he did do a collab with another streamer that literally said 'women arent people, they are just meat' WITHIN THE WEEK prior to him choosing to do the collab... The streamer also said palestinian people arent people and that they 'should just get to dying already'. ☕ If you want an actual criminal level amount of "drama" 🫡 I hate it here, never meet your idols or look up to male streamers apparently LOL
It's just his way of talking, to me, it's just Thor's talking that's it xD They don't know him enough to "understand" him I guess ? Dunno. Have a great day/night !
@@slyngin3884that may be his way of talking, I’m blunt too. The problem is taking no responsibility in the faces of your teammates that died and lost everything around you, regardless of if it’s entirely your fault of not. It’s a small gesture to take responsibility not for the result, but, instead, take responsibility for your actions. Not once did he do that, all he said is “they”. Playing the blame game while protecting his image. I can be blunt and have a heart. This man has none
Dude, I've been saying this to all the people who have been linking me the drama. This is just another day in life playing Classic WoW/Hardcore WoW. It's such a different game in that it massively promotes social interactions without taking away from the experience.
you're the first person I've seen to really break everything down for people who literally don't know anything about WoW, and you do an exceptional job of walking the viewer through everything, step by step - even including details like why the ramp matters. thank you so much!! huge ups to you for taking the time to not just talk about the drama, but also all the components of the drama in a way that non-players like me have a seamless time following along
@@msblackrose999 oh yes, absolutely!! you're so right to point that out. other commentators were also just using Pirate's pov, which makes sense, but this really tells the whole story SO much better. way to go Toast :D
@@zephyr-o-saurus tldr tbh- short version: pirate played like shit, lied, was a hypocrite. Refused to admit it, people made fun of him. He threatened to report his guild streamers to twitch to get them banned and lose their jobs. No one cares about the actual gameplay, just that his true persona showed afterwards.
@@msblackrose999 no its so wrong bc he says "frost nova could freeze the big guy but mage is too far away" wich implie its pirite fault but he dont says that big guy is imune to cc so frost nova is inefective against big guy such a waste
I would like to add my own bit of info that I think adds some important context to the situation, as I have also been playing a bit of hardcore WoW. Mages are a class that are specifically invited to pretty much every party because of their ability to cast ranged spells that apply Area of Effect (AoE) slows, as well as other crowd control (CC) spells, which can be used to save their group members when situations like this happen. Additionally, they also have great survivability tools such a short range teleport to ensure they can escape too. This specific guild (as well as many others) tries to search for a mage in every single one of their parties to minimize the risk of someone dying. It's essentially the whole reason why a mage is "hired" for every group, because their "job" is to help save the group members since they have the best tools to do so and escape with minimal risk. So Pirate not doing his "job", despite having all these advantages on his class, is looked down upon. It gets even worse when you see the clip of him talking down on someone else in the guild for not doing their job as a mage, going as far as to say it makes him "physically ill", then explaining that he takes certain talents (which are like small boosts to your abilities) so he can save his groups. There's other clips where he says situations like these are actually some of the best moments he's had inside of dungeons, yet when it came time to back up what he was saying he didn't do anything. So some people take these clips as "proof" that Pirate actually knew what he was doing, and in fact was intentionally letting them die because of ego disputes throughout their time together as a group - which obviously rubs people the wrong way (especially because he was mainly in conflict with the rogue Yamato, and punished 2 other people for it). Others say it was just a mistake and he panicked in the moment - but this also rubs people the wrong way because he's talked himself up as having a lot of experience as well as insulting other people for their mistakes, yet didn't back up any of his talk when push came to shove. This info is to help you understand the situation a little better, as well as get a better grasp on why it's become so massive. It's not just about the mistake in the dungeon, it's about the way he has acted before and after the dungeon that has made this situation explode into something so massive. Pretty much it's an accumulation of his actions and behaviour, and this dungeon was just the spark that set it all off. In my opinion it was way overblown, but there was also the very simple solution of Pirate saying "Yeah, I messed up there. I could've done more. My bad" and everyone moves on. Instead he double, tripled and quadrupled down over the course of multiple days - which just further spurned the hate mob on to call for blood.
@@vGody But he didnt messed up tho, you probably are pretty casual or just a regular hater. 90% of the fault was the warrior doin that stupidass 3 group+boss pull. Ive played Hardcore a lot and that was a 500% run and reset pull, it was obvious. Thor could've played better, maybe, was that goin to save that stupid ass pull???, of course not. In fact, the rogue called for heals AFTER the call for run and that killed the priest. But yeah, that guy Yamato is literally the definition of a WoW incel. Screaming and pointing fingers, Thor actually managed that pretty well, pretty much anyone else woulda told that stupid ass 30yo that is behaving like a kid to calm the fuck down. But yeah. WoW incels.
@@partingofways Why do I feel like I've seen toast in a video saying "What's the tea" or "What's the tea sis" while hunching over in like a gremlin stance and rubbing his hands together like he's about to partake in a pirates lost treasure. It's very much on brand
For all the non wow players here. A breakdown below of all the crap plays by all involved. Tank: didnt kite the mobs back as they ran. Stayed and tanked for way longer then needed. Pulled without looking at party resources. Didnt have the group kill patrolling mobs prior to this pull. Didnt use the pillar to line of sight the mobs. Rogue: horrible coms needs to stfu and play his class. Not one crowd control was used when he has several available as well as many defensive abilites to keep him safe while using said close range crowd controls. Ran immediately without checking his team until way after. Priest: let the crap dps die if they pull stupid shit. Good healers are the most valuable roles in the game. I didnt see an aoe fear from him, but could have happened maybe would have helped. Druid: he pulled the patrol mobs, tried to salavge the mistake near the end and died for trying. Mage: basically everything wrong was done. No rank 1 blizzard, cone of cold, ice nova. No mana gem used. He is spamming high cost abilities like blink and ice barrier for no reason, burning what ever mana he did have. All of which would have allowed for any number of above mentioned spells. There is zero scenario he dies. Even if he blinks in to ice nova, he still has ice block available (immune to damage ability). And anyone whos played the game as long as he claims knows these basic things. Doesnt help there is numerous clips of him talking about this exact thing prior to this event. Bad look. This isnt serious like everyone is making it to be. Egos all around, garbage gameplay. Cheers
What I also thought. Everyone pinning mistakes to a single person when everyone's at fault. When the rogue calls out to run, immediately I thought that there's at least 1 of them that will die. At that point they would've gotten out with just a single casualty if they left the tank. Imo the biggest mistake was the shotcaller. Very bad at analyzing the situation and confused at decision making. Then he blames the mage for running and not using spells when he himself didn't even used a single cc.
Someone mentioned this was their second attempt at this, and the mage and the rogue were already not getting along. Don't know how true it is, not really gonna invest a lot of emotion into it, but the mage dipping as quick as he did and the rogue trying to pin as much blame on him as he can makes more sense if it was true. None of it justifies any of it though.
He mentioned banning people who sends death threats and such. (more than) A couple of his viewers come out saying they got banned for the same thing, mild criticism or even any mention of mana gem and/or robe = banned. And then it came out that hes been banning anyone who criticize him prior to this.
@@insanedar, and it's totally reasonable to not interact with him and kick him out of the guild for refusing to apologize for not helping anybody in that dungeon. They're not mad he left the dungeon, they're mad he doesn't have empathy for making 2 people lose 2 weeks of their lives and refusing to just say, "I'm sorry, my bad." That's all he needed to do, yet he acts like a child with a holier than thou attitude. Getting death threats is terrible, but that doesn't excuse people from criticizing shitty human behavior and then gaslighting people about it and shifting the blame from themselves to others and not taking any accountability for their actions. They ALL made mistakes, and they all took accountability for it apologized to the people that died. except for Pirate software, who kept referring to that "THEY" should do better, not "WE."
Well considering he did the same thing in ashes of creation and has been acting like a hot shot mega mage player in WoW it shouldn't surprise anybody that this went the way it did. Like the others have blame, but Pirate has the most of it and still acted that way. People are finally getting to see the man behind the marketing facade (same with how he handled the initiative. My guy can't stop from acting like an absolute narcisistic, I-know-all douchebag)
@@GravitasZero For me it was shown with how he handled the 'Stop Killing Games' movement in the EU. He talked and gave examples as though it was happening in the USA, without giving any thought that it was happening with different systems and mechanisms in the EU, while also cutting off any chance of debating things with the creator and main motivator behind that movement.
@@leadpaintchips9461 I got where he was coming from because I understand, to get a concessions you have to give concessions. So if your goal is too vague or broad, expect to be ignored or it go nowhere. Which is what he meant when he disagreed with the way they were handling it.
@ The whole process in the EU is the initial proposal is _supposed_ to be unrefined, so that they can call in experts to refine it. It also had things that he blatantly got wrong and didn't want to hear anything about him getting wrong, like the retroactive nature of the proposal (PirateSoftware was claiming it was going to screw every game that has been released when rulings like this are specifically _not_ retroactive). It's fundamentally a different system then what the US has. PirateSoftware didn't want to talk about this. He said that he will never talk to the founder of that petition. When people called him out on his ignorance of the EU process, he deleted other people's posts and blocked them while claiming harassment. Basically the same exact MO of this drama.
@@leadpaintchips9461 Hello. I'm from Europe and have studied political science, philosophy, and how rhetoric is used in the news and online - think a "guy who knows politics and finds understanding propaganda a fun hobby." Safe to say, I know I am qualified when I say this: the SKG initiative may have come from good intentions, but it should've been ignored the moment the guy said "It is an easy win for politicians." This line of thinking should only ever be thought of when a law is drafted and finalized and when to get the final votes to get the most ideal version of a law through, necessary political compromises are discussed. This is the ONLY time when this line of thinking has any place anywhere in the world. Everything that is an easy win for politicians is either a given or overly simplified when the topic is far more complicated. Digitalized archiving is one such topic when it comes to games, and literally, every single point that Thor brought up was correct. There is an ongoing debate amongst archivists on how games are supposed to be archived. It doesn't matter that it is just an initiative. When it is rooted in what is best misconceptions and at worst, ignorance or an active disregardment towards game development then the best thing ya' have is to stop and start over again. Because the initiative _is_ grounded in something which is categorically a mistake at best. Sure, he ain't from Europe and got things wrong. That's to be expected. The main points he brought up are demonstrably true though, and it matches with how political rhetoric, discussions, lawmaking, and more work in the EU. SKG is just a really bad movement built from a really bad idea that isn't grounded in reality. It is grounded in misconceptions, misunderstandings, and ignorance of how politics and game development respectively work.
tyler said it best. it had all the ingredients for big drama. Big hot shot mage who looks down on everyone. Runs away at the first sign of danger. Doubles down on his decision to run away in fear
Toast summed it up well at one point. PirateSoftware's actions aren't that big of a deal. His words are the issue. He messed up, made some mistakes. Just had to own it and apologize. I still think he's overall a good guy. He does a lot with charity, helps a lot of people with game development/hacking/etc, and does a lot of good in general. But I think he has a huge ego and talks a big game that he can't always back up. Everyone knows that type of person. Doesn't mean they're an awful human being, it's just a character flaw. We all have one character flaw or another.
@zomfgroflmao1337 just like YAMATO did, mate, it's in he vods both them said the same thing, they both took we made mistakes, but somehow it's Pirate that needs to say ME
@@luchito1337 everyone knew yamato was dog at the game, the reason why people pile on pirate is because he puts himself as the jesus of mages, constantly criticising other mages for playing badly in exact scenarios like these, while he roaches out immediately and plays like an absolute dog.
@@luchito1337 LoL yeah shit is wild Yamato got off scott free. Yamato wasn't paying attention, panic called over the others multiple times and just watch his dps being the lower than even Pirates for half the way back and spikes from doing 6 hits he's literally being a camera man lol. Never as a rogue for a whole expansion or 2 after OG would I not try evasion tank to give others a chance or use the countless CC available. Even the debrief that starts just trying to wrap their head around what else 3 of them could have done to be talked over again by Yamato completely shutting down any chance of discussion. Its the disrespect to the healer who tried to save the group that is so insulting... no omg Sara thank you so much so sorry if you need any help levelling if your going again let us know.
A good take. Few things: By his own words he is a mythic+ player in retail and has played a fair bit of classic, he was in the list of sweats in the guild. The dire maul run just before that one was also pretty fucked for reasons outside of his control, mainly aggro related where he was forced to iceblock to avoid dying, so probably already not feeling too great about that group of players. Most if not all of the hate was just LSF users as opposed to people from specific twitch channels, one person for example made a bot that just made new accounts purely to type "mana" into his chat, which would then be instantly banned. As for the "run", that in a group setting is widely accepted to mean "get as many of us out as possible", turning heel and double blinking so far out of range that you couldn't help if you wanted to is very much against that idea. My personal opinion on the matter, the dude just needs to wind down his ego a bit, there's even now a clip resurfacing from a fair bit ago in I think ashes of creation where he pulls an enemy using a spell which moves forward and wipes a raid group, and then pretty much goes on a witchhunt trying to find whos fault it was, only to retarget the blame elsewhere when he saw it was his own spell that did it.
One thing I wanted to point out was that it was pirate who pulled in the previous run, it was not aggro related but him going too far up the ramp and pulling more mobs. The group could have played safer to be fair but it was on him for pulling and he shifted the blame.
Yeah if he let off his ego in the slightest, said sorry and didn't quadruple down no sane normal person would still be mad. He's also blowing the "hate" out of proportion, I'm not doubting he got shitty messages but no way there were thousands of death threats
@@WesterlyToast Tbh, I can believe it with how ruthless the internet can be and how much the drama reached. But man, you just need a little bit of humility and a little bit of patience until it blows all over. I really think he is very insistent that he is in the right and that really fanned the flames even more.
@@rontenchavez4605 Its hard to believe them on that because his 'I got 10.000 hate messages' was a huge gaslight. He lumped up a bunch of people that were banned on his chat for things like 'mana gem' 'mana emote' or even 'what is happening?' as hate watchers. Moreover he also lumped up any content creator criticizing or memeing on him as 'sending me hate raids'. No content creator did that, there has not a single clip of that, Pirate just attempted to gaslight everyone to make himself a victim.
Regardless of PirateSoftware here, the rogue had so many options to help out but chose to just hang around doing nothing. From what I can see of his bars he had gouge, sprint, evasion and vanish off CD, and didn't even try to help out the tank or druid when they were in trouble on the ramp. Assuming he already used blind he could still gouge one enemy to stun it, vanish into cheap shot to stun another, then build up combo points for a quick kidney shot stun on another to give the tank/healer some time to run, and then he still would've had evasion + sprint to get out of trouble himself. But no, just do nothing at all until everyone else starts trying too, and even then only hits one guy like 2-3 times before sprinting out of there. He did basically the same thing as PirateSoftware, the only difference is he didn't need to be physically close to the exit to save himself because he's a rogue with every single way possible to survive. Btw I am a warrior, so I obviously have bias against rogues, especially ones that do this shit.
