All metal hot end for the Ender 3 for $7. Part 1, tips, trips and lessons learned.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2019
- Will a $7 all metal hot end work on the Ender 3? Watch to find out! To find this hot end at one of the Chinese retailers search for "Ender 3 all metal hot end". Or buy the one from Amazon below.
All metal hot end at Amazon - amzn.to/305MOjn
Ender 3 at Amazon - amzn.to/2P6cJkA
Ender 3 Pro at Amazon - amzn.to/3gcliGK
I upgraded my factory hotend with a titanium heat break from Spool3D. It turns it into an all metal hotend and keeps the stock cooling block with the pneumatic Bowden tube mount which is much better than the crappy Micro Swiss plastic tube mount.
I also bought the Spool3D nickel plated copper heat block that comes with titanium mounting screws so you don't have to rely on the crappy single grub screw that Micro Swiss relies on which is a weak design. The 2 mounting screws do not transfer any heat to the cooling block. It's a myth that's been debunked.
These 2 parts from Spool3D are cheaper than the Micro Swiss kit and make a much better hotend.
Thanks for the heads up.
Instablaster.
I was looking at some of those titanium heat breaks and wondered if I could just use it in a factory E2v3 hotend with the factory extruder? I found a SS and an upgrade to titanium here, amzn.to/3tObKsO ...could you advise which is the right one to fit the Ender 3v2 (NOTE: it would then also fit an Voxelab aquila which I just replaced the fan shroud on, they run the exact same factory hotend)The 3dp santana 6 shroud I printed for it in PLA+ made the Vox 40% quieter! Fewer contact points to cause vibration I guess. The Fang I printed on and for the e3v2 made it nicely quiet, but the difference in the noise on the vox was really astonishing. thank you for your videos, helping us learn from your gained knowledge.
Dont forget to do a PID calibration after changing the hot end as the nozzle temps will be significantly different due to a change of materials (especially if your using the titanium alloy hot end). Plenty of guides out there and its quick and easy.
That's good information, Mark. Thanks for sharing!
The PTFE tube can release gasses at the high temps needed. So after using an all metal hot end to get rid of the PTFE tube I added PTFE tape to the hot end.....
I should put some text on it or something I guess.
But I'm hoping I can hit 1000 people who've called me on it. After 2+ years since I posted that video I must be getting close.
@@3rdpig :-)
or get some capricorn tubing it takes higher temps than the ptfe and is not that expensive :)
@@John_Atkinson capricorn is still ptfe tube. Capricorn will offgass at 250c, just like the cheap white bowden.
Always worth investing in tools and parts, so that you can "learn" the "why". Learning how to replace my hot end on my S5. Thanks for the video.
I experienced the same issue with the well known brand. I fixed it the same way you've explained it here.
I like the way you present the option to go cheap or pay for the value-add. Also, good information about the hot end.
First of your videos that I watched and I really enjoy your personality! Keep up the good work :)
Fantastic little tutorial! Loved how you walked through what went wrong and how the hotend is supposed to work, since it's hard for beginners to envision how it's all assembled underneath all that metal.
Thanks for watching!
Great video Chuck, going to try the thermal paste to. Had same problems to, i coated the inside of the hotend with wd-40 dry ptfe spray, this helped a lot,the fillement goes thru a lot smoother. Keep up the good work..
Did you miss that heating ptfe too high produces toxic fumes?
Just ordered one of these and honestly it's really relieving to have a detailed guide. Doubly so as just today I slagged my stock hotend when left to my own devices.
Don't use any teflon tape on it, that was a mistake.
The 2 screws attaching the heat block to the cold end immediately identifies it as not a Micro Swiss. Those missing screws on the Micro Swiss had me extremely concerned that things wouldn't hold well enough, but the grub screw absolutely does hold it all together perfectly well. On my CR-10S my Micro Swiss with my TH3D Studio 50w heater have worked great and I can now easily print in Polycarbonate and Nylon.
Been going down this rabbit hole. THANKS for the third video! Some quick tips break out the calipers and measure dimension on this stuff. Also consider ditching the heat block for a copper one. Also don't use the heat block screws... The reason is, I found both the block and screws were out of spec big time... If you use the screws they can pull the throat cock eyed. If one gently tightens the nozzle and throat under heat you'll get a clean matting. The other thing is start with extremely low retraction... Like 2mm maybe 3mm.
Thanks for posting the video, definitely helped me out.
You're welcome!
Nice video with some interesting insights. Some misstakes, too: I think you do not want to promote heat transfer between the heat block and the heat break. You want the heat to stay in the heat block and nozzle as much as possible, and you want the other heat, that managed to get into the heat break to be cooled down as much as possible. So yould should use paste on the nozzle to heat break thread and between the upper heat break end and the coolig block, and maybe between the heat block and heater cartridge and thermistor, but nowhere else.
And of course you do not want teflon on your hotend, that's why you switched to an all metal hotend at first, but I have just seen this has already been commented ;)
epic video, like always. Learned so much. Thanks!
9:20 While you do want the heat to transfer well between the heatbreak and the heatsink, you DO NOT want the heat to transfer well between block and the heat break.
