My Nephew brought a Sinnis 125 even though I said it would have been better to buy a decent used Japanese bike but he wanted a brand new bike. Honestly the worst ownership and dealer experience I’ve ever know in 40 years of motorcycling. Looking at the rust and wear on the bike with poor paint and fit and finish its not worth it, you could get a used KTM / Himalayan for less. The fact that Sinnis sent you a shed of a bike says it all about their approach to customer service.
Where are you getting bad experiences with the Sinnis? Ive not had a bad experience with mine other than that they didn’t have a big top box available so I’m using the standard one.
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"... I'm apprehensive as more often than not, whatever you save from low initial cost you pay in the end. I like to be open-minded towards new companies, but there's a reason you pay a bit more for a Yamaha or Honda -- so much nicer to own long-term. Cheers and safe riding!
That's pretty clever..almost 🦊 like cleverness 🤔. seriously though 100% agree,bought a h!ghsense tv once to save money,fell apart like a cheap eh Chinese motorcycle 😬
I'd find the extra £2k for a 2022 CB500X and enjoy the exponentially better build quality, finish, reliability and residuals. I'm mindful of the old truism that you cannot polish a turd.
Honda Suzuki ,Yamaha ,BMW ,Harley & others all have parts or full machines built in China .The bike your riding will more than likely have a least one or two Chinese components on it ,unless it’s a couple of decades old .
For the good of the world I think we should try to avoid buying new Chinese products. Value for money at the point of sale is one thing, but longer term sustainability is another. There's plenty of good used bikes out there of sufficient quality to offer similar value.
Most modern bikes even the so called big names have either some parts sourced & even whole machines built in China .They have all the modern technology & machines to produce to any standards & price point the costumer requires .
Nice idea. However, if you only bought items without Chinese content you'd be living in a house with no dishwasher, no washing machine, no TV, no radio, no broadband, you wouldn't have a computer or a car or any brand of motorcycle and you'd be commuting on a horse. It's unavoidable and completely self inflicted. The warning signs were plain as day in the 1970's and 80's
*Sucks air through teeth*… when you showed the depths of corrosion and then the 70 reg plate….I dare say a soluble aspirin would last longer in the rain. If Sinnis are sending out bikes in that condition, I would question the quality of support you will get for your money.
I had a Sinnis 125, it was good looking, went well, rode nice and my local dealer was good. Being my first bike, and first new vehicle I've ever owned, It was dry stored and regularly treated with acf 50 I really looked after that bike and loved having it. Less than a year in (less than 2.5k miles) and rust started on the exhaust hangers and rear swingarm, the bike was in warranty and I contacted Sinnis for help, they could not have cared less and after an initial fob off just stopped replying. I sold the bike and it gave me the shove I needed to go do my full license, so some good came of it, but I wouldn't touch a Sinnis again.
The riding school I learnt at used the cb500x as instructor bikes. One guy put 47,000 miles on his over 3 years. All you need to do to that bike to make it look brand new is give it a good wash. Fantastic bikes with a solid engine. Definitely a better bet then Sinnis.
Cb500x great bike and great starter bike, did look at ktm at dealer but it broke down twice on the test ride so I walk away and if the Royal Enfield himalayan become a 650 then that bike I'll get next
benelli trk502x is another good option...had mine 3 weeks and its amazing what quality you get for the money...the cb500x is made in Thailand so no better then the benelli
🙂 Your comment about the Himalayan....Royal Enfield bikes were used to ride tours in the Himilayan mountains...Ordinary street bikes going into some really tough areas..There are videos of this. The Himalayan was built from experience in the mountains. I watched one video with 350 street bikes and hymalayans.....A test forvthe new bike..I'm an old phart and plan on getting a Himilayan....The design fits my body style.....OLD.
I think your ability to make a video about a bike like this worth watching is a credit to your channel Andy. Well done. A long term review might have great comedy value but I think you might struggle with the 5 things to love 😂
Yeah, nah. After giving one a go (Lifan) my experience is they just don’t have the longevity or quality of the mainstream brands. They’re cheap for a reason folks.
As much as I admire the fact that Suzuki's engineering from 30 years ago stands the test of time, with new engines still being badly manufactured under license or just copied, this doesn't look like a good deal at all. At 2000 pounds you might consider an undepowered bike with cheap parts, but not 1000 pounds away from an indian made BMW or KTM, and the same price as a Royal Entfield bike, at least the Hymalayan has some personality. This thing is a loose aproximation of an f650 GS, that's not as well made, and I bet you could get a decent used f650 for the money. Sinnis should probably stick to 125cc bikes without 7inch displays, at least those come out cheap and cheerful.
I have owned several Suzuki’s besides Honda’s & other makes during my 50 or so years biking .I have never had any Suzuki or Honda no matter where manufactured break down on me ,only the odd puncture in tyre .
I can’t bear the dirty brown headers. Unfortunately a fair few Triumphs seem to do this too, due to the metal composition. Whereas I can ride my CB500X in all weathers and the headers stay silver from one month to the next. I clean them up once a year with Autosol to remove the slight copper coloured tarnish which is a very thin layer and quick to remove. Thanks for reviewing, hopefully a warning to anyone looking to part with hard earned funds.
Thanks fir sharing your experience on a brand-new bike. There may come a day when Chinese bikes can compete in terms of fit, finish, and reliability. But that day is many, many years away.
Decent review as ever but I would literally never consider buying it rightly or wrongly. Generally you get what you pay for. I would always go for a recognised brand but I appreciate you giving them a fair crack & doing something a bit different.
New bike but like what you said, doubt it can last. I like to see more on the TFT screen please. 😊 Agreed that RE would be better which is almost the same price. I think.
The state of it after 800 miles, damage aside, is the reason Chinese bikes are labelled as crap. I know it is cheap but money would better spent on used bike of a decent brand. My GS 650 is 2007 with 20,000 miles and in a million times better nick than that. Only chinese bike i like is the Benelli TRK 502, love the look of it. Spare parts will be a problem i guess, major brand dealers in most towns, Sinnis unlikely. Dont think you will see many of these in 5 years time.
