This is the WORST Monitor Ever...ON PURPOSE! - Dasung PaperlikeU E-Ink Monitor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
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While we love looking at cool gaming monitors with features like MiniLED and QD-OLEDs, Dasung is coming to us today with something out of left field, an E-INK display. That’s right the same tech that graces the Amazon Kindle is in a monitor now. But is that as bad of an idea as it sounds?
Citations:
1) www.aoa.org/healthy-eyes/eye-...
2) www.webmd.com/eye-health/dry-...
3) link.springer.com/article/10....
4) sid.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/d...
5) www.cell.com/heliyon/pdf/S240...
6) www.rtings.com/monitor/tests/...
7) www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topi...
8) www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/c...
9) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_...
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips.com/topic/15288...
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:32 How E-Ink works
2:48 Features
3:45 Using it...
4:50 Browsing the Web
7:15 the "modes"
8:34 Watching Videos
9:30 How would you use this?
10:35 Trying word processing
11:32 Compare it to a Kindle Scribe
12:09 GAMING
13:09 The COLOR version is coming!
13:32 Contesting their claims
14:30 The Cost
15:47 Outro - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![🔴 [TRỰC TIẾP] Tứ Xuyên (Trung Quốc) VS U20 Thái Lan | Cúp VTV9 - Bình Điền 2024 | JET STUDIO](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bguJ41PcW0c/mqdefault.jpg)
13:42 We worded our first claim poorly, and the two citations we provided aren't strong enough to prove the definitive statement we made. We stand by our skepticism of the health benefits of e-ink vs LCD, but moving forward we'll be more careful with how we approach citations. You can learn more about our changes here: linustechtips.com/topic/1528891-this-is-the-worst-monitor-ever-and-that%E2%80%99s-the-point-dasung-paperlikeu-e-ink-display/?do=findComment&comment=16129832
First video back and you guys still took 9 days to issue a comment (That now 1 million people wont see) about you citing things incorrectly. Nice one guys, keep up the shoddy work!
@@ArabianStasi
They didn't cite things incorrectly lmao.
Keep up the poor reading comprehension!
They will never change
@@ArabianStasiThey didn’t make an incorrect statement. All that was said was that the evidence used to prove their claims weren’t strong enough and they should’ve had more. Their view on it’s effect on eye strain and things alike are the same, the only problem is that they said they haven’t provided enough proof of that statement using two citations.
JFC guys come on
E-Ink is one of those technologies that reminds you not every device has to be a swiss-army knife that can do literally anything. It's genuinely the coolest fusion of new and old technology I've ever seen because of how it fuses the benefits of paper and traditional displays so seamlessly, and it does some thing better than traditional display technologies ever could. But it is simply NOT suited towards general purpose monitor use.
These guys are obviously clueless, and expect it replace a normal monitor.
@@KP-rm6dnsaying that these guys are clueless is like saying that Einstein was clueless.
now thats truly a funny statment, and a real insult to Einstein. @@RickertBrandsen
@@KP-rm6dnTheres a niche market for it. Theres people out there that think that screens will hurt your eyes and gaming will make you blind or whatever. Trust me, theres pleanty of them out there
Pricing is a big barrier
I'd guess that the power consumption is minimal. Could be usable for in commercial settings like shopfront displays, menus, kiosks, etc.
@@GH0STST4RSCR34Mahhh that's already a thing mate. These would replace existing monitors in this scenario
Stores already use them for that, ALDI and many others use them for shelf tags and Kohl's uses them to show you how much you are "saving". Also updatable over wifi.
There is zero power consumption unless you have a backlight or are changing the image.
In London they use use e-ink displays for some bus timetables, it's a great scenario as they don't refresh often, don't need colour, and it has low power consumption.
@@alpham777 Came here specifically to mention shop price tags. Kudos for beating me to it.
I actually saw a display like this being used in real world application
It was rotated 90 (so a vertical display) and it was a shuttle bus schedule display, it would refresh every once in a while saying when the next one would stop.
It was powered via a battery that was charged via a solar panel.
This was at Vintgar Gorge in Slovenia at its parking lot.
It created a very crisp and clear display and information for anyone who wished to view it. It had reasonable lighting, and it was useful. It was really cool.
Some bus stops have them in Taipei as well. They work very well especially when it's sunny outside
@@taiwanjon2583 yup i was reading this and was like i remember that from back in taiwan
in the UAE too
This would be absolutely great for writers. You have to look for a long time at a mostly static screen. This would really be great on the eyes
It is. I have a 13" Boox Max Lumi (it's a e-ink tablet which can ALSO be used as a second monitor, though it's not the type use it was meant for) and I can already tell you it's definitely better than a regular - even bigger - monitor. I would love to switch to an actual e-ink monitor like the 25" Dasung PaperlikeU (or the 25" Boox Mira Pro) ma they're both honestly too expensive (like 2500 usd + taxes and shipping...)
@lorenzocrescentini7476 Yeah i love my boox, and would unironically want one of these monitors for spreadsheets and documents
Linus with anime eyes is now my desktop wallpaper
Hopefully your Desktop doesnt drop your games
new deskpad, or dbrand skin for sure 😂😂
Lol😂
lol xD
Frozen pointing Linus is mine
Welcome back! It's horrible, I want one.
Why? 🫠
@@smmmokin just to see how bad it is in person 😂
You will see a cat video within 2 weeks 😮
I don't know about this monitor, but I have an e-ink android tablet that I absolutely love. I only need to charge it once a month or so and use it for note taking, e-books, articles, basically anything that requires lengthy reading
Great for dark room usage!
Having something like this as a secondary display for PDFs or similar could be pretty neat.
But color support would still be really nice, and the cost has to come way down.
At $500 or below, it could be an interesting option tho, esp if it's designed to be used primarily in portrait mode
As someone who consistently has ~10k pages worth of technical reference PDFs open all the time and >$100k of equipment for testing, an extra $2k to make it easier to read refs ain't bad.
I could see this being used for grandpa and grandma to comunicate trough email. like having a setup where the pc is always on, the screen is always on and signed in, and they just use it to email the family. maybe have a separate tab open where its always signed in to their newspaper website.
