I agree, though I think it is still correct to run some auras, particularly the ones that cantrip themselves and the ones that give totem armor, because they either replace themselves or completely null your argument about you losing more cards than your opponent.
Honestly. All of the targeted removal has me thinking about a possible magecraft tribal deck. And to balance out the removal you could put in storm effect spells
I feel like common isn’t just common as rate of appearance but also in playability and so forth for each card. Mythic rares are great and all but they usually aren’t versatile and there’s constituent that go with em
I agree 100% that Killian Voltron is a trap. I like the idea of using him as a sort of "medallion" (i.e., the 2 cmc artifacts that reduce casting cost by 1, e.g., