CORRECTIONS: - As a few of you have mentioned, I believe that Warp Sight doesn't actually allow the Rubrics/Scarabs to shoot out of line of sight as the tags specifically call out the aspiring sorcerer as having the tag, not the rubrics themselves. I don't THINK this changes even if they're joined by a psyker leader, but please let me know if I'm mistaken! - I also said the Mutalith Beast can use destined by fate to cancel a save, it can't as it's not a psyker.
Worth mentioning that you can take the arcane vortex on the DP for D2 & D4 attacks since his melee is a psychic weapon. Doesn't make the model good but it is fun. Per point though the buffed damage output of 10 Rubrics with InfM is better than 10 Scarabs with the Termie Sorc and if you can't get into rapid fire range you deal about the same amount of damage (assuming both are fishing for MWs). More fragile bodies however. So far InfM has been a staple in most my lists and his auto 6 has been so clutch for saves or damage/wounds. Killed a melee Wardog with the aspiring Sorc in combat after getting charged.
i will never get to hear the words, "im totalbiscuit and im here to ask the question, WTF is Warhammer 40k Mechanicus" or Battle Sector or Boltgun @@fernandozavaletabustos205
Just yesterday i played them for my first game of 10th (1k points, 15 rubrics, 1 disc sorc, 5 termies, 20 tzaangors and 1 hellbrute) against necrons (basically the indomitus box crons with a few changes here and there). It wasnt a fair fight, and i kinda felt bad for my oponent. The moment i managed to take down the reanimator, his army just crumbled. Doombolt did some goddamn great damage, and both flamers and termies are crazy powerful if properly positioned
I think the infernal master is seriously underrated. With arcane vortex, he's one of the most lethal HQs in the army. He's also the most cost-effective means of getting cabal points and hia auto six on a wound can generate alot of mortal wounds in melee
for cabal points only magnus is worst points for points than the shaman. his only real use is to turn a max size squad of tzangor into a better but more expensive unit.
One thing to note is that Warp Sight specifies psyker models which means only the sorcerers themselves would benefit from it, not their squad of rubricae
@@jordanstrunk120 yeah they get Fly keyword if a Disc sorcerer joins them but it doesnt mean they fly. Some people are making this army better than it is capable of being. Like shooting Psychic boltguns out of LOS.
Arcane Vortex on a normal sorc is quite powerful. For a cost of 15 points it will kill >2 marines per Fires of the Abyss. If you get of a single Fires of the Abyss it wil (almost)l always repay its cost.
Very few people are going out of their way to get anti-fly. Primarily because NOBODY runs aircraft, but also because since Fly no longer just ignores terrain, there's very little reason to go out of your way to punish it.
True enough but i wonder if people should bring some considering all of elders vehicles are flying. Probably not since most anti fly is only ap1 and don’t out compete lascannons or anything like that.
@@Gw2Zoke please read Commentary Rules page 7 Keyword paragraph, on download section of Warhammer Community. Yes the full unit gains Psyker keyword, this sample is explicitely given by GW rules designer
@@peterheinzo515 it's also bringing opportunities to the opponent : if they have antipsyker weapons they will hit the terminators more easily. Up to each TS player to decide : keep termies alone and don't benefit from a nice mechanism but don't suffer from some kind of weapons or pay 105 points more for the contrary. This is what we expect from a game : be free of using different options for a different cost, while trying to optimize our play to capitalize on strong points of our army while also trying to minimise the bad side effects
inwould start 10 termies with leader on the board, and invest in the crystal. its definitely worth the points to get a few more cabal points turn 1, if you can afford it. then you can teleport them into place exactly where you need them.
My experience is that Thousand Sons scarab blob doesn’t hold up well to monster mash type lists. They also struggle to push enough damage into Custodes. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but I haven’t been able to keep them getting their points worth. And no, I won’t shove the entire army in 6” or Magnus to try and play that game because then you lose on positioning
Just played against them and man are regular sorcerers underrated that being untargetable is rough, same with the 0 out damage and use a cp for free with cabal points. the only real mistake my opponent playing them made was having ahriman in a unit of rubic with a sorcerer too
I must confess that the Psychic phase was never my forte in 9e, but I found this video very insightful and I’m looking forward to testing out what I’ve learned with my new Thousand Sons army. I just started this new army and reached 2000 points incredibly quickly (and relatively cheaply). I already owned a TS Boarding Patrol that I had originally bought in the Spring to add Rubric Marines to my Black Legion army, and the third Chaos Spawn I needed for the Blood Tithe bonus for 9e World Eaters (10e rendered that obsolete). I bought the TS Combat Patrol, Magnus, Ahriman, 3 Exalted Sorcerers, 5 more Scarab Occult Terminators, and I miraculously found a second TS BP box! I decided to convert an unused Sorcerer in Terminator Armour from my Black Legion collection to Thousand Sons as leader of the Scarab Terms, and I had a spare Forgefiend that I’ll also convert. With 40 Rubric Marines, my Thousand Sons army isn’t as diverse as my Black Legion or even my World Eaters army, but it looks amazing!
Yeah that's one of the big weaknesses of the Thousand Sons army : diversity. The actual model range is made of 6 boxes, 4 of which being characters. The rest is just filler so that you don't solely rely on Rubrics and Scarab Occults. I hope that Codex TS will bring another infantry unit that's not mutant or cultist.
they were my first army 2,5 years ago (woowww time flies). YSK they are a pain to paint, but dont really require much skill to make them beautiful. its like a coloring book. as long as you pick out all the trim theyll be stunning. also the model range is tiny and thats probably not gonna change soon. atm i only play my tyranids because i completely destroyed my opponents in all 3 games i played with tsons so far. especially the turn dmg to 0 twice per phase on magnus just feels bad for the opponent.
Got my first game with them last week, truly fun to play, they feel brutal and tricky at the same time. I'm going to try a terminator heavy list with 3 5 man squads and no rubrics...
