William Lane Craig Retrospective IV: God and Time | Closer To Truth Chats
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2022
- Analytic philosopher and Christian apologist William Lane Craig discusses the relationship between God and Time. Even if one does not believe that God exists, still God and Time helps probe the nature of time itself. Craig has authored or edited over thirty books, including Time and Eternity: Exploring God's Relationship to Time.
Craig's latest book, In Quest of the Historical Adam: A Biblical and Scientific Exploration, is available for purchase now: bookshop.org/books/in-quest-o...
William Lane Craig is an analytic philosopher and Christian theologian. He is known for his work in the philosophy of religion, philosophy of time, and the defense of Christian theism.
Register for free at closertotruth.com for subscriber-only exclusives: bit.ly/2GXmFsP
Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and produced and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
Excellent. Don't ever stop your search Mr. Kuhn. Their are many of us along for the ride with you and appreciate you more than you may know.
Thanks for watching! We've got so much new content on the way.
@@CloserToTruthTV
I hope you will have Peter Hacker on the show. He's made a brilliant contribution to the mind/body problem, the hard problem of consciousness, and its relation to contemporary neuroscience. It would be a great shame if he were not to be interviewed here.
This is an amazing conversation. I literally couldn't help myself from laughing out loud at certain moments from the sheer depth of the line of inquiry executed so masterfully by Mr. Kuhn, and Dr. Craig's keen ability to provide satisfactory answers without skipping a beat! This reflects that we have here two very smart individuals enjoying a deep conversation on some of the most complex matters within the ambit of human comprehension. Kudos gentlemen, keep up the great work!
You are having a laugh now
The most important topic of the series.
Bringing god irreversibly into time creates more problems than it solves imo. I think there is a better scenario that does not create so many contradictions.
It is essential to approach this topic with an open mind and without any theological or belief system bias.
It is really entertaining to see the convolutions of philosophers of his bent trying to explain concepts and ideas that are studied, analyzed, and experimentally tested by that little thing that called the scientific method. I believe it condescended entering into time some 3 centuries ago.
Great conversation! You both are great!
Does anybody really know what time it is? Song of the same name. (Chicago)
My head is spinning from the whirlpool of circular reasoning. 😵💫
What's circular about the reasoning?
@@legron121 That God is timeless yet somehow, He creates time and is included within it..
@@quantumdecoherence1289
I agree that that's questionable in its intelligibility; but, it's not "circular reasoning". To use circular reasoning is to presuppose the conclusion you're trying to establish.
WLC's answer about the "Mary the color scientist" issue was very interesting. So God, does not EVERYTHING in the broadest sense ever, but it is reduced to propositional knowledge.
So God learns something "new" when God enters into time.
My favorite show and podcast. WHY is there no PBS show or podcast anymore??????????? Please return!!!!!!
Closer To Truth's new season, 21st, on Scientific Breakthroughs, will premiere in September on PBS stations nationwide! Thanks for your support! Podcasts too.
@@robertlawrencekuhn4483 Absolutely wonderful. Love U brother. Thank u!
@@robertlawrencekuhn4483 Ah, the quest goes on! Bloody good doctor Kuhn, bloody good... I'll be tuning in.
How many books called Closer to Truth are behind Robert? I can see four.
Dr. WLC superb as always.
I'm interested in these topics discussed in Closer To Truth
(The flow of) time stops at a black hole (which is a very interesting problem in the concept of reality I think). So what's his point about 'time having existed so time must be eternal'?
How many exceptions to the rule, circular arguments, and mental gymnastics does it take for WLC to just assume God exists?
It's just dismal, isn't it? Not quite sure how he holds down an academic position when he's just a preacher hiding in plain sight.
Lovely lovely thank you
Enjoyed the discussion. I do think we try to understand God by our limited knowledge and this results in many fatuous theories. We could never understand the extensive nature of God. I believe that not only God created time and can uncreate it, He probably exists in time and outside of time as part of His omnipresent existence.
When i go to work , i always got my ethics, i don’t just dive in the feald, because of my respect
Robert, when will you chat with David Bentley Hart on his new work on mind?
It sounds like the God he is describing could be quantum mechanics that manifests as temporal reality in the wave function collapse (as QM reality is 'virtual' and 'timeless', and tensed reality is 'what is manifested' a.k.a the particle in quantum mechanics)
Although even the virtual QM reality underneath the tensed reality is still interacting with each other, so this could also be called manifested (or at least actual or effective), even when it is not really manifested. So mmmm
Maybe I don’t want to set aside that first, I just want to see my family spending my time with my mom
Did time and creation happen together? Is there any relationship between time and creation?
God goes from timeless to being in time by his act of creating or bringing about time?
Yes, circular
Bring on Ed Feser (or Pat Flynn) and also do an in-depth discussion with Braude and Radin on the nitty details of the evidence!
Does time have to be factored in for freedom?
Can time be described without referring to God?
Time had beginning; can anything be said to have happened or existed before time, in the case there was no before when time began?
