Ever Wonder How Good Cars Wind Up At Auctions? The Tale of This Ferrari FF Is Just That...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- In today's video, I talk about buying cars, what happens when inspections go wrong and what dealers do with cars they can't sell - and why it might affect you. This involves a dive into the murky and strange world of BCA, some amateur sleuthing on my part and a very pretty (but rather broken) Ferrari. LA61 DYC is the number plate. Previously on F4 FNE
#Ferrari #FF #Auction
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A Ferrari at a trade auction is a red flag, especially a recent model. I am sure a vast majority of the people bidding will be fully aware the car would require plenty of time and money spending on it to bring it up to standard and to be honest if they are buying it thinking they are getting a bargain, they are in the wrong business.
Not necessarily. Most of the cars at Top Car sales have a history that is known due to dealer and vendor chat. Even Pistonheads threads!
Lessons I learnt.
1) never buy an ex fleet ferrari
2) I can't even afford a ferrari key fob
3) don't worry and continue with my life
It's refreshing to see McLaren New Forest's decision not to sell the car to anyone after knowing the problems. Saves other potential customers for having a potential lemon (which is a shame because FF is a properly desirable car in my opinion).
It good to see but I think they only did it to save on headaches post sale especially if the new owner found this video.
Correct it is good of them, but they still own the car most likey as the auction is just providing a selling platform but now Jay had to go make a video about the car rendering it sale proof to anyone .... so they’ll probably be stuck with it
Or was the person who made this video…
That's not quite right. All McLaren New Forest have done is put a third party or two between themselves and the new owner. Essentially all they are doing is taking their name off it as the seller and replacing it with BCA or the dealer who buys it from BCA to protect their own reputation. They should have been much more careful with pre-purchase inspection before taking the car into stock.
Enjoyed the video, as a fourty year veteran of motor trade let me try to help...Risk at trade auctions is reflected in the prices paid..also your estimates for repair are retail prices ,dealers will be paying trade for parts and wages for labour..this drops costs massively.
I agree that BCA is a racket but not for the reasons you have detailed...they own 'we buy any car' now you know😂👎
I was going to make this very point. BCA (WBAC) is more akin to a financial intermediary. They charge a processing fee to anyone selling with WBAC, knock the price they agree as low as possible to give themselves a chance of bettering that at auction, and then they charge a commission to the successful bidder at the auction. Means double (and potentially treble) bubble on every unit they shift. This is just a numbers game to them. And sometimes it works for us private owners to shift stuff this way. Caveat emptor!
"Risk at trade auctions is reflected in the prices paid" -- and prices paid at auctions are reflected in what the bidders THINK the car's condition is. Bidders set the price, not the "auctioners", so I don't see how the price reflects the condition of the car.
I’m astonished to discover that !
@@andycalifornia426 hey..you are right,the true condition of the car is not accurately reflected in the price brought at auction because as I said, risk (due to lack of information and inspection opportunity) is factored in to the bid.
That's why these auctions are generally trade only...the public do not have the facility to see a vehicle for what it actually probably is, or to repair the surprises cheaply.
@@ArbitraryFilmings trade dealers are constantly playing perception versus condition,it's their job to polish the turd presented by the auctions into something a retail dealer will buy to sell (or fire it back in to auction hoping some civilian bidder will push up)...they are a necessary part of the used car recycling ecosystem.
Fair play to you James for trying to protect the dealer looking to add this to stock, or making an unsuspecting prospective customer aware if they’re in the market for one. You now have the subscribers to make a difference. Good man. Ed
Dealer on dealer action. Everyone who buys at auction goes in with eyes wide open.
Exactly, this moron thinks he’s going to play Jesus and police everyone to make sure that nobody buys a car that is known by anyone with half a brain to be a high maintenance vehicle with a high propensity for mechanical issues 🤦🏻♂️
Dealers may go in eyes open. But the point was, do they sort the problems or just sell on to a member of the public who doesn’t find out until it’s too late?
@@bluegblueg buyer in that case has a warranty from the dealer and Consumer Rights Act remedies for defects. And is well advised to pay for their own survey. This is a non-issue really.
@@jameswillard1 James does a great job and I’m not having a pop at him.