Edit: to further explain, it is inevitable to transfer heat from the heatblock to the heatbreak and then to the heatsink. The heatsink is there exactly to cool down the heatbreak, that means dissipate the unwanted heat that creeps away from the heatblock, because it can melt/soften the filament while still in the heatbreak and cause clogs. The real reason why teflon tape is a bad idea is because it releases poisonous gases when heated too much. What I did once was wrap my heatbreak with a few insulating glass fibers before screwing it to the heatblock. Theoratically, this would reduce the heat transfer between the heatbreak and the heatblock. I don't know how effective it really was, but It wasn't harmfull as I printed for more than a hundred hours without clogs after doing that.
Thanks. I was watching the video and noticed the same thing. Just paused it to jump down to the comments and see if anyone had pointed this out yet. So I'm just here to second that the last place you want to encourage heat transfer is between the block and the heat break.
Exactly. The purpose of the heatbreak is to STOP the transfer of heat upward from the heatblock. Makes no sense to increase heat transfer to the heatbreak.
lapidations, do you have a video how you do the wrap?
Chuck. You rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank You so much
retraction tips was what I had need
You're welcome, I'm glad I could help!
I have the same hot end and had the same popping and clogging issues, took it back off and put it in a drawer, think I'll follow your suggestions and give it another go 👍 thanks!
You're welcome! Keep me posted on how it goes.
yeah same here having issues the last 2 days going to get it out of the drawer lol
Thanks Chuck I have the same issue with you but only way I didn't try thermal paste hope it will work
got two of these , will use your tips as well, many thanks
Thanks for commenting! A few updates, Don't put heat sink paste between the heat break and any of the hot end parts. Don't use teflon tape. And you need to tighten the nozzle with the hot end around 20c above the top temp you intend to print at. After you tighten the nozzle remove the two screws holding the heat block onto the heatsink. And don't forget to change your retraction settings, if you use the same retraction settings as the stock hot end you WILL get clogs. Clogs suck!
Damn, I should make a new video.
@@3rdpig would you? I've tried everything mentioned in this video and more, and while I can print abs fine PLA just inevitably jams up in the heat break after a short while. I'm on the edge of going back to stock just wouldn't want all this effort to go to waste.
The same. Couldn't get any success with PLA either. ABS snd TPU no problem.
Very informative. Thanks for a great video.
I swapped the ender 3 throat with a all metal throat. I was getting jams due to molten filament being moved up and heat creep. I solved it by oiling the filament for the first few prints. Now it prints great.
Thank you Chuck, really helped me!
There's an update to this video too. Thanks for watching!
I have a genuine one on my Ender 3 but I'm going to get the copy for my Ender 5 Plus just so I can compare them, thanks for taking the time to reply to my comments and questions, much appreciated Chuck!
Thanks for watching!
Any feedback after comparing them please?
You sir, make an amazing and informative video.
Thanks for the kind words!
Excellent, thank you for sharing your experience - I guess you have saved me lots of time! :)
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
I know this is from last year but just a heads up, I'm pretty sure the thermal compound should only go between the heat break and the heat sink. The objective is to cool down the heat sink, not heat it up. Also thermal compound isn't rated high enough to go between the heat cartridge and the heat block. Not sure what it breaks down to, but it's probably not good.
Kudos Chuck. This was a great video, I think I'm going to have to buy another E3 if I'm going to experiment with this. My one and only E3 is completely dialed in and I don't want to screw with it now. A quick question that I'm sure you've thought about, what are the material benefits of shooting 280 degree nylon over say 240-250 degree PETG? Is the nylon that much better? I changed my Bowden tube on the E3 to Capricorn which apparently will allow me to run the head up to 260 although I've never been there. I did the switch because I had a bit left over from my Anycubic Linear Klossel which BTW really benefits from a Capricorn bowden tube (reduced ghosting). Anyway if I do go down the all metal road you are now the go-to reference. Thanks.
Bowden tubes degrade at print temps of 245 plus, it just slowly leaches into your prints until a large enough gap develops to cause a clog. with getting leaks you sometimes need to polish the mating ends, I used 1000 grit sandpaper and stopped all leaks, I was using TPU and it was a terrible mess.
thanks for sharing this, awesome brother!
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
Awesome. Thanks for the video. I would appreciate if you cranked up your volume.
Thanks, since I made this video I have changed my mic and hopefully things will sound better. If they don't, let me know!
Thank you a lot for this video!
I am subscribed!
Super informative !! Thank you !
I totally feel you on the mistake thing lol...just subbed.
Hi Chuck, This is nice explanation.
Nice job. What you described is not only true for the clone you have, but also for any all metal hot end. Good point on the retraction and priming settings. I'll keep that in mind when I 'upgrade' to an all metal hot end. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Thanks for the video. Although I know this was a while ago, lately I've seen people polishing the insides of the all metal hot ends (and one guy spraying it with a dry lube) to get less of the filament retraction to stick.
Thanks, in a later video I tried an oiler which seemed to work well enough to get me back to 4-6mm of retraction. I've got more than one printer, so the one with the all metal hot end, which is also enclosed, only gets used for something that really needs high hot end temps and an enclosed, heated environment. Thanks for watching!
Excellent Job!
Thanks for sharing your experiences,I recently purchased it too and luckilly found ur video before using it and NYLON is best:)
Thanks, I'm looking forward to some nylon projects!
Sir you have my respect and admiration! Youve earned yourself a Sub!
Thanks for watching!
Much appreciated... especially just being yourself and not hyping or being fake like most of the sad vids I see. Being older helps I'm sure.
Thanks!