The best talks about existence collection ever!
Dr Craig 'knows' that God can have properties that he 'knows' the natural world cannot possibly have. Eternal, in time and timeless. Right...........
Do you have an argument, or did you just want us all to know about your personal incredulity?
@@joshheter1517 Take it easy there.
Dr Craig wants to 'play tennis without a net', according to Sam Harris. He says the universe cannot be eternal, but God can. He gives no reason for this dichotomy, because he cannot. He can't even prove that God exists (which is why he requires of his debates that this topic not be
broached)
@@tadmorrison
The line from Sam Harris is a vague, vacuous gripe that anyone could lob at anyone else when they think their arguments are lacking. It’s playground stuff.
Craig has published a number of arguments for God’s existence. Maybe you don’t agree that any of those arguments are any good. But, just asserting “he can’t even prove that God exists” is tantamount to question begging.
Also, Craig has addressed the issue of eternity as it relates to God but not the universe many, many times.
@@joshheter1517 He would have to know everything about the universe to make such a statement, would he not?
@@tadmorrison
I don’t know everything about you, but I know you can’t fly to the moon like Superman.
I would have like more discussion about the correlation between the concepts "change" and "time". In God's timeless state does It change at all, and if so, how could It (I've just decided to make God genderless; I don't know why)? When time starts does the possibility of "change" start? Here I'm taking "change" to mean the rearrangements of timeless "matter/energy" (e.g. hydrogen) into differentiated states (e.g., helium or water). The discussion about making historical events tenseless did not help me all.
Could time be infinetisimal, growing as it accumulates?
Why describe God in terms of time?
But for every thirsty being there is water somewhere. God is a real mystery.
Why it looks to U mystery.
god is how ignorant people say "I don't know"
Have you ever had a thought like why does christians have three Gods but in one unity essence?Father is timeless and boundless,and when he created space and time he put his spirit or mind or thought and son inside the space and time first and then the three of them works togerther and created everything else.
Here's my question: If it took me an infinite amount of time to punch someone in the face, then do I ever punch them? The answer must be "No." My position is that time is a man-made tool to measure entropy; if one is timeless, then they are literally not moving or changing at all, which brings the question: how could something that is not doing anything (timeless like God) actually DO anything, such as create, think, so on?
The answer is very simple: Special pleading.
All of the rules that Craig sets up to exclude naturalistic explanations somehow don’t apply to God.
A non-mainstream Muslim sect known as the “Karramis” from 1,100 years ago held the view that all of God’s “action attributes” had a beginning
What if one comes to surrender that our existence is but a blip in time and the idea of a god is a millisecond of that blip.
Is there time without the universe, before the universe?
If time always will be then time always was.
implies that creation always was, leading to an infinite regress, meaning creation was never created, which is incoherent.
In the year of our Lord , 2022
Does God have an age? The universe is 13.8 billion years old even though human beings are not but is God 13.8 billion years old?
I find it ironic that one of the only or time that I’ve seen that he’s brother on someone who’s not a conformist to the scientific authority, he has to give a disclaimer about being fair to a different perspective. The perspectives are usually hardcore materialist to borderline theistic materialist
Love the way Billy Liar reckons he's better placed to speculate about cosmological origins than actual cosmologists are.
Personally, I think you and everyone reading your comments, are better served if you provide substantive criticism without the smears and name calling. Just because someone may have a different, or even opposing, viewpoint or interpretation of reality doesn't make them a Liar. Remember, an essential means for personal growth comes by exploring and contrasting our understanding of the world with those who may see things differently. It is a fundamental fact that one of humanity's greatest strengths lies within our diversity and freedom of thought. Lesson here: don't make it personal by attacking someone else, instead keep the critique centered on the merits of the debate!
@@bakedalaska6875 congratulations on missing the point... which I suspect you did deliberately 🤣
God is a concept , by which we measure time .
Time begins when the money goes in the meter. At that point we are volunteering to be subject to time in a small way.
Talking about time and God Is talking about time from the point of view of an eternal observer of time. How does time appear to an eternal observer? To us with transient existence, time flows into the future but for an eternal observer, time is an ELASTIC SINGULARITY. It is stagnant but with respect to all other things that had to come into existence, time flows. It is comparable to how, to someone on the earth, the sun appears to be moving across the sky whereas that earth stationed observer is the one, along with the earth, rotating and moving around the sun. So it is with time and our transient existence.
What is the elastic singularity of time? Past eternity, the present time and future eternity are all squeezed into an infinitesimal dot or singularity. If you mentally hold two opposite ends of the dot and try to pull them apart, the part held in one hand will always equal the part in the other hand. The stretched portion in between will be the particular event in time that you want to consider. That stretched portion is like zooming in. If you release the two points, time contracts into singularity.
Talking about time and God, it's especially important to examine expressions used in the Bible in relation to time. For example, 2 Peter 3:8 where it says: "However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah (God) as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." From this, one can almost see that time can expand and contract from the point of view of an eternal observer. Many similar expressions can be found in the Bible.
