Wokeness Has Gone Too Far | CHANGE MY MIND ►th-cam.com/video/y2PJ7wYU_8Y/w-d-xo.html Change My Mind College Debates (PLAYLIST) ►th-cam.com/play/PLFs19LVskfNxvHs5a0-v6YNPi-iFspODf.html
As a gay guy, thank you for also speaking up for trans people. I woke up to this and it's disgusting and I'm not even a liberal. I don't lean either side. Right or Left but yes conservatives are very homophobic and transphobic. I didn't see it going this far. This is sick. Again, thank you Destiny. Saving lives
Student 1 shouldve brought an example of healing crystals moms, sure we all can agree that they do harm to their child with their pseudo science but is it because they hate their child and want them to suffer? Or is it bevause they're stupid and dont know how to properly help a person? I mean remember when FOX NEWS of all places showed pro trans footage with specifically trans kid? I think its fair to say that atleast SOME conservatives genuinely care about ppl but think banning things is a way to minimize the harm
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you assume trans is something you are...Its not..Its something you do based upon multiple different mental disorders..Such as Gender dysphoria, autogynephilic, incel depression, autism, or simply being told its a choice. The main problem is all rational thought goes out the window with this issue. At no time in history has it ever been considered a good thing to enable a mental disorder..You wouldnt do it with anorexia, binge eating, drug use, schizophrenia, etc....Because its always been the case that when you enable a mental it affirms the person in the short term, but in the long term only hurts them. This happens to the extreme when enabling transgender choices which causes in the long term a 20x higher self deletion rate, multiple times the likelihood of drug addiction as well as other mental disorders..And that is just the mental side of it. Once you get to the drugs the amount of medical side effects are too long to list here...And then if you go to surgery it gets even worse...Now if it was just adults that would be sad..But the problem is telling small children that they can simply choose to be a boy or girls when these kids are at the same age that they believe in imaginary friends, putting them down a path of all the problems listed above..There have always been mental disorders, but transgenderism is the only one that is promoted as a choice to the youngest and weakest among us.
@@ezekiel5687 The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you assume trans is something you are...Its not..Its something you do based upon multiple different mental disorders..Such as Gender dysphoria, autogynephilic, incel depression, autism, or simply being told its a choice. The main problem is all rational thought goes out the window with this issue. At no time in history has it ever been considered a good thing to enable a mental disorder..You wouldnt do it with anorexia, binge eating, drug use, schizophrenia, etc....Because its always been the case that when you enable a mental it affirms the person in the short term, but in the long term only hurts them. This happens to the extreme when enabling transgender choices which causes in the long term a 20x higher self deletion rate, multiple times the likelihood of drug addiction as well as other mental disorders..And that is just the mental side of it. Once you get to the drugs the amount of medical side effects are too long to list here...And then if you go to surgery it gets even worse...Now if it was just adults that would be sad..But the problem is telling small children that they can simply choose to be a boy or girls when these kids are at the same age that they believe in imaginary friends, putting them down a path of all the problems listed above..There have always been mental disorders, but transgenderism is the only one that is promoted as a choice to the youngest and weakest among us.
@ezekiel, would you like me to post some links showing that parents have discovered paedophilic books that are being shown in schools because of The "acceptance" of this nonsense?
@@impastorr1354 Better microphone that doesn’t pick up any excessive background noise (won’t doubt that there’s some post editing too), very good framing and camera shots, and just overall higher quality equipment. Just look at the one that destiny did a year ago
to be fair, he had to “cope” because an asinine comparison was made. comparing a proven, measurable physiological issue with a proven, non-harmful intervention to a non-proven psychological issue with an inconsistent and physiologically damaging “solution” is nonsensical
@@DavidJones-ot8qu "non-proven psychological issue with an inconsistent and physiologically 'damaging' solution" How are you so unbiased my guy? It's amazing
First guy is so caught up on semantics that it defeats any point he was trying to make. Hate, by definition, is just an intense dislike. This "intent to harm" definition is his own definition of hate that he is stumbling over.
Destiny was very wrong on this. Why is destiny using broad definition for hate? With his definition you can clearly make an argument that 'trans woman hate cis woman' or that " conservatives hates all women" for abortion issues. Heck anybody that doesn't support lgbtq now apparently 'hates' them. That don't makes sense and destiny is fishing for shit here.
Not really, it was a crowderesque clickbait prompt that openly invites semantic discussion. It's not like Destiny was using the dictionary definition of the word himself, but rather using a weaker definition that he just came up with. First guy wasn't the most well spoken, but he was certainly right to try and get destiny to clarify his position and push him on his provided definitions of words instead of just accepting them as is.
The only sane solution is to allow trans affirming care to people over whatever the age of censent is in your area. If you don't hold the capacity to decide whether or not you actually want a dick inside you, or yours inside someone else, than surely you also don't possess the capacity to decide you no longer want your dick.
These are great. I love how (for the most part) respectful these debates/conversations are; each person is clearly listening to the other debater, as opposed to multiple people screaming over each other on Discord.
Here is a total destruction of the argument about heteronormativity. We NEED it. It's hard enough to justify any form of medication or surgery for a child diagnosed with gender dysphoria already. Removing gender stereotypes and roles destroys the anchor that informs you about the people who are outside the norm. How can a kid even begin to navigate this shit show without knowing what's the norm, what's common for the majority of people? How can anyone begin to understand if they are trans if they don't know about heterosexuality and homosexuality and how being trans is different from that? We are talking about children! They never even had time to navigate their own sexuality. How many kids who would end up gay will have to be butchered before people take this seriously? A kid can't even tell if they are gay or not before having enough interactions.
Great content. I kept wishing someone would take Destiny to the debate deep end but have to remember he's just politely engaging college students and getting a gauge of the social atmosphere on campus. But it's always great to hear young moderate perspectives.
I think the problem with this statement is that your average conservative supports access to gender affirming care at 18, so their stance is more that kids cant make these decisions, you can disagree but thats not hate
@@louisadway1856 I get that, but at the same exact time, high doses of testosterone are pretty damn dangerous and have poor longevity outcomes. And bottom surgery is incredibly crude from everything I've heard. I think the only truly really good treatment is acceptance
@@metalmythology6282 I don't agree. The positive outcomes for gender affirming care including surgery is higher than most other selective medical procedures. Additionally rates of depression, anxiety and suicidal attempts/ideation are greatly reduced with gender affirming care. I'm curious, what levels of testosterone are minors being prescribed and at what age? From my understanding, young children only socially transition initially and then once the child reaches the age of puberty is prescribed puberty blockers. This is all laid out in a treatment plan with parents, the child, their medical doctors and their therapists as a comprehensive plan.
@@louisadway1856 well yeah but gender affirming care implies cross sex hormones, the blockers are just to give time to make decisions, there are reasons we don't allow athletes to take test legally. I think we should look into how far social acceptance goes to lower sudoku rates by itself. In afraid that half of these trans men are gonna have serious cardiovascular issues
Destiny would likely (extremely high chance) beat against Matt Walsh but Matt Walsh would win the overall argument. The Trans issue is stupidly fucking iffy and so much SUS energy in it.
@Sunny Sangha I think they both would agree with a lot, I've heard destiny say there is a lot in the trans issues that are ridiculous. It's hard to say who would win overall as I'm very biased towards the left side in treating trans people with dignity and respect, so I would already be in agreement and I can't imagine agreeing with Matt that we should be treating trans people with no respect.
Adults can do what they want with their own bodies, that’s a given. But when it comes to children taking the decision to make permanent body modifications to themselves, NO!
Destiny seems to say conflicting things about trans sports. Sometimes he says that trans sports bans should only exist in professional and college sports. Here he says he agrees completely with banning trans women from all cis women's sports.
You definitely can bro like some people just have opinions on things they haven't really thought about much and you just show a small flaw in their thinking like- oh haven't thought of that. Imagine if this were true, when the hell would anyone ever convert from a religion they were born into a family of and believed strongly in their youth?
I reasoned a dude who fully believed in the moon landing hoax who was alive *for the moon landing*. You can't reason someone out of unreason, but you can reason them into reason, even though they might even get THERE unreasonably lmao
Disagree on the affirming care point. Simply put, Affirmative care is not used in anything but Gender modification. ADHD is something that is observed by a psychiatrist, and there are a battery of tests psychiatrist use to diagnose it. It is NOT diagnosed via affirmation. That would be incredibly stupid.
I don't get why it's controversial to say that I care about autistic people but also want to eradicate autism. Having some sort of background in genetics, I'm intrigued to have a scientific discussion on this.
Surely as someone with a background in genetics, you understand that "autism" covers a pretty wide range of behaviors, so where would you draw the line at which types of autism ought to be eliminated?
@Cherse Gems Well, perhaps until the point where the disorder causes significant damage/disruption to the lives of the individual and those closest to them. But the greater problem, as you've pointed out, is singling out the cause if you're thinking about targeting it from a gene therapy or even molecular functioning perspective. And yes, as a broad spectrum disorder due to no one specific detected cause, it really isn't too feasible atm.
@Jordan White If there were avenues to rid its incidence (not prevalence xD, we're speaking epidemiology, not purging), that could be a potential start. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but I mostly view it as a neuronal disorder similar to other neurodegenerative diseases.
There's no one way to be conservative. Some will be more libertarian and some will be very rigid in their expectations for people and society. When it comes to kids I think many conservatives take the view that kids don't yet know who they are or what they want beyond immediate gratification and should hold out on medical interventions.
I don't hate them. I just don't think it is a good thing that should be promoted or encouraged. It should be treated by a psychologist privately for each individual.
@@mikemills326 no, I don't think we should ban media from being allowed to show trans people, or even celebrate them. When I say promotion, I mean having educators telling children that transgenderism is okay. It's like tellings kids that schizophrenia is okay.. like yes, schizos exist and should be treated with dignity, but it's not 'okay'. It's a debilitating mental disease and we should feel sympathy for sufferers, but not encourage people to identify with them or try to be like them. In fact, teachers in public school shouldn't discuss schizophrenia at all with their students unless it's a psych class. I feel the same about transgenderism.
Destiny keeps falling back on "wanting more studies and data." I don't even think we have data that transitioning HELPS the person in any way, or that transitioning is beneficial in the first.... Take Rosie ODonnell, she admits she was a tomboy and would likely have been pushed to transition nowadays, and she likely sides more with conservatives on this... So what data do we even have to show that puberty blocking or body modification DOES ANY GOOD for the person? Couldn't a good therapist also walk a kid through "being a tomboy is fine?"
Remember the body positivity movement? Accept yourself and your body regardless of shape or size... unless you're trans, then you should definitely mutilate it.
I'm not a conservative but that definition of hate from Destiny is very weird. If you don't want people to die from car accidents, and you pass a law that people are required to wear seat belts, does that mean you hate people that die from car accidents? The problem is that conservatives think that trans is a self harming ideology, whereas the disconnect is that trans people don't see any other path forward for them except for gender affirming care which is being taken away by force.
If the ideology of transgenderism ceases to exist, a lot of people who shouldnt be trans wouldnt be anymore. The problem is that making the ideology cease to exist is impossible so the only thing you can do is give them gender affirming care.
@@luxeayt6694 the problem is we got rid of bullies. Bullies kept u grounded in reality. . . .they would mock the kid who would howl at the sun lol we got rid of bullies now we have furries graping animals. It's like Yellowstone national Park. The wolves saved it. By eating the overpopulated deer etc. The river banks were able to grow shrubbery and trees again, which stabilised the riverbanks, which caused the rivers to come back which brought back life. As the deer's had destroyed the national park by eating everything. The riverbeds collapsed etc. The wolves in this scenario are the bullies. Bullies help society revolve. Even the protesters of today are so violent and entitled, so radical. Never told no as kids. Never beaten. Never held accountable. Participation trophies. Too much sheltering from reality. Parents are why we have this problem. My generation was hit hard with the anti bullying laws in school. U always hear about some huge muscle bound dude walking up to a former school bully and shaking their hands, their bullying caused the overweight depressed kid to lose weight. And take control of his life. We used to mock men that wore dresses. Now it's illegal lol. That's the problem. This protected speech crap. Words are not violence. Violence is violence lol😂 Thsts the biggest issue. The youth have no idea what violence actually looks like. Extremely sheltered from everything that makes u tough or teaches u life lessons. We have raised 2 generations of boys with beards.... The question isn't what is a woman, we should be asking what is a man😂
If they think that it’s a self harming ideology then you’d think that they’d talk about trans people with more empathy. But when they talk about people like Elliot Page for example, it just comes off as hate/disgust. Personally I think that conservatives think transgenderism is weird and they’re scared that it will turn their kids trans. I don’t think they actually see trans people as victims who need help (unless they’re detransistioners. Then all of a sudden conservatives have all the compassion in the world)
@@luxeayt6694 Conservatives in general are not trying to destroy the trans ideology, they are simply taking a stand against the astro-turfed portion. Before if you were trans, you naturally came into that, as you grew older, and discovered yourself, it was more a grassroots thing. Now they are treating trans as a sort of trendy it thing to be, and astroturfing by the indoctrination of children. Now on the flip side this could turn into a very real hatred of trans people, if they don't start disavowing the segments, that are trying to indoctrinate children. Right now the laws are more on the defensive, but people are starting to feel more radicalized, with every attack on children(as the should be).