Love the cabal mechanic, but this really seems problematic unless you are playing a 2000 point game. 7 points isn't going to get you very far. Without that you are just another space marine chapter.
I'm admittedly not a great 40k player, but my friend is, and next week I get to watch him take Magnus and my Thousand Sons for a spin. Stoked to see them do well.
Mutaliths being ~£150 each on ebay kind of makes their data card irrelevant :P Although I guess if you have some gathering dust somewhere nows the time to cash in.
A Psychophage makes for a decent proxy. It's got tentacles, claws, and three "cannons" for WYSIWYG. Just add a few charm bracelets for bling and paint it up tzeentch'y.
I plan on using a forgefiend magnets and random bits to make a demon engines one. mostly I don't trust gw to not get rid of the mutalith when the codex comes out as it was a super unloved model and is only used by two factions and barely used by either until recently.
You had to use them in 8th if you wanted to play tsons. They were okay back then to alpha strike and wrap tough targets. Conga line was still a thing back then
So i bought a squad rubrics and magnus because I love the models and started to think about playing the table top game. Would you guys go on with another squad rubrics and two squads of Tzangors or would you go with scarab occult terminators or smth else?
long-awaited! gosh i do hate the new 7e cults though, i hope the codex ditches them and doesn't build all the detachments around them... "cult of magic." yeah, it's called the Thousand Sons!
@@peterheinzo515 i said 7e. it was 7th edition that introduced the new "9 cults" and officially did away with the old 5 cults of prospero. i dislike them because they are unoriginal and don't really make much sense in the lore. cult of duplicity, cult of scheming, cult of manipulation? those three are all the same thing. prophecy and time? mutation and change? magic and knowledge? From a gameplay perspective, nine is simply too many to differentiate between in a fair/balanced way. In 7th, 8th, and 9th, there was always 1 good cult (duplicity), 1-2 decent cults (time and magic), and the other 6-7 all sucked and unequivocally were bad and weren't worth taking. in the old lore, having just 5 cults was easier to make unique and different and balance against each other. from a lore perspective, each actually meant something - your affinity for schools of psychic powers and, generally, your personality. these new cults don't represent anything but Tzeentch memes for the lulz. i would much rather we ditch the "Nine (Get It??? Tzeentch!!! lol!) Cults" and replace them with any type of legion organization that actually tells a story or has character or personality to it. I don't think GW will retcon the nine cults out of existence (though I'd love if they did), but I don't want each one of our 5 detachments to just be these boring cults. Give me Cult of Ahriman, Warpmeld Pact, Brotherhood of Dust, and Daemonologists instead, each filling a vastly different role and playstyle, not just three different flavors of lying...
Hey guys, need some advice for my rubrics. I finished my demons and started my old collection sons. I have 30 marines, and wanna play them cause i love the models. 20 have flamer, 5 have boltguns. Dont know how i should build the last 5. and should i play them as a 5er unit or 10er unit? Other stuff are 10 termis+leader, ahriman, Magnus, Vortex and sourcerer as well. thx for help. :)
Destined by fate is hilarious as a strategem tho, imagine your enemy is ballsy enough to field a Falchion or something like that and you just go 'nope'
you can take 2 ectoplasma cannons in place of the 2 hades autocannons it normally has, which is each d3 [BLAST], so it adds 1 to the result for every model in the enemy unit; if the enemy unit has 20 models, it will get +4 attacks for *each* of those Blasts (i.e. d3+4, d3+4, d3+4) which is +12 attacks
Interesting you say Warp Flamers are the better option on Rubrics, in the tournament lists I've seen do well they seem to take a unit of Warp Flamers led by Ahriman and the remaining units all take the Inferno Bolters. May just be that existing TSons players had Bolter Rubrics built, but would like to keen an eye on that as I've got an unopened Boarding Patrol with two more squads to make.
You really want a mix. Flamers on their own put out more firepower and are great with Ahriman if not a little fragile for their pts. They're ideal overwatch units also. The Bolters can be another good target to make psychic weapons and stack buffs on (Often 10 with the Infernal master) and for small 5 man back field units they're better with bolters since they often won't be in range of thing at 12". So far I own 10 flamer and 20 bolter Rubrics, i could see myself getting more flamers in the future for options but for the most part I have enough in my collection and tend to run 25-30 of what i've got.
I've done the math, even with Ensorcelled Infusion the Rubric do just about the same damage with the bolters as the warpflamers with no strat. The advantage of the bolters is range which must be relevant. Maybe a majority of opponents are playing ranged and you need the extra 12" to actually hit or maybe if you let melee armies get to close, the Rubricae are just getting slaughtered. Haven't played enough to know yet
Probably just the case that whilst warpflamers do more damage they have to get within 12'' which isn't easy, especially as you dont want to take Rhinos and only one leader can take Umbralefic crystal enhancement. A few 5 man Rubric squads can do long ranged damage, and get a free soulreaper cannon each. Plus they generate a cabal point each taken as small 5man squads. I guess another argument is that if you just want some bodyguards for a sorceror or infernal master then a 5man bolter squad is a bit more all purpose.