On the other hand, God created intelligent humans with free will - freedom to use their intellects to make choices. He has chosen not to predetermine or fore know the decisions that each one will make. He cannot violate the free will that he endowed humans with. That is why he will hold each one accountable for the decisions that we make. Here is an example in Genesis chapter 4 verses 6 and 7: " Then Jehovah (God) said to Cain: 'Why are you so angry and dejected? If you turn to doing good, will you not be restored to favor? But if you do not turn to doing good, sin is crouching at the door, and its craving is to dominate you; but will you get the mastery over it?' " So Cain was given the free will to decide what to do.
"It would always be the case in the future that time DID exist, and that's a temporal relation"
If time stopped existing then there would be no possibility of a future from which we could turn around and observe the death of time from.
So, it would cease to be true that Caesar was assassinated on the Ides of March? I don't even know what that would mean. It happened, so, it cannot _not_ have happened. Or maybe I'm missing something....
@@legron121 the event exists. But to determine if it is a past, present, or future event depends on our point of reference on the timeline.
The death of Ceasar will be a past event in every point in time between the moment of his death and the end of time. Will it be a past event in the moments after the end of time? No. Because those moments don't exist.
@@sugarat5555
No future moment exists, since "exists" is in the present tense. What you surely mean is that there will not be any moments after the supposed end of time. But I think what Craig is getting at is that if time ended, it would still be the case that time HAD existed, which would mean that time exists.
@@legron121 I don't think I understand. If no future moments exist then how can anything "still" be the case? If there is no tomorrow then today will never become yesterday. If time ends you are not "after" time.
@@sugarat5555
That no future moment exists is a mere matter of grammar: “exists” is a present tensed verb, equivalent to “exists now”. So, to say that tomorrow “exists” is just to say that tomorrow exists now, which is patently incorrect.
Think about it this way: The past cannot cease to have happened. By definition, the past is what has happened. But, if time ended, then the past would never have happened in the first place (because if it had, that would be a temporal relation, and time would exist). Since the past HAS happened, that option is off the table. Even if everything froze into some static, eternally unchanging state (so that there could be no “minutes”, “seconds”, or any time differentiation) it would still be true that things WERE once changing and morphing before. It would not be a timeless state. Likewise for any other conceivable situation.
Before time existed (ie Tzero), if God had a thought would there have been a time before that thought and a time after that thought, has God always existed in his timeline?
Bro if God is subjected to Time dimension, then how come He is Supreme.
@@economics_basics1590 God is not 'subjected' to time, time doesn't do anything to Him. It just means there is a sequence of events for God as well. And He is supreme because He is better and bigger than anything else, given He created most everything else (except for possibly time)
@@GalaxyCat001Bro Did U follow any religion
@@economics_basics1590 Yes i do.
@@GalaxyCat001 which
Thanks for having Dr Craig on again Robert. I really enjoyed this.
....because it helped to support a worldview that you grew by reading in an old book of ghost stories as a kid.
@@TurinTuramber calm down Geralt. You sound emotional.
@@cjdamage8918 Was I wrong?
@@TurinTuramber of course you were. Blinded by your emotions.
@@cjdamage8918 You are eager to pivot to talking about my emotions, so that means either I was wrong and you were not raised as a Christian or you were and you are trying to obfuscate. If you are / were a Christian then you just lied to me or perhaps clinging onto a technicality.
For God there is existence without time?
Thought Santa Claus was third most influential theologian
Even as a troll, this doesn’t make sense.
My txt is from the last arguments with my friend brian green, sorry
Videos every day discussing the ultimate questions and my man Mr. Kuhn does not have a proper microphone. Both men have to shout through the reverb.
2:20: No, that is not an original idea. The Nahua are documented as holding the same belief about the divine, for they told Sahagun that the divine was spatialized at the creation of time and everything in it.
Just want to let u know
Imagine, if we’re living in a planet with no daylight, then how do you calculate your time’s, time’s pending to the sunlight, even if you could survived in a planet without lights, you’ll never find out how old you are, and never find the time’s as a fourth diamentions, another words, no lights, no time’s, no life’s !
We could experience the changing of the seasons through our senses other than sight. We could stand on the beach and count the number of times the tide goes in and out.
If there was no light then, presumably, we would never have evolved eyesight and would have developed some other sense instead. Perhaps a sensitivity to fluctuations in magnetism or gravity.
@@sugarat5555 excellent post
This is a question about the relationship between that field and our consciousness. The field is the invariant, No time in the field, our consciousness is the variable. The birth of consciousness is accompanied by the birth of time. God's consciousness is omnipotent, so it is the creator.😉
It seems to me that Dr. Craig's acceptance that some things are "logically impossible" puts logic in a position superior to God and therefore introduces the idea that logic might be God.
Exactly. We derive logic through our experience if reality. If God created our reality then God must have existed before logic as we know it. If that is the case then God's existence cannot be contingent uppon any logical premises and this whole discussion is pointless.
