I do believe that we've gotten better as players but the power creep is undeniable. I remember having to do the Proving Grounds GM a number of times before a clear. But one day, pre-nerf Loreley came upon us and I cleared it on my first try when GMs opened up that season.
Most players who do GM’s are becoming faster and better at them, again though, the percentage players that play and do GM’s and struggle to the people that role through them is still a huge difference. Kingsfall had 48k players finish day one or something and the average player base is in the millions, and daily player base is 800k give or take. The percentage is still less than 10% of players getting these things done in this way. Trying to reduce that number even further down to the Last wish days were two teams finished on day 1 and the original conqueror seal being a less than 1% success rate isn’t viable for the bigger picture.
@@ThatFletcherGuy. Day 1s are different though. I wouldn't even dare do it that day just because I'm not that hardcore. And that's fine with me. I like the idea of honoring people's dedication to the game if they so choose to spend ungodly hours in it just to be good enough to do day 1s.
@@Saltagreppo you have a lot of value to the community as a whole, these vids are a piece of that value. especially the way you explain your thoughts the whole way through and be honest about your opinion
1:29 he really spent 5 seconds reading chat instead of throwing a storm nade and still got the wr lol. What a beast Edit its not the wr, just an insanely good run
They really don’t value my tweet more than others, especially if it’s something so trivial. No offense but I can’t be used as a tweet machine XD. I will tweet about things I believe are important. You can use the forums or tweet this yourself🙂
Gms in season ten we're way harder, if I remember correctly. It might be Survivorship bias, where I just feel it's easier because I now know what to expect from gms
@@izanagisburden9465 pretty much no different nades kill or thunderlord exact same plus the arc buddies and healing rift Titan doesn't have much passive healing seems more strong to me
Pure example of power creep. I hope in Lightfall bungie find a way to make GM's and Endgame content harder and more interesting to play, without thinking: "Make it harder by adding champions"
GM it is still pretty hard, bro... 95% of players can't get through without several or dozen of tries. This power creep BS only come out of sweaties like this youtuber.
I have a take on the game getting easier. First, yes, it definitely is. But I do think we have some outliers as well. There is a reason why many streamers are completing these GMs solos with arc titans, but not arc warlocks. People will be pissed off for me saying this, but both HOIL and storm grenades for titans are anomalies right now that will have to be amended somehow (not unlike Loreley, which was also an anomaly). I would say it’s more important to address HOIL. But anyway, about the extra damage resistance, I don’t think it breaks the game necessarily - it can open options. What I disagree with is the implementation, where 100 resilience is required for that. Instead, I think enemies should do less damage overall. (Not talking about normal and legendary modes here. Those are too easy that might as well be removed altogether). Yes, that does make the game slightly easier, but the idea is that it opens up possibilities. For example, arc warlocks were supposed to be more on the enemies’ face, with a melee special ability instead of special grenades. And that becomes possible only if there is a certain level of resistance you can achieve while doing that. When enemies can almost always two or three-shot you, it reduces the viability of more aggressive approaches. And I personally love builds and gameplay that reward mobility over staying under cover, but there needs to be a way to survive charging through enemies. Take the multiplayer of Mass Effect as an example. It has certain classes whose design is that they are super resistant as long as they are in the air. It is something that would be cool with a solar warlock, but we don’t have that, so the whole aerial style in destiny becomes just wishful thinking. In that game, ME, we also have classes that can charge towards enemies (in fact that’s their main thing), similar to the warlock new melee. For that to work, there must be ways for you to survive the charge. Even as of now, that is a bit difficult to do in Destiny (imagine if the charge gave you temporary high resistance just so you could position yourself for example). I’m definitely in favour of the game remaining difficult to an extent, but Destiny 2 has for a while resorted to this approach of “we’ll make everything kill you very quickly”, and that has this bad side of limiting the gameplay possibilities. Not saying, however, that I have a solution right now, but I think there is more to it than just reducing DR. (That said, I emphasize again, the implementation requiring 100 resilience is terrible.)
Only GMs suffer this issue of too much damage tbh. The rest of the game feels like a joke. Healing and resist shouldn’t coexist. I don’t mind being tanky during abilities, but passive resist shouldn’t be a thing.