Thanks Mr Flyer. I have been following the Sinnis brand since their stylish and very lively 125 came out. This one definitely looks quite good value, but like yourself I find the wear and tear factor a little alarming, I guess time will tell. :>)
The Himalayan has good aftermarket support for suspension etc... Someone could make a SS exhaust, but suspension tuning would be a deal breaker. Sino-Japanese motor probably okay. Maybe good for drag and drop ADV.
Looks like single skin mild steel exhausts, hence the rust. I wouldn’t buy one. I’m not adventurous lol 😆 Thanks for another great review Andy. Very much appreciated.
There is only one choice in this sector/ price and it's the Himalayan, which has been well and truly tested by Noraly. Always enjoy your tours, have you got any planned for the future?
That bike was registered on November 3rd 2020 and those pipes are goosed in under a year and 800 miles 🤷♂️ Very diplomatic and you do give these Chinese bikes a chance. I also get what you are saying about a cheap n cheerful adventure bike... but.... after seeing this, I'd give it a miss big time. Major own goal by Sinnis giving you that bike to review. They look like very mild steel pipes and after only about 3 1/2 months of a British winter they're finished. Ooooooooooft. Good review. Glad you didn't miss them! 👍
Hi Appreciate your honesty on the longevity prospects of this bike, on another note do you have any tips on doing the dreaded 'U' turn maybe even a short demo ? I'm struggling with it for my mod 1
Took me 4 attempts to get the U-Turn right on my Mod 1! Lots and lots of practise was needed. The great thing is that now I've passed I never need to do one again - just look for a roundabout or use a side turning to make the road wider for the turn!
Most important things for a good U-turn: Ride the rear brake (let it drag), keep the revs up while feathering the clutch, counter-balance (lean the bike into it while you're leaned outwards), and most important is turn your head and look well into the corner in the direction you want to end up (don't look at the ground). If you do all this, you'll have tight, stable U-turns! Takes lots of practice though to build confidence. Good luck!
Benelli TRK can be bought for a little more (yes another Chinese / Italian import). Although I have no experience of this bike, I did own a Leoncino for a couple of years which did perform very well for a 500cc and I had no issues with quality! Worth a look if you're in the market for a budget adventure bike?
Mentioning the motorcycle license class is a nice touch. It's something I don't think about as an American. We take one written test, one riding test and we're done; licensed to ride anything with two wheels. A drivers license is all that's required for a scooter under 50cc and with an automatic transmission. I still haven't decided which system is better but I lean towards motorcycle culture as the more important component for safety.
As always a good honest review. I think this bike would be good for a young rider short on change . Maybe? I would opt for a used bike from an established brand. At 800 miles that is a statement as to what you are getting. That’s pretty crusty for those miles.
I spotted several BMW GS stylised parts there. The screen, the little wid deflectors at the side of the screen and the headlight. I think the Chinese must have a 3-D photo copier 😜. The quality doesn’t seem great but for that kind of money what do you expect?. But for me, I could never get over the fact that I would have to tell people that I rode a “sinister rain” and that it travelled along the road on two dim sum. I’ll get my chopsticks
Cannot recall the name of the bike sold in California. The imported were 250 cc. The business worked with the factory and were able to improvebthe " bike "...There was 400cc. Haven't heard anything about that bike. There were videos, on YOU TUBE of the Chinese versions.
I had a colleague who had one of these chinese bikes ( not this particular model however) and when he returned to it at the end of the day to ride home, it was more rusty then when he'd parked it up in the morning.
At that price and the fittings, lasting 3 years of bashing without falling apart should count as a good deal. Should cruise at 100-120 kph and that should do it.
RE: Rust, I've just looked at the manual for this bike, I quote: "For oxygen colouring on lines of tube. It may be possible to walk away from damage when submerged in water by holding firmly with strength to the engine casing." That is the solution.
Quite a few people have mentioned the Benelli trk502 and 502x. I saw one in Greece this year and was impressed. How about trying to get one on test Mr Flyer?
@@TheMissendenFlyer I can understand that. The dealership network is quite spread out. The nearest to me was Welwyn Garden City (from memory) or South London! To live on the outskirts of our Capital city and have to look at that sort of travelling to a dealership is testimony to that.
Hi Andy I’ve been looking at the Royal Enfield Himalaya that you reviewed last 3 years ago, that bike appears to be a better bet which does your vote go go to?
Basically any press bike, I have seen so far is usually in better condition than that and this was clearly abused. Would it put me off buying one for the money ? probably not- its a bike that needs a lot of TLC and maintenance...it's not gonna be in the league of the Himlayan or Tiger...again reflected in the price..excellent review as always mate...not too negative....LOL
It could be marketed at the younger generation who will probably take off road and give it a hard time for a couple of years then chuck it away for something newer/better. But bit of heat resistant black paint on those headers , the crash bars did what they are supposed to do , the cheap switchgear may well last longer than bmw s premium stuff which is known for breaking down.... I'd like to see a long term review on one of these, maybe teapot likes a challenge ?...... actually teapot and his 20stone may have ridden this bike off road from brand new, so ....😳
glad i chose the 2021 benelli TRK502X over this...for 5k i got a ex demo with 150 miles on it but the build quality looks miles better than the sinnis...ive done 600 miles in 2 weeks and it still looks brand new
Sinnis tell me they're no longer pursuing this model anymore which is a pity...such a short life? So we're left with the 125 Terrain only.. I know there's a number of new 380's available in some dealers but long term parts availability I guess will be an issue.. Cracking review Andy as always.
@@TheMissendenFlyerThey never gave a reason and to be fair I never asked.. I questioned as to why they don't show the Terrain 380 on their site? As i was seriously considering buying one.. A Sean from their Commerce service team mailed me a reply to say it's not a bike they're pursuing anymore.. Pity really.. It showed real promise.. May well be typical of some Chinese makers discontinuing certain models as they do..
This is primarily the issue, on paper, yes it may be reliable, it may be cheap, it may seem like it’s got good levels of equipment but you look for the full story… main brands hold their value and don’t tank like Chinese bikes do, quality is generally completely different, power wise they’re generally always better when comparing like for like. I’ve always been of the belief that they have their purpose but as a competitor to the more expensive stuff it’s not the same
Yes well.......i always thought these Chinese bikes were excellent value for money, but your open and honest review has changed that somewhat, and i would be having palpitations if the exhaust on my bike rusted like that!
