The problem with field overhauls is generally the A&P or IA for that matter just lacks the experience and then there is the issue of warranty. A few years back I assisted on a field overhaul of a C-85, cases, crank, cam, lifters, rods, mags, accessory gears and a hand full of other stuff was sent out for inspection and or rebuild/repair. While waiting for everything to come back we gathered all the "Paper", Service Manual, Parts Manual, Overhaul Manual, Service Bulletins, Service Letters, AD's..etc. It wasn't difficult, just time consuming on the research side of things.. Personally I think a Field Overhaul might be slightly better, if a part is found to be in specs but on towards the limits a shop will use that part, where the owner of a field overhaul might elect to just replace it, .. just my .02 cents, which is $27.84 is aviation dollars....lol
@@brycebuildsit I agree. I worked for a 135 operation and we just didn't have TIME for these types of jobs. Profit margins were so tight, we needed to get the customer in & out, including the company charter or flight school planes. We didn't have the time to tear down, inspect, mic, send out, re-inspect, then assemble a whole engine. Then the "warranty" was only based on the company. Yes, we would obviously warranty our regular work, but the liability of a whole engine rebuild- if that thing quit, even at the next TBO, the company would have to defend against a lawsuit = not worth it. As you mentioned, the tools necessary to do it all- for the 1 engine per ~5 years field OH, not worth the investment in tools, etc. as well as the tech not being familiar with such a job. We pulled cylinders at least once per month, but not cranks & cams. In 15 years, I don't think I ever pulled a crank and certainly not a cam.
Do you have any idea what the warranty on a $80k motor is? Less than 2 years or about 200-400 hours (depends), so no, the factory is not giving you a very long coverage period. And the anp better have the business sense to be able to cover the rare return.
I am currently an A&P and would like to get some more information on your business. I am in the thought process of starting my own maintenance services and would really just like to ask you a few questions and maybe you give me some advice as well. Absolutely love your channel and will be happy to hear back from you.
Your “buying new” for exchange isn’t technically brand new. Lycoming receives engines in, then tears them down. Inspects all the parts, then throws the parts in giant bins that pass inspection. Then they assemble engines with those parts. You have no idea how many hours are in those parts and how close or far they passed inspection. I’d much rather have a field overhaul that I know the inspection parameters and how close/far they were from failing. And most of all how many hours are on what parts.
I've been out of the game for a long time, but I seem to remember you could buy a "Factory Reman" for x dollars, or you could choose a "Factory NEW" which I believe was at least 2x the cost, but advertised as "everything is new-new". Very few people did that. I wonder though, if you bought a brand new plane- a C172 to a B58, are the engines NEW or just factory reman?
@@stargazer2504 You need to understand the difference between NEW and SERVICEABLE limits. A USED crank can still be called NEW if it is within the 'new' wear limits', so parent is correct, if the case meets new limits, it can be used in a zero time overhaul and still be called new.
@@yeagermcbipper9008 Really? You are stating "A USED crank can be called NEW".... Go and read AC 20-62E and get back to us professionals. 4. Definitions: Paragraph G: "g. New. A product, accessory, part, or material that has no operating time or cycles" NO OPERATING TIME OR CYCLES. What YOU need to understand is... i'm not even gonna argue 🙄🙄🙄
Wait, you never covered IRAN. There is no way IRAN is even close to the cost an overhaul (unless some major components like the crank is bad). As far as 'overhauling' a case, you have dye pen and some micrometers? You can 100% do the exact same thing as one of these 'shops'. The only thing you cannot do is issue an 8313 or zero time a motor. And GA owners do not need an 8313. Its sad that anps have lost the skills required to do an IRAN and chicken out... costing the customer more money and worse, the mx losing all those billable hours.
I didn't mention IRAN because the video is about the cost of overhaul depending on the route you go. Personally, I have done several IRAN'S, and they were flight school aircraft that were not quite at two but needed to keep flying for the revenue.
I would think an engine like an C-85, O-200 or even an O-320 could be rebuilt by a local A&P for a LOT LESS than sending it off because they are such simple engines I changed the N-number on my 1947 Stinson that came from Canada and used the airplane serial number = N2721L after checking the N number database to make sure it had not been used, easy to do Far as I know it's still flying with the new owner
Yes, an O-320 would be much cheaper than the TSIO 360 on this arrow. Last O-320, I overhauled with a brand new crankshaft, and all new cylinders came in at just over 14k for parts before labor. I didn't do a good job of mentioning that but certain engines will be much much cheaper.