@@luxeayt6694 i think its possible to be a trans person but not follow the ideology of transgenderism tho. for example the statement " trans women are women" I believe that statement is false and i bet there are more than a few trans folks that would agree with me, and those people know they aren't women but just wanna live their life like a woman.
you could also argue that preventing ideolog parents from prematurely castrating a not insignificant percentage of the next generation is a legitimate concern for a large swath of young confused kids that are just trying to find somewhere to fit in
Eh, the ability to reproduce is overrated TBH and it's always funny to see how highly some people prioritize it even when talking about children whose greater priority by far is the alleviation of their gender dysphoria. Also, out of curiosity, on what grounds are you saying the percentage is so significant?
good thing that there isn't some massive outbreak of parents just castrating their kids randomly for no reason lol. people who transition are generally pretty damn okay with losing their initial ability to have kids, almost like their intial sexual functions might be unwanted lol
"Large swath", that isn't at all accurate when we look at the number. Also it's chemical castration, stop using that word as an inflammatory, so it makes it seem like parents are just cutting genitals.
@@fifiadan You think that if 1 person gets the wrong treatment that we just shouldn't treat the thousands who need treatment? How many suicides is too many?
Destiny is kind of hypocritical here. He sneaks in this "good therapist" as part of the process which doesn't exist. Not only they've baked in "instant affirmation" as part of their treatment in their official documents they are trying to eliminate any therapist who tries to investigate to find out if the patient is really trans or has any number of other psychological problems. I think there is hatred but it is reactionary and probably warranted.
Well wait, the way you phrase that makes it sound like you're saying that there are supposedly some bad doctors and therefore hatred against trans people is warranted. That doesn't follow but I think you meant something more general, you just should be maybe a little more conscious of how you phrased it. As for your point directly, when you're saying 'they' who are we talking about here? Is this all therapists, some therapists in certain clinics or states or countries or what. Obviously anyone who's pro trans isn't going to accept a blanket statement like that so if you're more specific I can contradict ya or maybe even agree (though unlikely, obviously)
@@devinhoyt2935 From what I have understood from a few interviews, A group of activist psychologists who believe that instant affirmation is the right treatment have convinced psychiatric institutions like the Board of Psychology (which certifies psychologists) to change their recommendations. I am not very sure about the means that they're enforcing this view but the result is that very few psychologists actually try to systematically check a potential transgender person for other psychiatric disorders. These few are certainly not the ones to whom gender clinics refer patients. It means that you have to go out of your way as a parent to find a psychologist that is willing to do the work. Even though they're trying to even ban these few psychologists. Because those activists view anything but "instant affirmation" as conversion therapy. So by "they" I mean these activist psychologists who believe in "instant affirmation" and also by proxy have convinced the majority of therapists to conform to their procedures. Therefore the reality that psychologists genuinely try to find out if a minor is suffering from gender dysphoria and act accordingly doesn't exist (it's not standard procedure right now). The widespread revelation of this situation started the recent wave of the anti-trans conservative movement. Destiny pictures a world where psychologists try genuinely to help potential transgender people but they may have some errors in identifying dysphoric patients. But, as far as we know they don't really believe in such a thing. They believe that everyone who says he/she is trans is actually trans. I shouldn't use warranted. What I really meant is that the hatred is predictable.
@@arianawoosley2841 Would you be willing to link me those interviews or provide a bit more evidence? What you're claiming is hypothetically possible but seems way way too broad to be backed up. In the instance that health care providers aren't doing their due diligence, I believe they should probably be corrected and penalized. But kinda needless to say, your interpretation of things is not too convincing. (though hey, that can change with evidence!)
destiny has never and will never be good faith. reason why he has all these conservative circles is so he can shame them into politically-correct submission.
@@Voltroc I mean there is truth to that? It’s the same as chrowder where both him and Destiny know a lot about the topics, are prepared, and completely shit on those who are not equally prepared. Both are pretty much use to this destroy the egos of younger folks.
I know this will probably not be read, but I don’t know how Destiny is one day making fun of the claim “trans kids are being taken from their parents” and then on a different one he is in the positive for that claim, and using it as an argument. Let me caveat this though, this could be from before he really looked into the whole thing, in which case it’s just a lack of info on his part. But either way, it’s still on tiny to look into these things
“Heteronormative” is like saying we force on to people the fact that human beings have five fingers on one hand compared to six, yes some people have six but that’s not what the average person has on one hand so six isn’t the norm. What’s going on here is heterosexuality is a natural part of [nature and reality] just like having five fingers on one hand is a natural state of our biological existence. if you think that this is some how “forced” onto you because it’s not questioned like homosexuality then your insane!! it doesn’t fall into the category of abnormal concerning the NATURAL sexual use of our biology because heterosexuality is natural TOWARDS our biology…. Homosexuality is not. 🤷🏻♂️
@@roborob4000 Destiny's core argument seems to be minors so let's go from there. Children are rarely trusted with the decision for dinner, it's not a huge leap to say they can't be trusted in determining if their entire endocrine system needs to be shattered permanently due to current feelings. Liken it to finasteride, DHT being the blocked hormone. Adults can take finasteride safely as DHT is mostly unused during the post-puberty section of your life, and would only assist in keeping hair. Now if we allow a 13 year old to take finasteride, their head hair by 16 may be amazing, however the kid will be a twink permanently with no facial hair unless choosing to take a permanent hormonal solution until they die. Or let's talk bodybuilders, who take TRT and the longer they are on it, the more likely their testicles will not return to pre-TRT level testosterone production eventually stopping all natural production, and oh look they need to take a permanent hormonal solution until they die. Yeah, I'd say they don't need it at this very moment, because again, they're children and making life long consequential choices should not be in their hands, nor should it be given to the parents, as that removes autonomy from a child who *may* regret it after aging. A lot of states don't allow children to have tattoos, even with written consent, because they know that a child is not the best judge of choices, and parents aren't always the most involved. And even discussing trans people as a whole, they require the most help they can receive by exploring all avenues. It shouldn't be controversial to say that self-mutilation or more hormonal imbalance might not be the right choice to help them. I'm sick of everyone culturally stopping at "This is the solution, there is no need to check any further, 'gender-affirming care' is the only accessible way to help them and all other option are trans erasure." It's a disingenuous way of approaching an illness that has a higher suicide rate than being schizophrenic.
Destinys argument here is horse shit. "Trans women hates all cis women" is true here if destiny is using the word hate in a broad use case. I guess if we don't support pride parade for kids, we 'hate' trans women is now true when most people just don't like it when kids are involved.
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p 1. Most people support trans right 2. "Kids being involved" makes no difference because it's a legitimate medical condition that people are born with regardless of what tucker Carlson tells you. Its not a "lifestyle choice" or an "ideology" or whatever dumb words conservatives use because they lack the IQ to understand basic medical science
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p You sound so ignorant buddy and you are making up your own "facts" with your opinions, and who is talking about trans parade for kids?? Maybe you should make your own post, mine has nothing to do with your made up BS? You sound stressed too😥 get some help, maybe stop caring so much about other peoples life choices? It will definitely help.
“Conservatives hate trans people” People is the subject. Trans is the adjective describing the subject. When Michael Knowles says “we should eradicate transgenderism”, he isn’t saying “people should die”. He is saying that the category of trans shouldn’t be applied. He is saying that he hates the adjective, not the noun. In his mind, the “best possible outcome” for “trans children” is to remove the trans qualifier. That isn’t “hating trans people” that’s “hating the trans qualifier”. If you’re going to use bombastic language, expect to lose the semantic argument.
@GraysPeakBand “eradicating transgenderism” is still harmful to trans people though, that’s like eradicating homosexuality. You can’t get rid of transgenderism, if you “eradicate” it there will still be transgender people, they just won’t be able to openly talk about it. Wouldn’t that lead to even higher suicide rates? I get that the whole topic of trans children is a very controversial subject, but if transgenderism is outlawed or whatever Knowles is advocating for, wouldn’t that extend to adult trans people? Even if Knowles is saying he hates the adjective and not the noun, it’s still a misguided view to have. I don’t think you can get rid of something that seems to be inherent for a lot of people, and banning the concept of it will just hurt more people than help, including children who are legitimately trans.
Tbh I think the first guy has a point in regards to having a broader discussion of what hate is and what it entails. I’m not a legal expert, but it sorta reminds me of the concept of mens rea. I think a lot of conservatives/Christians genuinely think it’s a bad thing, and don’t actually believe that it’s a valid identity, which I think is fundamentally different than what destiny seems to imply, which is that conservatives think it’s a valid identity, but don’t want them to exist because they hate them.
That logic can be used to justify almost anything tho. It’s bad epistemology. Let’s say that some parents have expectations of their daughter. She is not meeting those expectations and what she is doing with her life is not a valid lifestyle in their eyes. Then after the parents make rules and setting restrictions that are not followed by her… the parents kill their daughter because their personal views conflict with her personal choices. They will say “we didn’t hate our daughter, we did it for the good of the world” maybe to save her soul or to stop Satan or like in my country, to save face for family honour. The real equivocation here is actually with the concept of “love” not “hate”. Christian’s and conservatives want to convince people that you can destroy someone’s life or lively hood and call that “love” not what it actually is, dishonest hate. Christian’s will kill their entire family to “save them” from a personal choice they don’t want for them selves while claiming it was done out of love or concern. Conservatives do not love or have any concerns for LGBT people, they actually use false concern to hide their dishonest hate.
A decent few Germans genuinely thought the Jews really did control the country’s economy and were causing massive damage to their lives. We even have a word for these people. Nazi’s.
@@ManicPandaz I don’t understand how any of what you just argued relates to epistemology except for this hypothetical family’s claim regarding “ saving the daughter soul “
@@dream1430 Hate fuelling wilful ignorance out of indoctrinated biases is a flaw in epistemology. If conservatives had good epistemology, they would follow the science and not lie about facts. If they didn’t lie about the fact out of willful ignorance then that irrational hate wouldn’t have a foundation and would work it’s self out with education. That’s my point in terms of epidemiology.
I swear he’s had that view before, that each side mistakes the others sides true concerns for hate I think he doesn’t like getting into philosophical shit with chat, it never goes well lmao
You agree that if someone FEELS the opposite of reality, we should let them mutilate themselves as they see please, including minors? You believe DIABETES (physical problem that may kill you) is the same as "I FEEL sad and like I want to unalive myself"?
@@ng38477 Most of this discussion has to start from the mutal agreement that Body dismorphia is a real mental disability and that mental disabilities are real (just like depression etc) and can be "cured" with medication / therapy etc. From there we look at what the current scientific supported therapies are. Mind you most people including destiny do not support minors to undergo surgery or even therapy "as they please".
@tatatot234 When have ever "cured" any mental disorder? Never. Have we "cured" Schizophrenia? No. It's something you manage and live with. Then, even w their transition. THEY'RE "Dysphoric". They talk about being Dysphoric for even the most minor thing they experience in life. So how has "transition" cured them? It hasn't. What are we gonna do? Give them a brain transplant? THEY HAVE TO ACCEPT REALITY, NOT LIVE IN A FANTASY. I like how you all think no surgeries is a reasonable position but you're fine w them guzzling synthetic hormones is fine. ALL of which can permanent harm these people. I don't give af if he's pretending to be "moderate" or "reasonable". He's a nut job on this subject.
@@BH-te5fs You need to learn how to read. No one said that. But I do find the endless gaslighting and manipulating campaign from the activists and defenders to be quite interesting. If you say it's a MI, Trans people and their defenders will literally try to ban you from every platform and ruin your life. You have Trans people like Philosophy Tube completely denying that he's MI and thinking he has transformed into a woman. It is "Hate Speech" on You Tube to say they are MI (that's why I have to abbreviate it, because I have had You Tube tell me it's "hate speech" and is considered that on almost every platform) but NOW, you have MADE UP a completely nonsensical accusation that I am "saying mental health issues aren't real" from seemingly nothing. So when I say it directly, it's hate speech. When I'm VERY CLEARLY SAYING IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE, You: "Why are you saying mental issues are real?" WHERE THE F DID YOU GET THAT? No one said that. You're just lying or you're so emotional, you don't bother reading what's said. MI people can think whatever they want, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT REALITY. Anorexic people FEELING like they're fat, DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE. WHY DOES THIS NEED EXPLAINING? I'm sick of this sh!t, end of story. I don't give af. There should be no more "transition" anymore. This country has gotten dumber and more irrational. Accept reality. If they want to leave the US, good riddance.
I like that Destiny included entire arguments instead of trying to only get visual 'dunks.' Over the years he works actively to treat opposing viewpoints with fairness vs becoming ideologically pigeonholed.
@Poopoo Peepee Both sides use dishonest "debate tactics" all the time. Destiny sometimes uses them, but he engages in good faith far more than any other debate pundit I know of. I can't think of a single right wing or conservative pundit with even close to the amount of good faith engagement with the ideas of the other side. Not Tim Pool, Ben Shappiro, Steven Crowder etc. Though if you have suggestions for good right-wing or conservative commentators I'd be interested in checking out their points.