It's a bit like the LED torches that i used to sell. We got through a lot more of the Chinese ones than the American/European ones but that was because of all the exchanges and refunds we had to give. That being said, Chinese bikes are better than they were 8+ years ago. Could not have been much worse!
Feel like sinnis has dropped the ball here! Can't believe the state of the bike but at the same time - I'm kind of glad to see the state of the bike after 800 miles
Unfortunately a close look reveals clear examples of poor quality. The engine coating, pipes, rear hugger attachment, no-brand brakes, plastics, weird pannier mounting and the fit and finish is really poor. If it’s really 800 miles then resale value will drop like a stone. Save your money and get a properly built and finished bike.
Well said, as an entry level, you won't go far wrong with a Honda NC750X, The looks of an adventure and built to last. You can pick up a good used one for around 5k.
I don’t care where the bike is made, this is not bashing Chinese manufacturing. But even at the cheap price, This just isn’t good enough quality. It’s a shame as inexpensive decent quality bikes will do much to get more people riding.
ive ridden the same bike ..its not too bad at all ..you get a real bang for your buck .. and ..yeah the exhaust is horrible I'll give you that lol .. saying that is not too much of a problem to sort out
Fitting of the Top Box very poor idea if your off to Santander for a touring holiday. You arrive at the ferry and realise you have to empty the box to take it off to take it to your cabin and the same again when you go back to your bike. It could be a half decent cheap bike, but the term spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar comes to mind with the general finish.
Weird we bought my son the 2021 new 125cc and it's a cracking little bike. We had good dealer service from Gillingham and he has done 600 miles all weather's now and still looks brand new no exhaust colouring or wear that you see on the 380 ??? I think Sinnis dropped the ball there to be fair. I have a Himmy and so far they seem compared finish wise.
Great copy and yes the process of steel manufacture in China can be termed as economic but it will sell due to its cost and most who buy it will simply replace it when necessary😜
If I could grab one for literally half price or better it would be a nice disposable winter ride. As it stands I’d be better off mounting a set of 80/20 rubber on my SV
Good looks and specifications don’t say that much. Build quality shows itself only after a few years after the bike has seen all kinds of weather. I mean rust, electronics, suspension, drive chain etc. Will the engine keep up its horsepower and torque? Only if you can find bikes of five or more years old that are still in good condition, I would consider buying a new one. The bike is still too young to get that proven. But since Japanese bikes have proven themselves indestructible, I probably would buy a second hand Japanese bike of about the same bike.
Well...it is all nice and dandy that you buy such a bike. But what if you have a crappy dealer/shop? I experienced that first-hand, when I bought my Benelli. It rode pretty well, looked great. But from the getgo, I had some quarrels with that bike. The display/sensors did not work properly. Yes, it got repaired. But even as I told the lady at the shop that the fuel indicator did not work, and she wrote it down, it was not repaired with the non-working tacho and km counter. I had to put it in a second time. Also, I told them, if they did it properly, they had the chance of selling not one, but three bikes (my husband was interested in their TRK, and my daughter got their 125cc license last month). The shop really screwed it up. After my husband's Yamaha XT decided to not work properly any more after 20 years, he chose the Tenere as his next ride. Having a 48 PS bike, I talked to the Yamaha dealer about taking in my Benelli for a Tracer 700 to match the Tenere. They took it for a nice sum, and now I have a great dealer and a great bike. I started to really scratch my head when I took apart the Benelli seat (I have re-holstered bikes several times, so I know what I am doing). The shell broke on me when I was removing the clamps holding the cover - it almost felt like a joghurt bucket. I never had that kind of hassle with my former XT seat shell...that was bombproof. Well, I patched it up, and it held the year I rode the Benelli. But back in my head, I thought "if that part is that crappy, what else might lie beneath the surface? How long will it hold up - the 5 years I am estimating? Or even less?" (I am a rider who wants a bike that basically fulfills all my needs, and I do not like to exchange them very often). So I was more than happy to ditch the Benelli for the Yamaha. This might be an exception, but that was my short experience with a Chinese bike at a suspiciously low price - but it looked fantastic.
You were very subtle with your review, this machine looks and rides well for a short while and then will dissolve very quickly in this countries weather. Very shabby finish on the machine.
Interesting review although that build quality would definitely worry me. Can't help wondering whether it would be a purchase that might be regretted after 12 months or so, when it started to look a bit tatty. The BMW 310GS would probably be what I'd look at if I was in the market for something like this. A bit more money but much better build quality and residuals.
Shocked Sinnis would even give you a press bike in that condition wow 😯 rusty even the bolts in the bar ends! Some how wonder if the materials are made for warmer climates as it looks like it won’t last another winter.
Mine rusting on the chassis only after 2years,then told me it will need work for MOT as the paint on the chassis under the seat is not covered under warranty,then there’s insurance, most insurance companies wouldn’t touch it,and the ones that did wanted a premium
Oh dear sorry to hear that - given the state of this press bike I’m not surprised the bike hasn’t held up well, such a shame because they have a lot going for them…
I think the Sinnis Terrain 125 is a better buy than this larger model .The brown corroded mild steel down pipes are easily sorted by coating them with some Zeebo grate polish .You put it on like shoe polish ,& when it wears off in heavy rain ,it takes 5 mins to re- apply .It’s an old Brit scrambler bikers tip for un chromed exhaust pipes .Failing that I dare say an aftermarket stainless or carbon system will be available as the bike is sold around the world under the Zongshen Cyclone name .Sinnis are just importers who visit Chinese factory’s & order their bikes with the Sinnis name & model name on them .They don’t build any bikes as far as I know although they might get to have a little input if they order enough .The bike looks unfinished & needs a bash plate ,& the panniers junking & maybe better gearing ratios & lower price .Given the choice in the 400 range I would pick the Himalayan all day long ,Itchy Boots has proven its capabilities in tough conditions in Asia .Europe & the Andes in South America’s .Good straight talking honest review Mr Flyer 👍
If I was in the market for an ‘adventure’ bike, the TRK 502x would one I would look at. But I’m not, so it’s a moot point. Owning an Italian sports bike is always an adventure anyway……..!
