NOTE: MISLABELED CHART AT 21:42. 1440p off (ASR 5700 XT) SHOULD READ *on*. ASR ON should read *off*. They are flipped by accident. Sorry! Support GN's investigations & plant trees via our store: store.gamersnexus.net/ #RDR2 Graphics Settings Deep-Dive: th-cam.com/video/SAwAP499YSQ/w-d-xo.html RDR2 CPU Benchmark: th-cam.com/video/z_ty-gajwoA/w-d-xo.html RDR2 GPU Benchmark: th-cam.com/video/yD3xd1qGcfo/w-d-xo.html
I Do have the same stuttering on i5 2500 with a 3gig 1060, Do you think is this related to this wierd engine thing or its because its below slightly to the recommended spec(i5 2500k)? thanks for any thoughts on this.
this is not a cpu issue.... this is a motherboard and hard drive issue... the stuttering might be caused by the requests to draw texture, not being satisfied by the clients position, on the game map as the clients hardware cant keep up the cache to access its cache content library(textures objets etc etc) By keeping ones settings lower, you cause your cam to draw a lesser distance, for both textures and mesh lods, and as the player turns or moves or draws in new stuff, it is lenient into drawing new objects on the threshold of its cam draw distance..... which then make is so that those objects right on the limit are not properly drawn or undrawn, while the ones u leaving behind are still requesting for the draw to be completed... a mesh can be there showing its lowest lod, but then the client could not be near enough to draw the texture...and this causes the stuttering. this can be simply fixed by the developer changing the render volume LOD factor to a slightly higher setting, but by doing this, you will cripple the frame rate of those who run proper high end hyper threaded cpus with high end graphics cards...unless the RENDER VOLUME LOD factor is changed ONLY for certain graphics settings, that are common for 1080p players with low and but high core clock cpus on a poor low end monitor and graphics. ALSO by doing so, those low end 1080p computer ups, will pull out less fps, so in those cases where a client might be able to push eg 180 FPS, he would experience a 150fps but at least stable It is likely a 180 seconds fix on behalf of the developer, that can then be dropped in the next update. That being said...it is a pity that the game is still on a old school philosophy of gaming instead of using a true sandbox like game play..I assume the developers do not wish to pay for servers supporting such more contemporary like platform. I dont own the game but it seems Its basically a GTA 5 on horses?! basically a very old game, but do disregards this last comment, if it is LIVE a sandbox like game
No they won't :p Running this at 120fps isn't really needed and not done by alot of people anyway. Crank it up to ultra and enjoy it and you won't hit that cap anyway. But you never know, maybe they will :p They should fix the damn launch and crash issues, no excuse for those!
The issue can also be fixed by limiting the CPU power in the Windows power plan option without using any external programs. I permanently have it limited to a percentage and never had a problem, unlocked it to 100% power and bam, stutters.
@@unocualqu1era The fact that you willing to accept this and didn't return it, is exactly the reason why Rockstar keep getting away with shit like this. And it's not the first time. GTA IV was just as terrible, and GTA 5 was no better..
It's a sad reality friend! People should not support bs like this... Look at EA and ubisoft... Seems like Rockstar wants to tell them hold my beer and watch how you do it ;/ Edit and Bethesda....
@@west1329 ac odyessy performed way better than red dead 2 4k ultra (with max AA and motion blur) 51 fps vs 4k 34 fps.ubisoft games may not be that great for some people but the good thing is they never abandon them. Took rockstar 8 years to fix gta IV but it only reach 60 fps on max settings with 1080ti
@@dotalegendery3998 That doesn't mean ubisoft is in the clear. It just means most big AAA game companies are lazy when it comes to optimization. But fast to push out monetizations aka dlc's or some form of unnecessary money grab. And that is where I respect CDPR
Brian Crowe Acolyte you could just check your disk activity graph in task manager before doing that ;) online is always mostly about waiting in the queue
@@blooodtier820 Eh...Bethesda games run poorly everywhere but they've always been PC-first. Their stuff runs even *worse* on consoles if you can believe it. And given that half the point of Bethesda games is mods why would anyone even get them for consoles...
So it's a thread mutex/lock issue, possibly lock starvation. Those are a **pain** to debug. Edit: I'd love to see the cracked, DRM-less version tested versus the official one.
These results and analyses are products of Steve and his team's incredible dedication to experimenting and a genuine interest for things we viewers care about. Keep it up, this is amazing and I learned a lot from it.
If I were just a regular Joe Shmoe trying to play a game, I'd be thinking my i5 or my 9700k had something wrong playing this game - instead of devs fixing their game they had an entire extra year to fix and optimize they just throw some DRM on it and put out a lazily bugfixed title that they let sit on a shelf after they probably got done developing the code for for the console port over a year and a half ago. Instead of realizing there's a problem with the game, some people might go thinking there's something wrong with their computer, and that's honestly pretty disheartening. Hopefully this vid and others on the topic will help people with these CPUs realize it's the game's optimization quirks and not their computers that have something wrong with them. EDIT: that feel when my type of comment gets called out mid video /humbled 😂
Extremely good point and well-said. People could end up spending money to try and 'fix' this, which is just sad. The good news is that running higher graphics settings will work around the issue by dropping framerate, but there's still a chance people upgrade CPUs without truly needing to. We'd love to see Rockstar fix this. We emailed Intel to see if they can maybe put some more pressure on Rockstar.
@@GamersNexus I have an i5 6500 and I get horrible fps drops and stuttering /freezing when I get to Valentine, (I get freezing outside Valentine) I realise that this cpu is old but I have tried moving all settings to low and get the exact same performance
Yup then put out the PR that the game is just so glorious that it's "very demanding". Same happened with AC:Origins + DRM poor performance. And paid and/or bootlicking channels/sites - along with AAA's fanboy armies - vehemently call out anyone pointing out the game's poor optimization as uncultured swine who "do not understand game development" (as they sniff their own farts).
@@GamersNexus I am running at 3700x at stock with a 2080TI at stock at 3440x1440. Prior to trying this i had attempted every fix suggested by the community, rockstar etc.
Same here. Game ran fine at high settings, but would just crash every 30 minutes or so. 2700x @ 4.2Ghz with a RTX 2060 Super at 1080p. Since turning Async compute on, I've been able to play the last 2 nights with zero crashing. Played roughly 5 hours each night without restarting the game once.
@@GamersNexus Turning async on helped for me too. I can't use DX12 because it has lots of texture loading issues where in some cases it won't load the entire ground. So I was forced to use Vulkan but I was dealing with constant hitching no matter what settings I used. Then I saw a video about turning async on and that got rid of all the hitching I was experiencing. My system has a 2700x with a Vega 64 and I'm playing @1440 in case you were wondering. (edit for specs)
I love how you guys put the blue bars going down the side to match when you stop talking about a graph. Really helps skip things that aren't relevant to my rig (like AMD charts)
crazy all the 15 to 30 minute videos uploaded on just how to get this to run right, and the nutty steps to get it too lol. No wonder so many people still love consoles. This game, like most junked up console ports, should just run. period. only the pc market can developers get away with this comedy over and over again. I think there is a fun factor for folks who post vids like this. They won't admit it though, but these crap ports are a goldmine for some. this video took some serious dedicated research. very nicely done.
It's a nice dream to think ports should "just run," but in reality it requires a hundred times more bug-fixing because of the wide variety of PC hardware.
@DANK Nope, same world. That's why so many people have consoles: they can compare the two gaming experiences and choose the one they prefer. Or both. And "fagboy?" You seem to have veered off course.
@DANK keep at it, you are really good at silly trolling! 😂😂 @nimrodery even since the options of day1 patches and endless updates then sure of course "just run" is now just a pipe dream since consumers will tolerate piss poor BS port releases on PC that require 150 youtube tutorials on how to get proper settings just to get 'below high' to run stable year after year. Stop preordering. Wait the release is close to final.
it's interesting that it's thread based. In a group of 4 of us, the two with 6600K got the stutters, but those with an 8700K and 6700K did not. After extensive testing (equalising all factors, disabling HT etc) this lead us to believe it to be HT specific, not thread specific. Its good to see additional testing with a wider use base expanding on this, even if it disproves our theory. I disagree however with the statement that limiting the framerate to 120 will stop the issue. I ran the benchmark, with the game GPU bound (60 FPS max, 40 ave, GPU @100%, CPU@70%) and the frame freezes still occur
The bottleneck meme is worse, like way worse. Especially if you sell hardware or generally advice people on what parts to get. "Herp derp will a 9700k bottleneck a 2080Ti in this game" without mentioning any presets or resolution.. The worst thing though is when your trying to sell a machine to a guy who only wants to playthat one game, who again has no preset or resolution in mind, and don't comprehend the fact that pc performence isn't equal across the line..