Actually pissed I had bought 2 leviathans right before the info that they were going to ledgends was released. Actually wasted $160 on shit I can't even use anymore
raw yes, but some tournaments ruled it differently, they made it so 1 unit can never shoot overwatch twice with the same unit for any reason. so you can do it but not on the same unit. also you have to declare it at the start of the phase
Just a pair of corrections: 11:00 You can't use Destined By Fate on Mutalith Vortex Beasts or Vehicles since they all lack the PSYKER keyword. 13:30 You can't use Warpsight to fire Indirectly with a whole Scarab unit. The stratagem affects Psyker models(so just the Aspiring Sorcerer and any attached Terminator Sorcerer), not units. Also not so much a technical correction, but Infernal Masters are incredibly popular in Tsons armies. You see more of them in lists than Exalted Sorcerers normally. Not only is the 2d6 auto-hits less of a casino-cannon than the Exalted(with his d6 shots at d3 damage -Necron players literally spent all of 9th edition complaining about their Doomsday Cannon with a similar utterly random profile!) but his Overwatch is great, and while his personal 6 rule isn't amazing, it still forces through a decent number of MWs over the course of a game(especially in melee and/or with Arcane Vortex). He's also among the cheapest source of Cabal Point generation you can get at 37.5pts per Cabal Point which is a huge upside in an army which often feels like it's struggling to get enough CP to fuel it's army rule beyond Turns 1-2. The only real issue I'm having with Tsons in 10th from an enjoyment standpoint is the Cabal Point system. Rather than a rule that rewards you for playing the faction, it feels an obstacle that you as a Tsons player have to try hard to overcome. -Took a unit that doesn't generate Cabal Points? Get punished with less Cabal Points! -Put a unit in a Transport? Get punished with less Cabal Points! -Put a unit in Reserve? Get punished with less Cabal Points! -Use your flying Daemon Princes special teleport rule or the Umbralefic Crystal? Get punished with less Cabal Points! -Lose units during the course of the game? Get punished with less Cabal Points! Of all the army rules in 10th edition, I don't think any are as punitive and/or restrictive to list design as Cabal Points. 🤷♂
I am not a fan of the infernal master, the exalted sorcerer improving invulnerable saves and having better range helps, the regular sorcerers grant lethal hits. upside the crystal dosen't effect your cabal points, but the rest do. it would be nice if at least being in a vehicle didn't ruin it.
@@valwenventureco9285 Can I get some clarification as to why the Crystal doesn't affect your Cabal Points? As far as I can tell, the Crystal is a rule that triggers in the Command Phase meaning you need to use it in part 1 of your Command Phase(the part before Battle Shock, more specifically the part where you gain a CP and "resolve any other Command Phase rules" as per the Core Rulebook). And as per the rules glossary, since Cabal Point generation happens at the [end] of your Command Phase, it falls under the rules for "Rules Used at the End of the Command Phase" on page 13 and therefore happens at the end of the Battle-Shock step(aka part 2 of the Command Phase). So since units needs to be on the table for part 2 of the Command Phase to generate CP and the Crystal moves your unit off-table in part 1 of the Command Phase, how would the unit qualify to generate Cabal Points? Also, a nitpick: but what do you mean Exalted Sorcerers have better range? Astral Blast is 18". Screamer Invocation is also 18". They've the same range no?
You say that none are as restrictive to a list as cabal points but the astra militarum suffers the same if not worse with their order system. Seeing as you have to take enough officers to give orders to your units to allow them to function all the while struggling with the fact battle shock can cuck you out of them. the orders system has the same effects as what you listed with cabal points but also short of lord solar or a tank commander your orders only work on half your army.
I’m just getting into Thousand Sons and I gotta admit that I am scared of wasting my money in buying them and just getting tabled because they seem to be lacking on defensive stats
Are you sure the Umbralefic Crystal can let you Alpha Strike turn 1? I thought it places units into reserves and then they are restricted by the Deep Strike rule of not until turn 2.
@@ethankopiness3915 it does put them in reserves.. but i think you can play them right after, since this happens during the command phase "Thousand Sons model only. Once per battle, in your Command phase, you can remove the bearer’s unit from the battlefield. If you do, in the Reinforcements step of your next Movement phase, set that unit back up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" horizontally away from all enemy models."
you only cannot take armor saves after that. so a flamer unit with ahriman can wound a tank on 5s, rerolling and the tank doesnt get a save. 10 flamer rubrics can really melt a leman russ
With the TS Hellbrute within 9 inches of 2 psykers, one with Lotd of Forbidden Lore, you can use Weaver of Fates 4 times with 5 Cabal points, twice in the enemy shooting phase, and twice in the enemy charge phase, due to the HB refund
and since you can use the weaver reroll on anyone in range you can reroll two saves per phase and if you have a single big target like magnus you can got him with a free strat and reduce damage to zero twice in one phase.
yeah thats just too much. my poor opponent playing guard shot a rogal dorn, 3 russes and all his heavy weapons teams at magnus and he wasnt even bracketed.
Hey Auspex I have seen rumblings of putting Arcane vortex on an infernal master. Using the Screamers invocation focused witchfire you get 2D6 attacks S7 AP-2 2D. He can also his glimpse of fate ability to put out mortal wounds if you choose devastating wounds.
I think you could argue, that the ritual Twist of fate also disables the invulnable save, as it states that the armour savinf throws cannot be done. By that I think the entier dice throw connecting to the armour save is to be jumped over and as the invulnable save is a modification on the armour save it is jumped as well. The German version of the spell also states the throw as well. I'm a bit unsure about it and maybe I have missunderstod something there.
@@peterheinzo515 No worries, I havened played with the tousand sons in 10th yet (my army is still a bit small). My Necrons did see some action in two very nice games.
Hot and quite frankly, bad takes when discussing infernal master. Outside of Ahriman they're the most efficient cabal points per point. Arcane vortex on him completely changes the attack too, now it's two guaranteed mortal wounds, able to reroll on objectives to fish for 2 mortal wounds on sixes. This guy with the upgrade alone can wipe entire squads in overwatch, incredibly easily and reliably if they dare to step on an objective.
That's fair, thanks for the counterpoint. I had a look through top placing thousand sons lists and the vast majority decided to run him. Fully agree his flamer does look good on paper.
