Australia's Defence Force Recruitment Crisis Explained | The Hollowmen
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
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After an embarrassing incident at an air force base brings military recruitment into the headlines, the Central Policy Unit must make joining Australia's Defence Force appealing to Generation Y.
Season 1 Episode 5: Military Matters
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The Hollowmen was a straight-faced and fast paced comedy-drama set in the offices of the Central Policy Unit, a special think tank set up by the Prime Minister to help him in his most important task - getting re-elected.
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"I wouldn't call it is a crisis"
Because it's not a crisis?
"Because we've been ordered not to"
Thts a crisis in of itself
'We face the ADF's greatest threat...' (Who is that..?) " mining companies' LMAO.
lol, as someone serving in the adf, it is too real. Especially STEM. ADF stem pay is shit so all the decent guys leave soon as their IMPS is over and hit the mines for a big payday, or civilian defence contractor. Civillian analyst with kpmg etc is big as well since the LNP fucked it by cutting our homegrown analysis capabilities to effectively zero. all you have left after 5 years are all the shit ones that cant hold a stable job otherwise which drives more to leave because no one wants to work with incompetent morons.
My time in the military taught me that star ranks arent promoted because they are great leaders. There are a few exceptions i will admit that. Canberra picks the worst possible examples of anything to ensure that a coupe doesnt take place. There has been only one CDF that could encourage me to drink water in a draught and that was Cosgrove, everyone since would struggle to get a starving person to eat three meals. We are also extremely top heavy, is there a need for a commissioned officer for every 2 sailors or soldiers? The retention of enlisted personnel is 1 to 3% stay for 15 years. Commissioned its over 90%. Those numbers show how pathetic the current leadership is.
Hang on so Australia ripe for a coupe and the only reason it hasn’t happened is due to the higher ups putting unqualified personnel into roles of leadership?
the Australian military is unimportant. There's no nasty folks trying to invade. If we could just stop invading others, we could simply transform the military into a useful construction outfit.
Promotion is a tool to encourage people to stay in the service. It's a bribe
While we do need a Military, we could also use a Nuclear Power Station on the East Coast. Use that to just build a handful of Nuclear Ballistic Missiles and we'd be forever safe from invasion. We wouldn't even have to Nuke China on their way over here. Just encourage them to land in the North West. We can evacuate all our people inside 12 hours, like we do for cyclones, then we Nuke them on our own Soil. I know this sounds ridiculous if you've never been up there. But the British Tested Nuclear Weapons on the Montebello Islands in the 1950's, and seriously, you can't tell the bloody difference from the surrounding landscape. And we'd probably find Iron Ore in the bottom of the Crater. Although, after we'd Nuked the Chinese Army, I'm not sure who we'd sell it to...
I don't think you understand how our army is structured so lets take an example. Nazi Germany.
Right before WW2 Nazi Germany appeared to have the problem you are mentioning. The vast majority of it's Army where commissioned officers and most of them where for non-combat roles. And yet they fixed this issue in a couple of years. Because it wasn't an issue, it was a strength.
It takes decades to build a good officer corps, and 6 months to make a good infantry man. If we did go to war the Australian army can easily be scaled up as we already have all the guys who need years of training trained. So instead of having loads of actual front line troops during peace time our army is mostly structured around it's tail rather than it's teeth, because it saves money and growing in teeth doesn't take that long.
I spent 30 years in uniform and love this stuff. Also I'd like to point out that there's only one service where it's compulsory for their personnel to wear shorts.
Tasmanians? 😊😊
It's not compulsory in any service.
@@darrenm5279 Unless it's changed in the last few years, shorts are mandated summer dress for Junior Sailors depending on dress of the day
A Don does not wear shorts - Carmine Lupertazzi
30 years is a long time to go without taking your uniform off! You must’ve been a pongo…😂
The Hollowmen actually fits a great description of our ADF senior staff. No decent thoughts about the lower ranks, whilst fulfilling their own ambitions.
100% bang on ❤😂😂😂
thats every orrificer ever
thoughts on the lower ranks are expressed at the end
Army has a massive problem with not being able to retain anyone in logistics. Even senior NCOs are leaving at a higher than normal rate (usually they stick around so long you have to boot them from defence). So they've announced they're going to investigate how to recruit and retain more logistics staff. Part of this involves paying multiple civilian companies to come up with ideas and investigate.
Not even a mention of just PAYING STAFF MORE.
When I left I walked straight into the exact same job I was already doing for more money and less responsibility. Why would anyone want to stay in.
This is the problem across multiple departments. I personally think they are doing it to justify privatisation of more things. Base guards are already private contractors. They get paid more than soldiers and the number of people who can sneak onto base...
People talk about how private industry is do much harder... When I went from government to private my pay went up, my responsibility went down and my hours went down.
100% mate. I'm a truckie in civi land by trade. Defence is absolute dog 💩 pay for a truckie. You're paid as a HR driver yet you have the responsibility of a HC/MC driver. In civi land an MC driver will land you $120k a year minimum!
You know who gets hit the hardest? Mechanics, be it navy marine technicians, army and RAAF mechanics. They get paid literally half of what you'd get as a qualified tech in civi land. Only good thing is decent apprenticeship wages compared to civi land. However that's why they lock you into a 7 year IMPS.
Throw toxic leadership, DFDA restrictions, restricted service and maintaining fitness standards. No wonder they're failing to recruit people for logistical and technical roles.
Pay really matters in peace time.