The rogue was new. Pirate is not. He always brags about his "20 years of wow experience". Yet only one of them apologized for fcking up while the other quadrupled down on not owning his mistakes.
@@gamma00crucis His experience told him that the group was too weak to risk his char over it. They had just almost wipe in a previous run and showed how disorganized they were. This is typical of people who get carried by knowledgeable players and so they never learned the basic security rules like back pulling, waiting for food/drinks and so on. If they learned those rules and disregarded them, feeling overconfident because they have "carries" in their group, it's not the carry's fault if you make his job harder. I'd try my best to help you, until you try blame shifting stuff on me, from which point you're on your own. Pirate's knowledge of the game is what made him not do the misplay many were "demanding" him to make. You cannot frost nova the boss, the only real threat in that retreat. The priest spent too much time hard casting spells when he should've use shield+renew and follow the run call like he initially did, the only person that might have died in that case would've been the war or druid, much more replaceable than a priest and the main culprit as to why things went south so quickly. The only person deserving of a gkick there was the rogue as his toxic behavior in a crisis showed that he's in there for the glory and clout, not the feats and skills. But absent GL kicking the wrong person because of clique behavior is the quintessential -high school- wow guild experience.
@@JimmyR42 Nah, it's a pattern of behaviour with pirate. He did that twice in the same day (HE buttpulled the first near-wipe earlier and then roached out), and then before that he did the same thing in AoC where he fcked up (in AoC it was so much worse because he wiped the whole raid and said "I'm kicking whoever did that, unacceptable" and then when he saw the clip that confirmed it was him he switched up IMMEDIATELY and started blaming the tanks). After all his big talk about what to do in a tight situation in a dungeon, his bragging about his "20 years of experience" and roasting other mages when they misplay, this is how he handles a bit of heat? He runs away with his keys unbound? Yeah, he was going to get cooked for this regardless lol. You can't talk yourself up and then expect people not to mock you when your real skill level is revealed in such a hilarious way. Then he kept insisting for like 3 days that he made no mistake and couldn't have helped. Just straight wrong lol. He screwed himself by doing that because every single ACTUAL wow vet agrees he roached and that he absolutely had options to help his group. Also I don't think you play wow because what fcked his group was not the boss. *The boss was on the tank the whole time*. *The ADDS were the problem, they killed the 2 who died, and he absolutely 1000000000% could've nova'd them and saved those 2*. Shit, days before he was absolutely COOKING moonmoon for doing that exact same thing. Totally ripped into the guy for not saving his group. This is hilarious karma. If anything the weakest link on the team WAS pirate because he was unwilling to do any reasonable thing to help his group. Everyone else was on the same page except for pirate, and that is the real problem. If they all roached like he did, no problem. But if they did, the tank and for sure the druid die. So they tried to recover. All except him, that is, who was dutifully following calls until the call was to come back and help lmao. And finally the real reason pirate got gkicked is because he went on to claim all of onlyfangs was built on hate/they're monsters, and also he was actively trying to get people banned for covering the topic. Not even just critiquing him, but for covering it at all. So Soda had to kick him.
@@JimmyR42 It's a pattern of behaviour with pirate. He did that twice in the same day (HE buttpulled the first near-wipe earlier and then roached out), and then before that he did the same thing in AoC where he screwed up (in AoC it was so much worse because he wiped the whole raid and said "I'm kicking whoever did that, unacceptable" and then when he saw the clip that confirmed it was him he switched up IMMEDIATELY and started blaming the tanks). After all his big talk about what to do in a tight situation in a dungeon, his bragging about his "20 years of experience" and roasting other mages when they misplay, this is how he handles a bit of heat? Yeah, he was going to get cooked for this regardless lol. You can't talk yourself up and then expect people not to mock you when your real skill level is revealed in such a hilarious way. Then he kept insisting for like 3 days that he made no mistake and couldn't have helped. Complete lie. He screwed himself by doing that because every single ACTUAL wow vet agrees he roached and that he absolutely had options to help his group. Also I don't think you play wow because what killed his group was not the boss. *The boss was on the tank the whole time. The ADDS were the problem, they killed the 2 who died, and he absolutely 1000000000% could've nova'd them and saved those 2*. If anything the weakest link on the team WAS pirate because he was unwilling to do any reasonable thing to help his group. Everyone else was on the same page except for pirate, and that is the real problem. If they all roached like he did, fine. But if they did, the tank and for sure the druid die. So they tried to recover. All except him, that is, who was dutifully following calls until the call was to come back and help. And finally the real reason pirate got gkicked is because he went on to claim all of onlyfangs was built on hate/they're monsters, and also he was actively trying to get people banned for covering the topic. Not even just critiquing him, but for covering it at all. So Soda had to kick him.
@@nyoooalsono9469 yk the craziest thing is that he was already at the exit. he was completely 100% safe and snupy died within casting range of where he was at the exit. forget the healer at that point, if he stayed even 1 second longer and cast 1 single frost nova to get the mob off him, at least 4 of them probably make it out. the tank had boss aggro literally the whole run back. it was so safe for him but he just left lol
I think he would have been ok if he said. "Look. I could have gained mana. But, at the time I didn't realize and I missed it. That is a mistake on my part. My bad." But he progressively made things worse with how he handled it.
In fairness, if you're being attacked by literally hundreds of people, I can imagine it's really easy to get down in the weeds and turtle up instead of thinking logically
Also, being called out isn't easy. Hard to back down from that kind of thing and just take it. This was also touched on by toast. Doesn't make it right, but people are acting like he committed mass genocide or something with recent events, or like they wouldn't have done the exact same thing.
@@vincentro6871 i somewhat agree but this has happened a few times with pirate now (aoc moment) and it comes with the territory of being a streamer. if you can't handle the heat get out of the profession that puts you in the fire. he's really bad at taking accountability in general. this goes all the way back to his eve online days.
@@rtInHeaven This is why I don't play hardcore or with other players if I can help it 😂 I also think it's a bit played up that somehow he took no responsibility? When he said everyone except the healer played imperfect, and admitted mismanagement of resources. People often forget the human error aspect and panic makes you even more prone to error, he turned back to help but as he did they rounded the corner coming right at him. I would have bailed to at that moment, every other caster kicked the bucket I wouldn't have risked it 😂 I also don't think it's fair for the rouge to ask him to risk his character after 1 went down when the rouge will never be in that position and is likely to make it out. It's weird cuz they all admitted they are all wrong, but because they can latch onto him 🪳ING out they did, and probably to hard honestly.
in that situation, all mobs could only attack from close range. They were also stunable except the bigger guy, the boss. Mage is king in the situation. But do not focus on that, its misguiding the real issue here. There was no misplay/mistakes here by Pirate, he was conscious of his actions. Pirate had bad intentions here, he didnt simply misplay. They were also in a guild group, it was not a bunch of randoms. It was also HC, so if you die, you die and lose 150 hours. You can see the smirk if his face while he was running away after deciding they were not worth his effort. You can see he loved the godlike feeling of having that power in his hands
nah they would have lived if the dumbass druid didnt pull the third pack mid fight, even if pirate ran away they had it in the bad but the druid jumping like a moron backwards aggro a third pack of mobs and got the healer killed which caused him to die too, thats literally out of pirates control and the original 2 packs were still salvagable without pirate
@@jocampe62 my man if it was him being a douche everyone on mythic is guilty of that, nearly every wow streamer is an ego driven manbaby that makes a tantrum every month about something, was that the issue? how many times you had people dying already and one dude blaming others and throwing a fit? so was the issue him not apologizing?
If "run out" in hardcore meant every man for himself, then nobody would have incentive to play tank/heals as they would always be the main targets on aggro and be permadazed on escape attempts and be the only ones at risk to lose their character. I played DPS throughout WotLK then took on other roles in later expacs on and off and have played every spec through the leveling process to near max level at least once. Every spec has a toolkit that is unique and helps to contribute to survivability in a distinct way. If you choose to ignore this kit, don't be surprised when people ignore you when it comes to assembling a group, because you aren't bringing anything but liability and entitlement.
Every wow player I know who plays hard-core has agreed that when the shot caller says and I quote "RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!!!!!!" you gtfo. Most mage players I've spoke to have said they would have blinked once and Portaled out
yea, I've heard streamers say if run meant run with no regard for the group, instead of retreating with the group and helping each other when possible that there would be no run call where the tank survives, and that no one would ever want to play tank
@jshadow62 You don't gtfo with zero regards to any other teammate though. This is universally true even outside WoW. Essentially not a single team-based game does "RUN!" mean "Every man for himself, ignore everything and just focus on getting yourself out". "Run" essentially means retreat, get yourself to safety, but to the best of your ability help your teammates do the same.
@Whitedudeabove in hxc it absolutely does. It means everyone use all your resources to get out. Fall back would be a better call. In the mmos I've played as well as other rpg games with hard-core modes, that's what it means. Not just to me, but to literally everyone I've played with. I'm hearing a lot of soft core players saying the same thing. It wasn't just the run call. He literally yelled "RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN" yeah, that means gtfo. Had they all kept running, no one would have died. Maybe the tank dies but that's what happens when you're a tank and make shit pulls. You shouldn't expect everyone to stick around and try to save you because you massively fucked up. I can't tell you how many dps I've let die because they didn't listen to my call outs and they thought they knew more than me. Fuck around and find out.
@justanobody0 plenty of tanks survive after a run call. In fact, most make it. However, had that tank not done shit pulls, none of this would have happened. It all starts with the tank and it all ends with the tank.
@@asiangamer88111 that's why i don't like both Yamato and pirate in this situation. Yamato coms is just utter dogshit. Pirate didn't even try and roached out. Both are just bad
@@luchito1337 hahaha at what point did he say "sorry I could've done more guys" Is it days after the dungeon on a random discord server Cause it's sure wasn't any time after the run or when someone died cause he immediately left the comms and said "I ain't dealing with this shit they pulled and now it's blame the mage, I was out of Mana nothing I could do" You guys just making up shit at this point
if its one thing i learned about MMOs is that NOBODY pays any attention to any paramaters but their parses, someone can die at full health and will still cry to the healer "where were the heals" after they stood in and got hit by an instakill mechanic
This is the dumbest drama event I've ever seen go viral. Onlyfangs are making wow players look bad for dog piling. This should never have been drama that pulled the internets attention.
As someone who doesn’t play WoW, how you explained this situations was in such a way that I was able to comprehend what was going on, and I loved that. Thank you for being a great communicator, Toast!✨
@@msblackrose999 understatement. He is an OG sweat in WOW. Knows most of the lore in that game once upon a time. He was a true loremaster who first got his stint in content creation by covering lore of Hearthstone cards. If he raided with onlyfangs, he would be labelled one of the "sweats" for sure and can probably level a 60 in HC with no problems at all.
just forgot he could reload it for some reason and then doubles down saying shooting was not possible, do you not see his empty chamber? What do you want him to do about it?
Not a great comparison you can do better, ammo is scarce in a zombie apocalypse. Running while trying to hit a target is not easy. Natural selection, survival of the fittest that simple really. In actuality it’s the tanks fault, as someone who’s played tank for over a decade and lost over 1000 hours it is your sole duty to protect your team and the tank here failed to protect his team he should’ve sacrificed himself to hold the line while his party members run
I know nothing about WoW so I can't work out if he could've acted better....however, I do know people and his arsey 'im done with this' attitude towards his teammates was where he messed up.
Exactly the point. I can tell you him saying he has no mana with 3 different ways to get instant mana and is lying here and wasting it to justify. He also can save them all with 1 button from a safe distance if he tried with low level frost spell blizzard. All of this super shady not the problem if he just apologizes ppl do this shit like this all the time in the guild, the problem is after refusing to take ANY blame for not trying to help his team when 2 ppl lost hundreds of hours by dying and having to restart.
Wow player here!: He absolutely had every tool available to help that group. He had enough mana to cast multiple crowd control abilities, but even if he didn’t have enough mana, he also had a mana gem and an ability on his robes that both give a ton of mana. From pirates POV, he even acknowledges he has those by bringing his mouse inches from those buttons. His “mana issues” were exacerbated when he used blink 3 times and ice barrier’d without a single enemy attacking him
Lucky you, you don't need to be good at out for this situation. It's been unanimous among ALL streamers that the problem of this situation was never the roaching it was just PIrate's attitude and subsequent threats
That one critical point that I've been missing all this time was the losing your character forever part because its hardcore mode. Like yikes, no wonder people reacted such a way.
All of the defences toast lays out for pirate ends with “yeah if he’s a new player then this makes sense” but pirates WHOLE THING is “my dad was a blizzard dev! I was a blizzard dev!! You’re wrong about how this niche thing works, I actually know, can I teach you about it cause I know it and you don’t??” Which makes it 10000X more infuriating.
The rogue called:"run run run" It his his fault. Then he stopped running and tried to fight and most of them died. If he kept running. One of them would probably have died. There is nothing the mage could have done to save them. The rogue himself also did nothing, The rogue was just running aswell. If those morons just kept running they would have survived.
My favorite part was how soft and how many chances and how much benefit of the doubt he gave Pirate, and then on multiple occasions during that very stream(moused over the mana gem, Pirate quadrupling down with the tweet) it was shown how Pirate deserved none of it.
Run in a HC guild run never means run out to the exit and stop trying to save people where its viable. This isn't classic where you respawn at the GY for a wipe, its hours and hours of character loss. It simply would not be viable for people to play like that normally in hc because there would never be a tank left, this isn't a zombie apocalypse where everyone is the same class, people in wow have distinct roles they have to fill. You have to commit to a certain degree of taking risk, there is a line of course, you shouldn't just jump in a fire if there is absolutely no hope of recovery, but that wasn't it, wasn't even close to it.
I was reflecting on that and I think there's also bit of a terminology issue we have in WoW. When I saw this clip I knew this "run run run" was obviously retreating while kiting. The situation wasn't so dire that you needed to "abbandon ship and everyone for himself". I saw another clip in BRD where the tank called a single "run" and in this situation it was obvious to gtfo because you couldn't kite much there and you needed to get to a reset spot asap - throw dummies and instant casts but hold 'W'. Seasoned players know what to do in certain situtations and understand eachother even when the message isn't specific. But never players and non-WoW viewers take the words at face value which probably caused quite a bit of confusion in that discussion.
@0rcd0c it didn't help that Asmon, one of the biggest streamers, said that is what it means. That the order for run means stop playing as a team and you have no obligation to help. This is where the majority of the people that keep bringing this up are coming from.
@ I agree. I have to say it was extremely odd to see Asmon take what was obvious for every WoW veteran and twist it to this degree. The majority of people repeating this blatant lie must have never played WoW.
@@0rcd0c it was shameless, he was trying to stick up for his buddy pirate by mudding the waters. Now there is an army of barely literate commenters repeating his same stupid takes everywhere instead of actually addressing what happened people argue over nonsense points.