@@auspextactics kudos to you for taking it on board and doing the research! To be fair too, it's one of those thousand sons combo that are buffs layered on top of buffs, and might not seem obvious until you actually see it on the tabletop. But when you do... it's devastating
Ahh I'm gutted. I misread the infernal master Glimpse of Eternity, thinking you could use it anywhere in your army like an eldar fate die, that's how it worked in 9th. Darn, I'm really gonna miss using that guy :/ cos without that, yeah he's kinda useless.
if you pay the points to make his flamer D2 hes quite fun. not great, but okay. i always include ahriman and 1 terminator sorc, usually 1 exalted on foot and then either a regular sorcerer or an infernal master, depending on points
@@peterheinzo515 Yeah that was my thinking. Cos a 2d6 7 -1 2 flamer is pretty nutty xD BUT I could also just replace that with like a disk sorcerer who also has a flamer attack, and gives the unit a 4+ invln AND has that movement reduction ability for enemies. It's just a real shame, but yeah I still might run him from time to time just cos the big flamer is funi and I have a kitbashed mini for mine
16:30 REPOSITIONED UNITS (Rules that are triggered by or apply to Reserves units or units that are ‘set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements’ are also triggered by and apply to a repositioned unit when it is set back up.) still a great rule but I dont think you can come in turn one
I just wish Psykers weren't so completely dull this edition. Having arbitrarily prescribed powers strips a lot of utility, especially with every unit in the game getting a special rule now anyway.
Still wouldn't call Magnus auto-include, he's too big of a target so you rarely have him where you need him unless you're trading units and expect him to die next turn. You're better off running 3 forgefiends instead. The detachment rule sucks too.
oh no, I would call Magnus auto include. And I am a nearly 100% Thousand Sons player. He just pulls his weight and then some. The real issue is finding other solid high strength firepower that also generates cabal points
I don’t know how to use him and it’s really frustrating. He often gets shot of the bored and his damage out put I find woeful. I had him in melee and he couldn’t kill a single wulfen. In twi games he’s been in melee for me he’s rolled x7 Dice with sustained hits needing 2+ to hit and 2+ to wound and I only managed to wound once. Every d3 attack I roll a one. In all the games I’ve used him he’s barely inflicted 5 wounds before dying. But I just used a forgefiend and in 15 hit rolls I rolled 5 1s
CORRECTIONS:
- As a few of you have mentioned, I believe that Warp Sight doesn't actually allow the Rubrics/Scarabs to shoot out of line of sight as the tags specifically call out the aspiring sorcerer as having the tag, not the rubrics themselves. I don't THINK this changes even if they're joined by a psyker leader, but please let me know if I'm mistaken!
- I also said the Mutalith Beast can use destined by fate to cancel a save, it can't as it's not a psyker.
You are correct the Maulerfiend also has a 42 dmg potential attack with free heroic intervention
"Model" and "unit" are indeed different words
Worth mentioning that you can take the arcane vortex on the DP for D2 & D4 attacks since his melee is a psychic weapon. Doesn't make the model good but it is fun. Per point though the buffed damage output of 10 Rubrics with InfM is better than 10 Scarabs with the Termie Sorc and if you can't get into rapid fire range you deal about the same amount of damage (assuming both are fishing for MWs). More fragile bodies however. So far InfM has been a staple in most my lists and his auto 6 has been so clutch for saves or damage/wounds. Killed a melee Wardog with the aspiring Sorc in combat after getting charged.
Warp Sight honestly does not seen worth 2 CP
@@christyrann7739 but it is worth it for a free strat with cabal pts ;)
Ahirman: I hate dust, its rough course and made up of my brothers
And it gets EVERYWHERE!
@@sneakybeak4032actually it stays perfectly in the suits of the fallen due to there airtight nature 🤓
@@epicrabid1857and when it gets damaged
@@sneakybeak4032except for Black library :D
@@riven5677 well crap.
Its a little known piece of the lore that Thousand Son Apothecaries are issued a vacuum cleaner as part of their medical equipment.
I call mine my Rubric Reclaimer
Thousand Sons are finally doing well, and have been a rather fun army to play. Hopefully we’ll get a good codex to be happy with!
Honestly surprising, I expected the complete opposite after the put psychic powers to the firing line
This was the favorite army of the late Johnathan "TotalBiscuit" Bain. RIP.
i will never get to hear the words, "im totalbiscuit and im here to ask the question, WTF is Warhammer 40k Mechanicus" or Battle Sector or Boltgun
@@fernandozavaletabustos205
Just yesterday i played them for my first game of 10th (1k points, 15 rubrics, 1 disc sorc, 5 termies, 20 tzaangors and 1 hellbrute) against necrons (basically the indomitus box crons with a few changes here and there). It wasnt a fair fight, and i kinda felt bad for my oponent. The moment i managed to take down the reanimator, his army just crumbled. Doombolt did some goddamn great damage, and both flamers and termies are crazy powerful if properly positioned
I think the infernal master is seriously underrated. With arcane vortex, he's one of the most lethal HQs in the army. He's also the most cost-effective means of getting cabal points and hia auto six on a wound can generate alot of mortal wounds in melee
He pumping out content like nothing. Truly a godsend
*Gods-sent.
28:26 One thing about the Tzaangor Shaman @60 points it is the cheapest unit that gives you a Cabal Point, which is a significant consideration
an Infernal master is 15pts more expensive and gives 2 cabal points. so idk if shaman is worth it for Cabal point purposes
for cabal points only magnus is worst points for points than the shaman. his only real use is to turn a max size squad of tzangor into a better but more expensive unit.
@@echo_ironside8006 Well I kinda meant on top of making the Tzaangor units better
the shaman is so good with a unit of 6 enlightened with the +1 to hit and FNP.
Goat-bird people. Half goat, half bird, half people.
150% awesome
One thing to note is that Warp Sight specifies psyker models which means only the sorcerers themselves would benefit from it, not their squad of rubricae
Units led by Psyker models inherit the Psyker keyword from it.
@@jordanstrunk120 units do, models do not
@@jordanstrunk120 yeah they get Fly keyword if a Disc sorcerer joins them but it doesnt mean they fly. Some people are making this army better than it is capable of being. Like shooting Psychic boltguns out of LOS.
@@Phosis9but this is something that you can do with Strats
@@Phosis9 You can though. It's not one of the best stratagems we have, but it's pretty useful when needed lol
Arcane Vortex on a normal sorc is quite powerful. For a cost of 15 points it will kill >2 marines per Fires of the Abyss. If you get of a single Fires of the Abyss it wil (almost)l always repay its cost.
i love it on the infernal master. i use his auto 6 on number of shots with his psychic torrent. best flamer in the game.