People often use "unoptimized" as a slang for any kind of issue that might affect performance. But I think thats just irrelevant *when* theres a real issue. Take Stellaris for example: the game becomes unplayable in the end- sometimes during midgame. I dont have to figure out the details to point out that theres something wrong with it. So whats the problem to say its unoptimized?
People always claim unoptimized because it isn't running the way they want it to run. Yeah your card may have been a 1440p style card 3 years ago but it certainly isn't today. I can guarantee the same whiners will be out in full force when Cyberpunk lands
I have an fx 8120 oced 20% and a gtx 970 I can play every game in 1366x786 since day 1 at medium/ high (60 fps unless denuvo collapes my cpu - assassin creed odessy) settings. They all look same great quality Sure never could get to 1080p but my monitor is 1366x768 People will complain for everything
@@Sundara229 because in this case people were claiming rdr2 is "unoptimized" just because they didnt get their expected fps. Stuff like "my 2080ti doesnt even hit 60fps at 4k ultra, such poor optimization rockstar smh" is just flat out wrong. Graphically demanding does not mean unoptimized. Strange stuttering at high frame rate however, does.
I built PCs since I was a kid and troubleshooted my share of hardware and software so I thought I had a good understanding of things...but when I watch you guys, I feel like a noob.
Building PCs is really pretty easy once you have the hardware you want picked out (little bit of research), but figuring out why shitty code makes your PC stutter takes dozens of hours of work and a lot of experience bench marking and number crunching. You have the experience in the hardware area and some general software troubleshooting but this stuff takes hours of time and very few people have the multiple platforms and extensive time available. Building my systems last December I had a bad motherboard (did not boot), then the replacement had a bad primary ram slot and then I had a software conflict on the other system that caused random shutdowns and made it look like a hardware problem (Damn TT software). Takes time but I like stuff like that. Tech Jesus has the benefit of this being his full time job and has developed a bunch of tools to help him benchmark.
They fixed the stutter, todays update: Added an additional launch argument (-cpuLoadRebalancing) to rebalance workload on the CPU cores and avoid hitting an edge-case in certain NVIDIA graphics card drivers that causes significant stalls on 4-core and 6-core CPUs
Can I just say that I get the severe stutter regularly around the 50-60fps mark. It's significantly worse on Vulkan than it is DX12. I trust you guys, but I get the same symptoms without hitting that cap. Audio keeps playing, Gsync fps monitor shows maybe 2fps, resumes after a period, jumps to 100 refresh rate and then comes back to the Gsync matched 50ish 3440*1440, GTX 1080, 6600k @4.9
mobile.twitter.com/lewdstar2/status/1193712075807158272 These are the settings I used to get rid of the stuttering while going into large and complex landscapes and towns.
@@suiton20 I turned off the GPU overclock, but haven't done that to the CPU yet. Realistically these parts are underpowered for that application, and they're both hanging around 100% I've got two loose theories. One is that something is happening when it hits 100% CPU and it hangs. Two and slightly more probable.. It's graphics related issue. The fact Gsync gives up after a hard stutter, resumes to 100hz before re-matching to the 50odd FPS the GPU can manage is suspect.. And Vulkan you have to leave Vsync on for Gsync to work (and suddenly it gets significantly worse) is suspect.
Have you monitored temperatures and gpu/cpu usage? Knowing which one is hitting 100% during the stutter will help narrow it down, and thermal issues is always the first thing I try to rule out.
Only people playing at 1080p with 2080 ti will run into this. Has to be a tiny percentage of people but still a important issue. I’m personally more concerned with why the game runs so poorly and is terribly optimized. Using anything besides MSAA is blur city, Using MSAA kills fps and makes textures/grass/foliage flicker. Game looks nice but shouldn’t run this bad.
@@GamersNexus I've been trying to diagnose the issue seeing if it had something to do with my overclocks but no, still manifests at stock. It happens at 720p too, so it definitely is an engine issue. RDR2 came to PC quicker than GTA V, and this seems to be the price. My situation: the game doesn't save my settings (boots with 720p Low each time), the mouse cursor sometimes hangs around on screen, the aforementioned freezing, crashing to desktop... All of this is so frustrating, because the game itself is absolutely fantastic.
My experience differs from your data a little. I have an i5 8400 (6 cores with no ht) which is pushing a 1080gtx. I was tweaking to hit 1440p 60fps. During my benchmarks I was getting frozen frame issue at the beggining of the robbery scene. During this scene my cores maxed out, %100. Now I don't freeze up everytime I hit %100, but I only freeze up at times I am at %100. However my FPS (Even internally, I had vsync on) was no where near 140fps that you guys claimed. In order to fix this I used BES to prevent red dead 2 from filling in the top %3. This has worked like a charm for now.
Do you have enough RAM? Enough threads? Is your game running from a secondary slow spinning storage drive? Do you meet any of the conditions noted above for causing/contributing to stuttering?
@@mdd1963 my specs are i7 7700k , 16 gb ram , gtx 1070 , 1 TB SSD and the game is running like trash .. i get stutters and freezes like crazy every 1 minute it stops for like 5 seconds .. you can hear them talk but the picture is not moving
Just an FYI, i came here due to the a-sync line in the settings XML, i have a 4930k and 5700xt, and despite a high framerate I was having issues with the stutter. Once i enabled that line, about 99.9% of the stutters I was having went away.
Can you test limiting CPU affinity to avoid core 0 (and 1 if it's hyperthreaded) on your next video? It's theoretically the fastest core but it's actually the slowest core when I compared their performance using a software called process lasso (thread racer feature). 1st physical core is used for windows services and SSD/HDD interrupts which are always happening in the background so I think this might be contributing to the stuttering problem.
Game just unplayable for me. Running a 4690k @ 4,5GHz, 16GB RAM and a 980ti, all settings cranked to lowest possible, 720p. Getting stutters and chops that last for many seconds, like every other second, I was shocked when you GPU analysis told that my 980ti is supposed to get 57fps on 1080p! While I can't even manage through the intro stage of the game!
Meanwhile, rockstar Devs Dev: We have an issue that only happens if we combine a lot of factors Manager: What is the chance of someone notice the issue? Dev: Unlikely, no one will notice Gamer Nexus: we notice the issue, here's the cause and bunch of tests. Great job man, keep up the good work.
When you were giving an example of threads, typically you are correct. However, with Vulkan as the API, it will usually balance load across threads ( I put RDR2 across 12 threads, and it balances almost equally). This is typical of a Vulkan implementation where they have multiple command pools across threads. What could be happening is that there are more than 8 queues at once, at times, and if you don't have enough hardware threads, it could be waiting to sync a couple of these queues, thus the stall. Why ~140 fps? Probably related to some internal tick frequency updating one of the queues.
If Asynch is "OFF" by default, and it is only reachable via the XML, something really weird is going on on my system. It was "ON" in my XML file (and I never touched this setting) Running a R5 2600X, RX 580 8GB, 3000Mhz DDR4 on a Gigabyte B450 Aorus Elite. OS = Winblows 10
Async compute is probably disabled because of issues. I have a GTX970 and tried it as someone said it solved their crashing issues. Well I got problems with the images. Not a crash but I also did not tried it longer than 10min. It seems to use a trianglestrip but does not render it in the right order. So you get really weird images.
Impressive amounts of work put into this, thanks for doing it, doubt they will fix the dang issue... No clue why they haven't patched/replaced that old engine but oh well... it's a beautiful game, sadly the online part for an already expensive game is way too money hungry and the offline is "story mode" should have some free roam in offline mode and heck even with friends.
2022 and I still have this issue, with an i7 11375H and a RTX 3060, I have zero issues with temperatures, it is the only fwken game that makes my CPU down speed randomly. Suddenly something happens that makes my CPU go from stable 4.3Ghz to variable speed hence my fps drops and become very anoying.
Running Ryzen3600 with Tomahawk B450 16GB 3200mhz Ram,2070 suiper(everything on Ultra except volumetric lighting and water physics which is on high).While using DX12 I found,not during free roam,but during a mission,that entering towns was an issue.It would just freeze up.Also happened during that first bar fight in the mud.Turning on Vulkan for me solved all crashes so far,but introduced a mouse issue where I cannot see the mouse in menus or while using the map.There seems to be no perfect setting...instead you seem to be dealing with trade offs...now using the map is impossible...thank you Steve :-)
Speaking as a systems programmer, I can’t stand when testers tell me WHAT or WHY the root cause of a problem is just because they have specific test cases that break something. Yes, you have a test case that breaks something. Thank you. Anything beyond that, you’re just guessing. Don’t direct people based on guesses, rockstar devs or anyone else involved in engineering. Some naive programmer will waste hours chasing nothing based on your theory - I have not ever had a single theory coming from a tester prove to be true. For all you know, some intern put a random function in that purposefully slows down the engine when over 140 fps. The people that were guessing “hyperthreading” vs other things... it’s all just guesses. Great, helpful tests, but trying to prove a theory through a test case is not helpful. The only people that know what the actual problem is are the people that fix the bugs. Report the bug, leave it at that.