I have an e-ink tablet with a color display, it's much, much darker than my kindle screen, even the older models, it also tends to make real pictures look very red. Drawings and comics without too much shading works well enough.
A really common use case for old e-ink tablets I've found was for displaying static/rarely changing Web pages (or information pages). Where the cheep/old hardware was the main issue with repurposing the device. Having a dedicated large e-ink display that you can just plug into the nearest device and act as an interactive information portal is amazing
Noticed more stores using e-ink price tags on shelves. I think that’s a better use of the tech than an active display. It also works for books where the content only refreshes every few minutes and with proper fonts allows us to have libraries on a small portable device that has a long battery life.
I work in the e-ink tag industry. The big innovation sweeping the market with these lately is being able to refresh them solely with energy scavenged from NFC. They literally don't even need a battery in them anymore.
Another big customer for them is convention centers that use them as name tags for visitors
@@toby1248 That is awesome! The tech has always fascinated me. It's been cool to see how much it has evolved in the past few years
but only CRT hurt eyes, now monitors hurt your eye because you look a lot of time in 1 point
@@toby1248that is pretty cool.
Won't be long before they're networked and you get live pricing on stuff like they do for petrol at petrol stations though 😮
it also has much better viewing angles compared to traditional B&W LCD
I can definitely see someone who does a lot of research in their job use this as a secondary monitor. If it wasn't for the cost I would love to have it for studying.
yep mostly schools could use this monitor for sure but for gamers its a stay away from monitor i dont do school work anymore so i dont need a monitor like this
Heck, even as a gamer I could use one. I've already got the three gaming screens anyway so mounting this in portrait mode on the side could make for a nifty way to browse web pages or if I'm gaming have a walkthrough or the like open on the side.
First thing I thought.
sooo many terrible academic websites with bright white backgrounds. Can't tell you how often i've seared my eyes staring at that stuff.
True! I'd love this at my work, which mostly involves research aka lots of reading, combining info and answering emails.
This is something you can probably use as a dashboard of sorts without worrying about screen burn-in or having a bright-ass display at hight that you have to keep turning off. Repurposed kindles and smaller enink displays are already popular for this.
EDIT: Just saw the cost, FTS, lol.
u dont look at dashboards for long
@@jalcome4201 And? That's an even bigger reason to use e-ink(if costs go down). You can leave it on 24x7 and forget about it without worrying about power consumption or burn in.
Imagine watching adult content when your mum comes in and you pull the power cable with a monitor like this....
Imagine watching adult content on this in the first place lmao
Just tell her it's a screen saver
@@tahahaider5836 😂
@@PrivateAccount80527 😉
Secondary monitor is definitely the way to go. Having this on the side in vertical mode would make this perfect for like, documents, documentation, anything dealing with a lot of text. I was genuinely thinking about it before hearing that $2k price tag, big woof.
Yeah, I think for $2k, you might as well get a 4k OLED screen, it'd give a good experience.
It's curved. I don't think you wanna used a curved monitor in portrait mode
You can buy the screen standalone much cheaper, but you would have to diy it, years ago i was looking at them for a raspberry pi
I don't think they could have done much about the price e-ink screens price is controlled by one company
Meanwhile streamers have their scrolling chat turn into a blurry mess
The best use I could think of for e ink monitors are for class rooms for giving notes so you can still have something projected but with the lights still on.
I am thinking about banking or administration. Having this for 8 hours in front of u will certainly be less straining on ur eyes than a normal desktop
this reminds me of the original kindle where it had the best brightness and white color for reading digital books
Honestly, I freelance program, would love to have an e-ink on one side and a normal display on the other. Eye strain is a right pain when you're staring at words on a screen throughout the day! Something I haven't been able to fully solve for myself with different themes etc... Not to mention, 15 hz is probably enough for just coding etc. Unfortunately at >£1000 it is WAY too much, but would love to see this technology more!
Edit: just got to the bit in the video where they talk about E-Ink having no evidence of helping eye strain. While that may be true, I do find reading and stuff significantly less straining overall on my kindle compared to the likes of my phone. E-Ink would absolutely help in my case, just from my experience. Also because I'll be programming at 2am just before bed haha
Don't give teachers ideas
Great that will make school even more depressing 🙄
I'm hoping that they improve the tech and we see more displays like this. It could be especially helpful for programmers and anyone who has to read a lot at their desk. I can see using one as a second screen, especially if they added at least one or two more colors, and they have been working on developing such screens.
For e-ink displays, pages shouldn't be scrolled with the mouse wheel, it should be displayed a screen portion at a time. Like pressing page up/page down keys but without the scrolling animation. And if there's a way to script the display to refresh after doing page up/down.
I mean, I guess you could write a program that covered the screen in white every second or so. They said it has one built in for every 30 seconds.
Yes, this is what I did with my eInk screen. I didn't buy a Dasung, but their competitor so I don't know exactly how they have their drivers programmed but I do believe these are refreshed by "changes" rather than actual Hertz (every second regardless if anything changes on screen). It's been awhile since I used mine, though, due to annoyances with OSes not thinking about wanting to have one monitor set to light mode and the other to dark mode.
It is possible to write a script like that, just push a white borderless window in foreground and hide it again after you detected the input. The animation that might play while doint it can be easily disabled. Regardless of a script, there are a lot of windows settings that you would want to change and I am a bit dissapointed that LTT didn't look at them. Like I already said most of the animations and fancy stuff can be deactivated (which wouldnt have changed the video), however the high contrast accesiblity settings might have been worth looking at. In there you can for example change the colour of links and stuff (something they have pointed out that might be a problem in practice).
I'd consider mapping that to a few clicks of the scroll wheel (how many would be customizable).
Though, yes, the idea of just having it refresh the screen when you scroll might work similarly. If it can start the refresh before the animation starts, it could work.
That completely defeats the purpose of this as a desktop monitor. They shouldn't advertise it as such if they don't expect it to be tested as one.
This monitor would be useful for those with a very specific use-case... like someone who has to read a lot of text-heavy documents.
