Tiger's Teeth: How Tiger ended up with the 8.8cm gun.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Repost from the World of Tanks Channel from a while ago, in case you're not following it. This video is from my day job, produced by World of Tanks. If you wish to show support for World of Tanks' production of these videos (or generally just have a desire to play a fun tank related game), use this link to associate your registration with the historical content they produce.
tanks.ly/WoTCh...
You can tell right away this was sponsored by wargaming. The music drowning Chieftains voice is here.
So many years this annoying unbalanced audio. Specially disturbing for those not used to listen to someone speaking English. For God's sake!!!
They hired the guy from the BBC who uploaded all the old Top Gear clips.
So this music volume is mandated by wargaming then? But... why? If its volume was less than half of what it is here, I might actually be able to concentrate properly on the really interesting stuff the Chieftain's trying to educate me in, but instead we get boss music with some faint, soothing Irish tones in the background, apparently.
Stupid music again. You would think by now Wargaming would have learned.
@@Quintus_Fontane the video is probably edited by Wargaming so it's their people doing everything besides shooting the video
Recently gave up on World of tanks. still enjoy your content. Slap the sound mixer 4 or 5 times please.
This is just Chieftain’s normal background music.......it must get odd when in the toilet.
@@davidbrennan660 Having dramatic music following you around in everything you do all day and night would be an epic nightmare.
Maybe he hears music all the time...Star Wars when he enters the Supermarket, Bad Boys, Bad boys is programmed to when he starts the engine. Maybe we shall talk to his wife instead?
Yeah, WoT has gone to the dogs. Lost interest when I found myself getting killed in less than 30 seconds into the game... why..... gold ammo, LOTS of it.
@@ThePzrLdr you should always assume they are shooting gold, armor has no value. it's more that it's gone from game to way to take money from people and watch them abuse people who didn't spend anything. games as a service is a way to make bad games.
I like the use of the old-style school chalk board as the backing image for the "green" screen.
everything is a green screen, aside from the man himself. The desk isn't even real.
@@leonjohansen1818 😮
The 'background' music is annoying, but I love the content.
*Someone* isn't familiar with the meenie-meenie riff, I see. Oh, sweet summer child.
That's how u know its actually a world of tanks video in a sense..... to help teach the gamers and well.... our man is good with the facts while doing a nice job keeping us amused.
I was so into the story that I didn't notice it.
*foreground music
Agreed
Imagine aiming for airplanes with a 25 sec airtime. Has to be a tense feeling between the firing and the explosion to see how well you potentially stopped those tons of bombs from creeping forward.
Needs a way to mute the background music . . . .
Absolutely. It's distracting & dire.
Awesome video! Loved it! 🏴 Really interesting!
German II-world war 'Acht-Acht' was actually further developed from year 1918 antiaircraft cannon of same caliber.
I use Jentz/ Doyle as the primary source in this, they have a fairly unimpeachable reputation. If they say the Naval gun was the base (wherever the Naval gun came from), that's what I'll go with
@@TheChieftainsHatch Well, about only thing common in these naval and Flak/KwK cannons was their caliber,,,,.EDIT But,,, what J/T and You are tlling seems also to be correct. Base of the 88 Flak m/-16 and -18 appears to be Kriegsmarines 88, mostly the barrel and ammo....
Please ditch the music while you're speaking.
88mm Pzgr 39 APCBC with explosive filler
Da comrade audio is balanced like game play.........
Suggestion: no music.
Agreed.
The picture in 9:40 is Wernher von Braun (Later a US-Hero who brought you to the moon 😇) surely he has nothing to do with the Tiger.
Porsche = 2 syllables = Por-Shuh -Love Ferdinand #PORSCHE
Gee never heard this called 8.8 cm but the 88 mm
With issues like this all across the German war industry how much fucking material and time was wasted?
My! that's a cunningly disguised AT-gun you have there... Someone might even mistake it for a Flak cannon... 0_o It was always a case of "My Boom-Stick" is bigger than yours... ^~^
kek
Music dramatizing a technical discussion. Hint: Geeks find the topic dramatic enough without vaguely militaristic background music droning.
Take that Tiger' th-cam.com/video/EIIZpI4MD6E/w-d-xo.html.