I run in a hc guild, and I can tell you, as a mage, if I blinked out and ran 80 yards ahead of my group, who were fighting to stay alive... I'd get gkicked instantly. The mage has the unique ability to slow EVERYTHING, root EVERYTHING, and basically provide a free path for the group to walk to the exit together. Pirate played far more selfishly than anyone expects in HC, and his inability to recognize that it was selfish and refusal to apologize is the reason he got the boot.
The only thing I can say about this is, I don't care so much for sending death threats to someone for menial issues, especially for an online game. Tensions ran high for that situation which is understandable, the aftermath could have been handled more gracefully. In the end it was just a game.
Ultimately Frost Mages niche is slowing mobs and preventing wipes and especially stopping highvalue classes like the priest from dying to aggro'd adds like the mastiff. You freeze or slow the adds so the tank can re-aggro off the priest so they can heal the tank who takes less damage and resources to heal. 'Run' doesn't mean 'skedaddle like a cartoon character fully turned away from the fight' it means retreat skillfully while hitting cool downs to help people get out safe which is the Frost Mages job.
When you call for a run out, you don't expect the team to finish off the mobs. They should have used fear. And they should all have jumped up the trough above the courtyard instead of running out.
1:15 that video doesn't even show who's fault it really was. That video starts off AFTER the tank/druid (one of them) accidentally body pulls the boss when nobody was full resources.. lol the real person at fault was whoever accidentally body pulled the boss.
When has he? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I have watched him for a little over a year and I haven't seen him talk down on anyone. You have an example of when he has?
@@panzerschwan7902Several times in Ashes of Creation when his guild fought the federation guild, several times when watching clips of other mages not playing well during death situations in wow, etc.
@@panzerschwan7902lsf is digging for it. One big one is with lacari (a wow noob) where pirate is clearly talking down on him over some buffs and being petty over some loot. Fast forward to the present lacari talked about it and was clearly not cool with it
@@panzerschwan7902 to add to what others have said and give another example: every single time in the whole Initiative debacle, where he doubled down on his shit takes, black listed basically everyone related to the initiative (using the excuse of the crazy haters to label them all as the same as the ones sending death threats) and refused to let ross explain anything and deleting a good comment made by ross on his dog sh*t video on youtube. This comes from someone that isn't part of the initiative btw... no dogs in this race, just pointing out how things are.
I love Toast going from "he was a new player so its normal he didnt know what he was doing doing" to "omg hes actually a wow veteran and he said all these contradictory things. Mega facepalm"
After watching all of this, the game play is what thr fuck ever who cares they died oh well theyll be back. Priate acting the way he did afterwards, THATS the problem.
They weren't big streamers. It was supposed to be their one and only chance in the guild. The priest has been given another chance. Not sure about the druid.
From what I gather, from all the videos talking about this, the main issue was his attitude. He was just so condescending to everyone and not accepted any kind of responsibility. That is the main issue.
A call was made to get out. The person who kept saying "it's salvageable, just kill those mobs," he killed those team mates. Running's running. Running while your tank is toe to toe, that' was rude. Making a call "aright let's run, break contact, we're going," and covering the tank's initial retreat then getting out, that would be best practice co op. But the call was made to go. Don't talk half of the team into staying. I also notice he was loudest afterward, wanting to fight the battle again theoretically in his mind and vindicate himself. That got players killed and it will again.
This isn't the first time they've kicked streamers they recently added to the guild either. So when he claims they're content farming, him being kicked, gives it all the credibility possible.
I still think the biggest downfall was the communication. I dont have wow experience, but i do have experience shot calling in competitive Apex. Something even as simple as saying "backup" instead of "run" really changes how people react in a situation, especially in a stressful moment
@JACpotatos run means get out one way or another. Then the comms to salvage and come back just make things worse. If the comms were clear and didn't contradict themselves, none of that would've happened
@JACpotatos you know communication is universal, right?? I'm not saying anything about how they played, just how they communicated. Bad communication leads to bad decisions. It's not that hard to understand.
@@AB-bx5to the same words and phrases take on completely different meanings based on where and how they're used. If you can't grasp that.... Well then it's pointless to say anything to you.
As someone who has played wow and numerous other games as a healer. They all could've gotten out but they chose to turn back around and fight instead of keeping on moving to the exit while the healer keeps them alive. Yes pirate had some things to get mana back but he probably didn't remember he didn't "scroll over the mana gem" it looked more like a random mouse movement. At 4:28 all four of them are just standing at the top of the ramp and then decided to "kill the mastiffs" which made everyone switch into combat mode instead of flee mode. The tank then went further from the enemies than the healer. At 4:40 the healer fucked up and got entangled in the enemies and that's what ultimately lead to the downfall. As a healer you gotta make sure to keep distance and not get agro. So again, yes Pirate had the mana things he could've used but in the end would it have made a difference when they decided to fight instead of getting out alive? Probably not.
5:25 I appreciate this message. People think often that they have to be snarky or mean to make a point or defend themselves. It’s almost always possible to make a point or defend yourself but also be reasonably nice about it. The rogue def was too harsh too, to start off
the rogue doesn't speak english well and saying "where are you going bro" is hardly harsh lmao. even when they get out of the dungeon all he does is ask why pirate didn't frost nova, he didn't start calling him a coward or a roach he was just asking what his reasoning was for leaving the rest of them to literally die. very reasonable, if you ask me, i'd be wondering that same thing.
Not for WOW but other games I usually play healer and when we’re getting dogged on and we say to run I’m running and turning back to drop heals and running and turning back, etc. I’m pushing back, but making sure my people are getting out. I don’t think I could ever just run and wash my hands of it. But that’s what it means to be a healer or support character.
I respect and understand u trying to use ur own experience to understand the situation, but this is way deeper and darker than that. Pirate had bad intentions here, he didnt simply misplay. They were also in a guild group, it was not a bunch of randoms. It was also HC, so if you die, you die and lose 150 hours. You can see the smirk if his face while he was running away after deciding they were not worth his effort. You can see he loved the godlike feeling of having that power in his hands
@@jocampe62 Content guild. So essentially randoms. It's not much darker than panic and not willing to risk his 150 hours for the other folks 150 hours. He's being selfish but your playing it as much more melodramatic than it is. All 4 of those other folks just got a massive clout bump that is worth more than 150 hours of their time. Pirate could have and maybe still can salvage it if he does a sincere apology with not 'buts'. It's not that serious.
@kingmanic being evil while in a call with other streamers is nasty. The fact that they also got more attention is out of scope here. Pirate has a very uncontrolled ego and that is well supported by all the evidence that came out in vods. Inform urself better here
@@jocampe62 that's a melodramatic take. Being bad at a game, being selfish, and then acting egotistical is just being shitty. We can call him evil when he gets caught grooming a minor.
@ hm you keep trying to downplay this to avoid dialog over the situation itself. thats not very productive. thats not far from Pirate's echo chamber strategy
I saw Asmongolds break down of this. Pirate did nothing wrong. 13:03 To be fair, he didn't abandon them. They kind of were abandoning him by trying to say, hey, let's just stay here and die. And again, at this moment, he had one hit point laft. That's not very far between him and death. The bottom line is that Pirate is the only one who did the right thing. He's the only one who stayed composed and executed the plan. The way it was put was, if he were in 100% full condition, he could have gone in there and used everything he had and it wouldn't have made a difference.
I think part of the issue is that Thor has always presented himself as someone really wise who has transcended ego, so seeing him act in ways that really aren't in line with that image is particularly damaging to his brand. Ideally he'd take some time to reflect, but then you've got all these people coming in with death threats and other really extreme, insane, disproportionate bullshit, and that makes it hard to really consider your own bad behaviour because of course you feel like the victim when you are genuinely being attacked like that.
Honestly if thor wouldve just said "My bad, you said run so i ran and read twitch chat. Didnt realize you needed my help until it was too late." Then like okay understandable. Dying for your ego is where it always gets too dramatic.
He doesn't NEED to explain himself or apologize though. Everyone who thinks he does needs to join the real world out here. He ran when it was called ('Run! Run Run Run!' to be precise), it was everyone else's fault for stopping when the idiot who panic yelled "Run!", stopped and said "this might be salvageable" instead of just running. Maybe the tank would have died, but it was his very big mistake that got them in the mess to begin with. I'm certainly not turning around and possibly getting myself killed because 3 out of 4 other players are so stupid.
The reason many speculate he was kicked was when he started threatening other streamers/content makes/fellow guild members with reports and bans, including utilizing his old connections in Blizzard, if they kept talking about it or their random unhinged viewers continued raiding his channel.
Streamers were urging on harassment and death threats and they should be reported for breaking tearms of service and fueling hatered and harassment with in their community, platforms and game.
@@F4R207You should name them. Send the vod and the timestamp. Which streamers were urging on harassment and death threats? Which stream did they say it in and at what time in the vod? And what exactly did they say?
@@F4R207 report streamer, block other in social media and ban viewer in his own channel is all fair things to do. Hate raiding is always bad and should be punished but streamer that just talk about it and criticizing him also should not be silenced.
Finally a detailed and easy to understand explanation (with the gameplay footage in question included) of the drama for people who has never played this game. Thank you Toast.
Closest Ive gotten to a game like this is smite so maybe my understanding is shot but if ur a mage just distance yourself far enough to be safe but send ranged abilities to support the front line. No real reason to fully leave the group.
That already makes you better than him because that's kind of what you do in this game too (though you can get in close for nova and then blink out super easy). I played wow for a few years when it released in 2004 (then a few times after each expansions and each time when nostalgia became too hard to ignore)
(Explanation for those who don't understand) The only reason the pull was bad to begin with, was Ozy fought on the slope, and Snupy wasn't paying attention and went behind the ogre for his "backstab" as a catform druid, aggroing a second pack. If they kite backwards and fight 2 packs, they are fine! But they stay on the slope, now it's 2 groups of enemies AND A BOSS. They already had to run out of the same dungeon once before from a fuckup. Pirate normally doesn't play with these players and has no faith in their ability after their repeated fuck-ups. Now, it's easy to say after the fact that pirate was mostly in the wrong. But Ozy fucked up positioning. at 4:40 Snupy pulls a THIRD pack and he also cancelled his heal. This causes Sara's heal to build threat on the third pack (healing or damaging things makes enemies want to kill you.) Yamato calling sara to turn, and snupy cancelling his heals and buttpulling is1000000000000000000000000000000000000% why Sara died. And Snupy dies because he doesn't know how to run without turning his back at the end, and he had charge, and pummel, and other tools. If Snupy was a better player he also would've lived. Pirate was not willing to "play the hero" for a bunch of idiots. And the internet is offended by his ego. I would've done the same in Pirate's place. Sara is the only one who did nothing wrong in terms of gameplay, and while Pirate did something morally wrong, he also made no in game mistakes while the other 3 did.
The first pull that went wrong was actually his fault lol. He aggro'd a boss/pack the group wasn't expecting and then roached out while his team had to deal with it. Subtle foreshadowing, you might say. And don't forget when he wiped his raid in AoC, said it was an unforgivable mistake and that whoever did it was going to get kicked from the raid, only to realize it was his own stupid self who caused the wipe. Guess what he did? roached right out of responsibility and blamed the tanks instead LOL. This guy's an idiot.
Toast with the most logical take on this one, and I think he hit the nail on the head regarding the psychology of flight or fight during intense situations. Thanks for the video!
I love this drama, it feels like early 2002, when drama didn't mean someone is doing a crypto scam or having any other illegal enterprise, takes photos of dead people or something like that.
23:12 The term "roaching" actually comes from the critter roaches inside of dungeons getting hit with passive AoE that would agro packs nearby and cause the group to 'roach out', meaning escape by any means.
Tl;dr: The dude's got a thousand ways of getting his mana back, but he books it instead. Now he's kicking/blocking everyone that says anything about mana or mages within his vicinity, claiming he was right to run instead of help the group kite. To be honest, this felt like a bit until it continued well past the DM incident.
there was a video where he was boasting that if he was at that particular situation he would have saved the group as the mage in the group and criticized someone on their poor gameplay but when it came down to it he flaked and saved himself and said he did nothing wrong. His fight and flight response was at the start up to the ramp when he get near the exit and stopped there was no longer a fight or flight there it was all excuse and ego. so i disagree in some of your analysis. Also a call to run means that we try to exit as group not run at a straight line to the exit and every man for himself. But all that didnt matter it was after and how he handled the aftermath was what people got disgusted.
just in case you dont know. this is their second time failing the raid and analyze the first one to know who is griefing to understand pirate perspective
@@malvarez3611 it was never about the fails of the raid its after and how he handled it. i have no horse in this race but the way he reacted seems childish to me thats all. I dont know the guy nor any of these creators, i just saw this through asmond and even though i like asmond i dont agree with some of his take.
@@vahngaming7107 what if that's the way his tone is. the drama escalates because those idiots are crying for help and looking for allies like a fking snake that their stupidness are not their stupidness alone.
@@malvarez3611 First one was on Pirate. Something like this happened in Ashes of Creation. Look that last one up, it's pretty funny how Thor handled that one. Hint: it wasn't pretty, surprising, I know
PirateSoftware was NOT a developer at blizzard... PirateSoftware worked in QA as a Game Tester. He never saw the code of WoW he never touched the code of WoW.... he does claim to be many things, among them a godly mage and basically in charge of Blizzard... he is infact neither of those.
I was in a casual raid guild as a mage. Our GM taught us basic gameplay. One of those was downgrading spells like blizzard to minimize mana consumption while getting the same effect (slow). Another was mana pots/mana gem/robe of arcana/etc to replenish mana when it's low in combat.
But isnt what his or a mage purpose in that raid? To dps, control and help save the raid team in fcked up situations? He also mentioned this during one of his clips ive seen.
Yeah exactly lol, hes constantly talking about how important mages are in these situations and criticising other mages but when he was put on the spot he completely roached out.
But that wasn't the call. Panicking, caller said run at least 4 times. After they already had to do a full retreat because thor pulled mobs on their first attempt (after someone else decided to try and 'skip' some enemies). The seconds attempt the boss was pulled before anyone was even ready to fight it... Should have been an immediate 'Run'... Not 'run... oh wait, maybe do X, or no do Y, oh, why aren't you doing Z?'.
I gotta be honest I kinda forgot about Mr. Toast since I stopped playing hearthstone back in the day. It's really cool this video came up on my algorithm, I'll have to see what you've been up to.
Most people don't realize they are all starting on Book 7 of the Pathetic Pirate Software Saga........... this guy has been doing this kinda shite for decades - Books 1-3 : MALDAVIUS FIGTREE - SECOND LIFE - He had a furry digital custume business in the weirdo game Second Life where there was accusations of inappropriate digital furry art commissioned by Thor , from a minor. Books 4-6 : MALDAVIUS - EVE ONLINE - Became CEO of a giant zerg corp n lived in newly launched series of system called Pochven - Used unreported new Pochven exploits to make lucrative ingame money and his unchecked ego spiralled out of control which led to him talking tough to the wrong group of doods , thinking his zerg and pochvens mechanics would save him in a game of talent . The Eve Online game devs patched Pochvens exploits in the midsts of us removing him from his home...... which to Pirate could only mean one thing.... the devs were conspiring against him and were amongst our ranks lmao !!!! After no one voted for him to be a CSM member again , his ego got extra hurt n it was the final straw. So instead of fight , he told all his zerg people to blow up all their guilds assets and quit the game along side him cuz the devs are corrupt. He then became Pirate Software ........ told all his new fans his Eve lies lmao The day I found out he was actually MALDAVIUS .... blew my fuqk'n mind people !