I mean defence of the nation typically falls to bogans. There's jobs that need a higher degree of foresight. But without matching the benefits of civilian counterparts, people with said foresight won't join. On top of that turning away every bogan who applied for a combat role also kills their national pride, why fight for a country that says ya not good enough to catch bullets? So the end result is total recruitment failure, all to be pointed at bureaucrats who seem to either hate or have to apathy towards the working and middle classes, who keep the lights on and cars moving. Being in the army and especially the navy given out British heritage, should be a life boost, but it's not, you take all the risk, less pay and get treated like shit in the media if ya go and do ya job in a way they don't like (not warcrimes but the confederate flag jokes and eradication joke with Americans will never be not funny ect) got long winded and philosophical there but fuck, they don't want the lower working class enlisting, they don't let the lads have fun in the way edgy young men normally do. And the pay is garbage. You'd be surprised how much can be let go if ya let boys be boys in the combat arms and pay the pencil pushers atleast what their civilian counterparts make with the benefits of being in the ADF ei: home loans and job security.
@@kingbillycokebottle5484 I think you might have the wrong idea of what the Australian army is like. Yeah, there is antics, but the infantry want professionals, not boys, beside them. My brother had a huge gripe with recruitment because they let too many people through who horses around all the time. He was ok with a bit, but not with the amounts some went to. In his battalion they had an entire company that was created just to have the ineffective or unprofessional people who managed to get through recruitment and training. This company never deployed and on training exercises had by far the highest injury rate. Most people in rehab platoon came from that company. That's one third of a battalion that was ineffective and pretty much unusable in the eyes of the other soldiers.
And no... they don't care about stoking national pride. One of the biggest problems I think is Australia's 'national pride.' Afghan and Iraq veterans aren't in the RSL and many don't march on ANZAC Day because Australia ignored them. WW1 and WW2 are still the focus. Australia spends more than any other country in the world on monuments. We spent half a billion on commemorating WW1's centenary. My local RSL spent $30k on a monument. Yet in the ANZAC Day article in the local rag they didn't mention Afghan veterans.
Agree on pay though. If a security guard earns more than a soldier, you have a problem.
"You're more likely to get shot in Kalgoorlie." - Nick
That was gold!
spat out my lunch at the computer what a delivery
You joke-retyping commenters are such a godsend for all the deaf viewers! How would they ever know a joke was told unless one of you repeated it in the comments!
@@KamikazeCommie501 I like learning how to spell "Kalgoorlie"
The issue in summary is;
The military wants skilled, qualified and competent soldiers.
It's attempting to use pre-established filters to find these people (university degree's etc)
The military does not have the money to compete with private companies for said qualified people.
Military then recruits unemployed, skill-less high school dropouts.
They then have a skill shortage.
The cycle continues back to point 1.
Well advertise that they'll train them up and actually do it. Give the unskilled workers skills and a wage that matches their civilian counterparts and men will join in droves. Nationalise mining to pay for it. Plenty of ship builders in the country, use the mining profits build a new fleet. The govt just doesn't wanna spend the money to make Australia competitive. They just wanna sit on their arses and do fuck all. I know dole bludgers that could run the country better than most politicians, sure it'd be more corrupt, but shit would get done and the corruption would be honest "yeah ya doin this, cos I fuckin said so and I have pay the wages, got it?!" The nerds have the power and it's disgusting.
Exactly this. Outside the army, my job pays $85k+Super+bonuses. In defence...$50k+Super. Why the hell would I want to join for the so-called privilege of serving my country? Fuck that, I've got bills to pay.
60k in the infantry, 200k in my current role. And without being treated like dirt. No wonder I left!
I thought the whole deal with joining the army for us was to gain practical skills like driving or welding etc.
@@bigboi7817 You can do that in the civvie sector, for more money and less bs
When this came out, I had been in a couple of years. Army was needing more people in skilled trades because of mining but also once you do a few deployments you might lose the desire to do it again. We were still in Iraq and Afghanistan so we needed to keep it going. They started paying bonuses to sign on again.
Then in 2009 with the GFC, the recruitment woes ended because thousands of broke people with credit card debt enlisted.
This was a *great* show, deserved more recognition!
when i was at the Avalon airshow they'd always ask what i did for work and when i said fitting and turning apprentice they were always so quick to point me towards Aircraft Technician lol, quite happy where im at, military doesn't have huge incentives if your already employed
My Father was a F& T, always provided for us.😅
I had always wanted to serve from when I was in school until about 2 years after year 12. I'd had a belt of a mental breakdown just after year 12 with a realisation I'd not got good enough grades to go down the officer route. So I took the first trade I could which was a diesel mechanic. I still had a want to serve so went through application process about 2 years into doing my trade with a view to continue on and finish it in defence. Going the the process they'd made it pretty clear they didn't want me in the trade that I'd started and wanted to finish, and so that was that, end of the school boy dream. 10 years on, trade completed and now have my own workshop. Although I small part of me still wishes I got to wear that sharp blue service dress uniform.
@@tb_fifty3 Always liked the Navy uniform, got accepted but never joined.
@@highcountrydelatite I've not had any mental health issues, nothing that required counseling or medication or anything. I mean we all get a bit down occasionally but you pick your socks up and move on. For reference a good percentage of my circle of friends either went into engineering or aircrew. And I just missed the mark and it became a very sore point for some time, that I had failed to achieve what they did achieve. It was only years later that sparked a desire to try again in an area that I was already working in.
the only real incentive is to get the training and bail, basically treat it like an apprenticeship with bed and board
I studied marine engineering in a paramilitary naval college and we had to wear shorts like that. Never understood why they had to be so tight?