Or, the “things” that are logically impossible aren’t really things at all. God can’t make a square circle, but that’s only because “square circle” is just a nonsense string of words; it refers to nothing.
so now you don't need evidence OR logic. just assert whatever garbage you want. sounds good.
If one considers a big bang at time 0 and there was a quantum fluctuation that was causal to a big bang, this to me would seem like a paradox. My reasoning would be that if time did not exist before then nothing could not move including the wave function. A metaphysical argument can be a cosideration but it's difficult to access in our clockwise minds.
Time is surely dependent on some level on existence, if no observer is conscious of time does time exist?
Metaphysics can imagine any reality it wants but it's just another opinion. Metaphysics is religion in lab coats.
Does a wave function move?
No time=no events.
Again. The Function, Intelligence & Mind Categories and causal links ... prove the Universe & Life are Functions ... must be made by an intelligence ... and .. the Mind of an Intelligence is Unnatural & nonphysical ( ie soul/spirit). This is the evidence that proves God did created Man in His likeness with a body & soul ... less than 6 000 years ago.
There is absolutely zero evidence proving nature & natural processes made the Universe 13.7 billion years ago, ... or ... made the simplest molecular machine ( LIFE) 4 billion years ago ... or ... can turn a simple molecular machine into a complex molecular machine.
So time, space, laws of nature & the matter & energy of the Universe ... was made by an UNNATURAL intelligence ( God ).
God made time so God is timeless and always will be.
Time is made to measure an existence.
Space is made to establish the boundaries of an existence.
The Laws of Nature determine the TYPE of existence.
And matter & energy are concrete Functions made for the Physical or Natural Existence and possess the Law of Nature.
There is no need at all to use metaphysical arguments to explain the origin of a Function.
Everything in the Universe is an abstract ( time, space, laws) or physical ( matter, energy) function made by an intelligence.
Man is an intelligence that makes abstract & physical functions .. from everything in the Universe.
The Universe as we known it ... began less than 6 000 years ago ... when Man was made by God to live forever ate a certain forbidden fruit that would kill his body ... the the bodies of every descendant ( Human Race).
You cannot let Dr Craig talk alone, without a strong opponent. He will spew his imaginary tales of the Universe with great conviction and as ultimate truths.
Biggest bullshiter of all time.
I miss "Hitch"
@@babaker2892 He destroyed Hitchens in their debate
@@MACHO_CHICO I bet everything Hitchens said went into one of your ears and straight out the other side.
@@MACHO_CHICO "He destroyed Hitchens in their debate"
Buahahahahahahaha!!! Oh right. You believe in sky fairies. Sorry.
I look forward to our meeting Mr. Bill🕎🕛🤴⚓🔱🌊🐬🚀🌌
Billy Craig makes supernatural assertions while lying about science. I guess that's been working for him so far. Why change?
That's the way the Christians like it.
Do you think calling him “Billy Craig” makes you seem more credible?
Do you think it makes people take you more seriously or less?
@@joshheter1517 I call him billy LAME craig does that help?
@@scambammer6102 Helps me.
"Do you think calling him “Billy Craig” makes you seem more credible?"
No. It's just an expression of my contempt for his intellectual dishonesty and moral cowardice. Is that a problem?
What makes my points credible is they are supported by observable, testable evidence, something theism and it's unfalsifiable assertions has little to none of.
@@con.troller4183
Sounds like it’s kind of indistinguishable from an ad hominem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Time…..is on my side , yes it is
Professor Colin Blakemore of Oxford and Warwick... his photons joined God 7.27. 2022. It was his time. We have alot of brains and Souls on the Angel Team. The other Jacqueline Wernett died 7.24.2022. In Warwick at Kent Hospital.
Japan Earthquake and Oak Fire. Day.
His photons ? Was he luminous ?
@@tonyatkinson2210 yes, he was also made of protons, neutrons and electrons. Carbon based. Mostly water and electricity. Is a bulb bright.
An infinite conscious being that is everything would know everything…That is why, perhaps, he, she it scatters part of its consciousness into myriad life forms throughout the Universe and experiences itself subjectively as people and other creatures etc…Allan Watts said “it’s God at play”…
This can only be true if your particular religious theology is correct. And obviously it isn't any more correct than the others being currently pushed.
Their religious certainty (faith) doesn't provide the credibility that they think it does. Apparently, god will be whatever you want it too be.
And you can make the words timeless and spaceless mean anything to fit your gaps.
@@leob3447
👍
Might time be part of God's existence?
Ohhh let's play make up stuff to fit into my theological narrative, no matter how ridiculous.
I know. And Craig is supposedly the best of the best when it comes to apologetics.
He talks big about evidence and reason but it on record saying that even if he was presented with irrefutable proof that his faith was wqrong, he would persist in his beliefs. Also, among his "top six reasons" to believe in a sky daddy... "personal experience".
Derp.
Very helpful; much thanks.