@@tablettablete186 Here's more insight : Who it was that first kicked it off im not too sure , but an assortment of some very good wormhole killers from various alliances got together really started messing Maldavius's shite up n some of the big boys just dog piled on top when Pochven was burning His TRIGLAVIAN wide alliance was also simultaneously falling apart roughly around the same time and they were also attacking his group . Even more splintered when he gave the call to self destruct everything lmao . The only reason he did that was because CCP was removing the trig standing requirements for using the gates deeper into pochven .... So his terrible zerg fleet could no longer hide behind silly gate mechanics - To Pirate that was his scapegoat to full blown game roach . A Blizzard dev can't possibly lose at Eve Online ahaha He cried conspiracy and the gate change coinciding with the attacks meant some of us had to be working for CCP and this is what he told his million of new followers after becoming Pirate Software years later ........ the guy is just insufferable. So I'm not too sure who started it but I guess in the end , none of that really matters when we had such a glorious reward of him leaving for good Now , we all get to enjoy THIS
@masserphi2534 This such a crazy situation. I find it even crazier is that I heard about this at the time, but I wasn't a EVE player nor did I know Thor. Thanks for the writeup and for some reason I can't see it in normal comments, only from the notification
There was also his terrible take on stop killing games where is only used strawmen and said blatant untrue things about EU law, citizens initiatives and the goals of the initiative plus the fact he bans anyone that even slightly disagrees with him from chatting/commenting
to me the amateur is the one that called run but changes mind and demands to hold the line.. unless they talked about having a code word, run means run away. you cannot demand others your definition unless it was pre planned.
@cloudsteele1989 I'm saying low rank blizzard costs nothing and he cast the max rank instead, complaining about mana. And even if you have very little left, you can still cast low rank blizzard
@tandraarisandi6680 EQ is similar to IQ, but EQ is about emotions, empathy, and understanding social interactions. Someone with low EQ means they don't really navigate social interactions well, generally are selfish, and are inconsiderate of others. High EQ means that they're understanding of social interactions, can communicate effectively and efficiently, and are generally considerate of other's emotions/viewpoints
@@tandraarisandi6680 You don't know what EQ is? Damn... Anyway, IQ means big number = big smart. EQ means big number = good with people. I is for intelligence and E is for emotional.
Just one more thing. There's a clip of him talking up how good he is at mage and being "physically ill" watching another mage mess up in a dungeon and not save a group. Just a guy with a massive ego who can never admit to doing something wrong and is gaslighting everyone about what happened and skewing the facts. His tweet glossed over many details.
As a tank main, I think it's also partly the tanks fault for doing a bad pull. When in Dire Maul, it's important to utilize CC's before pulling. I saw no polymorph from the mage nor sap from the rogue. The druid could've used roots on one of the dogs as well.
Just saw all of this today and was interested enough to look in. As a healer main in most MMO's, the Rogue was the main reason the healer died as well. He forced the healer to heal, especially a potentially inexperienced healer who folded under pressure, by yelling 'heal him' which drew the healer closer to the mobs by the mess of it and with aggro on the mobs not controlled, allowed aggro to build over this section of the video to go on the healer. Yes Pirate not helping exasperated this and made the situation worse but the Rogue caused confusion with Run then this is salvageable which means we can stand and fight it out basically then causing a distraction by drawing attention to where Pirate is. Honestly the Rogue is just as much at fault as Pirate when they did nothing as well and just sat there watching the deaths happen with being the confusing shot caller. Sure he apologized slightly unlike Pirate but Rogue's are like the second safest class at that level so to me, both the rogue and pirate are the most "at fault" in this situation. Healer probably misplayed once during this with not fearing while on elevated area of the map as i don't believe in DM that they will climb the walls in pathing but its been forever since I have played Wow.
I mean shit happens, people make mistakes. Especially when there are high stakes, and high tension situations. No reason to give hate as a back seat gamer behind a keyboard. Clickedy clacking your way into bullying someone.
He acts like someone that’s been carried in game. Talks a lot about his time and accomplishments, but not realizing how little, oh shit moments he’s had to deal with.
IMO if Pirate is kicked from the guild the rouge also needs to be kicked, he had bad coms, didn't use his util effectively, and only heightened tensions after the dungeon
Pirate was NOT kicked for playing badly. That was never the point. People got angry cause he denied any acountability. And than he said he would get all streamers, that make videos or contend about this, get banned from twitch. That made a lot of streamers in Onlyfangs realy unhappy, and that is what got him kicked.
@@christophroth373 Nice misinformation. Considering if you did your research, Sodapopin literally had his Viewers attempt to view bot PirateSoftware to get HIS channel banned. He never threatened any streamers with Twitch bans, more so the Viewers they sent over to him, to Berate him over a 20 year old Fantasy Video game meant for fun, not content farming. (This is NOT the first time they kicked a recently added streamer to that guild) All the while sending Hate raids, where their viewers would spam racial slurs, death threats, and other Vile rhetoric. Check yourself please. You're stanning, without being Objective or Factual.
@@jkjkrandomsame... I have no idea why someone who hasn't released a 2D gamemaker game after 7 years is lauded as the best game developer on twitch... That's just sad and he only got there through blatant manipulation of the algorithm and telling everyone sweet nothings
Hmm seeing this pov, i heard communication btwn the 3 players. But at pirate's pov, i could barely hear anything as their audio kept cutting and it made them sound more panicked with the audio cutting in and out. This is a communication issue. A simple, i need help! We can do this! Come back! We got this! Is all it takes. Their panic made him panic and the lets run part was the first thing he did. He didnt hear them communicating of their fight with the monsters. But he made a poor judgement call when he kept turning around to see behind him and there is no one there. When u r in a group fighting in a dungeon, it is never a good idea to split away. Seeing a huge gap and no ones there, plus the mage is not in danger, he should go back. Idk if he backed off bc of his no mana means no helping, but arent there items that dont require mana that he could use? Im not a wow player, but most games have health bar, mana/stamina bar, and inventory. There had to be something. Or maybe the mage could be a look out and try to help give commands. Something. But a huge gap made his teammates panic. He can keep a distance to avoid losing his character, but disappearing is a no go. When u work or do a project, just being present is good for the team. Bailing out without anyone noticing is rude when they need u. Even if u finished a part of ur project, just being present to give some presence of support can keep them calm
The same type of drama I used to see while playing in guilds when I was a kid but it seems nothing changes and these kids grew up to repeat the same drama. Some people just need to grow up.
I feel like people are missing critical context on piratesoftware's personallity in general here. The entire WoW thing is not the thing that started the fire. It added onto the huge forrest fire.
31:30 Leaving with a call to leave is the worst thing you have ever seen? Not need rolls, not gear stealing, not leaving with no call, not pulling when people arent ready, not pvp stream sniping. No, a man running when told to run. Liar at best
@@twigsno You and your 'roach' b/s. It's not even slightly clever or funny. It's just cringey. The roaches are all the people sending death threats and piling on harassment campaigns. Come on, just try to justify this REAL FUCKING LIFE behavior, that came about a disagreement in a fucking video game. No, Y'all are actually literal garbage, the stuff roaches eat and shit out.
Genuinely the best explanation I’ve seen for this topic. Could pirate have helped more people if he played better? Absolutely Is pirate a bad person because he panicked and didn’t use his spells properly? No Is pirate a bad person because he has absolutely zero empathy for anyone involved? Absolutely.
The coms weren't very clear with them only calling to turn back after pirate retreated, if he turned back there was a chance he ended up as the healer, and as one of the main enchanters for the guild he decided to not take that risk. With people being mad at him for saying he "played perfectly", he never said that, he just claims he wasn't the reason they died and it was not his fault (several mistakes were made by other players: pulling mobs, bad comms, etc). He has admitted they all played poorly, but he's standing his ground and saying he's not to blame. Overall his tones were harsh/aggressive and he did save himself but I can't blame him and the hate is a WAY overreaction.
This 100%. I kept thinking that they all said to run, and then Yamato calls out Pirate for running. By that point he was oom. At no point did the party actually say "stop running" until it was already a clusterfuck. I will admit though, I don't know much about classic nor anything outside what I see right there. I just feel the flak he received was blown way out of proportion too.
I think the comment about him being a main enchanter was the final nail in the coffin tbh, his role as a mage is critical for these situations where you have to run and reset so I can understand why people would feel uneasy about playing with a mage with that mindset. He lost a lot of trust with that comment, real eye opener to how he thinks. The mana shouldn’t have been an issue when he had CDs and all that was needed was rank 1 blizzards and nova.
Did Pirates ever said "im sorry for my mistake"?? Like i just watched this 35 minutes video and i didn't catch him saying any of that, he only said "WE ALL makes mistake".
Yes, he admitted that he just like everyone in that group could have tried to save people with quite the risk to his character (there were no trust left at that time in the run, so many extra pulls and the healer dies, and Yamato, doing nothing but being toxic, was ruining Oz attempts to establish whatever little there were left), but at that time there was so much hate from streamers and their fans that he was getting death threats and swating atempts.
His mistake didnt cause peoples live to be put in danger He misplayed which could have saved more people from the danger their decisions put them in Those are similar but arent the same.
I remember playing mmorpgs back in 2010 as a dps mage/cc role. If we ran, I’d often be the second last in the group because the usual setup only had one cc role, and I’d try help my group. Now, not every escape went successfully and I’ve died myself. BUT, playing with a group you don’t feel confident in and a boss encounter going wrong, I might have dipped as well as the probability for pulling patrols would be a high likelihood.
It's sorta nice to see the title "huge streamer drama" and have it actually be drama instead of some sorta crime
Seconded
😂😂😂 right, literally just social drama, nobody grooming kids
Christ, the bar is so low we'd need an excavator to find it.
he did do a collab with another streamer that literally said 'women arent people, they are just meat' WITHIN THE WEEK prior to him choosing to do the collab... The streamer also said palestinian people arent people and that they 'should just get to dying already'. ☕ If you want an actual criminal level amount of "drama" 🫡 I hate it here, never meet your idols or look up to male streamers apparently LOL
I suggest you google "maldavius figtree porate software"
Clearly the reason why Thor ended up saying things poorly is because he couldn't bring up Paint to help explain at the time
you got a chuckle
He's always struck me as a very blunt person.
It's just his way of talking, to me, it's just Thor's talking that's it xD
They don't know him enough to "understand" him I guess ? Dunno.
Have a great day/night !
Lol. Hahaha.
@@slyngin3884that may be his way of talking, I’m blunt too. The problem is taking no responsibility in the faces of your teammates that died and lost everything around you, regardless of if it’s entirely your fault of not.
It’s a small gesture to take responsibility not for the result, but, instead, take responsibility for your actions.
Not once did he do that, all he said is “they”. Playing the blame game while protecting his image.
I can be blunt and have a heart. This man has none
Thank you mogul mail
We need a Toasted Times to keep us up to date
Idk; unlike Ludwig Toast would actually call out his friends for doing stupid crap. Puts it a step above Mogul Mail.
Pyrocinical time
I legit thought this was a Mogul Mail video initially
Dogul Tail
as someone who played wow for 15 years, this is standard guild drama lmao i'm glad you all get to see what it was like
That beeing said I have seen people gkicked for less😅
Dude, I've been saying this to all the people who have been linking me the drama. This is just another day in life playing Classic WoW/Hardcore WoW. It's such a different game in that it massively promotes social interactions without taking away from the experience.
not common at all, not anyone can be as narcissistic as piratesoftware
If nobody got gkicked for that I would leave the guild. That was some first rate incompetence. If I was in that guild.
@@WooShin-s2bThe situation itself is pretty common but PS's reaction was what made it into drama
you're the first person I've seen to really break everything down for people who literally don't know anything about WoW, and you do an exceptional job of walking the viewer through everything, step by step - even including details like why the ramp matters. thank you so much!! huge ups to you for taking the time to not just talk about the drama, but also all the components of the drama in a way that non-players like me have a seamless time following along
trueeeee. its easy to understand too why the other players were mad on their pov.
@@msblackrose999 oh yes, absolutely!! you're so right to point that out. other commentators were also just using Pirate's pov, which makes sense, but this really tells the whole story SO much better. way to go Toast :D
@@zephyr-o-saurus tldr tbh- short version: pirate played like shit, lied, was a hypocrite. Refused to admit it, people made fun of him. He threatened to report his guild streamers to twitch to get them banned and lose their jobs. No one cares about the actual gameplay, just that his true persona showed afterwards.
yeah but had a god awful take.
@@msblackrose999 no its so wrong bc he says "frost nova could freeze the big guy but mage is too far away" wich implie its pirite fault but he dont says that big guy is imune to cc so frost nova is inefective against big guy such a waste
This is 30% toast' fault
Lmao
Understandable
He didn't disguise himself.
Agreed 😂😂
Thanks Toast for explaining this for a non-WOW player.
Agreed. Definitely helped explain what happened to people who do not know WoW that well.
I would like to add my own bit of info that I think adds some important context to the situation, as I have also been playing a bit of hardcore WoW.
Mages are a class that are specifically invited to pretty much every party because of their ability to cast ranged spells that apply Area of Effect (AoE) slows, as well as other crowd control (CC) spells, which can be used to save their group members when situations like this happen. Additionally, they also have great survivability tools such a short range teleport to ensure they can escape too. This specific guild (as well as many others) tries to search for a mage in every single one of their parties to minimize the risk of someone dying. It's essentially the whole reason why a mage is "hired" for every group, because their "job" is to help save the group members since they have the best tools to do so and escape with minimal risk.
So Pirate not doing his "job", despite having all these advantages on his class, is looked down upon. It gets even worse when you see the clip of him talking down on someone else in the guild for not doing their job as a mage, going as far as to say it makes him "physically ill", then explaining that he takes certain talents (which are like small boosts to your abilities) so he can save his groups. There's other clips where he says situations like these are actually some of the best moments he's had inside of dungeons, yet when it came time to back up what he was saying he didn't do anything.
So some people take these clips as "proof" that Pirate actually knew what he was doing, and in fact was intentionally letting them die because of ego disputes throughout their time together as a group - which obviously rubs people the wrong way (especially because he was mainly in conflict with the rogue Yamato, and punished 2 other people for it).
Others say it was just a mistake and he panicked in the moment - but this also rubs people the wrong way because he's talked himself up as having a lot of experience as well as insulting other people for their mistakes, yet didn't back up any of his talk when push came to shove.
This info is to help you understand the situation a little better, as well as get a better grasp on why it's become so massive. It's not just about the mistake in the dungeon, it's about the way he has acted before and after the dungeon that has made this situation explode into something so massive. Pretty much it's an accumulation of his actions and behaviour, and this dungeon was just the spark that set it all off.