Great video.. just got a e3dv6 from triangelap site on AliExpress.. looks good. They also have the micro Swizz one.. cost a bit more but good quality. Check out the bmg extruter..
Inspired(?!) by this, I've just bought a complete knock-off hot end kit, including a new heater and higher temp rated thermocouple (not K type as I don't want the hassle yet) for....$15 shipped to the UK. Crazy. Thanks Chuck :)
You're welcome! I've since replaced the thermocouple on mine with a solid, screw in type. It fits in the screw hole that the retaining screw for the original glass bead thermocouple and is rated to 300 C. I don't intend to run it at that temp for long periods, but so far it's handled it 300 C for 30 minutes and 275 C for 3 hours. I'm looking forward to getting up and running with something higher temp and more durable than the Bridge Nylon.
Chuck Bryant When it arrives I’ll let you know what I think of the new hot end assembly I bought. Thanks again for taking the time to produce the video.
Thank you for this video 😀
This video is great. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Thank you Chuck!
You're welcome, Benjamin. Thanks for watching!
First of all, thanks for sharing your experience. I tried hard to make it working with my cr10 but i couldn’t. It clogs after few filament retractions. I thought the hot end was defective so I kept it away and put back the stock hot end but with a blue PTFE tube jus like the Capricorn one. Also not sure if it is a clone or not but it is much cheaper. Anyway, after watching your video i will try it with your suggestions when time come to try a high temp filament.
Thanks again.
Try doing what I did in the video and also setting the retraction distance at 2mm or less and the retraction prime speed to 20mm/sec. I've been using that with good results with both PLA and nylon.
Tighten the nozzle all the way and use that 1/4 turn back, not 3/4 turn. What this does is allows the "cool area" of the heat break to be further away from the hot area. I know it does not seem like much but EVERY little bit helps. It might only give you an extra ~0.25 - 0.3 of a mm but that is that much more retraction that you can use, and just a tiny bit less blobs/stringing on prints because you can retract more. This will also engage the nozzle into the hot end just "that much more" which gives better heat transfer to the spot that is supposed to be hot = smoother looking prints.
I've been through a similar process, but with a Titan (insert registered trademark here, hehe) setup. After a great deal of testing/retesting many different things, my above advice seems to hold true. I got better prints with less blobs/stringing by engaging the nozzle as much as possible. I managed to get my retracts up to 2.5mm. I also went through a headache surprisingly similar to yours but I never had issues with leaking filament, I had always tightened the nozzle after an initial heat up (regardless of teflon lined or all metal), I learned this trick early on. My setup is a direct drive though, I can't be certain about a bowden tube, but it does seem to me that a bowden tube would naturally introduce slack so retractions should be a tad bit higher than a direct drive. I can't test this of course. Your millage and exact settings WILL vary.
Excellent info, thanks!
Chuck thanks for the video m8 I have literally picked up one of these to try off fleabay for a whopping £3.35 ($4.41) I was thinking oh well at the beginning to oh thats good news at the end. Thanks once again for making the video.
Thanks!
Thanks Chuck VERY useful... The only thing that caught me out was 'using' the heatsink past! (perhaps it was good tolerances in mine... I could not get anything of it of it till I stripped it all out again and found that some heatsink paste got into the filament chamber... once cleaned out it was fine... Ps. i got Thermal runaway pop up on mine 2 minutes after the thing was started printing and presumed (falsely) that i had damaged the glass thermistor bead...I ordered a pack of 4. Later, when I really needed to print a part on it.. I got to looking at it again (in hope) but a bit more closely only to find the bead not in contact with the heated end and giving a falsely low temp rating.. put it back properly and it works a treat... PPS.. I ordered a cheap clone (£5) myself and was prepared to wait for it to arrive.. My brother wanted an ABS part quickly and bought on one eBay. £35.. I see absolutely no difference in the look of this one and the one I ordered!
I definetly made a couple of mistakes in the video. For me none of them really made a difference. Later on I had to clean a clog out of it and when I put it back together I did it without those mistakes and it wasn't any different. So I either lucked out, or it wasn't as big of a deal as I thought it was. Oh, and I never put back the glass bead type thermistors, I always replace it with the screw in type. But that's just because I don't seem to be able to take one out and put it back more than once without breaking the wires off at the bead.
@@3rdpig I think I have lucked out too.. Changing filaments is a real pain.. I have to take the bowden tube and threaded nut to get anywhere... In the end i put the stock hotend back on and can change filaments so easy with that (providing you get the temperature right first before retraction) I'm guessing the insides of the cheaper ends are not very smooth unlike the bowden tubes.. which go further down the heatsink. I have given up on ABS printing now as my experiment with Glass/hairspray is not working at all ;although it is great with PLA/PETG. go figure. Thanks anyway Chuck. I like your videos.
update 2... my 'cheap version bought by my brother was not cheap (£35) as this but looked the same I happened to order at the a really cheap version off eBay and was prepared to wait for it .. it came today.. it is NOT the same... I'd say it is a mix between stock and yours and the one I tried in that the heat break is a lot longer inside the cooling fin block. So whilst the bowden tube does go inside the finned block, (as the stock original) it doesn't go as far down to the heat block. The stock part bowden almost touches the back of the nozzle! I have yet to try it but am more hopeful with this one as the filament will get further through the system that my last one. (in the new one linked you can see the heatbreak tube is a lot longer. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ender-3-5-Pro-CR10-CR10S-CR20-Hotend-Hot-End-Extruder-All-Metal-Upgrade-Kit-UK/143680597978?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Great video 👍
Gonna Need to go Type-K Thermacouple to bring that temp up to 300C.
