One thing I'm sad over about Winterhold; It could've been a good location for another lovecraftian/eldritch quest. The sea *literally* swallowed most of the city, why not make it weird?
this is so true! not to mention the entire sea and ice below everything has always creeped me out. doesn't help that hermaeus mora sneaks up on you in a quest down there. really a missed opportunity.
When I thought "which one is the worst" I didn't think Winterhold, mostly because I didn't even rank that among the cities. Just a village really. Rorikstead and Riverwood have more stuff.
Well, I might have disagreed about Rorikstead until the new re-release of the game with the new Goldenhills Plantation located next to Rorikstead, but yeah, now even Whiterun’s two minor settlements have more stuff than Winterhold. Dragon Bridge too, for that matter.
Honestly I like Morthal, I spent a lot of time there. I think it being this little hamlet of a city in the shadow of Solitude set in this dark dismal swamp is an interesting contrast to some of the others which are in more typical northern latitude environments. It feels like a city in a Scandinavian peat bog with all manner of beasties and vampires running around in the shadows. The jarl is also great and the quests and npcs are just fun for me.
Morthal's characters are my favorite too, out of all the places its story and people are what I like best. While I wanna like Falkreath but I just don't care about anyone, and I usually spend loads of time in Riften but, again, somehow the people (outside of the thieves guild) just feel less real to me. If we're including guilds I feel like Riften wins hands down in terms of compelling characters but Morthal is just special somehow
Morthal's aesthetic? Wonderful. Morthal's size (and the same goes for the size of most cities in Skyrim to be honest)? Pitiful and sad. Even a few more buildings here and there, maybe a couple that are taller, would give it some life, but it just seems so ridiculously tiny as-is.
I would agree with Winterhold being on the bottom simply for the fact that if you aren't playing a mage or magick inclined character, there is absolutely NO reason to go there, there is nothing going on in the "city" itself and the literal 3 (yes THREE) in-tact buildings being called a city is just insulting. For instance I can still think of plenty of reasons to visit Riften even if I have no intention of playing a Thief. I'd also have Falkreath near the top due to it's unique landscape and vibe, being in a heavy green forest, especially if we take Hearthfire into account it has my favorite house location for a no fast travel playthrough. it's just a road away from your manor and having the blacksmith outside that you can buy and sell to without going into any buildings is a big time saver.
I personally think maybe Dawnstar might be lower, without mods it's basically just a smaller version of Windhelm with no dark elves. It's the Nordiest city where all the Nords do their Nording. Yeah Mehrunes Razor is cool and nostalgic and the Dark Brotherhood moves in at the end of their questline. It has more buildings than Winterhold but less identity.
I agree with Scott’s placement of dawnstar, it just has this really interesting vibe with the dark brotherhood sanctuary and nightcaller temple. It just had this sort of darker atmosphere that kinda sells it for me
I dont really count the dawnstar sanctuary because you dont unlock it until you are basically done with the quest line so you end up going there like 3 times. However i do really like the dawnstar vibe, maybe the dawnstar chest is carrying it.
@@Nollic15 To me Falkreath is the best. It has all of the merchants you need (blacksmith, general trader, and alchemist shop). If I am not mistaken, I think Dawnstar only has a blacksmith and a alchemist shop. I also love how it is in a large forest. Not only does it look nice, It also gives this type of off the grid vibe, which I generally like.
While Falkreath has more amenities and scenic appeal for a player character, I imagine Dawnstar is the richest, biggest, and busiest of the minor hold capitals, and does seem to have more stuff going on.
@@michaelh1603 While Dawnstar has more of a busy port and mining town feel with a lot going on, I agree that I myself prefer Falkreath, and if I were ever plopped down into Skyrim, Falkreath would be one of my top picks for places to live.
My first impression of Markarth was when exiting the Temple of Dibella during the a Night to Remember quest, in my first playthrough. I was in awe. Up to that point I had only experienced the more rural towns.
My first playthrough was last year, I only did the main quest and never visited half the towns. 😂 I think the only time I visited Windhelm was to invite Ulfric to a peace summit with the Greybeards, and the only reason I went to Winterhold was on the way to the scholar in the sea of ghosts. I never saw Falkreath, Morthal, Markarth, or Dawnstar before my second playthrough. I didn't even know the Forsworn only lived in the Reach until recently because of my visit to Markarth, they just seemed like bandits with a theme.
I'm going to stick up for Morthal. While Morthal only has a few quests, those quests have solid structure and some of the best character writing of any side quests. It also is visually distinct, and at the crossroads of a few biomes making the surrounding area have pretty great enemy variety. The biggest reason I place it higher than others might (I still only place it 5th) is the abundance of alchemical ingredients in the area and a shop which fits that theme. Alchemy always plays a big part in my playthroughs so Morthal tends to become a sort of hub. That's why I rate it higher anyway.
I feel like the problem with the smaller ciries is that they didn't go far enough into the vibe that each the setting was, mortal could have been had like a very mystic creepy haunted vibe with vampires etc. Lurking in the swamp lands, winter hold they could have leaned really into the ruined city aesthetic by making it bigger but more destroyed with a large amount of homeless people with quests to delve into the ruins and really ramp up the dread of the city, dawnstar needed to have more of a trade/raiders port type deal and falkreath needed to embrace the big theme of death sort of thing
I'd rank Markarth top, too, but I don't like actually being there much. It's got such an oppressive, hostile feel to it from the conspiracy, the people, the toxic fumes coming out of the silver mines, etc. It feels like somewhere that breaks people and that you can't escape if you're from there.
Not to mention that half the cities merchants are cannibals, the forsworn outside want you dead whether you're an innocent traveler, or a Reachmen (considering what happened in Karthwasten). A priest of Boethia challenging Molag Bal within the city walls. Priestesses of Dibella that will enslave or kill you based on your gender, should you interrupt their rituals. Markarth is definitely not a place I'd want to live if I had to pick a place in Skyrim to settle "real life".
@@bacd-nn2lg its a great starting point for an aspiring Sellsword as well, unless you're playing on a higher difficulty. I also like breaking into the treasury and temple to steal with a thief-type playthrough.
BOYS! i got an idea for a podcast theme, since you guys love roleplay, why don't you showcase your favourite characters/playtroughs? Like, i could talk about my characters for hours, and the differences between different playtroughs and playstyles, the headcannon i formed, and the length of which i went with different characters. I would love to hear your experiences.
@@K_Kobeabsolutely. It looks as if they didn’t want to stress the engine and break the intro more than it already did so frequently that they set it up to be broken down easily. Playing with Alternate Perspective is super cool but made me realize that even with dedicated attention to make it feel alive, the bones are bare to begin with.
Whiterun gets the number one spot for a lot of people due to one word: PRESENTATION! If you're playing how Bethesda intended it's the big city you'll reach first and, as such, they went all out making it look amazing and feel like a real city and even getting the player to feel attached to the Jarl.
Except they didn't? Whiterun uses the complete Bethesda playbook worse than every other major city. Riften is arguably a more impressive Whiterun than Whiterun
I'm with Scott about Dawnstar. I thought it was a more interesting place to visit than Winterhold since even the college quests were more or less dull-and one of my characters was a Altmer mage! Though, we all KNOW that Scott likes Dawnstar because of the callback to Oblivion. XD
I only wish we had the magical power to restore Winterhold, or even a mage takeover quest line for peace in Skyrim between the Imperial Legion and Stormcloaks as sort of a intermediate, reinstating Winterhold as capital after it's restoration through some intense magic regarding the Eye of Magnus. Edit: Or even the restoration of Bromjunaar or Saarthal Excavation(and further investigation), as unless I'm wrong, those were abandoned ancient city hubs.
Yeah, winterhold could have used some sort of alternate timeline shift after the eye of magnus quest, it could have restored the city and college, thus making your mage guild carry more "gravitas" after becoming guildmaster...
@@Itsabl_r I remember Galandil saying he would do something like that in his quest plugin for holds if that ever happens. I don't think it has anything to do with the eye but he did say there might be some time travel stuff.
Riften is the best city in terms of available content, there are far more miscellaneous quests there than any other city, and by far the lengthiest questline in the Thieves Guild (if you choose to restore it to it's former glory). which is also one of the better questlines IMO.
I feel like I spent the most time in bruma of all the smaller cities, it’s player owned house is right next to the city gates, it has the player statue, the great gate battle, the gathering of soldiers across cyrodill, the destruction of the mages guild, unique snowy location, and is a very large city as far as number of buildings, you can jump around on the roofs of your acrobatics is high enough, all the akiviri stuff with the countess, being close the Cloud ruler temple, just so many cool thing I can think of off the top of my head.