In my opinion it was way overblown, but there was also the very simple solution of Pirate saying "Yeah, I messed up there. I could've done more. My bad" and everyone moves on. Instead he double, tripled and quadrupled down over the course of multiple days - which just further spurned the hate mob on to call for blood.
@@vGody But he didnt messed up tho, you probably are pretty casual or just a regular hater. 90% of the fault was the warrior doin that stupidass 3 group+boss pull. Ive played Hardcore a lot and that was a 500% run and reset pull, it was obvious. Thor could've played better, maybe, was that goin to save that stupid ass pull???, of course not. In fact, the rogue called for heals AFTER the call for run and that killed the priest. But yeah, that guy Yamato is literally the definition of a WoW incel. Screaming and pointing fingers, Thor actually managed that pretty well, pretty much anyone else woulda told that stupid ass 30yo that is behaving like a kid to calm the fuck down. But yeah. WoW incels.
He explained it really well.
Toast doing drama was not on my 2025 bingo card
Maybe didn’t expect it, but also shouldn’t be surprising.
Toast very much strikes me as a tea enjoyer
@@partingofways Why do I feel like I've seen toast in a video saying "What's the tea" or "What's the tea sis" while hunching over in like a gremlin stance and rubbing his hands together like he's about to partake in a pirates lost treasure. It's very much on brand
Gotta pay the DSG bills someho8w
@@Nickolai20599 too many among us games, he definitely did it in one of those 😂
Had to cash out baby $$$$$
For all the non wow players here. A breakdown below of all the crap plays by all involved.
Tank: didnt kite the mobs back as they ran. Stayed and tanked for way longer then needed. Pulled without looking at party resources. Didnt have the group kill patrolling mobs prior to this pull. Didnt use the pillar to line of sight the mobs.
Rogue: horrible coms needs to stfu and play his class. Not one crowd control was used when he has several available as well as many defensive abilites to keep him safe while using said close range crowd controls. Ran immediately without checking his team until way after.
Priest: let the crap dps die if they pull stupid shit. Good healers are the most valuable roles in the game. I didnt see an aoe fear from him, but could have happened maybe would have helped.
Druid: he pulled the patrol mobs, tried to salavge the mistake near the end and died for trying.
Mage: basically everything wrong was done. No rank 1 blizzard, cone of cold, ice nova. No mana gem used. He is spamming high cost abilities like blink and ice barrier for no reason, burning what ever mana he did have. All of which would have allowed for any number of above mentioned spells. There is zero scenario he dies. Even if he blinks in to ice nova, he still has ice block available (immune to damage ability). And anyone whos played the game as long as he claims knows these basic things. Doesnt help there is numerous clips of him talking about this exact thing prior to this event. Bad look.
This isnt serious like everyone is making it to be. Egos all around, garbage gameplay. Cheers
What I also thought. Everyone pinning mistakes to a single person when everyone's at fault. When the rogue calls out to run, immediately I thought that there's at least 1 of them that will die. At that point they would've gotten out with just a single casualty if they left the tank. Imo the biggest mistake was the shotcaller. Very bad at analyzing the situation and confused at decision making. Then he blames the mage for running and not using spells when he himself didn't even used a single cc.
@rem3176 agreed i also mentioned this, bad show all around. Egos and attitudes made it all worse
Tbh its the ppl that did not runs fault cause they called run
Someone mentioned this was their second attempt at this, and the mage and the rogue were already not getting along. Don't know how true it is, not really gonna invest a lot of emotion into it, but the mage dipping as quick as he did and the rogue trying to pin as much blame on him as he can makes more sense if it was true. None of it justifies any of it though.
@@TheRagingAurayeah you are correct. The vibes were in fact off and I am sure that played a large part in valuing himself over that group.
why does it sound like im hearing a true crime documentary of someone actually dying? lol
for real man..
I was half listening until "and someone dies" and I thought that's about where I'd ended up.
wow abridged
to be fair, its not that someone died
but the fact that one person cant take a tinny little bit of blame on them due to narcissism
@@akiranosome918 dont be stupid enough to demand that from a narcissist then?
One of the reasons he gets so much shit is that in the last month he watched death clips lecturing other mages on what to do as a mage
It is totally reasonable to shit on him about his skills and gameplay, not so much on demanding an apology or make death threats, that is just stupid.
@@insanedar Yeah, no sane person is making death threats
He mentioned banning people who sends death threats and such. (more than) A couple of his viewers come out saying they got banned for the same thing, mild criticism or even any mention of mana gem and/or robe = banned. And then it came out that hes been banning anyone who criticize him prior to this.
@@insanedar, and it's totally reasonable to not interact with him and kick him out of the guild for refusing to apologize for not helping anybody in that dungeon. They're not mad he left the dungeon, they're mad he doesn't have empathy for making 2 people lose 2 weeks of their lives and refusing to just say, "I'm sorry, my bad." That's all he needed to do, yet he acts like a child with a holier than thou attitude. Getting death threats is terrible, but that doesn't excuse people from criticizing shitty human behavior and then gaslighting people about it and shifting the blame from themselves to others and not taking any accountability for their actions. They ALL made mistakes, and they all took accountability for it apologized to the people that died. except for Pirate software, who kept referring to that "THEY" should do better, not "WE."
Playing terribly is forgivable but acting like you did everything correctly when you barely did do anything at all deserves all the hate
I swear if he said "MY bad I messed up because I panicked" and didn't trash talk the guild it wouldn't have escalated or been kicked out.
Well considering he did the same thing in ashes of creation and has been acting like a hot shot mega mage player in WoW it shouldn't surprise anybody that this went the way it did. Like the others have blame, but Pirate has the most of it and still acted that way. People are finally getting to see the man behind the marketing facade (same with how he handled the initiative. My guy can't stop from acting like an absolute narcisistic, I-know-all douchebag)
@@GravitasZero For me it was shown with how he handled the 'Stop Killing Games' movement in the EU. He talked and gave examples as though it was happening in the USA, without giving any thought that it was happening with different systems and mechanisms in the EU, while also cutting off any chance of debating things with the creator and main motivator behind that movement.
@@leadpaintchips9461 I got where he was coming from because I understand, to get a concessions you have to give concessions. So if your goal is too vague or broad, expect to be ignored or it go nowhere. Which is what he meant when he disagreed with the way they were handling it.
@ The whole process in the EU is the initial proposal is _supposed_ to be unrefined, so that they can call in experts to refine it. It also had things that he blatantly got wrong and didn't want to hear anything about him getting wrong, like the retroactive nature of the proposal (PirateSoftware was claiming it was going to screw every game that has been released when rulings like this are specifically _not_ retroactive).
It's fundamentally a different system then what the US has.
PirateSoftware didn't want to talk about this. He said that he will never talk to the founder of that petition. When people called him out on his ignorance of the EU process, he deleted other people's posts and blocked them while claiming harassment. Basically the same exact MO of this drama.
@@leadpaintchips9461
Hello. I'm from Europe and have studied political science, philosophy, and how rhetoric is used in the news and online - think a "guy who knows politics and finds understanding propaganda a fun hobby." Safe to say, I know I am qualified when I say this: the SKG initiative may have come from good intentions, but it should've been ignored the moment the guy said "It is an easy win for politicians."
This line of thinking should only ever be thought of when a law is drafted and finalized and when to get the final votes to get the most ideal version of a law through, necessary political compromises are discussed. This is the ONLY time when this line of thinking has any place anywhere in the world.
Everything that is an easy win for politicians is either a given or overly simplified when the topic is far more complicated. Digitalized archiving is one such topic when it comes to games, and literally, every single point that Thor brought up was correct. There is an ongoing debate amongst archivists on how games are supposed to be archived. It doesn't matter that it is just an initiative. When it is rooted in what is best misconceptions and at worst, ignorance or an active disregardment towards game development then the best thing ya' have is to stop and start over again. Because the initiative _is_ grounded in something which is categorically a mistake at best.
Sure, he ain't from Europe and got things wrong. That's to be expected. The main points he brought up are demonstrably true though, and it matches with how political rhetoric, discussions, lawmaking, and more work in the EU. SKG is just a really bad movement built from a really bad idea that isn't grounded in reality. It is grounded in misconceptions, misunderstandings, and ignorance of how politics and game development respectively work.
28:26 why was this video not called- "the s*** hit the fang" lol
Missed opportunity smh
Eyyy. Nice one.
tyler said it best. it had all the ingredients for big drama. Big hot shot mage who looks down on everyone. Runs away at the first sign of danger. Doubles down on his decision to run away in fear
Sounds like a story beat I would see in a manhwa
@@WanderTheNomadman this is what im thinking throughout this whole thing. That priest comes back overpowered or something
He roached out even worse in previous attempt when rest of group fought minutes to escape and survive.
@@michaelh878 After HE buttpulled and no calls being made. What are we even talking about
Serious question do you have a clip of Tyler saying that
Toast summed it up well at one point. PirateSoftware's actions aren't that big of a deal. His words are the issue. He messed up, made some mistakes. Just had to own it and apologize.
I still think he's overall a good guy. He does a lot with charity, helps a lot of people with game development/hacking/etc, and does a lot of good in general. But I think he has a huge ego and talks a big game that he can't always back up. Everyone knows that type of person. Doesn't mean they're an awful human being, it's just a character flaw. We all have one character flaw or another.
Funny thing is he did apologize, just not the way 'people' wanted it to be
@@luchito1337 He didn't, he deflected, the most he did was 'we all made mistakes' like 24 hrs later, which is not an apology for YOUR mistakes.
@zomfgroflmao1337 just like YAMATO did, mate, it's in he vods both them said the same thing, they both took we made mistakes, but somehow it's Pirate that needs to say ME
@@luchito1337 everyone knew yamato was dog at the game, the reason why people pile on pirate is because he puts himself as the jesus of mages, constantly criticising other mages for playing badly in exact scenarios like these, while he roaches out immediately and plays like an absolute dog.
@@luchito1337 LoL yeah shit is wild Yamato got off scott free. Yamato wasn't paying attention, panic called over the others multiple times and just watch his dps being the lower than even Pirates for half the way back and spikes from doing 6 hits he's literally being a camera man lol. Never as a rogue for a whole expansion or 2 after OG would I not try evasion tank to give others a chance or use the countless CC available. Even the debrief that starts just trying to wrap their head around what else 3 of them could have done to be talked over again by Yamato completely shutting down any chance of discussion. Its the disrespect to the healer who tried to save the group that is so insulting... no omg Sara thank you so much so sorry if you need any help levelling if your going again let us know.
A good take.
Few things:
By his own words he is a mythic+ player in retail and has played a fair bit of classic, he was in the list of sweats in the guild.
The dire maul run just before that one was also pretty fucked for reasons outside of his control, mainly aggro related where he was forced to iceblock to avoid dying, so probably already not feeling too great about that group of players.
Most if not all of the hate was just LSF users as opposed to people from specific twitch channels, one person for example made a bot that just made new accounts purely to type "mana" into his chat, which would then be instantly banned.
As for the "run", that in a group setting is widely accepted to mean "get as many of us out as possible", turning heel and double blinking so far out of range that you couldn't help if you wanted to is very much against that idea.
My personal opinion on the matter, the dude just needs to wind down his ego a bit, there's even now a clip resurfacing from a fair bit ago in I think ashes of creation where he pulls an enemy using a spell which moves forward and wipes a raid group, and then pretty much goes on a witchhunt trying to find whos fault it was, only to retarget the blame elsewhere when he saw it was his own spell that did it.
One thing I wanted to point out was that it was pirate who pulled in the previous run, it was not aggro related but him going too far up the ramp and pulling more mobs. The group could have played safer to be fair but it was on him for pulling and he shifted the blame.
Yeah if he let off his ego in the slightest, said sorry and didn't quadruple down no sane normal person would still be mad. He's also blowing the "hate" out of proportion, I'm not doubting he got shitty messages but no way there were thousands of death threats
@@WesterlyToast Tbh, I can believe it with how ruthless the internet can be and how much the drama reached. But man, you just need a little bit of humility and a little bit of patience until it blows all over. I really think he is very insistent that he is in the right and that really fanned the flames even more.
He should have quit the group not retried it. He roached out even worse in the previous attempt.
@@rontenchavez4605 Its hard to believe them on that because his 'I got 10.000 hate messages' was a huge gaslight. He lumped up a bunch of people that were banned on his chat for things like 'mana gem' 'mana emote' or even 'what is happening?' as hate watchers. Moreover he also lumped up any content creator criticizing or memeing on him as 'sending me hate raids'. No content creator did that, there has not a single clip of that, Pirate just attempted to gaslight everyone to make himself a victim.
cool that toast put his 2 cents in. I wasn't looking into the situation but I got the gist of it now.
Regardless of PirateSoftware here, the rogue had so many options to help out but chose to just hang around doing nothing. From what I can see of his bars he had gouge, sprint, evasion and vanish off CD, and didn't even try to help out the tank or druid when they were in trouble on the ramp. Assuming he already used blind he could still gouge one enemy to stun it, vanish into cheap shot to stun another, then build up combo points for a quick kidney shot stun on another to give the tank/healer some time to run, and then he still would've had evasion + sprint to get out of trouble himself.
But no, just do nothing at all until everyone else starts trying too, and even then only hits one guy like 2-3 times before sprinting out of there. He did basically the same thing as PirateSoftware, the only difference is he didn't need to be physically close to the exit to save himself because he's a rogue with every single way possible to survive.
Btw I am a warrior, so I obviously have bias against rogues, especially ones that do this shit.
The rogue was new. Pirate is not. He always brags about his "20 years of wow experience". Yet only one of them apologized for fcking up while the other quadrupled down on not owning his mistakes.
@@gamma00crucis His experience told him that the group was too weak to risk his char over it. They had just almost wipe in a previous run and showed how disorganized they were. This is typical of people who get carried by knowledgeable players and so they never learned the basic security rules like back pulling, waiting for food/drinks and so on. If they learned those rules and disregarded them, feeling overconfident because they have "carries" in their group, it's not the carry's fault if you make his job harder. I'd try my best to help you, until you try blame shifting stuff on me, from which point you're on your own. Pirate's knowledge of the game is what made him not do the misplay many were "demanding" him to make. You cannot frost nova the boss, the only real threat in that retreat. The priest spent too much time hard casting spells when he should've use shield+renew and follow the run call like he initially did, the only person that might have died in that case would've been the war or druid, much more replaceable than a priest and the main culprit as to why things went south so quickly. The only person deserving of a gkick there was the rogue as his toxic behavior in a crisis showed that he's in there for the glory and clout, not the feats and skills. But absent GL kicking the wrong person because of clique behavior is the quintessential -high school- wow guild experience.
