", why don't you call him by his name "Wonderful" instead of Jesus? However, the text speaks of five characteristics with their respective revelations in each of These. Again, this shows us that these are the characteristics of the Messiah to come, and the fact that the Messiah would be divine. Jesus is the Son of God and not the Father. We cannot make a doctrine of an isolated verse. Also I repeat that we have to be careful when we consider an Old Testament verse to verify a doctrine that is explicitly given or revealed in the New Testament as is Jesus the Son of God, the deity of Christ. From the progress of revelation we must allow the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament and not vice versa.
This son who is given to Israel has characteristics as a Prince, as a Counselor as an eternal Father (abi-ad), or more correctly, if we adjust to the Hebrew language, "Father of Eternity", or Father forever for Israel. Here it does not refer or say that Jesus is the Father of the Son. It is a mistake to use this verse to make a doctrine and teach or affirm this.
We can see the fatherhood of God reflected throughout the Old Testament. God is a Father to Israel. We can deduce that Isaiah 9: 6 along with other biblical texts had the purpose of demonstrating that absolute fidelity to God was an indispensable need for the chosen people because it was like a relationship between a father and a son. Furthermore, this evidences that in the Hebrew Scriptures it is seen that God is not just a Creator, an invincible warrior or a severe legislator. He is also a loving Father to his people, who loves them as his very dear children.
For example, in Jeremiah 3: 1-5, God rebukes his people as a father corrects his children:
3 “If a man divorces his wife
and she leaves him and marries another man,
should he return to her again?
Would not the land be completely defiled?
But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers
would you now return to me?”
declares the Lord.
2 “Look up to the barren heights and see.
Is there any place where you have not been ravished?
By the roadside you sat waiting for lovers,
sat like a nomad in the desert.
You have defiled the land
with your prostitution and wickedness.
3 Therefore the showers have been withheld,
and no spring rains have fallen.
Yet you have the brazen look of a prostitute;
you refuse to blush with shame.
4 Have you not just called to me:
‘My Father, my friend from my youth,
5 will you always be angry?
Will your wrath continue forever?’
This is how you talk,
but you do all the evil you can.”
Later, in a prophecy that predicts Israel's return from exile, Jeremiah utters another word from God: “They had left crying, but I bring them full of comfort; I will lead them to the streams of water ... Because I am a father to Israel and Ephraim is my firstborn "
In Jeremiah 31: 9
9 They will come with weeping;
they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel’s father,
and Ephraim is my firstborn son.
Also, on certain occasions, the people addressed God invoking his favor as Father: “Lord, you are our father; we are the clay, you are our potter; We were all made by yourself! "
In Deuteronomy 8: 5-6 God educates and corrects Israel as a father does his son:
5 Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the Lord your God disciplines you.
6 Observe the commands of the Lord your God, walking in obedience to him and revering him.
Psalm 103: 13
13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;
There are certainly beautiful texts in the Old Testament that present God as Father, but they are not as many as in the New Testament, especially in the Gospels. For Jesus, the reality of God as Father was supreme, a tender Father who is willing to forgive sins. Christ once said to his disciples, in Mark 11:25
25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Isaiah 9:6, this verse is not proof that Jesus is the Father of the Son. This verse only shows us that the son that will be given to Israel is going to be like a loving, protective Father who is going to be with them forever and ever etc, etc. Just like the other verses that I presented to you that speak of God's relationship with Israel as a father.
Sunny, Jesus is not the FATHER! Jesus is the Son sent by the FATHER!
@Ronnie Qualls, John 1:1-3 tells us Who God was and thereby gives us the understanding of Who God is. It says explicitly, “The Word WAS GOD”. That answers the question as to Who God WAS.
The Word BECAME flesh. It does not say that the Word WAS flesh, but that it BECAME flesh.
In John 1:1-3 it says:
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the WORD was WITH God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning WITH God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
John 1:1-3 DOESN'T say:
1 In the beginning was the FATHER, and the FATHER was WITH God (the FATHER), and the FATHER was God (the FATHER).
2 He (the FATHER) was in the beginning WITH God ( the FATHER).
Can you can see the error of your dogma!