Even then eye strain would still be a problem. Also seems like scrolling through text could be very annoying
Would honestly be pretty great for programming
Yeah it would probably be amazing for proofreaders or legal professionals having to double, triple, quadruple check contracts and stuff
@@HydratedBeans no not good for programming because it can't handle syntax highlighting. A colour version would be.
stil better than reegular monitor, no?@@alexdavis9324
A teacher could turn one of these sideways and post schedule, events, or homework assignments for the week, and then set it against one of the classroom windows facing the hallway.
A small business owner could set a few of these side by side and post a menu or prices.
A library could use one of these to scan books to check out, or see what's on your library card, or browse the catalog to get the dewey decimal location of a book.
And for personal use, I could write a high contrast application to display my Outlook calendar and run it on an Intel ComputeStick or something and mount it on my wall.
I remember when I was studying for a technical certification they talked about e-ink readers. I got curious and googled if there was such a thing as a e-ink computer monitor and found the monitor you found. I'm glad you made a video on it. I'm sure there's some use for it somewhere I'm just not sure where.
Guys, the addition of citations on this was amazing. This was probably already planned before the reflection week, but this is exactly the kind of addition that takes review content on youtube to the next level.
@@SaruEMSEducation No, you can cite what you want. It is up to the reader/audience to interrogate the source and the argument being made by the author.
@@Robkellysound It puts them out in the open though too so they cant say they didn't know, or just didn't do their due diligence. this is them essentially saying hey we did everything right, and now if they are doing something dirty they wont have a leg to stand on and it will be very obvious. its a sign of good faith and transparency.
but they can just post anything in the citations but it would be figured out quickly.
its lame and takes too much screen
No, it wasn't - if you think that you are delusional.
@@braddishv3146What do you have against citations?
Hi there, I've been in accessibility for more than 6 years now. The bit you missed in this video, was the desktop accessibility modes that Windows has. You have high contrast, you have grayscale, and various other modes that when paired with this monitor might actually improve the experience for someone with vision problems.
I worked with a guy in the office who is extremely photosensitive, light literally hurts his eyes.
It would be nice to see LTT gain some experience in this space, and maybe produce reviews aimed at the people this technology would benefit, rather than assuming a default "everyone is a full vision gamer" type.
It would dramatically improve the quality of the content being delivered.
Reach out to me if you need advice on this!
Cool.
Yes
8:39 they did say that for some type of users it can work.
I do have friends that have similar issues to the situation you described (maybe not as extreme) and I genuinely think that there are better options for people with vision issues and products that are aiming at the specific needs, either through filters, specific modes, or even manufacturing products with older technology that benefits those individuals. Here we are talking for a 2k monitor that utilizes a very gimmicky technology that even in the case of being there for people with various sight issues and eyesight conditions it feels like a niche.
Lol
The color version would be great as a dashboard monitor. Dashboards only need to refresh every few seconds, or so, so it's the perfect use case.
But the price is insane. It would make sense once it goes down to $200.
the only possible issue is speedometers
@@Reverend_Salemah sorry, I didn't mean car dashboards, although that's a pretty cool idea. I was more thinking about monitoring stations, which display lots of charts / graphs, financial data, user usage data, traffic data, etc.
@@itsbazyli im a bit of a car guy, so i immediately think cars when i hear dashboard lol
I got a color eink tablet because I wanted syntax highlighting for code. B&W sucked for that reason. Text doesn't need to refresh that quickly as long as letters show up quickly.
@Reverend_Salem Have you not seen the CES 2022 BMW iX Flow reviel or the reviel of CES 2023 from BMW i Vision Dee?
Actually over where i live bus station booths have started putting these monitors in for showing the schedule and active notices like ongoing sales and delays. Whole thing is driven off a small solar panel placed at the roof and it's really neat.
15 FPS for eInk is amazingly good! I've been waiting a long time for this to improve. There are also color paper displays out there these days - not fantastic but definitely great for 0-power signage etc. Excited to see how this progresses :)
yeah i could see these things replacing normal displays that have taken over for store signage
Yeah my kindle back in the day was like 4fps.
what application?
This would be an ideal retro laptop LCD simulator. Set the resolution to 640x480, load up Windows 3.0... party like it's 1991!
@@shanez1215 Damn you a fast reader
(Pretty sure a kindle only refreshes when you click the button)
I would love to see it being used with a Windows contrast theme, so that the handling of color is dealt with on OS side and not the display.
Would be better as well for Windows to have E-Ink mode which makes the UI theme optimized for black and white E Ink display and no animations.
The issue is then I agree with Linus this is best used as a second monitor. I have one and tried to use it as a primary monitor when I was having migraines that were triggered by looking at a LCD screen. Once I got those under control with medication, I tried using this as a secondary screen but the issue is that operating systems don't have a way to set one monitor to be high contrast while keeping the other one standard. It makes for a really jarring experience because you need dark mode on one side and light mode on the other practically (otherwise going back and forth is awful between a super bright LCD to no light and obviously dark mode doesn't work on these) and OSes don't currently have a way to do that as far as I could figure out. I never bothered with Linux so maybe that is really the option I would need to do. Anyway, because of that, despite liking the screen, mine is currently sitting unused (with plans to eventually hook up a raspberry pi and make it a calendar/weather display in my entry).
Also did they did not disable clear type subpixel rendering, you can clearly see that on the word processing.
come on dude this is LTT you know you shouldn't expect a lot of thought or anything put into their videos
I am using a previous-gen Dasung like that and it is better. Just be aware there is a weird bug in Windows high-contrast mode where certain things on the screen are not shown. For example, the archive/delete etc buttons and corresponding text in Gmail. And not just on e-ink, on any display.
If you ran a custom OS with this monitor it could work well. Like a high contrast mode. Now if you go into windows and setup a high contrast mode you can make it work. Also if they had it setup so there was an LED matrix behind the screen as a backup for color with a wash plate designed to blend in the pixils for hyperlinks or for color as a way to distinguish contrast in video or game mode. That should help a lot. It may cost more but i think it would yeild better results.
A few years back I had some nasty eye issues and I could look only at e-ink screens for a long time. So I actually hope this tech will develop over time into a more usable version. I'm unsure about using it for gaming, but it could eventually become usable for work. Fingers crossed!
they already have color e-ink monitor, it's here on youtube.