@@WiloPolis03 it is a typical christian logical fallacy. The base is of rational design and god been the creator hence perfect hence good. Of course only when nature "is good" when "is bad", it works in mysterious ways
It was awesome to see him on campus and to get some awesome discussion going. It's rough at PSU in terms of anything productive from speakers, and seeing Destiny in person kinda made my whole semester. Stuffs awesome
@@limitbreak2966 bro looks Marie Kanker from Ed Edd & Eddy You gotta be under 20 if you think that looks good, or maybe you’re still in you league phase
@@jack04091 Because no matter how good your point is, if you lack civility nobody is going to listen to you except the people who agree with you. A leftie screaming "my choice" isn't as appealing as rationally discussing why they believe it is their choice. A rightie screaming trans people are harming society and our children isn't as appealing as rationally discussing their concerns with the trans movement. If either side lost their civility*, the respective side will dismiss the points and we see this constantly. That's why discussions like this are refreshing and informative. Points of concern on both sides are mostly clear and allows you to come to your conclusions with a better understanding of the situation & how to progress.
I really wonder if that guy actually thought that cutting off someone's insulin wasn't harm genuinely or he just said it to be consistent to what he would say for trans people.
Lmfao. Insulin deprivation leads to the death of a diabetic. Cutting off chemical castration to a mentally ill person leads to? Nothing. Nothing happens. If your argument is "it leads to death because they mental patient will kill themselves" you have no argument.
i don’t think the comparison was apt, regardless. diabetes is a proven, measurable issue that has a proven, non-harmful (if used correctly) solution. neither of these are true for trans ppl. transness as a concept has not been proven, and trans care as it stands today is both 1) physiologically harmful and 2) highly inconsistent with its results
"Transness as a concept has not been proven" lmao the fuck, what would constitute proof in your eyes if the current available info on the topic isn't enough?
Actually type 1 diabetes can be managed without exogenous insulin it's just really tricky and risky. It's actually a perfect analogy because you're asking someone to live a super inconvenient life because of your arbitrary objection to you taking a hormone
It would be cool for destiny to talk with different people that had puberty blockers during adolescents or other forms of gender affirming care. I feel like too many ppl talk about it abstractly with little to no input from people that have actually experienced. That or they find someone with the exact experience they want to push their narrative and focus on them at the expense of everyone else.
I’ve always thought this as well. We’re always talking for Trans people and not actually getting their input on anything? But then again those that do speak out are called all sorts of names, told they’re mental, groomers and pedos
Do you have an opinion on Eugenia Cooney, the content creator with severe anorexia? She doesn't think she needs help. She thinks she's beautiful and fulfilled. Should we listen to and affirm her since she says she's fine?
yeah but its the same for the other side too. look how many trans people came out and said " I regret the change" or " I regret pubity blockers" etc. They are called fascist right wing bigots and ignored even though they now live the rest of their lives with these issues that the left pretend don't exist@@dominiquebaby678
@@FirstRecords204 yeah, and medical literature also said that lobotomies were ok and that r*ping women with dildos cured them of "hysteria". But go on, tell me more about the infallibility of medical science.
When the bud light thing happened I pointed out that one trans person on advertising was not a big deal. Quite a few of the responses were "one is too many".
that shit was sto stupid. I'm against the dude being a spokesperson for women on international women's day but the attacks and cancelling for bud light shit was just too much. Not liking Dylan for what he has done or represents fine, constantly dogging sponsors and livelyhood not ok.
It's amazing to see how destiny picks the arguments he is taking vs the ones he'll just let pass. Some of these students sad some insanely wrong stuff, loaded with assumptions and misinformations, and destiny would just be "alright yea, let's focus on this thing most important to the core argument"
Not really. It just makes you ignorant, entitled alt-left libtards mad he doesn't cave into your crazy ideology. The usual anime pfp tells me all I need to know as a person.
These people are insane. They'll say like one sentence that needs 12 paragraphs to break down how wrong it is and then keep trying to steamroll you with more bs before you can even respond. That's why these debates are stupid. If you literally locked down a conservative in a padded room and forced them to watch a point by point breakdown of how literally everything they think they know about trans people is wrong their tiny grug brains would probable explode.
Look, I like Destiny and his work is valuable, but... the idea that hormones are to trans kids like insulin is to diabetics? 100% of trans kids are guaranteed to die without them? That take is legitimately divorced from reality. Destiny prides himself, rightfully, on being a logical person who avoids jumping to emotional extremes; he should honestly be ashamed of that opinion.
He truly believes it; I mean consequentially they might *self delete* As if That wasn't already apart of another mental illness. His view is The woke mind virus in action lol
It's frightening to imagine a kid, whom already has parents that love them enough to try and help them get treatment for their problems, being taken from their parents by the state and given to foster parents whose solutions are going to effectively make the kids problems worse. Regardless of where you stand on any trans issues, that sounds like Hell for the poor kid.
It’s frightening to imagine a situation where a teacher could completely bypass parental authority and knowledge in order to try and address what is alleged to be a mental condition by withholding information to the parents and sharing discussions and material with the kid without the parents’ consent or knowledge.
@Mant111 The Fantasy land of Florida: “The Florida House of Representatives has approved a bill that would allow state courts to intervene in custody disputes and remove transgender children who are receiving gender-affirming care from supportive families with whom they live. In extreme circumstances, legal experts say this may even “involve the state taking physical custody of a child.”
Love you D ! May not agree with everything you say but you are seriously one of the most Important and pivotal figures on the left ! Thanks for always going to the places others are too scared to go ! We need you and I appreciate you very much ! All love ! ❤
Not that I think I make a difference but I really enjoyed these conversations. They were very respectful and each side got their points across. Thank you for what you do.
Your opening clip is bad faith, it cuts clips right before clarifying and also patriot front is FBI not republicans lol do police always let people wear their masks or keep their backpacks on while being “arrested” 🤣
I think Destiny was bad in this. He was like a classic leftist on this topic. He compares trans medication with diabetes which is in a totally different ballpark. Also he is so uncharitable to the opposing position. And I subscribe to the idea that "I do not believe in trans people". Because now you have no idea what the hell qualifies being a transperson. Do you have gender dysphoria? Are you autistic and want to be socially accepted? Are your parents stupid and want to raise you "gender neutral"? And so on and so on. What frustrates me the most is that I know that Destiny knows this. Watching his convos over the years regarding trans / gender that became progressively stupider with the Demonmoron Self ID arc, the trans in sports arc (which got him banned from Twitch), to literally having a clown trying to argue that trans women get period cramps. Like he must know that conservatives do not hate trans people wheter directly or consequencially, but they try to stop this contagious social infection that is infected so much of the medical system, the schools and political landscape. Now I have no idea if a 12 year old boy who is suicidal and wants to be girl, I genuinely do not know if he does this because he has actual real gender dysphoria or autism or he will just get over it in 1 month. That is how crazy and confusing the times are. And Destiny has to know this, because I watched a 3 min video of him reacting to Philosophy Tube (the 2nd most popular trans person on YT) saying that "Gender Dysphoria is a category error". So if that idiot with 1.5 million views says that which confuses the living hell of his/her audience, what chance is the average conservative parent has to figuring this crap out.
Well unfortunately Steven seems to be taking certain influences from Chrowder when it comes to arguments. Instead of using hate, it would been more beneficial to say a “misunderstanding”. Destiny loves drama, he even admits it at times and it’s how he achieves high viewership. It’s concerning because it’s manifesting into important topics, and Destiny wants to keep playing the same tune of always being in “good faith” when it’s obvious he’s not. Steven understands the concerns of conservatives, but yet purposely downplays them or doesn’t highlight them enough to justify why conservatives are very adamant in being against the trans thing in the first place. I even despise that Destiny thinks the conservatives are just “obsessed”. Please…our “obsession” is no less or more then the progressives obsession of seeing kids be more gay or trans.
@@EternalEmpr3ss religious people are not purposely telling people to mutilate their body parts for Jesus. Nor are they advocating for humans to subscribe to an idea that goes against basic biology. One can argue there are dominions like that, but so far Christians largely accept the basic principles of science, especially when regarding males and females.
Destiny, a conservative can just as easily say, “You hate babies. You hate God. Etc.” But you’d respond ideologically by claiming that abortion can be good for the mother. Similarly, a conservative would argue that trans affirming “care” is actually harmful. So to them, you hate trans people. Or more precisely, you support trans people hating and destroying their own natural bodies. This is at bottom an ideological dispute. Whether someone hates x is relative to the truth of an ideology, so you’re not getting to the heart of the issue.
Exactly! As a matter of fact, given his worldview, determinism is true, moral facts don't exist and mereological nihilism is true. So the supposed ‘conservative hater’: 1. Couldn’t have chosen otherwise. 2. Hate itself would have no moral significance and it might even be a useful survival utility! 3. Both the terms ‘conservative’ and ‘trans’, ironically, wouldn't be real categories. 4. Even the very concept of the ‘Change my mind’ challenge is destroyed by his own worldview! This guy. SMH.
Idk if you've watched any destiny but he would almost certainly not respond by saying it's good for the mothers. Destiny's position is that before a certain point in development it's not a human life therefore destroying it is not immoral If you actually think destiny is wrong in some way here you can for sure have a conversation with him. I'd love to watch that
@@Dogpoop118yeah I wasn’t sure how Destiny would respond, so good to know 👍🏻 But I would say the point remains: Hate is relative to your ideology. I would love a civil and thoughtful conversation with Destiny for sure!
It's so good to see this type of content Destiny, thank you. My entire information bubble has been that of the right just because of freedom of speech for the past, well since 2015. With it, then tends to come these conservative talking points which apparently crumble under closer inspection. This is basically why I still follow you after all these years. Having first discovered you during your Starcraft days, I stuck around even though politically we went different paths. At this point you're the only truth seeking leftist I know of.
The Destiny "you're the only true leftist" thing...I don't even know what to call it. A 'pick me' strategy? A conservative, a 'you're nice to me, at least we can talk' thing when all the leftist interaction they are familiar with is twitter people. Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense. At the bottom of it just sounds like the old 'you're one of the good ones' arguments.
@@connorbrady5689 well the extreme lefty is the type to joke about dead babies but cry about a joke about a minority😂 I think extreme lefties are rare in irl. They ar win an echo chamber on the internet, similar to the red pill guys. Most lefties in my country Australia are pretty normal. No one particularly takes the extremists seriously. Except for the youth. But they will learn in 10 years, we all did. We all used to believe silly ish lol
@@connorbrady5689 there is no real right in a sense. U have conservatives like crowder n Shapiro. But I wouldn't call them on the right. As most normal people who claim to be right leaning, are still fairly moderate. I would say extreme right would be alex Jones, extreme conservative would be Nick fuentes. I'm more a Mr metokur type of guy, I laugh at the left and the right. As they are both weird lol and usa is in a weird bubble of its own. America is fueled by race. No other country has this issue this large. Would u call aba n preach on the right? As most lefties would call them alt right, but as they are Canadian like im Australian, we are more liberal than America, but less extreme with it. We also see ourselves as centre right, but left leaning on issues. We have welfare and all that talking points that would class us as a socialist country, but we wouldn't class ourselves as socialist. We just care about our society. And our homeless etc. We also have a fraction of the population. So we can actually manage our 25 million residents. California has more people than my entire country and half of them are homeless or mentally ill. And as u get lots of immigrants, u don't really fill the cup up with american patrotism, it water's down ever generation. As minority groups stay segregated, the love for usa stays segregated also. Whats happening is, the Left hates its own country and half its population. Will usa ever be united? Probably not. Unless aliens invade. But then u would be united on racism of aliens lmaooo united by hate😂
@@connorbrady5689 Destiny is the only one that calls himself leftist that I listen to. Plenty call themselves classical liberal or moderate and have argued that their views haven't changed, but that the culture has shifted so far left that they can no longer follow. Happy to hear some other suggestions 👍
Love when Destiny puts out content like this: In person conversations with (not necessarily) terminally online people. Do this with red pill views and reap the views off “Change my mind” and “Andrew Tate.”
Yeah but it should be more filtered. None of the people are really informed and therefore the conversation is incredibly onesided and I sometimes want to jump through the screen to help these poor guys out. This would be interesting with more capable debaters that are more in tune with their opinions and views. Unfortunate
@14:00 "instead of looking for solutions that'd make transpeoples lives the best it could be" - that's rich, when the discussion about different approaches to treating gender-dysphoria with psychotherapy are basically banned and labeled as attempted conversion-therapies. We even got so far that therapists aren't even allowed to question the gender-identity of the patient. I don't care what grown ups are doing out of this, but when it comes to kids this is really bad.
Good point. It's ridiculous that helping confused kids come to terms with their biological reality is being equated to forcing homosexuals to become straight.
Medical institutions exists in many different countries to help trans people get affirming care, I think various types of doctors and psychologist are probably more informed on this stuff than, for example, you are.
I think the point about many people "not believing" in transgenderism is a pertinent point. And because of this it makes the hatred claim invalid/wrong/inapplicable for those people, much in the same way that atheists do not hate god (despite some believers claims of such)
I think this issue wouldn’t be nearly as “hot” if it wasn’t for the sports controversy. People should have every right to live the life they want but what’s going on in women’s sports is dishonest, immoral and 100% based on lying about factual and well documented realities. You could possibly make an argument for early transition being allowed in female leagues (possibly, since competition gap is far smaller at younger ages) but any male who went through puberty doesn’t belong in a women’s league. If there was less of that, I’m not saying this would go away, but the “controversy” factor for conservatives would be cut in half overnight.
