Despite the second game's polish and grander scale, I've always preferred Gothic 1, but could never really explain why, besides vague statements like "the atmosphere is better". I finally get it now, and I also realised how crucial playing Gothic as a child was to the development of my taste in fiction and aesthetics. Fantastic video.
Wonderful video. I've been thinking about this a lot. Gothic 1 really had that sense of danger and weirdness. Everything feels sort of dead and desolate but it's not stylized like in Dark Souls for example. It feels like real and raw dark fantasy. G2 took the series in a more generic direction but that's not necessarily bad. Even Chronicles of Myrtana continued and refined the atmosphere of Gothic 2 and was missing some of that weirdness. I'd add that a lot of franchises from early 2000 went in a similar direction. Many parts of vanilla wow remind me of Gothic for instance.
Man, I'm a big fan of your videos. You explained really well the difference between Gothic 1 and the subsequent games, and even though I also like both Gothic 2 and 3, they did unfortunately lose the more mystical and occult feeling that the first game had. Looking forward to your next videos!
The developers were very unlucky with the publishers :( As far as I know, according to the early idea of the authors, the first Gothic was not supposed to be so sinister and gloomy. It was supposed to have a main focus on the eastern theme. At the very end of Gothic 1, when the player gets into the tomb of the sleeper he can pay attention to the entourage of this place, which is very much like any Egyptian labyrinths, traps, riddles, tombs, which you could see in the movie The Mummy, for example. To some extent, the developers began to realize it in Gothic 2, especially in its supplement Night of the Raven, and closer to Gothic 3 it and in all turned into a game of oriental orientation, which was already very little sinister and gloomy flair that possessed the previous parts.
Thanks for your unique take on the matter. Really looking forward to Gothic 2 Remake, since remake of Gothic 1 is pretty much settled in my head already.
Great video, I also prefer the first game :) The seekers in G2 were former members of the Swamp Camp who were possessed by Beliar (I guess) after the Barrier fell, I don’t remember how you find that out, but it definitely comes up in a side quest or two. You might need to be a specific faction to get that information as well
That is completely true but they should have expanded this subject imo. Great potential but only tiny pieces of lore are available if you play as a magician!
I am very happy to have found another piece of gothic content on TH-cam. I would like to mention that whole thing about Sleeper ( or Krushak) is missed potential. Sleeper is practically not dead and we never fought him. There was ( i dont remember where )information that Sleeper is immortal and even more powerful than gods. Weird thing is that Beliar's statues are wearing a sleepers mask. Beliar is not sleeper and never was. Not even Undead Dragon is Sleeper. Im big fan of Sleeper as boss so i feel he should somehow come back. Maybe in some mod or new game as new big evil. Maybe first under different identity and then in some new form or even old but better. He was puppet master and his true power was never properly shown. What was his plan and where exactly he is now? So many mysteries 🕳️
gothic 1 kicked the fan out of me and started my obsession with the series, I think gothic 2 is a great sequel, altough this video explains why gothic 1 was more unique and some of its themes got lost in the sequel for some reason (probably time constraints).
I guess you are german, try out the mod "Welt der Verurteilten". Here is how you do it: Voraussetzungen: Gilde: Gardist Level: min. 20 Kapitel: 3 Benötigte abgeschlossene Quests (nicht die original Questnamen): Fletchers Schulden, Neuer Hehler für Fisk, Botschaft für die Feuermagier, Abtrünnige Buddler (Scar's Quest), Paul im alten Lager, Konvoi zur alten Mine, Mordrag weg (Thorus' Quest, Man darf nicht mit Mordrag ins neue Lager gehn und ihn dann umhauen, sonst gehts nicht mehr, und ihn nicht töten), Carlos' Sachen, Huno's Schwert, Orry's Nachricht, Omid's Rezept, Verschwundener Buddler (aus der alten Mine), Magische Artefakte, Brandicks Bier Wenn ihr das alles geschafft habt geht zu Raven, er wird euch zum Erzbaron machen.
I didn*t know your chanel before, Your storytelling is great and the scenes you used are done so well in showing the unique atmosphere! Really enjoyable! I love Gothic ever since I first played it as a kid, mainly the first one, even if G2 plus night of the raven is lovely too. But all in all Gothic I really is the superior game, if not the best game ever made, for the reasons, that you mentioned here. I'm not even a big fan of fantasy, more a sci-fi type of guy, but the valley of the mines with it's unique style is such a thought through place, so special and unique and deep. The monsters, the magic and it's practicing fire and water magicians, the places you visit, the guilds and their different approach to build a society... Really something so unique and unforgettable . I'd love to have more to this world. Like more games, more comics, more stories, taking place in the barrier, there is so much going on, so many stories to be told... It really is a remarkable world of it's own.
11:12 The Seekers from Gothic 2 are more of a cosplay on the nazguls from Lord of the Rings. Only instead of the ring they were looking for the Eye of Innos :)
11:10 not that it makes the story better but there is some background info for the Seekers. In a mage only quest you can learn that they are the gurus of the brotherhood turned mad after tge defeat of the sleeper. I think its the quest where you have to help citicens who are turning insane from the seekers
you're getting better at this! I dig how you're informative and also help paint a picture beyond what you show on video. I'm a big fan of Gothic and RPGs alike, if you have any ideas for other games let them shine!
if you want to experience gothic 1 style dungeons in gothic 2, play Odyssei. i have never seen a game with such huge, enormous dark dungeons. there are at least 20 of them, and many of them are bigger than entire valley of mines. irdorath itself is the size of Khorinis and Valley of Mines together and takes 15 hours to complete. Some dungeons there are just so insanely dark and big, like all 4 Beliar Temples, Irdorath and Isengard in particular
I tried Odysee back in the day and I couldn't get into it. Maybe I give it another try but my first impression was that it tried too much to be Gothic 3 with a Gothic 2 veneer.