Because Officers like to keep an eye on their Privates....
Co I NEED to see that cIick
Hello sailor 😉😉
@Dax Riley too good 😂
They were so tight because you got them in the wrong size. Should've gone a size or two up
The way the hierarchy, politicians, and the media in this country treat the blokes doing the hard yards should be enough to dissuade anyone from joining.
Absolutely loved the hollowmen. I always wished there were more seasons. Even better than the (admittedly excellent) Utopia
As an Australian, I can safely say that I've been given zero reason to even want to go in to our military. Hearing about the incompetence and outright negligence of the higher ranks is bad enough, but for those same people to then turn around and blame the common person for the manpower shortage? What's there to fight for? That's excluding the domestic front, yet it's already reason enough to refuse service. I will continue to do my best to do good for my fellow common Australians, but it's blatantly apparent that the military is at the service of the bastards further up the ladder.
100k for a diesel fitter on a mine? Try double that and a bit.
$100,000 is about what a dumpy driver can get and it's probably more now. My last mining job, driving dumpies, I grossed about $105,000 and that was about five years ago and on a 7 - 7 roster!
@@michaelboyce7079 Do they dock you any pay to stay/eat at camp? Also, do you have to pay out of pocket for FIFO? Asking for a friend.
@@misledpoet
No, flights to and from the mine and food and lodging are all free. I doubt they would get many takers if they charged for it. The majority of mines are very remote and the scenery is mostly rocks and spinifex grass and a few tortured looking trees. Usually, it's hot and dry and dusty in summer and freezing cold and dusty in winter. People are there for the money and little else!
@@misledpoet a lot of mines in Queensland will pay rent assistance if you live local on top of your pay.
@@misledpoet NO
For me I love this country so much and wanted to join the military but I have a brother in the Air Force and the main deterrent for me was hearing about the incompetent leadership and all the ass kissing making it literality impossible for genuine and competent people to get into leadership positions which makes it a miserable experience and actually quite dangerous as you have to put your live in the hands of officers who have never been soldiers
That's definitely just emotive hyperbole.
I know someone who was told by the selection board that he was 'too academic' to be an officer but that they would be happy to have him as an enlisted man.
@@WiggaMachiavelli That's what he told you I'm sure
@@ImTheHulk66promoting ass kissers is a common military problem. Americans have the same issue. Promotions need to be based on performance, but no one so far has thought of just letting the units fight each other.
I was a kid when this came out, now I'm a soldier living this out.
Damn, wasn't quite quick enough to grasp the lessons 😆
quit your job. Stop being so evil. Why you got to murder so many folks, ya brute
What will you do when they want you to shoot your own countrymen?
@@TheBushrangianOrderit should be completely normal for a young man to want to give of himself to his country, unfortunately Australia makes that a little difficult🤣
@RiTchieKII "should be normal." You're joking, I hope, it's not normal at all to kill another person, most people in the world never have nor will, what's not normal is dehumanising the enemy in the mind of the soldiers who are not capable of killing a complete stranger because they are programmed to respond without thinking when ordered or psychologically they would reject the order
The real irony is - we've never been short of actual Infantry and other Combat Arms. We had waiting lists of around 2 years for Rifleman up till recently. And 'Trips' is what keep people IN. Now that there are no more trips anywhere THAT'S why retention is going down the shitter. Peacetime/Garrison soldiering is crap. Full of tediousness and boredom with career rank prowling to jump on Digs for idiotic and spurious reasons just to kill time. We need better incentives for people to enlist in specialist and non-combat (pogue) roles. We need our own version of the US's GI Bill. Pay people's University/TAFE tuition IF they complete 4 years service. Introduce more 'Specialist' roles so people in technical fields can be rewarded (paid better) for their work while not having to climb the rank chain ... and ironically do less technical work.
And yes - someone needs to drag the Pussers into the 21st century and ditch the shorts, bellbottoms and bibs ... now that everything else that have inclinations for isn't frowned upon ... and the Airforce needs to be held accountable for those StreetFighter uniforms ...
yep........but we won't. We think the fact we are an island means we are untouchable.
Well said. And doesn’t seem like we’ll change the street fighter costume. So long as digs do stupid shit, the raaf will never be in green
Trips?
@@kahlzun Deployments.
@shaan wing In what context? The ADFA? or for Private soldiers, NCO's? Or after your service is completed (GI Bill style)?
I love that the two sailors present at that meeting were a clearance diver and a chefo
Only takes one cook to spoil the ....
Logistics wins wars, for every troop you have fighting you usually need at least 3 or 4 to keep them supplied and able to fight.
more like 9 or 10 mate. In the modern army you need at least four to just remember pronouns
I do wonder where that came from because i keep hearing this from the americans which lose every war. and knowing how they like to make everything stupid pointless and expensive and wasteful.
I think it's gone up to 8 for every 1 on the front now between the truck drivers forklift drivers and warehousing staff as well as maintenance staff for the weapons and vehicles
@@summersoldier1003i want to laugh. But its sad how soft the army is now compared to 2 decades ago
@@sirmatthew2003 Agreed man it's almost embarrassing. When our orrificers came down with all that this is the new army crap I could see the writing on the wall. The biggest thing for me is we used to be small and proud and efficient point diggers at a task and either scratch off your list or decide what your going to build in its place. You knew the guy next to you was well trained and reliable. Now standards have lowered and slipped that far you don't have that security anymore. DEI has no place in a meritocracy.