Will you do more videos on the Geetech A10M ?? Planing to mod a Ender 3 for Color mixing
Thank you so so much
great video thanks
Did you reflash the firmware?
The stock firmware limits retraction to 25 mm/s and temp is set to 275°C max.
I've reflashed the firmware on both my Ender 3's multiple times and from several suppliers. They've both been on the Marlin Bugfix 1.1X for at least 3-5 months. It's been the most stable for me. I've posted several videos of it.
Good video, gives me confidence to try an all metal hot end when I move from printing with just PLA
Thanks! I
Good advice! However it should be said all the headaches you had are not unusual (ask how I know) with the other company! I have two CR-10S and run all metal hotends in both. For myself I do almost all printing with PETG AT 235C the best part is once setup it is a long time between repairs. The stock hotend is absolutely perfect for PLA at 200c but at the 235c your on the edge of the PTFE limits. as I said good advice! well done.
Thanks, Chuck. Some really good, honest advice there.
For those of you that say the Micro Swiss hotend is the original you are wrong ! Both the Micro Swiss and the Mk8 hotend are copied of the original Wanhao Duplicator Mk10 Design. So there you go feel free to use the clone, because everybody copy each other.
Teflon tape is the same thing the tube is made out of. You'd be smoking it off making the fumes you are trying to avoid. I use it between heat block and heat break to further thermally disconnect it whenever possible.
Yeah, I got one of those. Mine had a piece of plastic inside. If you get one, take it apart & double check.
I've purchased 3 of them and haven't found anything unusual inside. Is it some kind of packing material or just something that looks like it got there by accident?
@@3rdpig It looks like PTFE tube, I'm guessing that's what it is. If it was installed on a machine without taking it apart you wouldn't know it was there, until it started to melt (or burn) at higher temps.
IMO one place you should not encourage thermal transfer with the heat paste, is the start of the heat-break threads inside the hot block, this is one spot where the more lossy you can make the thermal transfer, the better off you are. Everywhere else makes sense.
Hopefully that thermal compound is rated for the high temps involved. You can't just use the kind used in PC's. Also, the only places that should be used if you're going to is on the nozzle threads and heater capsule. You don't want heat to transfer anywhere else. It's obvious what this is a clone of and it looks like a good enough version of it. For me, I plan to use a somewhat more expensive version that's plated copper which can handle 500+ plus degrees and also has a mounting hole for the thermalcouple or sensor needed for those temps (thermistors don't work well at higher temps). If Micro Swiss offered one like that, I'd at least consider it, but they don't.
Don't know whether somebody has already pointed this out but putting thermal compound between the thread of the heater block and the heatbreak (as mentioned at 9:54) is a bad idea.
It is counteracting the very purpose of the heatbreak as it is meant to keep the heat away from the upper part of your filament (or ptfe-tube if there es one). Essentially making the job of the heatsink harder as it is trying to keep that sucker cool for as long as possible. Putting it between the heatbreak and the heatsink, however, is a very good idea for the very same reason.
Well, i tought too but i got the same kit and had problems until i put thermal paste on the heatbreak thread. For what i saw, the heatbreak in his bottom part was too cold and it create jams. As soon as i put thermal paste, problems gone and print like a charm.
@@Mr.TreeFPV Well that is very interesting. Maybe has the friction coefficient of your blend first goes down while heating up until it reaches its glass temperature and then rapidly goes up again. But that is just a wage theory of an idiot.
@@Jajaho2 My friend, we're maybe not rocket scientist but neither of us are idiots ;).
my setup in details :
- ender3 linked to octiprint
- all metal hotend (this kit)
- Nozzle 0.4 in hard metal
Material i print wright now is PETG from Overture (amazon) @ 245 - 250 (still search the perfect setting) with 3mm retraction @ 45mm/s and 100% fan. Speed is at 50 with 2 walls and 5 top.
The thing is that the heartbreak of the original design was made of titanium. The clone is aluminum. So it will act very differently then the original part was designed. Experimenting is really the only way to find the best solution as the design was modified.
it's ok he likes to make mistakes so he can solve them later
Hey Chuck, I think I have the same hotend now, which I have installed using this method on my Tevo Tornado. You mentioned retraction setting tweaks, and I changed them as recommended, but you mentioned other settings as well. I'm printing a plain black PLA at 200 C with the bed at 70, and I'm having a little problem with stringing and with nozzle plugging. Any other suggestions with respect to settings? With a clean nozzle (printing pretty clean and nice unless I have unsupported spans where/when the stringing happens) it seems to print for a few hours and then eventually plug. Do you have other setting suggestions?
Great insights, thank you... It seems to me hat it is better to use the original and from time to time replace the bowden. Ender 3 is a printer that works mostly perfectly well without modding.
As long as you only want to print with filament that doesn't require more than 250c nozzle temps the stock hot end is pretty good, it's when you need 260+ that the all metal hot end is necessary. Some things like the springs and fans are crap and will probably need replacing within a year (or in the case of my first one, a few weeks), but it's a sub $200 printer.
@@3rdpig Thank you.