Hi Jayemm I watch the majority of your videos and agree with you in most cases however I just had to put my opinion across on this one. I’m just going to put one thing out there as a used car dealer dealing with cars from £2500 to £250k. I think it’s completely wrong for someone to dictate to a dealer how they should sell there vehicle wether the car be right or wrong. It’s dealers option what they would like to do you gave them the option to buy the car as a trade purchase and they didn’t accept you draw the line there and move forwards. I completely disagree with a customer then saying that’s fine however you must now sell the vehicle how I tell you to. They only agreed because you have a platform.
BCA have terrible grade reports. As a example, when you sell a vehicle to We Buy Any Car they get auctioned off straight through BCA because BCA own WBAC. BCA will not plug a diagnostic in, they will only start the car and hear the engine for any strange noises. They will not drive or diagnose. They quote if I’m not mistaken any where between £100-£200 on each wheel that is scuffed and I think diamond cuts could be even more. This isn’t even talking about the rest of the body and what they would quote for scratches and marks etc etc. When they are at BCA having a grade report done they are scanned over by people who will just give the car a basic overlook. The dealer would not of disclosed to BCA what’s wrong with the vehicle. It will be interesting to see what sort of money/reserve there is on the car. People looking at this car in auction if they have any clue of the motor trade will know that there is hidden issues that’s why the car is there.
So yes the used car market can be very difficult. I would rather pay more from a private individual than from a auction. You have to understand I don’t disagree with what you are saying and I enjoy watching the channel however I do think it’s abit strong to dictate to a dealer how they should sell their vehicle. People spending that sort of money will usually have the vehicle pre inspected no matter where the vehicle is coming from, I could kind of understand if you buy a Ferrari from Ferrari the trust would be there but from watching this you can never be sure.
Gianluca. A very well written and well balanced comment… 👍
Gianluca you hit the nail on the head.
Any and All Purchasers dictate to the seller [dealer]. End of reply.
His inner authoritarian lefty popped out.
@@douglasjames4905 ? How's that?
Sadly this is just what happens at dealer auctions, it's a shame that the system works this way
I assume the general prices are lower assuming some issues are there and how good/bad it is varies over an average.
@MeakerSE pretty much, the dealers will bid on the cars with an average % buffer to their expected overall costs, meaning if they expect an average of 10% of the total cost of the average vehicle in repairs, they'll bid a flat 10% lower than they would theoretically pay for a mint example (doesn't often happen). This falls down when the % is higher than that meaning the cost to repair is higher than expected/accounted for, which is when corners are cut or profits are eaten into (you can guess which one a lot of dealers do). There will be times when the cars require less than 10% repair costs and in theory should even out (10% Is theoretical)
I've been a car dealer for over 13 years. Just to be clear, lots of "good cars" wind up at auction. Circa 70% of cars enter the used market via auction. There is a hell of a lot of suspect cars that find their way there, but it's all about understanding the various vendors. You have to be careful with supercars, but i see plenty of good ones go through too, especially over the last 12 months where 'We buy any car' have been paying huge money for cars.
BCA only put mechanical reports on cars under 8 years old, however, with supercars, they will often put an extended 128pnt report on older cars. This is where McLaren come in, as it's down to the vendor how cars are sold, E.G. 'with or without report' So Mclaren have chosen to sell this 'sold as seen'. But they are well within thier right to do so, that's the trade for you.
Any dealer worth their salt knows not to touch a supercar without a report. If they do fancy the gamble, they will usually want to pay the right money to ensure margin for error. The problem is, as you rightly mentioned, SOME dealers will happily retail with all the mentioned faults and hope they fly under the radar. Track the car and see where it ends up, Motorhub certainly wouldn't surprise me!
The tragedy is this car is far too good for Motorhub!
@@JayEmmOnCars Most cars are!
Yes Jay. That is just how business works. Cars are sold for a reason and it's very rarely for good will or because it's perfect. Can you or anyone else on this chat put their hand on heart and say they never withheld some information about something (anything) they ever sold? The reason a retailer charges more is the margin in any rectification or warranty.
Selling to a dealer, or selling privately?
