*Isa **48:16* ". . . . from the *beginning* . . . . there am I; and now the Lord God and his Spirit, hath sent me." *1John 5: 7* "For there are *three* that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and *these three are one."*
It is very convenient for trinitarians to use the text for support but the Hebrew word translated in English “and His spirit “ also in the a strict sense translates to “with His spirit “ and this other Bible versions/Translations use and rightly so. I personally have no problem when I read the KJV version which says “and His spirit “ because if I send my son to collect a debt owed to me by a friend, he goes in my name and in my power and part of that power is the words that he will say when he gets there, he fully represents me therefore he goes in my spirit and with my spirit.
There are more than one interpretation to Joh verse 1-2. Here is how it could also be seen as. The text indicates to us that in the beginning there were two Gods:- Joh 1:1-2 - “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” Here we see that the Word was with God, therefore two individual entities, and that the Word was also a God, therefore two Gods. The verse also states four other things namely:- • the ‘Word was with God’ which means that He left God afterwards. • the ‘Word was God’ which means that He has given up His Godly status and was not a God anymore. • It indicates that the ‘Word was in the beginning with God’, before the existence of anything else, and that the Word left God afterwards. • It further indicates that the Word that was God, was the same God in the beginning with God, basically a double affirmation of two individual Godly entities at the beginning, and when this text was written it created the idea that the Word was no longer with God. This is confirmed in verse 14. - “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” We can thus accept that the Word that became flesh was Jesus. It is important to note that the Word was a God which then became human. John indicated here that the glory that they beheld was that of “the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” Jesus must have made quite a unique and exceptional impression on him to make such a statement. Paul indicates here that Jesus is the firstborn of every creature. Col 1:15 - “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.” The Nestle-Aland Greek-English translation quotes “the firstborn of all creation.” which is the more correct translation. Three statements are made here, the first being that Jesus was the firstborn of every creature/all creation, which means that He was the first to see light like a new born baby, which also indicates that He was created by God, His Father. He was thus the first creation of God, before anything else was created such as the angels and cosmos, which included earth, animals and mankind. The second statement here affirms the fact that God is invisible, a Holy Spiritual being. As Jesus was created by God in His image, it would just be logical to accept that initially Jesus would also have been created as a Holy Spirit, a God, and also being invisible. The third statement that Paul made here was of the Jesus that he knew in person. It says here explicitly that Jesus is the Image of God which means that He was created by God as God wanted Him to be on earth, and not specifically like God self, as He is a Holy Spirit and has no shape or form as man. We believe that Paul referred to Jesus’ perfection of image related to His performance, message and actions and not specifically to His fleshly image. Everything that Jesus did, created the image that He was perfect in everything that He did, which then also reflected the image and perfection of God the Father.
The Logic of the Trinity. The philosophical law of non-contradiction informs us that something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense. This is the fundamental law of all rational thought. And the doctrine of the Trinity does not violate it. This can be shown by stating first of all what the Trinity is not. The Trinity is not the belief that God is three persons and only one person at the same time and in the same sense. That would be a contradiction. Rather, it is the belief that there are three persons in one nature . This may be a mystery, but it is not a contradiction.