Markarth is my least favorite of the larger cities, due to the fact that I have had several characters attacked/arrested upon my first visit. Also, the King in rags quest has no advantage gained or lost due to your choices. The Foresworn still attack on sight. The top of my list is Solitude, Whiterun, Falkreith(best Hearthfire sight) and Raven rock.
@@AnakinTheWeird But well what you're describing would be ranking importance, not how good of a jarl they are like they did here with cities. Idgrod is most certainly a better Jarl than all three. Maven is an arguably good jarl, but is extremely corrupt. Balgruuf is Idgrod's major competition even though the neutrality didn't exactly work out well for the people of his hold while Idgrod has always done what's best for her people. Ulfric I think is unlikely to rank very high considering he segregated a large portion of Windhelm. If this comes to quality of leading their hold, Ulfric belongs down alongside people like Skald the Elder and both Falkreath jarls.
I actually really like Falkreath and in at least half of my playthroughs go there either straight from Helgen or right after Riverwood but before Whiterun. Though it can be argued that it's so forgettable that they had to make the courier give you a letter from Jarl Siddgeir just to remind you it's there. Lakeview Manor is a great homestead though.
Idk, precisely because of the creepy theme of Morthal, the depressing swamps, and player home I rate it pretty highly. The swamps are easily the land feature that stands out the most from the rest of skyrim. The swamp makes good for a lot of character builds/rp, pkus its very scenic. Now I will admit Besthesda could have done more with Morthal, or the rest of Skyrim for that matter. Like when I think swamps I think magical herbs (alchemy), fish (another fishery perhaps?), and well preserved bodies (necromancers). Plus not all of Morthal is swamp in game, they could've really fleshed it out.
It also feels the most reasonable to be so small imo. It feels like a barely surviving frontier town, no one would want to move there unless they’re outcasts or researchers like Falion. The others suffer far more for their lack of scale.
@@baronofbahlingen9662 Actually I think it would grow because of the researchers in particular. Where would a better place to go be for the magically inflicted? Maybe a new college? Perhaps more in line with alchemy?
I would say Winterhold over Dawnstar. The color of the Northern Lights as well as the College are the main reasons, as well as the leg of the Thieves Guild quest that takes place there. Going into the inn in Winterhold just feels so much cozier than Dawnstar, too.
I'm team Drew between Winterhold and Dawnstar. I hate going to Dawnstar. The Jarl is a JERK, the questlines are good but I only do them as a means to an end on most playthroughs, and most of the NPCs are not memorable. Winterhold may be small and sad but I love the struggle there. It could be better but I would go there before Dawnstar. P.S Morthal would top both Winterhold and Dawnstar on my personal list. Who doesn't love a supernatural loner city in the Swamp lol. Thanks Fudgemuppet! You keep Skyrim love and debate alive.
6:00 scott is right,, falkreath is falkreath because of the death n daedric princes plague that hold. Not because its boring. Ur in a civil war, skyrim was ravaged. U have lots of werewolves and vampires which in other games was a rarer sight. Now dragons. Thalmer etc. Even the shops etc are named so because of the town, deathly concoctions the alchemist for example. Dengeir paranoid of a plot against him jumps straight into a vampire quest lol. Lod with clavicus vile n borbas, singeir in the barracks mauls a girl. The princes are the reason falkreath is f*cked lol. Only sanguine quests seem to have a decent quest in terms of innocence and fun. Every other prince has u slaying their former champion, or sowing the seeds of evil.
I know right you take one class learn a basic deflect spell and boom your on a save the college quest line I whould love more prouper classes. I think it would have been better if it was a layerd quest line take a class,take a test go on a quest take a class take a test so on then once you mastered magic then save the school and become the arch mage
That's a problem with all the games factions besides the Thieves Guild unfortunately. The Companions, Mages, and Darkbrotherhood needs more soul in the systems/writing within the games factions. The Thieves Guild, I would've liked to have your rank actually recognized within the guild, but you still have to earn your way to Guildmaster. Instead of inheriting it like the Companions, or be given that position by an unrelated guild based out of Summerest in the CoW questline.
Raven Rock is probably my favorite city in Skyrim, I love the dunmer architectural aesthetic. I just wish I could move my in-game family to Severin Manor, that big house feels awfully lonely and makes me not want to spend time there for any reason other than to admire my museum pieces. Markarth and Windhelm are tied for second. Vlindrel Hall is probably my favorite base-game player home, and the aesthetic of the city is great, but I find the Cidhna Mine and assorted daedra quests there to be exceptionally tedious. Blood on the Ice is less tedious to me, and as a Stormcloak main I like living close to High King Ulfric. I just wish that Lucien and Inigo would shut the hell up about how much they dislike it, makes me want to kick them both off the bridge whenever they start whining about how dreary the place is. I hope everyone has a blessed day today; my house almost burned down this morning and, while I was able to put it out before any serious damage was done, I'm going to be spending the rest of the morning cleaning up the fire damage. Stay safe and don't smoke, kids.
I agree Raven Rock is my personal favorite city, maybe nostalgia though; the house is great [btw a great module to add a similar house outside Whiterun that you can move your family into called fafnircomplete
I love the argument of "Dawnstar is just like Rorikstead in the snow" and Michael is just like, "Yeah but it has like boats and water and such" Just makes me rank Dawnstar as 2nd best of the bottom 4.
I've always loved Whiterun because of the blend of fantastical aesthetics with the mundane medieval type vibe. You have a decent size city with shops befitting the area like the drunken huntsman and the stalls where produce from the surrounding farms are sold, and you also have a grand palace that overlooks the city with large steps and water running throughout the city in little channels and waterfalls. It just all ads up to make a visibly appealing city that I feel is really befitting of the setting.
Just so you know, the Shrine of Azura is connected to Winterhold, Brelyna mentions that many dunmer flocked to the College of Winterhold eventually constructing what is easily the second best statue in the game (Dagon frowning down at you barely beats it)
The amount of quests, memorable experiences, way of life, feeling of hustling living city with an economy, Jorrvaskr, the architecture, the ability to see it across the map in its majestic beauty, and just my delight to be within the city walls, Whitrun is easily #1 in my book. It’s as much as Skyrim as the snow that falls on the throat of the world
The thing is about Winterhold, the college IS there. It doesn't matter if you're a mage or not, the building itself is still a part of the city. There are plenty of cities in real life with cool looking buildings you can't go into that people travel to go to see (Like the UK's Royal Palace).
I would rank Balmora above Sadrith Mora because of how much more fun it is to exist there. I mean, it’s really dense and the river is also iconic, especially with the silt strider sounds mixed in.
Skyrim Villages/Towns Ranked? Riverwood, Rorikstead, Ivarstead, etc... I think it'd be pretty cool. Obviously don't go as in-depth, just like the same criteria but dumbed down so it doesn't get too repetitive. But I think most towns have like unique environments and vibes. Also maybe include settlements from the Dragonborn DLC
Absolutely love seeing the friendly competition, trying to convince each other why you’re in the right. It’s hilarious and really shows the friendship between you all. I would argue that it makes us love this channel even more that there’s a difference of opinions. Keep up the great work guys. Favorite channel on TH-cam.
Azura’s quest has to count for Winterhold! You see her statue the entire time you’re there/at the college, and her quest actually takes you to the city. Also, the college is a major quest line. Winterhold > Dawnstar
You guys are my favorite. I literally re-watch all your guys videos constantly. not a single video i havent seen multiple times. I'm very thankful for you guys.
