To me, the 6v6 has better instrument separation and much cleaner highs. The EL84 may have better control on the bass but not sure if I actually love its sound. (hear how the vocal sound so much more distinct from the instruments on the 6v6: 5:19) To my ears, it sounds mushier. If you pair the 6v6 with a good active sub I am sure it will beat the EL84 any day. Are you sure you are not negatively influenced by the fact that the transformers are small? like, expectation bias? By the way, that's from someone who uses EL34 in his amplifier rather than KT88, which means I usually prefer a softer sound.
Ive been building tube amps since the late 80's when Glass Audio and Audio Amateur magazines were introduced to me by my service manager a Kiwi Ian McLeod a fellow tubeophile. I was a 21 year old Tech ,Muso,thrill seeker and building tube amps really did it for me and still does. It's just so nice to see people like you showing others the joys of Building Tube gear. It's just magic when the tubes all start glowing and the speakers start making lovely music. I think you might be able to demonstrate the actual sonic differences between EL84 vs 6V6 by using the same output transformers as the EL84 amp you have there by making 9pin to 8 pin socket adapters which is what I did years ago to hear for myself. A few mods to cathode resistance and bingo job done. Those little OPT on the 6v6 amp are just too little for a fair comparison IMHO. Rock on
Interesting suggestion! And you're right about those small OPTs, and that's why I sold that amp. I'm with you on the thrill of seeing those tubes glow on, and I love that first listen to a new build or resto/mod. I've been working on an old Westinghouse console amp, and I redesigned the tone controls (or modified the HK A-300 design). I've been listening to it in stages, from getting it working, then replacing the filter caps and setting the power go from 2 to 6 wpc, and finally replacing the tone controls. Sweet!
I have only just started tube rolling. I have the Prima Luna evo 100 and a few months ago I changed the EL34's (Prima L.) for 6L6GC retros' and verry recently the 12AX7( P.L.)for 5751 General Electric . Both are verry nice, maybe try the 5751's, I'm not technical but I believe they are stronger(?) I was wondering if you or any of your subscribers could recommend replacements /upgrades for my 12AU7 (P.L.) rectifier valves? Also if I may ask? I was happy to buy quad matched 6L6's but I was not shore if I wasted my money paying for matched pair 5751's. Equally I am not shore if getting paired 12AU7's valves is worth it ? when I get around to it.
Good to have them both playing - I couldn't make out any differences in a single run through and given the limitations of the setup. I tried to listen for differences in the bass but if there was any it was subtle. I'm not sure how well the Wharfedales and the room help or hinder this exercise to bring out differences...
The room acoustics aren't great, and the track has a lot of reverb on top of that. There are some adjustments possible with the knobs on the backs of the speakers, but I haven't even started playing with those yet.
I'm honestly surprised, but from what i can tell from my headphones, the 6v6 sound much better. The el84's sound a bit muffled or something. I thought hands down the el84 would win with those amazing output transformers, but not to my ears. Thanks for putting this video together for us all to enjoy in TH-cam land. 👍🏻👍🏻 Rock on! 🤙🏻
You're welcome! And your comment is interesting because both of those amps needed some modification. The cathode bias resistors on the 6V6's were the wrong value, and I replaced the cathode bias resistors on both of them with higher power, chassis mounted versions. When I did the EL84 amp, I found that one EL84 had failed, and both cathode resistors and both cathode bypass caps on that channel were all toasted.
Nice to see that I'm not the only person using an old Singer Treadle Sewing Machine as a rack for my Turntable. Very solid and isolates everything from the floor and walls. Don't like the way you've mounted the EL84 amp on the top of your Wharfedale speaker. Can't be doing anything for the sound quality; especially sitting so close to the Speaker Magnets. I keep my World Audio Design K5881 Mk 2 Power Amp well away from my QUAD ESL 57 speakers. Russ. UK.
No sound difference on the build in speakers of my laptop detected. That's the whole point of these sound demos, right, that people can hear the difference on low-fi....
There is some rif raf, but lyle lovett, hayden pedigo, and dawg yawp are places to start. Great channel, I love your way of doing stuff. @@Lancaster_Hi-Fi
I agree ,listening comparisons whether I'm listening on my sound system or my TV or even my laptop I am still hearing my speakers. It is the opinions of people who have much more experience than me I hope to hear.
To me, the 6v6 has better instrument separation and much cleaner highs. The EL84 may have better control on the bass but not sure if I actually love its sound. (hear how the vocal sound so much more distinct from the instruments on the 6v6: 5:19) To my ears, it sounds mushier. If you pair the 6v6 with a good active sub I am sure it will beat the EL84 any day. Are you sure you are not negatively influenced by the fact that the transformers are small? like, expectation bias? By the way, that's from someone who uses EL34 in his amplifier rather than KT88, which means I usually prefer a softer sound.