Nice video - thanks. Would a squirt of a dry coating teflon spray down the inside f the heat break tube help with the retractions?
It might, but at higher temperatures it would probably burn off.
AFAIK micro swiss hot ends are machined in the US
Chuck, a URL to what you bought would have been nice, just so we could see what to look for.
search on ebay theres a whole bunch ranging from $6 to $50 on there...
This is the one my brother bought me as he was impatient www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402182891527
And this is the one I ordered from China and was prepared to wait for www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164313646808
Can't see any difference.. The one I got yesterday was fine after sorting my issues out.. The bowden tube doesn't get very warm at all.. Which is all I wanted for the ABS filament.. just tried it but a lifted off the bed early on but I think the warping was the culprit really
@@whatworkedforme Wow Alan, talk about "stumbling" on to "old" TH-cam videos. I agree there's very little difference between the two Hotends, and it's been so long I don't remember which one I bought. I tried the All Metal Hot End, however, after doing some additional research decided there is not a danger with using the standard Hotend with ABS, and have been using the "standard" Hotend with ABS for about 8 months, almost every day - Take a look on where the out gassing starts, it's WAY above ABS temps, I'd like to claim I was smart enough to figure this out myself, however, a chemist that was also into 3d Printing pointed this out to me, I did my own research, and found he was correct - Cheater here, I have access to a LOT of very good Chemists and they also agreed with his "claim".
Continue on with the "hobby" and enjoy ABS, I LOVE ABS, once you get the methods down, simple things like a clean print surface and an enclosure, I still print in PLA as well as PETG. I own two Ender 3's some I've set one up for ONLY ABS, and the other for everything else.
Here's you next "rabbit hole" laser engraving - it's less then $100 to get into it - 10K watt laser for less then $200, or go with the smaller ones for less then $100.
@@TheDgdimick thanks for your comments . Of it could get ABS to such to the bed is be ok.. It is extruding fine presently.. Into a bird's nest
@@whatworkedforme Go buy a plain old sheet of glass from your hardware store, use a bit of CHEAP hairspray, the unscented kind, Aqua Net works best, and use this as your print surface, just hit the glass with a very light coat of hair spry and when it looks like it's built up, every 10 to 15 prints, clean it off with some IPA, or Denatured Alcohol, I use Denatured because it cost less for me; you'll wonder why you didn't do this sooner. When you print ABS, all you need to do is clean the hair spray off the glass and print on the clean glass. A mirror will also work as well, lets you look at the print from the bottom - buddy of mine uses one and loves it.
As a side note, I've done a LOT of filament tests, drying, submerging in water, etc, and have NOT found that ABS picks up water like it's been claimed to do - My tests could be wrong, since I'm not able to determine what gases are out gassed when drying in my dehydrator.
Have fun and feel free to ask any questions you may have.
Nice job...and how is with PLA? Did you solved the stringing?
Not yet, I'm still playing with settings. And from what others have told me, the all metal hot ends will never print as clean as the others since you can run the huge retractions as a standard hot end. If so, that ends my plans of putting all metal hot ends on all my printers. I'll keep at least one stock.
Hi Chuck.. Big fan here. I'd love to hear what settings you finally settled on with this guy. I've been having a tough time, but my situation is improving I think.
I am currently at 1mm retraction, 20 prime speed, like you said, used their paste.. but after a few layers, like in your example, I was getting separation and weirdness.
I found how to tune the pid, did that...
Used the paste..
I start out nice, only light stringing..
Now after several layers I get large temp fluctuations, like 5+degree.. and invariably the filament doesn't come out.. this used to happen sooner, like in your example, now it's happening much later.. I'm not getting weirdness with my layers now, but the filament either sputters or it gets hung up, possibly at the titanium piece
Would the filament problem also cause the temp, or temp problems screw up how the filament behaves?
I've tried my best, I believe, to tighten things at temperature..
Is there a good way to tighten the titanium more maybe?
Sorta feels like I'm chasing my tail.
I don't have any spray or lube to make things slippery.. there a cheap easy solution to try? (I'm in the Philippines.. Don't exactly have a bounty of 3m or loctite products available.. but can always order.)..
Sorry for the word salad... I'm just exasperated..
I can hear the exasperation. And my friend, I've felt it too. For me once I got the retraction settings tuned, currently I'm using 2mm retraction and 20mm/sec prime speed, almost all the problems but the light stringing went away. I haven't had a clog since. What thermistor are you using? I switched to a screw in type, that seems stable to 300c. Or at least stable as far as the display temps are concerned. I also picked up an inexpensive multimeter that has a temp readout and comes with a K type thermistor, I thought I'd attach that and see if the temps agree. I don't see the filament causing the temp fluctations, although I suppose it could be possible with a filament that's really out of spec in diameter, but I think you'd see that in other things as well. Maybe it needs drying? Are there any signs of it having absorbed too much moisture? Also, when you clean the hot end after a clog are you getting it really clean? I was taking mine out to the garage, heating it with a butane torch and pushing it through with a brass rod. I can't think of much else off the top of my head. Maybe switch back temporarily to the stock hot end just to make sure it's not something else and not the all metal hot end? Good luck!
Thanks
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
i accidentally bought a couple of cheap all metal hot ends for my anycubic i3 mega (it didn't say it was on the product page), and I've been having these issues as well as some extra clogging issues. i've been sitting on it for months not sure what to do about it but im going to use the advise you gave in this video to see if i can get it working again.