The problem with field overhauls is generally the A&P or IA for that matter just lacks the experience and then there is the issue of warranty. A few years back I assisted on a field overhaul of a C-85, cases, crank, cam, lifters, rods, mags, accessory gears and a hand full of other stuff was sent out for inspection and or rebuild/repair. While waiting for everything to come back we gathered all the "Paper", Service Manual, Parts Manual, Overhaul Manual, Service Bulletins, Service Letters, AD's..etc. It wasn't difficult, just time consuming on the research side of things.. Personally I think a Field Overhaul might be slightly better, if a part is found to be in specs but on towards the limits a shop will use that part, where the owner of a field overhaul might elect to just replace it, .. just my .02 cents, which is $27.84 is aviation dollars....lol
I would agree. It's something 99% of A&P's never do after school. The number of tools you will need to buy or make is often overlooked as well.
@@brycebuildsit I agree. I worked for a 135 operation and we just didn't have TIME for these types of jobs. Profit margins were so tight, we needed to get the customer in & out, including the company charter or flight school planes. We didn't have the time to tear down, inspect, mic, send out, re-inspect, then assemble a whole engine. Then the "warranty" was only based on the company. Yes, we would obviously warranty our regular work, but the liability of a whole engine rebuild- if that thing quit, even at the next TBO, the company would have to defend against a lawsuit = not worth it.
As you mentioned, the tools necessary to do it all- for the 1 engine per ~5 years field OH, not worth the investment in tools, etc. as well as the tech not being familiar with such a job. We pulled cylinders at least once per month, but not cranks & cams. In 15 years, I don't think I ever pulled a crank and certainly not a cam.
I think some used engine parts should just be REPLACE WITH NEW, especially if they are small inexpensive parts
Do you have any idea what the warranty on a $80k motor is? Less than 2 years or about 200-400 hours (depends), so no, the factory is not giving you a very long coverage period. And the anp better have the business sense to be able to cover the rare return.
I bought a factory remanufactured engine. Same warranty as new.
Video on changing tail number would be nice
I am currently an A&P and would like to get some more information on your business. I am in the thought process of starting my own maintenance services and would really just like to ask you a few questions and maybe you give me some advice as well. Absolutely love your channel and will be happy to hear back from you.
Send me an email at bryce137ap@gmail.com
Your “buying new” for exchange isn’t technically brand new. Lycoming receives engines in, then tears them down. Inspects all the parts, then throws the parts in giant bins that pass inspection. Then they assemble engines with those parts. You have no idea how many hours are in those parts and how close or far they passed inspection. I’d much rather have a field overhaul that I know the inspection parameters and how close/far they were from failing. And most of all how many hours are on what parts.
I've been out of the game for a long time, but I seem to remember you could buy a "Factory Reman" for x dollars, or you could choose a "Factory NEW" which I believe was at least 2x the cost, but advertised as "everything is new-new". Very few people did that.
I wonder though, if you bought a brand new plane- a C172 to a B58, are the engines NEW or just factory reman?
@@stargazer2504 You need to understand the difference between NEW and SERVICEABLE limits. A USED crank can still be called NEW if it is within the 'new' wear limits', so parent is correct, if the case meets new limits, it can be used in a zero time overhaul and still be called new.
@@yeagermcbipper9008 Really? You are stating "A USED crank can be called NEW"....
Go and read AC 20-62E and get back to us professionals.
4. Definitions: Paragraph G:
"g. New. A product, accessory, part, or material that has no operating time or cycles"
NO OPERATING TIME OR CYCLES.
What YOU need to understand is... i'm not even gonna argue 🙄🙄🙄
Wait, you never covered IRAN. There is no way IRAN is even close to the cost an overhaul (unless some major components like the crank is bad). As far as 'overhauling' a case, you have dye pen and some micrometers? You can 100% do the exact same thing as one of these 'shops'. The only thing you cannot do is issue an 8313 or zero time a motor. And GA owners do not need an 8313. Its sad that anps have lost the skills required to do an IRAN and chicken out... costing the customer more money and worse, the mx losing all those billable hours.
I didn't mention IRAN because the video is about the cost of overhaul depending on the route you go. Personally, I have done several IRAN'S, and they were flight school aircraft that were not quite at two but needed to keep flying for the revenue.
I would think an engine like an C-85, O-200 or even an O-320 could be rebuilt by a local A&P for a LOT LESS than sending it off because they are such simple engines
I changed the N-number on my 1947 Stinson that came from Canada and used the airplane serial number = N2721L after checking the N number database to make sure it had not been used, easy to do
Far as I know it's still flying with the new owner
Yes, an O-320 would be much cheaper than the TSIO 360 on this arrow. Last O-320, I overhauled with a brand new crankshaft, and all new cylinders came in at just over 14k for parts before labor. I didn't do a good job of mentioning that but certain engines will be much much cheaper.
How is the process of changing the registration of a private aircraft?, can you explain the process please ,thank you.