haha! I just can't contain myself. Assherick, probably unconsciously, prays only to the Father. If the Triune God was truth, why not include the 3 persons in your prayer..I know..If you read the way Christ taught his disciples to pray.. he begins with " Our Father which art in Heaven"..that is the law of prayer which is confirmed by Jesus's own prayer in John 17:3 " this is eternal life that they may know you the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom thou have sent"
I was born into a SDA family and believed in the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit until recently; however, studying the Scriptures with the Spirit of Prophecy and our Pioneers beliefs, I can wholeheartedly say that all those who believe as such are wrong. The Trinity doctrine is a false doctrine which was brought into the church by LeRoy Froom who, I believe, was a Jesuit Catholic priest and joined the SDA church for the sole purpose to deceive and mislead many thus leading them to perdition. Please study them diligently with prayer and find out for yourself that NONE of our Pioneers nor Sister White believed in the Trinity. For example, she refuted Dr Kellog and Brother Chapman who came to believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three Gods in unity, thus God the Holy Spirit being a different person to the Father and to the Son [Jesus Christ.] Here just a few quotes from Sister White and some of our Pioneers on this matter: "Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His Father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself, divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall [although unseen by you] teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ... Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” {Lt119-1895.18} "The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. . . . none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will" (PP, p. 36). "After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living thing upon it. And now God says to his Son, "Let us make man in our image." (ST Jan. 9, 1879; par. 13). "In the beginning the Father and the Son had rested upon the Sabbath after Their work of creation." (DA p.769, par.2). “The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality. Ellen White, Upward Look, page 367 “Christ has given HIS Spirit as a divine power.” - (E.G. White, RH, Nov 19, 1908) “How few realize that Jesus, unseen, is walking by their side!” - (E.G. White, 14MR 125.3) “He [Christ] is an unseen presence in the PERSON of the HOLY SPIRIT,” - (E.G. White, DG 185.2, 1897) “The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God; it is also the Spirit of Christ.” U. Smith, GC Daily Bulletin, Vol. 4, March 1891, pp. 146, 147 “Here we find that the Holy Spirit is both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.” E. J. Waggoner, Christ and His Righteousness, p. 23, 1890 “We learn from this language that when we speak of the Spirit of God we are really speaking of his presence and power.” J. N. Loughborough, Review & Herald, September 13, 1898 “The divine Spirit that the world’s Redeemer promised to send is the presence and power of God.” Signs of the Times, November 23, 1891 “We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ.” E. G. White, Lt66, April 10, 1894 We MUST be very careful in what we believe as the devil is running to and fro on the face of this earth to deceive as many as he can. Therefore, study the Scriptures, the Spirit of Prophecy and the beliefs of our Pioneers for yourselves and let none foul you. We need to do like the Bereans, who went home and studied the Scriptures for themselves to see if it were so!
Scrutiny of Ellen Whites works do not stand up to the assertion that her husbands stance 'softened' or that hers changed in regards to the trinity. Ellen, while she was alive, refused requests for other authors to use quotes from her writings in their own books because she knew that to take excerpts from their settings could throw them out of context completely. I can only imagine her dismay at the Froom conglomeration whose purpose was solely to promote this unholy doctrine which is the cornerstone of the Roman Catholic Church herself. You have to truthfully ask yourself...would this woman author whose works are so prolific, whose written words number in the millions, be totally silent on her radical change of heart from the pioneers stance on the trinity? Come now, let us reason with sanity. Ellen, until her dying day, warned her audience not to depart from the truths the pioneers of the faith had gleaned. She wrote and spoke of her change of heart and mind over every doctrine that she was enlightened on. Not one word was ever written or spoken on her supposed change over the trinity. Ellen clearly tells you over and over she believes Christ is the spirit, because he cannot be in every place at every given time in his bodily form ...he does the work in spirit. Jesus tells us he is the comforter if you truly listen to what he himself is telling you through the word. Paul clearly and out rightly states Our Lord is the spirit. Don't listen to what leaders are teaching you, you are responsible for your own path, and the church leadership is doing precisely what men in power have always done, departed from the true worship of Almighty God. To fool the very elect you have to have a very good deception, a grand lie and that is what the trinity dogma is. If you love truth..you will seek God with every fibre of your being, false teaching will fade in the bold light of truth. I am not saying this way will be the easy one, it's a very narrow path that leads to the narrow gate and few there are who find it. To give up your cherished notions of what the bible is saying is the hardest thing a person can ever do. Listen carefully instead to what Jesus teaches, HEAR his words instead of transposing them for what YOU personally think he is trying to say, His words come straight from His Fathers mouth. They are the words of the almighty God Himself. Commit totally to being a child of God and turn from being a child of this world and give the spirit full rein over your life. The trinity belief is the grand delusion, a doctrine that HAS to be taught as scripture not once mentions a three person "god" it's just a construct of mans vain theology and philosophy which cannot be truth. Look carefully and prayerfully at only the clear statements from the true source that cannot lie and you will begin to see the cleverly crafted fabrication of the trinity unravel like the web of lies it truly is. Use bible hub to help you source the scriptures in their original languages and you will find how insidiously the KJV translators have helped promote the false doctrine. Seek to worship God in spirit and in truth otherwise you are only worshipping false gods and following a very different Jesus other than the true Son of God. Peace.
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*Isa **48:16* ". . . . from the *beginning* . . . . there am I; and now the Lord God and his Spirit, hath sent me."