Riften's my 1st fav 1.) huge waterfront house you can buy 2.) guild quest+daedra quest combo 3.) fortified, (like windhelm or whiterun, and unlike dawnstar and morthal) ((altho Morthal is my 2nd fav)) 4.) riften has 2 distinct social lives, which is fun (the market square atop, and the ratways below) 5.) the secret entrance to the thieves' guild gives a layer of spookiness and secrecy 6.) the jarl's quarters/palace in riften is distinct, like solitude's Blue Palace, or Markarth's Stone...something. (unlike, again, in morthal or dawnstar. they don't have their own symbol on the map. what a shame.) 7.) riften's location is very strategic. it's accessed like 3 different ways, if that (probably more), and thus has access to all sorts of natural resources around it. 8.) lore-wise, again, riften has a guild+daedra combo quest (nocturnal w/ the thieves), but also a history of the Blackbriar clan. This list doesn't overpower any reasons for why the other cities are great too, this is just me gathering my thoughts. :)
I would high key put Falkreath above all of the minor cities and windhelm. Falkreath, whiterun, solitude, Riften and markarth are the cities I actually want to go to. Every other city feels like going there is a chore that you do for a quest
Here is my list: 1. Solitude - capital of Skyrim, and has the most expensive house that every hight level character will buy, and there are some Vampire vibes in Jarl court, 2. Markath - the only capital hold that is located in dwemer ruins, and this is the place were you get rich by mining the gold as a low level character, 3. Riften - main hub for your "merchant" empire, which is the best faction in this game, because their side quests at least give you something in return, 4. Winterhold - earned this place beacuse I pay too much female Nords that supports Ulfric, 5. Whiterun - kinda focuses too much on the main plot, of the game which takes somewhat the full experience if you want to delay the dragon attacks, 6. Winterhold - two reasons they have the mages guild headquarters (every court mage have studied there, and so much more under the facade), and main enchanted weapons distributor in skyrim (every bloody enchanted weapon you find in bandit camps, or used by any npc found in skyrim, you even get them as a reward for your service in civil war) 7. Dawnstar - Dark Brotherhood, and nostatgia for Oblivion fans, 8. Mortal - Vampire quest, 9. Falkreath - it's pretty but to tell the truth its surrounding forest it's much more interesting the the town itself. Bonus: Raven Rock is still going to be my main base of operations regarding the build, because it has the best player home, and merchants have a decent amount of money.
I found Winterhold to be the best decimated city in Skyrim. It was a lot larger and more opulent, with the white stone and dark oak. Till the fateful day when a few Magicusers went Megumin on it. "EXPLOSION!" Try to remember, prior to magic being feared, Mages guilds were built close to the centre of citys. Cheers great stream, loads of fun.
My top 3 would be Whiterun, Windhelm, and Solitude as 1, 2, and 3 respectively. Whiterun is just iconic. Its yellow and white banner is unique, I like it. Plus, Nazeem is there. I love the big stone walls and ancient cold capital of windhelm. Solitude has a great feel, it reminds me of Kingdom Come Deliverance cities, great medieval vibes
As “one of the few” that actually played the games in the order they released, my take on the Oblivion towns mentioned is: Bruma, Bravil, Leyawiin from best to worst. The only reason I would put Bravil over Leyawiin is that Leyawiin is utterly forgettable. Even years later I can still picture walking into both Bruma and Bravil, but not Leyawiin.
Well you're a rarity! I've never played an argonian. 😂 If I'm going to pick a beast racr then I always choose khajiit. My favorite are brettons for the humans and I avoid playing elves but if I do then I choose wood elves.
Winterhold and Dawnstar each have a guild HQ and quests, within the town, associated with its guild. Otherwise,, Winterhold has an angry jarl with a side quest or two, a shopkeep with a dragon claw, and a scripted event with said shopkeep on arrival. Dawnstar has an angry jarl with/at the focus of a quest or two, civil war involvement, two mines within the town itself, one of which is a quicksilver mine, two scripted events (one on arrival, one upon reaching a certain level) off the top of my head, two daedric prince quests (one of which gains you a free follower with some actual personality), multiple merchants, a fully-outfitted smithy (with smelters, courtesy the mines), an alchemy workshop, and a ship offering fast travel to other towns with harbors. TBH, I've sometimes said that Dawnstar is close to the bottom of the list of hold capitals only because I forget that Winterhold (outside of the college) exists.
I play on survival mode and I find that I enjoy Windhelm the most because I love the contrast of adventuring outside the city where everything is so freezing cold and then rushing back into the city to warm up. It feels so cozy and warm inside the inn compared to the frigid wastes outside.
You guys have a good ranking system based on the value-added to the game. I think I agree with Drew that Winterhold ranks higher than Dawnstar. While its execution could have been so much better, it is innately more interesting. Outwardly, it’s stoic, but inwardly, it’s dramatic. Even against crumbling cliff-sides, the city and college hold on, surviving. Better than any other single place or quest, Winterhold embodies the relationship between magic and Skyrim. The college slightly resembles a lighthouse on a frozen, rocky shore, a beacon of thought and enlightenment, threatened to be snuffed out forever by the passage of time. Winterhold is a place that makes you wonder about its past and theorize about its future. Dawnstar lacks the same compelling poetry in my opinion. Honestly, I really want an ESO chapter that focuses on Winterhold, so that this city gets the developer resources it deserves, not the half-baked “We ran out of time” version apparent in Skyrim. Also, seeing this former capital of Skyrim before the collapse would be fascinating!
Winter hold is unironically my favourite hold capital. A lone speck of light holding alone against the encroaching frigid tides of the sea of ghosts. The howling blizzards eroding away all but the core of a man. The sole refuge in The Frozen Hearth where the ale warms more than the flickering fire. Maybe it’s growing up in small town Canada but that is infinitely more appealing to me than Riften or Markarth.
Falkreath, of all the minor hold capitals, has all the amenities that you might find in a major city, other than a smelter (though Riften and Solitude don’t have smelters either).
@@th3thatguy631 Riften doesn’t have a smelter unless you use a mod, so I specially installed a mod that gives smelters to Riften and Solitude along with giving smelters and more smithing equipment to Falkreath, Dawnstar, and other minor cities lacking a full set of smithing stations because in Skyrim I’m a crafting nut, with all my otherwise diverse characters getting to 100 in smithing and enchantment, and often alchemy as well, depending.
Sorry Scott there's no way I'd rather be in Morthal or Dawnstar for any extended period of time more than the College. Those places are so unmemorable.
Windhelm is the best. The market is great. Enchanting table, forge, smelter and tons of merchants all next to each other without multiple loading screens.
My problem with Solitude is that it feels only barely more alive than Winterhold. It’s a huge city, but there’s only like six people walking around. Otherwise it’s only the merchants standing at their stalls. It’s just boring to walk around because on the day to day there’s nothing going on. Even Markarth feels like there’s more
Winterhold is the worst “city” of them all. You walk in and the first thing is a woman pleading her alcoholic husband to help, they haven’t rebuilt in 100+ years, no home to buy, and a busted college. Worst place.
Dawnstar picture looks a lot like the model of Birka as it is believed to have looked back in the viking age. My first pick is Whiterun based mostly on the feeling I get when Im there and a lot of nostalgia from my first play through. Also: "Whiterun offers numerous diversions for the man in search of adventure, fortune and companionship, whether for a night or for a lifetime. The city is graced with not one, but two worthy taverns and there are maids and wenches aplenty." -A Gentleman's Guide to Whiterun by Mikael the bard.
The college of winterhold is the only thing that makes winterhold a city. But if you’re not a mage, you won’t go to the college, or winterhold. There’s no reason to be in winterhold at all except for the college. Dawnstar has two mines, a ship, the museum, the whole nightmare vibe, there’s just no way winterhold competes
Great video as always guys! If I can make a request... any chance you could do a video on Aetherius sometime? I feel like I kinda understand the planes of Oblivion (well, as much as a mortal can!) but what do we know about the different realms and residents in Aetherius and how the various afterlives tie together? What makes Sovengarde, for example, a realm of Aetherius and not Oblivion? Would love to hear your commentary. Keep up the great work, love you guys!
"Whiterun... the pride of Skyrim. Doesn't look like much to me. Now Blacklight on the other hand, that's a proper city." -Teldryn Sero, Sassmaster Mercenary for hire, 4thEra: 201
Riverwood is my personal favorite. The location is so nice on the foot of a mountain and even though it's small, the town is super comfy and chill. Of course the memories also hits when u start the gameplay :)
The thing about Riverwood is that it has almost all the shops that a major city would. It has an inn that doubles as an alchemy shop, a blacksmith, and a general store. It would be nice to have a house there, though the Lakeview Manor is pretty close.
I think bethesda perfectly nailed the feeling for witerhold, he said the city is dead there is nothing there. That's the point you get to see what it's like for a city to fall, to fail, and to be forgotten to history. You start to question why this still living ruin of a city is the capital of a wealthy hold(lore says it once was the seat of power in skyrim). You also question it's future, will the college just consume the rest and make it a haven for mages that didn't get into the college proper. The only complaint I have for the design of winterhold is that it didn't look like it once was a powerful city, it is just a few farm houses and the generic ruined farm houses.
Why oh why would I feel the chill in winterhold ? I can never resist shouting at a guard for not finding my sweet roll . I've just mastered conjuration at want to show everyone my power.
Falkreath is for sure my favorite, Markarth is a close second but Falkreath's forest and cemetery and all the darkness associated with it is totally my vibe
whiterun feels like home, i would live there in real life it truly goes beyond the game, its like a feeling of being somewhere you enjoy. A beacon of opportunity.
