Again, anyone who is a member of the Church of Christ logically understands that Christ is the head, the founder , and bridegroom of the Church. However, the confusion is not about Christ. Talk to those ministers down in Georgia where you are . Talk to Creflo Dollar, or Charles Stanley. these denominational preachers could in fact tell you about the Christ and not miss a beat theologically. However, talk with them about the Church that Christ established, and see what opens up. So the Church is not preached to as much as it is in Churches of Christ to suggest that we R more important than the Christ (Obserd). God forbid, and yes we should be reminded of this, as with all preaching. But, in preaching and teaching to people that we come in contact with. They will tell you themselves that they believe that there is no salvation without Christ. People in the denominational world, or those who claim to have no religious affiliation will tell you this. But, they don't understand God's plan in regards to his people, now just look at the world and the religious error concerning who and what his people R.
This was a confusing sermon. First he said that we are saved by grace and that we didn't earn salvation. Then he said that Jesus acquitted us of our sins on Calvary. Then at the end of the sermon, he said we become saved after water baptism.I don't get it. If I have to be baptized in order to receive salvation, then I will have earned it by having myself baptized in water. But if Jesus already took care of my sins at Calvary, why must I get baptized in order to get what I have already gotten. If God's grace really mean unearned salvation, why do I need to earn it by way of water baptism?I'm confused six ways to Sunday.
+pompasduris Good observation. Yes I can see where you say it was confusing but understandable. There was in my opinion a very subtle theological disconnect between grace, human merit and the appropriation of Christ's finished work. The disconnect seemed to trying to stay consistent with the integrity of grace being devoid of human merit. And what makes it more muddled is that God gives us commands that are associated with salvation. One way to fix the apparent inconsistency is to say those things God gives us to do which is associated with salvation does not have human merit. The sactions or the doings we do towards obedience is not considered human merit it is simply a matter of following what God tells us in appropriating the merits of Christ. The problem with this in my opinion is that it does not take in account for good works. Obedience to God is a good work that comes from us and is therefore our own righteousness. But as he has correctly alluded to; we are not saved by our own righteousness nor can we be for even our righteousness is tainted with sin. To be consistent with being saved solely on the basis of another's righteousness and be consistent with salvation by grace there must be another way of appropriating the merits of Christ in which our works or good works of righteousness which we must have is not the basis of justification. That is to say there must be another basis by which we appropriate Christ's earned justification which is devoid of works, righteous and merit. Paul calls this way justification by faith. The way God has fixed it that we appropriate Christ devoid of human merit is on the basis of faith. The following are a few texts which in no way is intended to prove my assertions but to only illustrate what I think the bible is replete in teaching. Rom 4:2-3 "2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" . Rom 4:5-6 "5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works (ie. law of commands). Rom 11:6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Rom 5:1-2 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God". ) Rom 11:6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Rom 9:30-32 "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone". Eph 2:8-10 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Rom 3:26-28 "26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law". It seems to me, notwithstanding the command of baptism or any other divine commands we are given associated with salvation, we are nevertheless justification solely on the basis of faith in Christ in all he is and all his claims on our life.
+pompasduris Because of the free gift of salvation, I obey. Baptism is a part of the obeying. Baptism does not earn me salvation, it allows me access to it.
+T.E.D. How does water baptism allow you access to salvation? That is impossible. According to the Bible, a person already has salvation at the moment of being justified. Water baptism happens after justification. According to the Bible, a person is justified by faith (of God) Romans 5:1. AFTER he is justified he lives in obedience. Water baptism is AFTER obedience, not before.
+pompasduris Friend for the Christian, baptism is where obedience begins. Look at the first part of Romans 6. 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Before baptism there is no new life. Ephesians 1. In love 5 [e]He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will. We are adopted sons. John 3. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is how we are adopted into the family of God. We receive his spirit and become his spiritual heirs.