Australia's version of yes minister. Should have aired longer.
The same creators have another show currently running called "Utopia" which is just as good if not better.
The comment about Kalgoorlie and the response from the room gave me flashbacks to Bernard.
"I wouldnt say crisis...weve been ordered not to"
God damn...we just had a memo that got ran in the news from the CDS office where the MND told him not to call the budget cuts cuts. Cause itll adversely effect morale. 🙄
"I wouldn't say *crisis* , I've been ordered not to..."
Truer than you might think. When Navy had their "all do each others jobs" thing (deluded, we never did, but planet Canberra adamant we did) we had weapons/weapon systems/comms people, and they were called "W/S/C rates". We were told that "we couldn't call them that anymore." On the ships we laughed and ignored it. But any high level meeting, you "weren't allowed to use obsolete tech/not the case anymore." Pffft, we were always W/S/C rates, and always will be. Recently Canberra had a "wonderful new idea" = specialise!!!!" And they all got the letters back/allowed to call them W/S/C rates.
You can't make stuff this stupid up...........
(And don't get us started about changing the name of dangerous incidents/accidents so they don't look as bad on a report...........................)
This was accurate when the show first aired let alone now 😂😂
Two of my brothers-in-law were in submarines in the 70's. Both left to much higher pay, in jobs in civilian workplaces. It seems nothing has changed.
Having no deployments kills recruitment and retention. Everyone loves when deployments are going.
It's true.
My thoughts exactly. Peace time armies bleed soldiers. People hate training if you can't use your skills.
Imagine training for football for $55k a year but never playing a game. You'd leave pretty quickly.
@@MrZoomah dad was kept on for his mandatory service in 72 (spent months training ready to go to Vietnam in 71) and was just told to keep training and play with his dick. He hated it. Maybe we should just start a maritime empire, starting with Papua that has tribal wars breaking out ATM and Indonesia doing shifty shit in the west, then just start annexing islands in our neighbourhood, they already have rights to come and work here might as well bring em into the fold and make them all territories of Australia and provide security in exchange for taxes instead of just doing it for free as we are now. If Britain doesn't want the empire we might as well take it, I mean it's just sitting there. The ocker Raj just has a nice ring to it. But seriously just do what America does and intrude on everyone's business, not like many countries will say no to a bit of free security, the lads get blooded, and we become a scarier country to go to war with. Take Somali land, literally has no government and it's just tribes killing eachother for dominance, sounds like free real-estate, idle hands wanting jobs and security, jobs that would pay taxes, taxes that will provide them with the infrastructure to create mojobs and motaxes. Make colonialism great again. Nationalise mining to pay for the initial costs, I doubt China will stop paying for coal and iron.
Except no one wants to deploy against a near peer enemy. It's all fun and games in Iraq and Afghanistan where we had dominance in every aspect.
@@goofiegoofball Hehe. Good point. No one likes training for 18 months only to fight a cruise missile.
Aside from the dig at non-'warfighting' soldiers and the bit about war hurting recruitment (its the opposite) this was quite a funny little clip.
Exactly
Issue with war is that they get a lot of people who come to fire guns. Issue is that having a lot of them looks good, but who is going to drive them to the front? Or their supplies they need at the front? Or keep those trucks going? Sure, long term, if those numbers stay high you can fill it from those who are happy to take on roles like that over running about with a gun, you fill them without issue in the event of a war. But you need time to ensure you get them to a good enough quality for what you need, and people happy to do that. Which means making sure things stay a way that makes sure that happens (aka moral remains high).
Besides, point of their joke is more for peacetime. When you want to make the look of an armed forces seem scary so you don't have to use it. Gets hard if half the people want to leave.
@@Squato wat?
@@thehastywombat The point of the joke was that have an issue with recuritment of personal for the army. Which, when people hear that, they think we need more front line troops and the like. In reality, the defence forces do not have an issue with getting people for those roles. Never have.
The issue they have is in getting people for the support roles (aka the non-frontline jobs). These are your cooks, your sparkies, your doctors, your drivers, your mechanics, or any of those other background roles that ensure everything else works. This has been a big issue for years, more so during peacetime. Hence the point made about going to fix trucks in Afghanistan for $40k (the then base pay for that role in 2008 when this was aired) over working on some mine in the arse end of WA and getting three times that pay.
It is not an issue of quantity, it is about quality.
Thank you for explaining logistics to us mortals. Very clever.
Gee who'd of thought that when you treat people like shit uneccesarly they'd leave in droves and spread the word 😂
Yeah. Who would ***have*** thought?
You Aussies are not lucky to have this shebang going on. 😔
Yep did 6 years in the Australian Army. If you want to retain staff you have to compete with private sector wages.
Just out of curiosity what made you decide to leave?
True, in any modern military. We don’t need “soldiers,” we need HR specialists, accountants, technical experts, engineers, etc.
I read somewhere that during the Great War (1914-1918), for every one British soldier fighting at the front, there needed to be twenty other people to feed, cloth, and equip him.
I don't know if that is true, but it seems right, given the saying that logistics win wars.
I tried to join almost 10 years ago, the line of people wanting to join was out the door and they just found any excuse to reject me
Similar thing happened to me. They want highly educated people to do the technical jobs, which is ridiculous. Who goes to school to join the defence force? They should train people who may otherwise not be eligible under the current criteria
Same thing for five times. Might as well hide when a war is on.