Winterhold was my base of operations for 60 hours of my current pure illusion mage build. That is spending time working on magic skills, doing mage quests, side quests and generally exploring. I spent lot of time in that town and loved it.
I remember when I first played Skyrim about 9 years ago I was trying to star the mission to get the ring of Hircine, as I thought that it was the only way to become a werewolf at the time (Obviously looking back I was wrong) I spent the majority of two days literally going around on circles through Riverwoood looking for the jail to find Sinding only to realize later that it was in a completely different city.
My list of 1 being best and 9 being worst is this. 1: Whiterun 2: Morthal 3: Dawnstar 4: Windhelm 5: Winterhold 6: Solitude 7: Falkreath 8: Riften 9: Markarth If we included other towns/cities then the Skaal Village on Solsthiem would be second best.
Having seen the final list, yes, I can see a strong argument for Fudgemuppet ranking Markarth at the top. I have slightly fonder associations and memories with some of the other cities, but there's certainly a lot to delve into and explore in Markarth. The top 4 cities are very close for me, all standing out in my mind for different reasons. I was surprised Falkreath made it so high on the Fudgemuppet list. Apart from the Hircine quest and its proximity to the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, Falkreath always made a relatively weak impression on me. And I side with Drew when it comes to Winterhold. It's a valid criticism that, apart from the College and the inn where you get Azura's Star, there's nothing there. But the college is significant, and the whole place has an atmosphere all its own that makes it stand out (in my mind, at least) a bit more than Dawnstar or Falkreath.
Winterhold >>> all small cities. The desolation and the college give me some kind of artic melancholy vibe that really got me. I'm particularly biased too, 70% of my characters use some sort of magic. I greatly enjoy wandering around what is left of the city. I find extremely pleasant attempting to dive from the college bridge to the frigid waters, avoiding the potential death treat too 🤪
Old guy here (28yr old), I mostly agree with your oblivion cities list but I do have a soft spot for Chorrol, I just love that quaint little "town" in the forest
Oh I have been to all of the jails actually. When doing the Master Criminal achievement. Rather than paying the fines or going back to an earlier save I decided to serve my time. One week in every jail. Only in Riften did they recognize me as a wanted criminal and arrest me in all the other holds I had to do some more crimes to get them to actually arrest me. (yes I did Solsteim to even that it's not included) I went for the quickest crime, make sure to be seen by a guard, transfer into Vampire Lord and flee.
Loved dawnstar, the true feeling of being in a barren wasteland, the people are being haunted by an evil force, the arguments from both sides of the civil war make it actually feel connected to the events, and I get my favorite companion there.
I think maybe riften should have gotten a little bit more consideration, bc I personally think it and the rift as a whole has even more detail to it than whiterun does. The theives guild is obviously a huge selling point as one of the more interesting and developed factions in the game, but its one point. The Black briars have a LOT going on, there are a bunch of interesting quests surrounding Sibbi, Ingun is one of the most dedicated (and creepy) alchemists in skyrim, and Maven is the only character in the game to own multiple properties outside her home city, including the honningbrew meadery in whiterun hold if you complete the theives guild questline. She also will become Jarl of the rift if the dragonborn sides with the empire, which will effect trade from cyrodiil into skyrim. riften is pretty much the main hub for any followers of mara in skyrim, and the place where almost everyone in skyrim has their weddings. It's also where you start the book of love quest to play matchmaker all over skyrim. Plus one of the better love stories in the game between Keerava and Talen'je. Ant the whole scene in the bee and barb with maramal lecturing everyone. you get one of the few unique horses in the game here, as well as mjoll, one of the most unique followers outside of factions. there's lots of political intrigue with laila vs. Maven and the snowshod family, who attend as the groom's family at vittoria vici's wedding. there's illegal skooma trade as well as pit-fighting wolves elsewhere in the hold then there's haelga, she's alot to unpack. and in the middle of all the seediness and sin and complications of the adult characters, there's a bunch of helpless orphans trying to survive their abusive hag of a caretaker long enough to be adopted. Basically, every single character in riften has not only a unique personality, but a whole fleshed out backstory. You go into riften and talk to these characters and can remember every single one by name because they're all so unique and well developed.
I agree with Michael and Drew. Honestly the scenery and the lore of the environment is immaculate. I also like the lone towers idea of the college. Let's go Winterhold!
My pick for the two worst cities in Skyrim are Dawnstar and Morthal. Not only is there basically nothing in each one, you can sometimes even get attacked by animals (frostbite spiders in Morthal and wolves in Dawnstar) in both due to their lack of any walls. Seriously, I remember just getting out of the inn at Dawnstar and there being a wolf attacking sometimes. At least Winterhold has the college. For sentimental reasons, my favorite city is Whiterun but arguably the only one that actually feels like a proper city is Solitude. Oblivion's cities, by contrast to Skyrim, felt much larger with much more shops and landmarks. Skyrim's should have been on a closer scale to them.
One thing I'm sad over about Winterhold;
It could've been a good location for another lovecraftian/eldritch quest. The sea *literally* swallowed most of the city, why not make it weird?
this is so true! not to mention the entire sea and ice below everything has always creeped me out. doesn't help that hermaeus mora sneaks up on you in a quest down there. really a missed opportunity.
Agreed! The glaciers in Skyrim feel so uncanny, with all sorts of ancient sinister things hiding beneath the ice.
I know right
Scarlet Bard, thats an idea!
apparently it was at one point. It was supposed to be the player that caused the great collapse through the college of winterhold questline
When I thought "which one is the worst" I didn't think Winterhold, mostly because I didn't even rank that among the cities. Just a village really. Rorikstead and Riverwood have more stuff.
Apart from they don't
What’s in Rorikstead?
@@canismajoris6733 They do. Absolutely.
Winterhold has a jarl, a college and a mine
Well, I might have disagreed about Rorikstead until the new re-release of the game with the new Goldenhills Plantation located next to Rorikstead, but yeah, now even Whiterun’s two minor settlements have more stuff than Winterhold. Dragon Bridge too, for that matter.
Falkreath is always criminally underrated. The landscape is stunning.
I agree.. Falkreath is my second favorite after Windhelm.
The architecture needed its own flavor to reach its full potential
That’s why I buy land in falkreath hold every time
this
sitting right next to dark brotherhood and bloodlet throne.
Honestly I like Morthal, I spent a lot of time there. I think it being this little hamlet of a city in the shadow of Solitude set in this dark dismal swamp is an interesting contrast to some of the others which are in more typical northern latitude environments. It feels like a city in a Scandinavian peat bog with all manner of beasties and vampires running around in the shadows. The jarl is also great and the quests and npcs are just fun for me.
Morthal's characters are my favorite too, out of all the places its story and people are what I like best. While I wanna like Falkreath but I just don't care about anyone, and I usually spend loads of time in Riften but, again, somehow the people (outside of the thieves guild) just feel less real to me. If we're including guilds I feel like Riften wins hands down in terms of compelling characters but Morthal is just special somehow
Morthal is also my city. My DB always helps Morthal out. Falkreath is my homestead though. Comfortable forest on the side of a lake, yes plz.
Morthal's aesthetic? Wonderful. Morthal's size (and the same goes for the size of most cities in Skyrim to be honest)? Pitiful and sad. Even a few more buildings here and there, maybe a couple that are taller, would give it some life, but it just seems so ridiculously tiny as-is.
I agree the peat bog feel, really sets the the tone and the wilderness is unmistakable, you know you're in Morthal, one of my favorites.
I love it’s creepiness and also Falkreath’s low key creepy vibes.
I would agree with Winterhold being on the bottom simply for the fact that if you aren't playing a mage or magick inclined character, there is absolutely NO reason to go there, there is nothing going on in the "city" itself and the literal 3 (yes THREE) in-tact buildings being called a city is just insulting. For instance I can still think of plenty of reasons to visit Riften even if I have no intention of playing a Thief. I'd also have Falkreath near the top due to it's unique landscape and vibe, being in a heavy green forest, especially if we take Hearthfire into account it has my favorite house location for a no fast travel playthrough. it's just a road away from your manor and having the blacksmith outside that you can buy and sell to without going into any buildings is a big time saver.
The only reason I rank it high personally is because I always use magic and the vibe, but mostly mods that expand winterhold
I personally think maybe Dawnstar might be lower, without mods it's basically just a smaller version of Windhelm with no dark elves. It's the Nordiest city where all the Nords do their Nording. Yeah Mehrunes Razor is cool and nostalgic and the Dark Brotherhood moves in at the end of their questline. It has more buildings than Winterhold but less identity.