For me, transgenderism is best when compared to religion. If believing in your practices or prescriptions for what you perceive as a good treatment for whatever ails you, then you do you. Just don't tell me I have to believe your fantastical bullshit or I'm in danger of being hated or even harmed for not going along.
The difference is that you can believe in any religion. It won't inherently harm you. However puberty blockers or cross sex hormones are detrimental to humans and in most cases are irreversible. You can always change your religious beliefs or join a new community.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh I would entirely disagree. Religion can be incredibly harmful. Religion can lead to misconceptions of reality, genital mutilation, sexual confusion, or even death. Ever heard the saying, " drink the Koolaid." It has nothing to do with delicious fruit punch.
Your opinion on what is hate is the same as the leftist Destiny: If you disagree with something in any way it's because you hate it. Because there couldn't be logical reasons as to why they are doing this, it must be emotional and irrational. If a drug addict can continue ignoring the problem and taking drugs vs getting treatment for the underlying issue...If the people treating people want drugs gone the latter option is hate right? Who is to say drugs aren't going to be an option for the addict...until of course like the trans community they eventually unalive anyway and then the media ignores it. Why? Because they're getting the affirming care AND it's not working. See why we think your ideas are dumb and they don't work and hence want to make your options illegal? No? That's why you color your hair blue, you're off.
Can't believe I wasted my time writing this book that I expect nobody to read but here are some of my thoughts on the matter. Do I believe that conservatives don’t hate trans people? I think like any group there are a percentage of them that probably do hate members of another group but I don’t think that the “hateful” constitute the majority. Many conservatives feel like the path society is on with gender affirmation, hormone treatment, surgeries and “inclusionary material” to introduce minors to that world is the wrong path. Not everyone has answers or solutions contrary to what they deem is wrong and that’s okay. You can think things are wrong or even morally reprehensible without having to offer up a better solution. I think the core difference between conservatives who hate trans people vs people who don’t hate trans people is their concern for the wellbeing of the trans people instead of being obsessed with the ideology behind it. You can simultaneously be concerned for their health and want the best for them while disagreeing with the currently approved methods for treatment. I don’t think that genital mutilation and tampering with a person’s natural hormones is safe and what research we do have on the matter states that long term damage could occur in the form of cancer, cardiovascular disease, etc. Conservatives who hate trans people are so caught up in the fact that the inclusionary propaganda can contaminate impressionable minds that they do not care about their wellbeing and simply want them removed from public life. There was a point where Destiny compared hormone treatment to insulin for diabetics but I think the two things are inherently different. He’s comparing a physical health need to a mental health need. That mental health need can grow into physical health problems on occasion but if a diabetic isn’t receiving their prescribed doses of insulin it can have extremely serious ramifications on their body. They could lose limbs, they could endure lifelong nerve and functionality damage, they could experience organ failure, etc. as a result of not getting the medication that they need. A lack of hormone treatment could result in a worsening mental state for the patient and exacerbation of their gender dysphoria but shouldn’t result in physical harm very quickly. Most of the research and experimentation being done on hormone therapy has happened in very recent years so we don’t know for certain if the efficacy of hormone therapy balances out the potential long term effects or if the positive effect on a trans person’s mental health is stable and long lasting. The trans/non-binary movement creates a lot of friction in two places from what I can see: encouraging minors to undergo the transition process or demanding the use of pronouns, some of which are new words created by the movement to identify people that don’t neatly fit into a box and are ever expanding. Some kids change their mind and are stuck with permanent damage and many conservatives feel that people who wish to be trans should at least wait until they're a legal adult and then make their own decisions. That isn't out of hatred but because we already have a list of things they aren't allowed to do while their brains are developing that is allowed later on. Hormone therapy should be treated with the same gloves. Secondly, it's hard for the average Joe to follow and care about the growing list of pronouns. Most people don't really care if you're trans or non-binary; the implication that you're a bigot if you don't go along with their self identification turns neutral people into spiteful people instead. I was always taught growing up that respect is earned and who was I to demand something of anyone? Some people out there started in a bigoted environment and continued those views. Some people became bitter and spiteful because the movement steps out of line in its demands at times only to gaslight these people and say "well, you're denying our existence/harming us by not going along with what we want". This most likely results in calling them a bigot and if people in the movement themselves don't do it, "allies" often will. Like I said, I think the majority of conservatives don't hate trans people but simply disagree with how society is handling it. Although, the number of vindictive conservatives will increase if people in the lgbt movement continue to wrongfully demonize them by roping them in with the actual bigots for not bowing down to everything the movement says.
We DON'T affirm bulimics, agreeing they are fat and need to throw up more. The problem with destiny's argument is we do not know for SURE affirming and HRT is IN the best interest of the person. Until then, I'm not ok with suggesting to kids we do irreversible changes to them until we know for sure. Maybe therapy to help them cope with the reality that they are in the body they were born with IS the solution. Listen to any de-transitioner talk about their experiences if you think its irreversible. HRT is up until a certain point, then its a point of no return. Admittedly SOME conservatives may hate trans people, but it seems pretty disingenuous to say all do. Most people against HRT and surgery would say they truely believe these options to NOT be in the best interest of the person. Again, a bulimic might THINK the best option is to throw up after every meal, but that doesn't mean it is. If it comes out that affirming IS in the best interest of the person, then sure i'll get behind it. Ngl it'd suck to have gender dysphoria and I feel bad for people that do. I'm sure trans people have a significant harder life and when 90% of kids "grow out of it" when not being coached, maybe we should step back and look at the chalk board again.
@@GasDude1011 Thanks for not engaging with anything else I said. The fact you attacked the example of a disconnect between the brain and body, instead of engaging with a real conversation like "How do we know its the best option" shows you don't have much evidence on your side to argue with. I used Bulimia as an example but could've switched it out to any other condition to compare GD's disconnect from brain to body. My guess is you probably read that, got triggered and didn't read the rest. Good job! Here's your +1 brownie point. Again, if you can show me it is 100% the best option, i'll be the first on board. Until then, stay mad.
@@GasDude1011 I see you deleted your other comment which was ""Its the most imperially backed method for improving quality of life, do you know that?" I fixed the typos for you.
It's really cool to see someone on the left actually talking about trans people in good faith. I'm so tired of the mainstream left just shutting down conversations like this by screaching about bigotry. The normative position, unfortunately in this country, is to be transphobic. Telling those folks they're bigots instead of having open conversations like this is regressive.
This seems like a pretty self-serving (or bad faith!) comment which positions every anti-trans person as attempting to engage in in good faith conversation about trans issues. Give me a break. Screech at someone, get screeched at back. Is that fair? I’m not saying the concern has no merit, but I’m positive it’s overblown. Also, transphobia is the normative position among *conservatives.* Dems are pretty pro trans. This disparity is much more due to bad faith engagement among right wing leaders and media than bad faith engagement among left wing leaders and media. So it was for black people, so it was for gay people, so it is for trans people. As the lunacy largely proliferates from the top, by people who likely know better but benefit too greatly from it to stop, you could say that they are the ones deserving of scorn, but IDK, the voters kinda suck too.
I mean, I think that is likely why that’s the normative position imo. I’ve discussed these subjects with trans activists and they can get irritatingly disingenuous and resort to insults.
@@GeraltofRivia-12 So? There seem to be a lot of people saying the exception does not exist, shouldn't exist, or isn't allowed to exist, that's where the problem lies
@@ska042 exception is the intersex people and problem arises when non intersex people are used as certain people to mix them with normal girls and boys. And then they say stupid stuff like all of this is just on spectrum.
Blame conservatives all you want but they aren't the ones silencing debate. Just like the last student who said he couldn't even have this debate in class without being reprimanded.
Bro, these conversations are able to be nuanced, just like the issue of trans issues are themselves. Unfortunately, politics isn’t nuanced anymore, and people seeking power are out for power, no matter the sacrifices needed.
Destiny, you and your insane friends have been on the wrong side of history like 200 times over the past 8 years, Why do you think that this is going to be different?
A lot of people despise the entire "pride" movement....including people who used to be pretty accepting. It certainly isn't limited to conservatives. Hate began to develop once a hard line was crossed.....that hard line being the involvement of children.
There are things I disagree with Destiny on and little issues I have, but then I see him go out and put together stuff like this and my respect for the lad goes through the roof
Wokeness Has Gone Too Far | CHANGE MY MIND
►th-cam.com/video/y2PJ7wYU_8Y/w-d-xo.html
Change My Mind College Debates (PLAYLIST)
►th-cam.com/play/PLFs19LVskfNxvHs5a0-v6YNPi-iFspODf.html
As a gay guy, thank you for also speaking up for trans people. I woke up to this and it's disgusting and I'm not even a liberal. I don't lean either side. Right or Left but yes conservatives are very homophobic and transphobic. I didn't see it going this far. This is sick. Again, thank you Destiny. Saving lives
Student 1 shouldve brought an example of healing crystals moms, sure we all can agree that they do harm to their child with their pseudo science but is it because they hate their child and want them to suffer? Or is it bevause they're stupid and dont know how to properly help a person?
I mean remember when FOX NEWS of all places showed pro trans footage with specifically trans kid? I think its fair to say that atleast SOME conservatives genuinely care about ppl but think banning things is a way to minimize the harm
The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you assume trans is something you are...Its not..Its something you do based upon multiple different mental disorders..Such as Gender dysphoria, autogynephilic, incel depression, autism, or simply being told its a choice. The main problem is all rational thought goes out the window with this issue. At no time in history has it ever been considered a good thing to enable a mental disorder..You wouldnt do it with anorexia, binge eating, drug use, schizophrenia, etc....Because its always been the case that when you enable a mental it affirms the person in the short term, but in the long term only hurts them. This happens to the extreme when enabling transgender choices which causes in the long term a 20x higher self deletion rate, multiple times the likelihood of drug addiction as well as other mental disorders..And that is just the mental side of it. Once you get to the drugs the amount of medical side effects are too long to list here...And then if you go to surgery it gets even worse...Now if it was just adults that would be sad..But the problem is telling small children that they can simply choose to be a boy or girls when these kids are at the same age that they believe in imaginary friends, putting them down a path of all the problems listed above..There have always been mental disorders, but transgenderism is the only one that is promoted as a choice to the youngest and weakest among us.
@@ezekiel5687 The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you assume trans is something you are...Its not..Its something you do based upon multiple different mental disorders..Such as Gender dysphoria, autogynephilic, incel depression, autism, or simply being told its a choice. The main problem is all rational thought goes out the window with this issue. At no time in history has it ever been considered a good thing to enable a mental disorder..You wouldnt do it with anorexia, binge eating, drug use, schizophrenia, etc....Because its always been the case that when you enable a mental it affirms the person in the short term, but in the long term only hurts them. This happens to the extreme when enabling transgender choices which causes in the long term a 20x higher self deletion rate, multiple times the likelihood of drug addiction as well as other mental disorders..And that is just the mental side of it. Once you get to the drugs the amount of medical side effects are too long to list here...And then if you go to surgery it gets even worse...Now if it was just adults that would be sad..But the problem is telling small children that they can simply choose to be a boy or girls when these kids are at the same age that they believe in imaginary friends, putting them down a path of all the problems listed above..There have always been mental disorders, but transgenderism is the only one that is promoted as a choice to the youngest and weakest among us.
@ezekiel, would you like me to post some links showing that parents have discovered paedophilic books that are being shown in schools because of The "acceptance" of this nonsense?
Destiny’s version is better than Crowder’s. Change my mind.
Fucking watch it.
@@koolarooo Your abuse is sick.
I don't love you
I’ve never received love from you
That doesn't work eeeeeeeeeeeither.
the production quality has drastically increased since the start of these
how so?
@@impastorr1354 intro
@@impastorr1354 Better microphone that doesn’t pick up any excessive background noise (won’t doubt that there’s some post editing too), very good framing and camera shots, and just overall higher quality equipment.
Just look at the one that destiny did a year ago
Soooo true. It looks fantastic
Thanks friends :)
8:06 Guy says he's "not sure" that banning insulin would be a form of harm.
The cope is strong with this one.
@Poopoo Peepee ok poopoo peepee lmao
to be fair, he had to “cope” because an asinine comparison was made. comparing a proven, measurable physiological issue with a proven, non-harmful intervention to a non-proven psychological issue with an inconsistent and physiologically damaging “solution” is nonsensical
😂😂😂
@@DavidJones-ot8qu "non-proven psychological issue with an inconsistent and physiologically 'damaging' solution"
How are you so unbiased my guy? It's amazing
If insulin is causing more harm than good then banning it would be fine.
First guy is so caught up on semantics that it defeats any point he was trying to make. Hate, by definition, is just an intense dislike. This "intent to harm" definition is his own definition of hate that he is stumbling over.
Destiny was very wrong on this. Why is destiny using broad definition for hate? With his definition you can clearly make an argument that 'trans woman hate cis woman' or that " conservatives hates all women" for abortion issues. Heck anybody that doesn't support lgbtq now apparently 'hates' them. That don't makes sense and destiny is fishing for shit here.