@@vertigo7082 pretty much its true, it's what i always wanted gothic 3 to be, but instead of getting just the continent, you get all worlds from all gothics + new worlds and terrain bigger than all of it from previous games, just on top of that. it's very mmo style, grindy experience. something for people who played gothic 3 by clearing entire myrtana from all mobs before even going to quest in Cape Dun. just check out Irdorath world presentation for Odyssei 2.0 and you will instantly fall in love with the mod. They made Irdorath into a legitimate island the size of the entire base game, with beaches all around, temples, bastions, towers, fortresses, dungeons, mountains, forests, magma chambers, rivers, caves, orc cities and camps and lairs full of lovercraftian terrors with 5000-10000HP hitting you for 1500 damage. the final boss lives at the top of a tower which has like 25 floors and is a vertical labirynth, each floor has harder enemies, getting to the top takes hours and the views from the top are incredible, you can see entire island of Irdorath. It's visually the most beautiful extension of base gothic world you can imagine but if you want to play Odyssei, make sure you do it with detailed guide for everything, play it in english translation, make sure you have the sub-mod that enables x4 speed for traversing the huge distances and make sure you like clearing vast areas full of mobs, loot, experience, plants and nothing else. it is not a very story-based mod, like Chronicles of Myrtana, it's actually quite the opposite, the story has no meaning to the experience, you are a random guy who wants to become a great paladin and a hero, and that's about it, all you do it trying to get away from your shitty island and join the king's elite paladins, and when you do that, it just so happens you are on your way to save the world from the reincarnated sleeper again
What do you think of the game Phoenix, being developed by Phoenix Tales? In their project, they are trying to recreate the original ideas of what Gothic was supposed to be. There is also the Nemesis project, the team behind it, as far as I understand, has a slightly different vision than Phoenix Tales team, but they also trying to recreate the original ideas. I don't know much about the latter, but both projects are very ambitious.
Just like the sequel mod that is being worked on, it's a take on a "what if" scenario. I like that they are doing this and I look forward to see how that recycled material plays out it a finished version. I will definitely give it a try. The Phoenix Tales are a goldmine for every Gothic enthusiast and to see that stuff in action is pretty interesting.
I always imagined the Old lighthouse to be some sort of smuggler hideout. With all the barrels inside, telling the story of what could've been there and how important it was once, for the colony. It kinda reminds me of the pirate hideout in Gothic 2 notr, with the undead cave besides. It hase some similar vibe to it. Possibly the reason for the "curse" that lays upon the old lighthouse with all the undeads running around there could simply be: The Smuggler got to greedy for the sake of craving more gold and killed ruthlessly innocent people or disturbed some old graves like stonehenge (where you go with milten) and so they got wiped out and damned for eternity. in the book there is a slight hint towards this theory: the deeds of the crew are long forgotten (Vergessen sind die Taten jener, die sich einst an Bord befanden) So maybe Chromanin was the Captain who forced his crew to go this cruel path with him or he was the guy cursing the crew. however this was always one of my favourite places in the whole colony. great vid, sexy voice. As Always
Thanks friend! In the "Gothic Sequel" the tower would have gained more significance: diggers would go there to mine the infamous "blood ore", that is the mineral we see in the Sleeper Temple. I don't know what that ore was good for, but apparently it had something to do with the "demon invasion" of the colony.
@@vertigo7082 Well that‘s neat. Supporting even more theories of greed and punishment. Just like tolkien described with the mines of moria. Dig around and find out. You shall not use the mine colony pass!
Great Video! I like the way u emotionally tell ur narrative combined with good visuals. In my books, it wouldn't have been a problem if the final chapter / dungeon would've been in the Valley of Mines again, because this brings with it, the opportunity to flesh out all of that which was cut in locations from the original Gothic 2 game. Imagine instead of that whole big orc palisade thing there would've been some kind of orc settlement combined with potential seeker/enslaved brotherhood lore 🤔. Thats just a very top-down thought though, not considering developments on the main land and stuff.
It makes sense to not have any mines in G2, it's called the MINE colony for a reason (where you spend your time in the first game) and if there were mines outside the mine colony, the whole story wouldn't make sense, the outside world wouldn't had to trade with the people in the bareer in exchange for the ore.
In the world of Gothic minerals exist that differ from "magical ore". There is iron and hell, even sulfur, which is won on the mainland. Saying that mines should only exist on Khorinis is a bold statement.
alot of things in this game are quite nebulous , like for example when ratford says that some of the ruins date to the first orc war , okay thats nice but how long ago was that war because the citadel looks like it was abandoned for a century or more , overall alot of the places in the colony feel very very old
Oh yeah that quote is pretty interesting. I always thought that the first orc war was fought by Rhobar I. but I guess I was wrong. It would be nice if the remake touches on these things like I mentioned in one of my last videos. You have to keep in mind that when they developed the game the Valley of Mines was still part of the mainland. There are so many retcons, I wish they clear things up a bit in the future.
Years ago, my favorite game to play was Gothic 2. I liked this game for the amazing developed world, which gave amazing opportunities. But over the years I started to favor Gothic 1 more. Always liked its dark oppressive tone and dead nature entourage. All these things in general conveyed an excellent atmosphere, which the developers managed to recreate by means of a closed chamber world. By the way, when the player descends to the lowest level of the Old Mine, he can pay attention to how the passage to the crawler queen's masonry is arranged from the inside. You can see that the developers were inspired by the works of Hans Rudi Giger, it's his style for sure. In my opinion the crawler/war-crawler from Gothic is more reminiscent not of "Aliens", but of the huge bugs from the movie "Star Troopers".
I always wondered if maybe Chromanin was not a nod to Lovecraft and his Necronomicon. Both are mysterious books with unknown, probably dark knowledge. Both seem to uncover some banned truth and both seem to deal with necromancy and black magic.
Gothic seems to me to lean more into Lovecraftian themes than Gothic II. You have a mysterious brotherhood, worshipping a being with unknown motives. You have ancient temples where cultists communed with things out of this world. The main antagonist remains a mystery for a long time. Gothic II is more straight fantasy, where you are immediately told that the big enemies are dragons. Though Night of the Raven remedies that somewhat.
Well made video and couldn't agree more. For all its merits, G2 lost a large portion of the spirit that animated the first game, and the addon, while adding more unique themes and a new atmosphere, felt really artificially included and broke the immersion (not to mention the pacing) rather badly. If they ever make a remake of G2, I truly wish they'll address these things in some way, maybe even exclude the addon completely and focus instead on adding a little mystery and menace to the main body of Khorinis.
I always found it weird that gods in gothic 1 are these mythical gods who have little to no influence on the world, apart from giving magic to the people, but they are turned into this childish interpretation of pure good and pure evil in gothic 2, that they are always behind every evil/good scheme, and everyone mentions them like once every 10 minutes. I am pretty sure that name of Innos is said only once in gothic 1, and only if you play as a mage, while I wouldn't be surprised if it was said more than 100 times in g2
I think it suited the overall feeling of the world very well that the gods were these mythical beings, looming in some cosmic background. They are too much in your face in G2.