@@NamelessKing1597 I don’t really see winterhold having identity so much as I see the college having a truck stop nearby
But the farm outclasses the heartfire homes by far
@@mattaddison4794 that's cool way to think about it
I agree with Scott’s placement of dawnstar, it just has this really interesting vibe with the dark brotherhood sanctuary and nightcaller temple. It just had this sort of darker atmosphere that kinda sells it for me
I dont really count the dawnstar sanctuary because you dont unlock it until you are basically done with the quest line so you end up going there like 3 times. However i do really like the dawnstar vibe, maybe the dawnstar chest is carrying it.
Dawnstar is definitely the best of the non-big cities.
@@Nollic15 To me Falkreath is the best. It has all of the merchants you need (blacksmith, general trader, and alchemist shop). If I am not mistaken, I think Dawnstar only has a blacksmith and a alchemist shop. I also love how it is in a large forest. Not only does it look nice, It also gives this type of off the grid vibe, which I generally like.
While Falkreath has more amenities and scenic appeal for a player character, I imagine Dawnstar is the richest, biggest, and busiest of the minor hold capitals, and does seem to have more stuff going on.
@@michaelh1603 While Dawnstar has more of a busy port and mining town feel with a lot going on, I agree that I myself prefer Falkreath, and if I were ever plopped down into Skyrim, Falkreath would be one of my top picks for places to live.
My first impression of Markarth was when exiting the Temple of Dibella during the a Night to Remember quest, in my first playthrough. I was in awe. Up to that point I had only experienced the more rural towns.
That’s wild, Markarth was the last major city I visited. So out of the way compared to the others
My first playthrough was last year, I only did the main quest and never visited half the towns. 😂
I think the only time I visited Windhelm was to invite Ulfric to a peace summit with the Greybeards, and the only reason I went to Winterhold was on the way to the scholar in the sea of ghosts. I never saw Falkreath, Morthal, Markarth, or Dawnstar before my second playthrough. I didn't even know the Forsworn only lived in the Reach until recently because of my visit to Markarth, they just seemed like bandits with a theme.
I'm going to stick up for Morthal. While Morthal only has a few quests, those quests have solid structure and some of the best character writing of any side quests. It also is visually distinct, and at the crossroads of a few biomes making the surrounding area have pretty great enemy variety. The biggest reason I place it higher than others might (I still only place it 5th) is the abundance of alchemical ingredients in the area and a shop which fits that theme. Alchemy always plays a big part in my playthroughs so Morthal tends to become a sort of hub. That's why I rate it higher anyway.
I feel like the problem with the smaller ciries is that they didn't go far enough into the vibe that each the setting was, mortal could have been had like a very mystic creepy haunted vibe with vampires etc. Lurking in the swamp lands, winter hold they could have leaned really into the ruined city aesthetic by making it bigger but more destroyed with a large amount of homeless people with quests to delve into the ruins and really ramp up the dread of the city, dawnstar needed to have more of a trade/raiders port type deal and falkreath needed to embrace the big theme of death sort of thing
It is the only place where it feels like the residents like living there
I'd rank Markarth top, too, but I don't like actually being there much. It's got such an oppressive, hostile feel to it from the conspiracy, the people, the toxic fumes coming out of the silver mines, etc. It feels like somewhere that breaks people and that you can't escape if you're from there.
Sounds exactly like Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania where I grew up!
Not to mention that half the cities merchants are cannibals, the forsworn outside want you dead whether you're an innocent traveler, or a Reachmen (considering what happened in Karthwasten). A priest of Boethia challenging Molag Bal within the city walls. Priestesses of Dibella that will enslave or kill you based on your gender, should you interrupt their rituals.
Markarth is definitely not a place I'd want to live if I had to pick a place in Skyrim to settle "real life".
This is the best early level money making place if you are not using any glitches, or exploits.
@@bacd-nn2lg its a great starting point for an aspiring Sellsword as well, unless you're playing on a higher difficulty. I also like breaking into the treasury and temple to steal with a thief-type playthrough.
And this is why you cannot list it as top. It is worse than Windhelm as far as depression goes. It is a warriors' paradise though.
BOYS! i got an idea for a podcast theme, since you guys love roleplay, why don't you showcase your favourite characters/playtroughs? Like, i could talk about my characters for hours, and the differences between different playtroughs and playstyles, the headcannon i formed, and the length of which i went with different characters. I would love to hear your experiences.
I would love to see that great idea
That sounds like an awesome idea. I'd definitely tune in for that. 😎👍
And the comment section could give us an outlet to do the same
Yes please
omg that would be great ugh
Helgen looks pretty cool pre dragon attack. Reminds me of Kvatch.
I didn’t like helgen cause it just feels like a bandit camp, even pre destruction
@@K_Kobeabsolutely. It looks as if they didn’t want to stress the engine and break the intro more than it already did so frequently that they set it up to be broken down easily. Playing with Alternate Perspective is super cool but made me realize that even with dedicated attention to make it feel alive, the bones are bare to begin with.
Whiterun gets the number one spot for a lot of people due to one word: PRESENTATION!
If you're playing how Bethesda intended it's the big city you'll reach first and, as such, they went all out making it look amazing and feel like a real city and even getting the player to feel attached to the Jarl.
I understood that reference.
Mega mega megamind
Except they didn't? Whiterun uses the complete Bethesda playbook worse than every other major city. Riften is arguably a more impressive Whiterun than Whiterun
@@williamchristy9463 Yes they did… Whiterun looks amazing
@@EmeraldaKasim to be fair, I actually do agree with that. Only-- Every major city in Skyrim except Solitude is better.
I get where Scott is coming from. The immersive vibe of each location has to be considered
I'm with Scott about Dawnstar. I thought it was a more interesting place to visit than Winterhold since even the college quests were more or less dull-and one of my characters was a Altmer mage! Though, we all KNOW that Scott likes Dawnstar because of the callback to Oblivion. XD
I love how they just went into Oblivion cities at the end out of spite lmfao
I only wish we had the magical power to restore Winterhold, or even a mage takeover quest line for peace in Skyrim between the Imperial Legion and Stormcloaks as sort of a intermediate, reinstating Winterhold as capital after it's restoration through some intense magic regarding the Eye of Magnus.
Edit:
Or even the restoration of Bromjunaar or Saarthal Excavation(and further investigation), as unless I'm wrong, those were abandoned ancient city hubs.
Yeah, winterhold could have used some sort of alternate timeline shift after the eye of magnus quest, it could have restored the city and college, thus making your mage guild carry more "gravitas" after becoming guildmaster...
Mods?
@@ultraguy0 none yet.
@@Itsabl_r I remember Galandil saying he would do something like that in his quest plugin for holds if that ever happens. I don't think it has anything to do with the eye but he did say there might be some time travel stuff.
This is what the game is about guys. They gave us a World and a system. We are to build modules and our own campaigns with Creation Kit.
Riften is the best city in terms of available content, there are far more miscellaneous quests there than any other city, and by far the lengthiest questline in the Thieves Guild (if you choose to restore it to it's former glory). which is also one of the better questlines IMO.
I feel like I spent the most time in bruma of all the smaller cities, it’s player owned house is right next to the city gates, it has the player statue, the great gate battle, the gathering of soldiers across cyrodill, the destruction of the mages guild, unique snowy location, and is a very large city as far as number of buildings, you can jump around on the roofs of your acrobatics is high enough, all the akiviri stuff with the countess, being close the Cloud ruler temple, just so many cool thing I can think of off the top of my head.
Markarth is my least favorite of the larger cities, due to the fact that I have had several characters attacked/arrested upon my first visit. Also, the King in rags quest has no advantage gained or lost due to your choices. The Foresworn still attack on sight. The top of my list is Solitude, Whiterun, Falkreith(best Hearthfire sight) and Raven rock.
I would love to see you guys rank the Jarls one by one similarly to this list
That is a fantastic idea. They could include the Jarls changed by the civil war too.
Well Balgruuf and Ulfric would just top the list. Who the hell would place Laila Law-Giver over those two?
@@RylonEdits Idgrod Ravencrone is a genuine contender for top of the list.
@@genevievesweet7741 Top 5, sure, but no way she's taking top spot from Balgruuf, Ulfric, or Maven if we're including replacements.
@@AnakinTheWeird But well what you're describing would be ranking importance, not how good of a jarl they are like they did here with cities. Idgrod is most certainly a better Jarl than all three. Maven is an arguably good jarl, but is extremely corrupt. Balgruuf is Idgrod's major competition even though the neutrality didn't exactly work out well for the people of his hold while Idgrod has always done what's best for her people. Ulfric I think is unlikely to rank very high considering he segregated a large portion of Windhelm. If this comes to quality of leading their hold, Ulfric belongs down alongside people like Skald the Elder and both Falkreath jarls.