@@joshheter1517 No problem 👍
lol, quit your whining 🤣
Craig contradicts the Bible which says that everything in and of this universe will pass away. Jesus says don’t store up treasures on earth where they will corrupt and rot away. He said instead store up your treasures in heaven where they will not. According to the Bible, time is only a concept needed for this world where entropy exist. In the heaven described by the Bible, age nor entropy exist.
Also, Paul stated that everything we see [the universe] was made with things we don’t see. Time/Space/Matter as we know it we’re created/started by things that existed prior.
So as a person who believes the Bible to be true (not TH-cam experts 🤚🏻)I’m not getting how Craig says that time that’s created had to always exist.
Let me explain. WLC is just making up nonsense to sell his book whereas the Bible is a book selling made up nonsense. Hope this helps.
It is beyond my comprehension how someone can speak with such apparent confidence and certainty about topics that, to the best of my ability to assess, he has ZERO basis to know _anything_ about.
And how can Robert use the same word "research" to describe the unbounded, unanchored speculation engaged in by Dr. Craig, as the product of scientific inquiry. Language fails us if we use "research" to encompass faith-based cognitive ramblings as being on par with verifiable, evidence-based observations and measurements.
No wonder so many people feel competent to "do their own research" on topics as diverse as vaccine efficacy or anthropogenic global warming. Basically, they can just "think" things into reality, and _that_ is regarded as "good enough", which as far as I can tell is all that WLC has done. After all, EVERYONE _is_ entitled to their own opinions, right? And surely it must follow that everyone's opinion is of equal merit, whether or not it's supported by evidence.
Thanks SO MUCH, Dr. Craig, for putting solipsism and relativism on such a sound epistemic foundation!
WLC has books to sell to small minded people, seems like this channel is getting a cut of the action.
When I hear WLC say, "it seems to me", immediately a red flag goes up.
He theorizes about things he couldn't possibly know and his basis for "knowing" there's a god is the "inner witness of the Holy Spirit" which supersedes all evidence and experience. I can't abide his epistemology.
@@cindychristman8708 He either speaks from ignorance or with knowledge but chooses to lie about the science. Not good either way.
In other words. He’s talking shite
What part of "He's a philosopher" did you miss from the intro?
The Function, Intelligence & Mind Categories easily prove the the Universe & Life are Functions ... made by an intelligence ... and the Mind of an Intelligence is unnatural & non-physical ( soul/spirit).
Man has always known that only an intelligence ( like Man) makes rules & Laws and anything that has clear & obvious FUNCTION, purpose, form & design.
Theism is actually a natural phenomena .. and most people will always believe in a soul/spirit and "the gods."
A religion simply believes it has identified the INTELLIGENCE that obviously made every function in the Universe.
Either all of the Religions are wrong ( eg Abiogenesis, Evolution, Atheism) ... or ... there is one that has correctly identified the "creator" and fully explained why we exist.
Everything in the Universe is a Function .. with purpose, form, design, information .. and was made by an UNNATURAL intelligence.
Time is an abstract Function ... with the purpose of measuring existence.
Space is an abstract Function ... with the purpose to set the boundaries of an existence.
Laws of Nature are abstract Functions ... with the purpose of setting the TYPE of existence ( Natural or Physical).
Matter & Energy are concrete Functions ... made specifically for the Natural existences with purpose, form, properties, with the Laws of Nature.
And Man makes abstract & physical Functions, from the abstract & physical Functions of the Universe ... clearly made by a very very powerful intelligence who is supernatural & timeless.
Dont know .. Time is so relative even in this universe that i really think that "timeless" and "a sensation of time" can coexist easily. Experiences in NDEs shows that (no matter if supernatural or physical episodes). But only consciousness can experience a "timeless" existence.
It’s fundamental
@@Earthad23 time or consciousness ??
@@francesco5581 I think it’s consciousness, I can’t imagine a concept like time without it. Yea I think it’s fair to say time is an artifact.
@@francesco5581 time but now time seems to relative to my conciousness existence haha
I’m sorry but what do NDE’a demonstrate about time ?
William Lane Craig on limiting your intelligence.
Well, maybe *your* intelligence.
It would be good to see you talk with Sadhguru. He says the Universe has been created and destroyed about 83 times so far. Each expression of the Universe is but a complete breath of Brahman. Out and then in. Exhalation and inhalation. Creation and destruction.
I dunno what to make of wlc. Listened to a lot of his utterance, yet I cannot come to a conclusion. Is he one of modern time's greatest thinkers way beyond a simpleton mind like mine, or is he just weird? Maybe someone can help...
Edit: I'm from Western Europe, never heard of the man before TH-cam's mysterious algorithms brought him along LOL.
He's someone who got a PhD in philosophy and then cashed in by selling his soul as a Christian apologist. He's not even trying anymore to make real philosophical arguments.
All you need to know is he's a philosopher. And if you are not convince with his arguments that he's definitely not a great thinker.
The Function, Intelligence & Mind Categories ... prove the Universe & Life are Functions, composed of Functions ... were made by an intelligence ... and the MIND of an Intelligence is unnatural & nonphysical (soul/spirit).