Love the !@#$ eating grin on the crew.
Awesome video! Who does your editing?
I think your editing is just fine my man.
Your mom
He works for World of tanks so some professional editor.
@@iivin4233 :.
Wargayming
The audio balance for wargaming sponsored videos is getting better I can tell
Better for whom? Certainly not people who want to pay attention to the Chieftan.
@@RonJohn63 I'm not saying it's perfect It still drowns out the chieftain a bit but compared to earlier ones where he was near impossible to hear I can actually somewhat hear him now.
And it took them only what six, seven years?
@@uzivatel56 Sadly yes
They need to hire Mark Felton.
9:35 Given who the dude without uniform is, they are probably looking at some other thing crashing on launch pad.
"It's not my department!", says Wernher von Braun...
Those NASA tanks tho
@@no1DdC - Great parody by Tom Lehrer
th-cam.com/video/QEJ9HrZq7Ro/w-d-xo.html
@@colbeausabre8842 you beat me to it - love the artist and this sing in particular!
yeah WG say 'grab a pic of some top brass looking dudes and tell the watchers it's the tank design board, no one will know....' a bit like their approach to the tanks in the game.
Background audio is too high, taper it down so we can hear the dialog more.
Thanks.
Yep background audio is never needed! Good info and good reference photos only, save the music for beginning and end!
I know when I start any WarGaming product their music has to drown out everything but nearby foghorns, but does the same have to happen to The Chieftain?
1:48 Given that the previous German AA gun was the FlaK 16, which had the same calibre, they could argue that these were just new mounts for old WW1 designed guns.
I heard they wanted to get around Versailles by calling stuff developed after 18 up to early 30s "18" so they could say they weren't making new weapons or breaking the treaty, hence flak 18 and lefh 18, I haven't read much about it but that's what I heard which makes sense
I found it difficult to press the like button over the music. Nice desk tho...
Dump the background music. It's annoying.
According to my readings, the British Military Attache in Berlin viewed the 1938 autumn exercises and reported on the use of the 8.8 cm Flak as an expedient AT gun. Like the Japanese Zero. it should have surprised no one.
The term Tiger II is never used by the Wehrmacht.
Even the Propaganda used this name only in one of the last Wochenschau.
So this name is a name from the US and English troops.
On German side it was often called Tiger B.
Good content. The background music is a bit high. I prefer your videos without it.
Military History explained the the 18 in flak 18 was a means to bypass the Treaty of Verstiles as it meant it was developed in 1918 IIIRC.
Blueprints more or less ready but no actual production because the war ended. ... Scouts honor.
I think that Chieftain is saying that the Disarmaments commissioners were not going to be taken in by a bunch of Germans in tweed and flat caps going "Es ist von 1918! Ehrlicher Gouverneur!
@@lostalone9320 Take a look at this. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7_cm_Leichte_Kraftwagengesch%C3%BCtze_M1914
To be fair, the Flak 18 DOES seem to be closely related to the Flak 16: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_Flak_16
11:56 That Panther is a modified G hull mounting a Schmalturm with a 75mm Kwk 42. The 88mm Schmalturm was never built
I really want to see what the original Slopped Tiger I hull with 88 L71 looks like. Do you have a blueprint for it?
Or did the idea never go past design stage?
Its in the game under the name VK 45.03 at tier 7 its basically just a smaller tiger 2. Being around 50 tons instead of around 70 like the tiger 2
I imagine it would look pretty much like a tiger 2.
Interesting and informative video. The music is distracting to the point of being annoying though.
when you think that by the time the decisions were made on the Tiger 1 with an 88, Feb 42
the British were still a few months away from having the 6 pounder in tank turrets in May 42
The Brits weren't fighting KV-1's in June 1941...
And the Americans were about to mount the 3 inch gun on the M6 Heavy, to create the most powerful tank gun in the world. Check out Chieftain's video on the M6
@@colbeausabre8842 Hi there, could you provide a link to the video please?
Love this format. Please talk about Koshkin's T-34 next and its pedigree related to A series, BT series and Christie designs.
realy cool video, but please cut back on the music a bit :)
A very informative video as usual Mr Moran. I never fail to learn something I didn't know from watching them.