Did the issues go away?
Look into a reflective LCD display if the issue returns. Because it's not backlit it doesn't hurt the eyes. I have a similar issue only being able to look at e-ink screens and a reflective LCD display is basically the better version of color e-ink displays. It has the high refresh rate advantages of LCD, with the reflective display advantages from e-ink.
That said they're really fucking expensive and I wasn't willing to invest the money to actually buy one. The one I tried was a sunvisiondisplay RLCD monitor. But it was like $2k back then. Looks like it's about $1.5k rn
@@goosewoman thanks for the info, never heard about those kind of displays before. I can't afford to spend that much money on it right now, but I'll definitely keep it in mind.
How are your eyes now? I have the same eye problem as you. How can you treat your eyes?
Love to see the citations, really shows that you're taking accuracy and transparency even more seriously. A strong return as I'd hoped. Welcome back!
That refresh rate is actually super impressive for an E-ink display! But...I think this tech is still best used exclusively for reading, specifically without scrolling. It has a long way to go before it can be suitable for use as a computer monitor, even if it's only for word processors.
I thought the same, it's impressive!
It's actually great for handwritten notes too! Due to how the technology works you can have genuinely intent response times with the right type of pen (if it's optimised for it). You see this tech in the remarkable line of products and some android e ink like boox devices.... However it really only good for doodles ans writing, if you're writing a journal or math notes perfect, if you're trying to draw detailed work you'll quickly go into limitations
I would not mind putting this on my server PC, or an Arch Linux machine!
I'm actually incredibly interested in this monitor because, as an accountant, staring at Excel sheets and Word docs is a lot of my job
But without anti-aliasing, the B/W and no shades is really useless. The resolution would need to be much much higher than 3K on the 23"
The differences in the details in the new content is clear as day. Great work! Excited to see more videos with this level of thoroughness and attention to detail
Fwiw, they filmed this over a month ago
This would be a super useful second or better yet third monitor. As someone who reads a ton of multi hundred page PDF for work, this would be very useful. The documents are usually already in black-and-white, the pages are large and full of text, and I could honestly get away with one hertz refresh, and I wouldn’t have to be converting it to KindlePDF and sending it via the cloud to read it on my Kindle, which is what I’m currently trying to do and is not always secure enough for internal documents.
Kind of unfortunate that they didn't do a demo for command-line usage (since you can view data a page at a time with PageUp/Down instead of scrolling). Would be very nice for sysadmin type work, especially with a black on white shell theme.
My thoughts exactly, seems like an excellent arch linux monitor
but only CRT hurt eyes, now monitors hurt your eye because you look a lot of time in 1 point
when was the last time you even saw a CRT display in use? @@ALPHABYTE64
@@tripplefives1402 VIM users would totally be all over this
@@l-space1368
Yesterday.
But to be fair, I was at an arcade that had some old machines
When a colour display comes out, this sounds fairly useful when programming for long hours. You would just need a second monitor depending on the program youd be testing.
Yeah without colour it really does have limited uses.
I could use light mode! Dude, I wish Linus tested it with JetBrains or VScode. Both of those handle sub pixels. The color one could be amazing.
Yeah I was thinking about how awesome a color version would be for programming. But for a more wallet friendly price though...
Also seems brilliant for SAAS product admins, such as Salesforce Admins who stare at a fairly static web browser most of the time
it's good for displaying picture that was changing every hours,
therefore you can set your mood easily
Everyone asks, "Can it play Crysis?"
No one asks the real question, "Should it play Crysis?"
Might actually be easier on the PC due to the low refresh rate.
I could see the colour version being useful for displays that arent playing a video either in stores or museum's and event spaces things like food menus and stuff where theres a need to update it but you wanna save power instead of having loads of tvs going.
Holy crap. Now you gotta tonemap SDR, so it looks good on this display! Crazy. Windows used to have a 256 gray. I wonder if you used this monitor on an older Windows setup how that'd look.
@LTT - seems like a plan for another video.
Just run Windows 3.11
3.11 lacks hdmi support ;)
@@nietmijnechtenaam2477 No prob, use a VGA -> HDMI Adapter :D
Knowing Microsoft, it's still there in the depths of Windows, just no longer used by most applications. I imagine pretty much everything these days calls DirectX for its display based rendering shenanigans. Weather that's one of the features still within DX is something I'd be intrigued to know though! I guess few things will flag with this colour mode these days even if it is there.
I remember that a professor in my university had an e-ink monitor in his office like 10 years ago. He used it in portrait mode to read papers and other pdfs. Of course it wasn't its primary monitor, as it was only used for reading. As an engineer I see this product quite usefull, because most of the references that I need to check are on PDF, and an e-ink display is more natural and comfortable for that, than a regular monitor.
It's (to most) a nearly insignificant change, but the way you're handling 2:12 makes me very very happy! I absolutely love it
E-ink displays seem like they would do really well for things like a graphing calculator where things change slowly and need to be retained for a long time. I'd love to have or build a device that has something like a big square E-ink panel with some sort of fast microprocessor like a Pi Pico on Teensy 4 to crank out big graphs for things, and given the power of those microcontrollers, and the potential for color output, even if it is 1-bit color (8 colors) that is still 6 graphs that don't match my axis lines, and those microcontrollers should be able to handle 3D rotations in real time as well. Just having each corner, face, or edge of a cube for view points of graphs would be huge, and you could refresh the whole screen after each refresh to render those whole big frames.
I think Casio made one with a Color e ink display
I hope this becomes a thing. As a programmer, I'd welcome a monitor based on eink. But there needs to be a bit more work on this first. I like reading on my old Kobo, but it seems to render fonts better than this monitor, somehow.
Programming is what I was thinking about. I'm not one, so it's not for me, but I can see it's application.
For programming I feel that color is required
Actually.. no
If you want to run your code and oops change one thing in code, you have to push the clear button near every 4 sec.
It would be frustrating because the project window will be beurned in ince your run your app
@@kikihun9726you run your app on the other monitor. This one would be just for the code. I bet it would work great with vim.