Ronnie Qualls, John 1 tells us Who God was and thereby gives us the understanding of Who God is. It says explicitly, “The Word WAS GOD”. That answers the question as to Who God WAS.
The Word BECAME flesh. It does not say that the Word WAS flesh, but that it BECAME flesh.
Now we should not think through this so fast and ignore the question as to why God said things this way. He never said that the FATHER became flesh. He told us first what the WORD WAS and only then what the Word BECAME. We should let scripture speak and limit our understandings to what it directly says. And we should not nullify the difference between “was” and “became”. The first speaks of being. The second speaks of process. The WORD was involved in a process of becoming. What does that mean? We must limit our conclusions to what scripture says of the flesh in relation to God. In what way does scipture say that God the Father related to flesh? It says that He was MANIFEST in it, not that he became it. So if we want to understand John 1, we need to use scripture to interpret it for us. That the WORD “became flesh” is to be understood in terms of I Timothy 3:16, that God (or the FATHER) was manifest in it, but the FATHER didn't become flesh.
Again: The Bible states that God sent the Son and the Son became flesh".
Romans 8:3
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by SENDING HIS OWN SON in the likeness of sinful FLESH, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
Jesus is not the Father who became flesh. Jesus is the "Son or the Word of God who became flesh".
@@SunnyLaraJr. The phrase "father of eternity" in Isaiah 9:6 really means "father of the age to come" in the context of the eternal reign of peace that the kingly figure would preside over. It is NOT calling the child to be born "God the Father."
Are you planning on putting more of these shows in podcast form? I love to be able to listen on apple podcast. Much appreciated and very informative to use when speaking to new converts or “ Reasoning from the scriptures “ with other denominations.
Thank you! Our episodes are available on Apple Podcast.
Brother Urshan, this is great. I really enjoy the teaching. I've struggled with how to explain this over the years and this is very helpful. Also, I totally agree that God exists outside of time. Do you think it's possible for Him to call us into a timeless moment? Through dreams and visions? Just a thought.
I know the question isn't directed at me, but I personally believe that the Father can literally do anything, whether it is considered possible or not. But I tend to believe that he sticks to the laws he makes (like physics) because there is a reason for it.
Hello God bless you, I am a trinitarian. One thing that has always concerned me about Oneness theology is that it appears to me to deny that Jesus is the person of the Son of God. For example, in 1 John 4:2, is the Jesus referenced there the person of the Son of God? notice that I am not asking if he is a “manifestation” of God, I am asking if he is the PERSON of the Son or God?
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, Hebrews 1:3
Yes, we beleive that Jesus is the person of the son of God. Jesus is the MAN Christ Jesus. He is the Son of God...because Joseph was not His Father, God was. Jesus is NOT God the Son manifest in the flesh. The phrase God the Son is not in scripture. Jesus is God the Father manifest in the flesh. That is why he could tell Phillip in John 14 that "when you have seen me, you have seen the Father."
@@gytmarv123
1) Jeremy Alex Still, The word "omniscient" is not in the bible either but the concept is there. The same goes for the phrase God the Son is not in the bible either but the concept is.
in Hebrews 1:8-12 reads:
8 But TO THE SON He says:
“Your throne, O GOD, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
10 And: “YOU, LORD, in the BEGINNING laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
Jeremy Alex Still, in Hebrews 1:8 The FATHER called the Son, God.
Look back to verse 8, "To the Son he says "God is talking to his Son".
Next (still verse 8) there is a quotation that begins, "Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever." God (the FATHER) is calling his Son "O God".
This is followed by a second quotation in verse 10, "You LORD in the beginning "God is calling his Son "LORD".
We see that the Father called His Son, “God” by saying “Your throne, O God” will last FOREVER. It’s obvious that the Father IS NOT the same person as the Son. It’s also obvious that the FATHER is also the Son’s God (“therefore God, your God”). This can only make sense if “God is referring to the Son” The point is God the FATHER is talking to the Son and not to himself.