Although I found G2 to be superior than the first game, the atmosphere and locations of G1 were indeed more inspiring, original and otherworldly. Had G1 been given the same mechanical depth of G2, I would have been the better game hands down. However I would state that things were ultimately going to end up feeling more generic and mainstream after the first game simply because of the fact that we broke out of the barrier and entered the human kingdom as we know it. Seeing everyday medieval human activities was inevitable given that we were finally in the heart of the kingdom's affairs and politics again. Notwithstanding the interesting nature of Jharkendar from the addon, which felt very close to some of that otherworldliness from the original
That is a good point, but I left it out intentionally. Jharkendar is a lot of fun but its lore always felt very disconnected from everything else. It felt like a d-plot haphazardly slapped onto Gothic 2. You are right, there is the wrath of the god Adanos, a great flood, necromancy (in a way) and the artifact of Beliar but I never felt that a real dread is upon us, the player character. In other terms, to me, it's not the same "weight-class". The temple of Adanos, in which we fight Raven, is too small and its atmosphere is nothing compared to the dungeons of G1. To me it felt kind of "grounded" and "realistic", speaking in Gothic terms.
Just one small thing: at 1:32 you mention 'on the island of Khorinis', but it's worth remembering that in Gothic 1, Khorinis, according to its original concept, was actually a part of the continent, not an island. I thought that it may be worth mentioning especially when you're talking about Gothic 1 unique themes. Nonetheless, fun video.
G1 is still very realistic. just other games are too similar to each other i suppose... but other than than "non european" architecture its still very much this worldly. maybe some caves are a bit fantastic but not that much
True but that mystical ambience was limited to a small part of the general experience. That made it feel like it was slapped on haphazardly. The otherworldly feel in G1 on the other hand was part of its very DNA.
very nice video, one thing though - seekers DO have proper background - they are changed novices and templars from swamp camp - you can learn that playing a fire mage
Unfortunately that is just a small piece of dialogue, still important though. I wished for something more in depth like the things I mentioned in the video.
@@Mejker sure but I wanted to explore this whole situation in a little more detail like going into the sect camp in G2. Sadly that was a missed opportunity.
Im replaying it now and it's great and looks good, you are missing out one of the best rpg's ever. My top 5 are Planescape Torment, Gothic 1, dark souls , fallout 2, witcher 3.
17:05 But your entire video is about the difference between Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 and what you say here is quite contradicting unless it's a comment completely unrelated to the rest of the video. Chronicles of Myrthana is literally Gothic 2 but extended to 100 hours with a story that keeps confusing itself and non-memorable characters and themes. Chronicles of Myrthana is even more medievalized Gothic 2 and it strays even further from the original themes. Take an example from the armors, they are so medieval and realistic it's just annoying.
Obviously CoM is missing out on some themes I'm talking about, I was referring to a somewhat new approach to the story and the hero. It is realistically medieval sure, but Vardhal, the beast and the whole conspiracy in the background is interesting and also kind of mysterious. I only wanted to give an example of a mod that expands in themes and it does really well in that regard, but again at the cost of the more dubious and obscure themes.
@@vertigo7082 But it's not a new approach, and the story itself is contradicting itself at many points. We spend majority of our time searching for our brother by doing literally anything but searching. They re-written Witcher 3 storyline and it just feels they ran out of ideas how to do the story itself. More doesn't indicate better. In comparison to Gothic 1 which Chronicles of Myrthana psychofans berate in the light of their beloved mod, Gothic 1 is way more complex in it's storyline and lore while not telling the player anything and keeping it really simple at the premise. There's a terrifyingly huge gap between Gothic 1 and CoM and a huge gap between Gothic 2 and CoM as well. You speak of fresh approach but as I say it's not fresh, Marvin is a Mara Sue type character with lukewarm personality, it's hilarious because his story is far more established when you compare him to the Nameless hero from Gothic. Yet Marvin is bland and doesn't invoke any interest, he is a pushover zero that is achieving peaks of anything he possibly could but still tries to act like he is a zero and the game keeps trying to remind you "oh it's just a regular guy". No friend, he learned magic from fucking books because according to the creators you have to spend a lot of time learning magic so Marvin would never become a mage! But he is such a prodigy that he masters the spells on his own. If you really want to cite a mod that shines through here with expanding the universe then check the "Vergessen ist nicht vergangen" for Gothic 2. It's based on the canon comic book for Gothic but tells a different story while taking what's best from the universe and from Gothic 1 themes. It tells the origin of many things, what happened before nameless hero appeared under the barrier.
True, Gothic 2 had already lost some of its atmosphere compared to Gothic 1. Have you ever heard of the Gothic Sequel? They cancelled the development and developed Gothic 2 instead. In my opinion, this was the wrong decision. Maybe you'll take a look at it and make a video about it?
Sure I know about the sequel. The thing is that very little was developed, so a video about that might be very short. However, I watched some LPs about the sequel and I like what I am seeing. There is a polish mod team that is developing a full sequel experience. There must be a demo out there which they released recently.
I don't know about this. They themselves prefer "brotherhood", that is even said in the game afaik. On top "being in a sect" has negative connotations where I come from.
@@vertigo7082 "Religious", "Zealous" and "Pious" are also seen as a negative depending on who you ask, yet none of those terms are derogatory, and are viewed as positive traits by some. Sect is usually only a negative term in highly religious followings of mainstream faiths that don't like splinter groups, or highly anti-religious hyper-secularist circles. Even "Cult" isn't a strictly negative term, although it has much stronger connotations than "Sect". For every evil kool-aid drinking cult you have a work of fiction that has a "cult following" which is considered a positive trait. In historical context, cult is not a negative or derogatory term, the religious followings of different gods in pagan cultures were called 'cults'. The word gets outright negative connotations only in strictly secular circles, while 'sects' get them in mainstream religions that don't like splinter groups. In the context of Gothic, there's nothing that leads me to believe that the term sect is used as a derogative. It is a completely neutral term. The ones who don't like them call them 'loonies', but "sect loonie" doesn't make the word "sect" any more derogative than "new camp thug" makes "new camp" derogative. Unless you're in the Old Camp, obviously.
14:00 Gothic1,2 is a Aztec Game. If you study the Aztecs, you will be completely overwhelmed and understand nothing. Similarly, if you deal with the Hallstatt culture, it's completely foreign. Then you realize: This is the Gotik, that is, Deutsche culture, and my grandma and my porn consumption.