@@Saltagreppo I definitely agree that the rest of the game is too easy. I’m not even discussing those modes tbh. Just remove them from the game - I’d keep master nightfalls, however. When you say “passive resistance”, do you mean resistance as coming from resilience? I like stuff like passive guard with swords for example; anything where there is some sort of gameplay loop where you get rewarded for putting yourself at risk and can play a more “on-your-face” style, with things still being difficult - but the difficulty in this means you gotta keep the loop. In my analogy with Mass Effect and the hovering gameplay, imagine if heat rises actually gave you crazy resistance while in the air, allowing for an actual aerial gameplay style. But then it came with the caveat that if you run out of heat rises, you lose that resistance immediately, so you better make sure you land in cover if that is about to happen. I do like that the arc classes get a higher level of resistance compared to other classes because you need something to allow this on-your-face style. Something that allows me to go punch a set of enemies and not immediately die. Otherwise grenades for example (and anything long-range) will always be better.
In this specific strike damaging them counts as a kill (before killing the boss). Jolt from the nade damaged them. You can skip 1, so damaging 3/4 did it.
Power creep is such a hard topic because theres players like me that struggle to even finish a GM like Glassway. Still I agree from your point of view cause you do these crazy challenges and honestly even from an average player like me, I find everything below GM to be easy-moderate. The topic is hard because a balance must be achieved.
Imo, the solution is to keep power creep in check and add difficulty options that fit everyone’s needs. I want everyone to be able to access all difficulty options but ofc we should have some options that only top players can clear (with cool cosmetic rewards)
I honestly like how easy pve is because I mostly play crucible and the amount of bugs in pve make me not play it. I can just hop in pve with titan kill everything and get loot for crucible. Cant wait for them to nerf titan storm bases though they op in crucible.
Sure but if every activity is easy, that’s bad and removes the drive to play for pve players. Hard activities with cosmetics should be the bare minimum.
@@Saltagreppo Yeah, I really wish they threw in a lot more carrots, semi rare ones, and not just gear. I like getting cosmetics as well, and more things like mementos, things to show for, like the igloo on Europa, but more of a personal trophy case room for the whole game.
The game was harder because we have added power creep to abilities/builds. New subclasses are cool, but they were always going to make content easier by making us stronger. Not sure theres much to argue there. The balance conversation is always terrible in the destiny community tho
Why not just ask Bungie as a content creator to create a mode specifically for the elite? Not all of us can do what you do. Repeatedly asking for nerfs because power creep, only hurts the average player, not the elite.
I ask for higher difficulty options all the time. I don’t repeatedly ask for nerf all the time, there are like 6-7 things I would like to see nerfed and like 200+ buffs, and that’s been the case for years. Also, difficulty options wouldn’t fix power creep and build variety. Balancing the game around power creep only forces you to play broken builds all the time.
The evolution of D2 to its current state is mind-numbing w/o question. I always saw D2 as a Power space fantasy, so to me, power creep isn't too much of an issue. The majority of us enjoy the broken builds as it gives us a chance to compete in top tier content. Maybe what the elite need is a game mode that returns to D2 vanilla, that gives you double primaries, and specials for heavy weapons. Maybe add in the ability to remove all charged with light/elemental well builds. Basically, the Luke Smith special that gives you the option to grind with sticks, rocks, and "cool dance emotes" instead. The average player doesn't see many raids, gm's, dungeons, or the lighthouse using the statistical data available. I understand catering to the elite to give you a harder gaming experience, but us average many enjoy these little nuances that give us a boost in the game we all love. Just my 2 cents. ✌️
Never mind Divinity NERF who really cares or even uses it bar raid day 1 PC try hards,Storm Granades and heart of inmost light need to be disabled untill nerfed they make the game a JOKE. Run this sub 20 mins on a solar hunter now that would be impressive!
The games not easy just cuz a select few that spend hours honing there builds and strats find it easy , I farmed 1600 nightfalls all day with increased recharge it was a blast but wiped quite a few times if we didn’t pay attention to the wyverns, if I want a challenge I’ll play a more challenging game destiny should be fun not a try hard sweatbannin rage fest
There still should be hard difficulty options for people that like them. Such ability spam is fun for a bit, but should eventually get tuned down. Not sure why some people wanna gatekeep any for of hard content from hardcore players.
@@BoneCollector607 This season? No, not really. When you consider that a solo clear went from 1:30/2 hours to less than 20 minutes, it really shows how much easier they have gotten.
If hundreds of thousands were soloing sure but only 3 people on my friends list have beaten gm lightblade hell wotm boss was soloed destiny is more popular so more solo beasts are playing now I'm one of the 3 that beat it, we spent more time preping then playing and we had to play like bitches to do it im a god killing guarding not a pool noodle wealding schlub
My favourite part was when Salt threw a storm nade then thrusters
Time stamp? I didn't see that part
It’s honestly so funny to watch cuz I expected him to correct this but he never did lmao
@@jokeis8684 time ?
