Jasmine from Book of Mormon Central: Answering HARD questions!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Jasmine with Book of Mormon Central sits down with The Come Back Podcast to answer hard questions submitted from our listeners.
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"I have no desire to open that can of worms" - could not agree more. When you have lived a life in sin and darkness and found your way back your just dont have a desire to even dip your toe back into it. ❤
I love listening to two intelligent people and hear their strong testimonies.
I love the theory that women have been given charge over bringing life into the world and men are in charge of bringing us into the presence of God - it’s like both women and men need assistance from the other to accomplish their given roles - makes sense why men have such a small (but significant) role in bringing life to the earth! Just like our duties are smaller (but significant) in bringing people to God
It is so nice to see both of you very enthusiastic about the Church and gospel. It warms my heart and gives me peace in this world of negativity.
Thank you Jasmine. You are an amazing example of faithfulness and knowledge - the glory of God. The Hafen's book is an amazing book that I am reading again for the 3rd time.
Jasmine is such a treasure!
I always thought the Provo "central" frats dug her up from under somewhere. 😆
The people that come on your show and share their comeback stories has been so inspiring and uplifting for me personally. My heart goes out to those who struggle with religion, faith, and life in general. Have faith in your future. Thank you for sharing.
Many many thanks for your discussion ladies. When you said that peace came to you when at a Church meeting when a hymn was sung at a time when you was struggling with doubts and unanswered questions l could really relate with that. No Church or faith or human philosophy has all answers to all questions and neither is it necessary. The Holy Ghost has this beautiful personal way of touching our minds and and heart s to let us know what we are following is of God and His son Jesus Christ
I have had this happen and continue to do so as l live and love my faith as a Church member. I have seen and experienced the love and power of the Lord working with us as a people and a Church many many times. That is not to say that the Lord doesn't love and communicate and use his children from other religions and faiths to fulfill his purposes in His love and welfare for their happiness and salvation. God bless you both and all your loved ones. Keep up the good work 🙏❤️😊
I love this interview and downloaded the Scripture Plus app. I have seen the Scripture Central videos which are wonderful and my kids NEVER let us miss the weekly Line Upon Line videos. They adore them! One thing that really struck me during this interview on topics that have left me with questions in my life were how her answers at one point or another reflected something I had learned or that God had comforted me with over the years. Ultimately God doesn’t give up on us and we shouldn’t try to pull away from Him.
Excellent conversation! I learned so much! Thank you for your efforts to calm doubts and help us think clearly and rationally.
Love this podcast! Love her explanations a resources to go to. Thank you for your time and putting these podcasts together! ❤️
31:15 it peaked my interest when you said, “It’s no secret that JS was a polygamist.” We moved a lot being military. I was a young mom in the 1980-90s. I recall many times in RS being taught in many different wards that it was a lie of anti-Mormons that JS had more wives than just Emma.
Until the internet came about (late 1990s), I had no idea that it wasn’t a “lie of anti-Mormons,” that it was actually true. Most of my life it was a huge secret.
They still hide the polyandry. This was a huge part of Joseph smith’s life. 1/3 of all of smith’s wives were already married.
Polygamy and Joseph having multiple wives was never a mystery for me. My great grandfather was a polygamist and I grew up knowing and loving cousins from the “other “ wife. I’m so grateful for these wonderful cousins. I’ve been surprised by so many members Faith being shattered by this knowledge or lack thereof.
There’s some historians who claim Joseph Smith was not a polygamist at all… so lots to dig in on there. But in the end, is God real? I believe the answer is yes.
That's interesting. I'm not sure who told you otherwise,but I grew up in south Texas, my parents were converts and I knew JS was a polygamist, as were many native americans, and other main stream denominations of the era. Yes, it's weird to us now in the US/western cultures, although polygamy is still practiced worldwide. In the USA, it is normal to have multiple baby mammas or baby daddies.
Well I remember being taught that in Seminary at 14
These were the best answers I have ever heard explaining questions I get all the time. Wish I had listened to this 5 years ago.
As well thank u for sharing your temple experience. I had the same experience going in at 28 thinking this is different. It was probably my 6th time going till it seemed normal
I am so happy to hear this was helpful for you!
@@Come.Back.Podcast Amos 3:1-2, Psalm 147:19-20, tells us that the Mormon church is not GOD'S Church, it also tells us that GOD has never dealt with no other Nation of people but Israel, So Joseph Smith lied Again,
@@Come.Back.Podcast The Mormons are nothing but deceived people, They don't know what day the Sabbath is, which is ( Saturday) They don't know when Jesus became the son of GOD According to the Bible, Joseph Smith didn't even know that GOD and Jesus are black, the 12 tribes of Israel are all black people, Joseph Smith didn't know that everybody in the Bible was black until Nebuchadnezzar showed up in ( 2kings) Didn't know Israelite family migrate here from Israel in 600 BC, Another lie that the Mormons teach is Jesus and Satan are brothers, Jesus is ( GOD Almighty and he has no Brother, And besides Satan is a fallen angel
Thank you for these podcasts. ❤
How cool is this one Jasmine. I’ve been working with ScripturePlus doing my scripture studies for the last 9 months. Then we have Ashley from the Come Back podcast together. Such a great podcast. I’ve learned so much from the two of you in my journey back. We are all a product of polygamy. My great great grandfather received revelation to end polygamy. A lot of people think he only abolished it was for statehood. Reading in his personal journal statehood was the furthest thing from his mind it was truly Gods word.
How interesting, is his journal available somewhere?
@@beefmaster4 yes. The book title is Wilford Woodruff, history of his life and labors, by Matthias F Crowley. I actually have a signed copy by the author. It’s written from his journals.
great conversation. Thank you.
President Nelson said in women’s conference that endowed women have the priesthood. The priesthood is the power to enact the power of God. We create human beings! What does that tell you?
That is a great point regarding the tattoos versus the subject matter being discussed. I never thought of that that makes so much says excellent job you all.
37:13 minute marker, the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God. The power of God was manifested in the Urim and Thumim for Joseph Smith as much as it was for David’s stone to kill Goliath!
I had a change of heart learning I was from a 2nd wife as well and I am so grateful they made that sacrifice so I could have the gospel as well. Thanks for tackling some tough questions. The church gives so many opportunities for women, tell us other churches that give as many. We aren’t bishops but I honestly don’t know any women that want to. We have enough responsibilities.