Gothic being an aztec game is surely a statement. I can see some influences like in Jharkendar and maybe even the houses of the NC but above and beyond that I fail to see the connection. Maybe you should explain this point a little better? The last sentence I don't really understand either.
@@vertigo7082 So the story genre is: Aztec game, so the protagonist is just a “just waiting” for the feast day, when he will be harvested as a human sacrifice. That means: - a specific race exploit pornography reaped. - rabbit cry. - Psychological Operation, learn from each other. - Psychological Operation, maneuver into the respect dead end, “Should, Shouldn't”. - low fantasy metaphorical narrative of today's life experience. - Suicide jumping. These games also have this genre: - Days Gone 2019. - Legacy of Kain Series 1997 to 2004. - Shadow Man 1999. - GTA San Andreas 2004. - GTA 4 2009. - Red Dead Redemption 2 2018. - The Last of Us 2013.
@@Tottokamm All nice and well that you are listing all these pieces but what about giving me specifics? Where in Gothic is "a specific race exploit pornography reaped"? What does that even mean? "Rabbit cry" ??? What PsyOps? It is kinda obvious that when making any game that our lives and experiences influence the game. What does that have to do with aztec culture? Suicide jumping...Is that a metaphor for the nameless hero being thrown into the colony? That was hardly suicide when he got pushed. What even is a "story genre: aztec"? Please give concrete details, else these things sound too far-fetched.
@@vertigo7082 G1 2001 and G2 2002 is an illegal pirate copy and illegal modding of "Shadow Man 1999" G1 is 50% Eurojank, i.e. random Mannerisms, 20% unfinished, and 30% Cookie Cutter Gothic Fiction genre G2 is 10% Eurojank, 10% unfinished, and 80% cookie cutter gothic fiction genre Unlike Risen3 or Elex2, G1 and G2 were created in a kind of trance, sleepwalking, crunch work process. For example, "Olan's Tavern" is a Mannerism in G2. See the video: WIR SPRECHEN UNS NOCH! - Der Gothic-Podcast mit Jorgenson & Kurga #68 Gast: Mario Röske 08.03.2024 The video also explains that "Mike Hoge" almost committed suicide in front of the other developers, almost lying as a corpse in the Piranha Bytes studio. In trying to explain when Why a game is a Cookie Cutter Gothic Fiction genre.
@@vertigo7082 I'm still making explanatory videos for G1 and G2. However, only after the release of the remake. The developers at THQ Nordic Embracer Group are "Just Waiting" human sacrifices. and I want to ogle this. For myself, I'm still waiting for tech demos with Unreal Engine 5 etc. Because: Gothic is always a cookie cutter, and not a ridiculous tech demo. I have already finished commenting on the RETRO Remastered and PREQUEL. And why this can be implemented with retro gameplay and not with modern Days Gone Unreal Engine 5 gameplay and narrative design. see my video: [TTS] Legend of the Romagna The Gothic Pequel outlined with Gothic2 gameplay
5:23 Are you playing The Lord of the Rings Return to Moria? no, because mines are always a flop as a setting. annoying walking paths and no experience. The mines in Legend of Ahssun and Archolos have already told mine to the end for me. When it comes to mines, you can only do everything wrong: either it is implemented far too romantically or far too strictly.
...and the LoA and CoM are based on which game? Sure we can talk about modifications, but this video is about the original. Mines can be great for worldbuilding but it is surely very subjective if someone likes to play "underground" or not. There are a lot of early games using "dungeons" as their setting, Arx Fatalis or Ultima Underworld for example are taking place completely underground. What do you even mean with romantically and too strictly? Do you want an accurate depiction of mining in video games? That would be very boring, I can tell you that.
@@vertigo7082 "Gothic" is always a cookie cutter. So to understand "Gothic genre" you need minimal life experience. If you have no life experience at all and are not a consumer on TH-cam, Twitter, etc. then it is impossible to talk to you about Gothic genre. You're just a troll who thinks Gothic is forever overrated,as forever thinks: Embracer Group, THQ Nordic Here: Just Google mines, for example mines in Belgium in the 19th century. or Tagebau Garzweiler ect. And compare this with Gothic1 2001 from Eurojank developer Piranha Bytes
Love the atmosphere, but the sleeper story was a bit too wack imo. I would have preferred the story would stay a little more grounded. Like just making the orcs the big bad instead of an incient god worshipped by stoners. At the least i think myrtana had a better story execution. The politics, the pettiness. If feels more gothic than being a chosen one.
Despite the second game's polish and grander scale, I've always preferred Gothic 1, but could never really explain why, besides vague statements like "the atmosphere is better". I finally get it now, and I also realised how crucial playing Gothic as a child was to the development of my taste in fiction and aesthetics.
Fantastic video.
Well, to be fair, the atmosphere *IS* better. ^^
Gothic 1 is still my favourite in the franchise. Couldn't agree more - UNIQUE is the name of the game 🙂 Thanks for the great video!
I appreciate it brother! I hope they bring back some of these unique themes in the remakes to come!
Wonderful video. I've been thinking about this a lot. Gothic 1 really had that sense of danger and weirdness. Everything feels sort of dead and desolate but it's not stylized like in Dark Souls for example. It feels like real and raw dark fantasy. G2 took the series in a more generic direction but that's not necessarily bad. Even Chronicles of Myrtana continued and refined the atmosphere of Gothic 2 and was missing some of that weirdness.
I'd add that a lot of franchises from early 2000 went in a similar direction. Many parts of vanilla wow remind me of Gothic for instance.
Man, I'm a big fan of your videos. You explained really well the difference between Gothic 1 and the subsequent games, and even though I also like both Gothic 2 and 3, they did unfortunately lose the more mystical and occult feeling that the first game had.
Looking forward to your next videos!
Glad that you like it! I definitely have some more ideas and half baked scripts for new content but as always it will take some time...
The developers were very unlucky with the publishers :(
As far as I know, according to the early idea of the authors, the first Gothic was not supposed to be so sinister and gloomy. It was supposed to have a main focus on the eastern theme.
At the very end of Gothic 1, when the player gets into the tomb of the sleeper he can pay attention to the entourage of this place, which is very much like any Egyptian labyrinths, traps, riddles, tombs, which you could see in the movie The Mummy, for example.
To some extent, the developers began to realize it in Gothic 2, especially in its supplement Night of the Raven, and closer to Gothic 3 it and in all turned into a game of oriental orientation, which was already very little sinister and gloomy flair that possessed the previous parts.