The FATHER calling someone else God is an implication that the person/individual being addressed is God, but it's also not the same person/individual that is speaking (why would God speak to himself yet treat himself as another person/individual?)
I conclude therefore that since GOD the FATHER is addressing HIS SON AS "GOD" we must consider HIS SON TO BE “GOD”, just as GOD THE FATHER considers himself to be GOD.
Hence, Hebrews 1:2 teaches that the Son of God was instrumentally involved in the work of creation.
Philippians 2:5-10.
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in CHRIST JESUS,
6 WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD did not consider it robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD,
7 but MADE HIMSELF of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 THEREFORE GOD also has highly exalted HIM and given HIM the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those in HEAVEN, and of those on EARTH, and of those UNDER THE EARTH,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.
Paul says "He was in the form of God" employing a turn of speech which throws emphasis upon our Lord's possession of the specific quality of God. "Form" is a term wich expresses the sum of those characterizing qualities which make a thing the precisely thing that it is. When Our Lord is said to be in "the form of God," therefore, HE is declared to be all that God IS, to possess the whole fullness of attributes which make God, God.
As almost every scholar in church history has seen it, this passages teaches exactly the same thing as John 1:1-14. Jesus was equal with God the Father (see v 9-11), he was with the Father, and he was himself " by nature God". But he did not cling to this divine status but rather" emptied himself" to take on "the very nature of a slave".
Jeremy Alex Still, is the SON GOD? The answer is: YES. THE SON IS GOD or GOD THE SON ( which means the same).
@@gytmarv123
2) Jeremy Alex Still, in john 14:9 it says:
9 jesus saith unto him, have i been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the father; and how sayest thou then, show us the father?
Many oneness presents this verse to try to show that the father and the son are the same but this doesn't mean or imply that they are. let it be the same word that interprets, clarifies and brings light to what is not clear.
to understand better, let's see an example where jesus uses the same type of expression:
in luke 10:16 it says:
he who hears you hears me; and he who rejects you rejects me; and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.
this verse speaks or refers between us, jesus and the one who sent jesus.
if we applied the idea that you have been taught in this other passage, we would have to deduce that you and all the other christians are the same jesus. this would be completely absurd.
here are other examples:
jesus tells us in:
john 6:46
46 not that anyone has seen the father, except he who is from god; he has seen the father.
john 1:18
18 no one has seen god at any time. the only begotten son, who is in the bosom of the father, he has declared him.
Jesus is not the FATHER, Jesus is the Son sent by the FATHER.
@@gytmarv123
3) Jeremy Alex Still, In Revelation 1: 1-2 says:
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2 who testifies to everything he saw that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
WHO IS THIS GOD that gave the revelation to Jesus Christ while Christ was in heaven? Oneness believ that when Jesus is in heaven he is the Father but when he is on earth he is the Son but here you can realize the flaws in you belief or dogma because Jesus and the Father are BOTH mentioned in heaven.
This revelation is unique in the New Testament in that it is not simply "inspired by God", it actually comes directly from God, partly given by oracle and partly by vision. There is a very clear delineation that John makes between God and Jesus Christ. We are clearly told that God gave this vision to Jesus Christ. How are we going to take this?
If we follow the oneness view of God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are supposedly Jesus Christ then why is the distinctive mention of God and Jesus Christ separated from each other? Tell me why Jesus is NOT the author of the Revelation vision at all, but God is? Or, according to Oneness thinking, could this mean that Jesus Christ created the visions and then passed them on to himself?
What we read is that God is the author who gives the visions to Jesus, who is but 2nd in a long chain of 5 steps; the fifth step being the Believer who hears and/or reads the Book of Revelation. The oracles and visions begin with God (the Father), are passed along to Jesus the Son, then to angels, angels to John, and then finally to us in written form.
Jeremy Alex Still, Jesus said to Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My FATHER; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, and to MY GOD and YOUR GOD.’ ” (John 20:17)
Again, who is this FATHER and who is this God Jesus is referring to? Is he going to ASCEND TO HIMSELF?