@@kikihun9726 It would be fine if it could detect when it needed a refresh, like how kobo will do it every X pages or every chapter. It's certainly got a long way to go before I'd even look at it for anything other than reading currently.
The second monitor usecase kinda sounds amazing; I typically have a second monitor dedicated to just displaying reference documents,having something like this for text could be amazing, especially with the bonus that it is one less glowing screen in my face.
not sure it's worth the cost. any LCD display at low backlight should be enough, and you can find cheap 60hz (that's more than enough if you don't play games TBO.) monitors nowadays in many sizes and resolutions.
@@Bass2styleright now it obviously is not worth the cost
I hoped they would test the scenario of using it side by side with an LCD monitor because when one monitor is conspicuously brighter it's distractive and probably makes it more straining and frustrating to focus on the reflective monitor instead, and I don't know how much the front light will help in this case.
exactly, while the cost is ridiculously high right now. If it were to ever become reasonable, that's how I pictured it's use case. Instead they just spent 15 minutes trying to use it for everything it's obviously not meant for.@@lyfiatea
Yes, as a kid i would've use it for list of GTA cheat codes :D
Given enough time and generational improvement in terms of color and refresh speed/rate it would be my go to for programming. I spend hours every day at the screen and something like this could be the difference between needing glasses and not. Looking forward to taking a look at this product category over the next few years.
I know they're saying it's terrible as a video monitor but that looks so good compared to what I expected. E-ink has come a long way and I think that's very interesting since it doesn't have a big market compared to the other technologies
Edit; that cost way more than I thought lol
I would totally get this monitor as a second display… if it was the same price or cheaper than a normal display.
I completely agree, I can’t wait for the price of this tech to come down and become available to the general public
Yeah it is the price that it holds back. If its cheaper, even though its not a grea experience for general purpose. But for more specific use case, this will going to sell decently. This will end up as a 2nd monitor mainly for documents, novels and even reading mangas.
no you wouldn't
It would be great for reading research papers
@@drybonesGCNas someone who does a lot of reading, yes. Yes I would.
As a long-time Kindle user the refresh on this thing is pretty impressive in terms of the speed. What's really interesting is the colour version, though. I read a fair few digital comics on my Fire, and I'd far prefer to be able to read them using e-ink. The question is whether those displays will have proper colour accuracy or whether we're just looking at 4 colours, which would still be a big jump.
I would really like a colored e-ink Android device considering my reading apps for basically everything are Android only
id imagine its still just 4 colors, otherwise they would have to get the cells way smaller so they could use them as subpixels
Colour e-ink displays are washed out and limited, much like mass market paper comics are (or, at least, used to be, it's been a couple of decades since I read one), so I'd say they're fine. I'm not sure if they can produce small splotches of colour similar to to the way color was done in magazines and newspapers in the beforetime, but that could increase the apparent colour pallete.
@@ZedDevStuff onyx boox makes a color eink tablet running android 11
4096 colors on kaleido 3 the tab ultra c is pretty awesome as far as eink tablets go
Android 11 and at least 15 fps on the fastest refresh mode comics are pretty good on it in my opinion
I'm super excited to see how this develops in the future, hopefully it gets to the point where it gets to around 60fps.
I have wondered for years why there weren't e-ink monitors for coders and programmers as a side monitor. I always figured it would be way easier to code and program using one. I do a ton of MSSQL work and would love an e-ink monitor for looking at the tables and dbs and query editors.
I also think they could be ideal for programming. If IntelliJ specifically supported them, for example, so that the text looks as crisp as on an e-book reader, then I would see a lot of potential for companies buying them and consequently the price becoming more reasonable.
Before the pandemic hit, my D&D game experimented with using a regular monitor for maps, instead of printing them, or drawing them on a wet-erase mat. The biggest problem was viewing angle and my thought since then was that some sort of large panel e-ink display would be perfect for that usecase
$2000 though.
@@EmergencyChannel yeah, the tech is still too expensive for that, though 2k for a fully functional monitor is already an improvement over that same cost (or more) for just the panel without anything that drives it
unrelated but i love your profile picture
How about a projector hanged from above
@@hedgehog_dilemma That requires a much more permanent installation that a monitor that can be brought in just before the game, then returned to storage
It would be cool if they were able to use eye tracking to sync up the screen refreshes with your blinks (once the refresh speed is improved of course)
love this idea
That’s actually a really good idea
and refresh the parts of the screen fast and the rest slower
since on einks, the more pixels you refresh the slower it is. so refresh your peripheral vision slower
Brilliant! Especially because you could refresh on demand with your blink as an input. Might as well sense squinting too.
Eink will be usable for desktop once 4 things happen:
1. 30 Hz refresh rate (double this display's max)
2. Windows itself would have to support the technology, with things like the restoration of alternate text rendering modes and a 1bpp monochrome color depth mode, and the ability to tell the display which rectangle regions of the display buffer have been updated, so only those get erased/refreshed.
3. Smarter, and lower latency eink display controllers that can respond quickly to things like an eye tracker sensor.
4. Likely the panels used on these displays are driven at a fairly low voltage to keep energy usage as efficient as possible. The likely sacrifice here is picture clarity. A desktop display needs no such sacrifice. So the panel itself should likely be driven with a stronger current to increase the forces that move the eink particles around, within reason. This is likely to also make higher refresh rates possible, while avoiding an unacceptable amount of ghosting. There have to be eink displays rated for it, that won't break under that extra pressure. Doing this to an ordinary eink will significantly reduce the lifespan of the panel, since it's effectively a massive overclock + overvolt. It'd take significantly tighter manufacturing constraints to cancel out that drawback.
Honestly, it's tough to imagine Microsoft supporting such a thing. A lot of Windows software has stopped respecting ClearType settings since it was introduced in XP, among them various of Microsoft's own frameworks and libraries, and monochrome mode was already on the way out by Windows 3.1, which dooms desktop einks to obscurity.
I actually would like something like this on a budget just for displaying like a calendar and to-do list. I can't deal with physical versions, and hate how such important things are tucked away deep into my OS.
A cheap, cut down version for use as a digital calendar that would sync with outlook or your phone would be cool.