*1John 5: 7* "For there are *three* that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and *these three are one."*
It is very convenient for trinitarians to use the text for support but the Hebrew word translated in English “and His spirit “ also in the a strict sense translates to “with His spirit “ and this other Bible versions/Translations use and rightly so. I personally have no problem when I read the KJV version which says “and His spirit “ because if I send my son to collect a debt owed to me by a friend, he goes in my name and in my power and part of that power is the words that he will say when he gets there, he fully represents me therefore he goes in my spirit and with my spirit.
There are more than one interpretation to Joh verse 1-2. Here is how it could also be seen as. The text indicates to us that in the beginning there were two Gods:-
Joh 1:1-2 - “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.”
Here we see that the Word was with God, therefore two individual entities, and that the Word was also a God, therefore two Gods. The verse also states four other things namely:-
• the ‘Word was with God’ which means that He left God afterwards.
• the ‘Word was God’ which means that He has given up His Godly status and was not a God anymore.
• It indicates that the ‘Word was in the beginning with God’, before the existence of anything else, and that the Word left God afterwards.
• It further indicates that the Word that was God, was the same God in the beginning with God, basically a double affirmation of two individual Godly entities at the beginning, and when this text was written it created the idea that the Word was no longer with God. This is confirmed in verse 14. - “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
We can thus accept that the Word that became flesh was Jesus. It is important to note that the Word was a God which then became human. John indicated here that the glory that they beheld was that of “the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” Jesus must have made quite a unique and exceptional impression on him to make such a statement.
Paul indicates here that Jesus is the firstborn of every creature.
Col 1:15 - “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.” The Nestle-Aland Greek-English translation quotes “the firstborn of all creation.” which is the more correct translation.
Three statements are made here, the first being that Jesus was the firstborn of every creature/all creation, which means that He was the first to see light like a new born baby, which also indicates that He was created by God, His Father. He was thus the first creation of God, before anything else was created such as the angels and cosmos, which included earth, animals and mankind.
The second statement here affirms the fact that God is invisible, a Holy Spiritual being. As Jesus was created by God in His image, it would just be logical to accept that initially Jesus would also have been created as a Holy Spirit, a God, and also being invisible.
The third statement that Paul made here was of the Jesus that he knew in person. It says here explicitly that Jesus is the Image of God which means that He was created by God as God wanted Him to be on earth, and not specifically like God self, as He is a Holy Spirit and has no shape or form as man. We believe that Paul referred to Jesus’ perfection of image related to His performance, message and actions and not specifically to His fleshly image. Everything that Jesus did, created the image that He was perfect in everything that He did, which then also reflected the image and perfection of God the Father.
Deception is rife in the Adventist church I am sorry to say...and the congregation continue to say amen..
The Logic of the Trinity. The philosophical law of non-contradiction informs us that
something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense. This is the
fundamental law of all rational thought. And the doctrine of the Trinity does not violate it. This
can be shown by stating first of all what the Trinity is not. The Trinity is not the belief that God
is three persons and only one person at the same time and in the same sense. That would be a
contradiction. Rather, it is the belief that there are three persons in one nature . This may be a
mystery, but it is not a contradiction.
haha! I just can't contain myself. Assherick, probably unconsciously, prays only to the Father. If the Triune God was truth, why not include the 3 persons in your prayer..I know..If you read the way Christ taught his disciples to pray.. he begins with " Our Father which art in Heaven"..that is the law of prayer which is confirmed by Jesus's own prayer in John 17:3 " this is eternal life that they may know you the ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom thou have sent"
Which Holy Spirit? God has seven Spirits, according to the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
ElCineHefe ..ha ha ..the spirit of truth, is one in the same
Friend, you must read Isaiah 11:2 to understand these seven spirits.
I was born into a SDA family and believed in the God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit until recently; however, studying the Scriptures with the Spirit of Prophecy and our Pioneers beliefs, I can wholeheartedly say that all those who believe as such are wrong. The Trinity doctrine is a false doctrine which was brought into the church by LeRoy Froom who, I believe, was a Jesuit Catholic priest and joined the SDA church for the sole purpose to deceive and mislead many thus leading them to perdition. Please study them diligently with prayer and find out for yourself that NONE of our Pioneers nor Sister White believed in the Trinity. For example, she refuted Dr Kellog and Brother Chapman who came to believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, three Gods in unity, thus God the Holy Spirit being a different person to the Father and to the Son [Jesus Christ.] Here just a few quotes from Sister White and some of our Pioneers on this matter:
"Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His Father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself, divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall [although unseen by you] teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ... Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” {Lt119-1895.18}
"The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. . . . none but Christ, the Only Begotten of God, could fully enter into His purposes, and to Him it was committed to execute the mighty counsels of His will" (PP, p. 36).