Jesus also said that he has a Father and a God (John 20:17). Of course Jesus the Son or the Word is God but Jesus is NOT the Father. Jesus is the Son.
I would say God was talking to himself as a man cause remember that verse God doesn't share his glory with another
For Trinitarians to view the SON as merely a human being does not ascribe the honor to the SON that is due to him. The disciples worshipped the SON in a religious context as a divine figure.
In Matthew 14:33 it says:
33 Then those who were in the boat came and WORSHIPPED Him, saying, “Truly You are the SON of God.”
For us to refuse to honor the SON is to refuse to honor God.
That is why Jesus said in John 5:22-23
22 For the FATHER judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the SON,
23 that all should honor the SON just as they honor the FATHER. He who does not honor the SON does not honor the FATHER who sent Him.
In John 9:35-41says:
True Vision and True Blindness
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the SON OF GOD?”
36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both SEEN HIM AND it is HE WHO IS TALKING WITH YOU.”
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he WORSHIPED Him.
39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.”
40 Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, “Are we blind also?”
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.
Everyone who does not honor the SON in exactly the same way that they honor the FATHER fails to honor the FATHER. It would seem then that those who fail to honor the SON fall under the condemnation of 1 John 2:23, which reads, “Whoever denies the SON does not have the FATHER; the one who confesses the SON has the FATHER also.”
Johny Garcia, not only is the FATHER is God and is worshipped, the Son is also God and is worshipped too.
@@msolav63
No
There only one God
That's its
He's invisible
@Jonny Garcia
I do not agree with falsely accusing any group but how many times do oneness accuse Trinitarians of being pagan? Many time.
I have read and researched Oneness theology for many years which is why I am so strongly opposed to it. I have not inherited this belief nor have I been taught to reject Oneness theology mindlessly. After a lifetime of studying the scriptures, I am convinced that trinitarian theology is both logical and biblical. Although I certainly do find your attitude refreshing, you are in the minority of Oneness believers. On many forums such as this one, I've been called Godless, blasphemous, pagan or polytheistic, and had my salvation questioned or even flat out denied by the majority of Oneness believers I've encountered. Those Oneness believers based their attacks on their belief that only Oneness believers understand the "mystery" of God and are eligible for salvation. This is not only a lie, but it voids the sacrifice of the cross since salvation is now based on understanding the "mystery or the key" (which is not biblical in any way). That is a very dangerous line of thinking. In over 10 years I have only found one or two oneness' who have accepted that Trinitarians are not polytheists. They are only a minority. The majority of Oneness followers reject that we also believe in ONE God, despite being told this many many times over. However, they are in line with the hypocritical belief that God can be THREE modes or manifestations, but not THREE persons.
A) Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD THREE PERSONS or TRINITY of PERSONS.
B) oneness believe in ONE GOD THREE modes/manifestations or TRINITY of modes.
I can't wrap my head around the splitting of hairs Oneness followers have on this issue.
Can you explain to me how it is that oneness are not Trinitarians? Of course oneness are Trinitarians.
Are you saying God had a human spirt
How would God have fulfilled OT prophecy if John the baptist didn't hear God speak nor saw the Spirit descend on Christ?
One God who manifested himself in the flesh, spoke from heaven and descended on Christ. Should God have just done nothing instead?
God fills all time and space He could be all in Jesus and still be in all places how he does that goes beyond all human conception because He is not like us in that we are limited in what we can do yet He is unlimited in what He can do
Nowadays people believe in 2......
I like the explanation of the US...but the flaw i see in it us that Jesus is the image of God. Jesus the man according to Hebrew 1 is the express image of God and we accepting him become sons of god or images of god... And i believe we are images because of our flesh and if Jesus the man is already flesh the he wouldn't say we are made in his image... Not sur if you get my point... Would love to hear more on this subject, because I believe recently I heard you soeak on the royal WE
If you ask people at a trinitarian church to explain the trinity, 75% will explain Oneness.