Man is a physical intelligence ... therefore the mind of Man is natural (brain) & unnatural (soul).
God did created Man in His likeness ... with a body & soul.
And Jesus(Son of God) did say 2000 years ago to "Love God with all you heart, mind & soul." Both the body & soul ... can love or hate God. This is why the Messiah had to be born of a virgin( made by God) for the corrupt body of Man is his nature ... and will think & do evil ... even if you were the Son of God.
God created the time, space, laws, matter & energy of the Universe.
God is timeless as He is Spirit.
Man is body & soul ... and the body is made of matter & energy, must obey the laws of nature are is subject to time.
The soul is timeless, but Man only becomes conscious of his soul and the non-physical when the body dies. So Man leave the physical existence with time ... and ... joins a timeless existence.
When you die, you go straight to Judgement day in the future of those you have left behind on the Earth. This is why Jesus warned Believers 2000 years ago, to be always be ready for His return ... as you do not know the day or hour ... that you will die.
This also why when Jesus returns to rule for 1000 years on Earth ... dead & living believers join Jesus in Heaven. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit who is everywhere and can take multiple forms at the same time (Genesis 18). There is no time in Heaven. Jesus has returned to Earth where there is time.
God made the time, space, laws, matter & energy of the Universe ... because He made Man with a body & soul, knowing that it would take 7 x 1000 years, including the Millennium Reign by His Son ... to save his Children.
The current Jewish year since the fall of Man is 5 782. God had a reason for the 6 day creation & the 7th day belongs to God ... and 1 day is like 1000 years in the Jewish & Christian Bible.
God is and will always be timeless. He is the creator of time.
@@abelincoln8885 Abe thanks for your lengthy reply, but I'm already having a hard time with Craig's "facts". This doesn't help, since I don't believe it. I just want to know: what is Craig's position among his peer scholars?
When Santa breaks wind, it smells like peppermint and gingerbread! All of you, please grow up....
they can't mommy says they get to live forever. the details are vague.
@@scambammer6102 Well said, 'bammer.👍
Oh, the irony.
«Closer to Truth» should be renamed «Further from Truth» after this farce.
Closer To Another Season.
I wonder if anyone has ever thought of this joke before.
The creation according to Islam is not a unique act in a given time but a perpetual and constant event; and God supports and sustains all existence at every moment by His will and His thought. Outside His will, outside His thought, all is nothing, even the things which seem to us absolutely self-evident such as space and time. Allah alone wishes: the Universe exists; and all manifestations are as a witness of the Divine will.
It boggles my mind that people take this professional evangelist seriously. The Kalam is ridiculous and it's his whole career
Time is eternal like us.
Sounds like you aren't coping with your mortality very well.
Doesn't 'eternal' mean: for all time?
"Time is for all time"...
If before time there is nothing
Time starts and ends within that reality
All that exists is in the middle
First there was the thought
Then there was nothing
Consciousness is not part of the middle
it creates the stage
What was before time ? absolutely nothing a closed system
How long was that stage?
Who cares it is nothing
Where was God when there was only nothing?
God was there and so was nothing ,,,,,,,,,, only one of those things represents non existence
The first U.S. moon landing was not in 1968 but on July 20, 1969, as I'm sure any American grade school student could have told Dr. Craig. Perhaps the 1968 landing of which he speaks was "tenseless".
How can there be a 'before' time exists? And how can there be a change when there is no time? A change means that one moment it was such, and at another moment it became so. But when there is no time, there is no moment and hence no moment where a change can occur right?
You tell me now,how I should be. Not like I am, the way each of you want me. This will be lots fun.71\2billions of différents me.HaHa
William Lane Craig should have been an internet romance scammer. The dude is so smooth and a master of sophistry and conformity.
I'm amazed that you would give someone like William Lane Craig the time of day Mr. Kuhn. No offense, but are you going to have a conversation with someone who believes in Santa Claus next? How about someone who believes that the Hindu gods such as Vishnu and Shiva are real? People like this should not be taken seriously. I understand that you wish the christian god was real but there comes a point, and I think we're pretty much at that point now, when we need to stop giving people like Craig a platform to voice their unsubstantiated superstitious beliefs.
Yes, the older Dr. Kuhn gets, the more it seems he likes having Christian apologists on his show. A big fan of Pascal I'm thinking. Still, he's given us many a great guest over the years. But the recent parade of Christians, I admit, is getting tiresome...
Because William Lane Craig is world renowned philosopher who has heavily impacted not only philosophy of religion but the philosophy of time as well ? I don't understand how you can deliberately misconstrue someone's work as merely being a "fairytale" when even his field's professionals who might disagree, still see him as a great mind. You're sense of pride of being a rational man is heavily contrasted with your inability to fairly give charity to your opposition, get over yourself.
The greatest & most influential Religion ever ... is Christianity. Remove Judaism & Christianity form world History ... the Human Race is screwed. Remove Hinduism, Islam or Buddhism from History and the world would a better place.