Opportunities as peons. Not one women as a general authority for the Church or Apostle or Prophetess. Bull shit callings. 😂😂
Regarding women and the priesthood, I have a few thoughts. First, women don't need to be ordained to an office in the priesthood in order to exercise priesthood power. Men do need to first be ordained. (The temple ordinances prove this.) All men and women are individuals and different in so many ways. Still, in general, the natural characteristics of women are more spiritual (loving, kind, patient, nurturing), and conversely, the natural characteristics of men are more temporal (e.g., hunting, providing, building structures). Ordination forces men to take on more spiritual responsibilities. Responsibilities that many men would otherwise be likely to ignore. Why don't women need to be ordained? Perhaps because their nature is more spiritual--more god-like. A final thought: in the six days of creation, each of God's creations became more complex and more impressive. What was God's final creation? Man? No. Woman was God's final creation, the crowning product of the entire creation process. The more that women try to be like men, they are actually lowering themselves, not elevating themselves. As a man, I consider myself fortunate to be joined eternally to one of God's crowning creations and to have the opportunity to become one with her.
Your post reminded me of Elder Oaks' talk called, "The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood."
Way to mansplain it.
@@joshua.snyder What is mansplaining, and how does that apply in any way to my thoughts on the topic?
@@daveduncan2748 A man explaining to a woman how things work in a condecending manner. It comes naturally to men patriarchal systems.
@@joshua.snyder Ah. So your comment was irrelevant to me sharing my thoughts on the topic. That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure since your comment confused me. Thanks for clarifying. Not that I think a person's sex matters as much as a lot of other things. But I realize that some people are sexist, and that for them, a person's sex matters much more than relevant things.
Jasmine, about 50+ years I read Sandra Tanners book and found the veil was parallel to the mason veil ceremony.
thanks sisters, Very beautiful work
Jasmine is amazing! I just love her mind and love listening to her share.
51:50 Don Bradley has an amazing perspective regarding the endowment that he's been sharing on Ward Radio and the Let's Get Real podcasts. Definitely worth checking out!
I love ward radio I watched all of his episodes on there!
Don Badly is one epic dude! But dang.... he's gotten of the history SO WRONG you can't help but laugh 😆. Super cool dude though
@@StompMom5 and what exactly are your credentials to say otherwise?
Powerful!
AMAZING 🤩 Thank you so much!
Until something way better comes along, I am sticking with the true church. I have studied other churches and religions and nothing resonates with me and my solid beliefs. Humans are not perfect and neither are any organizations. Heaven is perfect and that is where we all want to be one day. Life is too short to give any energy to doubt and half truths.
Match it. All these people who say it’s fraudulent, I say match it. (Tad Callister asks the same thing) Go write something that is similar and that resembles pre-creed Christianity. I’ll wait…(but you can only do it the way JS did…no prewritten rough draft, no computer or word processor or typewriter, can’t have read many books, and can only rely on what people in that area of the world would have 100% known at the time. In only 65 days. Ready, GO!
I’ve thought about the stones a bit. I don’t care what he used, JS “translated” the record of the Nephites written on metal plates as he states. What I think is neat, is that God has had prophets and others use tools to do his work. A staff, hair, fishing nets, stones, Jesus himself used mud and his own spit, etc. None of them really needed to use the tools, but they were asked to use them, Cool stuff.
You said, “Match it. All these people who say it’s fraudulent, I say match it. (Tad Callister asks the same thing) Go write something that is similar and that resembles pre-creed Christianity. I’ll wait…(but you can only do it the way JS did…no prewritten rough draft, no computer or word processor or typewriter, can’t have read many books, and can only rely on what people in that area of the world would have 100% known at the time. In only 65 days. Ready, GO!”
This is a common argument, that the BofM is true and of divine origin because Joseph Smith was a poor, uneducated, ignorant farmboy and, therefore, would have been incapable of producing a book like the BofM. His lack of education, ability to start immediately where he left off between sessions without any reference to books or manuscripts, and the short time it took him to produce the the BofM must, therefore, mean that there was divine assistance in the production of the BofM, that Joseph Smith was a Prophet and Seer, and that the BofM is divine revelation from God. This argument is an example of a naturalistic comparison to support the authenticity of the BofM.
Joseph Smith produced the BofM in 1829. Andrew Jackson Davis, another early American “prophet and a seer”, produced The Principles of Nature in 1847. There are MANY similarities between Joseph Smith and Andrew Jackson Davis. A few similarities include: Andrew, like Joseph, was a practitioner of folk magic. Andrew was 20 years old when he dictated The Principles of Nature, only had five months of formal education, produced it in about 78.5 working days, the work contained about 320,000 words, and many of his readers treated the book as new scripture. Andrew was blindfolded during the dictation process, did not refer to any notes, books, or manuscripts during the sessions, would begin the session immediately where he left off before, dictated the majority of his work one phrase at a time pausing after each phrase and waiting for the operator or scribe to repeat each line back to him to make sure what he dictated was received and written down correctly, would spell out unfamiliar words, and included chiasmus.
“In discussions concerning the origins and nature of the Book of Mormon, the fixation on naturalistic comparisons continues to thrive as a prominent and insistent need. The persistent creation of arbitrary taxonomies that divide and subdivide lists of selective criteria in an effort to privilege a predetermined chosen text suggests that such naturalistic comparisons play a far more important role in the cultural performance of faith and belief in the Book of Mormon than is usually acknowledged (or theologically desirable). Such lists attempt to manufacture miracles with an impressive array of contested categories, such as natural versus supernatural composition; conscious versus unconscious production; the purported significance of lengthy texts; the fixation on (often irrelevant) stylistic differences; dubious lists of information that the speaker allegedly could not possibly have known; and, above all, the purported ignorance and illiteracy of the person producing the work. Given that such non-theological issues ideally do not participate in the confirmation of faith, the inordinate obsession with such naturalistic comparisons would seem to offer a troubling distraction, sending the tacit signal to the audience of believers that such comparisons and criteria must indeed be a crucial if unofficial component of faith.
The introduction of selective criteria, however, presents a double-edged sword that cuts both ways. We might, for example, create a new framework of naturalistic criteria, one calculated to dismiss Smith and the Book of Mormon in favor of Davis and The Principles of Nature: 1) The author or translator must be only twenty years of age or younger when he or she produces the work; 2) The author or translator cannot receive financial support from outside sources during the course of the project but must financially support himself or herself and an associate for the duration of the work; 3) The inspired text must consist of no less than 300,000 words, without being artificially expanded by the incorporation of extensive passages from other texts, especially the Bible; 4) When describing historical events and circumstances, the subject must frequently refer to known historical events and traditions that witnesses can independently verify for accuracy, using sources outside the text; 5) As evidence of truly divine revelation, the author must predict the existence of a planet in the solar system before the scientific community has discovered that same celestial body; and, finally, 6) When in a visionary state, the revelator must have the ability to utter phrases in Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and Sanskrit, even though the subject has never studied such languages, and then have a reputable university professor of Hebrew witness and verify such a feat. If we were to accept this arbitrary list of criteria, we might hail Andrew Jackson Davis as a true prophet and seer, while Joseph Smith would be disqualified at every point along the way." (The Book of Mormon and the Limits of Naturalistic Criteria: Comparing Joseph Smith and Andrew Jackson Davis, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, 2020, p 100-103)
To learn more about the similarities between Joseph Smith’s and Andrew Jackson Davis’ “miraculous” productions, read: The Book of Mormon and the Limits of Naturalistic Criteria: Comparing Joseph Smith and Andrew Jackson Davis, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, 2020, p 73-103
Also, Joseph Smith and Andrew Jackson Davis are not the only ones that have produced books/writings in this same “miraculous” way. There are many other examples. I recommend you read: SPIRIT WRITING: ANOTHER LOOK AT THE BOOK OF MORMON - How did Joseph Smith produce our modern scriptures?, Scott C. Dunn, Sunstone Magazine, June 1985, p 16-26
You said, "I’ve thought about the stones a bit. I don’t care what he used, JS “translated” the record of the Nephites written on metal plates as he states. What I think is neat, is that God has had prophets and others use tools to do his work. A staff, hair, fishing nets, stones, Jesus himself used mud and his own spit, etc. None of them really needed to use the tools, but they were asked to use them, Cool stuff."