Can you elaborate on the main focus on the eastern theme? Got an interview or something? That sounds interesting.
came for the lost themes, stayed fpr the massive shafts and hunt for secretion
Thanks for your unique take on the matter. Really looking forward to Gothic 2 Remake, since remake of Gothic 1 is pretty much settled in my head already.
Same here. If they do a good enough job with the Remake I think it might be clear what's up next for them!
Great video, I also prefer the first game :) The seekers in G2 were former members of the Swamp Camp who were possessed by Beliar (I guess) after the Barrier fell, I don’t remember how you find that out, but it definitely comes up in a side quest or two. You might need to be a specific faction to get that information as well
That is completely true but they should have expanded this subject imo. Great potential but only tiny pieces of lore are available if you play as a magician!
I am very happy to have found another piece of gothic content on TH-cam. I would like to mention that whole thing about Sleeper ( or Krushak) is missed potential. Sleeper is practically not dead and we never fought him. There was ( i dont remember where )information that Sleeper is immortal and even more powerful than gods. Weird thing is that Beliar's statues are wearing a sleepers mask. Beliar is not sleeper and never was. Not even Undead Dragon is Sleeper. Im big fan of Sleeper as boss so i feel he should somehow come back. Maybe in some mod or new game as new big evil. Maybe first under different identity and then in some new form or even old but better. He was puppet master and his true power was never properly shown. What was his plan and where exactly he is now? So many mysteries 🕳️
gothic 1 kicked the fan out of me and started my obsession with the series, I think gothic 2 is a great sequel, altough this video explains why gothic 1 was more unique and some of its themes got lost in the sequel for some reason (probably time constraints).
Time constraints...the plague of the franchise. I hope that the remake will take its time, we don't need another semi-developed Gothic game.
@@vertigo7082 they are sure taking their time.
Old Camp is still my personal favorite place in all video-game worlds. Always dreamed of becoming ore baron myself
I guess you are german, try out the mod "Welt der Verurteilten". Here is how you do it:
Voraussetzungen:
Gilde: Gardist
Level: min. 20
Kapitel: 3
Benötigte abgeschlossene Quests (nicht die original Questnamen):
Fletchers Schulden, Neuer Hehler für Fisk, Botschaft für die Feuermagier, Abtrünnige Buddler (Scar's Quest), Paul im alten Lager, Konvoi zur alten Mine, Mordrag weg (Thorus' Quest, Man darf nicht mit Mordrag ins neue Lager gehn und ihn dann umhauen, sonst gehts nicht mehr, und ihn nicht töten), Carlos' Sachen, Huno's Schwert, Orry's Nachricht, Omid's Rezept, Verschwundener Buddler (aus der alten Mine), Magische Artefakte, Brandicks Bier
Wenn ihr das alles geschafft habt geht zu Raven, er wird euch zum Erzbaron machen.
@@vertigo7082 cool, but wanted to replace Gomez and get all the chicks too ;)
@@Pokel12356 ah ok I get it :D well I don't know if there is a mod that does that.
@@vertigo7082 maybe in remake. Would be cool enough to get the heavy guard armor👌🏻
I didn*t know your chanel before,
Your storytelling is great and the scenes you used are done so well
in showing the unique atmosphere!
Really enjoyable!
I love Gothic ever since I first played it as a kid,
mainly the first one, even if G2 plus night of the raven is lovely too.
But all in all Gothic I really is the superior game,
if not the best game ever made,
for the reasons, that you mentioned here.
I'm not even a big fan of fantasy,
more a sci-fi type of guy,
but the valley of the mines with it's unique style is such a thought through place,
so special and unique and deep.
The monsters, the magic and it's practicing fire and water magicians,
the places you visit, the guilds and their different approach to build a society...
Really something so unique and unforgettable .
I'd love to have more to this world.
Like more games, more comics, more stories, taking place in the barrier,
there is so much going on, so many stories to be told...
It really is a remarkable world of it's own.
outstanding video like always
Thanks a lot man! Glad you enjoyed it!
11:12 The Seekers from Gothic 2 are more of a cosplay on the nazguls from Lord of the Rings. Only instead of the ring they were looking for the Eye of Innos :)
I never saw it that way, lol.
Very cool Video - exciting voice dubbing
11:10 not that it makes the story better but there is some background info for the Seekers. In a mage only quest you can learn that they are the gurus of the brotherhood turned mad after tge defeat of the sleeper. I think its the quest where you have to help citicens who are turning insane from the seekers
The Seekers from Gothic 2 are the former members of the Swamp camp. You will find out about it if you join the Fire mages.
Yes but it is only 2 throwaway lines, one spoken by Karras or Hyglas and the other by the Blackmage on Irdorath.
An excellent video, it was a pleasure to watch.
you're getting better at this! I dig how you're informative and also help paint a picture beyond what you show on video. I'm a big fan of Gothic and RPGs alike, if you have any ideas for other games let them shine!
Thanks mate! I also play other games and maybe there will come a time when I make content about those, but for now Gothic will be my priority!
I'm in love with this.
if you want to experience gothic 1 style dungeons in gothic 2, play Odyssei. i have never seen a game with such huge, enormous dark dungeons. there are at least 20 of them, and many of them are bigger than entire valley of mines. irdorath itself is the size of Khorinis and Valley of Mines together and takes 15 hours to complete. Some dungeons there are just so insanely dark and big, like all 4 Beliar Temples, Irdorath and Isengard in particular
I tried Odysee back in the day and I couldn't get into it. Maybe I give it another try but my first impression was that it tried too much to be Gothic 3 with a Gothic 2 veneer.
@@vertigo7082 pretty much its true, it's what i always wanted gothic 3 to be, but instead of getting just the continent, you get all worlds from all gothics + new worlds and terrain bigger than all of it from previous games, just on top of that. it's very mmo style, grindy experience. something for people who played gothic 3 by clearing entire myrtana from all mobs before even going to quest in Cape Dun.
just check out Irdorath world presentation for Odyssei 2.0 and you will instantly fall in love with the mod. They made Irdorath into a legitimate island the size of the entire base game, with beaches all around, temples, bastions, towers, fortresses, dungeons, mountains, forests, magma chambers, rivers, caves, orc cities and camps and lairs full of lovercraftian terrors with 5000-10000HP hitting you for 1500 damage. the final boss lives at the top of a tower which has like 25 floors and is a vertical labirynth, each floor has harder enemies, getting to the top takes hours and the views from the top are incredible, you can see entire island of Irdorath. It's visually the most beautiful extension of base gothic world you can imagine
but if you want to play Odyssei, make sure you do it with detailed guide for everything, play it in english translation, make sure you have the sub-mod that enables x4 speed for traversing the huge distances and make sure you like clearing vast areas full of mobs, loot, experience, plants and nothing else. it is not a very story-based mod, like Chronicles of Myrtana, it's actually quite the opposite, the story has no meaning to the experience, you are a random guy who wants to become a great paladin and a hero, and that's about it, all you do it trying to get away from your shitty island and join the king's elite paladins, and when you do that, it just so happens you are on your way to save the world from the reincarnated sleeper again
What do you think of the game Phoenix, being developed by Phoenix Tales? In their project, they are trying to recreate the original ideas of what Gothic was supposed to be. There is also the Nemesis project, the team behind it, as far as I understand, has a slightly different vision than Phoenix Tales team, but they also trying to recreate the original ideas. I don't know much about the latter, but both projects are very ambitious.