I actually really like Falkreath and in at least half of my playthroughs go there either straight from Helgen or right after Riverwood but before Whiterun. Though it can be argued that it's so forgettable that they had to make the courier give you a letter from Jarl Siddgeir just to remind you it's there. Lakeview Manor is a great homestead though.
The fact they did oblivion cities made me smile with so much glee!! Love these boys
Definitely think a future episode with the village settlements (I.e. riverwood, ivarstead, dragons bridge) would be great.
Idk, precisely because of the creepy theme of Morthal, the depressing swamps, and player home I rate it pretty highly. The swamps are easily the land feature that stands out the most from the rest of skyrim. The swamp makes good for a lot of character builds/rp, pkus its very scenic. Now I will admit Besthesda could have done more with Morthal, or the rest of Skyrim for that matter. Like when I think swamps I think magical herbs (alchemy), fish (another fishery perhaps?), and well preserved bodies (necromancers). Plus not all of Morthal is swamp in game, they could've really fleshed it out.
It also feels the most reasonable to be so small imo. It feels like a barely surviving frontier town, no one would want to move there unless they’re outcasts or researchers like Falion. The others suffer far more for their lack of scale.
@@baronofbahlingen9662 Actually I think it would grow because of the researchers in particular. Where would a better place to go be for the magically inflicted? Maybe a new college? Perhaps more in line with alchemy?
Well, the carriage driver tells you it's a nice place if you like swamps, so there you go.
I would say Winterhold over Dawnstar. The color of the Northern Lights as well as the College are the main reasons, as well as the leg of the Thieves Guild quest that takes place there. Going into the inn in Winterhold just feels so much cozier than Dawnstar, too.
I'm team Drew between Winterhold and Dawnstar. I hate going to Dawnstar. The Jarl is a JERK, the questlines are good but I only do them as a means to an end on most playthroughs, and most of the NPCs are not memorable. Winterhold may be small and sad but I love the struggle there. It could be better but I would go there before Dawnstar. P.S Morthal would top both Winterhold and Dawnstar on my personal list. Who doesn't love a supernatural loner city in the Swamp lol. Thanks Fudgemuppet! You keep Skyrim love and debate alive.
After further consideration of Skyrim's best city, it is clear that Winterhold is the undisputed champion.
The Unreliable Narrator
Sure, if you wanna die of depression.
6:00 scott is right,, falkreath is falkreath because of the death n daedric princes plague that hold. Not because its boring. Ur in a civil war, skyrim was ravaged. U have lots of werewolves and vampires which in other games was a rarer sight.
Now dragons. Thalmer etc. Even the shops etc are named so because of the town, deathly concoctions the alchemist for example. Dengeir paranoid of a plot against him jumps straight into a vampire quest lol. Lod with clavicus vile n borbas, singeir in the barracks mauls a girl. The princes are the reason falkreath is f*cked lol.
Only sanguine quests seem to have a decent quest in terms of innocence and fun. Every other prince has u slaying their former champion, or sowing the seeds of evil.
The problem with the Mage guild quest is you literally just show up and like 5 quests later become Arch Mage instead of any growth.
Also theirs no benefit to being archmage at all. Using magical college of winter hold though the archmage quarters you get are alot better at least
There's a mages guild?
@@StoicDivinity Probably meant The College of Winterhold. Even tho the College has no connection to The Mages Guild in Cyrodill
I know right you take one class learn a basic deflect spell and boom your on a save the college quest line I whould love more prouper classes. I think it would have been better if it was a layerd quest line take a class,take a test go on a quest take a class take a test so on then once you mastered magic then save the school and become the arch mage
That's a problem with all the games factions besides the Thieves Guild unfortunately. The Companions, Mages, and Darkbrotherhood needs more soul in the systems/writing within the games factions. The Thieves Guild, I would've liked to have your rank actually recognized within the guild, but you still have to earn your way to Guildmaster. Instead of inheriting it like the Companions, or be given that position by an unrelated guild based out of Summerest in the CoW questline.
Raven Rock is probably my favorite city in Skyrim, I love the dunmer architectural aesthetic. I just wish I could move my in-game family to Severin Manor, that big house feels awfully lonely and makes me not want to spend time there for any reason other than to admire my museum pieces.
Markarth and Windhelm are tied for second. Vlindrel Hall is probably my favorite base-game player home, and the aesthetic of the city is great, but I find the Cidhna Mine and assorted daedra quests there to be exceptionally tedious. Blood on the Ice is less tedious to me, and as a Stormcloak main I like living close to High King Ulfric. I just wish that Lucien and Inigo would shut the hell up about how much they dislike it, makes me want to kick them both off the bridge whenever they start whining about how dreary the place is.
I hope everyone has a blessed day today; my house almost burned down this morning and, while I was able to put it out before any serious damage was done, I'm going to be spending the rest of the morning cleaning up the fire damage. Stay safe and don't smoke, kids.
Raven rock is not part of skyrim it's another country its technically a small island nation
Wishing you all the best, chin up stranger!
Raven Rock is Morrowind, not Skyrim. But I get your point, is in Skyrim game despite not being in Skyrim itself.
It's now part of Morrowind, you need to read some more lore in this game.
I agree Raven Rock is my personal favorite city, maybe nostalgia though; the house is great [btw a great module to add a similar house outside Whiterun that you can move your family into called fafnircomplete
I love the argument of "Dawnstar is just like Rorikstead in the snow" and Michael is just like, "Yeah but it has like boats and water and such" Just makes me rank Dawnstar as 2nd best of the bottom 4.
I've always loved Whiterun because of the blend of fantastical aesthetics with the mundane medieval type vibe. You have a decent size city with shops befitting the area like the drunken huntsman and the stalls where produce from the surrounding farms are sold, and you also have a grand palace that overlooks the city with large steps and water running throughout the city in little channels and waterfalls. It just all ads up to make a visibly appealing city that I feel is really befitting of the setting.
I love Chorrol, Hackdirt, Weyneon Priory, Chillrend quest all were cool, with a cool story about the count of the city
Just so you know, the Shrine of Azura is connected to Winterhold, Brelyna mentions that many dunmer flocked to the College of Winterhold eventually constructing what is easily the second best statue in the game (Dagon frowning down at you barely beats it)
The amount of quests, memorable experiences, way of life, feeling of hustling living city with an economy, Jorrvaskr, the architecture, the ability to see it across the map in its majestic beauty, and just my delight to be within the city walls, Whitrun is easily #1 in my book. It’s as much as Skyrim as the snow that falls on the throat of the world
Thanks to mods, Dawnstar, Morthal and Dragon Bridge are pretty damn cool in my game.
The teacher in me is stroking out over the lack of a defined rubric. However, I love listening to the bickering over the bottom tier.😂
The thing is about Winterhold, the college IS there. It doesn't matter if you're a mage or not, the building itself is still a part of the city. There are plenty of cities in real life with cool looking buildings you can't go into that people travel to go to see (Like the UK's Royal Palace).
I would rank Balmora above Sadrith Mora because of how much more fun it is to exist there. I mean, it’s really dense and the river is also iconic, especially with the silt strider sounds mixed in.
Skyrim Villages/Towns Ranked? Riverwood, Rorikstead, Ivarstead, etc... I think it'd be pretty cool. Obviously don't go as in-depth, just like the same criteria but dumbed down so it doesn't get too repetitive. But I think most towns have like unique environments and vibes. Also maybe include settlements from the Dragonborn DLC
Absolutely love seeing the friendly competition, trying to convince each other why you’re in the right. It’s hilarious and really shows the friendship between you all. I would argue that it makes us love this channel even more that there’s a difference of opinions. Keep up the great work guys. Favorite channel on TH-cam.
Azura’s quest has to count for Winterhold! You see her statue the entire time you’re there/at the college, and her quest actually takes you to the city. Also, the college is a major quest line. Winterhold > Dawnstar
You guys are my favorite. I literally re-watch all your guys videos constantly. not a single video i havent seen multiple times. I'm very thankful for you guys.
Riften's my 1st fav
1.) huge waterfront house you can buy
2.) guild quest+daedra quest combo
3.) fortified, (like windhelm or whiterun, and unlike dawnstar and morthal) ((altho Morthal is my 2nd fav))
4.) riften has 2 distinct social lives, which is fun (the market square atop, and the ratways below)
5.) the secret entrance to the thieves' guild gives a layer of spookiness and secrecy
6.) the jarl's quarters/palace in riften is distinct, like solitude's Blue Palace, or Markarth's Stone...something. (unlike, again, in morthal or dawnstar. they don't have their own symbol on the map. what a shame.)