You may not care but many people do care. I care because LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, who claim to speak for God, claim they "will always teach the truth", and claim that they cannot lead members astray, have taught and testified that JS used the Urim and Thummin and that JS did NOT use the Seer stone to "translate" the BofM. Those statements and testimonies are not true because the LDS Church now acknowledges, after previously denying it, that JS DID use the Seer stone to translate the BofM. I care because it is directly related to the trustworthiness of LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators claims/testimonies that they will "always teach the truth", will never lead members astray, and their counsel that we need to follow the prophet to not go astray.
@@adamholloway7963 oh hey! You always fascinate me …well not always but anyway.
Andrew Jackson Davis’ “trance” book as a response (and many others you claim similar) to what a very present and self-aware Joseph Smith did is interesting. But knowing what you believe and don’t believe about the LDS faith explains why you would see them as similar in a challenge to “match it”. Cool.
The two books and both occurrences couldn’t be less alike. I’m worried about you man. I truly am. The glory is to God in one, Jesus is the Redeemer in the same. The other, well, give me a few years to try and fully understand it and I’ll get back to you.
I’m looking for salvation, not a story by a man in a trance who was not invited to bring others to a relationship with their Savior that backs up other historical and spiritually documented occurrences with the same plan and it’s originators.
I believe in God, I believe He has a plan and that plan intended for His only Begotten Son Jesus, to atone for all mankind both physically (freely given 100% to all mankind) and spiritually (all of us will be placed in a “mansion” specific to our liking - to a deserved and unique happiness. Our spirits will not be uncomfortable based on what we felt and chose to be comforting - agency - during our earthly probation). I believe that that plan has been taught in various ways since the beginning from the Prophet Adam and restored (the beginning of the restoration of all things, a little here and a little there) by the Prophet Joseph Smith, needed due to gaps in its fullness reaching God’s children at times due to their unbelief.
We can go back and forth all you want. I know what I believe, I know what blessings I have received by belonging to what I believe to be the restored gospel of Christ on Earth. The light of Christ is in all of us, choosing to obey God is just that, our choice. He will sort it all out after this life I believe, so go your way and I’ll go mine. I will not mock your beliefs (which I’m still not quite sure are) or disbeliefs (I know you don’t love the LDS Faith) I’d appreciate it if you would do the same. You attack with what you don’t like about mine and other’s beliefs (you seem to not like any religion by your many comments) instead of inviting others to hear simply what YOU believe, it’s a successful tactic, good for you if destruction of the faith of believers is your goal.
I’ll be ignoring any more of your “You said” responses, if you want to tell me what YOU believe and what YOU follow, I’m all ears. Any and all responses from you telling me what you think I believe or how wrong I am will be ignored. Just tell me what YOU believe in. Can you do that?
@@dcarts5616 Apparently you didn't really look at the two articles I referenced for you because if you had, you would have noticed that others who produced books/writings similar to how JS did that were also "very present and self-aware". And, it was your post that challenged someone to provide an example of how someone else could have produced a book similar to how JS produced the BofM. Your underlying argument in your challenge is that JS could not have produced the BofM by himself and therefore, God must be behind it. I provided just two referenced to articles that clearly demonstrate that there are many other examples of people producing books/writings in a way that cannot be explained. So, according to your own logic, God must also be behind their creation as well. And, if God is helping humans produce books/writings, then those other books/writings would also, necessarily, be scripture from God. Any other conclusion requires special pleading and confirmation bias. [i.e. my Seer Stone is better than yours, Mine is of God and yours is of Satan, etc].
Based on your dismissive response to the examples I provided, it appears that you are invoking special pleading to maintain that the BofM and other LDS scripture are of God and other Books/writings created/produced by a similar miraculous/explainable manner that are not LDS cannon/scripture should not be considered as being from God.
If you disagree, please explain.
I acknowledge there there are things that we currently cannot explain based on our limited understanding. I do not, however, jump to the conclusion that God must be behind the explainable. That is called the God of the gaps fallacy. I also, do not claim that something humans try to define as "God" does not exist. It is possible. Having acknowledged those two points, I see zero credible evidence directly supporting that "God", if they/he/she/it does exist, is a white bearded anthropomorphic exalted human male as taught by the LDS Church.
If those beliefs make you feel good and you find happiness in those beliefs, I am not going to tell you to stop believing them. By all means, pursue your happiness.
I believe the difference between you and I is that I choose to root my beliefs in an objective/unbiased [as much as possible, anyway] logical and reasoned evaluation of the totality of evidence. Also, I will gladly change my beliefs to align with the most accurate evidence if the preponderance of evidence no longer supports my previous beliefs. I would rather admit that I am wrong about something and align myself with the evidence and the truth, than to continue to be misaligned with truth because I am unwilling to admit that I am wrong.
You said, "You attack with what you don’t like about mine and other’s beliefs (you seem to not like any religion by your many comments) instead of inviting others to hear simply what YOU believe, it’s a successful tactic, good for you if destruction of the faith of believers is your goal."
First, I do not consider sharing my, often but not always, critical LDS perspective as attacking anyone any more than I consider others sharing their pro LDS perspective as attacking me. Sharing a different perspective is not an "attack" on another's beliefs.
Second, my "goal" in sharing my perspective is not to destroy "the faith of believers". Most people I am aware of who have left the LDS church, including myself, and are publicly critical of it and its leaders are not doing it with the intent to destroy the church or to cause believing members discomfort or pain. Their and my intent is to warn and inform members and nonmembers of some of the serious problems, issues, and inconsistencies with Mormonism with the hope that:
1) the problems and issues can be fixed for the benefit of the members,
2) the inconsistencies can be openly discussed with the hope that LDS Leaders will openly, publicly, honestly, and fully acknowledge and address them, and
3) to raise members’ awareness of the problems, issues, and inconsistencies so that their participation in the church is a result of informed consent based on full disclosure and not misinformed consent based on partial disclosure.