If you're having clogging issues I can almost guarantee you it's the retraction amount and the reprime speed. Start the retraction at 1mm and the reprime speed to 25mm/sec. You can work the retraction up 0.5mm at a time until it starts to jam, but I'd leave the reprime speed at 25. Also, an oiler will let you get more retraction, I've gone up to 4mm with one and gotten no jams, if you can live with the hassle of keeping it damp with oil. And this is true of all brands of all metal hot ends, not just the cheap ones.
Those XT-60 connectors that some people have claimed to be fake are apparently not as anyone can make an XT-60 as there are no copy restrictions applied apparently, however they are probably not made from the same quality of plastic or the wiring going into them is not up to spec, but then I discovered my friend has those same XT-60 connectors and has no scorching on them at all and her printer is a workhorse so I am at a loss as to where the fault lies.
Since you got this hot end working has it continued to work well?
The whole "what's fake and what's not" thing is a problem, some of this stuff has been around for a long time and any legal issues with copying it are long over. Also, as shocking as it sounds the Chinese have actually invented some things, or bought the rights to it legally. So the quality issue is what I get most concerned about.
The hot end still works fine, one of them is on the enclosed Ender 3 that I use for ABS, Nylon, PC and similar filaments. Once I got the retraction dialed in I've had no further problems. Also, an oiler will help you boost the retraction up a couple of mm if you have a stringy filament, I just find them annoying to use and if it breaks or falls off during the print there will be a jam.
Is this Hotend in the video (banggood) machined or molding ?
I didn't even know about the harmful gases, my problem was, printing PETG would molten the tube and clog the hot end causing it to almost stop extruding.
Truth be told, I have no idea really how much gas comes out of melting PTFE, only that it's in the material warning info. And I don't know what PETG you're printing, but none of the ones I use really require printing temps at or above the melting point of PTFE.
@@3rdpig I print it at 230°C, the PTFE should not even know it's hot haha but still, it was a bit molten at the end.
thanks egain!!! :)
YW!
Okay watched the whole video looked in the description saw no link to the star of the show! Got a link for this or do I need a beer or two to find it
First, have a beer, because why the hell not? Next, I no longer put in links to Chinese parts because they never stay good for long, even if it's being sold on Amazon. As soon as they go out of stock the link dies and when they come back in stock it's a different link.
So you go to aliexpress.com and type in "Ender 3 all metal hotend" and buy the one that floats your boat. Or , if you'd prefer to buy from Amazon I'll put a link below.
amzn.to/3fcgr7X
Is it okay to put thermal paste in jt? Isn't it desinged for CPUs and low temps? How would it behave at 280?
Can you show how to hook up the two hot ends?
If I can get a few minutes this weekend I'll make a quick video, but there's really not much to it. Put the heater and thermistor in, bolt it in place and push the bowden tube into the fitting. Then heat it about 20c or so over the hottest temp you'll be printing at and tighten the nozzle. Then if you want you can remove the two screws holding the heat block to the cooling tower. Personally I don't it makes much difference if you leave them in, but others will tell you different.
Where do I get a high temp thermistor that fits swiss hot end 6mm×15mm cant seem to find the right one.
Thank you for helping us learn from your mistakes (!) :-)
Prolly don't make much difference, but I think you DO NOT want to promote heat conduction between the heater block and the break (so you don't want to put thermal paste on the bottom threads of the heat break). IIUC, the purpose of the break is to (as much as possible) thermally isolate the heater block. It's made out of titanium (despite the cost) because it is a poor heat conductor.
However, you DO want good heat conduction between the heat break and the heat sink. The heat sink is there precisely to keep the heat break cool so that the filament does not melt UNTIL it reaches the nozzle.
Hi Chuck. Great video. I read somewhere that you can spray a PTFE coating inside the all metal hotend, and that should help with your retractions. Might be somethng worth trying.
It probably would, but it'd also defeat the whole point of an all metal hotend. PTFE when heated to 275c isn't good news, chuck covers this in the video.
hi chuck, i'm new to 3d printing. where do i make the retraction, retration speed and reprime speed changes? the slicer or the firmware? thanks for your help...
In the slicer.
In the Slicer
Thanks so much for the tip about the two screws that hold the heater block to the cooling fins. I've got a metal heat break that converts the stock hot end to an all metal and I keep getting clogs. When I ran filament through it while cold I noticed a bump where the nozzle and throat/heatbreak meet up. I'm guessing I have things too tight and that's causing my issue. I can't wait to get home and loosen them up to see if that resolves my problems.
I've since been informed that those two screws should be removed after installing and
tightening the nozzle when hot.
@@3rdpig I ended up leaving those two screws out when I put everything together to see what would happen as the nozzle is really tight against the heat break. I'm not sure if it's having finally gotten thermal compound on the bottom of the heat break or leaving the screws off or not having them pull the heater block and nozzle at a funny angle but for the first time in a while I've gotten more than 5 hours into a print without it clogging. Thanks again for the helpful video.
i saw 1 that looks like that on ebay for $15... do you think that paste is really necessary? i don't know where to get it anyway... also i watched another video on replacing ender 3 stock with the swiss metal end which looks exactly like the one you installed..he said he had to re calibrate the firmware so nozzle temp got to correct temp as it showed,,can you tell me if this is necessary...sounds like a pain in the ass... thanks for your great explanation..