"After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living thing upon it. And now God says to his Son, "Let us make man in our image." (ST Jan. 9, 1879; par. 13).
"In the beginning the Father and the Son had rested upon the Sabbath after Their work of creation." (DA p.769, par.2).
“The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality. Ellen White, Upward Look, page 367
“Christ has given HIS Spirit as a divine power.” - (E.G. White, RH, Nov 19, 1908)
“How few realize that Jesus, unseen, is walking by their side!” - (E.G. White, 14MR 125.3)
“He [Christ] is an unseen presence in the PERSON of the HOLY SPIRIT,” - (E.G. White, DG 185.2, 1897)
“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God; it is also the Spirit of Christ.” U. Smith, GC Daily Bulletin, Vol. 4, March 1891, pp. 146, 147
“Here we find that the Holy Spirit is both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.” E. J. Waggoner, Christ and His Righteousness, p. 23, 1890
“We learn from this language that when we speak of the Spirit of God we are really speaking of his presence and power.” J. N. Loughborough, Review & Herald, September 13, 1898
“The divine Spirit that the world’s Redeemer promised to send is the presence and power of God.” Signs of the Times, November 23, 1891
“We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ.” E. G. White, Lt66, April 10, 1894
We MUST be very careful in what we believe as the devil is running to and fro on the face of this earth to deceive as many as he can. Therefore, study the Scriptures, the Spirit of Prophecy and the beliefs of our Pioneers for yourselves and let none foul you.
We need to do like the Bereans, who went home and studied the Scriptures for themselves to see if it were so!
Scrutiny of Ellen Whites works do not stand up to the assertion that her husbands stance 'softened' or that hers changed in regards to the trinity. Ellen, while she was alive, refused requests for other authors to use quotes from her writings in their own books because she knew that to take excerpts from their settings could throw them out of context completely. I can only imagine her dismay at the Froom conglomeration whose purpose was solely to promote this unholy doctrine which is the cornerstone of the Roman Catholic Church herself. You have to truthfully ask yourself...would this woman author whose works are so prolific, whose written words number in the millions, be totally silent on her radical change of heart from the pioneers stance on the trinity? Come now, let us reason with sanity. Ellen, until her dying day, warned her audience not to depart from the truths the pioneers of the faith had gleaned. She wrote and spoke of her change of heart and mind over every doctrine that she was enlightened on. Not one word was ever written or spoken on her supposed change over the trinity. Ellen clearly tells you over and over she believes Christ is the spirit, because he cannot be in every place at every given time in his bodily form ...he does the work in spirit. Jesus tells us he is the comforter if you truly listen to what he himself is telling you through the word. Paul clearly and out rightly states Our Lord is the spirit. Don't listen to what leaders are teaching you, you are responsible for your own path, and the church leadership is doing precisely what men in power have always done, departed from the true worship of Almighty God. To fool the very elect you have to have a very good deception, a grand lie and that is what the trinity dogma is. If you love truth..you will seek God with every fibre of your being, false teaching will fade in the bold light of truth. I am not saying this way will be the easy one, it's a very narrow path that leads to the narrow gate and few there are who find it. To give up your cherished notions of what the bible is saying is the hardest thing a person can ever do. Listen carefully instead to what Jesus teaches, HEAR his words instead of transposing them for what YOU personally think he is trying to say, His words come straight from His Fathers mouth. They are the words of the almighty God Himself. Commit totally to being a child of God and turn from being a child of this world and give the spirit full rein over your life. The trinity belief is the grand delusion, a doctrine that HAS to be taught as scripture not once mentions a three person "god" it's just a construct of mans vain theology and philosophy which cannot be truth. Look carefully and prayerfully at only the clear statements from the true source that cannot lie and you will begin to see the cleverly crafted fabrication of the trinity unravel like the web of lies it truly is. Use bible hub to help you source the scriptures in their original languages and you will find how insidiously the KJV translators have helped promote the false doctrine. Seek to worship God in spirit and in truth otherwise you are only worshipping false gods and following a very different Jesus other than the true Son of God. Peace.