Bought a brand new Kawasaki Z250 in the 80s and the nose of the seat had worn through the tank paint before the 500mile service. Also seems the Himalayan tank is so thin the top dents easily. You get what you pay for I guess.
The way in which the more established manufacturers charge £1000-£1600 for metal panniers can only be described as shameful racketeering. These Sinnis boxes are possibly not the best on the market however they do represent great value. Soft panniers from companies like LOMO Watersports is the way forward in my opinion and I'd be interested in your review of them. Thanks again TMF, you made that 'tired' new bike sound pretty good. Cheers.
For the same price as a KTM 390 Adv, you can get a BMW G310GS, which would get my money if I was buying an A2 Adventure bike. Made in India, but with build quality to keep the German designers happy. Not quite as powerful as the 390, but a lot less Orange.
Hi TMF. Though I realise that 90per cent of Adventure Bikes never go off-road, it would be good if your reports included an off road section. A few gravel lanes, steep hills, some rocky tracks etc would give us an idea of it’s off road capabilities. Possibly too much to ask in your vicinity? Afraid I wouldn’t have one even as a gift. Shame about the “shed”. It would be worth £1000 in a years time. JB.
I'm afraid my arthritic shoulders have put pay to any off-roading I may have done.....and you're right, not much opportunity around my way to do any decent off-road stuff (hence why I sold my - excellent - Honda CRF250L)....
The gearing in this bike is horrendous, and the side stand is way too short. If you are interested in these kind of bikes try to get your hands on a Benelli TRK 502 X. I commute from Northampton to London every week on mine and it’s incredible.
I saw a BMW 1100 on the A1 in similar condition recently. Uh, hang on that was 20+ years old.... The front discs on that Sinnis look destroyed already. Shame.
I agree there Andy but I’m not sure all reviewers are as, let’s say careful with what many would consider a cheap bike. I’m not sure I’d keep spending money on a bike only to have it come back in a hell of a condition to only have to fix everything again! It’s a really difficult one as I’m sure if it was someone’s personal bike it would be a lot better taken care of.
@@TheMissendenFlyer Hi Andy of course I can see that but I was just trying to say that we don’t know how this bike has been treated or if it’s come from a dealer or the last reviewer like that?. I 100% agree it shouldn’t be in this condition but maybe we shouldn’t be so hard until we know why it’s in this condition and why Sinnis let it go out like this?
For £1000 extra the KTM is the obvious choice. Always open minded about new companies but it is a shame about the build quality however it is something we have come to expect from cheap Chinese manufacturers.
My Nephew brought a Sinnis 125 even though I said it would have been better to buy a decent used Japanese bike but he wanted a brand new bike. Honestly the worst ownership and dealer experience I’ve ever know in 40 years of motorcycling. Looking at the rust and wear on the bike with poor paint and fit and finish its not worth it, you could get a used KTM / Himalayan for less. The fact that Sinnis sent you a shed of a bike says it all about their approach to customer service.
Very strange move - not a great advert for the finish of the bike, it's a shame as it's actually pretty good to ride....
Where are you getting bad experiences with the Sinnis? Ive not had a bad experience with mine other than that they didn’t have a big top box available so I’m using the standard one.
Awful bikes. Speaking from experience as a person who had a inexpensive Chinese bike when I first started riding.
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"... I'm apprehensive as more often than not, whatever you save from low initial cost you pay in the end. I like to be open-minded towards new companies, but there's a reason you pay a bit more for a Yamaha or Honda -- so much nicer to own long-term. Cheers and safe riding!
That's pretty clever..almost 🦊 like cleverness 🤔. seriously though 100% agree,bought a h!ghsense tv once to save money,fell apart like a cheap eh Chinese motorcycle 😬
Or pay the same price and get a Himalayan with a three year warranty? I know what I would do.
Very well said 👏
I'd find the extra £2k for a 2022 CB500X and enjoy the exponentially better build quality, finish, reliability and residuals. I'm mindful of the old truism that you cannot polish a turd.
Honda Suzuki ,Yamaha ,BMW ,Harley & others all have parts or full machines built in China .The bike your riding will more than likely have a least one or two Chinese components on it ,unless it’s a couple of decades old .
For the good of the world I think we should try to avoid buying new Chinese products. Value for money at the point of sale is one thing, but longer term sustainability is another. There's plenty of good used bikes out there of sufficient quality to offer similar value.
Most modern bikes even the so called big names have either some parts sourced & even whole machines built in China .They have all the modern technology & machines to produce to any standards & price point the costumer requires .
Nice idea. However, if you only bought items without Chinese content you'd be living in a house with no dishwasher, no washing machine, no TV, no radio, no broadband, you wouldn't have a computer or a car or any brand of motorcycle and you'd be commuting on a horse. It's unavoidable and completely self inflicted. The warning signs were plain as day in the 1970's and 80's
*Sucks air through teeth*… when you showed the depths of corrosion and then the 70 reg plate….I dare say a soluble aspirin would last longer in the rain.
If Sinnis are sending out bikes in that condition, I would question the quality of support you will get for your money.
I had a Sinnis 125, it was good looking, went well, rode nice and my local dealer was good. Being my first bike, and first new vehicle I've ever owned, It was dry stored and regularly treated with acf 50 I really looked after that bike and loved having it. Less than a year in (less than 2.5k miles) and rust started on the exhaust hangers and rear swingarm, the bike was in warranty and I contacted Sinnis for help, they could not have cared less and after an initial fob off just stopped replying. I sold the bike and it gave me the shove I needed to go do my full license, so some good came of it, but I wouldn't touch a Sinnis again.
Interesting feedback - thanks for that!
Thanks for sharing that with us..
Better off getting a used CB500X. Much better quality
The riding school I learnt at used the cb500x as instructor bikes. One guy put 47,000 miles on his over 3 years. All you need to do to that bike to make it look brand new is give it a good wash. Fantastic bikes with a solid engine. Definitely a better bet then Sinnis.