Privately, I am as honest as I can be. Every little scratch is pointed out and made clear.
To a dealer - well, they've made their own rod for their own back. They will squeeze every last drop out of you, especially if they suspect that you don't know too much about what it is your buying. They frequently do just the very shady things (collectively throughout the industry) that gives them their infamous reputation.
So if that means I can only 'drop my car off in part ex in the dark' or I don't mention that it needs 4 new tyres or that there's a bit of a judder from the rear left then that's up to them. They should be doing a full inspection on the vehicle regardless - and it's not my perogative to assume otherwise.
@@L5GUK and you wonder why you think dealers try to squeeze as much out of you as possible? Because they have to consider the high risk of previous owners doing them over by not declaring any issues on part exchanges, which happens often. On top of this they have to pay huge overheads and eventually try and make some profit. They don't make as much as people think yet apparently they're all pirates.
@@bencocker7487 The reputation of a used car salesman didn't come from nowhere.
Their overheads are not the problem of the customer.
If they struggle with the cost of warranties then they should take more care to ensure the vehicles they sell are as they should be.
If they can't afford to do that, then they can't afford to do business. That's simple capitalism at its purest.
@@L5GUK ok just gloss over my main point of you thinking it's morally acceptable to part exchange in your undeclared clapped out old car "because it's a business". Yet when you buy a car and a tyre pressure sensor goes off you'll label the dealer as scum. Used car preparation costs come from the dealers pockets, not warranties. You're the problem if you think that a highly complex machine is guaranteed to never go wrong if it's been prepared "as they should be".
@@bencocker7487 not sure where I said anything about a 'clapped out old car'.
But carry on trying putting words in people's mouths. 👍
Excellent video, great content. I couldn’t believe McLaren tried telling you shock absorbers are supposed to leak. McLaren dealers don’t help themselves do they! Thanks for putting on the big boy pants and telling this story.
LOL, if I ever fail a annual vehicle inspection due to a leaking shock - which is an automatic failure here - I'll tell the inspector "But McLaren say that shocks are supposed to leak!" - I'm sure they'll whack that compliance sticker straight on the windscreen no more questions asked.
Hi James what can excellent informative video. Has just reinforced my belief only buy at dealerships - at least you have half a chance of a come back if there's a problem. If you find out what happens to the Ferrari I hope you'll be able to update us! Well done and thanks 👍
A private sale is even better in my experience. No matter what sales environment one chooses, you’re buying the previous owner’s maintenance history as well as the car. If you interact with the previous owner, you have the opportunity to ask direct questions and to read between the lines about the car you’re considering buying into.
Just found the channel and loving the videos.. What i will say on this one is that maybe you can not tell a dealer how they can or can not advertise their car. Especially when they send it to auction. Everyone who buys these types of car, or any car for that matter, knows the risks. BCA at the end of the day are an auction house and the same can be said of any auction house no matter which product they are selling. I work in the trade for a large company, purchasing vehicles and know the risk involved with buying cars at auction, which i do! Anyway, great channel and you have a new subscriber!
Enjoyed the video James - your content is unique and always worth watching.
I am custodian of a Porsche 914 with a 3.2L engine swap. The car was local to me, I’d known of its existence for maybe 4 years, but had never met its owner. One day, I happened to mention to a mutual friend, that if the owner ever wanted to sell, it I’d like to talk with him about the car. As it happened the owner had submitted it Bring A Trailer. I was able to reach an agreement with the owner to buy the car for what he had into it rather than at BAT’s sky high bidding pricing; under the condition that he would have right of first refusal for the sum I paid him + cost of improvements I make to the car, should I want to sell it.
The PPI he had done was really superficial (I’m certain the owner wasn’t aware of its lack of accuracy.) For instance the PPI noted a small oil leak at the rear of the engine, that my mechanic discovered was a defective rear main seal (a $2K job). And on from there.
Sorry for the length of the context. What’s relevant here is that similar to BCA, BAT had just accepted that PPI without any question. These online auction sites are money making scum. Not only are they inflating car values; but also, they lack the integrity of a person to person sales agreement.
In all honesty, i am a dealer and have been burned a number of times by other dealers. We do the repairs on our end and chalk it up to experience. We had instances that a few cars we bought are on the interpol watchlist.