Sweet amps! Paired with a great speaker I'm sure the music would be delightful.
I can't wait until I find/build a pair of tube mono blocks.
Ive been building tube amps since the late 80's when Glass Audio and Audio Amateur magazines were introduced to me by my service manager a Kiwi Ian McLeod a fellow tubeophile. I was a 21 year old Tech ,Muso,thrill seeker and building tube amps really did it for me and still does. It's just so nice to see people like you showing others the joys of Building Tube gear. It's just magic when the tubes all start glowing and the speakers start making lovely music.
I think you might be able to demonstrate the actual sonic differences between EL84 vs 6V6 by using the same output transformers as the EL84 amp you have there by making 9pin to 8 pin socket adapters which is what I did years ago to hear for myself. A few mods to cathode resistance and bingo job done. Those little OPT on the 6v6 amp are just too little for a fair comparison IMHO. Rock on
Interesting suggestion! And you're right about those small OPTs, and that's why I sold that amp. I'm with you on the thrill of seeing those tubes glow on, and I love that first listen to a new build or resto/mod. I've been working on an old Westinghouse console amp, and I redesigned the tone controls (or modified the HK A-300 design). I've been listening to it in stages, from getting it working, then replacing the filter caps and setting the power go from 2 to 6 wpc, and finally replacing the tone controls. Sweet!
I have only just started tube rolling. I have the Prima Luna evo 100 and a few months ago I changed the EL34's (Prima L.) for 6L6GC retros' and verry recently the 12AX7( P.L.)for 5751 General Electric . Both are verry nice, maybe try the 5751's, I'm not technical but I believe they are stronger(?)
I was wondering if you or any of your subscribers could recommend replacements /upgrades for my 12AU7 (P.L.) rectifier valves?
Also if I may ask? I was happy to buy quad matched 6L6's but I was not shore if I wasted my money paying for matched pair 5751's. Equally I am not shore if getting paired 12AU7's valves is worth it ? when I get around to it.
Use Beaver Valley to drive woofers and the other for the midrange and tweeters. Only problem would be paying the electric bill
Though I might save on my gas heating bill!
Good to have them both playing - I couldn't make out any differences in a single run through and given the limitations of the setup. I tried to listen for differences in the bass but if there was any it was subtle. I'm not sure how well the Wharfedales and the room help or hinder this exercise to bring out differences...
The room acoustics aren't great, and the track has a lot of reverb on top of that. There are some adjustments possible with the knobs on the backs of the speakers, but I haven't even started playing with those yet.
I don't know which is which, but l like the one with the v6
🤣
I'm honestly surprised, but from what i can tell from my headphones, the 6v6 sound much better. The el84's sound a bit muffled or something. I thought hands down the el84 would win with those amazing output transformers, but not to my ears. Thanks for putting this video together for us all to enjoy in TH-cam land. 👍🏻👍🏻 Rock on! 🤙🏻
You're welcome! And your comment is interesting because both of those amps needed some modification. The cathode bias resistors on the 6V6's were the wrong value, and I replaced the cathode bias resistors on both of them with higher power, chassis mounted versions. When I did the EL84 amp, I found that one EL84 had failed, and both cathode resistors and both cathode bypass caps on that channel were all toasted.
Nice to see that I'm not the only person using an old Singer Treadle Sewing Machine as a rack for my Turntable. Very solid and isolates everything from the floor and walls. Don't like the way you've mounted the EL84 amp on the top of your Wharfedale speaker. Can't be doing anything for the sound quality; especially sitting so close to the Speaker Magnets. I keep my World Audio Design K5881 Mk 2 Power Amp well away from my QUAD ESL 57 speakers. Russ. UK.
That's not where it sits when in use.
No sound difference on the build in speakers of my laptop detected. That's the whole point of these sound demos, right, that people can hear the difference on low-fi....
Yes, you're exactly right
Do you listen to NPR Tiny Desk much? They are a gold mine.
I haven't. I'll check it out.
There is some rif raf, but lyle lovett, hayden pedigo, and dawg yawp are places to start. Great channel, I love your way of doing stuff. @@Lancaster_Hi-Fi
Thanks!
No point posting comparisons youtube colours any audio due to compression
IMHO, "no point" does not follow from "compression."
I agree ,listening comparisons whether I'm listening on my sound system or my TV or even my laptop I am still hearing my speakers. It is the opinions of people who have much more experience than me I hope to hear.
TH-cam aside, perhaps it was the speakers or the pre-amp that contributed to the limitation of hearing any discernable difference?
Definitely possible. It's not a great preamp, and the speakers need work, as does the room.