@@JimmyR42 Nah, it's a pattern of behaviour with pirate. He did that twice in the same day (HE buttpulled the first near-wipe earlier and then roached out), and then before that he did the same thing in AoC where he fcked up (in AoC it was so much worse because he wiped the whole raid and said "I'm kicking whoever did that, unacceptable" and then when he saw the clip that confirmed it was him he switched up IMMEDIATELY and started blaming the tanks). After all his big talk about what to do in a tight situation in a dungeon, his bragging about his "20 years of experience" and roasting other mages when they misplay, this is how he handles a bit of heat? He runs away with his keys unbound? Yeah, he was going to get cooked for this regardless lol. You can't talk yourself up and then expect people not to mock you when your real skill level is revealed in such a hilarious way. Then he kept insisting for like 3 days that he made no mistake and couldn't have helped. Just straight wrong lol. He screwed himself by doing that because every single ACTUAL wow vet agrees he roached and that he absolutely had options to help his group. Also I don't think you play wow because what fcked his group was not the boss. *The boss was on the tank the whole time*. *The ADDS were the problem, they killed the 2 who died, and he absolutely 1000000000% could've nova'd them and saved those 2*. Shit, days before he was absolutely COOKING moonmoon for doing that exact same thing. Totally ripped into the guy for not saving his group. This is hilarious karma.
If anything the weakest link on the team WAS pirate because he was unwilling to do any reasonable thing to help his group. Everyone else was on the same page except for pirate, and that is the real problem. If they all roached like he did, no problem. But if they did, the tank and for sure the druid die. So they tried to recover. All except him, that is, who was dutifully following calls until the call was to come back and help lmao.
And finally the real reason pirate got gkicked is because he went on to claim all of onlyfangs was built on hate/they're monsters, and also he was actively trying to get people banned for covering the topic. Not even just critiquing him, but for covering it at all. So Soda had to kick him.
@@JimmyR42 It's a pattern of behaviour with pirate. He did that twice in the same day (HE buttpulled the first near-wipe earlier and then roached out), and then before that he did the same thing in AoC where he screwed up (in AoC it was so much worse because he wiped the whole raid and said "I'm kicking whoever did that, unacceptable" and then when he saw the clip that confirmed it was him he switched up IMMEDIATELY and started blaming the tanks). After all his big talk about what to do in a tight situation in a dungeon, his bragging about his "20 years of experience" and roasting other mages when they misplay, this is how he handles a bit of heat? Yeah, he was going to get cooked for this regardless lol. You can't talk yourself up and then expect people not to mock you when your real skill level is revealed in such a hilarious way. Then he kept insisting for like 3 days that he made no mistake and couldn't have helped. Complete lie. He screwed himself by doing that because every single ACTUAL wow vet agrees he roached and that he absolutely had options to help his group. Also I don't think you play wow because what killed his group was not the boss. *The boss was on the tank the whole time. The ADDS were the problem, they killed the 2 who died, and he absolutely 1000000000% could've nova'd them and saved those 2*.
If anything the weakest link on the team WAS pirate because he was unwilling to do any reasonable thing to help his group. Everyone else was on the same page except for pirate, and that is the real problem. If they all roached like he did, fine. But if they did, the tank and for sure the druid die. So they tried to recover. All except him, that is, who was dutifully following calls until the call was to come back and help.
And finally the real reason pirate got gkicked is because he went on to claim all of onlyfangs was built on hate/they're monsters, and also he was actively trying to get people banned for covering the topic. Not even just critiquing him, but for covering it at all. So Soda had to kick him.
@@nyoooalsono9469 yk the craziest thing is that he was already at the exit. he was completely 100% safe and snupy died within casting range of where he was at the exit. forget the healer at that point, if he stayed even 1 second longer and cast 1 single frost nova to get the mob off him, at least 4 of them probably make it out. the tank had boss aggro literally the whole run back. it was so safe for him but he just left lol
I think he would have been ok if he said.
"Look. I could have gained mana. But, at the time I didn't realize and I missed it. That is a mistake on my part. My bad."
But he progressively made things worse with how he handled it.
In fairness, if you're being attacked by literally hundreds of people, I can imagine it's really easy to get down in the weeds and turtle up instead of thinking logically
Also, being called out isn't easy. Hard to back down from that kind of thing and just take it. This was also touched on by toast. Doesn't make it right, but people are acting like he committed mass genocide or something with recent events, or like they wouldn't have done the exact same thing.
@@vincentro6871 i somewhat agree but this has happened a few times with pirate now (aoc moment) and it comes with the territory of being a streamer. if you can't handle the heat get out of the profession that puts you in the fire. he's really bad at taking accountability in general. this goes all the way back to his eve online days.
@@ShadowmancerLord it’s simple integrity. These people are 30/40+ years old…It’s an expected part of being a member of a successful team or group
@@rtInHeaven
This is why I don't play hardcore or with other players if I can help it 😂
I also think it's a bit played up that somehow he took no responsibility? When he said everyone except the healer played imperfect, and admitted mismanagement of resources. People often forget the human error aspect and panic makes you even more prone to error, he turned back to help but as he did they rounded the corner coming right at him. I would have bailed to at that moment, every other caster kicked the bucket I wouldn't have risked it 😂
I also don't think it's fair for the rouge to ask him to risk his character after 1 went down when the rouge will never be in that position and is likely to make it out.
It's weird cuz they all admitted they are all wrong, but because they can latch onto him 🪳ING out they did, and probably to hard honestly.
Never played WoW so i don't know what i was looking at with mobs ability, skill casts and status. Thanks for the detailed explanation Lud!
in that situation, all mobs could only attack from close range. They were also stunable except the bigger guy, the boss. Mage is king in the situation.
But do not focus on that, its misguiding the real issue here.
There was no misplay/mistakes here by Pirate, he was conscious of his actions.
Pirate had bad intentions here, he didnt simply misplay. They were also in a guild group, it was not a bunch of randoms. It was also HC, so if you die, you die and lose 150 hours.
You can see the smirk if his face while he was running away after deciding they were not worth his effort. You can see he loved the godlike feeling of having that power in his hands
nah they would have lived if the dumbass druid didnt pull the third pack mid fight, even if pirate ran away they had it in the bad but the druid jumping like a moron backwards aggro a third pack of mobs and got the healer killed which caused him to die too, thats literally out of pirates control and the original 2 packs were still salvagable without pirate
@@CzDelta92buddy everyone who plays the game is past that. that is NOT the main issue here, ur just being gaslighted into that topic
@@jocampe62 my man if it was him being a douche everyone on mythic is guilty of that, nearly every wow streamer is an ego driven manbaby that makes a tantrum every month about something, was that the issue? how many times you had people dying already and one dude blaming others and throwing a fit? so was the issue him not apologizing?
@@CzDelta92 yes, you can dig way more and it gets way more nasty but thats a good summary, he only had to apologize
Toast breaking this down with the details is so helpful for me. Thanks sir .
agree!
If "run out" in hardcore meant every man for himself, then nobody would have incentive to play tank/heals as they would always be the main targets on aggro and be permadazed on escape attempts and be the only ones at risk to lose their character. I played DPS throughout WotLK then took on other roles in later expacs on and off and have played every spec through the leveling process to near max level at least once. Every spec has a toolkit that is unique and helps to contribute to survivability in a distinct way. If you choose to ignore this kit, don't be surprised when people ignore you when it comes to assembling a group, because you aren't bringing anything but liability and entitlement.
Every wow player I know who plays hard-core has agreed that when the shot caller says and I quote "RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!!!!!!" you gtfo. Most mage players I've spoke to have said they would have blinked once and Portaled out
yea, I've heard streamers say if run meant run with no regard for the group, instead of retreating with the group and helping each other when possible
that there would be no run call where the tank survives, and that no one would ever want to play tank
@jshadow62 You don't gtfo with zero regards to any other teammate though. This is universally true even outside WoW. Essentially not a single team-based game does "RUN!" mean "Every man for himself, ignore everything and just focus on getting yourself out". "Run" essentially means retreat, get yourself to safety, but to the best of your ability help your teammates do the same.
@Whitedudeabove in hxc it absolutely does. It means everyone use all your resources to get out. Fall back would be a better call. In the mmos I've played as well as other rpg games with hard-core modes, that's what it means. Not just to me, but to literally everyone I've played with. I'm hearing a lot of soft core players saying the same thing. It wasn't just the run call. He literally yelled "RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN" yeah, that means gtfo. Had they all kept running, no one would have died. Maybe the tank dies but that's what happens when you're a tank and make shit pulls. You shouldn't expect everyone to stick around and try to save you because you massively fucked up. I can't tell you how many dps I've let die because they didn't listen to my call outs and they thought they knew more than me. Fuck around and find out.
@justanobody0 plenty of tanks survive after a run call. In fact, most make it. However, had that tank not done shit pulls, none of this would have happened. It all starts with the tank and it all ends with the tank.
Sykk would have dipped. Toast would have yelled at Sykk. They would have laughed at it after a few days.
@@asiangamer88111 that's why i don't like both Yamato and pirate in this situation. Yamato coms is just utter dogshit. Pirate didn't even try and roached out. Both are just bad
@@AwangKhairunnasthe difference is yamato apologized immediately while piRAT on the other hand refused to take any accountability
@@polee2362wrong Pirate also apologized, Yamato wanted HIM to take all responsibilities
Yeah pirate didn’t have to yap about running while everyone else in the party is fighting
@@luchito1337 hahaha at what point did he say "sorry I could've done more guys"
Is it days after the dungeon on a random discord server
Cause it's sure wasn't any time after the run or when someone died cause he immediately left the comms and said "I ain't dealing with this shit they pulled and now it's blame the mage, I was out of Mana nothing I could do"
You guys just making up shit at this point
if its one thing i learned about MMOs is that NOBODY pays any attention to any paramaters but their parses, someone can die at full health and will still cry to the healer "where were the heals" after they stood in and got hit by an instakill mechanic
This is the dumbest drama event I've ever seen go viral. Onlyfangs are making wow players look bad for dog piling. This should never have been drama that pulled the internets attention.
It's the funniest drama, since the more content you watch that he provides it just makes it worse and worse
As someone who doesn’t play WoW, how you explained this situations was in such a way that I was able to comprehend what was going on, and I loved that. Thank you for being a great communicator, Toast!✨
even toast is covering this? what timeline is this?
i feel like this is such a petty issue and its somehow blown up and spread across the multiverse
I mean Toast love's WOW
well WoW is one of his favorite games. although he plays offline mostly. and he Raids Lead on OTV circle
@@msblackrose999 understatement. He is an OG sweat in WOW. Knows most of the lore in that game once upon a time. He was a true loremaster who first got his stint in content creation by covering lore of Hearthstone cards. If he raided with onlyfangs, he would be labelled one of the "sweats" for sure and can probably level a 60 in HC with no problems at all.
Fake toast fan that didnt watch his old WOW/hearthstone lore videos smh
The zombie apocalypse analogy but the guy running has an Ar-15 with a full mag.
just forgot he could reload it for some reason and then doubles down saying shooting was not possible, do you not see his empty chamber? What do you want him to do about it?
Not a great comparison you can do better, ammo is scarce in a zombie apocalypse. Running while trying to hit a target is not easy. Natural selection, survival of the fittest that simple really. In actuality it’s the tanks fault, as someone who’s played tank for over a decade and lost over 1000 hours it is your sole duty to protect your team and the tank here failed to protect his team he should’ve sacrificed himself to hold the line while his party members run
@@deucesbyefrom what people have said if he focused on slowing the adds like the mastiffs they could have gotten out of there with no deaths
@@deucesbye 😂😂
Toast needs to make a dedicated slop channel. I'd watch him ramble about shit like this
I know nothing about WoW so I can't work out if he could've acted better....however, I do know people and his arsey 'im done with this' attitude towards his teammates was where he messed up.
Exactly the point. I can tell you him saying he has no mana with 3 different ways to get instant mana and is lying here and wasting it to justify. He also can save them all with 1 button from a safe distance if he tried with low level frost spell blizzard. All of this super shady not the problem if he just apologizes ppl do this shit like this all the time in the guild, the problem is after refusing to take ANY blame for not trying to help his team when 2 ppl lost hundreds of hours by dying and having to restart.
He roached out in previous attempt as well. He should have refused to try again if he thought so lowly of rest of group.
@@michaelh878 The funny thing it was him that buttpulled extra mobs that previous run and did exactly the same thing ignoring all shotcalls
Wow player here!:
He absolutely had every tool available to help that group. He had enough mana to cast multiple crowd control abilities, but even if he didn’t have enough mana, he also had a mana gem and an ability on his robes that both give a ton of mana. From pirates POV, he even acknowledges he has those by bringing his mouse inches from those buttons. His “mana issues” were exacerbated when he used blink 3 times and ice barrier’d without a single enemy attacking him
Lucky you, you don't need to be good at out for this situation. It's been unanimous among ALL streamers that the problem of this situation was never the roaching it was just PIrate's attitude and subsequent threats
That one critical point that I've been missing all this time was the losing your character forever part because its hardcore mode. Like yikes, no wonder people reacted such a way.
wait so the rest of his teammates are dead forever once piratesoftware ran??
All of the defences toast lays out for pirate ends with “yeah if he’s a new player then this makes sense” but pirates WHOLE THING is “my dad was a blizzard dev! I was a blizzard dev!! You’re wrong about how this niche thing works, I actually know, can I teach you about it cause I know it and you don’t??” Which makes it 10000X more infuriating.
The rogue called:"run run run" It his his fault. Then he stopped running and tried to fight and most of them died. If he kept running. One of them would probably have died. There is nothing the mage could have done to save them. The rogue himself also did nothing, The rogue was just running aswell. If those morons just kept running they would have survived.
My favorite part was how soft and how many chances and how much benefit of the doubt he gave Pirate, and then on multiple occasions during that very stream(moused over the mana gem, Pirate quadrupling down with the tweet) it was shown how Pirate deserved none of it.
????
His Blizzard dev claim to fame is more like knowledge and familiarity rather than player skill... but he definitely isn't new or inexperienced lol
the mana gem toast showed on wowhead is a lower rank one, mana ruby(the one pirate had) gives 1200 mana
Enough for 4 more r1 blizzards.
Run in a HC guild run never means run out to the exit and stop trying to save people where its viable. This isn't classic where you respawn at the GY for a wipe, its hours and hours of character loss. It simply would not be viable for people to play like that normally in hc because there would never be a tank left, this isn't a zombie apocalypse where everyone is the same class, people in wow have distinct roles they have to fill. You have to commit to a certain degree of taking risk, there is a line of course, you shouldn't just jump in a fire if there is absolutely no hope of recovery, but that wasn't it, wasn't even close to it.
I was reflecting on that and I think there's also bit of a terminology issue we have in WoW. When I saw this clip I knew this "run run run" was obviously retreating while kiting. The situation wasn't so dire that you needed to "abbandon ship and everyone for himself". I saw another clip in BRD where the tank called a single "run" and in this situation it was obvious to gtfo because you couldn't kite much there and you needed to get to a reset spot asap - throw dummies and instant casts but hold 'W'.
Seasoned players know what to do in certain situtations and understand eachother even when the message isn't specific. But never players and non-WoW viewers take the words at face value which probably caused quite a bit of confusion in that discussion.