I get where you are coming from, but testing and guessing might narrow the problem down. Especially since "the people that fix the bugs" have to reproduce and/or search for bugs too, no?
I get terrible stutter every 5 or so minutes with my i5 7600k, I'm so glad to see its not just me. I've been putting with it though for my 40+ hours in game getting so frustrated because these freezes last up to 10-15 seconds
Interesting findings, but I'm pretty sure that is not the entire picture. I'm playing the game on 1440p with a mixture of settings (mostly high) on a 1080TI. I'm getting nowhere near 140 FPS, mostly 50-70, and I still get the stuttering/freezing. Initially the game was unplayable, but after the latest patch it occurs much less frequently, but it is still there. That is on DX12, on Vulkan the stuttering/freezing is still present and is much more severe. Specs: i5-4690k @ 4.6GHZ 16GB DDR3 GTX 1080 TI
The freezing happens on a test system 3570k with a 1070ti, but not on a 3930k with an rtx2070. The freezing actually causes Rockstar to drop you off the online server, if the freezes happen too often. We have been testing with other CPU's and GPU combos to see if it's heat related but nothing is conclusive.
So much coverage on a game I never had interest in playing. I get that it's popular for some reason, but I do enjoy the troubleshooting tech behind it.
Man, I've been out of the loop for so long. I didn't even know 8 core CPUs existed. Here I am running the game on a gen 3 i7-3770 quad core at 2.6-2.9 GHz no problem. Running a Frankenstein build that started as a 2012 Dell XPS 8500, and the last upgrade was an 8GB GTX 1080. Seeing any frames higher than 60 would require me to drop everything to low, or worse, play on 1080p instead of 1440p.
Stuttering is not effecting my game the constant crashing that occurs after 15 minutes of play. Ryzen 7 1700x, RTX 2060, 16GB of ram, MSI B450 Tomahawk MB. WTF Rockstar?
red dead 2 killed my 1080ti. Blue screens and crashes ever since I started playing it, now it does it in other games too. good thing it still has warranty
I don't expect Rockstar to fix ANY performance issues with their games, especially after how little they did to improve GTA IV on PC. They just act like the game doesn't exist, and their comically late 'patch' to 'recognise more VRAM' did literally nothing of substance.
I really wished you'd left-align the labels on your charts. Right-aligning them, as you traditionally do, hampers readability significantly, IMHO, making it harder to follow the script even with the included highlighting.
As a 1050ti/i5 3570k user: Enabling Async compute did actually rid my game entirely of the "4 core stutter" we've been seeing with older i5s and all, for others with the issue I'd reccomend giving it a go. It did not improve framerate or anything, but the game was actually playable, comfortably. So, if you're out there and having issues, maybe give it a go, there's no guarantee it'll work, as the video shows it sometimes doesn't, but it also could.
There's also a severe memory leak problem that manifests over time and the more locations you visit during the playing session (at least, in multiplayer and on Vulkan). It seems there is no upper cap to the amount of assets it keeps in RAM after loading them, as it eventually reaches 16 GB on my system and crashes the game (even where there's nothing running in the background besides the launcher, the game and a few minor essentials like Afterburner and Rivatuner). You can force it by travelling from Saint Denis to the western part of the map on foot/horseback and visiting as many towns, as possible, on your way.
VargVikernes1488 ah I see it’s like GTAV all over again... I still get stutters in GTAV after playing for like an hour, and it stutters everytime I hit a car, a post, crash my car, punch people... it stutters for a second.
14:00 Correct Steve, most of the time people simply do not know. They don't have the raw hardware to test against to try and figure this stuff out. That is why I love it when you or other big techtubers take the time to try and figure this stuff out. It's fascinating, and QA at these major studios could learn more than a thing or two from you guys!
The problem with the RAGE. engine is that since 2007, RAGE integrated the third-party middleware components Euphoria and Bullet as character animation engine and physics engine, respectively. Middleware framework components have a tendency to cause more serious issues in games that are difficult to resolve than games using full blown game engines like Unity, Unreal, Frostbite and CryEngine do. Yes, all games using any game engine has bugs, but when you have three different frameworks with different source codes trying to work together in a single game, debugging and cleaning up code takes a lot longer. That said, RAGE's strengths are many, including Its ability to handle large open worlds, complex A.I. arrangements, weather effects, and a multitude of gameplay styles.
I'm using a FX-8350 with a R9 290 and the game runs flawlessly for me. I do get crashes from time to time, but my frames arent bad on a mix of ultra, high, and medium. Its crazy how my old hardware works better than others with modern amazing computers. I hope R* fixes these issues. Great video as always Gamers Nexus!
"You might have one thread for rendering .. all your draw calls .. that's typically your most heavily loaded thread." True in the sad old days and fixing this clear sticking point has been one of the main goals of both DX12 and Vulkan. Both of these newer APIs allow the spreading of rendering workload across multiple CPU threads. There is no longer any need for applications to do all rendering in a single rendering thread and this can have huge benefits for both performance and for battery life on mobile.
im using a 9900k and 2080ti, also 16gb 3600mhz cas 16, I seen joker productions video on enabling async compute, I didn't see any performance or stuttering improvement but that's because it wasn't stuttering for me to start with.... however I DID see stability improvement, I would crash all the time playing the game, since enabling this option I have not crashed in 2 solid days of playing it, a good 5-6 hours each day on the game. I would highly recommend enabling this, at least if your using the same setup as me, ive seen no negative impact to using it and as mentioned my crashing has stopped, completely. my in game settings are a mixture of ultra and high using vulkan at 1440p, I average around 80fps, sometimes up at around 100fps although rare and sometimes dipping into the 60's.
Bartłomiej Suski I still get hitching and freezes, same CPU, Process Lasso makes the freezes less time in length, but they still exist for me, mainly noticeable in Saint Denis.
@@CrisisBag Don't know if this will help but I configured the CPU Limiter in process lasso for rdr2.exe to reduce by 1 core for 1 sec any time CPU use is higher than 96%.
The async compute toggle is most likely off by default in the xml file because it's not actually in the game yet, likely the feature wasn't finished by shipping time and removed entirely. The people saying it results in improved performance are likely just reporting on a placebo.
Ad: ....frequency range 20 Hz - 40 kHz Me: wait this cant be right. *checks amazon page, indeed states 20 Hz - 40 kHz. Good job corsair advertising headphones in the range of ultra sounds (>20khz). Surprised they didn't go as far as "no one is even physically able to listen all the amazing sounds these can produce" or "drive your dog crazy by being able to play ultra sounds on your headphones"
Human hearing thresholds vary by person (and age). 20Hz - 20kHz is just the average. That said, going clear to 40kHz is probably a response to the trend towards 88.2kHz and 96kHz sampling frequencies in modern recording software.
@@OtherTheDave Pls stop. Sampling frequency has nothing to do with the frequencies being produced. Almost any audio (music, movies, games) has been mastered with filters at 20khz, so these frequencies aren't even there. Not even to mention that loud ultra sounds on that range can damage your hearing or cause headaches. We can only perceive some ultra sounds by bone conduction (certainly not headphones!). There is reason 20khz is considered the upper limit of human hearing and is the standard on any serious audio equipment. Use an online tone generator and try to hear a loud tone over 14khz for 5 minutes, then come back and tell me how you feel.
@@emperorSbraz Just because they exist, doesn't mean they should. Its just marketing bs to appear better on paper. Bigger number is always better right? so I guess those scientists don't really know anything, naming anything above 20khz "ultra sounds" because they can;t be heard by humans. There are many discussions on "audiophile" forums of people claiming to hear over 20khz, but its just the same "elitists" who claim to hear differences between a 10.000$ cable and a 10.100$ cable. Only believe what you read when you they have provided blind testing proof, which some forums even require. You can feel (not hear) sounds over 20khz through bone conduction, but not through air (speakers/headphones) and its still not comfortable. Don't fall for marketing bs. This is not like "how many fps the eye can see" the eyes don't "see" in frames, but ears hear in frequencies.
@@Lambretta_G ah goddammit i wrote a cool response but the message vanished. :( anyway, i know it's all bs. what i meant was it's standard practice *and it's nothing to be trusted*.
My guess would be intermittent deadlocks between the threads. Since the game is running on threading capable graphics API:s (Vulkan, DX12) and is originally written for very CPU constrained but high-thread count CPU:s in the consoles, I'd wager it's not as simple as "one thread does this, one thread does that". Rather I'm guessing they have some work dispatching mechanic where a thread can do any kind of work, be it physics, graphics or sound related, etc. Each frame is associated with X number of jobs that need to be completed before the frame is fully rendered. These jobs have inter-dependencies, where some jobs need to be completed before other jobs. In a deadlock-scenario, two or more threads end up waiting for each other to finish. As you stress a highly threaded system by eg. increasing the frame-rate, the more likely you are to run into these kinds of bugs. To prevent the game from crashing in a deadlock scenario they probably have some kind of timeout for how long a job can take, say 100ms. If a thread takes longer than that to complete a job, it is terminated and work is re-added to the job queue. This resolves the deadlock but at the cost of severe stuttering.