I could not agree more. Like destiny said that bar is set way too damn high.
Not really, it was a crowderesque clickbait prompt that openly invites semantic discussion. It's not like Destiny was using the dictionary definition of the word himself, but rather using a weaker definition that he just came up with. First guy wasn't the most well spoken, but he was certainly right to try and get destiny to clarify his position and push him on his provided definitions of words instead of just accepting them as is.
RIght. Like when white nationalists say they just want to send all black people back to Africa, does he think they don't hate black people?
@A Right about what though? mans said that he wasn't sure if banning insulin would cause harm to diabetics. Lil bro just doesn't wanna be wrong lol.
U can tell he actually cares about what hes talking about .
I hope that this passion inspires other people towards actual solutions .
Agreed
The only sane solution is to allow trans affirming care to people over whatever the age of censent is in your area. If you don't hold the capacity to decide whether or not you actually want a dick inside you, or yours inside someone else, than surely you also don't possess the capacity to decide you no longer want your dick.
You new here?
@@lampad4549 nothing wrong with being new here
Nah he’s just trying to win the argument
These are great. I love how (for the most part) respectful these debates/conversations are; each person is clearly listening to the other debater, as opposed to multiple people screaming over each other on Discord.
Only problem is none of them are actually conservatives
The camera and audio setup in this is amazing for being a pop-up change my mind shack on a college campus. The podcast is gonna be amazing.
I'm so happy he's putting more of an effort into his appearance. The fit is on point 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Here is a total destruction of the argument about heteronormativity.
We NEED it. It's hard enough to justify any form of medication or surgery for a child diagnosed with gender dysphoria already. Removing gender stereotypes and roles destroys the anchor that informs you about the people who are outside the norm. How can a kid even begin to navigate this shit show without knowing what's the norm, what's common for the majority of people? How can anyone begin to understand if they are trans if they don't know about heterosexuality and homosexuality and how being trans is different from that? We are talking about children! They never even had time to navigate their own sexuality. How many kids who would end up gay will have to be butchered before people take this seriously? A kid can't even tell if they are gay or not before having enough interactions.
Best opening I've seen yet, excellent job.
Please do more of these, this is without a doubt my favorite form of debate.
POGGERS he finally released it
Great content. I kept wishing someone would take Destiny to the debate deep end but have to remember he's just politely engaging college students and getting a gauge of the social atmosphere on campus. But it's always great to hear young moderate perspectives.
You might be interested in his recent meta ethics debate with cosmic skeptic
The intro was pretty dope, I'm not gonna lie 🔥
The same people that say no to tattoos for 12 year olds, are ok with gender confirming care.
I think the problem with this statement is that your average conservative supports access to gender affirming care at 18, so their stance is more that kids cant make these decisions, you can disagree but thats not hate
most high profile conservative pundits are against affirming care all the time. They ultimately shape narratives
Is there any other condition a child can be diagnosed with where it's acceptable to put off treatment until they're 18?
@@louisadway1856 I get that, but at the same exact time, high doses of testosterone are pretty damn dangerous and have poor longevity outcomes. And bottom surgery is incredibly crude from everything I've heard. I think the only truly really good treatment is acceptance
@@metalmythology6282 I don't agree. The positive outcomes for gender affirming care including surgery is higher than most other selective medical procedures. Additionally rates of depression, anxiety and suicidal attempts/ideation are greatly reduced with gender affirming care. I'm curious, what levels of testosterone are minors being prescribed and at what age? From my understanding, young children only socially transition initially and then once the child reaches the age of puberty is prescribed puberty blockers. This is all laid out in a treatment plan with parents, the child, their medical doctors and their therapists as a comprehensive plan.
@@louisadway1856 well yeah but gender affirming care implies cross sex hormones, the blockers are just to give time to make decisions, there are reasons we don't allow athletes to take test legally. I think we should look into how far social acceptance goes to lower sudoku rates by itself. In afraid that half of these trans men are gonna have serious cardiovascular issues
Destiny needs to have a conversation with Matt Walsh
Destiny would likely (extremely high chance) beat against Matt Walsh but Matt Walsh would win the overall argument. The Trans issue is stupidly fucking iffy and so much SUS energy in it.
@Sunny Sangha I think they both would agree with a lot, I've heard destiny say there is a lot in the trans issues that are ridiculous. It's hard to say who would win overall as I'm very biased towards the left side in treating trans people with dignity and respect, so I would already be in agreement and I can't imagine agreeing with Matt that we should be treating trans people with no respect.
Adults can do what they want with their own bodies, that’s a given. But when it comes to children taking the decision to make permanent body modifications to themselves, NO!
Destiny seems to say conflicting things about trans sports. Sometimes he says that trans sports bans should only exist in professional and college sports. Here he says he agrees completely with banning trans women from all cis women's sports.
Well, biological men can still harm females at high school level sport.
You can’t reason somebody out of something they haven’t reasoned themselves into.
You definitely can bro like some people just have opinions on things they haven't really thought about much and you just show a small flaw in their thinking like- oh haven't thought of that. Imagine if this were true, when the hell would anyone ever convert from a religion they were born into a family of and believed strongly in their youth?
holy shit my grammar I apologize for writing this.
I reasoned a dude who fully believed in the moon landing hoax who was alive *for the moon landing*. You can't reason someone out of unreason, but you can reason them into reason, even though they might even get THERE unreasonably lmao
...you're talking about trans people right?
why
Matt Walsh is incel Christ.
I couldn’t hear you over my breast augmentations, what ?
Disagree on the affirming care point. Simply put, Affirmative care is not used in anything but Gender modification. ADHD is something that is observed by a psychiatrist, and there are a battery of tests psychiatrist use to diagnose it. It is NOT diagnosed via affirmation. That would be incredibly stupid.
I don't get why it's controversial to say that I care about autistic people but also want to eradicate autism. Having some sort of background in genetics, I'm intrigued to have a scientific discussion on this.
How would you eradicate autism? The only way I can think of would probably get me a jail cell in The Hague.
@@jordanwhite8718 by curing it, or finding a "magical" way to prevent people from ever getting it...
Surely as someone with a background in genetics, you understand that "autism" covers a pretty wide range of behaviors, so where would you draw the line at which types of autism ought to be eliminated?
@Cherse Gems Well, perhaps until the point where the disorder causes significant damage/disruption to the lives of the individual and those closest to them. But the greater problem, as you've pointed out, is singling out the cause if you're thinking about targeting it from a gene therapy or even molecular functioning perspective. And yes, as a broad spectrum disorder due to no one specific detected cause, it really isn't too feasible atm.
@Jordan White If there were avenues to rid its incidence (not prevalence xD, we're speaking epidemiology, not purging), that could be a potential start. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but I mostly view it as a neuronal disorder similar to other neurodegenerative diseases.
Hate is a real strong word, and it is often mis used like it is here. Should be Conservatives disagree with transitioning would be more accurate.
Thank Ragepope for guessing the number.
There's no one way to be conservative. Some will be more libertarian and some will be very rigid in their expectations for people and society. When it comes to kids I think many conservatives take the view that kids don't yet know who they are or what they want beyond immediate gratification and should hold out on medical interventions.
Really? I don't hear shit about trans men? Only trans women. I wonder why?
I don't hate them. I just don't think it is a good thing that should be promoted or encouraged. It should be treated by a psychologist privately for each individual.
What do you mean by promoted? For example, when Elliot Page was on the cover of that magazine, was that promotion?
@@mikemills326 Society has duty to promote hetero normalcy. To maintain healthy demographics.
@@mikemills326 no, I don't think we should ban media from being allowed to show trans people, or even celebrate them.
When I say promotion, I mean having educators telling children that transgenderism is okay.
It's like tellings kids that schizophrenia is okay.. like yes, schizos exist and should be treated with dignity, but it's not 'okay'. It's a debilitating mental disease and we should feel sympathy for sufferers, but not encourage people to identify with them or try to be like them.
In fact, teachers in public school shouldn't discuss schizophrenia at all with their students unless it's a psych class. I feel the same about transgenderism.
I don't hate anyone
You never debate a general point. This is a golden rule of a debate. Make your opponent cite specifics.
I'm really happy there was nobody interfering
Destiny keeps falling back on "wanting more studies and data." I don't even think we have data that transitioning HELPS the person in any way, or that transitioning is beneficial in the first.... Take Rosie ODonnell, she admits she was a tomboy and would likely have been pushed to transition nowadays, and she likely sides more with conservatives on this... So what data do we even have to show that puberty blocking or body modification DOES ANY GOOD for the person?
Couldn't a good therapist also walk a kid through "being a tomboy is fine?"
Remember the body positivity movement? Accept yourself and your body regardless of shape or size... unless you're trans, then you should definitely mutilate it.
People are turning trans from binaural beats
That makes perfect sense.
@@johnwinthrop2702 Its been proven to be hidden in drake songs and most liberal media
Destiny fails to see that people who are against childhood transition is that they think the treatment itself is the harm
Cancer treatments are harmful. Should we can them?
I'm not a conservative but that definition of hate from Destiny is very weird. If you don't want people to die from car accidents, and you pass a law that people are required to wear seat belts, does that mean you hate people that die from car accidents? The problem is that conservatives think that trans is a self harming ideology, whereas the disconnect is that trans people don't see any other path forward for them except for gender affirming care which is being taken away by force.
If the ideology of transgenderism ceases to exist, a lot of people who shouldnt be trans wouldnt be anymore. The problem is that making the ideology cease to exist is impossible so the only thing you can do is give them gender affirming care.
@@luxeayt6694 the problem is we got rid of bullies. Bullies kept u grounded in reality. . . .they would mock the kid who would howl at the sun lol we got rid of bullies now we have furries graping animals.
It's like Yellowstone national Park. The wolves saved it. By eating the overpopulated deer etc. The river banks were able to grow shrubbery and trees again, which stabilised the riverbanks, which caused the rivers to come back which brought back life. As the deer's had destroyed the national park by eating everything. The riverbeds collapsed etc.
The wolves in this scenario are the bullies. Bullies help society revolve.
Even the protesters of today are so violent and entitled, so radical. Never told no as kids. Never beaten. Never held accountable.
Participation trophies. Too much sheltering from reality.
Parents are why we have this problem. My generation was hit hard with the anti bullying laws in school.
U always hear about some huge muscle bound dude walking up to a former school bully and shaking their hands, their bullying caused the overweight depressed kid to lose weight. And take control of his life.
We used to mock men that wore dresses. Now it's illegal lol. That's the problem. This protected speech crap. Words are not violence. Violence is violence lol😂
Thsts the biggest issue. The youth have no idea what violence actually looks like. Extremely sheltered from everything that makes u tough or teaches u life lessons. We have raised 2 generations of boys with beards....
The question isn't what is a woman, we should be asking what is a man😂
If they think that it’s a self harming ideology then you’d think that they’d talk about trans people with more empathy. But when they talk about people like Elliot Page for example, it just comes off as hate/disgust.
Personally I think that conservatives think transgenderism is weird and they’re scared that it will turn their kids trans. I don’t think they actually see trans people as victims who need help (unless they’re detransistioners. Then all of a sudden conservatives have all the compassion in the world)
@@luxeayt6694 Conservatives in general are not trying to destroy the trans ideology, they are simply taking a stand against the astro-turfed portion. Before if you were trans, you naturally came into that, as you grew older, and discovered yourself, it was more a grassroots thing. Now they are treating trans as a sort of trendy it thing to be, and astroturfing by the indoctrination of children. Now on the flip side this could turn into a very real hatred of trans people, if they don't start disavowing the segments, that are trying to indoctrinate children. Right now the laws are more on the defensive, but people are starting to feel more radicalized, with every attack on children(as the should be).
@@luxeayt6694 i think its possible to be a trans person but not follow the ideology of transgenderism tho. for example the statement " trans women are women" I believe that statement is false and i bet there are more than a few trans folks that would agree with me, and those people know they aren't women but just wanna live their life like a woman.
you could also argue that preventing ideolog parents from prematurely castrating a not insignificant percentage of the next generation is a legitimate concern for a large swath of young confused kids that are just trying to find somewhere to fit in
Eh, the ability to reproduce is overrated TBH and it's always funny to see how highly some people prioritize it even when talking about children whose greater priority by far is the alleviation of their gender dysphoria. Also, out of curiosity, on what grounds are you saying the percentage is so significant?
good thing that there isn't some massive outbreak of parents just castrating their kids randomly for no reason lol. people who transition are generally pretty damn okay with losing their initial ability to have kids, almost like their intial sexual functions might be unwanted lol
Do you actually think this is happening?
"Large swath", that isn't at all accurate when we look at the number. Also it's chemical castration, stop using that word as an inflammatory, so it makes it seem like parents are just cutting genitals.
@@fifiadan You think that if 1 person gets the wrong treatment that we just shouldn't treat the thousands who need treatment? How many suicides is too many?
Destiny is kind of hypocritical here. He sneaks in this "good therapist" as part of the process which doesn't exist. Not only they've baked in "instant affirmation" as part of their treatment in their official documents they are trying to eliminate any therapist who tries to investigate to find out if the patient is really trans or has any number of other psychological problems.
I think there is hatred but it is reactionary and probably warranted.