@0rcd0c it didn't help that Asmon, one of the biggest streamers, said that is what it means. That the order for run means stop playing as a team and you have no obligation to help. This is where the majority of the people that keep bringing this up are coming from.
@ I agree. I have to say it was extremely odd to see Asmon take what was obvious for every WoW veteran and twist it to this degree. The majority of people repeating this blatant lie must have never played WoW.
@@0rcd0c it was shameless, he was trying to stick up for his buddy pirate by mudding the waters. Now there is an army of barely literate commenters repeating his same stupid takes everywhere instead of actually addressing what happened people argue over nonsense points.
I run in a hc guild, and I can tell you, as a mage, if I blinked out and ran 80 yards ahead of my group, who were fighting to stay alive... I'd get gkicked instantly. The mage has the unique ability to slow EVERYTHING, root EVERYTHING, and basically provide a free path for the group to walk to the exit together.
Pirate played far more selfishly than anyone expects in HC, and his inability to recognize that it was selfish and refusal to apologize is the reason he got the boot.
That 1 HP is an overlay btw. He was safe the whole time.
It's actually not an overlay. It's a macro
@Smilehp7 It's overlay. Ziqo was meme-ing when they were talking to Tyler about it.
Good to know. I was wondering if it was a bug since Pirate didn't have low HP in the first perspective.
Toast doesn't know of piratesoftware? That's some crazy algorithm dodging.
Yeah even I know him because he's in Ludwig's company
toast never touching TH-cam shorts confirmed
toast he had a mana ruby, the next level up. restores 1200 mana
So Pirate passed the skill check by not trusting people who already made a bunch of mistakes but failed the charisma check after, got it
death threats is crazy tho, absolutely not acceptable, disgusting behavior.
24:08 feels like a moment when a lawyer goes over the clients evidence and finds out the opposition has a smoking gun 💀
The only thing I can say about this is, I don't care so much for sending death threats to someone for menial issues, especially for an online game. Tensions ran high for that situation which is understandable, the aftermath could have been handled more gracefully. In the end it was just a game.
Ultimately Frost Mages niche is slowing mobs and preventing wipes and especially stopping highvalue classes like the priest from dying to aggro'd adds like the mastiff. You freeze or slow the adds so the tank can re-aggro off the priest so they can heal the tank who takes less damage and resources to heal. 'Run' doesn't mean 'skedaddle like a cartoon character fully turned away from the fight' it means retreat skillfully while hitting cool downs to help people get out safe which is the Frost Mages job.
When you call for a run out, you don't expect the team to finish off the mobs. They should have used fear. And they should all have jumped up the trough above the courtyard instead of running out.
1:15 that video doesn't even show who's fault it really was. That video starts off AFTER the tank/druid (one of them) accidentally body pulls the boss when nobody was full resources.. lol the real person at fault was whoever accidentally body pulled the boss.
Some contexts here, pirate is the type of guy that talks down to others so when he is being judged, people are going to be love it.
When has he? I'm not saying you are wrong, but I have watched him for a little over a year and I haven't seen him talk down on anyone. You have an example of when he has?
@@panzerschwan7902there was the Ross situation where he refused to talk to him about the EU initiative and called him a greasy car salesman.
@@panzerschwan7902Several times in Ashes of Creation when his guild fought the federation guild, several times when watching clips of other mages not playing well during death situations in wow, etc.
@@panzerschwan7902lsf is digging for it. One big one is with lacari (a wow noob) where pirate is clearly talking down on him over some buffs and being petty over some loot. Fast forward to the present lacari talked about it and was clearly not cool with it
@@panzerschwan7902 to add to what others have said and give another example: every single time in the whole Initiative debacle, where he doubled down on his shit takes, black listed basically everyone related to the initiative (using the excuse of the crazy haters to label them all as the same as the ones sending death threats) and refused to let ross explain anything and deleting a good comment made by ross on his dog sh*t video on youtube.
This comes from someone that isn't part of the initiative btw... no dogs in this race, just pointing out how things are.
I love Toast going from "he was a new player so its normal he didnt know what he was doing doing" to "omg hes actually a wow veteran and he said all these contradictory things. Mega facepalm"
After watching all of this, the game play is what thr fuck ever who cares they died oh well theyll be back. Priate acting the way he did afterwards, THATS the problem.
They weren't big streamers. It was supposed to be their one and only chance in the guild. The priest has been given another chance. Not sure about the druid.
Okay thats really sad then tbh
From what I gather, from all the videos talking about this, the main issue was his attitude. He was just so condescending to everyone and not accepted any kind of responsibility. That is the main issue.
Him getting kicked, proved his point about the content farming
This is also a repeated offense with this Guild.
They seem to kick streamers often from it.
A call was made to get out. The person who kept saying "it's salvageable, just kill those mobs," he killed those team mates. Running's running. Running while your tank is toe to toe, that' was rude. Making a call "aright let's run, break contact, we're going," and covering the tank's initial retreat then getting out, that would be best practice co op. But the call was made to go. Don't talk half of the team into staying. I also notice he was loudest afterward, wanting to fight the battle again theoretically in his mind and vindicate himself. That got players killed and it will again.
Someone with a head on his shoulders in the youtube comments? Nice
This isn't the first time they've kicked streamers they recently added to the guild either.
So when he claims they're content farming, him being kicked, gives it all the credibility possible.
Thanks Toast for the detailed explanation. As a person who has never played Wow, this was perfect.
I still think the biggest downfall was the communication. I dont have wow experience, but i do have experience shot calling in competitive Apex. Something even as simple as saying "backup" instead of "run" really changes how people react in a situation, especially in a stressful moment
Nah. "Run" always means retreat as a team... Not every man for themself
@JACpotatos run means get out one way or another. Then the comms to salvage and come back just make things worse. If the comms were clear and didn't contradict themselves, none of that would've happened
@@AB-bx5to no... It doesn't. You even say you've never played, so you're just pulling this out of nowhere
@JACpotatos you know communication is universal, right?? I'm not saying anything about how they played, just how they communicated. Bad communication leads to bad decisions. It's not that hard to understand.
@@AB-bx5to the same words and phrases take on completely different meanings based on where and how they're used. If you can't grasp that.... Well then it's pointless to say anything to you.
As someone who has played wow and numerous other games as a healer. They all could've gotten out but they chose to turn back around and fight instead of keeping on moving to the exit while the healer keeps them alive. Yes pirate had some things to get mana back but he probably didn't remember he didn't "scroll over the mana gem" it looked more like a random mouse movement. At 4:28 all four of them are just standing at the top of the ramp and then decided to "kill the mastiffs" which made everyone switch into combat mode instead of flee mode. The tank then went further from the enemies than the healer. At 4:40 the healer fucked up and got entangled in the enemies and that's what ultimately lead to the downfall. As a healer you gotta make sure to keep distance and not get agro. So again, yes Pirate had the mana things he could've used but in the end would it have made a difference when they decided to fight instead of getting out alive? Probably not.
5:25 I appreciate this message.
People think often that they have to be snarky or mean to make a point or defend themselves.
It’s almost always possible to make a point or defend yourself but also be reasonably nice about it.
The rogue def was too harsh too, to start off
the rogue doesn't speak english well and saying "where are you going bro" is hardly harsh lmao. even when they get out of the dungeon all he does is ask why pirate didn't frost nova, he didn't start calling him a coward or a roach he was just asking what his reasoning was for leaving the rest of them to literally die. very reasonable, if you ask me, i'd be wondering that same thing.
@@twigsnoit could totally be entirely interpreted in an aggressive way though.
Not for WOW but other games I usually play healer and when we’re getting dogged on and we say to run I’m running and turning back to drop heals and running and turning back, etc. I’m pushing back, but making sure my people are getting out. I don’t think I could ever just run and wash my hands of it. But that’s what it means to be a healer or support character.
I respect and understand u trying to use ur own experience to understand the situation, but this is way deeper and darker than that. Pirate had bad intentions here, he didnt simply misplay. They were also in a guild group, it was not a bunch of randoms. It was also HC, so if you die, you die and lose 150 hours.
You can see the smirk if his face while he was running away after deciding they were not worth his effort. You can see he loved the godlike feeling of having that power in his hands
@@jocampe62 Content guild. So essentially randoms. It's not much darker than panic and not willing to risk his 150 hours for the other folks 150 hours. He's being selfish but your playing it as much more melodramatic than it is. All 4 of those other folks just got a massive clout bump that is worth more than 150 hours of their time. Pirate could have and maybe still can salvage it if he does a sincere apology with not 'buts'. It's not that serious.
@kingmanic being evil while in a call with other streamers is nasty. The fact that they also got more attention is out of scope here.
Pirate has a very uncontrolled ego and that is well supported by all the evidence that came out in vods. Inform urself better here
@@jocampe62 that's a melodramatic take. Being bad at a game, being selfish, and then acting egotistical is just being shitty. We can call him evil when he gets caught grooming a minor.
@ hm you keep trying to downplay this to avoid dialog over the situation itself. thats not very productive. thats not far from Pirate's echo chamber strategy
if grubby the nice soft spoken guy calls it a roach out, it do be a roach out mon
I saw Asmongolds break down of this. Pirate did nothing wrong. 13:03 To be fair, he didn't abandon them. They kind of were abandoning him by trying to say, hey, let's just stay here and die. And again, at this moment, he had one hit point laft. That's not very far between him and death. The bottom line is that Pirate is the only one who did the right thing. He's the only one who stayed composed and executed the plan. The way it was put was, if he were in 100% full condition, he could have gone in there and used everything he had and it wouldn't have made a difference.
I think part of the issue is that Thor has always presented himself as someone really wise who has transcended ego, so seeing him act in ways that really aren't in line with that image is particularly damaging to his brand. Ideally he'd take some time to reflect, but then you've got all these people coming in with death threats and other really extreme, insane, disproportionate bullshit, and that makes it hard to really consider your own bad behaviour because of course you feel like the victim when you are genuinely being attacked like that.
Honestly if thor wouldve just said "My bad, you said run so i ran and read twitch chat. Didnt realize you needed my help until it was too late." Then like okay understandable. Dying for your ego is where it always gets too dramatic.
He doesn't NEED to explain himself or apologize though. Everyone who thinks he does needs to join the real world out here. He ran when it was called ('Run! Run Run Run!' to be precise), it was everyone else's fault for stopping when the idiot who panic yelled "Run!", stopped and said "this might be salvageable" instead of just running. Maybe the tank would have died, but it was his very big mistake that got them in the mess to begin with. I'm certainly not turning around and possibly getting myself killed because 3 out of 4 other players are so stupid.
The reason many speculate he was kicked was when he started threatening other streamers/content makes/fellow guild members with reports and bans, including utilizing his old connections in Blizzard, if they kept talking about it or their random unhinged viewers continued raiding his channel.
Streamers were urging on harassment and death threats and they should be reported for breaking tearms of service and fueling hatered and harassment with in their community, platforms and game.
@@F4R207You should name them. Send the vod and the timestamp.
Which streamers were urging on harassment and death threats? Which stream did they say it in and at what time in the vod? And what exactly did they say?
@@F4R207Seen 0 evidence of this. You got any?
@@F4R207allegedly, according to piroach software right
@@F4R207 report streamer, block other in social media and ban viewer in his own channel is all fair things to do. Hate raiding is always bad and should be punished but streamer that just talk about it and criticizing him also should not be silenced.
it's refreshing to see more people breaking it down and showing the full context without jumping on a hate train
I wouldn't have guessed that toast would cover this
300 hours is bad, but imagine having to do it as a healer.
Finally a detailed and easy to understand explanation (with the gameplay footage in question included) of the drama for people who has never played this game. Thank you Toast.
Closest Ive gotten to a game like this is smite so maybe my understanding is shot but if ur a mage just distance yourself far enough to be safe but send ranged abilities to support the front line. No real reason to fully leave the group.
That already makes you better than him because that's kind of what you do in this game too (though you can get in close for nova and then blink out super easy). I played wow for a few years when it released in 2004 (then a few times after each expansions and each time when nostalgia became too hard to ignore)
(Explanation for those who don't understand)
The only reason the pull was bad to begin with, was Ozy fought on the slope, and Snupy wasn't paying attention and went behind the ogre for his "backstab" as a catform druid, aggroing a second pack. If they kite backwards and fight 2 packs, they are fine! But they stay on the slope, now it's 2 groups of enemies AND A BOSS.
They already had to run out of the same dungeon once before from a fuckup. Pirate normally doesn't play with these players and has no faith in their ability after their repeated fuck-ups.
Now, it's easy to say after the fact that pirate was mostly in the wrong.
But Ozy fucked up positioning.
at 4:40 Snupy pulls a THIRD pack and he also cancelled his heal.
This causes Sara's heal to build threat on the third pack (healing or damaging things makes enemies want to kill you.)
Yamato calling sara to turn, and snupy cancelling his heals and buttpulling is1000000000000000000000000000000000000% why Sara died.
And Snupy dies because he doesn't know how to run without turning his back at the end, and he had charge, and pummel, and other tools. If Snupy was a better player he also would've lived.
Pirate was not willing to "play the hero" for a bunch of idiots. And the internet is offended by his ego. I would've done the same in Pirate's place. Sara is the only one who did nothing wrong in terms of gameplay, and while Pirate did something morally wrong, he also made no in game mistakes while the other 3 did.
The first pull that went wrong was actually his fault lol. He aggro'd a boss/pack the group wasn't expecting and then roached out while his team had to deal with it. Subtle foreshadowing, you might say.
And don't forget when he wiped his raid in AoC, said it was an unforgivable mistake and that whoever did it was going to get kicked from the raid, only to realize it was his own stupid self who caused the wipe. Guess what he did? roached right out of responsibility and blamed the tanks instead LOL. This guy's an idiot.
Toast with the most logical take on this one, and I think he hit the nail on the head regarding the psychology of flight or fight during intense situations. Thanks for the video!
I love this drama, it feels like early 2002, when drama didn't mean someone is doing a crypto scam or having any other illegal enterprise, takes photos of dead people or something like that.
23:12 The term "roaching" actually comes from the critter roaches inside of dungeons getting hit with passive AoE that would agro packs nearby and cause the group to 'roach out', meaning escape by any means.
Tl;dr: The dude's got a thousand ways of getting his mana back, but he books it instead. Now he's kicking/blocking everyone that says anything about mana or mages within his vicinity, claiming he was right to run instead of help the group kite.
To be honest, this felt like a bit until it continued well past the DM incident.
there was a video where he was boasting that if he was at that particular situation he would have saved the group as the mage in the group and criticized someone on their poor gameplay but when it came down to it he flaked and saved himself and said he did nothing wrong. His fight and flight response was at the start up to the ramp when he get near the exit and stopped there was no longer a fight or flight there it was all excuse and ego. so i disagree in some of your analysis. Also a call to run means that we try to exit as group not run at a straight line to the exit and every man for himself. But all that didnt matter it was after and how he handled the aftermath was what people got disgusted.
just in case you dont know. this is their second time failing the raid and analyze the first one to know who is griefing to understand pirate perspective
@@malvarez3611Pirate was the one that pulled the extra pack the first time....