I love when he said it's stormin time and stormed all over those champions
I do believe that we've gotten better as players but the power creep is undeniable. I remember having to do the Proving Grounds GM a number of times before a clear. But one day, pre-nerf Loreley came upon us and I cleared it on my first try when GMs opened up that season.
Most players who do GM’s are becoming faster and better at them, again though, the percentage players that play and do GM’s and struggle to the people that role through them is still a huge difference.
Kingsfall had 48k players finish day one or something and the average player base is in the millions, and daily player base is 800k give or take. The percentage is still less than 10% of players getting these things done in this way. Trying to reduce that number even further down to the Last wish days were two teams finished on day 1 and the original conqueror seal being a less than 1% success rate isn’t viable for the bigger picture.
@@ThatFletcherGuy. best take imo
@@ThatFletcherGuy. Day 1s are different though. I wouldn't even dare do it that day just because I'm not that hardcore. And that's fine with me. I like the idea of honoring people's dedication to the game if they so choose to spend ungodly hours in it just to be good enough to do day 1s.
Just wondering how do you have anti sniper mod and 2 bolstering denotion mods on your arms and fire power and 2 bomber mods on your class?
Artifice armor, you get it from Master Dungeons. 1 extra slot for seasonal mods
and here I was getting to the boss room with an LFG group in like 10 mins thinking we were going fast. Salt gets there in 8 by himself, LOL
It’s crazy how a year ago a solo gm run of this could take 1.5-2 hours
Wow!! Very impressive my friend
How did you stop the spawning wit heavy tanks from the plate section?
Less adds in solo on the plate for some reason
imagine showing a destiny 2 year 1 player this
I agree on the game getting easier, but ur still cracked brother. Keep it up man great videos
You are a credit to the community.
What does that mean sorry?
@@Saltagreppo you have a lot of value to the community as a whole, these vids are a piece of that value. especially the way you explain your thoughts the whole way through and be honest about your opinion
@@Saltagreppo What Mush said very well :)
Salt really is the streamer of all time.
I do miss old pve sandbox
HE DID IT, LETS GOOOOO
13:22 that harpy really wanted to be on youtube lmao
Let’s go. Good work
When will you ask for heart of inmost Light + storm nade nerf?
I’ve been saying Heart needs a nerf since Void 3.0 came out obviously.
Hi Saltagreppo, hi everybody.
The collectors have no shield in GM ??
The shanks? If you play solo there are less adds on the plate
Reppo Ramsay
For plat do you need to tag the two barriers at the end or can you just kill boss?
You need to tag 3 out of 4, and yes, but it only works in this GM afaik
@@Saltagreppodo they need to be damaged slightly or can they have healed back up to full?
What a monster
1:29 he really spent 5 seconds reading chat instead of throwing a storm nade and still got the wr lol. What a beast
Edit its not the wr, just an insanely good run
Not WR, description
Yo salt can you tweet to bungie to have xur have different spawn locations. I know its irrelevant but something cool to do every year or so.
They really don’t value my tweet more than others, especially if it’s something so trivial. No offense but I can’t be used as a tweet machine XD. I will tweet about things I believe are important. You can use the forums or tweet this yourself🙂
@@Saltagreppo alright ima make it happen dont worry
Why were there only shanks on the plate? No snipers or major shanks
Less adds in solo on the plate for some reason
Common Saltagreppo W
Solo zero hour was very fun
Good shit celticrainbow
Very good
Man you inspire me tokeep getting better at this game
Gms in season ten we're way harder, if I remember correctly.
It might be Survivorship bias, where I just feel it's easier because I now know what to expect from gms
Subclass 3.0 helps a lot. Very strong
OG Corrupted and Garden World xD
40% resist from resil is gamebreaking, they are miles easier
@@Saltagreppo that is true, more people have the title Reckoner than the original conqueror seal.
@@bournecode oh no the garden world.....
This guy can solo the witness 💪😎
Ohhh, the next Streamer-Nerf incomming. The Stormgranate from the Titan 👍👍👍
I don’t think they need a nerf. Heart of Inmost does. Do you think what you just saw is balanced?
Why not it's the only Titan pve fun/useful build we got now
Tempest crown is basically the same nade spam but yoy also get an arc buddy sounds even I'd say 👀
@@BoneCollector607 except it's not.. needing kills is needed
@@izanagisburden9465 pretty much no different nades kill or thunderlord exact same plus the arc buddies and healing rift Titan doesn't have much passive healing seems more strong to me
GGs in soloing this public event! Easiest season ever… 😂
huge W
Pure example of power creep. I hope in Lightfall bungie find a way to make GM's and Endgame content harder and more interesting to play, without thinking:
"Make it harder by adding champions"
GM it is still pretty hard, bro... 95% of players can't get through without several or dozen of tries. This power creep BS only come out of sweaties like this youtuber.