I was born and raised in the LDS Church. Most of my friends and family are still members and I want the LDS Church to be better for their sake as well as for the rest of the members sake. The LDS Church can and should do/be better.
@@adamholloway7963 pedophiles on creep catching channels (like “to Catch a Predator”) all say the same as you. “I’m just here to help them. Try to steer them in the right direction. BLAH BLAH BLAH.”
You’re not on the hundreds of feeds where you are found, commenting and responding, to help anyone. Your goal is to destroy one’s faith (yes faith) and drag them down as you have been dragged down. I don’t get it. “Informed consent” is a cop-out to do what you’re doing. Just admit it.
Thanks for not attempting to simplify complex issues, and for your faith and people focused answers. There is such a wide spectrum of information. From very prod-LDS apologists (Like John Gee - my view is that he is not a strong unbias expert on Egyptology) - to very anti-LDS critics - and a lot in-between- including some very good academic research.... At the end of the day, the "lens used" is a big factor... I think one of the blessings of the internet is that it is pushing the church from a "we are going to control a simple narrative" towards more transparency. Jasmine's comments show that people can dig deep into difficult issues and strengthen their faith...the challenge for the church is that this is not always the outcome - and that is where faith, love and humility come in.
no offense meant, but ...
"Like John Gee - my view is that he is not a strong unbias expert on Egyptology"
... where do you get the evidence or expertise to make that determination ?
and why would you not feel they same thing about the biased anti-mormon "experts."
Ironically, BoM central upholds a theory that has caused some to leave the church. They say the BoM happened in Mesoamerica despite the fact Joseph Smith and colleagues said events happened in North America, which is where evidence have been found, such as, metallic armor, swords, earthworks, etc. No such compelling evidence has ever been found; hence, many have had a faith crisis and left.
@@grayman7208 I just read your comment and here’s a thought. I have found that people who look to find what’s wrong, seek only negative information never spending as much time looking or learning about that which is truth. It’s easy to seek after one and it takes more effort to study scripture and the available records learning the gospel from the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. You may like the book on the lost 116 pages by Don Bradley because he does a great job explaining things of interest. I like his story of leaving the church and his journey back. God bless!
@@binmyrtmind
agreed )
i have that book,
just haven't had time to read it.
perhaps i should blow the cobwebs off )
This was so cool! Would you have her as a guest again? Or maybe the founder from Book of Mormon central?
The Holy Ghost has witnessed to my very core that the Book of Mormon, and the Book of Abraham are indeed the words of God. By living the principles taught in both books I have become a better person. I am a questioner by nature and God has taught me through His Spirit these books are true. Personal revelatory experiences have also confirmed them to me.
Thank you for sharing!
Jasmine you rock!!
Great video. Thanks for sharing
Your were humble and teachable then and now.
Really great both of you 👍
Polygamy. My FIL was a proud LDS eternal polygamist (he recently passed away). His 1st wife passed away years ago. He remarried and was eternally sealed to wife #2. Next time you are asked at a conference if you are a polygamist simply reply that my faith believes in eternal polygamy but NOT in earthly polygamy. I think that would be an accurate response. Note: I’m not for or against it as long as it’s between consenting adults.
Yea that sounds so awesome for the women. 😂😂😂😂. Sharing a husband. 😂😂😂😂😂. That sounds like heaven.😂🤣😂🤣
This is a good distinction. But the deceased wife cannot consent. I guess that's where the everything will be worked out after death comes in.
The value I've gained from the book - 99% . The little worries = 1% maybe
Amazing source of information. Personally, I've never had an issue with Plural Marriage. I have at least 4 ancestors who had plural wives in the Church, I've heard so many stories from my family history both good and bad regarding the personal practice of Plural Marriage. I have no doubts about why the early saints lived this eternal law, and why we in the church now, are required not to live it. Based on the personal histories of my ancestors, it was an extremely difficult law to live. I'm grateful not have to live it, at this time.
Plural marriage makes a lot more sense to me after getting a basic familiarity with evolutionary psychology. The truths of human sexual nature can be hard to admit from a perspective sheltered by a comfortable life in a technocratic liberal society, which also tends to try to make all religion safe and sentimental. (That's one of the reasons why I appreciate the Come Back Podcast so much.)
Louise Perry wrote a book called _The Case Against the Sexual Revolution._ In her recent interviews about it, she has pointed out that the sexual practices of the post-industrial world are becoming de facto polygamous, even if the increasingly unequal recreational couplings don't get solemnized into lifelong commitments. Making allowances for polygamy in the American frontier had practical benefits and might have been partly an attempt to partly relax the constraints on male sexuality that are fundamental to a stable society. Again, listening to Perry's reports helps make clear just how stringent and austere those constraints have to be. Perry calls monogamy "sexual socialism" and I think that's a neat way to put it.
The context in which Jacob son of Lehi condemned unauthorized polygamy was radically different from the American frontier of the 19th century, especially with the pioneer migrations.
By the way, Don Bradley made a convincing case that Fannie Alger was 18 when Joseph married her, not 15.
I love jasmine. She is young, fresh and passionate and so dang smart.
With regards to the translation process of the Book of Mormon I would highly recommend Royal Skousen's work. Simply youtube The translation of Book of Mormon interview with Royal Skousen.
What she says at the end is very important with The Gospel and everything in life .
Take your time with decisions esp serious ones . Haste makes waste
One hypothesis regarding Joseph's time in Free Masonry is for building alliances. The problem was that his lodge became too powerful.
Interesting point about the Temple rites and Freemasonry as a ready example of a system of symbol and ritual - particularly an esoteric one. The Catholic mass might have given some inspiration, but it is not esoteric. On the other side of it, our worship services aren't modeled on the Catholic mass or other High Church rites either: they have a distinctly Protestant character (and they certainly do not conform to the practices that Moroni reports among his people).
If our weekly worship was shaped by the readily available and familiar Puritan and Protestant models, why not have our esoteric practices shaped by a readily available model too? The core of the Endowment is much deeper, and that's what matters most.
One thing not mentioned is the stone that Joseph used to translate the BOM was the same stone that he used on treasure hunts to find lost treasure. He used the same rock in the hat method for treasure hunting (where they never found treasure) as he did for translating the BOM.
Oh that is great to hear how much practice he had before he was called to use it for its true purpose!
@@Come.Back.Podcast that's one way of looking at it! Or you can also view it as he used the rock in the hat to deceive people into finding treasure (and actually went to court in 1826 for it) and then used the same method for writing the BOM. Either way, it's interesting history that wasn't well known for a long time. Most artist depictions from the church have him reading off the Golden Plates which according to witnesses he never did. I'm not even sure why the plates were needed.