@@malvarez3611 it was never about the fails of the raid its after and how he handled it. i have no horse in this race but the way he reacted seems childish to me thats all. I dont know the guy nor any of these creators, i just saw this through asmond and even though i like asmond i dont agree with some of his take.
@@vahngaming7107 what if that's the way his tone is.
the drama escalates because those idiots are crying for help and looking for allies like a fking snake that their stupidness are not their stupidness alone.
@@malvarez3611 First one was on Pirate. Something like this happened in Ashes of Creation. Look that last one up, it's pretty funny how Thor handled that one. Hint: it wasn't pretty, surprising, I know
PirateSoftware was NOT a developer at blizzard... PirateSoftware worked in QA as a Game Tester. He never saw the code of WoW he never touched the code of WoW.... he does claim to be many things, among them a godly mage and basically in charge of Blizzard... he is infact neither of those.
A person like that doesn't make it to week two of a zombie apocalypse, and the zombies aren't the reason why.
I was in a casual raid guild as a mage. Our GM taught us basic gameplay. One of those was downgrading spells like blizzard to minimize mana consumption while getting the same effect (slow). Another was mana pots/mana gem/robe of arcana/etc to replenish mana when it's low in combat.
But isnt what his or a mage purpose in that raid? To dps, control and help save the raid team in fcked up situations? He also mentioned this during one of his clips ive seen.
Yeah exactly lol, hes constantly talking about how important mages are in these situations and criticising other mages but when he was put on the spot he completely roached out.
But that wasn't the call. Panicking, caller said run at least 4 times. After they already had to do a full retreat because thor pulled mobs on their first attempt (after someone else decided to try and 'skip' some enemies). The seconds attempt the boss was pulled before anyone was even ready to fight it... Should have been an immediate 'Run'... Not 'run... oh wait, maybe do X, or no do Y, oh, why aren't you doing Z?'.
I gotta be honest I kinda forgot about Mr. Toast since I stopped playing hearthstone back in the day. It's really cool this video came up on my algorithm, I'll have to see what you've been up to.
You miss the “Among Us Guy” period?!?!?😂
Most people don't realize they are all starting on Book 7 of the Pathetic Pirate Software Saga........... this guy has been doing this kinda shite for decades -
Books 1-3 : MALDAVIUS FIGTREE - SECOND LIFE - He had a furry digital custume business in the weirdo game Second Life where there was accusations of inappropriate digital furry art commissioned by Thor , from a minor.
Books 4-6 : MALDAVIUS - EVE ONLINE - Became CEO of a giant zerg corp n lived in newly launched series of system called Pochven - Used unreported new Pochven exploits to make lucrative ingame money and his unchecked ego spiralled out of control which led to him talking tough to the wrong group of doods , thinking his zerg and pochvens mechanics would save him in a game of talent . The Eve Online game devs patched Pochvens exploits in the midsts of us removing him from his home...... which to Pirate could only mean one thing.... the devs were conspiring against him and were amongst our ranks lmao !!!! After no one voted for him to be a CSM member again , his ego got extra hurt n it was the final straw.
So instead of fight , he told all his zerg people to blow up all their guilds assets and quit the game along side him cuz the devs are corrupt.
He then became Pirate Software ........ told all his new fans his Eve lies lmao
The day I found out he was actually MALDAVIUS .... blew my fuqk'n mind people !
I gotta check that EVE Online story, this looks crazy 😂
Edit: just did a brief google search... IT IS TRUE LMAO
@@tablettablete186 Here's more insight : Who it was that first kicked it off im not too sure , but an assortment of some very good wormhole killers from various alliances got together really started messing Maldavius's shite up n some of the big boys just dog piled on top when Pochven was burning
His TRIGLAVIAN wide alliance was also simultaneously falling apart roughly around the same time and they were also attacking his group . Even more splintered when he gave the call to self destruct everything lmao . The only reason he did that was because CCP was removing the trig standing requirements for using the gates deeper into pochven .... So his terrible zerg fleet could no longer hide behind silly gate mechanics -
To Pirate that was his scapegoat to full blown game roach . A Blizzard dev can't possibly lose at Eve Online ahaha
He cried conspiracy and the gate change coinciding with the attacks meant some of us had to be working for CCP and this is what he told his million of new followers after becoming Pirate Software years later ........ the guy is just insufferable.
So I'm not too sure who started it but I guess in the end , none of that really matters when we had such a glorious reward of him leaving for good
Now , we all get to enjoy THIS
@masserphi2534 This such a crazy situation. I find it even crazier is that I heard about this at the time, but I wasn't a EVE player nor did I know Thor.
Thanks for the writeup and for some reason I can't see it in normal comments, only from the notification
@@tablettablete186 Yeh alot of comments talking about it have been mysteriously deleted
There was also his terrible take on stop killing games where is only used strawmen and said blatant untrue things about EU law, citizens initiatives and the goals of the initiative
plus the fact he bans anyone that even slightly disagrees with him from chatting/commenting
to me the amateur is the one that called run but changes mind and demands to hold the line.. unless they talked about having a code word, run means run away. you cannot demand others your definition unless it was pre planned.
Everyone : Why you running this is salvageable, we got this.
Pirate : Looks at chat, laughs, and kept running away.
The rogue's tone was bad because the mage roached the fk out and tried to gaslight everyone about mana, when rank 1 blizz costs nothing.
But WAS it rank 1? Because there are a lot of people calling out Blizz 3. What's your proof it's only rank 1? Just curious.
@cloudsteele1989 I'm saying low rank blizzard costs nothing and he cast the max rank instead, complaining about mana. And even if you have very little left, you can still cast low rank blizzard
Toast has incredibly high EQ and it shows on this.
Pirate does not have high EQ, which shows on the clips
You mean IQ? Or EQ mean something else?
@tandraarisandi6680 EQ is similar to IQ, but EQ is about emotions, empathy, and understanding social interactions.
Someone with low EQ means they don't really navigate social interactions well, generally are selfish, and are inconsiderate of others.
High EQ means that they're understanding of social interactions, can communicate effectively and efficiently, and are generally considerate of other's emotions/viewpoints
@@tandraarisandi6680 You don't know what EQ is? Damn...
Anyway, IQ means big number = big smart. EQ means big number = good with people. I is for intelligence and E is for emotional.
@@Jay9966 thats not as popular of a term as you think it is, of course they wouldnt know what EQ was. i didnt until you just explained it
@@Jay9966 then i guess you don't have a high EQ because that isn't how you talk to people. It was unnecessary rude
Just one more thing. There's a clip of him talking up how good he is at mage and being "physically ill" watching another mage mess up in a dungeon and not save a group. Just a guy with a massive ego who can never admit to doing something wrong and is gaslighting everyone about what happened and skewing the facts.
His tweet glossed over many details.
As a tank main, I think it's also partly the tanks fault for doing a bad pull. When in Dire Maul, it's important to utilize CC's before pulling. I saw no polymorph from the mage nor sap from the rogue. The druid could've used roots on one of the dogs as well.
Just saw all of this today and was interested enough to look in. As a healer main in most MMO's, the Rogue was the main reason the healer died as well. He forced the healer to heal, especially a potentially inexperienced healer who folded under pressure, by yelling 'heal him' which drew the healer closer to the mobs by the mess of it and with aggro on the mobs not controlled, allowed aggro to build over this section of the video to go on the healer. Yes Pirate not helping exasperated this and made the situation worse but the Rogue caused confusion with Run then this is salvageable which means we can stand and fight it out basically then causing a distraction by drawing attention to where Pirate is. Honestly the Rogue is just as much at fault as Pirate when they did nothing as well and just sat there watching the deaths happen with being the confusing shot caller. Sure he apologized slightly unlike Pirate but Rogue's are like the second safest class at that level so to me, both the rogue and pirate are the most "at fault" in this situation.
Healer probably misplayed once during this with not fearing while on elevated area of the map as i don't believe in DM that they will climb the walls in pathing but its been forever since I have played Wow.
I mean shit happens, people make mistakes. Especially when there are high stakes, and high tension situations. No reason to give hate as a back seat gamer behind a keyboard. Clickedy clacking your way into bullying someone.
You damn well know pirate aint the friend you want in an IRL emergency situation.
@@asiangamer88111 Still revealed his true character
He acts like someone that’s been carried in game. Talks a lot about his time and accomplishments, but not realizing how little, oh shit moments he’s had to deal with.
IMO if Pirate is kicked from the guild the rouge also needs to be kicked, he had bad coms, didn't use his util effectively, and only heightened tensions after the dungeon
Pirate was NOT kicked for playing badly. That was never the point.
People got angry cause he denied any acountability. And than he said he would get all streamers, that make videos or contend about this, get banned from twitch.
That made a lot of streamers in Onlyfangs realy unhappy, and that is what got him kicked.
He wasn't kicked for his gameplay, he was kicked for being a narcissist. I'm just glad everyone can see it now
@@christophroth373
Nice misinformation.
Considering if you did your research, Sodapopin literally had his Viewers attempt to view bot PirateSoftware to get HIS channel banned.
He never threatened any streamers with Twitch bans, more so the Viewers they sent over to him, to Berate him over a 20 year old Fantasy Video game meant for fun, not content farming. (This is NOT the first time they kicked a recently added streamer to that guild)
All the while sending Hate raids, where their viewers would spam racial slurs, death threats, and other Vile rhetoric.
Check yourself please. You're stanning, without being Objective or Factual.
@@jkjkrandomsame... I have no idea why someone who hasn't released a 2D gamemaker game after 7 years is lauded as the best game developer on twitch... That's just sad and he only got there through blatant manipulation of the algorithm and telling everyone sweet nothings
@@Freek314 I did look up to the guy but yeah, proofs in the pudding ain't it.
Hmm seeing this pov, i heard communication btwn the 3 players. But at pirate's pov, i could barely hear anything as their audio kept cutting and it made them sound more panicked with the audio cutting in and out.
This is a communication issue. A simple, i need help! We can do this! Come back! We got this! Is all it takes. Their panic made him panic and the lets run part was the first thing he did. He didnt hear them communicating of their fight with the monsters.
But he made a poor judgement call when he kept turning around to see behind him and there is no one there. When u r in a group fighting in a dungeon, it is never a good idea to split away. Seeing a huge gap and no ones there, plus the mage is not in danger, he should go back. Idk if he backed off bc of his no mana means no helping, but arent there items that dont require mana that he could use? Im not a wow player, but most games have health bar, mana/stamina bar, and inventory. There had to be something. Or maybe the mage could be a look out and try to help give commands. Something. But a huge gap made his teammates panic. He can keep a distance to avoid losing his character, but disappearing is a no go.
When u work or do a project, just being present is good for the team. Bailing out without anyone noticing is rude when they need u. Even if u finished a part of ur project, just being present to give some presence of support can keep them calm
The same type of drama I used to see while playing in guilds when I was a kid but it seems nothing changes and these kids grew up to repeat the same drama. Some people just need to grow up.
I feel like people are missing critical context on piratesoftware's personallity in general here. The entire WoW thing is not the thing that started the fire. It added onto the huge forrest fire.
31:30
Leaving with a call to leave is the worst thing you have ever seen? Not need rolls, not gear stealing, not leaving with no call, not pulling when people arent ready, not pvp stream sniping. No, a man running when told to run.
Liar at best
the roach king has sent out his roach minions lol
@@twigsno You and your 'roach' b/s. It's not even slightly clever or funny. It's just cringey. The roaches are all the people sending death threats and piling on harassment campaigns. Come on, just try to justify this REAL FUCKING LIFE behavior, that came about a disagreement in a fucking video game. No, Y'all are actually literal garbage, the stuff roaches eat and shit out.
Genuinely the best explanation I’ve seen for this topic.
Could pirate have helped more people if he played better? Absolutely
Is pirate a bad person because he panicked and didn’t use his spells properly? No
Is pirate a bad person because he has absolutely zero empathy for anyone involved? Absolutely.
Nah the others sound like absolute twats, you can tell he was getting sick of their crybaby shit for a while. They deserve no empathy.
Sprained ankle is justification to leave you behind in a zombo apoco
As a gamer who never played wow, I really appreciate the play by play because i didn't really get the details of what happened until now
Nah, this guy IS NOT a decent arbitor.
Especially when he considers Intentionally Losing, as a form of being "a Real man"
The coms weren't very clear with them only calling to turn back after pirate retreated, if he turned back there was a chance he ended up as the healer, and as one of the main enchanters for the guild he decided to not take that risk. With people being mad at him for saying he "played perfectly", he never said that, he just claims he wasn't the reason they died and it was not his fault (several mistakes were made by other players: pulling mobs, bad comms, etc). He has admitted they all played poorly, but he's standing his ground and saying he's not to blame. Overall his tones were harsh/aggressive and he did save himself but I can't blame him and the hate is a WAY overreaction.
This 100%. I kept thinking that they all said to run, and then Yamato calls out Pirate for running. By that point he was oom. At no point did the party actually say "stop running" until it was already a clusterfuck.
I will admit though, I don't know much about classic nor anything outside what I see right there. I just feel the flak he received was blown way out of proportion too.
@@Slyrdemon he was blinking away and then they turned back on it, its insane
I think the comment about him being a main enchanter was the final nail in the coffin tbh, his role as a mage is critical for these situations where you have to run and reset so I can understand why people would feel uneasy about playing with a mage with that mindset. He lost a lot of trust with that comment, real eye opener to how he thinks. The mana shouldn’t have been an issue when he had CDs and all that was needed was rank 1 blizzards and nova.
It's because it's not just, this he's always been a scummy person, theres some other comments around with more details but it's a consistent pattern
Playing terribly is forgivable but acting like you did everything correctly when you barely did anything at all deserves all the hate
Did Pirates ever said "im sorry for my mistake"?? Like i just watched this 35 minutes video and i didn't catch him saying any of that, he only said "WE ALL makes mistake".
Nope, he never apologized. Insane ego from pirate and 0 accountability.
Yes, he admitted that he just like everyone in that group could have tried to save people with quite the risk to his character (there were no trust left at that time in the run, so many extra pulls and the healer dies, and Yamato, doing nothing but being toxic, was ruining Oz attempts to establish whatever little there were left), but at that time there was so much hate from streamers and their fans that he was getting death threats and swating atempts.
@@F4R207he lied
His mistake didnt cause peoples live to be put in danger
He misplayed which could have saved more people from the danger their decisions put them in
Those are similar but arent the same.
He’s done nothing but double down or deflect
I remember playing mmorpgs back in 2010 as a dps mage/cc role.
If we ran, I’d often be the second last in the group because the usual setup only had one cc role, and I’d try help my group.
Now, not every escape went successfully and I’ve died myself.
BUT, playing with a group you don’t feel confident in and a boss encounter going wrong, I might have dipped as well as the probability for pulling patrols would be a high likelihood.
Thor wasnt interested in carrying trolls. Everyone could have survived but they chose to yap