On 1660 super game was having extremely weird stutters where steam overlay was showing 80+ fps but gameplay was stuttery as hell , the problem got fixed once i went dx12, however after turning on async computing in xml it fixed stuttering when using vulkan ,i have i7-6700k paired with gpu
I exeperienced a very similar issue in Witcher 3 (after patch 1.07) with a dual core / dual thread cpu (G3258). During the stutter the context switch of the cpu skyrocketed from thousands to millions, and the result was a still image for seconds. Using a cpu limiter like BES (Battle Encoder Shirase) helped, basically the cpu was chocking itself and using less power prevented the problem. People with four or more cores did not had the same issue.
When I run dx12 it runs beautifully but I get a mouse cursor I can't get rid of. With Vulkan, no cursor but micro stutter. 9900k, 2080ti. What do? Thanks papa Steve
somewhere in Rockstar Support's Twitter replies (on 1 or 2 of their posts) i saw people posting a fix for this, if you dig through there you should find it, hope it helps you. o/
Great work Steve, vg to see these independent reviews finding what game developers should already have fixed 😂😝. Love both my mod mats (med & lrg) Anna my March I received a little while back. Keep up the great work and merch. Cheers from Australia 🇦🇺
On 60 hz monitors use vsync, on 120hz monitors use vsync half refresh rate, on 240 hz monitors use framerate limiter in Nvidea profile inspector and cap the fps at 60. - no microstuttering anymore.
@@vyor8837 What drugs are you on? "Long answer: The nature of Physics calculations are a series of small arithmetic calculations that can be calculated in a highly parallel fashion. And a GPU, with its ridiculous number of stream processors, handles these types of calculations incredibly well. A GPU will perform FAR better on these specific types of short, highly parallel computations than a general purpose CPU. If you offloaded the physics calculations onto the CPU, it is true that you would free up resources on the GPU to compute other things. But it would actually severely decrease your framerate performance, because your CPU is going to run these physics calculations at a much slower rate than your GPU could."
@@vyor8837 Appealing to authority doesn't make you right. You could just be a shit developer. Also I'm assuming you don't have access to gpu based physics engines. Literally everywhere I look people say most physics calculations pairs well with parallel. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_computing_on_graphics_processing_units There's literally a whole section dedicated to gpu bound physics processing.
I feel like you're missing something as I couldn't relate to my results. I am nowhere near the 100+fps target, yet am experiencing several second freezes if not using process lasso. 7700k 4C/4T (no ht) at 5.0ghz and a 1080ti, 2560x1080 all on ultra exept reflections low, no msaa, water 9/10, volumetrics high - avg 60fps. using process lasso (in options force mode enabled) to disable 1 core when rdr2.exe uses 98%cpu it completely eliminates stutters(freezes).. is this a different freezing issue?
SWATsqad process lasso is an awesome utility. I use it on most software (especially when everything is using thread 0) to spread the load. It's definitely worth the price.
R* should have themselves inserted proper code to handle high cpu usage...not make their customers who are paying for their game to go through that headache.
David Hall yeah its a good piece of software. I recommend this over the BES solution in this case as stutters are completely eliminated. though I can't wrap my head around as to why. I know steve said he is only focusing on this high fps case, but i feel like these are related and would love him to try this solution on the 9700k.
This hasn’t aged well and should be redone. I and others have the exact same issue in the exact same place in the benchmark demonstrated at the start of this video and have demonstrated it with different processors, GPUs and MBs. It seems you have found one example of the issue and decided to then conclude everyone else didn’t know what they are talking about and left it at that. Unfortunately it seems you missed the wider picture and an interesting issue that’s still there to this day.
So you guys put out a 30 min video to highlight an issue with Rockstar's engine while playing Red Dead 2 that will virtually effect no one? No one is hitting 140 fps in this game with the best hardware on the market, let alone the hardware needed to recreate this issue. Then you throw in a comment about how gamers saying that this game is unoptimized due to the many, many, MANY gamers who are experiencing performance issues with this game doesn't know what they're talking about? Forget the graphical settings let's talk about the countless gamers who are experiencing frequent crashes. Are numerous crashes to desktop per gaming session a feature that is usually present within "well optimized" games?
NOTE: MISLABELED CHART AT 21:42. 1440p off (ASR 5700 XT) SHOULD READ *on*. ASR ON should read *off*. They are flipped by accident. Sorry!
Support GN's investigations & plant trees via our store: store.gamersnexus.net/
#RDR2 Graphics Settings Deep-Dive: th-cam.com/video/SAwAP499YSQ/w-d-xo.html
RDR2 CPU Benchmark: th-cam.com/video/z_ty-gajwoA/w-d-xo.html
RDR2 GPU Benchmark: th-cam.com/video/yD3xd1qGcfo/w-d-xo.html
Atleast in first 10 :D
Rockstar hasn't learned anything
I Do have the same stuttering on i5 2500 with a 3gig 1060, Do you think is this related to this wierd engine thing or its because its below slightly to the recommended spec(i5 2500k)? thanks for any thoughts on this.
this is not a cpu issue.... this is a motherboard and hard drive issue... the stuttering might be caused by the requests to draw texture, not being satisfied by the clients position, on the game map as the clients hardware cant keep up the cache to access its cache content library(textures objets etc etc)
By keeping ones settings lower, you cause your cam to draw a lesser distance, for both textures and mesh lods, and as the player turns or moves or draws in new stuff, it is lenient into drawing new objects on the threshold of its cam draw distance..... which then make is so that those objects right on the limit are not properly drawn or undrawn, while the ones u leaving behind are still requesting for the draw to be completed... a mesh can be there showing its lowest lod, but then the client could not be near enough to draw the texture...and this causes the stuttering.
this can be simply fixed by the developer changing the render volume LOD factor to a slightly higher setting, but by doing this, you will cripple the frame rate of those who run proper high end hyper threaded cpus with high end graphics cards...unless the RENDER VOLUME LOD factor is changed ONLY for certain graphics settings, that are common for 1080p players with low and but high core clock cpus on a poor low end monitor and graphics.
ALSO by doing so, those low end 1080p computer ups, will pull out less fps, so in those cases where a client might be able to push eg 180 FPS, he would experience a 150fps but at least stable
It is likely a 180 seconds fix on behalf of the developer, that can then be dropped in the next update.
That being said...it is a pity that the game is still on a old school philosophy of gaming instead of using a true sandbox like game play..I assume the developers do not wish to pay for servers supporting such more contemporary like platform.
I dont own the game but it seems Its basically a GTA 5 on horses?! basically a very old game, but do disregards this last comment, if it is LIVE a sandbox like game
@@AbyNeon This was all tested on the same SSDs and motherboard, so no, that is categorically false.
Rockstar will see this, and go "oh yeah, that's an issue" and still not do a damn thing about it.
No, they'll just copy paste some random response
They already got your money steev
That sounds like what Rockstar would do, so that's what they'll so. Let's not forget they'll give out a random cheap response.
@@mesicek7 They never fixed the stutter issue discussed in this video in the beginning though.
No they won't :p Running this at 120fps isn't really needed and not done by alot of people anyway. Crank it up to ultra and enjoy it and you won't hit that cap anyway. But you never know, maybe they will :p They should fix the damn launch and crash issues, no excuse for those!
That moment when your cpu isn't fast enough to cause game engine issues :(
xD
The issue can also be fixed by limiting the CPU power in the Windows power plan option without using any external programs. I permanently have it limited to a percentage and never had a problem, unlocked it to 100% power and bam, stutters.
5 GHZ min now ! lmao
cries in 3700x
@@unocualqu1era How did you do that please?
@@unocualqu1era The fact that you willing to accept this and didn't return it, is exactly the reason why Rockstar keep getting away with shit like this.
And it's not the first time. GTA IV was just as terrible, and GTA 5 was no better..
when the community cares more about the game than the dev/publisher ^^
Publisher can go fuck itself.
It's a sad reality friend! People should not support bs like this... Look at EA and ubisoft... Seems like Rockstar wants to tell them hold my beer and watch how you do it ;/ Edit and Bethesda....