@@jpenir That is true I remember seeing those paintings. I think the plates were needed because of all the criticism he has received. It helps to have the witnesses and even for Joseph to witness them himself.
@@Come.Back.Podcast You said, "Oh that is great to hear how much practice he had before he was called to use it for its true purpose!"
Why do you believe God would have Joseph Smith use the exact same method he used to defraud people out of money to translate the Book of Mormon?
While we're at it, why did the LDS church teach for 170+ years that Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim which was, “a device ‘kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord’ and ‘handed down from generation to generation, for the purpose of interpreting languages’” to translate the gold plates into the BoM and then change its position in 2013 when it acknowledged that Joseph did not use the Urim and Thummim to translate the gold plates into the BoM but instead, put a rock he found while digging a well, “in a hat, pressed his face into the hat to block out extraneous light, and read aloud the English words that appeared on the instrument”? (Gospel Topic Essays: Book of Mormon Translation - LDS Church)
If Joseph Smith didn’t need the Urim and Thummim to translate the gold plates, why did the Lord have his Nephite prophets go through all the trouble of having it passed down from generation to generation, of protecting and hiding it to prevent it from being destroyed by the Lamanites, and having Moroni give it to Joseph Smith to translate the gold plates?
If Joseph Smith didn’t need the gold plates to produce the BoM, why did the Lord have his Nephite prophets go through all the trouble of creating metal plates, recording their history on the metal plates, handing the plates down from generation to generation, protecting and hiding those plates to prevent them from being destroyed by the Lamanites, and having Moroni give them to Joseph Smith to be translated?
Before you answer, please remember that according the LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators, God is omniscient and omnipotent.
@@adamholloway7963 First off I want to clarify that I am not a representative of the church - as in we are not hired to do this podcast, they probably don't even know about us. So I cannot answer those questions in their behalf. I think your question about preserving the golden plates is really interesting, I have actually thought that myself about why the church harps so much on the importance of journaling. There must be something more to it than we realize.
As far as God being omniscient and omnipotent , I don't rely on prophets telling me that to know that. I know that on my own. I think a lot of things you have asked me I have already answered in other threads. I hope this comes across that I am being sincere in my replies to you, I appreciate your questions and am going to give them some study and thought. Have a great night.
Post the question about the washing and annoitting please
A professor of religion from BYU has his class on polygamy posted on internet. His point was
More about the. Sealing aspects in the revelation. WHY when people discuss polygamy do they ignore Declaration 1? The church has declared that they will no longer solemnize plural marriages in the temple.
Why do you leave the greatest proof of all. The witness that you receive when you turn to God to access the Holy Ghost. God has all the answers and the Holy Spirit can bring those answers to you. This world is set up perfectly for our spiritual growth but you can't use it without
I am very impressed with both of you young ladies.
Just a few comments what you are dealing with today many in my generation also dealt with in the early 1970s.
My recommendation is try not to get caught up in the instruments of translation, albeit, seer stones, Urim and Thumin, diving rod, hat & stone, whatever. ( Getting a jury to considered a myriad of often conflicting, confusing, even inconsistent mechanics, methodology, means and usurpations is an old attorneys trick. Why? Because the oft conflicting & inconsistent mechanics found in mintiua more often than not creates doubt. For example , witness X said the car ran the red light; Witness Y said the car stop at the red light. Camera Z is blurred as to the red and green light but shows the car acceleration at the time of the yellow light
Nonetheless, the ultimate undistributed fact is that the car broadsided in the intersection another car killing the driver of the impacted vehicle Thus, to add to the confusion re the vehicles status re the traffic lights should not obscure the overall fact that the speeding vehicle broadsided another vehicle killing an occupant.
Likewise, in an analogous methodology, both , in terms of the book of Mormon and the book of Abraham there is committed to print a written word. Confusion over the specific mechanics and exact methodology of the hows of translation may never be resolved pre millinium. Nonetheless, the written printed word can be meticulously researched , pondered , cross referenced and studied. A prayerful witness can be sought and obtained. ( It doesn't matter the where's and how's the methodology of translation because the ultimate divine purpose is the inspired contents of the specific work, be it revealed thru a finger writing on a wall, a liahona , urim and Thumin, seer stone or celestial dream or vision. It is the ultimate power in the work product which will reveal the truthfulness of the fruits of the prophets labors.
I don't get the scripture plus app. It's like gospel library but less. I don't understand the advantage.
Apologetics has nothing to do with the truth, rather it subjectively defends a standpoint. There is nothing to defend, the truth defends for itself - without a brown stone
I as a female member Do Not need nor want to Hold the Priesthood in the same text as men. I know I can exercise it in many ways…
Can someone please provide scientific sources for resolution of anachronisms
Scripture plus app I will sowoad that thanks
The masons are shrinking. Because of this, they actually put their entire ceremony on TH-cam. I can say the only parallel is the pagentry. Maybe the storyline of good v evil, but that is as old as time, so I don't see that since their story is nothing like what you see in the temple. If you see it and have been to the temple, you would wonder why people make the comparison. Of, possibly secrecy, for us that is more sacredness, but either way, it's isn't talked about, so....maybe? But I would think that's a stretch
Loved this…Jasmine is so brilliant 😊
Where is the link to the inititory video? 18:30
Wonderful discussion! 💕☀️
I am enjoying this interview. I would say for the host, I know you may not want to read anti-material or the ces letter, but I think it'd be good for you to at least read the gospel topics essays or Saints Unscripted 'faith and beliefs' for understanding of the basic history or controversy surrounding e.g Joseph's practice of polygamy, seer stone and the bom translation or the Book of Abraham. I totally respect not wanting to dive into controversial history, however as a host it'd be good for you to be informed, especially to have more understanding to those who have struggled or do struggle with these things!
I think both of you came across as very sincere and loving people. I wanted to ask about a third possibility for Joseph Smith (the first and second mentioned during your discussion that he was either a prophet or a conman): Might he himself have been deceived? The Bible says that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light in 2 Corinthians 11:14. Thank you very much.
Thank you! My first thought to that question is, "by their fruits ye shall know them." There is so much good that comes from the church that it couldn't possibly be from Satan. It has lead so many people to discover Jesus and the atonement, it has worked miracles in so many people's lives and saved them from themselves, no way could, or would, Satan do anything like that.
That's interesting. Imagine what the church would look like if Satan tried to make it the opposite of Christlike. It would look Pharisaical, kinda like it looks today. Hmmm
Robert Ritner who was one of the world's leading Egyptologists did a 13 hour interview on the Book of Abraham on Mormon Stories podcast. Provides a lot of background. Recommended
You should read "A Case For the Book of Mormon" by Tad R Callister. Recommended
@@Come.Back.Podcast I actually plan to. I try to read both church resources/scholars (Brian Hales, gospel topics essays, etc) and non church resources. Good to have both perspectives
@@jpenir I think that is wonderful. I am a working mom and haven't had a lot of time to update our youtube. Our podcast is much more active. I think you would appreciate Bridger's episode and Dusty's episode. We will also be interviewing Don Bradley in the coming months so that is a good one for you as well.