Well wait, the way you phrase that makes it sound like you're saying that there are supposedly some bad doctors and therefore hatred against trans people is warranted. That doesn't follow but I think you meant something more general, you just should be maybe a little more conscious of how you phrased it.
As for your point directly, when you're saying 'they' who are we talking about here? Is this all therapists, some therapists in certain clinics or states or countries or what. Obviously anyone who's pro trans isn't going to accept a blanket statement like that so if you're more specific I can contradict ya or maybe even agree (though unlikely, obviously)
@@devinhoyt2935 From what I have understood from a few interviews, A group of activist psychologists who believe that instant affirmation is the right treatment have convinced psychiatric institutions like the Board of Psychology (which certifies psychologists) to change their recommendations.
I am not very sure about the means that they're enforcing this view but the result is that very few psychologists actually try to systematically check a potential transgender person for other psychiatric disorders. These few are certainly not the ones to whom gender clinics refer patients. It means that you have to go out of your way as a parent to find a psychologist that is willing to do the work. Even though they're trying to even ban these few psychologists. Because those activists view anything but "instant affirmation" as conversion therapy.
So by "they" I mean these activist psychologists who believe in "instant affirmation" and also by proxy have convinced the majority of therapists to conform to their procedures. Therefore the reality that psychologists genuinely try to find out if a minor is suffering from gender dysphoria and act accordingly doesn't exist (it's not standard procedure right now). The widespread revelation of this situation started the recent wave of the anti-trans conservative movement.
Destiny pictures a world where psychologists try genuinely to help potential transgender people but they may have some errors in identifying dysphoric patients. But, as far as we know they don't really believe in such a thing. They believe that everyone who says he/she is trans is actually trans.
I shouldn't use warranted. What I really meant is that the hatred is predictable.
@@arianawoosley2841 Would you be willing to link me those interviews or provide a bit more evidence? What you're claiming is hypothetically possible but seems way way too broad to be backed up.
In the instance that health care providers aren't doing their due diligence, I believe they should probably be corrected and penalized. But kinda needless to say, your interpretation of things is not too convincing. (though hey, that can change with evidence!)
You lose most conservatives by even saying trans youth. Tbh. You lose most liberals when you say trans youth lmao
FUCKING FINALLY AUGUST
Nice one
Sometimes you start to think Destiny is good faith and then you get videos like this.
destiny has never and will never be good faith. reason why he has all these conservative circles is so he can shame them into politically-correct submission.
@@jaywallace5582 lol, sure.
@@Voltroc I mean there is truth to that? It’s the same as chrowder where both him and Destiny know a lot about the topics, are prepared, and completely shit on those who are not equally prepared.
Both are pretty much use to this destroy the egos of younger folks.
I know this will probably not be read, but I don’t know how Destiny is one day making fun of the claim “trans kids are being taken from their parents” and then on a different one he is in the positive for that claim, and using it as an argument.
Let me caveat this though, this could be from before he really looked into the whole thing, in which case it’s just a lack of info on his part.
But either way, it’s still on tiny to look into these things
“Heteronormative” is like saying we force on to people the fact that human beings have five fingers on one hand compared to six, yes some people have six but that’s not what the average person has on one hand so six isn’t the norm.
What’s going on here is heterosexuality is a natural part of [nature and reality] just like having five fingers on one hand is a natural state of our biological existence. if you think that this is some how “forced” onto you because it’s not questioned like homosexuality then your insane!!
it doesn’t fall into the category of abnormal concerning the NATURAL sexual use of our biology because heterosexuality is natural TOWARDS our biology…. Homosexuality is not. 🤷🏻♂️
It's not harmful to not give somebody cosmetic surgery they don't need it
How about denying healthcare providers the ability to prescribe them hormones?
@@sabiro2315 they don't need cosmetic surgery especially kids
facts destiny doesnt believe himself here
But you agree it would be if they did need it right? It's almost as if that's the key point of the trans discussion
@@roborob4000 Destiny's core argument seems to be minors so let's go from there. Children are rarely trusted with the decision for dinner, it's not a huge leap to say they can't be trusted in determining if their entire endocrine system needs to be shattered permanently due to current feelings. Liken it to finasteride, DHT being the blocked hormone. Adults can take finasteride safely as DHT is mostly unused during the post-puberty section of your life, and would only assist in keeping hair. Now if we allow a 13 year old to take finasteride, their head hair by 16 may be amazing, however the kid will be a twink permanently with no facial hair unless choosing to take a permanent hormonal solution until they die. Or let's talk bodybuilders, who take TRT and the longer they are on it, the more likely their testicles will not return to pre-TRT level testosterone production eventually stopping all natural production, and oh look they need to take a permanent hormonal solution until they die.
Yeah, I'd say they don't need it at this very moment, because again, they're children and making life long consequential choices should not be in their hands, nor should it be given to the parents, as that removes autonomy from a child who *may* regret it after aging. A lot of states don't allow children to have tattoos, even with written consent, because they know that a child is not the best judge of choices, and parents aren't always the most involved.
And even discussing trans people as a whole, they require the most help they can receive by exploring all avenues. It shouldn't be controversial to say that self-mutilation or more hormonal imbalance might not be the right choice to help them. I'm sick of everyone culturally stopping at "This is the solution, there is no need to check any further, 'gender-affirming care' is the only accessible way to help them and all other option are trans erasure." It's a disingenuous way of approaching an illness that has a higher suicide rate than being schizophrenic.
Dude had to think about the "hating someone doesn't necessarily mean you want to hurt them" 😂
Destinys argument here is horse shit. "Trans women hates all cis women" is true here if destiny is using the word hate in a broad use case. I guess if we don't support pride parade for kids, we 'hate' trans women is now true when most people just don't like it when kids are involved.
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p 1. Most people support trans right
2. "Kids being involved" makes no difference because it's a legitimate medical condition that people are born with regardless of what tucker Carlson tells you. Its not a "lifestyle choice" or an "ideology" or whatever dumb words conservatives use because they lack the IQ to understand basic medical science
@@user-gc1wj8tt2p You sound so ignorant buddy and you are making up your own "facts" with your opinions, and who is talking about trans parade for kids?? Maybe you should make your own post, mine has nothing to do with your made up BS? You sound stressed too😥 get some help, maybe stop caring so much about other peoples life choices? It will definitely help.
@@taylormade9748 That's what was used? 😂 I'm not arguing anything? What does it have to do with me having a laugh at a comment made?
@@synchronium24 He got his facts from "I made it the fook up" The brain rot Wikipedia
I wonder if that kid had any idea what StarCraft was when Destiny said he used to be a pro. You're welcome for making you feel old.
“Conservatives hate trans people”
People is the subject.
Trans is the adjective describing the subject.
When Michael Knowles says “we should eradicate transgenderism”, he isn’t saying “people should die”. He is saying that the category of trans shouldn’t be applied. He is saying that he hates the adjective, not the noun. In his mind, the “best possible outcome” for “trans children” is to remove the trans qualifier. That isn’t “hating trans people” that’s “hating the trans qualifier”.
If you’re going to use bombastic language, expect to lose the semantic argument.
the only high IQ comment.
inb4 a psuedoscientific comment that states "UMMM TRANS PEOPLE ARE TRANS FROM BIRTH"
@GraysPeakBand “eradicating transgenderism” is still harmful to trans people though, that’s like eradicating homosexuality. You can’t get rid of transgenderism, if you “eradicate” it there will still be transgender people, they just won’t be able to openly talk about it. Wouldn’t that lead to even higher suicide rates? I get that the whole topic of trans children is a very controversial subject, but if transgenderism is outlawed or whatever Knowles is advocating for, wouldn’t that extend to adult trans people? Even if Knowles is saying he hates the adjective and not the noun, it’s still a misguided view to have. I don’t think you can get rid of something that seems to be inherent for a lot of people, and banning the concept of it will just hurt more people than help, including children who are legitimately trans.
It's funny to me that the same people that say gender is not a social construct assert that social activities can turn people trans.
Tbh I think the first guy has a point in regards to having a broader discussion of what hate is and what it entails. I’m not a legal expert, but it sorta reminds me of the concept of mens rea. I think a lot of conservatives/Christians genuinely think it’s a bad thing, and don’t actually believe that it’s a valid identity, which I think is fundamentally different than what destiny seems to imply, which is that conservatives think it’s a valid identity, but don’t want them to exist because they hate them.
That logic can be used to justify almost anything tho. It’s bad epistemology.
Let’s say that some parents have expectations of their daughter. She is not meeting those expectations and what she is doing with her life is not a valid lifestyle in their eyes. Then after the parents make rules and setting restrictions that are not followed by her… the parents kill their daughter because their personal views conflict with her personal choices. They will say “we didn’t hate our daughter, we did it for the good of the world” maybe to save her soul or to stop Satan or like in my country, to save face for family honour.
The real equivocation here is actually with the concept of “love” not “hate”. Christian’s and conservatives want to convince people that you can destroy someone’s life or lively hood and call that “love” not what it actually is, dishonest hate. Christian’s will kill their entire family to “save them” from a personal choice they don’t want for them selves while claiming it was done out of love or concern. Conservatives do not love or have any concerns for LGBT people, they actually use false concern to hide their dishonest hate.
A decent few Germans genuinely thought the Jews really did control the country’s economy and were causing massive damage to their lives. We even have a word for these people. Nazi’s.
@@ManicPandaz I don’t understand how any of what you just argued relates to epistemology except for this hypothetical family’s claim regarding “ saving the daughter soul “
@@dream1430 Hate fuelling wilful ignorance out of indoctrinated biases is a flaw in epistemology. If conservatives had good epistemology, they would follow the science and not lie about facts. If they didn’t lie about the fact out of willful ignorance then that irrational hate wouldn’t have a foundation and would work it’s self out with education. That’s my point in terms of epidemiology.
I swear he’s had that view before, that each side mistakes the others sides true concerns for hate
I think he doesn’t like getting into philosophical shit with chat, it never goes well lmao
I ultimately agree with Destiny but kudos to the first guy, he was doing really well presenting his arguments and countering Destiny's.
You agree that if someone FEELS the opposite of reality, we should let them mutilate themselves as they see please, including minors? You believe DIABETES (physical problem that may kill you) is the same as "I FEEL sad and like I want to unalive myself"?
@@ng38477 Most of this discussion has to start from the mutal agreement that Body dismorphia is a real mental disability and that mental disabilities are real (just like depression etc) and can be "cured" with medication / therapy etc.
From there we look at what the current scientific supported therapies are. Mind you most people including destiny do not support minors to undergo surgery or even therapy "as they please".
@tatatot234 When have ever "cured" any mental disorder? Never. Have we "cured" Schizophrenia? No. It's something you manage and live with. Then, even w their transition. THEY'RE "Dysphoric". They talk about being Dysphoric for even the most minor thing they experience in life. So how has "transition" cured them? It hasn't. What are we gonna do? Give them a brain transplant? THEY HAVE TO ACCEPT REALITY, NOT LIVE IN A FANTASY. I like how you all think no surgeries is a reasonable position but you're fine w them guzzling synthetic hormones is fine. ALL of which can permanent harm these people. I don't give af if he's pretending to be "moderate" or "reasonable". He's a nut job on this subject.
@@ng38477 Talking to people about what they feel is how we diagnose all mental conditions. You are saying that mental health issues aren't real.
@@BH-te5fs You need to learn how to read. No one said that. But I do find the endless gaslighting and manipulating campaign from the activists and defenders to be quite interesting. If you say it's a MI, Trans people and their defenders will literally try to ban you from every platform and ruin your life. You have Trans people like Philosophy Tube completely denying that he's MI and thinking he has transformed into a woman. It is "Hate Speech" on You Tube to say they are MI (that's why I have to abbreviate it, because I have had You Tube tell me it's "hate speech" and is considered that on almost every platform) but NOW, you have MADE UP a completely nonsensical accusation that I am "saying mental health issues aren't real" from seemingly nothing. So when I say it directly, it's hate speech. When I'm VERY CLEARLY SAYING IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE, You: "Why are you saying mental issues are real?" WHERE THE F DID YOU GET THAT? No one said that. You're just lying or you're so emotional, you don't bother reading what's said. MI people can think whatever they want, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT REALITY. Anorexic people FEELING like they're fat, DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE. WHY DOES THIS NEED EXPLAINING? I'm sick of this sh!t, end of story. I don't give af. There should be no more "transition" anymore. This country has gotten dumber and more irrational. Accept reality. If they want to leave the US, good riddance.
First dude pretty much blew up Destiny's argument.
I like that Destiny included entire arguments instead of trying to only get visual 'dunks.' Over the years he works actively to treat opposing viewpoints with fairness vs becoming ideologically pigeonholed.
it helps the opposing view isn't nuts
@Poopoo Peepee examples?
@Poopoo Peepee I think you can be strategic and also good faith. One doesn't negate the other.
@Poopoo Peepee as someone who disagrees with Destiny I have to say he usually is a fair debater
@Poopoo Peepee Both sides use dishonest "debate tactics" all the time. Destiny sometimes uses them, but he engages in good faith far more than any other debate pundit I know of. I can't think of a single right wing or conservative pundit with even close to the amount of good faith engagement with the ideas of the other side. Not Tim Pool, Ben Shappiro, Steven Crowder etc. Though if you have suggestions for good right-wing or conservative commentators I'd be interested in checking out their points.