@@smeglips they need to pay more to compete or provide enough benefits it’s worth it
Why would I work in the ADF as an accountant for 60k a year when I can get a job at a private company and make over 100k a year? There’s simply no incentive. Not to mention this country is hardly even worth fighting for nowadays.
This is hilarious.
When I aced my aptitude test, I was asked if I was coached. I laughed and answered no, at the time I was unemployed and was barely keeping up with food and rent. Unlike the private school teenagers also there, I couldn't buy success.
Didn't hear back, ever.
Same deal here, aced the aptitude test but failed the psych, apparently "you could die crossing the street, you could die from an brain bleed taking a shit, getting killed in service of ones country doesn't sound so bad " was the wrong answer and three attempts later I'm now banned from entry. Fuck em, if they want logistical staff they should advertise a pack of pencil pushers not soldiers. Don't want bogans? Maybe don't call yaselves the Australian army, call yaselves the Melbourne and Adelaide cooks association. No bogan wants to push paper even if we could be bothered to qualify. Mining and trades pay more anyway.
Im gonna be honest I was at a Usession for the ADF after i did my aptitude test and when I was told that I could do like 90% of all jobs in the military I was happier then when I finished highschool ahaha.
And you watch mate. Come a time of national or global crisis of war, people like you and I will be forced into the draft. Imagine been rejected from volunteering only to be told you have to serve just because they need bodies.
Mmm. Very strange. The ADF aren’t necessarily picky with recruits. They don’t have time to reject out of intimidation. They literally could not give less of a shit about you being smarter than them. I’d say you must’ve caused multiple major red flags across the interdisciplinary hire committee. It really can go down to “yeah he’s a bright man, but total wanker” and if multiple people say that; then it is verrrryyyy unlikely they were the problem.
@@highcountrydelatite you are missing my point entirely mate. What I am saying is. How the hell is it right that you would be forced into service after been rejected when you tried to serve voluntary. I am in the recruitment process mate and have not been rejected once throughout the process thank you very much.
Merrick's character was perfect for this show
Sounds like the issues that the New Zealand Defence Force are having in retaining skilled personnel and specialists due to low pay.
nah it not that it's cos all 4 sheep that are serving are racist.
Accurate, my 100K Army job is worth over 200K on civie street for way less commitment. Hence, I hung up the uniform and never looked back.
What do you do?
@@handsomesquidward5160 keyboard warrior
In reality the lack of deployments destroys retention and recruitment
100% been in almost 10 years and never left aus. Safe to say quite jaded
@@highcountrydelatite never said about wanting to keep going to war. But i joined to deploy see the world and do some good work.
More trips for the boys!
@@highcountrydelatite it’s literally the job, like my current brigade commander likes to push, while 80% of our time might be spent in barracks doing random stuff that’s only 20% of our job, the job is warfighting, training to go into combat, so don’t be surprised when people get frustrated when they never get the chance to actually do that job for real. You don’t sign up to the military with no intention of fighting, unless you’re just trying to get a free ride during peacetime.
@@asneakychicken322 I mean, if you watch the full episode that's how they end up fixing it - pitching it to people looking for a pathway towards cheap higher education xD But then public approval ratings of the president go down, because he looks soft, so they have to pull the ad and return to having a dysfunctional military :')
another dangerous location for ADF members is Career Expos. Recently have been losing our booth people to the mining companies.
0:06 gets me every time 😂😂😂😂
Too accurate and realistic
I little terrifying how accurate this is
Its sad how true every part of this skit is.
Funny as…also liked The Bats ‘North by North’ at the end…
For 6 years for every 1 person who marched in 3 discharged, our unit became a ghost town
Which unit and what made them leave do you think? I'm considering joining
My son applied a few years back, he passed all the requirements but the IT vacancies were reserved for women to meet gender quota's (as were many roles in the ADF). So he, like I'm sure many others did gave up on the idea.
Quotas are killing the adf they even have diversity officers now
I’m currently trying to enlist as an officer for the gap year (they sent me an email putting me through to assessment stage today) am I gonna be turned away because I’m a 6 foot tall white male who goes to private school????
@@jacobmate1537 tell them you identify as an indigenous woman and you should be fine.
@@jacobmate1537 its ok you are that rare now you are classed as a minority
@@kazdean ahahaha
This was such a great show, shame it didn't have more seasons.
"You're more likely to get shot in Kalgoorlie" I was laughing my guts out when I heard that. Why? I had an ex who grew up there and the stories she'd tell, oh boy.. Yeah, I'd much rather Afghanistan to Kalgoorlie :P
Isn't it ok until the sun goes down?
It's fine until all the miners clock off and go to the pub with the South Africans
So true to life 😢. Ses in cams atm and that's what is killing the numbers.
This is so accurately funny😂😂
Brilliant, remember seeing it years ago, still relevant now . . . but he keeps saying Australian Defence Forces . . . there's no s . . . makes me twitch every time ;-)
I'd love it if the actors displayed a modicum of "military bearing". The brigadier looks like a drunk guy at the bar explaining something to the barman.
kinda sounds like every brigadier to me
Pretty much every BRIG i've served under is like that.
Not when they are in meetings with department higher ups. They act very different.