@@west1329 ac odyessy performed way better than red dead 2 4k ultra (with max AA and motion blur) 51 fps vs 4k 34 fps.ubisoft games may not be that great for some people but the good thing is they never abandon them. Took rockstar 8 years to fix gta IV but it only reach 60 fps on max settings with 1080ti
@@dotalegendery3998 That doesn't mean ubisoft is in the clear. It just means most big AAA game companies are lazy when it comes to optimization. But fast to push out monetizations aka dlc's or some form of unnecessary money grab. And that is where I respect CDPR
@@west1329 cdpr is awesome.
i like how you doing the homework for the companies
Maybe Rockstar should be giving Steve a pay cheque for performing UAT testing cos they sure aren't doing it.
Rockstar knew, they just didn't fix it. QA finds tons of bugs that are never fixed.
Hana Song I’m sure rockstar is aware of this by now
any excuse to bust out the LN2 ;)
LN2? *Busts a nut*
The most unoptimized part of GTA V is the horrendous loading times in multiplayer.
Yeah, I moved the entire game from my HDD to my SSD and the loading times for multiplayer are almost exactly the same lmao
Brian Crowe Acolyte you could just check your disk activity graph in task manager before doing that ;)
online is always mostly about waiting in the queue
that is why I gave up on gta online
It is loads better than gtav in that regard.
RDO loads waaaaaaay faster than GTAO. RDO generally loads me up within 1 minute. Not even installed on an SSD either.
"Hi, we're Rockstar Games. We'll eventually give you our games on PC, but you'll have to figure out why they run so bad"
I thought only Bethesda did that 💀💀
They make hundreds of millions with gta5 and cant hire competent programmers
@@blooodtier820 Eh...Bethesda games run poorly everywhere but they've always been PC-first. Their stuff runs even *worse* on consoles if you can believe it. And given that half the point of Bethesda games is mods why would anyone even get them for consoles...
@Lost Khajiit Mods on consoles are extremely limited.
@@blooodtier820 Sad but true, let's hope they don't start Beth's Fallout 76 idiotic ideas too.
So it's a thread mutex/lock issue, possibly lock starvation. Those are a **pain** to debug.
Edit: I'd love to see the cracked, DRM-less version tested versus the official one.
maybe they can fix it lol
i hear the DRM can actually cause a lot of performance issues.. i wonder if that is the case here.
The cracked GTA V had the exact same high framerate issue like the legit GTA V.
These results and analyses are products of Steve and his team's incredible dedication to experimenting and a genuine interest for things we viewers care about. Keep it up, this is amazing and I learned a lot from it.
If I were just a regular Joe Shmoe trying to play a game, I'd be thinking my i5 or my 9700k had something wrong playing this game - instead of devs fixing their game they had an entire extra year to fix and optimize they just throw some DRM on it and put out a lazily bugfixed title that they let sit on a shelf after they probably got done developing the code for for the console port over a year and a half ago. Instead of realizing there's a problem with the game, some people might go thinking there's something wrong with their computer, and that's honestly pretty disheartening. Hopefully this vid and others on the topic will help people with these CPUs realize it's the game's optimization quirks and not their computers that have something wrong with them.
EDIT: that feel when my type of comment gets called out mid video
/humbled 😂
Extremely good point and well-said. People could end up spending money to try and 'fix' this, which is just sad. The good news is that running higher graphics settings will work around the issue by dropping framerate, but there's still a chance people upgrade CPUs without truly needing to. We'd love to see Rockstar fix this. We emailed Intel to see if they can maybe put some more pressure on Rockstar.
@phillip martin ahh wot
@phillip martin They don't need to be overclocked. They were stock. Why are you embellishing your narrative with lies?
@@GamersNexus I have an i5 6500 and I get horrible fps drops and stuttering /freezing when I get to Valentine, (I get freezing outside Valentine) I realise that this cpu is old but I have tried moving all settings to low and get the exact same performance
Yup then put out the PR that the game is just so glorious that it's "very demanding". Same happened with AC:Origins + DRM poor performance. And paid and/or bootlicking channels/sites - along with AAA's fanboy armies - vehemently call out anyone pointing out the game's poor optimization as uncultured swine who "do not understand game development" (as they sniff their own farts).
"No one knows what they are talking about " That line there made my day , its so true .
I have found that turning async on and using Vulkan has resolved the problem i was having with the game crashing every half hour.
Strange. Out of curiosity, what hardware?
@@GamersNexus I am running at 3700x at stock with a 2080TI at stock at 3440x1440. Prior to trying this i had attempted every fix suggested by the community, rockstar etc.
Same here. Game ran fine at high settings, but would just crash every 30 minutes or so. 2700x @ 4.2Ghz with a RTX 2060 Super at 1080p. Since turning Async compute on, I've been able to play the last 2 nights with zero crashing. Played roughly 5 hours each night without restarting the game once.
@@GamersNexus Turning async on helped for me too. I can't use DX12 because it has lots of texture loading issues where in some cases it won't load the entire ground. So I was forced to use Vulkan but I was dealing with constant hitching no matter what settings I used. Then I saw a video about turning async on and that got rid of all the hitching I was experiencing. My system has a 2700x with a Vega 64 and I'm playing @1440 in case you were wondering. (edit for specs)
Yeh same here. My game is running super smooth now that I enabled the async compute in the system.xml file. 3900x, 2080ti.
I love how you guys put the blue bars going down the side to match when you stop talking about a graph. Really helps skip things that aren't relevant to my rig (like AMD charts)
crazy all the 15 to 30 minute videos uploaded on just how to get this to run right, and the nutty steps to get it too lol. No wonder so many people still love consoles. This game, like most junked up console ports, should just run. period. only the pc market can developers get away with this comedy over and over again. I think there is a fun factor for folks who post vids like this. They won't admit it though, but these crap ports are a goldmine for some. this video took some serious dedicated research. very nicely done.
It's a nice dream to think ports should "just run," but in reality it requires a hundred times more bug-fixing because of the wide variety of PC hardware.
@DANK Nope, same world. That's why so many people have consoles: they can compare the two gaming experiences and choose the one they prefer. Or both. And "fagboy?" You seem to have veered off course.
@DANK keep at it, you are really good at silly trolling! 😂😂
@nimrodery
even since the options of day1 patches and endless updates then sure of course "just run" is now just a pipe dream since consumers will tolerate piss poor BS port releases on PC that require 150 youtube tutorials on how to get proper settings just to get 'below high' to run stable year after year.
Stop preordering. Wait the release is close to final.
it's interesting that it's thread based. In a group of 4 of us, the two with 6600K got the stutters, but those with an 8700K and 6700K did not. After extensive testing (equalising all factors, disabling HT etc) this lead us to believe it to be HT specific, not thread specific. Its good to see additional testing with a wider use base expanding on this, even if it disproves our theory.
I disagree however with the statement that limiting the framerate to 120 will stop the issue. I ran the benchmark, with the game GPU bound (60 FPS max, 40 ave, GPU @100%, CPU@70%) and the frame freezes still occur
Also run the 6600k at avg 80 fps and the issue occurs for me.
my game still runs like this idk what to do
This moment when you enjoy the reviews/benchmarking way more than the game itself
I think there's no other game in the history that got so many reviews/benchmarks/statistics, it's getting ridiculous.
Good job by the way, as always.
13:37 THIS! This has been pissing me off so much, I'm glad you've taken the time to adress it.
Edit: L33T timestamp too
The bottleneck meme is worse, like way worse.
Especially if you sell hardware or generally advice people on what parts to get.
"Herp derp will a 9700k bottleneck a 2080Ti in this game" without mentioning any presets or resolution..
The worst thing though is when your trying to sell a machine to a guy who only wants to playthat one game, who again has no preset or resolution in mind, and don't comprehend the fact that pc performence isn't equal across the line..
People often use "unoptimized" as a slang for any kind of issue that might affect performance.
But I think thats just irrelevant *when* theres a real issue.
Take Stellaris for example: the game becomes unplayable in the end- sometimes during midgame.
I dont have to figure out the details to point out that theres something wrong with it.
So whats the problem to say its unoptimized?
People always claim unoptimized because it isn't running the way they want it to run. Yeah your card may have been a 1440p style card 3 years ago but it certainly isn't today. I can guarantee the same whiners will be out in full force when Cyberpunk lands
I have an fx 8120 oced 20% and a gtx 970
I can play every game in 1366x786 since day 1 at medium/ high (60 fps unless denuvo collapes my cpu - assassin creed odessy) settings. They all look same great quality
Sure never could get to 1080p but my monitor is 1366x768
People will complain for everything
@@Sundara229 because in this case people were claiming rdr2 is "unoptimized" just because they didnt get their expected fps. Stuff like "my 2080ti doesnt even hit 60fps at 4k ultra, such poor optimization rockstar smh" is just flat out wrong. Graphically demanding does not mean unoptimized. Strange stuttering at high frame rate however, does.
I built PCs since I was a kid and troubleshooted my share of hardware and software so I thought I had a good understanding of things...but when I watch you guys, I feel like a noob.