Don’t think you can indirect a 10 man terms cuz the regular homies aren’t psykers
Probably the most fun sounding faction in 10e!
You can not give terminators the warpsight stratagem because it only affects psyker models which is only the scarab occult Terminator sorcerer.
And the aspiring sorceror
The big negative of Arhiman on disc is gaining the fly keyword which leaves him vulnerable to anti-fly
Very few people are going out of their way to get anti-fly. Primarily because NOBODY runs aircraft, but also because since Fly no longer just ignores terrain, there's very little reason to go out of your way to punish it.
True enough but i wonder if people should bring some considering all of elders vehicles are flying. Probably not since most anti fly is only ap1 and don’t out compete lascannons or anything like that.
anti fly also kills jump packs and tau suits.
the things that have anti-fly usually wound T4 models on a 2+ anyways
Warp sight doesn't work on terminators. The stratagem says psyker model. So only would affect the sargent or the character
You may add them the sorcerer in terminator armor and he will share his psyker keyword with them
@@gillesmelet1044Still doesn’t work, the unit is psyker, but the models are still not psyker,
@@Gw2Zoke please read Commentary Rules page 7 Keyword paragraph, on download section of Warhammer Community.
Yes the full unit gains Psyker keyword, this sample is explicitely given by GW rules designer
i think thats not how they intended this rule to work but it is what it is.
@@peterheinzo515 it's also bringing opportunities to the opponent : if they have antipsyker weapons they will hit the terminators more easily.
Up to each TS player to decide : keep termies alone and don't benefit from a nice mechanism but don't suffer from some kind of weapons or pay 105 points more for the contrary.
This is what we expect from a game : be free of using different options for a different cost, while trying to optimize our play to capitalize on strong points of our army while also trying to minimise the bad side effects
I'm so glad they're finally good. My first warhammer army way back in 2018.
inwould start 10 termies with leader on the board, and invest in the crystal. its definitely worth the points to get a few more cabal points turn 1, if you can afford it. then you can teleport them into place exactly where you need them.
My experience is that Thousand Sons scarab blob doesn’t hold up well to monster mash type lists. They also struggle to push enough damage into Custodes.
Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but I haven’t been able to keep them getting their points worth. And no, I won’t shove the entire army in 6” or Magnus to try and play that game because then you lose on positioning
Just played against them and man are regular sorcerers underrated that being untargetable is rough, same with the 0 out damage and use a cp for free with cabal points. the only real mistake my opponent playing them made was having ahriman in a unit of rubic with a sorcerer too
All of the characters are really good choices but yeah the standard sorceror with his 18" bubble is *really* good
I must confess that the Psychic phase was never my forte in 9e, but I found this video very insightful and I’m looking forward to testing out what I’ve learned with my new Thousand Sons army.
I just started this new army and reached 2000 points incredibly quickly (and relatively cheaply). I already owned a TS Boarding Patrol that I had originally bought in the Spring to add Rubric Marines to my Black Legion army, and the third Chaos Spawn I needed for the Blood Tithe bonus for 9e World Eaters (10e rendered that obsolete). I bought the TS Combat Patrol, Magnus, Ahriman, 3 Exalted Sorcerers, 5 more Scarab Occult Terminators, and I miraculously found a second TS BP box!
I decided to convert an unused Sorcerer in Terminator Armour from my Black Legion collection to Thousand Sons as leader of the Scarab Terms, and I had a spare Forgefiend that I’ll also convert. With 40 Rubric Marines, my Thousand Sons army isn’t as diverse as my Black Legion or even my World Eaters army, but it looks amazing!
i was lucky to get the old start collecting box, that was great value. 10 rubes, 10 tzaangors and ahriman for 60€
Yeah that's one of the big weaknesses of the Thousand Sons army : diversity. The actual model range is made of 6 boxes, 4 of which being characters. The rest is just filler so that you don't solely rely on Rubrics and Scarab Occults.
I hope that Codex TS will bring another infantry unit that's not mutant or cultist.
Thousand Sons sounds much better in 10e. I’m intrigued 🤔 maybe it’s time for another army…
they were my first army 2,5 years ago (woowww time flies). YSK they are a pain to paint, but dont really require much skill to make them beautiful. its like a coloring book. as long as you pick out all the trim theyll be stunning. also the model range is tiny and thats probably not gonna change soon. atm i only play my tyranids because i completely destroyed my opponents in all 3 games i played with tsons so far. especially the turn dmg to 0 twice per phase on magnus just feels bad for the opponent.
Same apart from I started very recently
Got my first game with them last week, truly fun to play, they feel brutal and tricky at the same time. I'm going to try a terminator heavy list with 3 5 man squads and no rubrics...
Maybe they'll fix the Death Guard too😢
Warp Sight only effects Psyker Models, not Psyker Units
Love the cabal mechanic, but this really seems problematic unless you are playing a 2000 point game. 7 points isn't going to get you very far. Without that you are just another space marine chapter.
I'm admittedly not a great 40k player, but my friend is, and next week I get to watch him take Magnus and my Thousand Sons for a spin. Stoked to see them do well.
Cast echos of the warp on Magnus
Then you can use Destined by Fate TWICE, once for free, to negate two saves? Wow that’s amazing
yes. and before that you can even reroll 2 saves (on for cabal points 1 for 1cp) if you have enough psykers in range of him
Making one for DG and Ad Mech should be easy. "Wait until the next edition" lol
Mutaliths being ~£150 each on ebay kind of makes their data card irrelevant :P Although I guess if you have some gathering dust somewhere nows the time to cash in.
A Psychophage makes for a decent proxy. It's got tentacles, claws, and three "cannons" for WYSIWYG. Just add a few charm bracelets for bling and paint it up tzeentch'y.