7.) riften's location is very strategic. it's accessed like 3 different ways, if that (probably more), and thus has access to all sorts of natural resources around it.
8.) lore-wise, again, riften has a guild+daedra combo quest (nocturnal w/ the thieves), but also a history of the Blackbriar clan.
This list doesn't overpower any reasons for why the other cities are great too, this is just me gathering my thoughts. :)
I love that they decided to also rank oblivion cities
I could literally listen to these guys talking about anything for hours and I'd still not be bored :D
I would high key put Falkreath above all of the minor cities and windhelm. Falkreath, whiterun, solitude, Riften and markarth are the cities I actually want to go to. Every other city feels like going there is a chore that you do for a quest
Here is my list:
1. Solitude - capital of Skyrim, and has the most expensive house that every hight level character will buy, and there are some Vampire vibes in Jarl court,
2. Markath - the only capital hold that is located in dwemer ruins, and this is the place were you get rich by mining the gold as a low level character,
3. Riften - main hub for your "merchant" empire, which is the best faction in this game, because their side quests at least give you something in return,
4. Winterhold - earned this place beacuse I pay too much female Nords that supports Ulfric,
5. Whiterun - kinda focuses too much on the main plot, of the game which takes somewhat the full experience if you want to delay the dragon attacks,
6. Winterhold - two reasons they have the mages guild headquarters (every court mage have studied there, and so much more under the facade), and main enchanted weapons distributor in skyrim (every bloody enchanted weapon you find in bandit camps, or used by any npc found in skyrim, you even get them as a reward for your service in civil war)
7. Dawnstar - Dark Brotherhood, and nostatgia for Oblivion fans,
8. Mortal - Vampire quest,
9. Falkreath - it's pretty but to tell the truth its surrounding forest it's much more interesting the the town itself.
Bonus: Raven Rock is still going to be my main base of operations regarding the build, because it has the best player home, and merchants have a decent amount of money.
I found Winterhold to be the best decimated city in Skyrim. It was a lot larger and more opulent, with the white stone and dark oak. Till the fateful day when a few Magicusers went Megumin on it. "EXPLOSION!" Try to remember, prior to magic being feared, Mages guilds were built close to the centre of citys. Cheers great stream, loads of fun.
My top 3 would be Whiterun, Windhelm, and Solitude as 1, 2, and 3 respectively.
Whiterun is just iconic. Its yellow and white banner is unique, I like it. Plus, Nazeem is there.
I love the big stone walls and ancient cold capital of windhelm.
Solitude has a great feel, it reminds me of Kingdom Come Deliverance cities, great medieval vibes
As “one of the few” that actually played the games in the order they released, my take on the Oblivion towns mentioned is: Bruma, Bravil, Leyawiin from best to worst. The only reason I would put Bravil over Leyawiin is that Leyawiin is utterly forgettable. Even years later I can still picture walking into both Bruma and Bravil, but not Leyawiin.
It's always a pleasure to rewatch channels like ESO, Caedo Genesis, Fudge Muppet. I personally love Dawnstar and Solitude.
I almost always play as an Argonian so the swampy Morthal always feels like home ❤
Well you're a rarity! I've never played an argonian. 😂 If I'm going to pick a beast racr then I always choose khajiit. My favorite are brettons for the humans and I avoid playing elves but if I do then I choose wood elves.
No matter how many times i play skyrim whiterun will always have a special place in my heart.
We all know the best city is Froki's Shack.
Nothing like OD’ing on skooma in Froki’s shack.
Or snorting moonsuger till I chim@@edwardholt6098
Winterhold and Dawnstar each have a guild HQ and quests, within the town, associated with its guild. Otherwise,, Winterhold has an angry jarl with a side quest or two, a shopkeep with a dragon claw, and a scripted event with said shopkeep on arrival. Dawnstar has an angry jarl with/at the focus of a quest or two, civil war involvement, two mines within the town itself, one of which is a quicksilver mine, two scripted events (one on arrival, one upon reaching a certain level) off the top of my head, two daedric prince quests (one of which gains you a free follower with some actual personality), multiple merchants, a fully-outfitted smithy (with smelters, courtesy the mines), an alchemy workshop, and a ship offering fast travel to other towns with harbors. TBH, I've sometimes said that Dawnstar is close to the bottom of the list of hold capitals only because I forget that Winterhold (outside of the college) exists.
As a filthy Empire apologist, Solitude is my favourite city. But for real, I love it's atmosphere, it's location and the fact it's the Legions hub.
Death to the false emperor!
The empire sucks.
I play on survival mode and I find that I enjoy Windhelm the most because I love the contrast of adventuring outside the city where everything is so freezing cold and then rushing back into the city to warm up. It feels so cozy and warm inside the inn compared to the frigid wastes outside.
You guys have a good ranking system based on the value-added to the game.
I think I agree with Drew that Winterhold ranks higher than Dawnstar. While its execution could have been so much better, it is innately more interesting. Outwardly, it’s stoic, but inwardly, it’s dramatic. Even against crumbling cliff-sides, the city and college hold on, surviving. Better than any other single place or quest, Winterhold embodies the relationship between magic and Skyrim. The college slightly resembles a lighthouse on a frozen, rocky shore, a beacon of thought and enlightenment, threatened to be snuffed out forever by the passage of time. Winterhold is a place that makes you wonder about its past and theorize about its future. Dawnstar lacks the same compelling poetry in my opinion.
Honestly, I really want an ESO chapter that focuses on Winterhold, so that this city gets the developer resources it deserves, not the half-baked “We ran out of time” version apparent in Skyrim. Also, seeing this former capital of Skyrim before the collapse would be fascinating!
Winter hold is unironically my favourite hold capital. A lone speck of light holding alone against the encroaching frigid tides of the sea of ghosts. The howling blizzards eroding away all but the core of a man. The sole refuge in The Frozen Hearth where the ale warms more than the flickering fire. Maybe it’s growing up in small town Canada but that is infinitely more appealing to me than Riften or Markarth.
Falkreath, of all the minor hold capitals, has all the amenities that you might find in a major city, other than a smelter (though Riften and Solitude don’t have smelters either).
I'm pretty sure riften has a smelter? Solitude doesn't tho
@@th3thatguy631 Riften doesn’t have a smelter unless you use a mod, so I specially installed a mod that gives smelters to Riften and Solitude along with giving smelters and more smithing equipment to Falkreath, Dawnstar, and other minor cities lacking a full set of smithing stations because in Skyrim I’m a crafting nut, with all my otherwise diverse characters getting to 100 in smithing and enchantment, and often alchemy as well, depending.
@@EyeOfMagnus4E201 yeah I just looked you're right. I mainly play modded so I thought otherwise
Sorry Scott there's no way I'd rather be in Morthal or Dawnstar for any extended period of time more than the College. Those places are so unmemorable.
Windhelm is the best. The market is great. Enchanting table, forge, smelter and tons of merchants all next to each other without multiple loading screens.
My problem with Solitude is that it feels only barely more alive than Winterhold. It’s a huge city, but there’s only like six people walking around. Otherwise it’s only the merchants standing at their stalls.
It’s just boring to walk around because on the day to day there’s nothing going on. Even Markarth feels like there’s more
Winterhold at least has it's magephobic jarl that is a bit unique, I don't even remember the dawnstar jarl
Winterhold is the worst “city” of them all. You walk in and the first thing is a woman pleading her alcoholic husband to help, they haven’t rebuilt in 100+ years, no home to buy, and a busted college. Worst place.
100% agree with Drew that I remember Winter Hold a whole hell of a lot more than Dawnstar and Falkreath.
Dawnstar picture looks a lot like the model of Birka as it is believed to have looked back in the viking age.
My first pick is Whiterun based mostly on the feeling I get when Im there and a lot of nostalgia from my first play through.
Also: "Whiterun offers numerous diversions for the man in search of adventure, fortune and companionship, whether for a night or for a lifetime. The city is graced with not one, but two worthy taverns and there are maids and wenches aplenty."
-A Gentleman's Guide to Whiterun by Mikael the bard.
The college of winterhold is the only thing that makes winterhold a city. But if you’re not a mage, you won’t go to the college, or winterhold. There’s no reason to be in winterhold at all except for the college. Dawnstar has two mines, a ship, the museum, the whole nightmare vibe, there’s just no way winterhold competes
Great video as always guys! If I can make a request... any chance you could do a video on Aetherius sometime? I feel like I kinda understand the planes of Oblivion (well, as much as a mortal can!) but what do we know about the different realms and residents in Aetherius and how the various afterlives tie together? What makes Sovengarde, for example, a realm of Aetherius and not Oblivion? Would love to hear your commentary.