“Insulin doesn’t occur naturally in nature.” I have news for you man.
I never really understood any sort of argument resembling "x doesn't occur in nature", as if all things in nature good and all things artificial bad?
I think homie might have ment, medical insulin ready to inject doesnt occur in nature. I think that's what he ment.
@@WiloPolis03 it is a typical christian logical fallacy. The base is of rational design and god been the creator hence perfect hence good. Of course only when nature "is good" when "is bad", it works in mysterious ways
@@poisonvolkswagon9431 Bruh you're talking to a devout Christian lol. Not all Christians are anti-science
@@WiloPolis03 Never intended to state that all Christians are anti-science
It was awesome to see him on campus and to get some awesome discussion going. It's rough at PSU in terms of anything productive from speakers, and seeing Destiny in person kinda made my whole semester. Stuffs awesome
Keyword is discussion, I love how they're just talking, no ones getting upset
Her*
Totally awesome
:)
Damn i wish i saw him, i didnt know he was on campus until it was too late
His hair is looking ethereal, his power level grows
Destiny has unlocked super Saiyan royal blue
Looks horrible to be honest, buddy is 35
Smart dude but no aesthetic sense
@@dream1430 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@dream1430 what? It looks good tf lol? I’m assuming you’re one of those types who thinks anything colorful is “bad taste”
@@limitbreak2966 bro looks Marie Kanker from Ed Edd & Eddy
You gotta be under 20 if you think that looks good, or maybe you’re still in you league phase
These guys have better manners than the lefties in steven crowder
Leftists are angry by nature
So? When talking about the existence of a group of people why is civility your biggest concern
@@jack04091 civility is essential in a healthy society
@@jack04091 in serious debates, civility is the first thing you need to have, lad
@@jack04091 Because no matter how good your point is, if you lack civility nobody is going to listen to you except the people who agree with you.
A leftie screaming "my choice" isn't as appealing as rationally discussing why they believe it is their choice.
A rightie screaming trans people are harming society and our children isn't as appealing as rationally discussing their concerns with the trans movement.
If either side lost their civility*, the respective side will dismiss the points and we see this constantly. That's why discussions like this are refreshing and informative. Points of concern on both sides are mostly clear and allows you to come to your conclusions with a better understanding of the situation & how to progress.
FINALLY August let out the secret stash, god bless this man
I really wonder if that guy actually thought that cutting off someone's insulin wasn't harm genuinely or he just said it to be consistent to what he would say for trans people.
Lmfao. Insulin deprivation leads to the death of a diabetic. Cutting off chemical castration to a mentally ill person leads to? Nothing. Nothing happens.
If your argument is "it leads to death because they mental patient will kill themselves" you have no argument.
i don’t think the comparison was apt, regardless. diabetes is a proven, measurable issue that has a proven, non-harmful (if used correctly) solution. neither of these are true for trans ppl. transness as a concept has not been proven, and trans care as it stands today is both 1) physiologically harmful and 2) highly inconsistent with its results
"Transness as a concept has not been proven" lmao the fuck, what would constitute proof in your eyes if the current available info on the topic isn't enough?
Actually type 1 diabetes can be managed without exogenous insulin it's just really tricky and risky. It's actually a perfect analogy because you're asking someone to live a super inconvenient life because of your arbitrary objection to you taking a hormone
@@DavidJones-ot8qu hey that's a whole lot of bullshit you just spouted there bucko
It would be cool for destiny to talk with different people that had puberty blockers during adolescents or other forms of gender affirming care. I feel like too many ppl talk about it abstractly with little to no input from people that have actually experienced. That or they find someone with the exact experience they want to push their narrative and focus on them at the expense of everyone else.
I’ve always thought this as well. We’re always talking for Trans people and not actually getting their input on anything? But then again those that do speak out are called all sorts of names, told they’re mental, groomers and pedos
Do you have an opinion on Eugenia Cooney, the content creator with severe anorexia? She doesn't think she needs help. She thinks she's beautiful and fulfilled. Should we listen to and affirm her since she says she's fine?
yeah but its the same for the other side too. look how many trans people came out and said " I regret the change" or " I regret pubity blockers" etc. They are called fascist right wing bigots and ignored even though they now live the rest of their lives with these issues that the left pretend don't exist@@dominiquebaby678
@@allergictoliberalismwhat does the medical literature and study data say about affirming anorexia vs affirming gender? do you notice a difference?
@@FirstRecords204 yeah, and medical literature also said that lobotomies were ok and that r*ping women with dildos cured them of "hysteria". But go on, tell me more about the infallibility of medical science.
You can tell Destiny actually listens to the people where as Crowder when he did this is just waiting for his turn to go for a slam dunk.
Was Crowder wearing a dress at the time?
@@CEWIII9873 : I don’t understand
@@KilimnikGenya look it up, lazybones
nah he was beating his pregnant wife
The first conversation is very important. When we argue about topics but define terms differently, it’ll be almost impossible to solve issues
When you define terms in an extreme manner (hate only occurs if you murder someone), then it’s not a debate.
When the bud light thing happened I pointed out that one trans person on advertising was not a big deal. Quite a few of the responses were "one is too many".
That fiasco is puzzling
They are worried about their kids being turned trans, but are their kids consuming lots of bud light?
Either way I might be looking to buy BUD stock soon lol
that shit was sto stupid. I'm against the dude being a spokesperson for women on international women's day but the attacks and cancelling for bud light shit was just too much. Not liking Dylan for what he has done or represents fine, constantly dogging sponsors and livelyhood not ok.
Some conservative dude literally attacked a section of bud and Busch light 😂😂😂
Based
Great content. Great editing. Great vid overall. Keep it coming.
Color pfps unite
It's amazing to see how destiny picks the arguments he is taking vs the ones he'll just let pass. Some of these students sad some insanely wrong stuff, loaded with assumptions and misinformations, and destiny would just be "alright yea, let's focus on this thing most important to the core argument"
Not really. It just makes you ignorant, entitled alt-left libtards mad he doesn't cave into your crazy ideology. The usual anime pfp tells me all I need to know as a person.
@@Dronetek Nice b8 m7
Insulin is absolutely a hormone
These people are insane. They'll say like one sentence that needs 12 paragraphs to break down how wrong it is and then keep trying to steamroll you with more bs before you can even respond. That's why these debates are stupid. If you literally locked down a conservative in a padded room and forced them to watch a point by point breakdown of how literally everything they think they know about trans people is wrong their tiny grug brains would probable explode.
You can see he’s more understanding cause the kids are young
@@KitchenSinkDefence did he say insulin isn't a hormone?
Look, I like Destiny and his work is valuable, but... the idea that hormones are to trans kids like insulin is to diabetics? 100% of trans kids are guaranteed to die without them? That take is legitimately divorced from reality. Destiny prides himself, rightfully, on being a logical person who avoids jumping to emotional extremes; he should honestly be ashamed of that opinion.
He truly believes it; I mean consequentially they might *self delete* As if That wasn't already apart of another mental illness.
His view is The woke mind virus in action lol
What “work” exactly? It’s just MSM regurgitation
50% of destinys beliefs are that brainless
It's frightening to imagine a kid, whom already has parents that love them enough to try and help them get treatment for their problems, being taken from their parents by the state and given to foster parents whose solutions are going to effectively make the kids problems worse. Regardless of where you stand on any trans issues, that sounds like Hell for the poor kid.
Really does 💯
It doesn't sound like hell if you hate trans people! Am I right?
What fantasy world are you describing?
It’s frightening to imagine a situation where a teacher could completely bypass parental authority and knowledge in order to try and address what is alleged to be a mental condition by withholding information to the parents and sharing discussions and material with the kid without the parents’ consent or knowledge.
@Mant111
The Fantasy land of Florida:
“The Florida House of Representatives has approved a bill that would allow state courts to intervene in custody disputes and remove transgender children who are receiving gender-affirming care from supportive families with whom they live. In extreme circumstances, legal experts say this may even “involve the state taking physical custody of a child.”
Finally the change my mind
Love you D ! May not agree with everything you say but you are seriously one of the most Important and pivotal figures on the left ! Thanks for always going to the places others are too scared to go ! We need you and I appreciate you very much ! All love ! ❤
For real
Didn't ask destiny has low iq opinions
who's too scared to go to Penn state?
I love D too, I love D… I just love D so much
I also love his D ❤
Not that I think I make a difference but I really enjoyed these conversations. They were very respectful and each side got their points across. Thank you for what you do.
Your opening clip is bad faith, it cuts clips right before clarifying and also patriot front is FBI not republicans lol do police always let people wear their masks or keep their backpacks on while being “arrested” 🤣
I think Destiny was bad in this. He was like a classic leftist on this topic. He compares trans medication with diabetes which is in a totally different ballpark. Also he is so uncharitable to the opposing position.
And I subscribe to the idea that "I do not believe in trans people". Because now you have no idea what the hell qualifies being a transperson. Do you have gender dysphoria? Are you autistic and want to be socially accepted? Are your parents stupid and want to raise you "gender neutral"? And so on and so on.
What frustrates me the most is that I know that Destiny knows this. Watching his convos over the years regarding trans / gender that became progressively stupider with the Demonmoron Self ID arc, the trans in sports arc (which got him banned from Twitch), to literally having a clown trying to argue that trans women get period cramps. Like he must know that conservatives do not hate trans people wheter directly or consequencially, but they try to stop this contagious social infection that is infected so much of the medical system, the schools and political landscape.
Now I have no idea if a 12 year old boy who is suicidal and wants to be girl, I genuinely do not know if he does this because he has actual real gender dysphoria or autism or he will just get over it in 1 month. That is how crazy and confusing the times are. And Destiny has to know this, because I watched a 3 min video of him reacting to Philosophy Tube (the 2nd most popular trans person on YT) saying that "Gender Dysphoria is a category error". So if that idiot with 1.5 million views says that which confuses the living hell of his/her audience, what chance is the average conservative parent has to figuring this crap out.
Well unfortunately Steven seems to be taking certain influences from Chrowder when it comes to arguments. Instead of using hate, it would been more beneficial to say a “misunderstanding”.
Destiny loves drama, he even admits it at times and it’s how he achieves high viewership. It’s concerning because it’s manifesting into important topics, and Destiny wants to keep playing the same tune of always being in “good faith” when it’s obvious he’s not. Steven understands the concerns of conservatives, but yet purposely downplays them or doesn’t highlight them enough to justify why conservatives are very adamant in being against the trans thing in the first place. I even despise that Destiny thinks the conservatives are just “obsessed”. Please…our “obsession” is no less or more then the progressives obsession of seeing kids be more gay or trans.
The editing... holy shit this was great.
The intro is top tier. well done August
I hate the people enabling their delusions.
What about religious people?
@@EternalEmpr3ss what about them?
@@TrifectaMonkey religion is delusion.
@@EternalEmpr3ss religious people are not purposely telling people to mutilate their body parts for Jesus. Nor are they advocating for humans to subscribe to an idea that goes against basic biology. One can argue there are dominions like that, but so far Christians largely accept the basic principles of science, especially when regarding males and females.
Destiny, a conservative can just as easily say, “You hate babies. You hate God. Etc.” But you’d respond ideologically by claiming that abortion can be good for the mother. Similarly, a conservative would argue that trans affirming “care” is actually harmful. So to them, you hate trans people. Or more precisely, you support trans people hating and destroying their own natural bodies. This is at bottom an ideological dispute. Whether someone hates x is relative to the truth of an ideology, so you’re not getting to the heart of the issue.
Exactly! As a matter of fact, given his worldview, determinism is true, moral facts don't exist and mereological nihilism is true.
So the supposed ‘conservative hater’:
1. Couldn’t have chosen otherwise.
2. Hate itself would have no moral significance and it might even be a useful survival utility!
3. Both the terms ‘conservative’ and ‘trans’, ironically, wouldn't be real categories.
4. Even the very concept of the ‘Change my mind’ challenge is destroyed by his own worldview! This guy. SMH.
I mean... This is Destiny we're talking about. Not exactly an intellectual heavyweight lmao.
incorrect
Idk if you've watched any destiny but he would almost certainly not respond by saying it's good for the mothers. Destiny's position is that before a certain point in development it's not a human life therefore destroying it is not immoral
If you actually think destiny is wrong in some way here you can for sure have a conversation with him. I'd love to watch that
@@Dogpoop118yeah I wasn’t sure how Destiny would respond, so good to know 👍🏻 But I would say the point remains: Hate is relative to your ideology.
I would love a civil and thoughtful conversation with Destiny for sure!
It's so good to see this type of content Destiny, thank you. My entire information bubble has been that of the right just because of freedom of speech for the past, well since 2015. With it, then tends to come these conservative talking points which apparently crumble under closer inspection. This is basically why I still follow you after all these years. Having first discovered you during your Starcraft days, I stuck around even though politically we went different paths. At this point you're the only truth seeking leftist I know of.
Must not know many leftists. Who do you listen to on the right?
The Destiny "you're the only true leftist" thing...I don't even know what to call it.
A 'pick me' strategy? A conservative, a 'you're nice to me, at least we can talk' thing when all the leftist interaction they are familiar with is twitter people.
Statistically, it just doesn't make any sense. At the bottom of it just sounds like the old 'you're one of the good ones' arguments.