I plan on using a forgefiend magnets and random bits to make a demon engines one. mostly I don't trust gw to not get rid of the mutalith when the codex comes out as it was a super unloved model and is only used by two factions and barely used by either until recently.
cool guys owned the mvb when it was still trash.
whose paying 150 for them an not just buying from GW or element games for 55? :S:S:S
Tzangors are viable? Now I've seen everything
only until someone looks at them and they die.
@@valwenventureco9285 haha, fair enough
You had to use them in 8th if you wanted to play tsons. They were okay back then to alpha strike and wrap tough targets. Conga line was still a thing back then
Now if only GW would restock the Mutalith…
I ordered mine instantly when I saw the Index, apparently that was fast enough :D.
That’s what you metaslaves get :) or rather don’t HAHA
War Dogs: "First time?"
Finally...
Its been 1000 years...
So i bought a squad rubrics and magnus because I love the models and started to think about playing the table top game. Would you guys go on with another squad rubrics and two squads of Tzangors or would you go with scarab occult terminators or smth else?
Could you cover potential allies for TS?
"Killer queen has already touched the notification of this video!"
You should do an Aeldari unit tier list soon!
This was the favorite army of the late Johnathan "TotalBiscuit" Bain. RIP.
long-awaited! gosh i do hate the new 7e cults though, i hope the codex ditches them and doesn't build all the detachments around them... "cult of magic." yeah, it's called the Thousand Sons!
why? the cults existed last edition too? i bet my MVB there will be 9 cults again in the codex.
@@peterheinzo515 i said 7e. it was 7th edition that introduced the new "9 cults" and officially did away with the old 5 cults of prospero.
i dislike them because they are unoriginal and don't really make much sense in the lore. cult of duplicity, cult of scheming, cult of manipulation? those three are all the same thing. prophecy and time? mutation and change? magic and knowledge? From a gameplay perspective, nine is simply too many to differentiate between in a fair/balanced way. In 7th, 8th, and 9th, there was always 1 good cult (duplicity), 1-2 decent cults (time and magic), and the other 6-7 all sucked and unequivocally were bad and weren't worth taking.
in the old lore, having just 5 cults was easier to make unique and different and balance against each other. from a lore perspective, each actually meant something - your affinity for schools of psychic powers and, generally, your personality. these new cults don't represent anything but Tzeentch memes for the lulz.
i would much rather we ditch the "Nine (Get It??? Tzeentch!!! lol!) Cults" and replace them with any type of legion organization that actually tells a story or has character or personality to it. I don't think GW will retcon the nine cults out of existence (though I'd love if they did), but I don't want each one of our 5 detachments to just be these boring cults. Give me Cult of Ahriman, Warpmeld Pact, Brotherhood of Dust, and Daemonologists instead, each filling a vastly different role and playstyle, not just three different flavors of lying...
@@Reliken i am reliken and i would rather have less options, thats why i am mad.
Sounds like I got into these guys just in time
Arcane Vortex would make the demon prince's melee quite frightening...
the big thing is pushing there sweep into killing marines in one failed save and there strike takes out even light characters in one with damage 4.
Auspex what faction do you play?
Hey guys, need some advice for my rubrics. I finished my demons and started my old collection sons. I have 30 marines, and wanna play them cause i love the models. 20 have flamer, 5 have boltguns. Dont know how i should build the last 5. and should i play them as a 5er unit or 10er unit?
Other stuff are 10 termis+leader, ahriman, Magnus, Vortex and sourcerer as well.
thx for help. :)
Destined by fate is hilarious as a strategem tho, imagine your enemy is ballsy enough to field a Falchion or something like that and you just go 'nope'
55:21 Is there any reason you couldn't use your Sorcerer's psychic ranged attacks with the Firing Deck?
I don’t know of a reason why you can’t
you can.
you can, but dont want to since you dont get cabal points for sorcerers in transports
How would y’all build the marines? Half bolters, half flamers? Maybe a few 5 man squads of flamers almost like 30k support squads?
Most people I've seen so 1 maybe 2 Flamer bricks and the rest bolters
more flamers than bolters. flamers do much more damage and are bomb at overwatch.
38:07 you can do it on the melee hit and get d3 mortals. Not a huge deal but i did it once in my 5 games
What about LoC (Lord of Change) how good is he in 2k list? (With magnus, ahriman amd some scarabs + rubrics) :)
Wait why or how would the forgefiend get +12 attacks?
you can take 2 ectoplasma cannons in place of the 2 hades autocannons it normally has, which is each d3 [BLAST], so it adds 1 to the result for every model in the enemy unit; if the enemy unit has 20 models, it will get +4 attacks for *each* of those Blasts (i.e. d3+4, d3+4, d3+4) which is +12 attacks
@@RagnellAvalon Ah i didn't know that blast procs for each gun.
@@Hazardous-Sheep yeah, if you have multiple weapons with blast profiles they all go off, so you can get really bananas stuff like this
Interesting you say Warp Flamers are the better option on Rubrics, in the tournament lists I've seen do well they seem to take a unit of Warp Flamers led by Ahriman and the remaining units all take the Inferno Bolters. May just be that existing TSons players had Bolter Rubrics built, but would like to keen an eye on that as I've got an unopened Boarding Patrol with two more squads to make.
You really want a mix. Flamers on their own put out more firepower and are great with Ahriman if not a little fragile for their pts. They're ideal overwatch units also. The Bolters can be another good target to make psychic weapons and stack buffs on (Often 10 with the Infernal master) and for small 5 man back field units they're better with bolters since they often won't be in range of thing at 12". So far I own 10 flamer and 20 bolter Rubrics, i could see myself getting more flamers in the future for options but for the most part I have enough in my collection and tend to run 25-30 of what i've got.