Just like the sequel mod that is being worked on, it's a take on a "what if" scenario. I like that they are doing this and I look forward to see how that recycled material plays out it a finished version. I will definitely give it a try. The Phoenix Tales are a goldmine for every Gothic enthusiast and to see that stuff in action is pretty interesting.
I always imagined the Old lighthouse to be some sort of smuggler hideout. With all the barrels inside, telling the story of what could've been there and how important it was once, for the colony. It kinda reminds me of the pirate hideout in Gothic 2 notr, with the undead cave besides. It hase some similar vibe to it. Possibly the reason for the "curse" that lays upon the old lighthouse with all the undeads running around there could simply be: The Smuggler got to greedy for the sake of craving more gold and killed ruthlessly innocent people or disturbed some old graves like stonehenge (where you go with milten) and so they got wiped out and damned for eternity. in the book there is a slight hint towards this theory: the deeds of the crew are long forgotten (Vergessen sind die Taten jener, die sich einst an Bord befanden) So maybe Chromanin was the Captain who forced his crew to go this cruel path with him or he was the guy cursing the crew. however this was always one of my favourite places in the whole colony.
great vid, sexy voice. As Always
Thanks friend! In the "Gothic Sequel" the tower would have gained more significance: diggers would go there to mine the infamous "blood ore", that is the mineral we see in the Sleeper Temple. I don't know what that ore was good for, but apparently it had something to do with the "demon invasion" of the colony.
@@vertigo7082 Well that‘s neat. Supporting even more theories of greed and punishment. Just like tolkien described with the mines of moria.
Dig around and find out.
You shall not use the mine colony pass!
Great Video! I like the way u emotionally tell ur narrative combined with good visuals.
In my books, it wouldn't have been a problem if the final chapter / dungeon would've been in the Valley of Mines again, because this brings with it, the opportunity to flesh out all of that which was cut in locations from the original Gothic 2 game. Imagine instead of that whole big orc palisade thing there would've been some kind of orc settlement combined with potential seeker/enslaved brotherhood lore 🤔.
Thats just a very top-down thought though, not considering developments on the main land and stuff.
It makes sense to not have any mines in G2, it's called the MINE colony for a reason (where you spend your time in the first game) and if there were mines outside the mine colony, the whole story wouldn't make sense, the outside world wouldn't had to trade with the people in the bareer in exchange for the ore.
In the world of Gothic minerals exist that differ from "magical ore". There is iron and hell, even sulfur, which is won on the mainland. Saying that mines should only exist on Khorinis is a bold statement.
alot of things in this game are quite nebulous , like for example when ratford says that some of the ruins date to the first orc war , okay thats nice but how long ago was that war because the citadel looks like it was abandoned for a century or more , overall alot of the places in the colony feel very very old
Oh yeah that quote is pretty interesting. I always thought that the first orc war was fought by Rhobar I. but I guess I was wrong. It would be nice if the remake touches on these things like I mentioned in one of my last videos. You have to keep in mind that when they developed the game the Valley of Mines was still part of the mainland. There are so many retcons, I wish they clear things up a bit in the future.
Years ago, my favorite game to play was Gothic 2. I liked this game for the amazing developed world, which gave amazing opportunities.
But over the years I started to favor Gothic 1 more. Always liked its dark oppressive tone and dead nature entourage. All these things in general conveyed an excellent atmosphere, which the developers managed to recreate by means of a closed chamber world.
By the way, when the player descends to the lowest level of the Old Mine, he can pay attention to how the passage to the crawler queen's masonry is arranged from the inside.
You can see that the developers were inspired by the works of Hans Rudi Giger, it's his style for sure.
In my opinion the crawler/war-crawler from Gothic is more reminiscent not of "Aliens", but of the huge bugs from the movie "Star Troopers".
Excellent
I do like your take on the matter! But what's more important, I like your style.
Agree completely loved Gothic 1 much more than 2
I always wondered if maybe Chromanin was not a nod to Lovecraft and his Necronomicon. Both are mysterious books with unknown, probably dark knowledge. Both seem to uncover some banned truth and both seem to deal with necromancy and black magic.
Gothic seems to me to lean more into Lovecraftian themes than Gothic II. You have a mysterious brotherhood, worshipping a being with unknown motives. You have ancient temples where cultists communed with things out of this world. The main antagonist remains a mystery for a long time. Gothic II is more straight fantasy, where you are immediately told that the big enemies are dragons. Though Night of the Raven remedies that somewhat.
Abo für dich. Du machst das toll.
Well made video and couldn't agree more. For all its merits, G2 lost a large portion of the spirit that animated the first game, and the addon, while adding more unique themes and a new atmosphere, felt really artificially included and broke the immersion (not to mention the pacing) rather badly. If they ever make a remake of G2, I truly wish they'll address these things in some way, maybe even exclude the addon completely and focus instead on adding a little mystery and menace to the main body of Khorinis.
I also prefer Gothic 1 better than the 2nd, partly (but not limited to) for these reasons.
What are the other reasons?
I always found it weird that gods in gothic 1 are these mythical gods who have little to no influence on the world, apart from giving magic to the people, but they are turned into this childish interpretation of pure good and pure evil in gothic 2, that they are always behind every evil/good scheme, and everyone mentions them like once every 10 minutes. I am pretty sure that name of Innos is said only once in gothic 1, and only if you play as a mage, while I wouldn't be surprised if it was said more than 100 times in g2
I just checked. Name of innos is said 9 times in gothic 1, while it is said 447 times in gothic 2
I think it suited the overall feeling of the world very well that the gods were these mythical beings, looming in some cosmic background. They are too much in your face in G2.