I prove Robert Ritner wrong about the entire Book of Abraham. He had no Idea about the correct context that he thought he was translating. Let me show you exactly why he did it all wrong. Mormon stories is scared to death of this information getting out. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link Paul Gregersen to get there.
@Paul Gregersen it's not just Robert Ritner but every Egyptologist out there that says the BOA is not anything that Joseph said. In fact I just bought Dan Vogel's book on it and I'm looking forward to reading it. As I said above I try to listen to both sides of the argument but beyond TH-camrs spouting conspiracy theories I don't know one scholar or PhD who says Joseph got it right. Most now use the catalyst or some other model.
Yes women are allowed to be high priestess in the church marry megdolyn was the very first apostle in fact the very first person to witness the resurrection.
I was dissapointed when the host didn't appear to have any context for some of the questions, entirely leaning on the guest to explain it
Joseph Smith changed the pictures on the Abraham document. It is a document that shows that the LDS Doctrine believes in many Gods. It is a funeral Document of Osiris, who is the Egyptian God of the underworld and brother of Isis. it depicts the mythical embalming and resurrection of Osirus. Egyptologists have viewed the drawings and founds that Joseph Smiths interpretations were wrong. Many scholars disagree with Joseph Smiths rendition of the Papyri.
Joseph Smith was married to many women; the count is around 33 young women and women. There were fourteen-year old's among this group and some of the women were married to other men. The fact that the young girls were coerced into marrying Joseph by deceiving them in telling the girls that this marriage was for their salvation is a disgrace.
Love Jasmine!!!
th-cam.com/video/-p5toTejNMY/w-d-xo.html - Similar rationale to "you wouldn't be here if your mother wasn't raped", so now that means that rape is okay? Of course not.
If it were true, the arguments wouldn't be so weak.
Have you read "A Case For the Book of Mormon" by Tad R Callister? If not I highly suggest that you do, it is incredibly informative and enlightening. He is a very straight forward writer so you won't be wasting your time with any dishonesty or fluff.
@@Come.Back.Podcast I have not, but I served a mission. If the church cannot communicate to its missionaries that the church is true, then secondary fan fiction literature is just a side note.
@@Come.Back.Podcast i have and it’s an incredibly dishonest work of literature. it’s so full of straw men, ad hominems, and other fallacies it’s almost comical, especially coming from a non-mormon perspective where i’m not biased towards Tad’s “authority” in the church. keep in mind, Tad is literally a tax lawyer, his job was to make big companies’ shady accounting seem as “clean” as possible. so IF the church wasn’t true Tad would be the guy to write the best book convincing members why they need to pay their 10% so to speak
@@bradengv5187 Tad is an incredibly honest, educated, and esteemed professional. I take what he says very seriously. We have the opportunity to interview him in a few weeks. If you are truly interested in getting any answers to questions you are welcome to read his book and submit questions to us that we would be happy to talk about with him.
@@MerkieAE I completely disagree with your opinion, but that is ok. Perhaps you should write a counter book that is as well written and more accurate
I’m so tired of the men have the priesthood women have kids rational. Women don’t have kids without men. I think this reasoning trying to make sense of the unjust situation we find ourselves in, and I do not believe this is God’s plan for us.
Several years ago I prayed to God and asked about the question of plural marriage. And I feeli received an answer that In the preexistence there were several men and women who had chosen each other. And many men followed satan. Leaving women to come to earth and not having husbands. So God authorizes plural marriage. So these women could belong to husbands and have families. Most of these marriages were not consumated.
and yet the world births each year continue to show a very close 50/50 split in genders...
Joseph had no expertise in translating ancient languages, the papyri served as a catalyst for receiving revelation.
book of abraham facsimile being 10,000% incorrect. Literally no reasoning out of that one.
All of this information about the CES letter they are only reporting partial information. Information that is not complete. They are pointing this out to cause you to doubt.
I didn't hear any hard questions answered.
This is a very superficial look at some of the greatest critiques of the church; however, it fails to get to the root of the major issues. If you would like a deep dive on any topic, of your choosing, reach out. It would be nice if you did interviews with those of opposing views instead of only biased views by faithful members. Cheers.
This was an interesting conversation and a good illustration of the Mormon mindset. What it lacked in real information was made up for in entertainment value. I suppose this approach would work well for a 13 year old with little knowledge of the Church and a lot of peer pressure but for adults who know how to read and study, this approach falls pretty short. I think if you took a topic... any topic... and dove in deep and presented some real research... not superficial apologetics... this would be far more interesting and helpful to doubting members. Glossing over topics with dismissive overtones and presumptions about "truth", "facts" "belief" or "faith" destroys any credibility in arguments or explanations discussed here. Serious people will demand serious answers.... and as the "True Church" you should have pretty good answers with evidence to back it up. If your goal is to keep doubting members from asking serious questions and researching these questions then this format may be the way to go.... keep the "faithful" chapel Mormons distracted and fearful of real investigation and to maintain a superficial belief that their questions have good answers that have been addressed by "experts".... so they don't have to put the work in for themselves. This is what the Church has been doing since the beginning. Now that the internet is available, that tactic is failing, and the rapidly declining Church membership and activity level is a reflection of that fact.
It is pretty clear that you haven't listened to other episodes on our podcast. The point of what we are doing is trying to bring light to hard conversations and help people find their own answers to questions. No one working on this podcast or being featured on this podcast has lived a sheltered life and has plenty of experience of life outside of the church. As for demanding answers - I am not sure what to think of that. I have had undeniable spiritual experiences that have humbled me and brought me to my knees. To demand anything from God is incredibly arrogant and disrespectful. Seeking personal revelation and personal answers is what President Nelson has been preaching for years. Maintaining a deep knowledge and testimony of all aspects of the gospel is ones personal responsibility, I don't blame anyone in the church for something I don't know or understand.
@@Come.Back.Podcast You said, " I have had undeniable spiritual experiences that have humbled me and brought me to my knees."
Millions of other people in other religions have also had "undeniable spiritual experiences" that have told them that the LDS Church is not true, that Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, and that the Book of Mormon is not a real historical record of ancient Native Americans. If their "undeniable spiritual experiences" do not mean what they believe it means, then your "undeniable spiritual experiences" are just as prone to being wrong as theirs.
You said, "Seeking personal revelation and personal answers is what President Nelson has been preaching for years."
And if you look at all the teachings from all the LDS Prophets, including President Nelson, you will see that teachings regarding prophets as spokesman for God is circular logic and in the end, the church emphasizes the need to follow the prophet over anything else, including personal revelation.
Here is a summary of those teachings:
1) Prophets will only teach the truth and will never lead you astray.