Do you know that even when oneness deny it they are trinitarians? The Trinity is inevitable!
100% of oneness wrongly believe that Jesus is the Father.
Jesus is not the FATHER. Jesus is the Son sent by the FATHER.
@@msolav63 Jesus is the ONE God in the flesh. Your opinion is not mentioned in scripture.
1 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV) 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
Hold the cell phone! I feel like my theory of Jesus is relevant to what your talking about. Jesus born a man (thee manifestation of God ) was bound by the laws of this existence, hence was with out sin (prayer, acknowledged The law of Moses, ect. ) Then ascended to heaven and entered the realm of eternity. But by the same laws would not and could not reveal himself in our historical past? Except through prophecy 🤯 holy Moses !!!
When Jesus said "Before Abraham, I am " meant that Jesus was foreordained BEFORE the existence of Abraham. Read Genesis 3:15 God foretold the coming of Jesus--before Abraham was even born. So, it’s absurd to accept one meaning of a scripture as the final definitive.
Genesis 3:15 was a prophetic promise of God about the coming of Jesus Christ.
After Adam and Eve sinned God spoke of sending Jesus to be the propitiation for the sins of mankind.
Jesus' fate and his destiny were foreordained and predetermined by God as the atonement for the sins of mankind before the world was created. And before Abraham was born.
1 Peter 1:20
“Who (Jesus) verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,”
He that is eternal cannot be begotten....
The Son was not eternal. He was born of a woman in the fullness of time. Isa. 9:6; 1 Tim.3:16 .
@Hargis Pennington
Hargis Pennington, oneness attempt to utilize John to show that the title of "Son" refers only to the temporal humanity of Christ as "the only begotten" Son of God. For you the fact that the Son is "begotten," it is argued, rules our his being eternal.
In Galatians 4:4 it says:
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Concerning Paul's statement that God sent "born of a woman" we need to point out that this clause most readily refers to the conditions of the Son's sending not to the nature of the Son himself. The verse does not say that God "created" his Son by having him born of a woman. It merely says that God sent his Son, born of a woman.
Hargis Pennington, there is nothing in this that is at all in tension with the truth of Christ's real pre-existence something we have already seen Paul elsewhere affirm. The human birth of Christ is simply an aspect of "the very nature of a servant" he voluntarily assumed in "being made in human likeness "
In Philippians 2:7 it says:
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
"The Word became flesh" (John 1: 14 cf. Tim 3:16)
1 Timothy 3:16
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
The Son did not begin to exist with this enfleshment. Oneness wrongly believes, while Jesus Christ existed from eternity as the "Father", Jesus Christ the Son had a definite beginning in time. A beginning that dates from his conceptions the womb of Mary. As always in support of this position, oneness cite a number of biblical text, but there are of course places where the Scripture teach that Jesus Christ, as the Son of God, preexisted with the Father. For example, various passages in the Gospel John seem to teach the Son's preexistence, for example:
In John 17:1-5 it says:
Jesus Prays for Himself
17 JESUS SPOKE THESE WORDS, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “FATHER, the hour has come. Glorify YOUR SON, that YOUR SON also may glorify YOU,
2 as You have given HIM AUTHORITY over all flesh, that HE should give eternal life to as many as YOU have given HIM.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom YOU HAVE SENT.
4 I have glorified YOU on the earth. I have finished the work which YOU HAVE GIVEN ME TO DO.
5 And now, O FATHER, GLORIFY ME TOGETHER WITH YOURSELF, WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Oneness believe that Jesus only existed when HE came into the world but here Jesus clearly tells us that HE ALREADY EXISTED WITH THE FATHER BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
In these verses Jesus is not saying nor is he implying that HE was a THOUGHT OR A FUTURISTIC THOUGHT OR A PLAN IN THE MIND OF GOD.
Nor Jesus said that he was with the Father in his thoughts.
He is claiming that HE already existed alongside or WITH THE FATHER BEFORE the foundation of the world.