Building PCs is really pretty easy once you have the hardware you want picked out (little bit of research), but figuring out why shitty code makes your PC stutter takes dozens of hours of work and a lot of experience bench marking and number crunching. You have the experience in the hardware area and some general software troubleshooting but this stuff takes hours of time and very few people have the multiple platforms and extensive time available.
Building my systems last December I had a bad motherboard (did not boot), then the replacement had a bad primary ram slot and then I had a software conflict on the other system that caused random shutdowns and made it look like a hardware problem (Damn TT software). Takes time but I like stuff like that.
Tech Jesus has the benefit of this being his full time job and has developed a bunch of tools to help him benchmark.
I was crashing every 15-30 minutes without enabling Async Compute. Put that to 'true' and haven't crashed once since.
They fixed the stutter, todays update: Added an additional launch argument (-cpuLoadRebalancing) to rebalance workload on the CPU cores and avoid hitting an edge-case in certain NVIDIA graphics card drivers that causes significant stalls on 4-core and 6-core CPUs
Can I just say that I get the severe stutter regularly around the 50-60fps mark.
It's significantly worse on Vulkan than it is DX12. I trust you guys, but I get the same symptoms without hitting that cap.
Audio keeps playing, Gsync fps monitor shows maybe 2fps, resumes after a period, jumps to 100 refresh rate and then comes back to the Gsync matched 50ish
3440*1440, GTX 1080, 6600k @4.9
Have you tried shutting off the overclock to see if the issue still persists?
mobile.twitter.com/lewdstar2/status/1193712075807158272
These are the settings I used to get rid of the stuttering while going into large and complex landscapes and towns.
Its seems amd cards are unaffected
@@suiton20
I turned off the GPU overclock, but haven't done that to the CPU yet.
Realistically these parts are underpowered for that application, and they're both hanging around 100%
I've got two loose theories.
One is that something is happening when it hits 100% CPU and it hangs.
Two and slightly more probable..
It's graphics related issue.
The fact Gsync gives up after a hard stutter, resumes to 100hz before re-matching to the 50odd FPS the GPU can manage is suspect.. And Vulkan you have to leave Vsync on for Gsync to work (and suddenly it gets significantly worse) is suspect.
Have you monitored temperatures and gpu/cpu usage? Knowing which one is hitting 100% during the stutter will help narrow it down, and thermal issues is always the first thing I try to rule out.
Only people playing at 1080p with 2080 ti will run into this. Has to be a tiny percentage of people but still a important issue. I’m personally more concerned with why the game runs so poorly and is terribly optimized. Using anything besides MSAA is blur city, Using MSAA kills fps and makes textures/grass/foliage flicker. Game looks nice but shouldn’t run this bad.
I have a 4c/4t CPU (i5-6600k) and I get irregular, but massive freezing. Multiple seconds with garbled sounds.
Sounds like exactly what we saw on the 7600K.
@@GamersNexus I've been trying to diagnose the issue seeing if it had something to do with my overclocks but no, still manifests at stock. It happens at 720p too, so it definitely is an engine issue.
RDR2 came to PC quicker than GTA V, and this seems to be the price. My situation: the game doesn't save my settings (boots with 720p Low each time), the mouse cursor sometimes hangs around on screen, the aforementioned freezing, crashing to desktop...
All of this is so frustrating, because the game itself is absolutely fantastic.
My friend on an I5 6400 suffers with stuttering also, he has a GTX 970 and is using 1080p so is well under 100fps even nvm 140.
Same here: i5 6500, GTX 1060 6GB, well under 100fps and occasional but massive freezes.
@@Kekmit - those on 4C/4T CPUs try capping framerate to 30fps and see if the stutters still persist.
My experience differs from your data a little. I have an i5 8400 (6 cores with no ht) which is pushing a 1080gtx. I was tweaking to hit 1440p 60fps. During my benchmarks I was getting frozen frame issue at the beggining of the robbery scene. During this scene my cores maxed out, %100. Now I don't freeze up everytime I hit %100, but I only freeze up at times I am at %100. However my FPS (Even internally, I had vsync on) was no where near 140fps that you guys claimed. In order to fix this I used BES to prevent red dead 2 from filling in the top %3. This has worked like a charm for now.
13:39 This is a very specific example of an extremely large social problem these days.
The game freezes for 5 seconds every minute.
I want my money back
Do you have enough RAM? Enough threads? Is your game running from a secondary slow spinning storage drive? Do you meet any of the conditions noted above for causing/contributing to stuttering?
thats just bullet time
@@mdd1963 my specs are i7 7700k , 16 gb ram , gtx 1070 , 1 TB SSD and the game is running like trash .. i get stutters and freezes like crazy every 1 minute it stops for like 5 seconds .. you can hear them talk but the picture is not moving
@@Chelsea92223 have same issues but have 4670k, 8 GB ram and shitty old hdd. If not this issue game will be running pretty good on my pc
@@SkeltherBot My specs are even way better than the minimum req and max req .. this game is just an unoptimized piece of trash thats all
Quality content as always, my dude.
Well done for picking this up. What you would have had to troubleshoot to get there is MIND BLOWING
Tech Jesus rebukes the Rockstar Pharisees
@What Are you a 14 year old girl?
@What What's cringy about that?
Just an FYI, i came here due to the a-sync line in the settings XML, i have a 4930k and 5700xt, and despite a high framerate I was having issues with the stutter. Once i enabled that line, about 99.9% of the stutters I was having went away.
Can you test limiting CPU affinity to avoid core 0 (and 1 if it's hyperthreaded) on your next video? It's theoretically the fastest core but it's actually the slowest core when I compared their performance using a software called process lasso (thread racer feature). 1st physical core is used for windows services and SSD/HDD interrupts which are always happening in the background so I think this might be contributing to the stuttering problem.
Game just unplayable for me. Running a 4690k @ 4,5GHz, 16GB RAM and a 980ti, all settings cranked to lowest possible, 720p. Getting stutters and chops that last for many seconds, like every other second, I was shocked when you GPU analysis told that my 980ti is supposed to get 57fps on 1080p! While I can't even manage through the intro stage of the game!
Meanwhile, rockstar Devs
Dev: We have an issue that only happens if we combine a lot of factors
Manager: What is the chance of someone notice the issue?
Dev: Unlikely, no one will notice
Gamer Nexus: we notice the issue, here's the cause and bunch of tests.
Great job man, keep up the good work.
This kind of detailed informative content is the reason i watch you channel. Keep up the good work guys.
When you were giving an example of threads, typically you are correct. However, with Vulkan as the API, it will usually balance load across threads ( I put RDR2 across 12 threads, and it balances almost equally).
This is typical of a Vulkan implementation where they have multiple command pools across threads. What could be happening is that there are more than 8 queues at once, at times, and if you don't have enough hardware threads, it could be waiting to sync a couple of these queues, thus the stall. Why ~140 fps? Probably related to some internal tick frequency updating one of the queues.
If Asynch is "OFF" by default, and it is only reachable via the XML, something really weird is going on on my system. It was "ON" in my XML file (and I never touched this setting)
Running a R5 2600X, RX 580 8GB, 3000Mhz DDR4 on a Gigabyte B450 Aorus Elite. OS = Winblows 10
Its a difficulty feature!............... their time has to be spend making more ingame currency and DLC!
Steve, you and your team are ridiculously awesome for posting this.
Long story short: Rockstar Games is still unable to deliver a good PC port of their games.
Async compute is probably disabled because of issues.
I have a GTX970 and tried it as someone said it solved their crashing issues. Well I got problems with the images. Not a crash but I also did not tried it longer than 10min.
It seems to use a trianglestrip but does not render it in the right order. So you get really weird images.
Impressive amounts of work put into this, thanks for doing it, doubt they will fix the dang issue... No clue why they haven't patched/replaced that old engine but oh well... it's a beautiful game, sadly the online part for an already expensive game is way too money hungry and the offline is "story mode" should have some free roam in offline mode and heck even with friends.
2022 and I still have this issue, with an i7 11375H and a RTX 3060, I have zero issues with temperatures, it is the only fwken game that makes my CPU down speed randomly. Suddenly something happens that makes my CPU go from stable 4.3Ghz to variable speed hence my fps drops and become very anoying.
This port wasn't ready for release...
The async compute made the frametime flat, performance gains arent the key point is the cadence of frames and fluidity.
I get the stuttering as well and there is no way i reach that kind of fps with a gtx 1060 6gb + 7600k
Running Ryzen3600 with Tomahawk B450 16GB 3200mhz Ram,2070 suiper(everything on Ultra except volumetric lighting and water physics which is on high).While using DX12 I found,not during free roam,but during a mission,that entering towns was an issue.It would just freeze up.Also happened during that first bar fight in the mud.Turning on Vulkan for me solved all crashes so far,but introduced a mouse issue where I cannot see the mouse in menus or while using the map.There seems to be no perfect setting...instead you seem to be dealing with trade offs...now using the map is impossible...thank you Steve :-)
Speaking as a systems programmer, I can’t stand when testers tell me WHAT or WHY the root cause of a problem is just because they have specific test cases that break something.