Although I found G2 to be superior than the first game, the atmosphere and locations of G1 were indeed more inspiring, original and otherworldly. Had G1 been given the same mechanical depth of G2, I would have been the better game hands down.
However I would state that things were ultimately going to end up feeling more generic and mainstream after the first game simply because of the fact that we broke out of the barrier and entered the human kingdom as we know it. Seeing everyday medieval human activities was inevitable given that we were finally in the heart of the kingdom's affairs and politics again. Notwithstanding the interesting nature of Jharkendar from the addon, which felt very close to some of that otherworldliness from the original
I have to chuckle everytime somebody mentions the Ulumulu. Such a silly name.
You mention Night of the Raven, but you're not going to mention Jharkendar at all?
That is a good point, but I left it out intentionally. Jharkendar is a lot of fun but its lore always felt very disconnected from everything else. It felt like a d-plot haphazardly slapped onto Gothic 2. You are right, there is the wrath of the god Adanos, a great flood, necromancy (in a way) and the artifact of Beliar but I never felt that a real dread is upon us, the player character. In other terms, to me, it's not the same "weight-class".
The temple of Adanos, in which we fight Raven, is too small and its atmosphere is nothing compared to the dungeons of G1. To me it felt kind of "grounded" and "realistic", speaking in Gothic terms.
Just one small thing: at 1:32 you mention 'on the island of Khorinis', but it's worth remembering that in Gothic 1, Khorinis, according to its original concept, was actually a part of the continent, not an island. I thought that it may be worth mentioning especially when you're talking about Gothic 1 unique themes. Nonetheless, fun video.
Yes the original approach was different, I mentioned that in a previous video but that doesn't make my sentence wrong or am I confused right now?
No, of course not. I haven't seen the previous video so I just wanted to mention this, just in case you didn't know.
Gothic 1 is definitely more iconic even tho i first played gothic 2
G1 is still very realistic. just other games are too similar to each other i suppose... but other than than "non european" architecture its still very much this worldly. maybe some caves are a bit fantastic but not that much
can u cover more the coming remake news? thank you
Unfortunately there is a dry spell when it comes to news right now.
ofc I'm gonna cover the news once they are out
notr did add a lot of mysticism and enigma back into g2 i feel, but i agree, it still feels rather tamed compared to g1
True but that mystical ambience was limited to a small part of the general experience. That made it feel like it was slapped on haphazardly. The otherworldly feel in G1 on the other hand was part of its very DNA.
very nice video, one thing though - seekers DO have proper background - they are changed novices and templars from swamp camp - you can learn that playing a fire mage
Unfortunately that is just a small piece of dialogue, still important though. I wished for something more in depth like the things I mentioned in the video.
@@vertigo7082 Lester and Angar dialogues give some hints as well. Since they feel the same horrible headache ever since Sleeper was banished.
@@Mejker sure but I wanted to explore this whole situation in a little more detail like going into the sect camp in G2. Sadly that was a missed opportunity.
to be honest its hard to imagine how G2 would have much more dungeons. addon adds some in logical way but how can it have more?
underrated video, i feel blessed to have found it. never played gothic, but its fun to get a glimpse into fandoms you are not apart of.
Thanks a lot man. The game is a cult classic in Europe, maybe we can get you involved in our business! I highly recommend that piece of media.
You are missing out.
Im replaying it now and it's great and looks good, you are missing out one of the best rpg's ever. My top 5 are Planescape Torment, Gothic 1, dark souls , fallout 2, witcher 3.
Yep, Gothic 1 was dark.
17:05 But your entire video is about the difference between Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 and what you say here is quite contradicting unless it's a comment completely unrelated to the rest of the video. Chronicles of Myrthana is literally Gothic 2 but extended to 100 hours with a story that keeps confusing itself and non-memorable characters and themes. Chronicles of Myrthana is even more medievalized Gothic 2 and it strays even further from the original themes. Take an example from the armors, they are so medieval and realistic it's just annoying.
Obviously CoM is missing out on some themes I'm talking about, I was referring to a somewhat new approach to the story and the hero. It is realistically medieval sure, but Vardhal, the beast and the whole conspiracy in the background is interesting and also kind of mysterious.
I only wanted to give an example of a mod that expands in themes and it does really well in that regard, but again at the cost of the more dubious and obscure themes.
@@vertigo7082 But it's not a new approach, and the story itself is contradicting itself at many points. We spend majority of our time searching for our brother by doing literally anything but searching. They re-written Witcher 3 storyline and it just feels they ran out of ideas how to do the story itself. More doesn't indicate better. In comparison to Gothic 1 which Chronicles of Myrthana psychofans berate in the light of their beloved mod, Gothic 1 is way more complex in it's storyline and lore while not telling the player anything and keeping it really simple at the premise. There's a terrifyingly huge gap between Gothic 1 and CoM and a huge gap between Gothic 2 and CoM as well.
You speak of fresh approach but as I say it's not fresh, Marvin is a Mara Sue type character with lukewarm personality, it's hilarious because his story is far more established when you compare him to the Nameless hero from Gothic. Yet Marvin is bland and doesn't invoke any interest, he is a pushover zero that is achieving peaks of anything he possibly could but still tries to act like he is a zero and the game keeps trying to remind you "oh it's just a regular guy". No friend, he learned magic from fucking books because according to the creators you have to spend a lot of time learning magic so Marvin would never become a mage! But he is such a prodigy that he masters the spells on his own.
If you really want to cite a mod that shines through here with expanding the universe then check the "Vergessen ist nicht vergangen" for Gothic 2. It's based on the canon comic book for Gothic but tells a different story while taking what's best from the universe and from Gothic 1 themes. It tells the origin of many things, what happened before nameless hero appeared under the barrier.
Sadly PB never managed to make a better game than Gothic 1
Thematically Gothic was their big gatsby. A pity they lost their bite so quickly.
What is this "build variety" you're talking about? I don't think we've played the same games xD
True, Gothic 2 had already lost some of its atmosphere compared to Gothic 1.
Have you ever heard of the Gothic Sequel? They cancelled the development and developed Gothic 2 instead. In my opinion, this was the wrong decision. Maybe you'll take a look at it and make a video about it?
Sure I know about the sequel. The thing is that very little was developed, so a video about that might be very short. However, I watched some LPs about the sequel and I like what I am seeing. There is a polish mod team that is developing a full sequel experience. There must be a demo out there which they released recently.