It would be nice however to not have to screw my eardrums up to hear these pearls of wisdom over the annoyingly intrusive music.
Still enjoyed it, no pain no gain as they say.
The original 88mm APC round was a miniature version of the "Psgr.m.K. L?4,4" (Armor-Piercing HE Projectile with AP Cap Length 4.4 Calibers) used ass the last shell in such warships as BISMARCK, HIPPER, and SCHARNHORST Classes. These had a thick round-tipped AP cap for protection against thick face-hardened KC armor, 2% TNT explosive filler, and a 1.4-caliber radius tangent-ogive pointed nose (the naval shell also had a standard 0.035-second delay-action base fuze -- way too long for something as tiny as a tank -- and an aluminum windscreen, that would have been far too fragile for Army field use), The rather large filler size, about average for a naval AP sell used against huge warships, was greatly excessive against the tiny confines of the inside of a tank it had penetrated.. As a result, the cavity was reduced considerably, the AP cap reduced in size and made into a nearly-flat cone face, the base fuze had its delay reduced or even removed entirely (inertia would give it a built-in tiny delay, anyway), and its nose blunted to only a 1.1-caliber radius arc for strength and to make it ricochet less against thicker plate hit at a highly oblique angle. Similar APC shells were used by the new 75mm gun on the PANTHER.
The hardened corner at the edge of the AP cap's face would give a wood-plane notching effect at high angle impacts against thick homogeneous armor plates, though thin plate capable of denting had this effect vary depending on the thickness at any angle, all for angles over 50 degrees. When it happened, US tests showed that it gave a 12% drop in the required velocity to penetrate a given plate. The protection against damage afforded by an AP cap against the rather soft tank armors was only significant under some conditions, with in other conditions the AP cap interfered with penetration. A compromise.
the music is a bit much.
What in the world is that background music? jeeeeeeez
The old Steel Panther game taught me this
th-cam.com/video/nQSY0Rz1JxE/w-d-xo.html
The music needs toned down a big
very informative as always sir, I can only imagine the crap-ton of research that must be done in order to put out these types of videos.
Great content - but for your older hard of hearing followers - that music makes it very hard to hear you talking. And the subtitles route basically ruins the content
11:59 Isn't that still a 7,5cm L/70 but with a muzzle brake (on the Schmalturm-equipped Panther picture) instead of a 8,8cm L/71?
That was great, awesome, super, very good stuff. I have been reading books trying to find out how the 88 wound up in the Tiger Tank, but only could get bits and pieces, not one answer in one place. You fixed all that with this one video Chief. Thank You so much.
The phrase "the 88" is confusing. The Germans had several guns of calibre 88mm.
The gun in the Tiger 1 was a new design, and was not used anywhere else.
It was Kwk version of the flak 88/56 to be able to fit in turrets.
Different mounts were needed, obviously.
Projectiles were largely the same.
Watched about 2mins. MUSIC ...occasional word, MUSIC ...occasional word, would like to hear the rest of it if you have this without the music.
More like, how the 8.8cm got a body lol
Oh lord. The guy in charge of the previous irritating jingle is back. But now instead of a tinny Nintendo 64 jingle he's got the dramatic background music CD from an old soap opera. And he's added high school PowerPoint style video transitions complete with swooshing sounds. For the entire 14 minute video...
The Chieftain is brilliant. Some images to illustrate his talking points definitely add to the story. But the amateurish video animations, swooshing sounds, and irritating background music detract from, rather than add to, the quality of his presentation. Please get rid of them.
Great video.
Please turn down or even better get rid of the music tho
What's with the horrible, horrible foreground music? - After listening some more, let me upgrade that to a *"godawful".*
In fact it tusn me off so much that I'm not even offering German pronuciation notes on "Porsche".
Please try a more correct pronunciation of the name‘Ferdinand ‘PORSCHE’
The music is terribly distracting. I’d rather have just chieftain talking.
Please, please, please get rid of the intrusive and totally unnecessary music track. Let’s hear the expert speak.
The background music spoils the video. It’s not needed.
Great information. Dreadful background music
Why so much boss fight music?