WITH THE FATHER:
The Bible doesn't say that Jesus pre-existed His incarnation as the FATHER, but always that HE was WITH THE FATHER: "And now, O FATHER, glorify ME together WITH YOURSELF, WITH the glory which I had WITH YOU before the world was." (John 17:5)
In John 1:1-3 it says:
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the WORD, and THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, and the WORD was God.
2 HE WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD .
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
In John 1:1-3 tells us that the: “WORD, WAS IN THE BEGINNING” and “THE WORD WAS WITH GOD" and THE WORD WAS GOD, and THE WORD WAS THE CREATOR.”
In John 8:38 it says:
"I speak what I have seen WITH MY FATHER, and you do what you have seen with your father."
1 John 1:1-3.
Eternal Life
1 THAT WHICH WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, which we have HEARD, which we have SEEN WITH OUR EYES , which we have LOOKED UPON, and OUR HANDS have handled, concerning the Word of life
2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER AND WAS MANIFESTED TO US
3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is WITH THE FATHER AND WITH HIS SON Jesus Christ."
Again: Jesus is not the FATHER in the flesh nor the Son pre-existed as the FATHER. Jesus the BEGOTTEN SON or the WORD of God, WAS WITH THE FATHER and became flesh!
Hargis Pennington, if you don't know who is this WORD that was in the BEGINNING WITH GOD, just read John 1 Verses 14-18 where it's reveal to us that the WORD was “THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE FATHER.”
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, AND WE beheld His GLORY, the GLORY as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of HIM and cried out, saying, “This was HE OF whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for HE WAS BEFORE me.’ ”
16 And of HIS FULLNESS we have all received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given through Moses, BUT GRACE and TRUTH CAME THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.
18 No one has seen GOD at any time. THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, who is in the BOSOM of the FATHER, He has DECLARED HIM.
In 2 John 3 it says:
3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you FROM GOD THE FATHER AND FROM the Lord Jesus Christ, THE SON OF THE FATHER, IN TRUTH AND LOVE.
In Colossians 1:12-19 it says:
12 Giving thanks unto the FATHER, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear SON:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 FOR IT PLEASED THE FATHER THAT in him should all fulness dwell;
The bible specify that Jesus is called the WORD, the BEGOTTEN SON who was WITH the FATHER before the foundation of the World and was sent to world by the FATHER.
However, our human concept of “son” is the birth of a boy child. But, the Bible clearly states that Christ’s pre-existence was since the BEGINNING. Jesus the BEGOTTEN SON or the WORD of God became flesh, the FATHER did not became flesh.
Hargis Pennington, Jesus is God but HE is NOT the FATHER. Jesus is the BEGOTTEN SON or the WORD of God who was WITH the FATHER before the world was (John 17-1-5).
Center stage, Coke bottle lol
Jesus never said " I am God the Father" because Jesus was the Son of God. Urshan sometimes you talk like God and Jesus are the same--but then other times you speak as though they are separate. THAT is confusing--and also unscriptural.
Jesus said, "He that has seen Me HAS SEEN THE FATHER (John 14:7-9) and "I and my Father ARE ONE (John 10:30) Jesus is the EVERLASTING FATHER (Isaiah 9:6) manifest in the flesh (John 1:1-3,14; 1 Timothy 3:16) and there is ONLY ONE GOD, not three (Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 1:11,17, 18; 4:11). The Son was BEGOTTEN, not eternal; Jesus always existed as GOD but the SON was begotten, and manifest IN FLESH to pay the price for our sins. The NAME...NAME of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is JESUS, He is not "second" to ANYONE, and you trinitarians are in danger eternally by calling Jesus the "second person in the godhead" because you are saying He is LESS THAN DEITY as the Jehovah's Witnesses claim, that Jesus is a lesser or demi God!
God made man in his image---God is a spirit God has no image.so go figure.
Do you guys know that oneness are TRINITARIANS? The majority of Oneness followers reject that we also believe in ONE God, despite being told this many many times over. However, they are in line with the hypocritical belief that God can be THREE modes or manifestations, but not THREE persons.
A) Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD THREE PERSONS or TRINITY of PERSONS.
B) Oneness believe in ONE GOD THREE modes/manifestations or TRINITY of modes.
I can't wrap my head around the splitting of hairs Oneness followers have on this issue.
Can someone explain to me how it is that oneness are not Trinitarians? Of course they are Trinitarians.
THE TRINITY IS INEVITABLE!
So, who coined the word trinitas or trinity and who formulated the doctrine of the trinity?
God is an absolute numerical one. God the Father became his own Son. Jesus is the manifestation and personification of God the Father in human form
Excellent
If you ask people at a trinitarian church to explain the trinity, 75% will explain Oneness.
Do you know oneness are TRINITARIANS? The majority of Oneness followers reject that we also believe in ONE God, despite being told this many many times over. However, they are in line with the hypocritical belief that God can be THREE modes or manifestations, but not THREE persons.
A) Trinitarians believe in ONE GOD THREE PERSONS or TRINITY of PERSONS.
B) Oneness believe in ONE GOD THREE modes/manifestations or TRINITY of modes.
I can't wrap my head around the splitting of hairs Oneness followers have on this issue.
Can someone explain to me how it is that oneness are not Trinitarians? Of course they are Trinitarians.
The Trinity is inevitable!
@bluray1080jp
blueray1080jp, trinitarians know who is Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God sent by the FATHER. Jesus is God but Jesus is not the Father. You can also go to a Jewish person and tell him that Jesus is God or the Father and see what they say. Do you remember when Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees that he was the Son of God?
bluray1080jp, In Revelation 1: 1-2 it says:
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
2 who testifies to everything he saw that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
WHO IS THIS GOD that gave the revelation to Jesus Christ while Christ was in heaven? Your oneness dogma teaches when Jesus is in heaven he is the Father but when he is on earth he is the Son but here you can realize the flaws in you belief or dogma because Jesus and the Father are both in heaven.
This revelation is unique in the New Testament in that it is not simply "inspired by God", it actually comes directly from God, partly given by oracle and partly by vision. There is a very clear delineation that John makes between God and Jesus Christ. We are clearly told that God gave this vision to Jesus Christ. How are we going to take this?
If we follow the oneness view of God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are supposedly Jesus Christ then why is the distinctive mention of God and Jesus Christ separated from each other? Tell me why Jesus is NOT the author of the Revelation vision at all, but God is? Or, according to Oneness thinking, could this mean that Jesus Christ created the visions and then passed them on to himself?
What we read is that God is the author who gives the visions to Jesus, who is but 2nd in a long chain of 5 steps; the fifth step being the Believer who hears and/or reads the Book of Revelation. The oracles and visions begin with God (the Father), are passed along to Jesus the Son, then to angels, angels to John, and then finally to us in written form.
bluray1080jp, Jesus said to Mary, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My FATHER; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, and to MY GOD and YOUR GOD.’ ” (John 20:17)
Again, who is this FATHER and who is this God Jesus is referring to? Is he going to ASCEND TO HIMSELF?
bluray1080jp, of course Jesus the Son or the Word is God but Jesus is NOT the Father.
100% of the onenesses deny that they are Trinitarians even though they are Trinitarians.
Trinitarians believe in One God THREE Persons nor TRINITY of Persons.
Oneness believe in One God THREE modes (THREE manifestations) or TRINITY of modes, lol.
Oneness are Trinitarians! The Trinity is inevitable!
@Blueray1080jp
1) bluray1080jp, good luck saying that Jesus is the Father.
bluray1080jp, who has not heard the 'Oneness' Pentecostal battle-cry, 'There is one throne in heaven and Jesus is sitting on it!':
"Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne." (Revelation 4:2).
But don't let oneness slam the book shut after the "one sat on the throne" of 4:2. You won't believe whose deity they are about to deny! Keep reading. Who should amble by and approach the throne, but a Lamb?: "And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne." (Revelation 5:6-7). Jesus Chris is the Lamb that was slain: "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, 'Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!'" (John 1:29). This Lamb was slain, yet lives: "...These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive." (Revelation 2:8).