Don't use heat sink paste, that was a mistake on my part. I should add something about that into that video. I haven't bothered with nozzle temp correction on mine, but to do it you'll need an multi meter with a temp readout and a bulb type thermistor. The Owon OW16 $25 is around Aneng 8909 is $30, either will work. You'll have to use something like nylon filament, pull the bowden tube do an atomic pull to get the filament path completely clear, then put the thermistor directly into the center of the nozzle. I've been meaning to do this and make a video, but just haven't had the chance. As I said, I haven't done it on mine and it's printing fine at the temps I'd been using, but as always, yours may be different.
@@3rdpig Thanks for the update... i actually found 2 on ebay for around $10,but they will probably take 2 plus weeks... they look the same so i will keep my fingers crossed... thats good to know you use same settings so mine should be very close to your results...i use main Petg, do you use same retraction and speed settings as with pla or do you slow things down a little? i hate blobbing and stringing... thanks
7:14 " I know how to solve problems because I made the mistakes" .lol same here. Question- Thermal paste is just another name for "Heat sink paste" right, like the Arctic Silver I use on my PC and PS4 Heat sinks, the same thing different term, or do they have different properties? ps liked and subbed
i discovered rectraction speed must be low .i pushed filament by hand to hotend and pull it back at low and high speed low speed looking like spike so no problem but at high speed filament just jams and diameter of itself increases cause of jam. i will try to print with 25 mm/s at 1mm rectraction and let all know
i have a question. rectraction 1mm @25 or 50mm/s is for bowden or direct drive? and reprime distance is important or not. i have a clog issue. changing nozzle at high temperature and using stock fan and case radiator is nearly 30-40 i guess. stock extruder with 3 or 5mm extra spacer but still clogging. gear doesn't click it just worns the filament out and i use good dry box the moisture is 19% .temperature is 260c but i don't use any socks for nozzle also bowden is stock to only connectors are changed. my print settings are 0.3 nozzle at 0.28 resolution 50mm/s print speed, rectraction 1mm at 50mm/s temperature is 260c combing is enabled. i dont remember much but at first i was able to send extrude command with 100mm at 350 or 500 mm/s but no clog showed up after first print it clogged. first print kinda good no blob or extrusion problems no stringing just all layers was separated it was obvious. what can i do to fix it. iwas able to print abs with stock ender 3 hotend the red one. i builded clone all metal hotend finely used Arctic mx4 thermal paste at radiator part .gently tightened 2 block screws that holds the radiator and nozzle tighten at 260 just unscrewed at cold 8/1 or 6/1 turns before tightening at hot.
@@justchill4886 I've never owned a direct drive hot end, so everything I've reported is for bowden tube. My experience is that clogs with an all metal hot end is due to two things, retraction amount and reprime speed. With retraction at 1 or 2mm and reprime fairly slow, say 20-25mm/sec you should not be getting clogs assuming everything else is correct. Don't run the nozzle hotter than the filament manufacturer calls for and don't run a super close first layer/bed gap. Use a fairly loose gap with a good adhesion method like hairspray or glue stick. Also, if you're still getting clogs try an oiler on the filament, after the feed gears and before the hot end.
@@3rdpig i saw your second video about hotends tightening beak first really helped i use a clone like real no more clogs only rectraction is disabled and that just makes little stringing else it's great only extruder weak at pushing filament ,making belted 2gear extruder would help, I have a question for now does gear quality matters there is bunch at different prices
I don’t know if you’re still reading comments from this vid, being that it’s a year old, but anyway: I got a knockoff, just like the one in this video, but even cheaper. I don’t think it’s a bad part manufacturing that’s giving me this problem. I’ve got an Ender 3 V2, and they have a different fan shroud around the hotend. There is a fan duct thing that directs air directly at the nozzle. Just so happens, when I put on the all metal hotend, the duct comes below it! So the hotend wouldn’t even come close to the bed. Is there a way to put the hotend together so it’s longer, or will that create gaps and cause clogs? Also, if I 3D printed a new mount to hold the hotend lower, would it just melt from being on the hotend, or would it be fine just touching the heartbreak (which I’ve heard only gets to around 90C Max)
I just looked at my original Ender 3 hot end and one of the cheap ones I bought from Ali Express and the original is about 3mm longer. I didn't even notice it until now since it didn't make a difference on the original Ender 3. Any mount to move the hot end down can't be printed from PLA, it's glass transition temperature is around 60c. ABS is around 100 and PC is around 140. Personally I'd want the mount made from aluminum or steel if I went that route. Depending on how the stock mount is made it might be possible to tweak it to fit. But without seeing it I can't offer much help.
But that seems like the most difficult solution. Maybe you can find a nozzle with a longer threaded end. I've got an assortment from different manufacturers and none of them are exactly the same length.
It also might be possible to "adjust" the fan shroud a bit. If it's plastic it can be heated and deformed or a new one can be designed and printed. Maybe check Thingiverse?
I think before I did any of this I'd get on an Ender 3 user group and see if others haven't run into the problem and found a solution.
Good luck!
Chuck Bryant Wow you replied! Thanks for the info. I think I am going to print a new cover. I’ve seen some pretty good designs out there. Loved the video!
But you could just replace the stock ptfe with a copircorn tube to reach higher temps safely right?
I don't think the standard hotend on the Ender 3 get's hot enough for nylon filament.