Superb video. You should do a follow up if and when the car comes back on the market!
Great video and all valid points relating to high end, potential money pit supercars. At the other end of the market auctions, retail to retail rather than dealer to dealer, can work well. I have bought a Rover P4 at auction that I drove home in a that needed a little work but now runs perfectly, and sold a fully sorted Lotus Excel through an on line auction, taking advantage of the speed and ease of sale. Auction houses encourage buyers to inspect before purchase not all sellers are looking to sell duds.
I work in the motor trade & know for a fact that stuff that goes to auction normally is too expensive for the dealer to put right or even worse has something stopping it from being fully warranted when sold such as prior accident damage that hasn’t been repaired correctly or irreversible engine tuning which most main dealer software will pick up & put a mark on the vehicles online identity which is permanent & thus prevents future warranty claims or the guarantee of the longevity of the vehicle.
Any dealer/seller should run a light year from James!
All they will get is a load of agg and if he feels he's been mistreated then a scathing video putting the boot in.
These old FF's are to be avoided. They were trouble new with that front transmission. Unless you are a millionaire then why bother? In fact the clever money buys a new Lusso.
Really enjoyed this. Live down the road from Meridian and have been to the McLaren dealer you reference. Thanks for highlighting the issues with the car!
This unfortunately been going on for years,when the registration system changed to the newer 2 letter prefix,those in the know could smell a rat.My old employers bought cars from auctions for forecourt stock,they're in SouthEast England but on one occasion returned with a Scottish registered vehicle,upon inspection there were signs of rear impact with a creased floor,but otherwise to look at it seemed ok from 1st glance.Now a dealer in Scotland decided to sell that at auction that was over 300 miles away,why? Surely there is an Auction closer ? Got done TWICE like that,so it got to the point that unless the car was registered within a 150 mile radius they wouldn't even contemplate buying a car from further afield than that.As always the decision always seems to come down to money,morals and principles are left by the wayside.Great video as always 👏👌
I’m very fortunate to own a Ferrari F430, a Ferrari California, and a. Ferrari FF and the truth is it’s a phenomenal vehicle , amazing sounds, fantastic looks and the driving joys it brings are priceless!
I wouldn't touch an auction unless I was a mechanic and wanted a 'project' car. I guess it's a case of "Caveat Emptor"
I love these videos. Now imagine JayEmm making deals while wearing a hidden camera.
I noticed that dealers and flippers almost never ask about car condition when they're bidding (pcar, bat). I suppose they simply don't care since it won't be their personal car. Case in point, I'm selling a car online and a dealer just gave me an offer no questions asked. Everyone else wants to know tire dates, brake wear, maintenance history, etc.
That's the motor trade right there - forget it's a Ferrari, forget it's meant to be nice, forget everything except you are the buyer and as such (like JayEmm) you need to do your due diligence when buying something like this from an auction. That aside, I find it hard to believe a car like this is in such a bad state after only 60k miles. After all, my crappy Land Rover Discovery 2 has just covered 170k miles without needing anything...... and at the time of purchase I thought it was going to be in and out of the Dealers like a revolving door. Just keep in mind It's only a Ferrari
I think 60k miles is quite a lot for these sorts of cars. From what I’ve seen, they’re not intending them to be driven that much so they don’t hold up. Doesn’t sound great but that’s what I’ve seen with super cars and exotics
Jay has never dealt with trader auctions. Everyone going in knows what they are looking at. They know the risks and they price it in when they bid. It to a degree is the point of these auctions. It is to move on cars. The higher the sale price the higher the commission for the auction house as such it is not in the auction houses benefit to declare "everything". Also of note is the cars are often sold on a condition that the buyers can reject the car if they find the auction house has grossly missold its issues however depending on which company they give limited time/space ie you have one hour after auction to inspect and reject.
I have never owned a Ferrari & unlikely to do so anytime soon .....Personally I would not feel comfortable getting into an FF in absence of a worthwhile inspection & a suitable warranty.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the car & your take on how things have panned out to date as of time of video go live.