@@robinbegley1077 This already exists, although not necessarily as a ready-built product. Search "Using E Ink displays with a Raspberry Pi" if you want that
For web scrolling, you can bind "page up/page down" keys to the refresh keys, that way you can kind of scroll and keep the display refreshed. :)
Oh! This would also be great for the linux command line and server use, and definitely for coding. But it needs to use some of the other e-ink tech that adds colours like red and yellow.
In theory I 100% agree, but the tech isn't fully there yet... For a Linux command line, sure this is awesome, but I don't think I could use this for coding with all of that ghosting. For the text itself, whatever, but I can imagine the ghosting getting really distracting, when you have LSP errors/messages or something getting displayed inline, and you always have to clear it manually to really see what's going on.
You could also just use... GUNNAR GLASSES! (Seriously though... their natural focus makes text easier to read and somehow... more contrasting even. I have regular glasses at home and Gunnar at work, and they work FANTASTIC.)
i agree! there are colored e-ink displays already, but they’re rare and there’s not much investment in this segment
I was thinking the same thing. I currently have a secondary monitor in portrait I use just for editing code and the thought of it being e-ink made my poor abused eyes very happy.
I wanted one of those for coding and studying to reduce eye strain, but man, large e-ink displays are really expensive.
I'm using their smaller version (13") for almost a year, it is a godsend for programming. Takes a little time to get used to but switching off all backlight is so easy on eyes.
I was thinking that would probably be one of the best case scenario for this monitor.
If you want a display just to write.
I don't think this was ever intended to browse the web or watch videos.
@@RomainDelmaire or if you stare at the same picture a lot like a flowchart, TODO list, tutorial etc. You can see that use case with their coloured eink monitor. Hope the tech improves a bit more for coding though.
It sounds like a lot of office work, typing word documents, filling out forums, sending email could be totally doable with this or the new color version. If it helps reduce eye strain and keep workers from wondering off to the internet, that's not as hard a business sell. @@RomainDelmaire
bro what about syntax highlighting
@@mihailmojsoski4202 turns out I can live without it! I've tried disabling it on my laptop before just to see how brain will react and after 2-3 days I felt no difference, source code is still perfectly readable.
A benefit of a reflective display could be to use it outside without having to fight against the sun on luminosity.
Great point. Why fight the light when you can use it to your advantage!
i can see this become a very good alternative for office work, once some things are resolved. Ever tried to write something like a thesis with 6-8h in front of the display?
Love that you covered an e-ink display. It is interesting that your criticisms of the monitor and DASUNG's claims are absolutely justified due to the lack of research on e-ink's effectiveness, but my anecdotal experience does back up a lot of their claims. I've been using a DASUNG as my primary monitor for >2 years and it has completely changed my life. I have some kind of medical condition where even adhering to the 20-20-20 rule I will suffer headaches with prolonged LED display usage. However, I can happily stare at this monitor for hours on end, and use it all day if combined with the 20-20-20 rule. It has comically increased my productivity and permitted a career change into coding-heavy work. Aside from high-fps gaming, I do everything (including watching this video) on this monitor. The experience is certainly sub-optimal, but I am completely used to it at this point and only notice the difference when forced to use an LED monitor.
damn, hearing about people that actually use these type of monitors is shocking for me. i dont think i could live with a monitor with no color settings, just grayscale.
I’m glad you have had a good experience but this technology has a long way to go to be viable for a wider market, it has promise but the contrast and frame rate needs to be improved, especially since this monitor isn’t as good as other e-ink screens. The best hope is that this inspires someone like amazon to do it better
@@ThisWillCharacter Good points but as a first generation product in a new niche, it's a good start.
@@MrDacedric it is but it’s a steam deck situation where a smaller scale product gives a proof of concept that’s a bit rough around the edges for a large company that’s already experienced with adjacent tech to swoop in and take everything learned from that initial product niche, clean it up and release it to a wider market, leaving the original product in the dust. I’m not saying that’s what’s happened yet with the steam deck either but it’s inevitable once the laptop manufacturers get invested into handhelds
Actually our local supermarket is using tiny color e-ink displays on each product to show prices.
For long time I thought its just normal paper like in all other stores, but last week I saw it changing.
It looks amazing, and since e-ink does not use power when not changing content it can save a lot of money
on both power delivery for those devices and employee labor for manually swapping price tags whenever price changes.
And its important since here in Poland our inflation is so insane that prices of everything is changing at least once a month, and sometimes even more often.
It's pretty common here in the Netherlands, has been for a couple of years. Great use of technology :).
Now I want this here in Switzerland!
bruh poland's inflation has nothing to do with Argentina's. Here prices change every week, or days... we're screwed, you've got 10% anual inflation, we... 100+% 🤯
@@Tiago_Ferrari 10% is the propaganda.
The actual inflation is around 25%.
But true, it's still less than your.
I use an e-ink drawing tablet for all of my notes at work, and it has changed the game for me. No more piles of legal pads, it's all on 1 device (and in the cloud).
I don't think I'd be interested in a desktop monitor that uses e-ink, but I love that it's a thing at all.
00:00 🖥 The Dasung Paperlike U253 is a 25.3-inch curved monitor with a 3K resolution that uses E Ink technology, aimed at reducing eye strain.
01:53 🧲 E Ink technology suspends charged pigment particles in a capsule filled with fluid, controlled by transparent electrodes. The monitor has a maximum refresh rate of 15 Hertz.
03:19 🎛 The monitor includes features like a two-port USB hub, audio jack, height adjust, pivot, swivel, and multiple ports (display port, USB-C, HDMI).
05:19 📊 Text and graphics on the monitor may exhibit ghosting and limited contrast, affecting readability. Dark mode may not provide a better experience.
08:18 🔄 The monitor's refresh rate is low, around 4 frames per second, making it unsuitable for video playback or gaming.
13:19 👁 Claims that the monitor is beneficial for myopia or digital eye strain are disputed, and it's emphasized that proper eye care practices are essential. The monitor is priced at $2,000.