Cb500x great bike and great starter bike, did look at ktm at dealer but it broke down twice on the test ride so I walk away and if the Royal Enfield himalayan become a 650 then that bike I'll get next
benelli trk502x is another good option...had mine 3 weeks and its amazing what quality you get for the money...the cb500x is made in Thailand so no better then the benelli
@@peter58murray v strom are still made in Japan which is good
🙂 Your comment about the Himalayan....Royal Enfield bikes were used to ride tours in the Himilayan mountains...Ordinary street bikes going into some really tough areas..There are videos of this. The Himalayan was built from experience in the mountains. I watched one video with 350 street bikes and hymalayans.....A test forvthe new bike..I'm an old phart and plan on getting a Himilayan....The design fits my body style.....OLD.
Great and honest review Andy. For a bike with only 800 miles on the clocks, the finish looks absolutely appalling.
I guess it's had a rough life thus far!
@@TheMissendenFlyer I think you are being diplomatic.
I think your ability to make a video about a bike like this worth watching is a credit to your channel Andy. Well done. A long term review might have great comedy value but I think you might struggle with the 5 things to love 😂
Thanks for the kind words Mark - appreciated!
Yeah, nah. After giving one a go (Lifan) my experience is they just don’t have the longevity or quality of the mainstream brands.
They’re cheap for a reason folks.
A very generous review Andy, it's like Sinnis don't want these to sell 🤣
My 21yr old Bandit is in much better nick.
Great review as always.
As much as I admire the fact that Suzuki's engineering from 30 years ago stands the test of time, with new engines still being badly manufactured under license or just copied, this doesn't look like a good deal at all. At 2000 pounds you might consider an undepowered bike with cheap parts, but not 1000 pounds away from an indian made BMW or KTM, and the same price as a Royal Entfield bike, at least the Hymalayan has some personality.
This thing is a loose aproximation of an f650 GS, that's not as well made, and I bet you could get a decent used f650 for the money. Sinnis should probably stick to 125cc bikes without 7inch displays, at least those come out cheap and cheerful.
I have owned several Suzuki’s besides Honda’s & other makes during my 50 or so years biking .I have never had any Suzuki or Honda no matter where manufactured break down on me ,only the odd puncture in tyre .
A really interesting comment; I'm guessing you've ridden or owned a Sinnis?
@@a13bkd62 how is that relevant to my arguments?
Another great review Andy, How about trying the Zontes ZT310T2 and pair them up ?????
I can’t bear the dirty brown headers. Unfortunately a fair few Triumphs seem to do this too, due to the metal composition. Whereas I can ride my CB500X in all weathers and the headers stay silver from one month to the next. I clean them up once a year with Autosol to remove the slight copper coloured tarnish which is a very thin layer and quick to remove. Thanks for reviewing, hopefully a warning to anyone looking to part with hard earned funds.
Looks like an early GS tbh 🤔 another quality review Andy 👍
Thanks 👍
Buy it cheap - Buy it twice
Better off with a pre owned low mileage reliable brand.
Thanks fir sharing your experience on a brand-new bike. There may come a day when Chinese bikes can compete in terms of fit, finish, and reliability. But that day is many, many years away.
...well this one's certainly not a good advert for it is it....
Decent review as ever but I would literally never consider buying it rightly or wrongly. Generally you get what you pay for. I would always go for a recognised brand but I appreciate you giving them a fair crack & doing something a bit different.
New bike but like what you said, doubt it can last.
I like to see more on the TFT screen please. 😊
Agreed that RE would be better which is almost the same price. I think.
Might be cheap to buy up front, but whether it is value or not could be impacted on how it lasts and what you can get for it when you sell.
The state of it after 800 miles, damage aside, is the reason Chinese bikes are labelled as crap. I know it is cheap but money would better spent on used bike of a decent brand. My GS 650 is 2007 with 20,000 miles and in a million times better nick than that. Only chinese bike i like is the Benelli TRK 502, love the look of it. Spare parts will be a problem i guess, major brand dealers in most towns, Sinnis unlikely. Dont think you will see many of these in 5 years time.
Good to know it’s got a 17” front wheel on the back 😀
Oops! You know what I mean..... :0)
Those Chinese!!!
Yeah thats how they make it so cheap ..... 2 front wheels !! 😁
@@budbud2509 Does that mean you have to rotate the tyres as part of maintenance? 🤔
@@budbud2509 sneaky
"At the back its got a 17" front wheel". Huh?
great review!
Well spotted!
Thanks Mr Flyer. I have been following the Sinnis brand since their stylish and very lively 125 came out. This one definitely looks quite good value, but like yourself I find the wear and tear factor a little alarming, I guess time will tell. :>)
Thank you for posting. At the 12:01 mark, does the sensor cable, on the right exhaust, looks frayed or at the very least pinched?
It's bent at an angle but not frayed or pinched as far as I can see....
The Himalayan has good aftermarket support for suspension etc... Someone could make a SS exhaust, but suspension tuning would be a deal breaker. Sino-Japanese motor probably okay. Maybe good for drag and drop ADV.
Looks like single skin mild steel exhausts, hence the rust. I wouldn’t buy one. I’m not adventurous lol 😆 Thanks for another great review Andy. Very much appreciated.
There is only one choice in this sector/ price and it's the Himalayan, which has been well and truly tested by Noraly.
Always enjoy your tours, have you got any planned for the future?
Yep - stay tuned!
Used V Strom or similar any day of the week over this ( admittedly not A2 tho) or CB500x . Wouldn’t trust this not to fall apart gradually
That bike was registered on November 3rd 2020 and those pipes are goosed in under a year and 800 miles 🤷♂️
Very diplomatic and you do give these Chinese bikes a chance. I also get what you are saying about a cheap n cheerful adventure bike... but.... after seeing this, I'd give it a miss big time. Major own goal by Sinnis giving you that bike to review. They look like very mild steel pipes and after only about 3 1/2 months of a British winter they're finished. Ooooooooooft. Good review. Glad you didn't miss them! 👍
Hi Appreciate your honesty on the longevity prospects of this bike, on another note do you have any tips on doing the dreaded 'U' turn maybe even a short demo ? I'm struggling with it for my mod 1
Took me 4 attempts to get the U-Turn right on my Mod 1! Lots and lots of practise was needed. The great thing is that now I've passed I never need to do one again - just look for a roundabout or use a side turning to make the road wider for the turn!