I totally understand why you requested the dealer concerned should ensure the car is auctioned with full disclosure of your inspection report. Despite any ethical intentions, some may feel that you can/should not dictate how the car should be auctioned or otherwise sold.
I have physically attended well known auction company site on multiple occasions Vehicles can be sourced at hammer & fee prices that can allow traders to potentially make a tidy profit, however, allegedly sometimes the figures can be far less attractive. I recall attending an auction site with a switched on trader..He bought an RS4 that he allegedly later found to need various work including all rims being replaced at significant cost....Allegedly not a lot of profit in that one. On balance he claims he has made decent profit from many vehicles sourced at same auction site.
Some may feel that more vehicles purchased & sold can spread the risk & offset losses or weaker post prep margins. I know of traders who sell high end &/or prestige stock who state they often prefer to source stock from private sellers.
Some may feel that some interested parties have financial incentives that do not always benefit buyers. Conversely some may lose little sleep if some traders end up with less profit than they might otherwise hope to yield. Sadly some traders allegedly fail to sort or disclose known or discovered issues before moving on &/or retailing.
II have tried to reactivate my well known online auction site access without success. Perhaps log in &/or membership has become more stringent in recent years.
I genuinely appreciate your seemingly candid disclosure & hope it does not impede or prevent future inspection or buying opportunities.
I will be curious to know if you bid or cause some to bid on this FF or later share more info on this car & any associated purchase/sale activity. Please later share more info on this FF if later appropriate to do so.
Thanks
Very interesting I remember 25 years ago walk-through a bca lot and seeing some on the surface high end cars
Normally cars from bca auction come with a rac inspection and a guarantee. A friend of mine brought a 997 turbo from the bca auction and turned out to have a list of issues like this ff they just took it back . If this ff didn’t have the guarantee and it’s grade 5 I’m sure the trader who purchased it knows what they are getting into .
What it shows is that in general the motor trade seldom do a lot of due diligence on anything they deal with, it’s a case wash and polish and stick it on the forecourt for sale, when a buyer turns up negotiate the components he/she finds wrong and little else. Unless it’s a manufactures warranty they aren’t worth the paper they are written on. I would have walked away the minute they didn’t want an inspection done. Considering the price of a Ferrari I am amazed at how poorly finished and engineered they are. Exclusivity today seems to be defined by price and looking /sounding pretty.
As always a great video James, and very interesting. Thank you.
You can't blame BCA. People know or should know the risk of auction. But equally you can achieve great bargains. BCA are huge and certainly know what they are doing.
Swapping GTS to FF.
GTS latest and greatest of QPV. By comparison a simple, roomy and beautiful car.
FF, the first of the 4WD Ferraris, complicated gearbox, complicated everything and looks that wouldn't be called timeless or good looking.
Tbh bought a lot of cars from BCA, with 3-4 year old cars with less than 45000 miles get a main dealer warranty straight after...
You can get refunds from BCA providing you report the fault within 48 and it’s an assured car, I’ve had a refund before on a car that had an engine management light which turned out to be a gearbox fault, BCA communicated with the main dealer I took the car to and they collected it from the dealer and sent a refund to me.
Scary thing is BCA also own We Buy Any Car. Seems like some/most dealers, and BCA, rely on the consumer picking up the bill.
All McLaren New Forest have done is put a third party or two between themselves and the new owner. Essentially all they are doing is taking their name off it as the seller and replacing it with BCA or the dealer who buys it from BCA to protect their own reputation. They should have been much more careful with pre-purchase inspection before taking the car into stock. The person who sold the car to McLaren New Forest has gone skipping to the bank with a bigger pile of cash than they should have.
I think you are pretty much right when you said, someone is hoping that whoever ultimately buys this car, puts it in a lock up garage to appreciate in value and just leaves it there long enough so nobody notices what's wrong with it and tries to make any sort of warranty claim before it's too late. High value specialist cars like this just aren't fit for driving anymore.
I'd be disappointed if any normal car had such a list of issues at just 60K miles.
I think you're being a little naive James. Anyone buying from an auction, dealer or not, should know that it pretty much sold as seen and you take the risk that its a dog or maybe not. As an example I handed a perfectly good 530d back to the finance company and it went to auction. Who ever bought it got a good solid car with FSH etc.