Superstitious beliefs? You do realize .. the life, death & resurrection of Jesus Christ ... is actually in the Jewish Bible written 500 years or longer before he was born 1 Nisan 6 BC and died 30 Nisan 30 AD exactly 40 yeas before the destruction of the Temple.
The Jewish Bible clearly states that Jews will reject the Messiah, will be cursed by God and expelled from the land, but will eventually repent their sin and accept the Son of God in end times.
All the prophesies about the Messiah from the TaNaK have & are being fulfilled with a Jew called Yeshua.
The Jews had their first Temple destroyed by the Babylonians because the sinned against their God and defined the temple with prostitutes & idols. But they repented their sins and 70 years later were allowed to rebuild the Temple.
What did the Jews do 2000 years ago that pissed off the Romans who completely destroyed the Temple, expel the the Jews from the land and rename it Palestine? Did the Jews defile the Temple with prostitutes & idols? No. And even with the state of Israel, the Jews are still under God's curse for something the did 2000 years ago ... and refuse to repent their sins.
The Jews stupidly believed the Messiah ... will be a great military leader who will defeat the Romans, end the occupation and bring everlasting peace. These false Messiah were attacking & killing Romans believing that God will give them victory.
But nowhere in the Jewish Bible does it say the Messiah will be a great military & political leader that defeat the enemies of Israel. Instead in clearly states in Genesis that God the Father will send His only begotten Son ... to be a sin sacrifice to save the souls of Believers(Faith) ... to satisfy God who must punish all who sin.
The Messiah is the Son of God ... and was sent to die as the Passover Lamb ... to save God's Children ( Jew or Gentile).
Jesus knew He was the Passover Lamb and will die .. and had absolutely no interest in going to war with Rome ... but only interested in saving the souls of anybody who believes.
Where is the superstition with historical events, & fulfilled prophecies made hundreds of years before Jesus lived?
The Jews still had Jesus and curse his name ... and are still under God's curse. There are no more than 15 million Jews, most don't believe in God, ..... and yet they will claim a religion of over 2.6 billion that began 2000 years ago with Jews, is a roman/greek pagan cult with Jesus being a gentile god.
Again. The Jewish Bible says the Jews will reject the Messiah, will be cursed ... but will EVENTUALLY repent their sin and accept the Son of God as their Messiah.
The Christian New Testament was written 1900 years ago and states Jesus will return for a 1000 year rule the Earth before Judgement Day with 144 000 Jews who died believing in the Christ in end times.
God had a reason for the 6 day creation & the 7th Day belongs to Him, and saying in the Jewish & Christian Bible that 1 day is like 1000 years.
6 x 1000 years Man rules the Earth
1 x 1000 years God rules the Earth.
Judgement Day.
The current Jewish year since the Fall of Man is .... 5 782. Superstition? lol.
The Function, Intelligence & Mind Categories, and causal links ... prove the Universe & Life are Functions .. made by an intelligence ... and the mind of an Intelligence is unnatural & non-physical ( soul or spirit).
God did created Man in His Likeness with a ... body & soul ... less than 6000 years ago.
There is zero evidence that nature & natural processes can make & operate the simplest molecular machine ( LIFE ) nor make it more complex.
All Functions are made by an intelligence. It's this superstitious as well? lol.
@@matthewbonaldo4137
World renowned philosopher? Ok. I don't think that's true but it wouldn't matter if it was. Great mind? Never heard an atheist call him that. I didn't misconstrue anything and I didn't write that his work was a fairytale. His work is certainly based off of a fairytale though. Plenty of intelligent people who have delusional beliefs due to their fear of death. Unless people like you can show empirical evidence that your invisible friend is real you shouldn't be taken seriously. You should be viewed as being no different than an adult who thinks Santa is real because you are no different. Your sense of pride of being a "believer" has made you unable to fairly give charity to people who don't believe in your imaginary friend. Get over yourself.
Just another one of these substanceless WLC ankle-biters.
Imagine you are God and decided that creation is too much of a trouble. You decide to create nothing. The mathematical model of nothingness is a string of zeroes, as long or short as it can be, but only zeroes, including the string with absolutely nothing, not even a zero in it, no string. In that case, you, supreme God, lord over what?
Corollary: God depends on my sins to exist.
God exists in immediate time. He is regardless.
No, what is maintained by Mr. Craig is not correct: God cannot be timeless before Creation and then starting to be in time with Creation. That timeline cannot be correct. What stated by Mr. Craig implies that exactly at the INSTANT ZERO of the creation God is timeless and knows the ONE future: what will ACTUALLY happen (hypothetical, false futures don't matter here). But that one future known to Him also ALREADY includes all of the GOD'S FUTURE ACTIONS! Of course only God can decide his own actions! This means that those God's decisions were previously made by Him - BEFORE the instant zero - and that at the instant zero those decisions were ALREADY ALL COMPLETE.