I've done the math, even with Ensorcelled Infusion the Rubric do just about the same damage with the bolters as the warpflamers with no strat. The advantage of the bolters is range which must be relevant. Maybe a majority of opponents are playing ranged and you need the extra 12" to actually hit or maybe if you let melee armies get to close, the Rubricae are just getting slaughtered. Haven't played enough to know yet
Probably just the case that whilst warpflamers do more damage they have to get within 12'' which isn't easy, especially as you dont want to take Rhinos and only one leader can take Umbralefic crystal enhancement. A few 5 man Rubric squads can do long ranged damage, and get a free soulreaper cannon each. Plus they generate a cabal point each taken as small 5man squads. I guess another argument is that if you just want some bodyguards for a sorceror or infernal master then a 5man bolter squad is a bit more all purpose.
imo the flamers are so good. i only get 1 5man unit with bolter/src with a normal sorc. attached to hold home objective.
So is the 0CP Cabal ability also restricted to Battle Tactics like the rest?
By far my favorite faction cause my favorite character is in this (Ahriman). ALLL IS DUST!
All is dust, my brethren
This video would drop right when the Court of the Crimson King box set gets back in stock on Amazon....I'm about to make a dumb financial decision...
Actually pissed I had bought 2 leviathans right before the info that they were going to ledgends was released. Actually wasted $160 on shit I can't even use anymore
Where do I find the Thousand Sons Sorcerer & Sorcerer in Terminator Armor models? I can only find the Exalted Sorcerers.
They don’t exist. Terminator one is a conversion using scarab and generic csm terminator lord
Can you use echoes from the warp for the overwatch stratagem? In combination with the flamers that looks really powerful.
raw yes, but some tournaments ruled it differently, they made it so 1 unit can never shoot overwatch twice with the same unit for any reason. so you can do it but not on the same unit. also you have to declare it at the start of the phase
Just a pair of corrections:
11:00 You can't use Destined By Fate on Mutalith Vortex Beasts or Vehicles since they all lack the PSYKER keyword.
13:30 You can't use Warpsight to fire Indirectly with a whole Scarab unit. The stratagem affects Psyker models(so just the Aspiring Sorcerer and any attached Terminator Sorcerer), not units.
Also not so much a technical correction, but Infernal Masters are incredibly popular in Tsons armies. You see more of them in lists than Exalted Sorcerers normally. Not only is the 2d6 auto-hits less of a casino-cannon than the Exalted(with his d6 shots at d3 damage -Necron players literally spent all of 9th edition complaining about their Doomsday Cannon with a similar utterly random profile!) but his Overwatch is great, and while his personal 6 rule isn't amazing, it still forces through a decent number of MWs over the course of a game(especially in melee and/or with Arcane Vortex). He's also among the cheapest source of Cabal Point generation you can get at 37.5pts per Cabal Point which is a huge upside in an army which often feels like it's struggling to get enough CP to fuel it's army rule beyond Turns 1-2.
The only real issue I'm having with Tsons in 10th from an enjoyment standpoint is the Cabal Point system. Rather than a rule that rewards you for playing the faction, it feels an obstacle that you as a Tsons player have to try hard to overcome.
-Took a unit that doesn't generate Cabal Points? Get punished with less Cabal Points!
-Put a unit in a Transport? Get punished with less Cabal Points!
-Put a unit in Reserve? Get punished with less Cabal Points!
-Use your flying Daemon Princes special teleport rule or the Umbralefic Crystal? Get punished with less Cabal Points!
-Lose units during the course of the game? Get punished with less Cabal Points!
Of all the army rules in 10th edition, I don't think any are as punitive and/or restrictive to list design as Cabal Points. 🤷♂
Thanks for the carefully explained insights, much appreciated. Will add them to a pinned correction above :)
I am not a fan of the infernal master, the exalted sorcerer improving invulnerable saves and having better range helps, the regular sorcerers grant
lethal hits.
upside the crystal dosen't effect your cabal points, but the rest do. it would be nice if at least being in a vehicle didn't ruin it.
@@valwenventureco9285 Can I get some clarification as to why the Crystal doesn't affect your Cabal Points? As far as I can tell, the Crystal is a rule that triggers in the Command Phase meaning you need to use it in part 1 of your Command Phase(the part before Battle Shock, more specifically the part where you gain a CP and "resolve any other Command Phase rules" as per the Core Rulebook).
And as per the rules glossary, since Cabal Point generation happens at the [end] of your Command Phase, it falls under the rules for "Rules Used at the End of the Command Phase" on page 13 and therefore happens at the end of the Battle-Shock step(aka part 2 of the Command Phase).
So since units needs to be on the table for part 2 of the Command Phase to generate CP and the Crystal moves your unit off-table in part 1 of the Command Phase, how would the unit qualify to generate Cabal Points?
Also, a nitpick: but what do you mean Exalted Sorcerers have better range? Astral Blast is 18". Screamer Invocation is also 18". They've the same range no?
You say that none are as restrictive to a list as cabal points but the astra militarum suffers the same if not worse with their order system. Seeing as you have to take enough officers to give orders to your units to allow them to function all the while struggling with the fact battle shock can cuck you out of them. the orders system has the same effects as what you listed with cabal points but also short of lord solar or a tank commander your orders only work on half your army.
correction the crystal is awful as well.
I’m just getting into Thousand Sons and I gotta admit that I am scared of wasting my money in buying them and just getting tabled because they seem to be lacking on defensive stats
Arcane vortex on TS Daemon prince with wings
Wait the psyker phase is gone entirely?
Are you sure the Umbralefic Crystal can let you Alpha Strike turn 1? I thought it places units into reserves and then they are restricted by the Deep Strike rule of not until turn 2.
I was at a Warhammer tournament and there was no issue with doing it turn 1
It doesnt put them in reserves
@@ethankopiness3915 it does put them in reserves.. but i think you can play them right after, since this happens during the command phase
"Thousand Sons model only. Once per battle, in your
Command phase, you can remove the bearer’s unit
from the battlefield. If you do, in the Reinforcements
step of your next Movement phase, set that unit back
up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9"
horizontally away from all enemy models."
@TauEnjoyer you quoted the ability not saying they go in reserves to try and say they go in reserves? Odd choice
haha, you can use the crystal to tp them into reserves but you dont have to.