Further more if you are buying a used car, from anywhere, you are taking a risk. To buy from a main dealer you are mitigating the risk some what but you are paying more. The risk increases as you come down the chain until you get to a local generalist, that takes cash, and your happy because its cheap but in fairness anything could be wrong with it but you got a perceived bargain, so thats fine.
Your Mclaren dealer would have sold you the car with a warranty and anything that showed its face after you bought it would be settled on that, I assume.
The idea that the press cars are a good buy is ridiculous. As anyone who has been around press cars, they take a beating from all manner of unskilled drivers. There's nothing that maintenance can do about revving the nuts off a car from cold short of a new powertrain. There's lots of abuse that cannot be reversed short of massive work that simply isn't done. Put another way, if you'd seen how the car had been treated during its tenure as a press car, you'd never buy it, no matter how many oil changes it had had. Likewise, if your own car was treated like that, you'd be mortified.
What an eye opener. Thank you James for sharing your experience. If, say the dealership to fix the car (£20k) what would the car actually be worth then? But aren’t all auctions under the term ‘buyer be aware’?
Shout out to the lads at Meridian. It seems like one of best places in the U.K to take your high-end car
No ‘BCA Asured’ report on the BCA listing for this car James which is a basic mechanical check so it’s down to the buyer to be aware of that. Grade 5 looks to be accurate to me from the cosmetic report. This is just how auctions work I’m afraid, you pay your money and you take your chance.
That Mclaren dealer is scummy. There is absolutely no way they didn’t know what was wrong with it. EVERYDEALER- New/used car comes in, SAFETY inspection is completed.
I don't believe the McLaren dealer either. I think Jay was probably trying to be diplomatic.
@@elta6241 he’s not throwing out conjecture and assumptions. Very mature for him to do. I am a random keyboard warrior and will make assumptions and conjecture.
Thank you for always being honest.
From my time at WBAC we appraised cars all day. A grade 5 means the car may as well be scrap. The grade scheme is vague, this could be anything from one piece of small rust to chips and scratches everywhere. I doubt it has rust on it. That car cosmetically must be a complete dog. Watch no one touch this car. Beginning to think it's a complete shambles McLaren even said yes to taking it as PX.
Why is this at all surprising to anyone and why do you expect BCA to effectively do a PPI on an auction car? Do you know how auctions work? This is the risk which is why it should be priced in. My uncle used to buy cars at auctions, it was on him to check everything and he priced in the risk when bidding. His rates for parts and service are also not the same rates that the rest of us get when we go to a dealer, especially a Ferrari dealer.
Dear Jay, Put something on internet which would attract potential buyers for this particular Ferrari - ie. its number, model, Auctioneer's name etc and then either car doesn't sell or goes at right price.
Good video, instructive but....
64,000 is very high mileage for any Ferrari (the equivalent of 500,000 for a Toyota Corolla).
In addition this has been thrashed as former press car (just look at how Top Gear treat cars).
Most people would price in at least £50,000 of rebuild before even tackling the engine.
As for BCA, they are doing a job and I'm pretty sure that buyers know that the auctioneer cannot do detailed surveys. As mentioned above, 64,000 miles should have all the red lights flashing...
After watching years of videos of journalists wailing on press cars for hour after hour, relentlessly with zero fucks given, no way I'd ever consider knowingly buying an ex-press car.
The dealer who buys it will do a basic inspection, have no awareness of the underlying issues. The new owner will end up bit by bit getting these issues resolved through warranty. Almost every used car I have bought has required varying degrees of warranty work, some taking 6+ months to get to what I would call "right".
There’s a long to-do list and warranties are often very restricted in what they cover.
Thank you JM.
i was very interested in buying the car and communicated with the previous owner to find out more of its flaws.
It came down to being better to pay more for lower mileage/better condition/warranty etc, so also lost interest.
Great video, thanks again
Moral of the story is get a PPI if you are a consumer. It's a game of chance with auctions, some you win some you lose, as you know I choose not to play that game any more and I never ever bought high end older cars from auctions, expecially BCA. It will no doubt sell for way behind book assuming McLaren NF have put a sensible reserve on it, the motor trade isn't stupid and will realise why I car like this is being entered. If a naive trader does over bid on it then more fool them.