14:19 🎮 The video demonstrates challenges with using the monitor for gaming due to slow refresh rates and contrast issues.
as a second or third monitor I could totally see this being awesome. I'd love it as a 45 degree desk monitor below my normal monitors to throw reference material onto.
why would you put up diagonally though
Stm32CubeIDE on one monitor, stackoverflow on second, stm32 refman on the e-ink. Perfection!
45 degrees?!
In a smaller portrait format this could be really good for a dedicated word processing/study/research monitor, or to have off to the side in a gaming set up to monitor text chats or voice calls. I'd love maybe a 17" portrait version of this for that sort of thing.
I mean, that is what remarkable tablet is pretty much, but yes. Like a focus only typewriter sort of thing it would be amazing.
I'm very interested in the color version. That has the potential to be very useful for programming
I always wondered why my kindle paper white refreshed so oddly. I learned something new!
I've been lucky enough to see this thing up close and working on my Labs tour during LTX! Even the "slow" 15 Hz refresh rate feels like a game changer for e-ink. For all its shortcomings I'm still very interested to see what some more R&D can accomplish for this tech in a few years!
Having used the web browser on Kindles a bit, I was surprised to see how acceptable 15 Hz looks. With less ghosting I could totally live with it.
It can make sense as something that requires NO power in between 'refresh' cycles 2 display text 4 an E-Reader tablet, but other than that, especially when U R 'wall powered' it's completely absurd & pointless. If U want 'low contrast themes' it's E Z 2 replicate the exact 'shading' of 'E-Ink' with ANY flat panel monitor or TV, like U can send it black & white (greyscale), turn down the 'backlight' brightness & reduce the 'contrast' & so on. If your monitor has no 'greyscale' mode U can just lower the 'color saturation' controls 2 zero on all 3 = same thing. Surprised Linus didn't show he can get the same look but with BETTER performance (refresh, etc.) with any random cheap monitor =P
@@Deathrape-if4kltrust me, it's not the same. Kindle screens feel MUCH more like paper than what you're describing.
@@Deathrape-if4klI don't think you realize just how much power this thing would save even by being wallpowered. Like, it wouldn't be using all that much power while attached to a wall.
A monitor like this was already available a fee years ago IIRC. At this point I think the cost is a bigger issue than the tech. I would have one of these as a second monitor right now if it was affordable. 2k is too much.
Literally checked 10 mins ago if LTT hadn't posted any new video cuz I was bored. The second I decide to hit the sack, I check my phone, and here I am.
Glad to see you back Linus !
There is actually one place where eink could be extremely useful in gaming..
In the face buttons on controllers.. So your computer can change what the buttons say.
the issues you showed on the monitor remind me a lot of using remote desktop over a really bad connection but i am excited to see what future versions of the device bring
This content style is something I missed from LTT for many years. Entertaining and viewers learnt something. There were many more entertaining hardware reviews in recent years, but viewers didn't learn anything in those. At some point, I only stayed on because I didn't find any creator doing better in this audience segment. This is a very good video. Welcome back LTT.
The quality of this video is a great improvement. I am looking forward to LTT's future.
@Myflag2022 tbf though the video was produced before the break
This video was made before their break. Literally nothing changed XD
I know Linus keeps repeating about ensuring learning outcomes even on the "look at this cool thing" videos. I wouldn't say they haven't done it in a while, but things like "what's a JBOD", or "why not use a SAN" are things they've covered a couple of times before so the recent videos weren't as informative for long-time fans, but we're still educational for newer or occasional viewers.
hello shills
Good to see the citations in the description! Along with cross references in the video, it's good to see you putting action to what you discussed previously.
As an amateur and aspiring author, I think this would be amazing for extended writing sessions. It would prevent the eye strain of a normal monitor focusing that I do, which feels significantly different than normal browsing or even gaming.
As a stopgap, changing your word processor to dark mode goes a long way, in my experience. (Also a writer)
@@musicman24X For some reason, I didn't think of that! Thanks! I'm going to go ahead and do it now so I don't forget.
@martineg3gaming490 You're welcome! I used to change my page and font colors until support for night mode became included. I still have a plug-in for displaying Google Docs
@@musicman24X
Ngl, I didn't even think Word and the like even *had* a dark mode XD
Often I need to read a lot of pdf's in form of documentation or contracts. Using an e-ink display would be very beneficial in that regard. I really hope they can fix the screens sluggishness for writers in form of a driver update. If they manage that, they have a fantastic product!
Most non-kindle (I mean more open) E-in ebook readers can read PDF. I got mine only cause it had Android, disable the "e-book" crap of software and installed standard tools (foxit-reader, total-cmd etc.). Not best due to being Android, but can work.
If You will get lucky You may even get an Android base "e-book" reader which will be able to run X-server. My can't do that. If it would be a case, it will behave like a display+keyboard combo for Your Linux based PC.
I like that the editor made sure the labels were in the same orientation and order as what they were labelling onscreen. Like the plugs on the bottom of the monitor, the labels were vertical and in the same order as the plugs on screen and it made it super easy to know what everything was
Welcome back Linus, I've missed you. This was a really great video and I can't wait to see what's next. Keep up the good work.
@@jeremytine Who? Never heard of them. You must be imagining things, maybe your mind is playing tricks on you.
@@jeremytine I don't sort my videos by popularity at all, never really cared about the analytics of it. I'm proud their video made it into the top five though.
This is the quality level video I have been waiting for from the LTT team. Thank you LTT team.
WOW! Great refresh rate!
I can see some great use cases for it.
Ever since I got myself a kindle years ago, I keep checking if we're there yet with eink displays for computers; specifically for coding. this particular brand and monitor has been under my radar for some time, so this is probably the most useful video I've ever seen from this channel, in my own subjective set of interests of course, thanks. On a related note, I once bought an off brand eink replacement screen for my friend's kindle when her screen was cracked. the most interesting thing about that transaction was that the screen came in with ads already on it haha. they flashed an ad and shipped it as is, which I think is ingenious since it needs energy to change the image, not to keep it on the screen.
Flashing an ad into an eink screen is just cheeky enough that it's not annoying.
So glad yall are back! You got me into my tech career as a technician and I’m so glad you’re back!!!
The new color version would work really nicely as a screen for workflow charts, like kanbanflow.