Most important things for a good U-turn: Ride the rear brake (let it drag), keep the revs up while feathering the clutch, counter-balance (lean the bike into it while you're leaned outwards), and most important is turn your head and look well into the corner in the direction you want to end up (don't look at the ground). If you do all this, you'll have tight, stable U-turns! Takes lots of practice though to build confidence. Good luck!
@@Thirsty_Fox Excellent advice - thanks. I really should practise more even now I've passed my test - it's a valuable skill.
Hi Andy, enjoy your videos, but does the sun ever shine where you live? I seemed to have missed your summer.
Well it is a review of the “Sinister Rain” 🤣🤣
Not much Patrick!
The biggest 'adventure' of owning this bike will be figuring how to get home when it breaks down
Benelli TRK can be bought for a little more (yes another Chinese / Italian import). Although I have no experience of this bike, I did own a Leoncino for a couple of years which did perform very well for a 500cc and I had no issues with quality! Worth a look if you're in the market for a budget adventure bike?
I've heard good things about the Benelli's - no personal experience of them to date though....
Mentioning the motorcycle license class is a nice touch. It's something I don't think about as an American. We take one written test, one riding test and we're done; licensed to ride anything with two wheels. A drivers license is all that's required for a scooter under 50cc and with an automatic transmission. I still haven't decided which system is better but I lean towards motorcycle culture as the more important component for safety.
I think our system is better! I think it's crazy a youngster can take a rudimentary test and then jump on a 200hp superbike!
TMF since you're in Asia!! What you think of the Zontes ADV???
800 miles wow.
We only get a Wednesday now? I hope you're not going to pack in the TH-cam lark TMF, I really enjoy your videos.
Wednesday is my regular upload now with the occasional bonus, usually on a Saturday….thanks for the kind words!
As always a good honest review. I think this bike would be good for a young rider short on change . Maybe? I would opt for a used bike from an established brand. At 800 miles that is a statement as to what you are getting. That’s pretty crusty for those miles.
To be honest, I'm rather glad they gave you a shed of a bike. Gives you a glimpse of what an owner would have to put up with if they purchased one.
Well possibly yes! Good point…
I spotted several BMW GS stylised parts there. The screen, the little wid deflectors at the side of the screen and the headlight. I think the Chinese must have a 3-D photo copier 😜. The quality doesn’t seem great but for that kind of money what do you expect?. But for me, I could never get over the fact that I would have to tell people that I rode a “sinister rain” and that it travelled along the road on two dim sum. I’ll get my chopsticks
You could paint the down pipes in eith poly eurathane or in an an anti rust paint
Please ,can you do a review on a benelli trk 502X? I'm curious to know more!
That exhaust system would be lucky to last 2 years in a wet climate. At least the oil filter isn't in a vulnerable position.
Speaking of a cheaper 'Chinese' adv bike; i'd be curious to see what you think about the Benelli TRK502(x) compared to this and the CB500X
I’ve ridden that bike and can confirm it’s awful and poorly built. It’s no comparison with my Honda CB500X.
Cannot recall the name of the bike sold in California. The imported were 250 cc. The business worked with the factory and were able to improvebthe " bike "...There was 400cc. Haven't heard anything about that bike. There were videos, on YOU TUBE of the Chinese versions.
I had a colleague who had one of these chinese bikes ( not this particular model however) and when he returned to it at the end of the day to ride home, it was more rusty then when he'd parked it up in the morning.
Hilarious!
At that price and the fittings, lasting 3 years of bashing without falling apart should count as a good deal. Should cruise at 100-120 kph and that should do it.
Thanks for bringing variety to your reviews Andy.
Not everyone has £12k to spend on a GS, but would like to get I to this market.
Good Review as usual. Obviously built to a price point. Wonder what a 3 year old one would look like and cost..
I’m waiting for my Honda crf300rally with a smile on my face. Doubt it will look as bad this after 5 years and 5 (let’s face it, inevitable) drops!
The CRF is a solid machine….
RE: Rust, I've just looked at the manual for this bike, I quote:
"For oxygen colouring on lines of tube. It may be possible to walk away from damage when submerged in water by holding firmly with strength to the engine casing."
That is the solution.
Quite a few people have mentioned the Benelli trk502 and 502x. I saw one in Greece this year and was impressed. How about trying to get one on test Mr Flyer?
They look good don't they - alas I don't have any contacts into them or dealers near me....
@@TheMissendenFlyer I can understand that. The dealership network is quite spread out. The nearest to me was Welwyn Garden City (from memory) or South London! To live on the outskirts of our Capital city and have to look at that sort of travelling to a dealership is testimony to that.
Hi Andy I’ve been looking at the Royal Enfield Himalaya that you reviewed last 3 years ago, that bike appears to be a better bet which does your vote go go to?
Yes the Himalayan
Good point raised regarding the panniers and their cost in comparison to others, the only high point I’m afraid.
...to be fair, it rides petty well....
Basically any press bike, I have seen so far is usually in better condition than that and this was clearly abused. Would it put me off buying one for the money ? probably not- its a bike that needs a lot of TLC and maintenance...it's not gonna be in the league of the Himlayan or Tiger...again reflected in the price..excellent review as always mate...not too negative....LOL
It could be marketed at the younger generation who will probably take off road and give it a hard time for a couple of years then chuck it away for something newer/better. But bit of heat resistant black paint on those headers , the crash bars did what they are supposed to do , the cheap switchgear may well last longer than bmw s premium stuff which is known for breaking down.... I'd like to see a long term review on one of these, maybe teapot likes a challenge ?...... actually teapot and his 20stone may have ridden this bike off road from brand new, so ....😳
Yes I know he has ridden one of these - he has reviews on his channel....
glad i chose the 2021 benelli TRK502X over this...for 5k i got a ex demo with 150 miles on it but the build quality looks miles better than the sinnis...ive done 600 miles in 2 weeks and it still looks brand new
I’ve done 5k on mine. Used in all weathers. Still looks brand new.