Hey Salt, what was ur favorite time period/season in the destiny franchise
Forsaken Year probably.
I have a take on the game getting easier. First, yes, it definitely is. But I do think we have some outliers as well. There is a reason why many streamers are completing these GMs solos with arc titans, but not arc warlocks. People will be pissed off for me saying this, but both HOIL and storm grenades for titans are anomalies right now that will have to be amended somehow (not unlike Loreley, which was also an anomaly). I would say it’s more important to address HOIL.
But anyway, about the extra damage resistance, I don’t think it breaks the game necessarily - it can open options. What I disagree with is the implementation, where 100 resilience is required for that. Instead, I think enemies should do less damage overall. (Not talking about normal and legendary modes here. Those are too easy that might as well be removed altogether).
Yes, that does make the game slightly easier, but the idea is that it opens up possibilities. For example, arc warlocks were supposed to be more on the enemies’ face, with a melee special ability instead of special grenades. And that becomes possible only if there is a certain level of resistance you can achieve while doing that.
When enemies can almost always two or three-shot you, it reduces the viability of more aggressive approaches. And I personally love builds and gameplay that reward mobility over staying under cover, but there needs to be a way to survive charging through enemies.
Take the multiplayer of Mass Effect as an example. It has certain classes whose design is that they are super resistant as long as they are in the air. It is something that would be cool with a solar warlock, but we don’t have that, so the whole aerial style in destiny becomes just wishful thinking. In that game, ME, we also have classes that can charge towards enemies (in fact that’s their main thing), similar to the warlock new melee. For that to work, there must be ways for you to survive the charge. Even as of now, that is a bit difficult to do in Destiny (imagine if the charge gave you temporary high resistance just so you could position yourself for example).
I’m definitely in favour of the game remaining difficult to an extent, but Destiny 2 has for a while resorted to this approach of “we’ll make everything kill you very quickly”, and that has this bad side of limiting the gameplay possibilities.
Not saying, however, that I have a solution right now, but I think there is more to it than just reducing DR. (That said, I emphasize again, the implementation requiring 100 resilience is terrible.)
Only GMs suffer this issue of too much damage tbh. The rest of the game feels like a joke. Healing and resist shouldn’t coexist. I don’t mind being tanky during abilities, but passive resist shouldn’t be a thing.
@@Saltagreppo
I definitely agree that the rest of the game is too easy. I’m not even discussing those modes tbh. Just remove them from the game - I’d keep master nightfalls, however.
When you say “passive resistance”, do you mean resistance as coming from resilience?
I like stuff like passive guard with swords for example; anything where there is some sort of gameplay loop where you get rewarded for putting yourself at risk and can play a more “on-your-face” style, with things still being difficult - but the difficulty in this means you gotta keep the loop.
In my analogy with Mass Effect and the hovering gameplay, imagine if heat rises actually gave you crazy resistance while in the air, allowing for an actual aerial gameplay style. But then it came with the caveat that if you run out of heat rises, you lose that resistance immediately, so you better make sure you land in cover if that is about to happen.
I do like that the arc classes get a higher level of resistance compared to other classes because you need something to allow this on-your-face style. Something that allows me to go punch a set of enemies and not immediately die. Otherwise grenades for example (and anything long-range) will always be better.
How does he get platinum without killing the champs at the end?
You can skip those. Works like that in a lot of places in the game. Every champion isn't mandatory.
In this specific strike damaging them counts as a kill (before killing the boss). Jolt from the nade damaged them. You can skip 1, so damaging 3/4 did it.
@@Saltagreppo well shit, the more you know. This would've saved so much headache last week but appreciate the info!
I wanna see a speedrun of the light blade
We had a ton of overloads not stunning. Very buggy
Nice!
I can't wait for the reveal that salt is the final shape
Bruh i cant even do a 1540 lost sector wtf😭
you should use Div for Ovy’s for shits and giggles
I had not enough ammo in the boss room XD
Certo lo potevi usá il Divinity eh! XD
Non avevo abbastanza munizioni nella boss room XD
Power creep is such a hard topic because theres players like me that struggle to even finish a GM like Glassway. Still I agree from your point of view cause you do these crazy challenges and honestly even from an average player like me, I find everything below GM to be easy-moderate. The topic is hard because a balance must be achieved.