I've been a civvy at DOD in Canberra. Mixed civvy/military areas are fascinating, there are highly qualified military personnel that struggle to get jobs because they can't stop saluting people in mixed environments, even when they're explicitly ordered not to. As for Navy shorts... they are a bit short, but I think I'd prefer shorts than sinking in a boat while wearing trousers and black leather shoes.
Believe it or not, there is some logic to short shorts. A logic Australia is likely to find out only too soon.
Sounds like bullshit to me!
More like ADF doesn't need any more Brass and Crusties.
The Regular Army has one LTCOL or above for every 10.35 Privates, and one Warrant Officer for every 3.5 Privates.
That's a LTCOL who should be commanding about 500 soldiers as a Battalion in charge of a half-platoon.... or going to meetings in shorts.
I don't have to much issue with officer filled platoons. Our first battle plan can be Operation GetBehindTheCannonFodder
Senior NCOs could run the ADF more efficiently than the Officer Corps 🔥 and that would save the ADF hundreds of millions
Point out how the government designed our war fighters not to have mean or scary insignias , patches or flags.. they are there to kill the enemy, by day or by night regardless of season, weather or terrain. Instilling fear into the enemy combatants is a huge mental war benefit.... better remove it incase of feewings 😢😢
Current CDF is a libtard for coming up with that idea, the brass are fucking useless at the moment
I made it through to the final round of recruitment at duntroon and even made it to split decision on the final board, Out of the ~10 people in my group they only took the obese diversity hire who didnt pass the physical, needless to say I never bothered reapplying.
ive got my board in 2 months time. And my recruitment officer only now tells me "oh you might be a bit young for GSO officer entry" like if im too young why do you advertise and start recruiting me into it. If I don't get in as GSO or ADFA then they can get stuffed, ill just go to Uni.
Edit: I was really mad, just made it nicer
Apparently the adf hire diversity officers now lol how sad is that
They will trim down fatties. Leadership qualities matter.
Damn maybe I should’ve gone through, im not obese but am overweight
@@highcountrydelatiterecruiting is civilians and civi’s know Jack sht
I grew up near kapooka and had a lot to do with the base. What I saw was all it took to keep me from ever contemplating joining the military 🪖 bastardisation and abuse the least of it.
I’ve worked in the education system and now work in the health care system and both have similar problems to the military. Too many overpaid bureaucrats at the top and not enough people doing the ‘boring stuff’ at the bottom, ie actually teaching in a classroom or treating patients. And they’re surprised at the looming shortages of teachers & nurses.
I guess that being part of "the tail" isn't quite as "sexy" as being at "the tip" and if they don't have pay and conditions at least comparable to what's offered in civilian industry, the defence forces will just keep bleeding personnel off to better offers.
I wouldn’t call it a crisis….we’ve been ordered not to…..about right.
I served in the 80-90's and much later in life worked for Defence Recruiting. The number of people who asked - "Could I be sent overseas" or "will I have to fight" was embarrassing, and took all of my self control not to tell them to go and join the Scouts or Guides (no offence intended to those organisations).
"people who fight." "Oh, no, we don't need those"...... sadly that's the mindset. 😂
That's not what he said, and the statement is accurate. The ARA for example is well provisioned with riflemen, but lacking in support and logistical roles, a modern army can't function without the latter.
@@lachyt5247standing civilian militia, anyone??
Riflemen can be trained in months, and the skills aren't transferable.
Mechanics take a few years to be trained, and they can get a job outside the ADF in a heartbeat.
@@wormbo2 The concept of a civilian militia in modern warfare is a meme.
We have waiting lists of up to 2 years for Rifleman. We've always had enough of those.
Something like 50% of people who work in the army are not employed by the army, they are outside contractors! Anybody have security concerns.....?
SERCO making bank
RAN and their shorts . . .😂
evens them out when they run
Just a timely reminder that to keep 6 nuclear submarines going we are going to need an extra three thousand people (according to four corners) and they will need to be electrical, nuclear, marine engineer, and other types of specialists!
Yeah but you don't need thousands of people to produce fuel and refuel them given they never need refuelling for their 33 year service life.
@@jadsmvs8651 Oil is imported dip shit and refining is done by civis anyways
I'm not sure if there are are 3000 florists artists, Photographers. Wedding planners, School teachers to recruit from.
The outro music is the Bats and the group is a reference to a Nick Hager book?
That BRIG must've been 5 years old when he served in Vietnam!
Is it too late to get another season made?!
I think a new season of Utopia is in the works at least
Yeah, it's funny, but the problem is it is also very very true.
Sorry for the rant. It is just frustrating watching govt mismanaging our people. Scroll by if you aren't interested, but read if you really want reality of how govt mismanage your taxes.......................................
The govt just DO NOT understand what the word "incentive" means. Some of the things they do are absolutely ludicrous.
Anyone who has served can rattle off dozens of cases where it is obvious policy makers have NO IDEA.
I did 40 years in the Navy. I absolutely loved it, loved what we did and achieved, and the people you serve with are amazing/make it a privilege. Pity the govt make it FAR harder than it needs to be.
Examples? As I said, zillions. But here are a couple of rippers.
1. Give conditions of service in a contract "set in stone" - that then get eroded/made worthless. Super schemes that have the tax changed AFTER contracts signed to make them far less use. ONLY the govt could knobble long term members like that.