At this point let me ask you and our 'Oneness' friends whether they think the Lamb that was slain is God the Father incarnate or Jesus the Son who was sent by the FATHER? There is only one Jesus, this very Lamb, and that one Jesus is both fully man and fully God. He was slain, yet lives. Because the 'Oneness' Pentecostals claim to accept the traditional Christian belief that Jesus Christ is God, some may be surprised when our friends deny that the Lamb is God, explaining he is mere '
2) blueray1080jp, who is the ANCIENT Of DAYS? and who is ONE LIKE A SON OF MAN?
A firm connection between the New Testament book of Revelation and various Old Testament books is needed for a proper interpretation.
Daniel 7:9-10
9 “As I looked,
“thrones were set in place,
and the ANCIENT OF DAYS took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.
Blueray1080jp, WHO is THE ANCIENT OF DAYS? Answer: God the FATHER.
Daniel 7:13 says:
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was ONE LIKE A SON OF MAN, coming with the clouds of heaven. HE approached the ANCIENT OF DAYS and was led into his presence.
14 HE WAS GIVEN AUTHORITY, GLORY AND SOVEREIGN POWER; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped HIM. HIS dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and HIS kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
bluray1080jp, who is the Son of Man? Answers: This is Jesus.
Daniel 7:13 speaks of two distinct divine figures: THE ANCIENT ONE and the "ONE AS A SON OF MAN." It should be understood that the original Aramaic in which it was written says bar-enash, which directly correlates with the Hebrew bene-adam; both simply mean to be human. That is, the son of man is the Aramaic and Hebrew way of saying to be human. And those terms mean absolutely nothing more or less than that. So, in Daniel's vision, does he see this one as a SON OF MAN coming on the clouds of heaven and see another as the ANCIENT OF DAYS.
The ANCIENT OF DAYS (God the Father) gave the SON OF MAN (Jesus) rulership, glory, and a kingdom over all the inhabitants of the country and of all the Earth.
bluray1080jp, Daniel sees a human being coming on the clouds and yet Daniel knows that he cannot be a human being, so he writes "ONE AS A SON OF MAN"; or better "One as a human being". Then Daniel was given a divine prophetic vision that introduced a new and confusing element of the term SON OF MAN. Daniel had received a vision of a future divine / human MESSIAH, but did not understand. A new theological concept was born here in Daniel in Israelite religious understanding; The theological concept of a human-like deity, referred to as the SON OF MAN, who is directly associated with JEHOVAH, THE GOD OF ISRAEL. Such a concept would not have raised an eyebrow among pagan Gentiles because all Gentiles viewed their gods and goddesses as human-looking deities, but the Israelites had spent centuries punished in the most terrible way by the God of Israel for harboring such thoughts because they manifested themselves in idolatry. This was a very difficult concept for Daniel to digest to the point that it made him pale. As modern believers, we have an advantage over Daniel. Around 600 years after Daniel, his bewildering vision began to come into focus. Daniel provided several attributes that would help identify this special SON OF MAN. Those attributes are: He is human, but in some inexplicable way He is also divine. He will come in the clouds. He will occupy a throne, in heaven. THE ANCIENT OF DAYS delegates dominion over the entire planet, and over all, to this unique SON OF MAN. These attributes that we find of the concept of the Son of Man in Daniel 7, we find them in Jesus of Nazareth. So what we learn is that, ironically, it's the concept of the SON OF MAN and JESUS' claim that HE is that SON OF MAN that identifies HIM as divine.
What is significant about this passage is that the Son of Man is not the only divine figure in the vision. In Daniel 7:9-10, there is also the Ancient of Days, who is clearly depicted as God. There are two persons who are God and yet they are distinct from one another.
bluray1080jp, The fact that Jesus the Son has similar characteristics with the Father does not mean that he is the same Father. If so, the Bible would not make a distinction between the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is the Lamb, the Word, the Son of God who was sent by the FATHER.