2) You will be blessed if you follow the prophet and you will suffer if you do not.
3) Prophets are not perfect; therefore, they make mistakes, do not always speak for the Lord, and sometimes teach things that are incorrect.
4) Although prophets are imperfect and make mistakes, it is wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true.
5) You should not follow the prophets blindly but should rely on your own personal revelation to discern the truth.
6) If you receive personal revelation that something is true but it is contrary to what the current prophet teaches and current church doctrine, you have been deceived by Satan because prophets will only teach the truth and will never lead you astray. Refer to # 1 above.
If you believe I have misrepresented what the LDS Church teaches, let me know and I will gladly provide multiple "church approved" sources backing up each of the 6 teachings listed above.
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
@@randyrequilme8814 Every year, Santa Clause is able "to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder". And, coincidentally, similar to God, with Santa, "the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid" so that they can't understand how Santa does it.
Do you know how Santa does it?
How does Santa do it?
People have been trying to figure out and explain how he does it for centuries now and yet there is still no rational explanation from "wise men" of how Santa is able to give presents to all those children around the world in a single night.
What a "marvellous work" he is able to do, "even a marvellous work and a wonder"!!!
It defies any rational explanation. So, obviously, "the wisdom of [the] wise men" has perished, "and the understanding of [the] prudent men [has been] hid".
Do you know how Santa does it? If you do, then apply that same rational thought process to Joseph Smith and the LDS Church and you too can figure out how they did it.
Two choice daugbters of God
turning to God and using the Spirit to see, think feel and do as Christ would do . That is the process of becoming one with Christ . Why don't you teach these things to everyone. You are looking for answers in the Temporal World. All the problems are in the temporal world but all the solutions are in the Spiritual World. Everything should be a Holy Ghost issue, if you are using your Power of Agency correctly!
The dishonesty is incredible here and I'm amazed the host just watches bright-eyed without calling her guest out. Let me just point out the clearest examples.
Jasmine says "I absolutely resonate with that idea of being a life giver and that being a sacred priesthood role for me, whereas the men in my life being the ones who have...stewardship in officiating those ordinances that lead to death and the women officiate in some of those rights and sacred privileges of bringing life into the world" (18:32). In that quotation, she outlines her understanding of the doctrine being that the divine role of women is to bring life into this world, or in other words have children, and the divine role of men is to have the authority in the priesthood and in the church including authority over the women who may hold some less powerful levels of authority in the church.
However, she prefaces her whole argument saying: "I feel like there's been definitely a shift in some of the rhetoric we've seen in general conference around women in the priesthood like 50 years ago you had a lot more rhetoric and talk about very specific gender roles ...men have the priesthood [and] women have motherhood" (14:16). So where's the shift? Because as far as I can tell there is none you're just saying the same thing in a different way. It's clear she's talking out two sides of her mouth on this issue, because she wants to both acknowledge the pain point and provide an answer that doesn't go against the doctrine. In doing that you get an answer, just a very disingenuous one that doesn't address the problem well.
You gotta remember thought that Jasmine is paid by the Church to pump out this content into the ether. So what you're hearing is really just an innoculation no different than how Scientology may create videos to innoculate their members.
People like you come here to tear down LDS doctrine, but you never own up to your own beliefs. What church do you attend, what doctrine do you believe in? Or are you afraid to reveal it?
@@istj509 i was raised lds but i’m an agnostic atheist now. a lot of these big questions like “where do we go when we die?” or “how did we all get here?” don’t really matter as much to me now because i’m more focused on helping people currently and i’m less focused on judging people according to a set of rules someone else came up with.
but no i’m not afraid to talk about what i believe unlike LDS people, they’ll be afraid to talk about the handshakes, tokens, second anointing, black skin curse, and so much more lol, i don’t have anything like that to hide as an agnostic.
You said you would point out the clearest examples but only gave one. What are the others?
@@beefmaster4 i meant to say example. idk the comment was 8 months ago and i’ve moved on from the church since then so i don’t really wanna debate about it 😭
The greatest attack of the CES letter is made upon the book of f Abraham. See how they gas light you to make it falsely appear that Joseph Smith failed to translate the book of Abraham. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link Paul Gregersen to get there now!
7:15
Here's a couple of questions that the Mormon church has refuse/avoided answering:
1. The Book of Mormon is written in so called "reformed Egyptian" language.
Where is the linguistic evidence for this language?
To this day, there isn't any shred of linguistic evidence for "reformed Egyptian" if not evidence, then the Book of Mormon is considered false doctrine.
2. Why isn't there any archeological evidence to support any stories that is in the Book of Mormon?
Again, to this day there isn't anykind of archeological evidence to support anything in the Book of Mormon?
1) Non-LDS archeologists have found evidence of ancients Jews using a form of simplified Egyptian known as Hieratic as type of shorthand in their record keeping.
2) There is archeological evidence of Nahom, including the NHM alter (Hebrew doesn't use vowels) existing exactly where the Book of Mormon predicts it to be found, a valley matching the descriptions of Bountiful has also been found.
You should be careful when claiming no evidence. Non-LDS professionals make the claim that there insufficient evidence, not that there is none.
@Brett Majeske
O.k. you say non-LDS ....who is it then?
When?
Where?
Photos?
Information on the archeology lack all kinds of information.
@@AlbertJLouie Here are three non-LDS sources:
“Writing in 7th Century BC Levant,” by Stefan Wimmer of the University of Munich
Philip J. King and Lawrence E. Stager, Life in Biblical Israel (Louisville, Kentucky: Westminster John Knox Press, 2001)
Stefan Wimmer, Palästinisches Hieratisch: Die Zahl- und Sonderzeichen in der althebräischen Schrift, Ägypten und Altes Testament 75 (Germany: Harrassowitz Wiesbaden, 2008).
They are not hard to find, it does not seem to me like you actually did any research and just made assumptions without checking them out.
@Brett Majeske
I just finished looking at 2 of 3 of your so-called references.
And they don't pan-out. They show their research into ancient writing, But none says any about "reformed Egyptian" language.
You are beginning to lose credibility here if you keep presenting me with false and misleading information.
@@AlbertJLouie I said that "... simplified Egyptian known as Hieratic..." All three do discuss the usage of Hieratic among relevant time periods and peoples. Hieratic is one of the many versions of Egyptian writing. It is the modern name for this system of writing, not the one used 600 years ago.
My information was neither false nor misleading. I pointed out examples of scholars who were aware of Hebrew people who used Egyptian writing. I did not claim it to be indisputable proof, merely evidence. A distinction I am not sure you understand.
I was answering your question, "Where is the linguistic evidence for this language?"
I maintain that all three sources provide support forms of Egyptian were used by Hebrews in their record keeping, which is obvious support for the Book of Mormon claims.