Yes, you have a test case that breaks something. Thank you. Anything beyond that, you’re just guessing. Don’t direct people based on guesses, rockstar devs or anyone else involved in engineering. Some naive programmer will waste hours chasing nothing based on your theory - I have not ever had a single theory coming from a tester prove to be true. For all you know, some intern put a random function in that purposefully slows down the engine when over 140 fps.
The people that were guessing “hyperthreading” vs other things... it’s all just guesses. Great, helpful tests, but trying to prove a theory through a test case is not helpful.
The only people that know what the actual problem is are the people that fix the bugs. Report the bug, leave it at that.
So if you can't test, all you can do is guess, and you're against guessing. You employed?
I get where you are coming from, but testing and guessing might narrow the problem down. Especially since "the people that fix the bugs" have to reproduce and/or search for bugs too, no?
Sander169 good tests narrow a problem down, like the GN tests. Theories do not.
@@michaelthompson7217 So you have no use for step two in problem solving 101.
I get terrible stutter every 5 or so minutes with my i5 7600k, I'm so glad to see its not just me. I've been putting with it though for my 40+ hours in game getting so frustrated because these freezes last up to 10-15 seconds
I just hope they fix DX12 instability.
D12 is trash. Since the beginning and it will be always worse than 11.
Your a hardware master man. Unreal knowledge!
When a Gamers Nexus video drops at 3am so now you have something to watch.
Interesting findings, but I'm pretty sure that is not the entire picture. I'm playing the game on 1440p with a mixture of settings (mostly high) on a 1080TI. I'm getting nowhere near 140 FPS, mostly 50-70, and I still get the stuttering/freezing. Initially the game was unplayable, but after the latest patch it occurs much less frequently, but it is still there. That is on DX12, on Vulkan the stuttering/freezing is still present and is much more severe.
Specs:
i5-4690k @ 4.6GHZ
16GB DDR3
GTX 1080 TI
I'm still trying to fix the intermittent freezing issue... R* have stopped replying to my support tickets as well.
Same here so I sent 46 in one day. They are still bastards
The freezing happens on a test system 3570k with a 1070ti, but not on a 3930k with an rtx2070. The freezing actually causes Rockstar to drop you off the online server, if the freezes happen too often. We have been testing with other CPU's and GPU combos to see if it's heat related but nothing is conclusive.
So much coverage on a game I never had interest in playing. I get that it's popular for some reason, but I do enjoy the troubleshooting tech behind it.
Man, I've been out of the loop for so long. I didn't even know 8 core CPUs existed. Here I am running the game on a gen 3 i7-3770 quad core at 2.6-2.9 GHz no problem. Running a Frankenstein build that started as a 2012 Dell XPS 8500, and the last upgrade was an 8GB GTX 1080. Seeing any frames higher than 60 would require me to drop everything to low, or worse, play on 1080p instead of 1440p.
with my 7700k and gtx 1080ti game's going very smoothly, after each ~1 hour gameplay, game stutters for 3 seconds and suddenly crashes.
Bringing this back from the dead, same setup as you and my game hitches every 5 seconds, I haven't been able to make it go away for this past week. :/
Stuttering is not effecting my game the constant crashing that occurs after 15 minutes of play. Ryzen 7 1700x, RTX 2060, 16GB of ram, MSI B450 Tomahawk MB. WTF Rockstar?
This dead game better get redemption
.....before it gets 2 RED lol
red dead 2 killed my 1080ti. Blue screens and crashes ever since I started playing it, now it does it in other games too. good thing it still has warranty
This is the worst pc port I've ever experienced.
@facelessninetytwo Watch Dogs 2: "Am I a joke to you?"
I don't expect Rockstar to fix ANY performance issues with their games, especially after how little they did to improve GTA IV on PC. They just act like the game doesn't exist, and their comically late 'patch' to 'recognise more VRAM' did literally nothing of substance.
Steve, it's 3AM get some sleep. You need to sleep man... ಠ_ಠ
Thanks for the great content though :)
Someone should mix sleeping drug to his meals.
Hasnawi ok Ari Shaffir
Just scare the guy enough by saying lack of sleep leads to baldness.
Problem solved.
Still rocking an i7 8700k and loving it still to this day.
yh the 8700k will be around for some time, good choice
I really wished you'd left-align the labels on your charts. Right-aligning them, as you traditionally do, hampers readability significantly, IMHO, making it harder to follow the script even with the included highlighting.
Just for reference, this is what I'm proposing: imgur.com/a/DoyOZr0
This should have 1m views. Great work!!
Thread Dead Redemption
As a 1050ti/i5 3570k user: Enabling Async compute did actually rid my game entirely of the "4 core stutter" we've been seeing with older i5s and all, for others with the issue I'd reccomend giving it a go. It did not improve framerate or anything, but the game was actually playable, comfortably. So, if you're out there and having issues, maybe give it a go, there's no guarantee it'll work, as the video shows it sometimes doesn't, but it also could.
There's also a severe memory leak problem that manifests over time and the more locations you visit during the playing session (at least, in multiplayer and on Vulkan). It seems there is no upper cap to the amount of assets it keeps in RAM after loading them, as it eventually reaches 16 GB on my system and crashes the game (even where there's nothing running in the background besides the launcher, the game and a few minor essentials like Afterburner and Rivatuner). You can force it by travelling from Saint Denis to the western part of the map on foot/horseback and visiting as many towns, as possible, on your way.
VargVikernes1488 ah I see it’s like GTAV all over again... I still get stutters in GTAV after playing for like an hour, and it stutters everytime I hit a car, a post, crash my car, punch people... it stutters for a second.
So my 32gb should allow me to play longer, got it! Maybe I'll buy another another 32gb of memory so I can play even longer than that ;)
14:00 Correct Steve, most of the time people simply do not know. They don't have the raw hardware to test against to try and figure this stuff out. That is why I love it when you or other big techtubers take the time to try and figure this stuff out. It's fascinating, and QA at these major studios could learn more than a thing or two from you guys!
The problem with the RAGE. engine is that since 2007, RAGE integrated the third-party middleware components Euphoria and Bullet as character animation engine and physics engine, respectively. Middleware framework components have a tendency to cause more serious issues in games that are difficult to resolve than games using full blown game engines like Unity, Unreal, Frostbite and CryEngine do. Yes, all games using any game engine has bugs, but when you have three different frameworks with different source codes trying to work together in a single game, debugging and cleaning up code takes a lot longer. That said, RAGE's strengths are many, including Its ability to handle large open worlds, complex A.I. arrangements, weather effects, and a multitude of gameplay styles.
I like that you used liquid nitrogen to prove your point instead of just playing at like 720p with gimped settings
Why? The point is to make the cpu the bottleneck...
@@TreyM_channel They alleged it was an issue hitting a certain fps
Since I can't explain why a game isn't optimized, means that it IS IN FACT optimized. GOT IT 👌👌
I'm using a FX-8350 with a R9 290 and the game runs flawlessly for me. I do get crashes from time to time, but my frames arent bad on a mix of ultra, high, and medium. Its crazy how my old hardware works better than others with modern amazing computers. I hope R* fixes these issues. Great video as always Gamers Nexus!
Earliest I've ever been to a GN video
That might be why this game runs well on my old 8350FX with no issues at 1440
psssst, my FX 9590 says you might be right ;)
soo how do you fix this???? I have a high end pc rtx3090 and still getting stuttering!
"You might have one thread for rendering .. all your draw calls .. that's typically your most heavily loaded thread."
True in the sad old days and fixing this clear sticking point has been one of the main goals of both DX12 and Vulkan. Both of these newer APIs allow the spreading of rendering workload across multiple CPU threads. There is no longer any need for applications to do all rendering in a single rendering thread and this can have huge benefits for both performance and for battery life on mobile.
im using a 9900k and 2080ti, also 16gb 3600mhz cas 16, I seen joker productions video on enabling async compute, I didn't see any performance or stuttering improvement but that's because it wasn't stuttering for me to start with.... however I DID see stability improvement, I would crash all the time playing the game, since enabling this option I have not crashed in 2 solid days of playing it, a good 5-6 hours each day on the game. I would highly recommend enabling this, at least if your using the same setup as me, ive seen no negative impact to using it and as mentioned my crashing has stopped, completely.
my in game settings are a mixture of ultra and high using vulkan at 1440p, I average around 80fps, sometimes up at around 100fps although rare and sometimes dipping into the 60's.
The effort in getting those numbers. You have my upvote
Had the same problem using an overclocked i5 4670K (4C/4T) even with fps capped at 60. Using Process Lasso seems to have fixed the issue.