@@connorbrady5689 well the extreme lefty is the type to joke about dead babies but cry about a joke about a minority😂
I think extreme lefties are rare in irl. They ar win an echo chamber on the internet, similar to the red pill guys. Most lefties in my country Australia are pretty normal. No one particularly takes the extremists seriously. Except for the youth. But they will learn in 10 years, we all did. We all used to believe silly ish lol
@@connorbrady5689 there is no real right in a sense. U have conservatives like crowder n Shapiro. But I wouldn't call them on the right.
As most normal people who claim to be right leaning, are still fairly moderate. I would say extreme right would be alex Jones, extreme conservative would be Nick fuentes.
I'm more a Mr metokur type of guy, I laugh at the left and the right. As they are both weird lol and usa is in a weird bubble of its own. America is fueled by race. No other country has this issue this large.
Would u call aba n preach on the right? As most lefties would call them alt right, but as they are Canadian like im Australian, we are more liberal than America, but less extreme with it. We also see ourselves as centre right, but left leaning on issues. We have welfare and all that talking points that would class us as a socialist country, but we wouldn't class ourselves as socialist. We just care about our society. And our homeless etc. We also have a fraction of the population. So we can actually manage our 25 million residents. California has more people than my entire country and half of them are homeless or mentally ill. And as u get lots of immigrants, u don't really fill the cup up with american patrotism, it water's down ever generation. As minority groups stay segregated, the love for usa stays segregated also.
Whats happening is, the Left hates its own country and half its population. Will usa ever be united? Probably not. Unless aliens invade. But then u would be united on racism of aliens lmaooo united by hate😂
@@connorbrady5689 Destiny is the only one that calls himself leftist that I listen to. Plenty call themselves classical liberal or moderate and have argued that their views haven't changed, but that the culture has shifted so far left that they can no longer follow. Happy to hear some other suggestions 👍
Love when Destiny puts out content like this: In person conversations with (not necessarily) terminally online people. Do this with red pill views and reap the views off “Change my mind” and “Andrew Tate.”
Yeah but it should be more filtered. None of the people are really informed and therefore the conversation is incredibly onesided and I sometimes want to jump through the screen to help these poor guys out. This would be interesting with more capable debaters that are more in tune with their opinions and views. Unfortunate
@@monkiw2 tbf these people do better than most people online in terms of voicing coherent opposition to Destiny's positions
@14:00 "instead of looking for solutions that'd make transpeoples lives the best it could be" - that's rich, when the discussion about different approaches to treating gender-dysphoria with psychotherapy are basically banned and labeled as attempted conversion-therapies. We even got so far that therapists aren't even allowed to question the gender-identity of the patient. I don't care what grown ups are doing out of this, but when it comes to kids this is really bad.
Good point. It's ridiculous that helping confused kids come to terms with their biological reality is being equated to forcing homosexuals to become straight.
Transgender is not real why those people even bother. It would be like having a debate about flat earth.
Medical institutions exists in many different countries to help trans people get affirming care, I think various types of doctors and psychologist are probably more informed on this stuff than, for example, you are.
Just because you're uneducated about the subject doesn't mean transgender people aren't real, holy shit these people are so dumb.
Earth is flat, you would know that if y’all didn’t stray away from God like these trans bots,you probably think you can travel to space 😂
@@wc8246 Sex is real, gender is not. So he is technically right
I think the point about many people "not believing" in transgenderism is a pertinent point. And because of this it makes the hatred claim invalid/wrong/inapplicable for those people, much in the same way that atheists do not hate god (despite some believers claims of such)
I think this issue wouldn’t be nearly as “hot” if it wasn’t for the sports controversy. People should have every right to live the life they want but what’s going on in women’s sports is dishonest, immoral and 100% based on lying about factual and well documented realities.
You could possibly make an argument for early transition being allowed in female leagues (possibly, since competition gap is far smaller at younger ages) but any male who went through puberty doesn’t belong in a women’s league. If there was less of that, I’m not saying this would go away, but the “controversy” factor for conservatives would be cut in half overnight.
I've been waiting for this, August went all out.
Guess they'll get to keep their job. For now.
For me, transgenderism is best when compared to religion. If believing in your practices or prescriptions for what you perceive as a good treatment for whatever ails you, then you do you. Just don't tell me I have to believe your fantastical bullshit or I'm in danger of being hated or even harmed for not going along.
The difference is that you can believe in any religion. It won't inherently harm you. However puberty blockers or cross sex hormones are detrimental to humans and in most cases are irreversible. You can always change your religious beliefs or join a new community.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh I would entirely disagree. Religion can be incredibly harmful. Religion can lead to misconceptions of reality, genital mutilation, sexual confusion, or even death. Ever heard the saying, " drink the Koolaid." It has nothing to do with delicious fruit punch.
Your opinion on what is hate is the same as the leftist Destiny: If you disagree with something in any way it's because you hate it. Because there couldn't be logical reasons as to why they are doing this, it must be emotional and irrational.
If a drug addict can continue ignoring the problem and taking drugs vs getting treatment for the underlying issue...If the people treating people want drugs gone the latter option is hate right? Who is to say drugs aren't going to be an option for the addict...until of course like the trans community they eventually unalive anyway and then the media ignores it. Why? Because they're getting the affirming care AND it's not working.
See why we think your ideas are dumb and they don't work and hence want to make your options illegal? No? That's why you color your hair blue, you're off.
"trans children" lol
*"loving parents" lol
@@joshingm "pansexual non-binary toddlers" 🙃
@Stefan Mironov of course my 2 yo can consent to that... she was literally a tiger 5 minutes ago
“gay children” lol
"Diabetic children" lol
Really like the introduction, GJ Augustina she is such a good editor.
Can't believe I wasted my time writing this book that I expect nobody to read but here are some of my thoughts on the matter.
Do I believe that conservatives don’t hate trans people? I think like any group there are a percentage of them that probably do hate members of another group but I don’t think that the “hateful” constitute the majority. Many conservatives feel like the path society is on with gender affirmation, hormone treatment, surgeries and “inclusionary material” to introduce minors to that world is the wrong path. Not everyone has answers or solutions contrary to what they deem is wrong and that’s okay. You can think things are wrong or even morally reprehensible without having to offer up a better solution.
I think the core difference between conservatives who hate trans people vs people who don’t hate trans people is their concern for the wellbeing of the trans people instead of being obsessed with the ideology behind it. You can simultaneously be concerned for their health and want the best for them while disagreeing with the currently approved methods for treatment. I don’t think that genital mutilation and tampering with a person’s natural hormones is safe and what research we do have on the matter states that long term damage could occur in the form of cancer, cardiovascular disease, etc. Conservatives who hate trans people are so caught up in the fact that the inclusionary propaganda can contaminate impressionable minds that they do not care about their wellbeing and simply want them removed from public life.
There was a point where Destiny compared hormone treatment to insulin for diabetics but I think the two things are inherently different. He’s comparing a physical health need to a mental health need. That mental health need can grow into physical health problems on occasion but if a diabetic isn’t receiving their prescribed doses of insulin it can have extremely serious ramifications on their body. They could lose limbs, they could endure lifelong nerve and functionality damage, they could experience organ failure, etc. as a result of not getting the medication that they need. A lack of hormone treatment could result in a worsening mental state for the patient and exacerbation of their gender dysphoria but shouldn’t result in physical harm very quickly. Most of the research and experimentation being done on hormone therapy has happened in very recent years so we don’t know for certain if the efficacy of hormone therapy balances out the potential long term effects or if the positive effect on a trans person’s mental health is stable and long lasting.
The trans/non-binary movement creates a lot of friction in two places from what I can see: encouraging minors to undergo the transition process or demanding the use of pronouns, some of which are new words created by the movement to identify people that don’t neatly fit into a box and are ever expanding. Some kids change their mind and are stuck with permanent damage and many conservatives feel that people who wish to be trans should at least wait until they're a legal adult and then make their own decisions. That isn't out of hatred but because we already have a list of things they aren't allowed to do while their brains are developing that is allowed later on. Hormone therapy should be treated with the same gloves. Secondly, it's hard for the average Joe to follow and care about the growing list of pronouns. Most people don't really care if you're trans or non-binary; the implication that you're a bigot if you don't go along with their self identification turns neutral people into spiteful people instead. I was always taught growing up that respect is earned and who was I to demand something of anyone?
Some people out there started in a bigoted environment and continued those views. Some people became bitter and spiteful because the movement steps out of line in its demands at times only to gaslight these people and say "well, you're denying our existence/harming us by not going along with what we want". This most likely results in calling them a bigot and if people in the movement themselves don't do it, "allies" often will. Like I said, I think the majority of conservatives don't hate trans people but simply disagree with how society is handling it. Although, the number of vindictive conservatives will increase if people in the lgbt movement continue to wrongfully demonize them by roping them in with the actual bigots for not bowing down to everything the movement says.
We DON'T affirm bulimics, agreeing they are fat and need to throw up more. The problem with destiny's argument is we do not know for SURE affirming and HRT is IN the best interest of the person. Until then, I'm not ok with suggesting to kids we do irreversible changes to them until we know for sure. Maybe therapy to help them cope with the reality that they are in the body they were born with IS the solution. Listen to any de-transitioner talk about their experiences if you think its irreversible. HRT is up until a certain point, then its a point of no return.
Admittedly SOME conservatives may hate trans people, but it seems pretty disingenuous to say all do. Most people against HRT and surgery would say they truely believe these options to NOT be in the best interest of the person.
Again, a bulimic might THINK the best option is to throw up after every meal, but that doesn't mean it is. If it comes out that affirming IS in the best interest of the person, then sure i'll get behind it. Ngl it'd suck to have gender dysphoria and I feel bad for people that do. I'm sure trans people have a significant harder life and when 90% of kids "grow out of it" when not being coached, maybe we should step back and look at the chalk board again.
They do hate them. The fact you use bulimia as an analogy says everything.
@@GasDude1011 Thanks for not engaging with anything else I said. The fact you attacked the example of a disconnect between the brain and body, instead of engaging with a real conversation like "How do we know its the best option" shows you don't have much evidence on your side to argue with. I used Bulimia as an example but could've switched it out to any other condition to compare GD's disconnect from brain to body.
My guess is you probably read that, got triggered and didn't read the rest. Good job! Here's your +1 brownie point. Again, if you can show me it is 100% the best option, i'll be the first on board. Until then, stay mad.
Conservatives man 😂
@@GasDude1011 I see you deleted your other comment which was ""Its the most imperially backed method for improving quality of life, do you know that?" I fixed the typos for you.
@@GasDude1011 Your name says everything.
It's really cool to see someone on the left actually talking about trans people in good faith. I'm so tired of the mainstream left just shutting down conversations like this by screaching about bigotry. The normative position, unfortunately in this country, is to be transphobic. Telling those folks they're bigots instead of having open conversations like this is regressive.
This seems like a pretty self-serving (or bad faith!) comment which positions every anti-trans person as attempting to engage in in good faith conversation about trans issues. Give me a break. Screech at someone, get screeched at back. Is that fair? I’m not saying the concern has no merit, but I’m positive it’s overblown.
Also, transphobia is the normative position among *conservatives.* Dems are pretty pro trans. This disparity is much more due to bad faith engagement among right wing leaders and media than bad faith engagement among left wing leaders and media. So it was for black people, so it was for gay people, so it is for trans people. As the lunacy largely proliferates from the top, by people who likely know better but benefit too greatly from it to stop, you could say that they are the ones deserving of scorn, but IDK, the voters kinda suck too.
I mean, I think that is likely why that’s the normative position imo. I’ve discussed these subjects with trans activists and they can get irritatingly disingenuous and resort to insults.
Girls have VV and boys have pp. It's that simple my dude. If you have anything else it's an exception and not the rule.
@@GeraltofRivia-12 So? There seem to be a lot of people saying the exception does not exist, shouldn't exist, or isn't allowed to exist, that's where the problem lies
@@ska042 exception is the intersex people and problem arises when non intersex people are used as certain people to mix them with normal girls and boys. And then they say stupid stuff like all of this is just on spectrum.
his hair looks great here. blue and fluffly on the top, trimmed and brown on the sides, it's eye-catching as fuck
Blame conservatives all you want but they aren't the ones silencing debate. Just like the last student who said he couldn't even have this debate in class without being reprimanded.
I liked the intelligent conversation here. Thanks for posting the video
BOSTON IN 7
Jimmy butt-ler
Bro, these conversations are able to be nuanced, just like the issue of trans issues are themselves. Unfortunately, politics isn’t nuanced anymore, and people seeking power are out for power, no matter the sacrifices needed.
Destiny, you and your insane friends have been on the wrong side of history like 200 times over the past 8 years, Why do you think that this is going to be different?
Stick to the “top comments” of this video. I clicked “newest” and read some of the stupidest arguments you will ever read 😂😂😂
A lot of people despise the entire "pride" movement....including people who used to be pretty accepting. It certainly isn't limited to conservatives. Hate began to develop once a hard line was crossed.....that hard line being the involvement of children.
Destinys opening position is flat out unintelligible. Maybe his dumbest string of words ever.
There are things I disagree with Destiny on and little issues I have, but then I see him go out and put together stuff like this and my respect for the lad goes through the roof