Since the term "reformed Egyptian" is only used by Moroni, in the context of explaining how the original language of Nephi's time had evolved, your reductive insistence on that phrase ignores the majority of the Book of Mormon text.
Nephi, the first author, uses the phrase "learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians" which describes the process of using Hieratic symbols to record Hebrew words.
Are you implying that archeologists do not believe that languages change and evolve over time?
The first book of the BoM takes place in the old world, and modern archelogy supports many of the descriptions of places mentioned as well as the process described by Nephi.
Your accusation was that no evidence existed. Scholars understand that two different people can describe things differently, it is the actual meaning not the specific words used in the description that matter.
Do you object to calling Hieratic a form of Egyptian writing?
Do you object to Hieratic being derived from older forms of Egyptian writing?
Or in other words, that it has been altered, or "reformed" to be easier to scribe?
Your original statement lacked clarity if your intention is to insist the Hieratic would not count as a possible variant of Egyptian that had been reformed is some manner.
The Book of Mormon does not capitalize the usage of "reformed" so it is an adjective, not a proper noun. Insisting that "Reformed Egyptian" is the name of a specific language is either a Straw Man attempt, or a case of lazy and inexact analysis of the text. "Reform" means to makes changes to something in order to improve it. So the most one can conclude is that Moroni was using a changed or altered version of Egyptian, not some completely new script.
Or is your thesis that there is no such thing as Egyptian?
This is ironic. Book of Mormon Central’s upholding the theory that the Book of Mormon happened in Central America is one of many reasons some have had a faith crisis and left the church. There’s no evidence in Mesoamerica. Swords, metallic armor, earthworks, etc have all been found in North America. One scholar left the church after digging for evidence in Mesoamerica and found nothing. He dug in the wrong place. His son said had his dad dug in North America, he would’ve found evidence and would still be in the church.
Saturday aft - February 4, 2023.
I hope this podcaster gets more experience. It looks like they can, they are working really hard. Until then this podcast will only be surface deep and not as powerful as it can be. Example, host said I don’t really understand this question but you will. Good luck.
The book of Mormon condemned marrying more than one women the book of jacob says it's wickedness.
my favorite explaination for the egyptian manuscript... th-cam.com/video/Aa8_Aya_loU/w-d-xo.html
Polygamy=the happiness letter.
There was no global flood, no Gold Plates. It became clear to me on my mission that the church isn't true and Christianity itself is incoherent. I wasted a lot of time and energy as a Mormon. But my kids won't.
I am sorry that you feel that way.
@@Come.Back.Podcast you're sorry I don't believe in a global flood? Christianity is incoherent? I have moved on, but continue to follow LDS issues because I need to protect my children from Mormons in Utah where I live. I learned to distrust LDS leaders on my mission. It's important to warn children about the abuse and bigotry dealt by Mormons.
I understand why you’re saying that but I no longer believe that we, assuming you’re young enough to have kids at home, can possibly know everything regarding God’s workings. I think your comment struck a cord because I once lost faith but kept seeking knowledge. Eventually, like others have shared, knowledge went beyond intellectual to the point where I could also not deny the experiences (beyond warm feelings) that told me, despite the mess, God is involved in the work of the church. So I guess my plea is to be open minded and continue to seek learning (for the record, I also do not believe in a world flood).
@@jared2734 as if 200 years of persistent LDS racism wasn't enough, now LDS leaders are stupid, cruel homophobes. There's nothing redeemable about LDS theology. I do have kids at home. That's the principal reason I left the church. I decided to protect them from the church in 2015 when I learned about the Exclusion Policy.
@@jared2734 So how do you reconcile this: Jesus before he dies on the cross he forgives his murderers with the words Father forgive them for they know not what they do”. Moments later destroys a civilization halfway around the world in the Americas with all manner of destruction according to the BofM. Isn’t that out of character for someone who just forgiven the people who shed his blood? The BofM makes Jesus look like a bipolar psychopath.
All the questions and all the answers are intellectualizing and have nothing to do with one's Salvation!! When the time comes to know you will learn perfectly by those who know perfectly what happened and knows perfectly all the truth! You are not helping anyone! Sorry!
Is the iron rod the word of God? Is the fruit of the tree of life the love of God? The scoffers in the Great and spacious building have power! Only those who heed them not are not deceived.
Please answer the questions I asked above, because if they are true, the people on the covenant path can be deceived and lost if they heed the scoffers from the great and spacious building.
If you have tasted of the fruit of the Tree of Life, and know of it's goodness, and have felt the unspeakable joy it gives them what more do you need? Do you need someone to tell you it's not true? Is there something more you need to find that you are curious will be better than the joy from the fruit?
As far as Galatians 1: 6-9 . The other gospel Paul is speaking about is that circumcision is necessary for salvation. People who consider themselves Christians do not understand Paul. If every time Paul says works ,even when he says righteous works as in Titus, if you add, OF THE LAW OF Moses, you will begin to understand Paul. Paul was teaching the Christians in the New Testament that none of the works of the law of Moses can save, which means deliver, anyone from sin, because none of the works of the Law of Moses require a person to change from their spirit to keep them. For example, does being circumcized save you from sin? No! Nothing about circumcision causes you to act differently. Does eating a kosher diet cause you to be delivered from sin? No! However, if you never hate anyone are you saved from those related sins? Yes. If you love all people you will never murder anyone. Will never committing adultery deliver you from sin? No! However, if you do not even lust after a person who is not your spouse you will never commit adultery, you are delivered, saved from those related sins. And the thing is with lust is lust can be applied to anything that takes us from the worship of God. All of the Law and the prophets are fulfilled in Christ's teachings and His atonement. Now read Christ's sermon on the mount in 3 Nephi. How is every jot and tittle of the Law of Moses fulfilled in Him?
If you understand Paul and the thinking of the Jews during the New Testament days like I do, you will know that the words in the sermon on the mount by Christ in 3 Nephi are only Christ's words. President Kimball said to not try and prove the Book of Mormon. I can prove, however, that the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints are the teachings in the Bible. I can prove using only the Bible that only the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints teaches correctly the word for f God.
Jasmine started out a little soft touch on her rebuttals, and then brought her strength in her ability to articulate the English language, and apply that ability to defence of the faith in a very valiant way. Hannah Stoddard is the only defender of the faith I have seen who is better at it than her.
Jasmine please try to get the song Every Grain of Sand into hymnal
Come on. It's not real.
In regards to the Book of Abraham at best she's being economical with the truth. 25:22 onwards, no that's simply not true, she knows it & the Church knows it. And anyone who repeats that false narrative isn't telling the truth. The facts are cut & dried Smith's supposed translation is wrong, the facsimiles of the image as printed under Joseph Smith's direction is wrong. Smith had absolutely no idea what the Papyrus says or it's meaning. I'm so glad I won't be the one facing God with all those lies on my conscience.