Twist of Fate does not ignore an Invul-save? I can understand FNP since that is not an armour save but Invul? Can any T-Sons player confirm?
I've been told that Invul is not an armor save, so it doesnt negate invuls
@@w4iph Thank you. Guess my necrons wont die extremly hard against my friend then. Or atleast not as hard as they did
you only cannot take armor saves after that. so a flamer unit with ahriman can wound a tank on 5s, rerolling and the tank doesnt get a save. 10 flamer rubrics can really melt a leman russ
My play group has been treating ToF as not impacting invulns
With the TS Hellbrute within 9 inches of 2 psykers, one with Lotd of Forbidden Lore, you can use Weaver of Fates 4 times with 5 Cabal points, twice in the enemy shooting phase, and twice in the enemy charge phase, due to the HB refund
and since you can use the weaver reroll on anyone in range you can reroll two saves per phase and if you have a single big target like magnus you can got him with a free strat and reduce damage to zero twice in one phase.
yeah thats just too much. my poor opponent playing guard shot a rogal dorn, 3 russes and all his heavy weapons teams at magnus and he wasnt even bracketed.
Hey Auspex I have seen rumblings of putting Arcane vortex on an infernal master. Using the Screamers invocation focused witchfire you get 2D6 attacks S7 AP-2 2D. He can also his glimpse of fate ability to put out mortal wounds if you choose devastating wounds.
Space wolves next? 😅
Lol
ALL IS DUST 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
WE MAKING IT OUTTA THE COMBAT PATROL WITH THIS ONE 💯💯🔥🔥
i was expecting you to get to the cultists line and just say "...just don't. These shouldn't be here."
I think you could argue, that the ritual Twist of fate also disables the invulnable save, as it states that the armour savinf throws cannot be done. By that I think the entier dice throw connecting to the armour save is to be jumped over and as the invulnable save is a modification on the armour save it is jumped as well. The German version of the spell also states the throw as well. I'm a bit unsure about it and maybe I have missunderstod something there.
Invulnerable save and armor save are Two different things though.
It’s not a modification, it is instead of.
your poor opponents… you misplayed that.
@@peterheinzo515 No worries, I havened played with the tousand sons in 10th yet (my army is still a bit small). My Necrons did see some action in two very nice games.
Hot and quite frankly, bad takes when discussing infernal master. Outside of Ahriman they're the most efficient cabal points per point. Arcane vortex on him completely changes the attack too, now it's two guaranteed mortal wounds, able to reroll on objectives to fish for 2 mortal wounds on sixes.
This guy with the upgrade alone can wipe entire squads in overwatch, incredibly easily and reliably if they dare to step on an objective.
That's fair, thanks for the counterpoint. I had a look through top placing thousand sons lists and the vast majority decided to run him. Fully agree his flamer does look good on paper.
@@auspextactics kudos to you for taking it on board and doing the research!
To be fair too, it's one of those thousand sons combo that are buffs layered on top of buffs, and might not seem obvious until you actually see it on the tabletop. But when you do... it's devastating
Ahh I'm gutted. I misread the infernal master Glimpse of Eternity, thinking you could use it anywhere in your army like an eldar fate die, that's how it worked in 9th. Darn, I'm really gonna miss using that guy :/ cos without that, yeah he's kinda useless.
if you pay the points to make his flamer D2 hes quite fun. not great, but okay. i always include ahriman and 1 terminator sorc, usually 1 exalted on foot and then either a regular sorcerer or an infernal master, depending on points
@@peterheinzo515 Yeah that was my thinking. Cos a 2d6 7 -1 2 flamer is pretty nutty xD BUT I could also just replace that with like a disk sorcerer who also has a flamer attack, and gives the unit a 4+ invln AND has that movement reduction ability for enemies.
It's just a real shame, but yeah I still might run him from time to time just cos the big flamer is funi and I have a kitbashed mini for mine
I think TS are so strong rn that their codex will reduce their power at least by a little bit.
Add a comment...🎉
Tzeetch will's it 😅
16:30 REPOSITIONED UNITS (Rules that are triggered by or apply to Reserves units or units that are ‘set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements’ are also triggered by and apply to a repositioned unit when it is set back up.) still a great rule but I dont think you can come in turn one
Still don’t like the changes. We are way better but so boring now. Magic fingerguns just isn’t fun.
Amen
Shadow wizard money gang.
I just wish Psykers weren't so completely dull this edition. Having arbitrarily prescribed powers strips a lot of utility, especially with every unit in the game getting a special rule now anyway.
2nd??
👍
It's getting dusty in here.....
first :D
EVEN YOU think that Tsons can fire their bolters Indirect. Smh. Do u even read bro? Warp Sight says PSYKER MODEL
Amazing how every single TH-cam channel has made this mistake. Boggles the mind
im pretty sure thats what they intended the strat to do though. becaus RAW it’s completely useless.
@@peterheinzo515 I'm pretty sure it is written as intended.
Still wouldn't call Magnus auto-include, he's too big of a target so you rarely have him where you need him unless you're trading units and expect him to die next turn. You're better off running 3 forgefiends instead. The detachment rule sucks too.
oh no, I would call Magnus auto include. And I am a nearly 100% Thousand Sons player. He just pulls his weight and then some. The real issue is finding other solid high strength firepower that also generates cabal points
@@timunderbakke8756 It's maybe because I've only played him into Necrons so far, but he doesn't punch hard enough for the points cost.
I don’t know how to use him and it’s really frustrating. He often gets shot of the bored and his damage out put I find woeful. I had him in melee and he couldn’t kill a single wulfen. In twi games he’s been in melee for me he’s rolled x7 Dice with sustained hits needing 2+ to hit and 2+ to wound and I only managed to wound once. Every d3 attack I roll a one. In all the games I’ve used him he’s barely inflicted 5 wounds before dying. But I just used a forgefiend and in 15 hit rolls I rolled 5 1s