Also why do you pretend like Jharkendar isn't a thing? You have a swamp, you have a canyon, you have caves and even a temple. Like BRUH???
Does it even feel like Gothic though? It seems very tacked on and should belong in a different game...
you don't get the point at all
"sect" is descriptive, not derogative. The Brotherhood *is* a sect.
I don't know about this. They themselves prefer "brotherhood", that is even said in the game afaik. On top "being in a sect" has negative connotations where I come from.
@@vertigo7082 "Religious", "Zealous" and "Pious" are also seen as a negative depending on who you ask, yet none of those terms are derogatory, and are viewed as positive traits by some. Sect is usually only a negative term in highly religious followings of mainstream faiths that don't like splinter groups, or highly anti-religious hyper-secularist circles.
Even "Cult" isn't a strictly negative term, although it has much stronger connotations than "Sect". For every evil kool-aid drinking cult you have a work of fiction that has a "cult following" which is considered a positive trait. In historical context, cult is not a negative or derogatory term, the religious followings of different gods in pagan cultures were called 'cults'. The word gets outright negative connotations only in strictly secular circles, while 'sects' get them in mainstream religions that don't like splinter groups.
In the context of Gothic, there's nothing that leads me to believe that the term sect is used as a derogative. It is a completely neutral term. The ones who don't like them call them 'loonies', but "sect loonie" doesn't make the word "sect" any more derogative than "new camp thug" makes "new camp" derogative. Unless you're in the Old Camp, obviously.
14:00 Gothic1,2 is a Aztec Game. If you study the Aztecs, you will be completely overwhelmed and understand nothing. Similarly, if you deal with the Hallstatt culture, it's completely foreign.
Then you realize: This is the Gotik, that is, Deutsche culture, and my grandma and my porn consumption.
Gothic being an aztec game is surely a statement.
I can see some influences like in Jharkendar and maybe even the houses of the NC but above and beyond that I fail to see the connection. Maybe you should explain this point a little better?
The last sentence I don't really understand either.
@@vertigo7082 So the story genre is:
Aztec game, so the protagonist is just a “just waiting” for the feast day, when he will be harvested as a human sacrifice.
That means:
- a specific race exploit pornography reaped.
- rabbit cry.
- Psychological Operation, learn from each other.
- Psychological Operation, maneuver into the respect dead end, “Should, Shouldn't”.
- low fantasy metaphorical narrative of today's life experience.
- Suicide jumping.
These games also have this genre:
- Days Gone 2019.
- Legacy of Kain Series 1997 to 2004.
- Shadow Man 1999.
- GTA San Andreas 2004.
- GTA 4 2009.
- Red Dead Redemption 2 2018.
- The Last of Us 2013.
@@Tottokamm All nice and well that you are listing all these pieces but what about giving me specifics?
Where in Gothic is "a specific race exploit pornography reaped"? What does that even mean?
"Rabbit cry" ???
What PsyOps?
It is kinda obvious that when making any game that our lives and experiences influence the game. What does that have to do with aztec culture?
Suicide jumping...Is that a metaphor for the nameless hero being thrown into the colony? That was hardly suicide when he got pushed.
What even is a "story genre: aztec"?
Please give concrete details, else these things sound too far-fetched.
@@vertigo7082 G1 2001 and G2 2002 is an illegal pirate copy and illegal modding of "Shadow Man 1999"
G1 is 50% Eurojank, i.e. random Mannerisms, 20% unfinished, and 30% Cookie Cutter Gothic Fiction genre
G2 is 10% Eurojank, 10% unfinished, and 80% cookie cutter gothic fiction genre
Unlike Risen3 or Elex2, G1 and G2 were created in a kind of trance, sleepwalking, crunch work process.
For example, "Olan's Tavern" is a Mannerism in G2.
See the video:
WIR SPRECHEN UNS NOCH! - Der Gothic-Podcast mit Jorgenson & Kurga #68 Gast: Mario Röske 08.03.2024
The video also explains that "Mike Hoge" almost committed suicide in front of the other developers, almost lying as a corpse in the Piranha Bytes studio.
In trying to explain when Why a game is a Cookie Cutter Gothic Fiction genre.
@@vertigo7082 I'm still making explanatory videos for G1 and G2.
However, only after the release of the remake.
The developers at THQ Nordic Embracer Group are "Just Waiting" human sacrifices. and I want to ogle this.
For myself, I'm still waiting for tech demos with Unreal Engine 5 etc.
Because:
Gothic is always a cookie cutter, and not a ridiculous tech demo.
I have already finished commenting on the RETRO Remastered and PREQUEL.
And why this can be implemented with retro gameplay and not with modern Days Gone Unreal Engine 5 gameplay and narrative design.
see my video:
[TTS] Legend of the Romagna The Gothic Pequel outlined with Gothic2 gameplay
Gothic 1 had better music than 2?? get outta here!
that's a very subjective take I guess ;D
5:23 Are you playing The Lord of the Rings Return to Moria? no, because mines are always a flop as a setting. annoying walking paths and no experience. The mines in Legend of Ahssun and Archolos have already told mine to the end for me. When it comes to mines, you can only do everything wrong: either it is implemented far too romantically or far too strictly.
incredible smoothbrain take, I can only congratulate. Not everyday I get to read something quite so stupid and divorced from reality, I applaud
...and the LoA and CoM are based on which game? Sure we can talk about modifications, but this video is about the original.
Mines can be great for worldbuilding but it is surely very subjective if someone likes to play "underground" or not.
There are a lot of early games using "dungeons" as their setting, Arx Fatalis or Ultima Underworld for example are taking place completely underground.
What do you even mean with romantically and too strictly? Do you want an accurate depiction of mining in video games? That would be very boring, I can tell you that.
@@vertigo7082 "Gothic" is always a cookie cutter.
So to understand "Gothic genre" you need minimal life experience.
If you have no life experience at all and are not a consumer on TH-cam, Twitter, etc. then it is impossible to talk to you about Gothic genre.
You're just a troll who thinks Gothic is forever overrated,as forever thinks: Embracer Group, THQ Nordic
Here:
Just Google mines, for example mines in Belgium in the 19th century. or Tagebau Garzweiler ect.
And compare this with Gothic1 2001 from Eurojank developer Piranha Bytes
Love the atmosphere, but the sleeper story was a bit too wack imo.
I would have preferred the story would stay a little more grounded. Like just making the orcs the big bad instead of an incient god worshipped by stoners.
At the least i think myrtana had a better story execution. The politics, the pettiness. If feels more gothic than being a chosen one.