Bankrupt Stock and cars from deceased estates go to auction, to realise a quick sale with the minimum of personal involvement and let the market decide what it's worth
This is like a Vinwiki story
What an ace video, thank you.
So many people will be wreaked by broken exotic cars nobody can repair or cost too much NOT AN INVESTMENT....
As the saying goes, there is no honor among thieves.
So mclaren we selling this as is, pre prep...and you're unhappy the haven't removed the rear undertray?hmmm...
Now they put it in a trade only auction for another profesionally to buy, a profesional who knows the risks involved that such a car would bring. Its a numbers game for traders they understand some will win, some won't. As for how that trader would sell it you're getting bit "crystal ball' there. Perhaps they will just sell it on, but perhaps also they have their own guy ho can prep it for 5-10k.
I'm surprised you've done this for so long and yet think think this is newsworthy
That’s why the general public don’t buy from auctions - it’s always been buyer beware with no come back
it will be very interesting for you to find where this goes .. which dealer buys it and see if they list it without the required work being done
The vendor (Forest Green in this case) can pay extra for a mechanical report to be carried out, looks like they didn't request it.
I also think you're being a bit naive in thinking a dealer would buy a 60k mile Ferrari without understanding it would need MAJOR prep. The first thing they would ask themselves is why is it in auction and which company submitted it.
Would / could you bid on it, if it was going for something close to what you had suggested to McLaren? You could then break the inevitable cycle and it could become the car it deserves to be?
Sold as seen mate.
Sold as seen.
Now you know, James, are you going to bid? You're in an enviable position. You know it's value. You've been very kind and let us know aswell but you want this car. I think it's 10% deposit on the day then x days on the balance.
Unfortunately as much as I would love to, there is no chance of me owning this car in future now. It would look a little bit "Scooby Doo" to say the least!
Pretty much all of BCA's cars are dogs.. They're mostly very broken part exchanges that are not worth retailing
It has always interested me how they do end up at auctions.
I've been in the motor trade my whole working life. Zero dealers in the world would tell any auction houses the vehicle is a nail. Just wouldn't happen. It's not a case of screwing anyone over. It's business at the end of the day. You win or lose at auction...it's a gamble. End of.
That's really not such a bad list of problems.
Problems are Ferrari prices to fix it. So dealer/buyer buying this car should expect to shell out chunk like this buying sight unseen, without inspection.
I've bought much, much worse 996 Turbo once upon a time. 4X times of problems including one seized Turbo and gearbox issues.
You’re being entirely too generous to McLaren here. They knew exactly how BCA operates and effectively passed on their problem down the foodchain…!
James, I generally love your content. Its genuine honest commentary and very entertaining. But this video is a bit much. Having a 'bee in your bonnet' and raising the concern with your viewers about a business-to-business / trade auction is a bit over the top. At auction it has always been 'buyer beware'. Anyone not aware of this and who chooses to buy at a trade auction needs to be educated as they are being very very foolish. If that education comes in the form of them buying a car with lots of issues then so be it. They should not have been there in the first place.
Keep up the great work but please keep the commentary to consumer issues (and steer clear assessing proven business models and practices that are clearly not your area of expertise) and in my opinion it will play better to your strengths and hopefully for you keep your channel focused and growing.
I'm in no way connected with the car trade or indeed BCA.
Kudos for doing the right thing 👍👍👍
Another vehicle that has a PTU is a Boeing 737. True
Well sorry to say this is how Dealer auctions work from my experience working for a large auction company in the USA. They are the toilet the car market flushes cars thru the system....Buyer Beware...There is a story behind every car but you can rarely find out the real history at wholesale dealer auctions.
Hmmm….why would you want to buy a used Ferrari?? All I hear is constant trouble, big bills, neglect, paintwork issues etc….. earlier on today I saw a 170,000 mile 68 plate Skoda Superb estate…it is at a trade auction and looks almost as new….value maybe £8/9000….I don’t need it but I would rather buy that than that FF!!!😳😳😳
What I think that's going to happen is that the cost of repairs is going to fall in some customer's hands. Like always, the end user is going to be screwed, not the companies or dealers. The dealer that is going to buy the car from the auction will do the same thing: conceal the defects and wait for some rich guy that just wants a Ferrari because he can afford. And this kind of people don't usually ask a lot of questions, they just hand over the credit card and whatever goes.