As for the name: The germans had an 88mm Flak 16 in WW1 that actually does look a bit like the Flak 18. At this point in history germany played the "believe me, I follow Versailles" game and the former Entente Nations where willing to play with them (This is Appeasement era europe)
de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/8,8-cm-Flak_16#/media/Datei%3A8.8_cm_Kw_FlaK_1916_3.jpg
So looks over reality was the order of the day.
Ditch the music now mate! Your sweet Irish lilt is all we need Chieftain!
A lot of times I just use the close-captioning and thus never hear the distracting or overly loud background music.
Music is distracting
3:03 In fact, when Rommels mentions that battle in his diary he implies that it was already a doctrinal thing.
Annoying orchestra in the background.
There needs to be a way to mute the music track. It's such a distraction.
Your pronounciation of German is getting better!
Still a long way to go ...
The "dramatic" music's a tad distracting...
It reminds me of the music overlay on the older chieftains hatch videos on the world of tanks channel.
A link to the playlist this video has been reposted from probably would be a good idea
You did read his description, yes? ^^
@@Guhonter yes I did, that's a link to WoT registration page
The visuals are nice but I miss the killer bunny and emotional support missile.
8:55. “There was a brief discussion about using the Flak 41 but that got shot down...”
Get it? Flak gun. Shot down.
Heh
Would definitely like to see more content like this.
Why the distracting music?
Nice new cgi / green screen background.
Someone sponsor him a nicer desk....
Why was Von Braun shown in the photo at around 9:40?
It would be great to learn more about the armor used in the 6 Day War. There was lots of WW II armor upgraded and used by both sides, Panzer 4, and Stug on the Syrian side, Sherman’s, Centurions and half tracks on the Israeli side. It was, in many ways, the last big battle of WW II AFVs.
11:56
Correct me if I'm wrong, but mounting the long 88 on the Panther's Schmalturm was nigh impossible, if not practical at the least. Only a study to mount the 88 on the Panther was concluded.
The one in the picture is just the Schmalturm with the 7,5 cm still with its muzzle brake attached.
I'm just going to leave this video link by Cone of Ark here for anyone interested th-cam.com/video/rlCLikDTgjs/w-d-xo.html
9:37: "The German Military look disapprovingly at the proposed version of the turret"
No wonder, when Wernher von Braun is with them...
"What do you want to achieve with that iron age piece of junk against a supersonic V-2 rocket?"
HATE THE MUSIC! Shame because I would enjoy watching this but not with this music.
Background noise: exists
People in comments: “oMg I’m DeAf & cAnT hEaR hIM”
Seriously If you can’t hear then you need to see a doctor
Thanx Mr. Moran. Very informative and well done. For your future consideration, I'd like to understand the workings and roles of the German 20mm auto cannon. From 222 armored cars to Stukas it seems an interesting topic.
Werner von Braun makes a cameo @ 9:33. Hilarious.
8:54 "there was a brief discussion about the flak 41 gun *but it got shot down* "
I like how you defend the Tiger tanks when people say it was a bad design. No it wasn’t. The Tiger tank did what they were designed to do.
Just keep Porche's greasey mitts of the thing, oh dear the guvnor loves him...
It can both be designed to do X and be trash design at the same time, you know. Garbage in, garbage out, fascists had really stupid ideas how to wage war (see Maus and Ratte)...
Tiger had the highest knock out ratio of any tank of WW2, over 10:1. Most Tiger abteilungs performed very well, even in difficult situations. Very well liked by their crews too.
At 5:06 I read the text as TVP lol (LOL) TURRET ON THE.......... and not typ(e) 101.. That missing 'e' had me wondering quite a bit.. lol
Absolutely love what you did with this format!! Keep up the great work Chieftain.
This was an absolutely awesome. Hearing about all of the design decisions that went into the chassis and turret due to the changing gun requirements was just riveting. I also liked the mention of the Panther II, which was (to my knowledge) never produced due to being superseded by the Tiger II.
Nit-pick: Not Dora, Schwerer Gustav. The 19 March 1943 test-firing at Rügenwalde, attended by Hitler, was of the Gustav, after overhauling after the bombardment of Sevastopol, not the Dora.
Please lower the music a little. We who usually dont speak english will prefer to be relaxed and lisen to You (or is it listen?) , instead of stop and go back, What did he say?