2. They gave the submariners a bonus (and so they should, it is a very hard life) and that pay put them in RBL level (Income level for super penalties). So that meant the BONUS gave them a PENALTY that they didn't get at the time, but sits there accruing interest, and they pay that YEARS LATER when they discharge. I say again, a bonus to keep critically short personnel you CANNOT GET ELSEWHERE that attracts a penalty, and that penalty cannot be paid up front, but has to accrue interest for later. ONLY the govt could do something THAT STUPID.
3. Conditions of service. When I joined, we got certain benefits. Those benefits were to compensate for no overtime/no union/ living cramped on ships........ and to offset the pay civilian industry pay people who go away. We understood that, perfectly logical, and it worked very well. Then the govt brought in FBT (fringe benefits tax) NO ONE is exempt. FBT was designed to stop CEO's getting paid in Ferrari's and Penthouses, NOT for sailors. And yet while it doesn't affect all, it affects between 15 to 25% of defence at any one time. So, sailors (myself included) find themselves NOT using the benefits/paying for flights to see next of kin ourselves, because FBT makes the BENEFIT "more expensive" than buying it myself. Again, only govt could manage that.
They brought in a housing assist mortgage interest subsidy. At the end of the presento, the guy said "Oh, and it IS subject to FBT." 30% of the audience sighed/swore, got up and walked out.
4. Changing structure/org at GREAT EXPENSE for no gain, in fact, to make things worse. They restructure employment categories within, and they just don't work. Ask anyone who served. They then morph back to "what was" and if they wait long enough, hope no one will remember. Eg, technical sailors "all had to do each others jobs" and "not specialists". We NEVER did, Canberra just "thought we did". Changed all doctrine, uniform badges. 30 years later "Great idea, lets specialise!!!!!" So we get our specialisations back (we never actually lost them) and sew badges with the letters back on that they took away thirty years ago. It cost a FORTUNE and lost tech expertise/had to work to get it back. Total fiasco.
5. Bonuses that (if they don't penalise, see above) alienate/INCREASE shortages. They give bonuses to a select group. But it is normally a short term fix, because they "have a new brilliant recruiting scheme" and "just need a stop gap." The sailors they alienate leave, and after the "stop gap" worse than ever. We are always told that "some leaving is part of the plan, as the new rec scheme will have SO MANY, there will be a surplus....." So how come in my 40 years, there was NEVER EVER a surplus of critical sea going branch people? Because it was bullshit.
Example?? Latest bonus they announced on tv. Selective. Only a quarter of Navy gets it. That alienates 3/4 of the Navy. It is costing taxpayers 170 billion for Navy alone, and if all ADF, will be half a billion. And those in think it targets the wrong people. Again, no one was asked, govt just announced it.
It is very sad and tragic for those of us who love it/lived and breathed it.
Then you get the govt phrase "no one could have foreseen" when yet another folly doesn't work. That means "people at the coal face told us the obvious/we ignored them COMPLETELY, as we knew better."
So many will say "So why did you stay?" Because I loved what I did. LOVED it. While the govt do their best to frustrate, it is the best job I could imagine. I only left because I reached retiring age/my branch at my rank couldn't serve at sea. I joined at 15 (could then, not now) and left at 55. And I would do it again.
But "loving it" often isn't enough. Treat people badly enough, they will leave.
I am not bagging Navy. Or any of the three services. Our ADF is amongst the best in the world, and have (and always will) excel at what they do. And the public are thankful they have/do/always will.
How do the govt get away with it? It is so ludicrious, no one believes it. Ask any sailor/ADF. If you say anything to anyone other than fellow ADF (so like to family/civvy friends etc) and get "he must be disgruntled/must have it wrong" and "I am sure they know what they are doing/know more than him/have a plan" etc etc. People WANT to believe it is well managed.
Don't get me wrong. We live in the best country in the world, and we are very well off. The govt does a great job with so many services. That makes it so bizarre they can be so clueless/illogical with defence personnel and conditions.
ALL the govt has to do is give serving personnel benefits to offset/compensate for the huge salaries FIFO/Mining provides. That makes sense. But it HAS to be things mining etc CANNOT give, otherwise it is NO substitute. The govt is the ONLY ones who can say "we know mining pays...... but we can give benefit/tax consideration......." Make their benefits EXEMPT from FBT or other penalties. It is THAT SIMPLE.
But they won't. Ever.
Like I said. In my 40 years in, critical branches were constantly short/always at sea. I didn't mind, I loved being at sea. But families can't cope, they need rotation.
The govt just doesn't get it. They never will, because they don't listen to anyone who "does it." Canberra is another planet.
So they will spend up to half a billion on these bonuses, and within 5 years, there will be the same shortages of people.
(Check back here in 5 years and see. :-) )
Like I said, it's a rant. But every part is TRUE; and this is the tip of the ADF personnel iceberg.
I just get very frustrated when I see another "golden turd" from Canberra, and our great ADF people have to then "get on with making the unworkable work."
They deserve far better. Like Canberra to listen/interact, not dictate the ludicrous.
th-cam.com/video/sgspkxfkS4k/w-d-xo.html
Another gem...................
Why hang around in the Defence force when there is no Incentive to stay in. The superannuation package is crap. Work you arse off for 20 years, walk away with nothing and still have to find a full time job at the bottom of the feeding pool at 40 years of age. Even though you highly qualified you are at the bottom of the heap. OR you get qualified quickly in Defence, get out ASAP, start at the bottom and end up the Boss. MY era of soldier hang around for DFRB 20 Year retirement. Bring back DFRDB Superannuation 20 years get a small payout 100K or more and a pension for life. Work part time to top up to a good wage or go full time starting at the bottom and still be getting paid like the boss because of your pension topping up your wage. SIMPLE
I have MSBS super and it is trash. They should have kept the pension. The new ADF Super is even worse. As time goes on they chip away at the benefits and make them worse in cost cutting tactics.