PTFE is the limitation and is why the max temp is set as it is in the firmware.
@@nestorkropotkin8952 I think the ender 3 can get to 255 max and copircorn tube can withstand temperatures up to 280 based on some research. Also, ive heard you can tweak the firmware to reach higher temperatures.
There are lots of these on Ebay but look at the pics carefully as some are not "all metal". The filament hole through the all metal ones is only big enough for the filament and not the PTFE tube. Some of the pics are assembled only so you must look at the heat break diameter. If it's big enough to pass a PTFE tube it isn't all metal. If you can't see the heat break in the pics they are probably hiding if for a reason. BTW, the lead times are all several months so if you're in a hurry look elsewhere. I couldn't find them on Amazon.
I know they're not all "all metal". And I can see I need to do an update to this video as it's still getting comments after all this time. Stay tuned!
@@3rdpig All metal hot ends are catching on. I think people are afraid to appear dumb by asking what it is so they lurk until they figure it out. I don't care who thinks I'm dumb so I ask.
The average Bowden tube isn't all that uniform, sized correctly nor evenly inside nor are they very smooth inside. The Capricorn tubes exist for a reason. It's absolutely worth the extra $15 for a Capricorn tube to replace the OEM Bowden tube. They're smoother inside (think "Wet ice on Wet ice"), uniform (meaning your filament moves smoothly and evenly through Capricorn tube's entire length) in size and shaped as circular/round inside making retractions and extrusions nice, smooth and as fast as the extrusion motor moves the filament with no slowing caused by the tube. I very much recommend eliminating that white OEM Bowden tube and changing to a Capricorn if you're going to print at the outrageously high temps Nylon requires (and frankly you want to add a Keenovo AC bed heater and Solid State Relay to convert the DC bed signal to an AC bed signal so the Keenovo AC bed functions very fast and exceptionally well - The Keenovo AC beds can cross well over 300°C, far more than you'll ever need and will hit the 120°C to 180°C Nylon filament calls for in well under 2 minutes
Just asking how the all metal hot end works with PLA, so many all metal hot ends do not do well with PLA as it seems to drag and stick to metal to much.
The trick is the retraction settings. You can't retract 5mm into an all metal hot end, it will stick and jam when it primes. I tried 0.5mm which gave me horrible stringing across open areas, but didn't jam. I kept increasing until I got to 2.0 mm retraction which so far is working well, little to no stringing and no jamming. I also cut the prime speed to 20mm/sec which also seems to help with jamming.
I won't say that PLA prints are quite as good as it was with the stock hot end, but it's close and perfectly acceptable to me. But I have other printers with standard hot ends. If I only had one printer and printed mostly in PLA I might think differently.
I’am having trouble with my ender 3 clogging up in the hotend, it’s almost like the ptfe tubing is getting to hot down near the nozzle and melting the pla filament before it actually gets to the nozzle. Not sure what to do? 😢😕
Is it the stock hot end, fittings and nozzle? If so, have you made sure the PTFE tube is going all the way down into the hot end until it contacts the nozzle? (Note this doesn't apply to all metal hot ends). Any gap between the tube and the nozzle will cause you problems like clogging. If you're in doubt, use something like a chunk of wire coat hanger to measure the distance between the top of the nozzle and the top of the bowden tube fitting. Mark that distance on your tube, it should shove all the way in until it contacts the nozzle and your mark is flush with the top of the fitting.
It’s all good now, seems to be working great. All i had to do was switch over to my 0.6 nozzle and clean out the heat sink thing, then i half unturned the nozzle before i put everything back together. Once it was back together I tightened the nozzle using the half turn that i left. I also marked the ptfe tube to make sure it was seating properly.
Where do you get heat sink paste?
Can't find any thermal paste/heat sink paste rated for 300C
You're probably not going to find any rated for 300c. I use one of the products with finely ground metal like Arctic Silver and figure that even if all the liquid burns away the metal powder will remain.
@@3rdpig Thank you! which one do you use?
Don't use thermal paste and if you really want to use paste, use boron nitride one.
nice, now how can you make the stock Ender 3 goes to 310 degree ? is it just setting ?
It's in the firmware. You'll need to flash a bootloader, then flash stock Marlin to it with the Ender 3 additions. I've got a video on it, so does Teaching Tech. Thanks for watching!
Chuck Bryant thanks for your fast and accurate answer
Hi!
Very good... but, where's the 7$ hotend link?
Thanks
banggood is the website
Got mine here: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X2XNS4Y/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Caveat: the heat block is aluminum and does not have the parallel holes for the heatsink.
I see that this cheap all metal hotend comes in two flavors: 1.75mm and 4.1mm. The seller claims that 4.1mm version is for printing temperatures 0°C-220°C, and 1.75mm version is for 260°C-300°C. Do I really need to replace hotends when switching between nylon and PLA?
The 4.1 mm is probably not an all metal hot end, the 4.1mm is the size needed to push the bowden tube all the way down to the top of the nozzle. 1.75 stops the bowden tube just past the top fitting and only allows the filament through. And while you don't need to swap hot ends when switching between nylon and PLA, you'll get better quality prints with PLA and a non all metal hot end because you can crank the retraction up to a level that will clog an all metal hot end. It's not a huge difference and there are ways to lessen it, but it is there.
@@3rdpig Ok, so I will give a try to 1.75mm version. Thanks!