This means that God before instant zero is NOT TIMELESS as claimed by Craig. Before the instant zero there have been A FIRST PHASE when the God's work was NECESSARY TO DECIDE and A SECOND PHASE when all those decisions were COMPLETE. The instant zero of the creation is situated in this second phase.
When we see a planet far from the Milky Way Galaxy, Earth looks like a drop of water, a cell is the seed of life for the whole human being, and likewise, time is a drop of eternity.
when we come to an Eternal life. eternal life is not a place or location, but the life revealed in Jesus Christ. For example, we have the seed of Adam, we are the children of the first man, we live in the world in time, as we have the seed of Adam, and the seed of Christ we can have eternal life, the human body has a temporary life in it. The spiritual body is the immortal body or the eternal body, that body is Jesus Christ, but when we come to the place, the kingdom of heaven is like a universe, it's a location and a place for those who have the seed of the eternal life Christ Jesus. the Bible says .
To know Jesus Christ is eternal life. (John 17:3)
Simply put, we will live in heaven know God forever. Because God is NEW and NOW.
We have never seen a planet outside our galaxy, since the nearest galaxy is ~2.5 millon light years away.
@@TurinTuramber we have seen thousands of them with telescopes. astronomy is a thing.
@@scambammer6102 Ok cool, link me a picture of these extragalactic planets...
@@TurinTuramber Extragalactic. OK that's an absurd assertion.
Third most influential theologian is akin to third most influential Ouija Board player.
Or third most influential con man.
Well said!
Do you have an argument to back up these assertions?
I do not believe in God's existence but if one did/does exist and if God created the universe then time for God (from wherever he previously existed) would be different from our time measure.
His view makes sense as a believer, out of necessity. You can't be vegan and have your bacon too. Although he is dead set on time being endless, but God could easily reset this (Nietzsche eternal cycle) if he is himself intrinsically timeless.
You could also say a la Spinoza that the substance of God is timeless, but he has a mode or attribute which is our tensed reality. etc
Although I would find it easier to say that timelessness can exist in time, than time in timelessness. As the first is what happens in a black hole in our universe, and the other in a hypothetical existence of a timeless substance which is God with an attribute of hypothetical tensedness
No disrespect, but I don't like this kind of philosophizing. And putting aside my personal feelings, I think that all the ideas mentioned here are not only highly "controversial", but most of them are also logically incoherent as far as I can tell. In any case, it does make me wonder about the current state of philosophy on general, and the complex dpstonction between the more and the less rational philosophies of various types that can be found on the current intellectual scene. It's like there's a general agrrwment among philosophers that science is not enough, that there's value in philosophy, that its methodology and subject matter is (more or less) autonomous, etc. etc., but then again, when you take that assumption to the extreme you get this kind of stuff that borders on utter nonsense, not matter how much psychological satisfaction can be found in it.
An unfortunate choice for a guest: Craig seems to operate from a double truth model. For him, Reason has a subservient relation to Faith. He knows Christianity is true by Faith, by the self authenticating inner witness of the Holy Spirit, and whatta ya know? Whew, he's able to show it to be true by Reason. Don't waste your time with this smarmy lawyer arguing a case. He's unwilling to follow Reason wherever it leads.
Exactly right. This is typical of theists everywhere in my view. They are only interested in discussing facts and logicial reasoning when they think it will make their God more valid. Then when a free thinking rationalist uses facts and logic against their God claims, they all claim special pleading and don't want to play anymore.
Photons do not experience time. Time is relative. WLC contributes very little to any discussion of reality.
The best episodes are with WLC.
As usual, no evidence for any of his assertions.
Theologians usually detest or ignore evidence. Unless of course it slightly supports their wild ghost stories, then they cling on like a frightened limpet.
Craig has published two whole scholarly works about the God's relationship to, and the nature of, time. Go read them if you want to see the arguments.
In the meantime, you can settle for being retarded in public.
What kind of evidence do you need here? Lol. Same thing you don't want to attribute to God you attribute the universe. That the universe is eternal . Don't be foolish
@@markkyama3390 Being an uncaused cause isn't proof of deity. Why does Yahweh get exclusive claim to being the founding mystery of existence? Because some apologist called shotgun on the definition.
LOL.
If gawd can just exist, the universe can just exist.
@@markkyama3390 I don't think anyone is claiming the universe is a timeless, spaceless, disembodied mind.
Bob, first we have to define time. According to Bible, time is a constrast of Day the Light and Night the Darkness (Gn1:5), which is the ultimate order, in other words, Time could be consider as LORD God Himself if He is CAUSE OF ULTIMATE ORDER. Second, we have to in different worlds or at different ultimate limit-speed realms, discuss time, e.g. in Dirac Sea and Metaverse the Original, time is imaginary from the view of our Planck World. Peace,
As a wise man once said “he’s an absentee landlord!!!!!!!!!!!!”
_"an eternal determination to create"._
A cause exists eternally (forever, without beginning or end)
therefore, the effect has never occurred,
therefore --> The Universe does not exist.
Always adding something that you don't really know one way or another. Just a runway imagination.