Sorry not my cup of tea, but thanks for the great video and your valued informative opinion! 👌
With the talk of poor paint and all that rust on show it reminds me of the build quality of my 64 plate BMW R1200 GSA
Good review Andy, but why does the word “bargepole” spring to mind? 🤔
Sinnis tell me they're no longer pursuing this model anymore which is a pity...such a short life? So we're left with the 125 Terrain only.. I know there's a number of new 380's available in some dealers but long term parts availability I guess will be an issue.. Cracking review Andy as always.
How interesting - did they say why?
@@TheMissendenFlyerThey never gave a reason and to be fair I never asked.. I questioned as to why they don't show the Terrain 380 on their site? As i was seriously considering buying one.. A Sean from their Commerce service team mailed me a reply to say it's not a bike they're pursuing anymore.. Pity really.. It showed real promise.. May well be typical of some Chinese makers discontinuing certain models as they do..
This is primarily the issue, on paper, yes it may be reliable, it may be cheap, it may seem like it’s got good levels of equipment but you look for the full story… main brands hold their value and don’t tank like Chinese bikes do, quality is generally completely different, power wise they’re generally always better when comparing like for like. I’ve always been of the belief that they have their purpose but as a competitor to the more expensive stuff it’s not the same
In this case, based on this motorcycle, I agree!
Yes well.......i always thought these Chinese bikes were excellent value for money, but your open and honest review has changed that somewhat, and i would be having palpitations if the exhaust on my bike rusted like that!
Not good is it.....
It's a bit like the LED torches that i used to sell. We got through a lot more of the Chinese ones than the American/European ones but that was because of all the exchanges and refunds we had to give.
That being said, Chinese bikes are better than they were 8+ years ago. Could not have been much worse!
Feel like sinnis has dropped the ball here! Can't believe the state of the bike but at the same time - I'm kind of glad to see the state of the bike after 800 miles
Get a year old second hand 390 Adventure with less than 3000 on the clock for the same money, a superior bike in any department you care to mention.
The oil filter and O2 sensors are very exposed and riding on gravel roads would be a real worry
Unfortunately a close look reveals clear examples of poor quality. The engine coating, pipes, rear hugger attachment, no-brand brakes, plastics, weird pannier mounting and the fit and finish is really poor. If it’s really 800 miles then resale value will drop like a stone. Save your money and get a properly built and finished bike.
Well said, as an entry level, you won't go far wrong with a Honda NC750X, The looks of an adventure and built to last. You can pick up a good used one for around 5k.
I don’t care where the bike is made, this is not bashing Chinese manufacturing. But even at the cheap price, This just isn’t good enough quality. It’s a shame as inexpensive decent quality bikes will do much to get more people riding.
My panniers are mounted the same way, no problem.
Have they sorted the gearing out yet? 🤔
ive ridden the same bike ..its not too bad at all ..you get a real bang for your buck .. and ..yeah the exhaust is horrible I'll give you that lol .. saying that is not too much of a problem to sort out
You keep saying "full-size", but I'm not sure that word means what you think it means :) If the engine size starts with a 3...it's not full-sized!
Would like to know what a half sized adventure bike is...
@@andyogston8940 125cc adv unicycle?
@@andyogston8940 then you came to the right video, just watch on!
Fitting of the Top Box very poor idea if your off to Santander for a touring holiday. You arrive at the ferry and realise you have to empty the box to take it off to take it to your cabin and the same again when you go back to your bike. It could be a half decent cheap bike, but the term spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar comes to mind with the general finish.
I’ve never taken the whole box up to the cabin, just taken the bag out, so this arrangement would work for me.
Weird we bought my son the 2021 new 125cc and it's a cracking little bike. We had good dealer service from Gillingham and he has done 600 miles all weather's now and still looks brand new no exhaust colouring or wear that you see on the 380 ??? I think Sinnis dropped the ball there to be fair. I have a Himmy and so far they seem compared finish wise.
Great copy and yes the process of steel manufacture in China can be termed as economic but it will sell due to its cost and most who buy it will simply replace it when necessary😜
If I could grab one for literally half price or better it would be a nice disposable winter ride. As it stands I’d be better off mounting a set of 80/20 rubber on my SV
There's also a Benelli Imperial 400 for around the same money and yes it's also Chinese.
Good looks and specifications don’t say that much.
Build quality shows itself only after a few years after the bike has seen all kinds of weather. I mean rust, electronics, suspension, drive chain etc.
Will the engine keep up its horsepower and torque?
Only if you can find bikes of five or more years old that are still in good condition, I would consider buying a new one. The bike is still too young to get that proven.
But since Japanese bikes have proven themselves indestructible, I probably would buy a second hand Japanese bike of about the same bike.
Well...it is all nice and dandy that you buy such a bike. But what if you have a crappy dealer/shop? I experienced that first-hand, when I bought my Benelli. It rode pretty well, looked great. But from the getgo, I had some quarrels with that bike. The display/sensors did not work properly. Yes, it got repaired. But even as I told the lady at the shop that the fuel indicator did not work, and she wrote it down, it was not repaired with the non-working tacho and km counter. I had to put it in a second time. Also, I told them, if they did it properly, they had the chance of selling not one, but three bikes (my husband was interested in their TRK, and my daughter got their 125cc license last month). The shop really screwed it up. After my husband's Yamaha XT decided to not work properly any more after 20 years, he chose the Tenere as his next ride. Having a 48 PS bike, I talked to the Yamaha dealer about taking in my Benelli for a Tracer 700 to match the Tenere. They took it for a nice sum, and now I have a great dealer and a great bike.
I started to really scratch my head when I took apart the Benelli seat (I have re-holstered bikes several times, so I know what I am doing). The shell broke on me when I was removing the clamps holding the cover - it almost felt like a joghurt bucket. I never had that kind of hassle with my former XT seat shell...that was bombproof. Well, I patched it up, and it held the year I rode the Benelli. But back in my head, I thought "if that part is that crappy, what else might lie beneath the surface? How long will it hold up - the 5 years I am estimating? Or even less?" (I am a rider who wants a bike that basically fulfills all my needs, and I do not like to exchange them very often). So I was more than happy to ditch the Benelli for the Yamaha.