I’ve always been interested in eink. Can’t wait to see you do the colored one!
The 1:32 chapter has a typo, it should be works, not words. Also 4:50, web, not wed.
Fixed!
Super cool! Love to see these kinds of interesting videos. I’ve used so many e-ink pads in my life but never really knew how they worked. Great video
I know someone who can’t look at LCD screens (something something eye something) and this would be PERFECT for them. I’m guessing that’s their target user base.
Fun little idea for the 20 20 20 rule for your office buildings. Unless you already do this.
Sit in every office seat and place a marker 20 feet away for the team member to turn and look at to assist with eye refocusing.
maybe even make a game of it somehow.
The colour version will be interesting, especially as a second monitor where you have documents loaded for reference (or to read while making notes, like a textbook).
A color version, you mean.. like a standard monitor?
@@djurdjepavlovic It would be an eInk colour display.
Not as good as a standard monitor but better than the greyscale effort shown in the video.
Reflecting light, like a a book with color. Like the Moon ≠ Sun.
@@robindp It would work quite well as a TV menu a coffee shop or to display train times etc.
imagine buying this as a twitch chat monitor
There are definitely good uses for things like this, especially a colour version. That it saves energy is also convenient for public use displays that are always on - think of a directory in a mall, for example. You don't need a high refresh rate on those.
Some stores, like Chapters/Indigo in Canada, also provide computers to customers so they can search inventory and location. E-ink monitors could be useful there, too.
library monitors for searching might be good too
It only makes sense if the price is about 1/10 what they are currently asking, because right now at $2,000 you can even get a full size flat panel HDTV & run it for literally more than 20 years & still end up paying less between power & hardware & all that jazz. Do the math =)
@@christina4941 That's a very good point. Apart from cost saving, e-readers can be more aesthetically appealing in a library and feels more blend in.
My guy you missed like the entire selling point of the eInk display
@@Deathrape-if4kl Obviously. Like all tech, if it catches on the price will drop and will be more viable in everyday use. That wasn't my point.
Going to get one of these just to
1) Play Witcher: The Book: The Game
2) Watch A-ha's take on me look like a kidnapping
3) Get lost in some page turning pornography
OMFG. That second point is golden!
Lmfao
3:20
precisely when linus remembered they are trying to be more detail oriented.
I love e ink, I would honestly use this for typing & spreadsheet work type stuff. I think there's a lot of people who do written and editing based work who stare at screens for, well, most of their waking life and this might be a huge eye saver as a second monitor (if it weren't goofy expensive)
How does it actually save your eyes though? Just the sky outside is probably so many times brighter than your monitor, so does looking at the sky also hurt your eyes?
@@venturoes1912 not a clue. but I can say from a utilitarian perspective I feel better spending hours reading a book, drawing, or reading on an e-ink tablet than looking at a computer screen. Not like I feel particularly bad looking at a computer screen - I'm not someone who thinks its going to rot your brain or do some conspiracy theory shit or whatever, but there is a difference. Not a $2000 difference though lol.
I really liked the "contesting their claims" chapter, well done!
In public libraries sometimes there's PCs for e-books and sorts. This could be really useful for them where color isn't always needed.
It is perfect for store displays showing prices, menus, airport arrival and departure displays, advertisements, etc. Basically mostly static things or things that dont need to refresh too often. I already see eink type displays used at Kohl's department stores for shelf pricing.
It also got built-in turn-page animation, no more awful animation it can’t display.
Is that a new buzzer alert 0:25 to go along with the "error" correction from the words spoken? I like it! its such a meaninless error that changes nothing about purchasing descisions as anyone who is likely to want EInk isnt going to care of its 3000 or 3200 pixels if they are doing audio only listening, but its enough of a audible trigger to say "hey, something was different on screen". Keep it up!
I could see this being useful in text-heavy applications, like reading papers, or copy editing. Things where the page isn't rapidly changing, and you would be staring at the screen for extended periods of time.
That colour version looks so cool, as a second or third monitor it could be amazing! I also wonder how code looks on these
The colour version sounds really awesome for programming and writing. I absolutely love e-book readers and being able to do more with that technology would be great. Plus such a monitor with a raspberry Pi (or something similar) would be very low power consumption for simple writing/programming. Will definitely follow the development.
Linus looks happier giving the Segway to his sponsor than I was getting accepted to college.
Your college must hate you then 😂😂😂
Lmao! Same :D
What is college? What is this wizardry the kids speak of!?...i never went to college....worst comment ever...f it. Hitting the airplane.
he must be loaded to be giving away free segways to all his sponsors
Segue, not segway
Nice to see a Kindle Scribe. I think its a extremely unrated product, especially with Amazon's regular sale pricing. It's replaced paper for almost all my note taking. Its got the most natural writing feel for any tablet/screen and have an excellent convert to text feature. I'd definitely recommend it to anyone who has to take a lot of notes or wants to get away from computer while writing.
I’ve been stuck deciding between the scribe, the remarkable and the Supernote
@@SimonLYW I don't know a lot about the supernote, looks like it has a bit more functionality, depending on use. But quite a bit more expensive. On a near Prime day sale, I was able to get the 16gb scribe and premium pen for just under $200. Thanks being a prime member and trading in a very old kindle.
This is well timed. I decided to move to an e-ink phone and have been using it for just over a week now. Aside from it being horribly slow, I also can't see different shades that well. Believe it or not, this is a result, I use my phone less, which is exactly why I bought it. I still have the communication apps I need, without the phone being a constant distraction.
In theory would this be good for static images like an airport schedule screen or a cafe menu?
In theory yes. Very low power consumption and good/acceptable viewing angles.
Absolutely! My hometown of Hamburg, Germany uses such displays as subway schedule signs in some places. It's works great and is very cool to look at!
@@22Tie22Also from Germany. Would be really interesting to see one on a picture, but was not able to find them. Where exactly are those located?
Lots of grocery stores already have them displaying prices on the shelves. Most people don't even realize they are screens though
@@22Tie22 that’s cool I didn’t know places were already rolling out that kind of stuff! I haven’t seen any in the US anywhere but it’s great to see some at least happen to use it, seems like such a good idea.