Big problem number 2.
As a Swede, I am quite sure that the german boys worked with us back in 1925 till 1938. We made a 75mm anti aircraft gun, very much like the '88.
Our was called 7,5/36 (maybe even /37), later it became the gun in "Stridsvagn 74", and the rest became fortifikation in harbors like the Atlantic wall
but with 75mm, firing more then 6 000meters on boats and ships. Then we took the "Strv 74" with one engine and used the turret on our coastline,
as "Värnpjäs 74". Im just now trying to find out all different ammunition that fits, using some old books written for the QM in the unit to write down the right code
and number when they are ordering more ammo.
I think that I have a lot of books in Swedish that might be handy if you looking for facts from us (Bofors, Hägglunds, Ericsson, SAAB and so on).
Thank You for Your great job!
2Lt C-H Jansson Varberg Sweden Coastal Artillery/ Amfibie Forces (Ret.)
Gun shield because "If the enemy is in range, so are you."
T-34 fanboys took "The winner writes history" way too seriously... All these comparisons of 85mm from T-34 with the 8,8cm from Tiger, and then putting these two at (almost) the same level of performance. Or "just like Tiger could pen, Soviet T-34 whenever wherever want, the T-34 could with Tiger armor do all equally". Comparing the hydraulic sewer pipe with a potent, hi-pressure cannon and two tanks when one is twice the size and weight of the other - please stop. Stop the whole embarrassing yourself. :D
Not like comparing the tanks from two separate doctrines could work anyway.
The Panther's lighter, smaller 75mm gun had equal (and sometimes better) penetration against armor. But the Tiger II's 88mm high explosive shells were much more devastating against other targets like infantry and bunkers. Unlike "World of Tanks," most ww2 tank action was against infantry, anti-tank guns, light equipment, and bunkers; not enemy tanks.
"The German Military looks disapprovingly at the proposed version of the turret"
The photo is of the part of the German Military involved in the V2 rocket programme, including (in civilian clothes) legendary rocket scientist Wernher Von Braun himself, who ended up as a senior scientist on the Apollo programme at NASA.
It's only a guess, but I reckon that the chaps in this photo neither knew nor cared about the designs of tank turrets. Oops?
Well, there was a "Flak 16" from circa 1918, so the "Flak 18" would thus be a development of that weapon. Doubt that getting one by the Treaty inspectors was a reason.
Well, even if noone believes the 1918 development year claim, it's still better than openly breaching Versailles and admitting to it. This way, it'd be up to the French to prove this truly wasn't a 1918 design, based on the actual 8.8 cm FlaK 16 of WWI.
Why 88 was called 18? It might be with start of entire gun program at end of ww1. It was designed to be ww1 bunker buster (bigger abd better than french 75) but war ended and whole program was hidden. Drawings and idea transported to Swedish Bofors. But number stuck. And please dont ask for links. It was from a book I red many years ago and unlike scholar, I dont keep records...
In War Thunder when an 8,8cm HE gun hits a T-26: Not enough penetration comrade ;)
When an HE round hits an open top vehicle anywhere: arrrgh overpressure 😩
Gave up trying to watch/listen over that music... one more of these and I'll unsubscribe Nick. What do they think they are doing anyway drowning your voice out?
That is one fascinating story.
Though. Too many of the story is rushed into the short video -> lots of corners cut. Frankly it rather looks like a table of contents for an interesting story, where merely a key moments are mentioned in an awful hurry.
The epic background music is great.
Though it is rather foreground music and special effort has to be applied to filter the Chieftains voice from under it. Which is slightly distorted and has weird echo behind it.
The cool special effects of paper rustle and swinging illustrations in and out are so cool.
Though cool special effects repeated every couple of seconds and interfering with the voice already jammed by the music... can be classified as "highly irritating".
That is what I took from first 2/3 of the video when I decided I cannot take that any more.
Awwwwsomeness is great, but usability is the thing too often forgotten in a modern design. Having that from Chieftain who does always emphasise importance of ergonomics looks weird.
Overall. No, cannot recommend this new format for adoption.
Why americans (or native english speakers generally) unable to correctly pronunce Porsche's name? Or maybe unwilling?