Of course, there are some car enthusiasts who require PPI and stuff like that, but they're a minority. Exotic car buyers don't really care about repair or maintenance costs. That is confirmed by the attitude of exotic car dealers, if you're not a rich guy, and if you ask too many questions, you're wasting their time. It seems like there's enough clientelle for them. These exotic cars are more than just a lump of money, they're also status symbols. Mainly status symbols I would say. Of course, some of us may actually enjoy driving them, but the price of purchasing and maintaining them, and the dealers' attitude tells another story. You pay for the brand, not for the actual work, or parts. Their prices are ridiculously well over the materials and labor involved.
I see you are somehow trying to promote these cars as somewhat accessible to the regular people, maybe even worth trying for a year or two, by financing them, but they really aren't for everybody. Let's not forget the price of these cars as new and what their target market is.
Sorry any dealer buys this is savvy. The next customer not so much…
It's car laundering. Common in the US for salvage title cars that get rebuilt and then auctioned in a state that doesn't track salvage titles (like Kentucky).... Salvage Autos UK almost got caught by this with a Lambo.... At least some auto auctions in the US have guaranteed grades.
Is this the mclaren / Bentley in Bramshaw? Beautiful showroom in a marvellous location !
I don’t think it’s up to the McLaren dealer to disclose information about the state of the car to BCA. As always it’s up to the buyer to exercise due diligence and if they can’t, factor the risk into the amount they are prepared to bid. This video will likely scare off any potential buyer. Meanwhile, the McLaren dealer will limit their reputational damage but will likely take a bath and rue the day JayEmm came to visit. This car has had a hard-ish life and is going to be a maintenance nightmare beyond the already long to-do list.
Why not? why are you even paying BCA for then? they should do their job and be professional...
I recently posted on another site that even a handful of history is technically useless. It’s nice to see BUT had the work been done. Being a cynic and owner of many many cars in my life with friends in the trade I know only too well that it’s the same as houses… BUYER BEWARE!
A good candidate for VINWiki.
Ratrossa should buy this
Doing a MOT without looking under it - wow
If Roman's buy it? Popcorn time !
Jay, now that you know what state is in are you not tempted to bid? What's the worst that could happen?....
So what did it sell for or did BCA close your account?!
Dealer margin.....they are all big peeps - they can look out for themselves..
Oh James, I love your videos, but they are unwatchable on a big telly, I have to watch on a phone. On a big telly it's like you're trying to hypnotise or give me an epileptic fit. Control your effing hands and arms, they're everywhere....
Gave up after 10 minutes. I'm sure it was interesting, but your hands everywhere.....
The miles alone would put off most potential buyers. Let's see what it makes at auction, the car may still be a bargain for some brave buyer with a trade account at a specialist workshop. It may even end up looking dirt cheap for a car with such interesting history and provenance?
Damp weather in the UK just kills every car
But why? Why move the Maserati on so quickly? What's wrong with it?
bought as seen so BCA wont loose any sleep.
did you miss the second page of the bca inspection? the mechanicals page?
There was nothing beyond the cosmetic inspection when I checked, and the vehicle is now no longer listed so I'm unable to double check
I’d hate to see what a poorly maintained Ferrari press car might look like.
One of your best videos, this story is not unique to the UK, if anything it's worse in the US shamefully so.
Not showing on BCA now James 🤷♂️🤔
"Got to make sure it's done honestly"
I thought you knew the motor trade inside out!! I think it's extremely naïve to think that every car that goes to auction where the vendor knows there's a fault, it's advertised as such. As a remarketing manager for a major leasing company there are legitimate reasons why you would - the traders are repeat customers and you could/would lose trust. But, for a one-off car, why would you say "Hey, here's a car that has some hidden issues - give us £20k less for it" - they may as well have sold it to you.
Nice one.👍
you ever wonder why dealers fight so hard for $50 floor mats....