At 14 years if I leave now I get nothing. The old scheme I would have had a 75% pension once I hit my 15 years this November for the rest of my life. Correct me if I am wrong.
The way the army guy moved his head and used his face seemed more corporate than military.
Thats what they become at that rank, corporate puppets and politicians that are so far removed to the actual needs and desires of the soldiers that to them a Brigade + of pers is nothing more than a stepping stone to their career.
There's a difference?
if they can't recruit soldiers into the logistics branch, why don't they propose contracting the private sector to fill in some of those logistucs roles? I mean the CIA hv contracted part of its analysis work to private intelligence firms
Funny i signed for logistcs in the army reserve i was knocked back on the test day, even with a cert 2 in Warehousing & Distribution and L-F Forklift Licence.
They are short because they are too picky, its by design. Like corporations in Australia they claim no skills in Australia. They cry fowl to the media in with their pr all because of their self inflicted high bench mark.😅
I loved this show, so good
In the whole of the west this is happening. It doesn't help that the services themselves tend to support causes that are completely against people that typically would join the military, logistically or otherwise. It is a fault in leadership being too political as well as politicians being too...politically involved.
If I had my time again I wold have been a farmer.
I think the suicide rate is higher among farmers in Australian than being a vet is.
It's backwards. Deployments drive recruitment way up. Also, deployment pay is better than mining pay.
It helps that deployment pay is tax free due to being outside Australian borders....
Comedy aside, I reckon the Govt should employ retired people into the forces. Not as soldiers , but cooks mechanics clerks all the logistical stuff so the soldiers can do their stuff. Of coarse they would have to make it "Very Tax advantageous"
Good luck doing the BFA every 6 months for people that old.
Both Utopia and hollow men were (and are since utopia still going) GENIUS
I'm a huge advocate of anti defence, saved quite a few already! Proudest thing about being ex defence is telling people what it's really like
Yup. The commercials and DFR don't talk much about field exercises, no showers for weeks on end, digging a whole and taking a shit in it, working 24 hours and 7 days a week for weeks on end for an extra $109 a day, sleeping in the rain on the hard ground, doing 24 hour guard duties and having to drive vehicles on 2 hours or less sleep, doing double the workload as another soldier because you have driving qualifications but getting no extra money. Dealing with power tripping leadership whom in barracks do constant room inspections and other dumb shit just to pass time and try and make life hard for the diggers. Finding any excuse in the book to worsen work/life balance for the digs. Etc.
"You're more likely to get shot in Kalgoorlie." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don't know about Aus but NZ used various departments to train tradesmen and used the 9000 hour aprenticeship to get value for the investment.
Here’s where you start seeing camouflage on frank green drink bottles
They all fight for money but hell awaits.
Ozzie version of Yes! Minister. Very funny
Don’t forget the Australian special forces who treat the Geneva and Hague conventions like to do lists
The anti interrogation techniques are a real eye opener, believe me.
In the Real World (1988) the Australian Army offered Me the opportunity to become a Colonel in the Royal Australian Corps of Military Police, but My Acute Anxiety Social Phobia Disorder, which they were willing to overlook got in My way and prevented Me from accepting.
My specialty at the time was Army Officer Career Development.
Absolute Bummer.
I'm one of the few that suffers from PTSD as i failed to get into the Army.
I know someone who was interested in joining but got rejected because he had a knee injury from years ago that he had recovered from.
How exactly are ya gonna hope to fix this ?
pay competition with the private sector ?
no,
A mechanic making $100k in Kal? Double that!
Well maybe if AGSVA didn't fuck around people trying to join they would have more members
I served, got out as a private, within 6 years I was making more than. Brigadier, within 10 years I was making more than a Lt. Gen. After that I was off their pay scale. My best mate stayed in, went through the ranks, was even made an Officer, then he “stalled” in promotion, after qualifying 7th in his Staff College class. It turned out that of the others in his career stream, they had either died or been discharged, they literally had no-one to replace him, not even someone in the 10 year long pipeline to become qualified and experienced. What do you do to “man manage” an irreplaceable member? You ignore them, deny them promotion, deny them further experience and deny them any explanation, all while the member is already qualified to retire on full pension and his market value is 5 times higher than it is paid in the military and that is the Public Service rate, in civilian employment it’s 10 times higher! Guess what happened?
I like how the subtle point of this is, "Why does Australia need an Army? if shit hits the fan the Yanks will bail us out!"
On a side note, logistics is the most important party of any army.
“I wouldn’t call it a crisis. No? No we we’ve been ordered not to.” Isn’t comedy, it’s how government works these days.
On a serious note, who would wanna become a soldier..... first you need proper commanders preferably with one leg missing that gives them street cred.... not these gas bags from Canberra.
"logistical roles" - truth 😂
I had to stop watching this show and utopia. They are supposed to be comedy shows, but it gave me chest pains when i realised how accurate they are.
What we don’t need is so many over paid underworked Generals and officers
knowing australia they will just get some unskilled nobodies in on working visas, rather then properly educating and supporting locals to step into these roles
Why is a junior sailor sitting in a conference room with officers? Lol
The lack of conflict tends to cock everything up.
All these officers just to tell troops to go do stock takes and look busy