Imo, the solution is to keep power creep in check and add difficulty options that fit everyone’s needs. I want everyone to be able to access all difficulty options but ofc we should have some options that only top players can clear (with cool cosmetic rewards)
What if the power creep was serving a narrative purpose, and we are going to get pounded into the ground Lightfall?
@@jimmysuros6302 0% chance imo. I wish.
@@Saltagreppo that would actually be a cool fix! Having content “reserved” for the best is an interesting idea.
If u can't finish a gm change ur build/wepons and get a better team that can explain it
I honestly like how easy pve is because I mostly play crucible and the amount of bugs in pve make me not play it. I can just hop in pve with titan kill everything and get loot for crucible. Cant wait for them to nerf titan storm bases though they op in crucible.
Sure but if every activity is easy, that’s bad and removes the drive to play for pve players. Hard activities with cosmetics should be the bare minimum.
@@Saltagreppo Yeah, I really wish they threw in a lot more carrots, semi rare ones, and not just gear. I like getting cosmetics as well, and more things like mementos, things to show for, like the igloo on Europa, but more of a personal trophy case room for the whole game.
Nice
fab run, following on twitch
why is the volume so low lmao
Wdym? It’s fine for me
Without div
The game was harder because we have added power creep to abilities/builds. New subclasses are cool, but they were always going to make content easier by making us stronger. Not sure theres much to argue there. The balance conversation is always terrible in the destiny community tho
It’s terrible when people go toxic mode, but some very nice convos can come out of it.
Meanwhile I struggle to clear this with 3 conquerors in 35 minutes
Nerf Divinity
The game is getting so much easier you're right. Just look at lightblade gm
Why not just ask Bungie as a content creator to create a mode specifically for the elite? Not all of us can do what you do. Repeatedly asking for nerfs because power creep, only hurts the average player, not the elite.
I ask for higher difficulty options all the time. I don’t repeatedly ask for nerf all the time, there are like 6-7 things I would like to see nerfed and like 200+ buffs, and that’s been the case for years. Also, difficulty options wouldn’t fix power creep and build variety. Balancing the game around power creep only forces you to play broken builds all the time.
The evolution of D2 to its current state is mind-numbing w/o question. I always saw D2 as a Power space fantasy, so to me, power creep isn't too much of an issue. The majority of us enjoy the broken builds as it gives us a chance to compete in top tier content. Maybe what the elite need is a game mode that returns to D2 vanilla, that gives you double primaries, and specials for heavy weapons. Maybe add in the ability to remove all charged with light/elemental well builds. Basically, the Luke Smith special that gives you the option to grind with sticks, rocks, and "cool dance emotes" instead. The average player doesn't see many raids, gm's, dungeons, or the lighthouse using the statistical data available. I understand catering to the elite to give you a harder gaming experience, but us average many enjoy these little nuances that give us a boost in the game we all love. Just my 2 cents. ✌️
@@chiefJmiah noone wants double primary and noone asked to not use mods. Buildcrafting is cool, but some things simply need a nerf.
Never mind Divinity NERF who really cares or even uses it bar raid day 1 PC try hards,Storm Granades and heart of inmost light need to be disabled untill nerfed they make the game a JOKE.
Run this sub 20 mins on a solar hunter now that would be impressive!
I agree they are broken, you don’t have to tell me lol
@@Saltagreppo lol great run nevertheless! :)
Until the seasonal mods are taken away stop nerfing Titan shit we ain't got much left
Glassway was so much harder the first year, most gms were, now they are glorified strikes
Nerd
Eh
Titan storm nades need a massive nerf.
It’s mainly heart of inmost tbh, not really the nades
The games not easy just cuz a select few that spend hours honing there builds and strats find it easy , I farmed 1600 nightfalls all day with increased recharge it was a blast but wiped quite a few times if we didn’t pay attention to the wyverns, if I want a challenge I’ll play a more challenging game destiny should be fun not a try hard sweatbannin rage fest
There still should be hard difficulty options for people that like them. Such ability spam is fun for a bit, but should eventually get tuned down. Not sure why some people wanna gatekeep any for of hard content from hardcore players.
@@Saltagreppo grandmasters are unbelievably hard
@@BoneCollector607 This season? No, not really. When you consider that a solo clear went from 1:30/2 hours to less than 20 minutes, it really shows how much easier they have gotten.
If hundreds of thousands were soloing sure but only 3 people on my friends list have beaten gm lightblade hell wotm boss was soloed destiny is more popular so more solo beasts are playing now I'm one of the 3 that beat it, we spent more time preping then playing and we had to play like bitches to do it im a god killing guarding not a pool noodle wealding schlub
And destiny is a group game who cares about solo stuff