Bartłomiej Suski I still get hitching and freezes, same CPU, Process Lasso makes the freezes less time in length, but they still exist for me, mainly noticeable in Saint Denis.
@@CrisisBag Don't know if this will help but I configured the CPU Limiter in process lasso for rdr2.exe to reduce by 1 core for 1 sec any time CPU use is higher than 96%.
The async compute toggle is most likely off by default in the xml file because it's not actually in the game yet, likely the feature wasn't finished by shipping time and removed entirely. The people saying it results in improved performance are likely just reporting on a placebo.
Ad: ....frequency range 20 Hz - 40 kHz
Me: wait this cant be right. *checks amazon page, indeed states 20 Hz - 40 kHz.
Good job corsair advertising headphones in the range of ultra sounds (>20khz). Surprised they didn't go as far as "no one is even physically able to listen all the amazing sounds these can produce" or "drive your dog crazy by being able to play ultra sounds on your headphones"
Human hearing thresholds vary by person (and age). 20Hz - 20kHz is just the average. That said, going clear to 40kHz is probably a response to the trend towards 88.2kHz and 96kHz sampling frequencies in modern recording software.
that's standard practice in audio stuff. i've seen tweeters with 200k+ response and plots to prove it.
@@OtherTheDave Pls stop. Sampling frequency has nothing to do with the frequencies being produced. Almost any audio (music, movies, games) has been mastered with filters at 20khz, so these frequencies aren't even there. Not even to mention that loud ultra sounds on that range can damage your hearing or cause headaches. We can only perceive some ultra sounds by bone conduction (certainly not headphones!). There is reason 20khz is considered the upper limit of human hearing and is the standard on any serious audio equipment. Use an online tone generator and try to hear a loud tone over 14khz for 5 minutes, then come back and tell me how you feel.
@@emperorSbraz Just because they exist, doesn't mean they should. Its just marketing bs to appear better on paper. Bigger number is always better right? so I guess those scientists don't really know anything, naming anything above 20khz "ultra sounds" because they can;t be heard by humans. There are many discussions on "audiophile" forums of people claiming to hear over 20khz, but its just the same "elitists" who claim to hear differences between a 10.000$ cable and a 10.100$ cable. Only believe what you read when you they have provided blind testing proof, which some forums even require. You can feel (not hear) sounds over 20khz through bone conduction, but not through air (speakers/headphones) and its still not comfortable.
Don't fall for marketing bs. This is not like "how many fps the eye can see" the eyes don't "see" in frames, but ears hear in frequencies.
@@Lambretta_G
ah goddammit i wrote a cool response but the message vanished. :(
anyway, i know it's all bs. what i meant was it's standard practice *and it's nothing to be trusted*.
Epic epic work bringing these issues to light.
My guess would be intermittent deadlocks between the threads. Since the game is running on threading capable graphics API:s (Vulkan, DX12) and is originally written for very CPU constrained but high-thread count CPU:s in the consoles, I'd wager it's not as simple as "one thread does this, one thread does that".
Rather I'm guessing they have some work dispatching mechanic where a thread can do any kind of work, be it physics, graphics or sound related, etc. Each frame is associated with X number of jobs that need to be completed before the frame is fully rendered. These jobs have inter-dependencies, where some jobs need to be completed before other jobs.
In a deadlock-scenario, two or more threads end up waiting for each other to finish. As you stress a highly threaded system by eg. increasing the frame-rate, the more likely you are to run into these kinds of bugs.
To prevent the game from crashing in a deadlock scenario they probably have some kind of timeout for how long a job can take, say 100ms. If a thread takes longer than that to complete a job, it is terminated and work is re-added to the job queue. This resolves the deadlock but at the cost of severe stuttering.
On 1660 super game was having extremely weird stutters where steam overlay was showing 80+ fps but gameplay was stuttery as hell , the problem got fixed once i went dx12, however after turning on async computing in xml it fixed stuttering when using vulkan ,i have i7-6700k paired with gpu
Why wont my mouse disappear..... ffs..
There are workarounds for that, enabling mouse trails in windows, running vulkan and enabling in-game vsync will work.
Put electrical tape over it.
@@cmdrflint9115 I've used that method, but is a poor work around for something that shouldn't be an issue.
@@LeoNyeDis play with a controller 😂
@@davidhiggins2804 have also tried this, but when you go to the weapon wheel it wants to throw my mouse to the center... lol 🤣
I exeperienced a very similar issue in Witcher 3 (after patch 1.07) with a dual core / dual thread cpu (G3258). During the stutter the context switch of the cpu skyrocketed from thousands to millions, and the result was a still image for seconds. Using a cpu limiter like BES (Battle Encoder Shirase) helped, basically the cpu was chocking itself and using less power prevented the problem. People with four or more cores did not had the same issue.
When I run dx12 it runs beautifully but I get a mouse cursor I can't get rid of. With Vulkan, no cursor but micro stutter. 9900k, 2080ti. What do? Thanks papa Steve
On Vulkan and DX12 - zero stutters or micro-stutters here with 3700X/GTX 970. What framerate are you targeting?
somewhere in Rockstar Support's Twitter replies (on 1 or 2 of their posts) i saw people posting a fix for this, if you dig through there you should find it, hope it helps you. o/
Great work Steve, vg to see these independent reviews finding what game developers should already have fixed 😂😝. Love both my mod mats (med & lrg) Anna my March I received a little while back. Keep up the great work and merch. Cheers from Australia 🇦🇺
i can see amd using this against the "real world performamce" meme made by intel :p
On 60 hz monitors use vsync, on 120hz monitors use vsync half refresh rate, on 240 hz monitors use framerate limiter in Nvidea profile inspector and cap the fps at 60. - no microstuttering anymore.
"but games won't need more cores for a long time, it's all about frequency" /s
I mean we wouldn't if developers would stop slapping physics processing onto the cpu like it's 1995 still.
Games have been using more than 4 cores for years, since Xbox 360 days
@@vyor8837 What drugs are you on?
"Long answer: The nature of Physics calculations are a series of small arithmetic calculations that can be calculated in a highly parallel fashion. And a GPU, with its ridiculous number of stream processors, handles these types of calculations incredibly well. A GPU will perform FAR better on these specific types of short, highly parallel computations than a general purpose CPU.
If you offloaded the physics calculations onto the CPU, it is true that you would free up resources on the GPU to compute other things. But it would actually severely decrease your framerate performance, because your CPU is going to run these physics calculations at a much slower rate than your GPU could."
@@vyor8837 Appealing to authority doesn't make you right. You could just be a shit developer. Also I'm assuming you don't have access to gpu based physics engines.
Literally everywhere I look people say most physics calculations pairs well with parallel.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-purpose_computing_on_graphics_processing_units
There's literally a whole section dedicated to gpu bound physics processing.
Rockstar should pay you a fat bounty for giving them such in depth analysis on how to improve their broken product.
I feel like you're missing something as I couldn't relate to my results. I am nowhere near the 100+fps target, yet am experiencing several second freezes if not using process lasso. 7700k 4C/4T (no ht) at 5.0ghz and a 1080ti, 2560x1080 all on ultra exept reflections low, no msaa, water 9/10, volumetrics high - avg 60fps. using process lasso (in options force mode enabled) to disable 1 core when rdr2.exe uses 98%cpu it completely eliminates stutters(freezes).. is this a different freezing issue?
SWATsqad process lasso is an awesome utility. I use it on most software (especially when everything is using thread 0) to spread the load. It's definitely worth the price.
R* should have themselves inserted proper code to handle high cpu usage...not make their customers who are paying for their game to go through that headache.
David Hall yeah its a good piece of software. I recommend this over the BES solution in this case as stutters are completely eliminated. though I can't wrap my head around as to why. I know steve said he is only focusing on this high fps case, but i feel like these are related and would love him to try this solution on the 9700k.
is the game on a hardrive?
@@bobhumplick4213 No thank you.
This hasn’t aged well and should be redone. I and others have the exact same issue in the exact same place in the benchmark demonstrated at the start of this video and have demonstrated it with different processors, GPUs and MBs. It seems you have found one example of the issue and decided to then conclude everyone else didn’t know what they are talking about and left it at that. Unfortunately it seems you missed the wider picture and an interesting issue that’s still there to this day.
So you guys put out a 30 min video to highlight an issue with Rockstar's engine while playing Red Dead 2 that will virtually effect no one? No one is hitting 140 fps in this game with the best hardware on the market, let alone the hardware needed to recreate this issue. Then you throw in a comment about how gamers saying that this game is unoptimized due to the many, many, MANY gamers who are experiencing performance issues with this game doesn't know what they're talking about? Forget the graphical settings let's talk about the countless gamers who are experiencing frequent crashes. Are numerous crashes to desktop per gaming session a feature that is usually present within "well optimized" games?