This might be an exception, but that was my short experience with a Chinese bike at a suspiciously low price - but it looked fantastic.
If the big GS and a Triumph Tiger had a kid then here it is. With a face only the Tiger could love.
You were very subtle with your review, this machine looks and rides well for a short while and then will dissolve very quickly in this countries weather. Very shabby finish on the machine.
Agreed.....
Interesting review although that build quality would definitely worry me. Can't help wondering whether it would be a purchase that might be regretted after 12 months or so, when it started to look a bit tatty. The BMW 310GS would probably be what I'd look at if I was in the market for something like this. A bit more money but much better build quality and residuals.
Yes not a great advert for the finish of the bike, it's a shame as it's actually pretty good to ride....
Shocked Sinnis would even give you a press bike in that condition wow 😯 rusty even the bolts in the bar ends! Some how wonder if the materials are made for warmer climates as it looks like it won’t last another winter.
Agreed
Excellent review on a very good product.
Thanks for watching....
A very good product?
At the back it's got a 17" front wheel!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Sold, I'll have one.
Oops - my bad - you know what I mean..... ;0)
Great reviews would to see a white board score at the end over several main categories though. Cheers 🍻 from NZ.
Mine rusting on the chassis only after 2years,then told me it will need work for MOT as the paint on the chassis under the seat is not covered under warranty,then there’s insurance, most insurance companies wouldn’t touch it,and the ones that did wanted a premium
Oh dear sorry to hear that - given the state of this press bike I’m not surprised the bike hasn’t held up well, such a shame because they have a lot going for them…
Ah! It's got a front wheel on the back as well. That's good. 😃
You know what I meant!!!!
I think the Sinnis Terrain 125 is a better buy than this larger model .The brown corroded mild steel down pipes are easily sorted by coating them with some Zeebo grate polish .You put it on like shoe polish ,& when it wears off in heavy rain ,it takes 5 mins to re- apply .It’s an old Brit scrambler bikers tip for un chromed exhaust pipes .Failing that I dare say an aftermarket stainless or carbon system will be available as the bike is sold around the world under the Zongshen Cyclone name .Sinnis are just importers who visit Chinese factory’s & order their bikes with the Sinnis name & model name on them .They don’t build any bikes as far as I know although they might get to have a little input if they order enough .The bike looks unfinished & needs a bash plate ,& the panniers junking & maybe better gearing ratios & lower price .Given the choice in the 400 range I would pick the Himalayan all day long ,Itchy Boots has proven its capabilities in tough conditions in Asia .Europe & the Andes in South America’s .Good straight talking honest review Mr Flyer 👍
Thanks for watching!
At 7.35 you say it has a 17 inch front wheel at the back, does that mean it has a reverse gear .??
Nah, just means I'm a bit of a numpty!
Amazing value.. reminds me of smaller GS 750 maybe. Exhaust could be swapped for a cheap stainless I guess.. I’d def go KTM though
Fair enough!
If I was in the market for an ‘adventure’ bike, the TRK 502x would one I would look at. But I’m not, so it’s a moot point. Owning an Italian sports bike is always an adventure anyway……..!
Bought a brand new Kawasaki Z250 in the 80s and the nose of the seat had worn through the tank paint before the 500mile service. Also seems the Himalayan tank is so thin the top dents easily. You get what you pay for I guess.
Generally that’s true in life isn’t it….
The way in which the more established manufacturers charge £1000-£1600 for metal panniers can only be described as shameful racketeering. These Sinnis boxes are possibly not the best on the market however they do represent great value. Soft panniers from companies like LOMO Watersports is the way forward in my opinion and I'd be interested in your review of them. Thanks again TMF, you made that 'tired' new bike sound pretty good. Cheers.
For the same price as a KTM 390 Adv, you can get a BMW G310GS, which would get my money if I was buying an A2 Adventure bike.
Made in India, but with build quality to keep the German designers happy. Not quite as powerful as the 390, but a lot less Orange.
Hi TMF. Though I realise that 90per cent of Adventure Bikes never go off-road, it would be good if your reports included an off road section. A few gravel lanes, steep hills, some rocky tracks etc would give us an idea of it’s off road capabilities. Possibly too much to ask in your vicinity?
Afraid I wouldn’t have one even as a gift. Shame about the “shed”. It would be worth £1000 in a years time. JB.
I'm afraid my arthritic shoulders have put pay to any off-roading I may have done.....and you're right, not much opportunity around my way to do any decent off-road stuff (hence why I sold my - excellent - Honda CRF250L)....
The gearing in this bike is horrendous, and the side stand is way too short. If you are interested in these kind of bikes try to get your hands on a Benelli TRK 502 X. I commute from Northampton to London every week on mine and it’s incredible.
don't know if anyone else has noticed That's the same bike teapot 1 had in his review 10months ago and he did a bit off roading,
Is it? Well spotted….
I saw a BMW 1100 on the A1 in similar condition recently. Uh, hang on that was 20+ years old.... The front discs on that Sinnis look destroyed already. Shame.
Knowing the exposure it would get on the channel I'm genuinely surprised Sinnis let that bike out of the door.
Not a great advert is it, it's a shame as it's actually pretty good to ride....
I agree there Andy but I’m not sure all reviewers are as, let’s say careful with what many would consider a cheap bike. I’m not sure I’d keep spending money on a bike only to have it come back in a hell of a condition to only have to fix everything again! It’s a really difficult one as I’m sure if it was someone’s personal bike it would be a lot better taken care of.
@@iangriffiths9930 Itchy Boots first Himmy looked better than that after crossing half the world and 36000kms.
Maybe Ian, in my experience press bikes are usually top of the range and in tip top condition (for fairly obvious reasons you'd think!)
@@TheMissendenFlyer Hi Andy of course I can see that but I was just trying to say that we don’t know how this bike has been treated or if it’s come from a dealer or the last reviewer like that?. I 100% agree it shouldn’t be in this condition but maybe we shouldn’t be so hard until we know why it’s in this condition and why Sinnis let it go out like this?
For £1000 extra the KTM is the obvious choice. Always open minded about new companies but it is a shame about the build quality however it is something we have come to expect from cheap Chinese manufacturers.