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
man I really enjoyed this lecturship! What a word
Again, anyone who is a member of the Church of Christ logically understands that Christ is the head, the founder , and bridegroom of the Church. However, the confusion is not about Christ. Talk to those ministers down in Georgia where you are . Talk to Creflo Dollar, or Charles Stanley. these denominational preachers could in fact tell you about the Christ and not miss a beat theologically. However, talk with them about the Church that Christ established, and see what opens up. So the Church is not preached to as much as it is in Churches of Christ to suggest that we R more important than the Christ (Obserd). God forbid, and yes we should be reminded of this, as with all preaching. But, in preaching and teaching to people that we come in contact with. They will tell you themselves that they believe that there is no salvation without Christ. People in the denominational world, or those who claim to have no religious affiliation will tell you this. But, they don't understand God's plan in regards to his people, now just look at the world and the religious error concerning who and what his people R.
This was a confusing sermon. First he said that we are saved by grace and that we didn't earn salvation. Then he said that Jesus acquitted us of our sins on Calvary. Then at the end of the sermon, he said we become saved after water baptism.I don't get it. If I have to be baptized in order to receive salvation, then I will have earned it by having myself baptized in water. But if Jesus already took care of my sins at Calvary, why must I get baptized in order to get what I have already gotten. If God's grace really mean unearned salvation, why do I need to earn it by way of water baptism?I'm confused six ways to Sunday.
+pompasduris Good observation. Yes I can see where you say it was confusing but understandable. There was in my opinion a very subtle theological disconnect between grace, human merit and the appropriation of Christ's finished work. The disconnect seemed to trying to stay consistent with the integrity of grace being devoid of human merit. And what makes it more muddled is that God gives us commands that are associated with salvation.
One way to fix the apparent inconsistency is to say those things God gives us to do which is associated with salvation does not have human merit. The sactions or the doings we do towards obedience is not considered human merit it is simply a matter of following what God tells us in appropriating the merits of Christ.
The problem with this in my opinion is that it does not take in account for good works. Obedience to God is a good work that comes from us and is therefore our own righteousness. But as he has correctly alluded to; we are not saved by our own righteousness nor can we be for even our righteousness is tainted with sin. To be consistent with being saved solely on the basis of another's righteousness and be consistent with salvation by grace there must be another way of appropriating the merits of Christ in which our works or good works of righteousness which we must have is not the basis of justification. That is to say there must be another basis by which we appropriate Christ's earned justification which is devoid of works, righteous and merit. Paul calls this way justification by faith. The way God has fixed it that we appropriate Christ devoid of human merit is on the basis of faith. The following are a few texts which in no way is intended to prove my assertions but to only illustrate what I think the bible is replete in teaching.
Rom 4:2-3 "2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" .
Rom 4:5-6 "5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works (ie. law of commands).
Rom 11:6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 5:1-2 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God". )
Rom 11:6 "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 9:30-32 "What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone".
Eph 2:8-10 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom 3:26-28 "26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law".
It seems to me, notwithstanding the command of baptism or any other divine commands we are given associated with salvation, we are nevertheless justification solely on the basis of faith in Christ in all he is and all his claims on our life.
pls feel free to watch our classes.
+pompasduris Because of the free gift of salvation, I obey. Baptism is a part of the obeying. Baptism does not earn me salvation, it allows me access to it.
+T.E.D. How does water baptism allow you access to salvation? That is impossible. According to the Bible, a person already has salvation at the moment of being justified. Water baptism happens after justification. According to the Bible, a person is justified by faith (of God) Romans 5:1. AFTER he is justified he lives in obedience. Water baptism is AFTER obedience, not before.
+pompasduris Friend for the Christian, baptism is where obedience begins. Look at the first part of Romans 6. 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Before baptism there is no new life.
Ephesians 1. In love 5 [e]He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will.
We are adopted sons.
John 3. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism is how we are adopted into the family of God. We receive his spirit and become his spiritual heirs.
YAAAAASSSS!!! Orpheus preached that!!!! May GOD continue to him and all GOSPEL PREACHERS across the brotherhood to preach GOD'S WORD!!!