Keep up the great work, love you guys!
"Whiterun... the pride of Skyrim. Doesn't look like much to me. Now Blacklight on the other hand, that's a proper city."
-Teldryn Sero, Sassmaster Mercenary for hire, 4thEra: 201
Riverwood is my personal favorite. The location is so nice on the foot of a mountain and even though it's small, the town is super comfy and chill. Of course the memories also hits when u start the gameplay :)
The thing about Riverwood is that it has almost all the shops that a major city would. It has an inn that doubles as an alchemy shop, a blacksmith, and a general store. It would be nice to have a house there, though the Lakeview Manor is pretty close.
So Falkreath would be your favorite from the list of 9? Besides the walls, Falkreath feels almost exactly like Riverwood.
I think bethesda perfectly nailed the feeling for witerhold, he said the city is dead there is nothing there. That's the point you get to see what it's like for a city to fall, to fail, and to be forgotten to history. You start to question why this still living ruin of a city is the capital of a wealthy hold(lore says it once was the seat of power in skyrim). You also question it's future, will the college just consume the rest and make it a haven for mages that didn't get into the college proper. The only complaint I have for the design of winterhold is that it didn't look like it once was a powerful city, it is just a few farm houses and the generic ruined farm houses.
I always enter Riften through the back of the meadery to avoid the shakedown.
Why oh why would I feel the chill in winterhold ? I can never resist shouting at a guard for not finding my sweet roll . I've just mastered conjuration at want to show everyone my power.
'And thus FudgeMuppet was never the same after the great Winterhold debate'
Best: Markarth
Riften
Solitude
Whiterun
Falkreath
Windhelm
Dawnstar
Winterhold
Worst: Morthal
By Skyrim zoning law to qualify for being a city there must be.. on or about a handful of dwellings, a tavern and atleast 1 hobo..
Falkreath is for sure my favorite, Markarth is a close second but Falkreath's forest and cemetery and all the darkness associated with it is totally my vibe
whiterun feels like home, i would live there in real life it truly goes beyond the game, its like a feeling of being somewhere you enjoy. A beacon of opportunity.
Winterhold was my base of operations for 60 hours of my current pure illusion mage build. That is spending time working on magic skills, doing mage quests, side quests and generally exploring.
I spent lot of time in that town and loved it.
I remember when I first played Skyrim about 9 years ago I was trying to star the mission to get the ring of Hircine, as I thought that it was the only way to become a werewolf at the time (Obviously looking back I was wrong) I spent the majority of two days literally going around on circles through Riverwoood looking for the jail to find Sinding only to realize later that it was in a completely different city.
My argument for Dawnstar above Winterhold is simply that even the people of Winterhold seem to wish they could leave.
There are rooms in Skyrim bigger than Winterhold
I believe the Volkihar Castle is bigger than Winterhold and the College combined.
My list of 1 being best and 9 being worst is this.
1: Whiterun
2: Morthal
3: Dawnstar
4: Windhelm
5: Winterhold
6: Solitude
7: Falkreath
8: Riften
9: Markarth
If we included other towns/cities then the Skaal Village on Solsthiem would be second best.
Morthal is my favorite minor city. It's creepy, swampy, interesting NPCs, and feels like a place a criminal could live to escape their past.
Thank you for a really fun day after my birthday episode! 😊 It's quite entertaining to watch you guys hash stuff out! ❤️💜💙
Honestly Winterhold slaps. Voted Skyrim’s best college town 2011
Initial thoughts before I start the video:
(ranking best to worst)
- Solitude
- Whiterun
- Riften
- Markarth
- Windhelm
- Winterhold
- Falkreath
- Dawnstar
- Morthal
Having seen the final list, yes, I can see a strong argument for Fudgemuppet ranking Markarth at the top. I have slightly fonder associations and memories with some of the other cities, but there's certainly a lot to delve into and explore in Markarth. The top 4 cities are very close for me, all standing out in my mind for different reasons.
I was surprised Falkreath made it so high on the Fudgemuppet list. Apart from the Hircine quest and its proximity to the Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, Falkreath always made a relatively weak impression on me.
And I side with Drew when it comes to Winterhold. It's a valid criticism that, apart from the College and the inn where you get Azura's Star, there's nothing there. But the college is significant, and the whole place has an atmosphere all its own that makes it stand out (in my mind, at least) a bit more than Dawnstar or Falkreath.
Dawnstar is not a bad or boring City Town 😆
Winterhold >>> all small cities. The desolation and the college give me some kind of artic melancholy vibe that really got me. I'm particularly biased too, 70% of my characters use some sort of magic. I greatly enjoy wandering around what is left of the city. I find extremely pleasant attempting to dive from the college bridge to the frigid waters, avoiding the potential death treat too 🤪
Old guy here (28yr old), I mostly agree with your oblivion cities list but I do have a soft spot for Chorrol, I just love that quaint little "town" in the forest
WE'RE NOT OLD 😭
i'd love to see this with the cities from oblivion, there would be so much lore there!
Check towards the end they do it!!
@@andrewgrahamlloyd6253 thats great! I didn't see it to the end yet 👍🏻
Oh I have been to all of the jails actually. When doing the Master Criminal achievement. Rather than paying the fines or going back to an earlier save I decided to serve my time. One week in every jail. Only in Riften did they recognize me as a wanted criminal and arrest me in all the other holds I had to do some more crimes to get them to actually arrest me. (yes I did Solsteim to even that it's not included)
I went for the quickest crime, make sure to be seen by a guard, transfer into Vampire Lord and flee.
Solitude for me! Can't go wrong with that view from Proudspire Manor!
Loved dawnstar, the true feeling of being in a barren wasteland, the people are being haunted by an evil force, the arguments from both sides of the civil war make it actually feel connected to the events, and I get my favorite companion there.
It’s hard to remember Winterhold is even town let alone a capital. Dawnstar duh.
I think maybe riften should have gotten a little bit more consideration, bc I personally think it and the rift as a whole has even more detail to it than whiterun does. The theives guild is obviously a huge selling point as one of the more interesting and developed factions in the game, but its one point. The Black briars have a LOT going on, there are a bunch of interesting quests surrounding Sibbi, Ingun is one of the most dedicated (and creepy) alchemists in skyrim, and Maven is the only character in the game to own multiple properties outside her home city, including the honningbrew meadery in whiterun hold if you complete the theives guild questline. She also will become Jarl of the rift if the dragonborn sides with the empire, which will effect trade from cyrodiil into skyrim.
riften is pretty much the main hub for any followers of mara in skyrim, and the place where almost everyone in skyrim has their weddings. It's also where you start the book of love quest to play matchmaker all over skyrim. Plus one of the better love stories in the game between Keerava and Talen'je. Ant the whole scene in the bee and barb with maramal lecturing everyone.
you get one of the few unique horses in the game here, as well as mjoll, one of the most unique followers outside of factions.
there's lots of political intrigue with laila vs. Maven and the snowshod family, who attend as the groom's family at vittoria vici's wedding.
there's illegal skooma trade as well as pit-fighting wolves elsewhere in the hold
then there's haelga, she's alot to unpack.
and in the middle of all the seediness and sin and complications of the adult characters, there's a bunch of helpless orphans trying to survive their abusive hag of a caretaker long enough to be adopted.
Basically, every single character in riften has not only a unique personality, but a whole fleshed out backstory. You go into riften and talk to these characters and can remember every single one by name because they're all so unique and well developed.
My personal list with utterly no though put in it
Solitude
Whiterun
Windhelm
Riften
Markarth
Falkreath
Dawnstar
Morthal
Winterhold
I agree with Michael and Drew. Honestly the scenery and the lore of the environment is immaculate. I also like the lone towers idea of the college. Let's go Winterhold!
My pick for the two worst cities in Skyrim are Dawnstar and Morthal. Not only is there basically nothing in each one, you can sometimes even get attacked by animals (frostbite spiders in Morthal and wolves in Dawnstar) in both due to their lack of any walls. Seriously, I remember just getting out of the inn at Dawnstar and there being a wolf attacking sometimes. At least Winterhold has the college.
For sentimental reasons, my favorite city is Whiterun but arguably the only one that actually feels like a proper city is Solitude.
Oblivion's cities, by contrast to Skyrim, felt much larger with much more shops and landmarks. Skyrim's should have been on a closer scale to them.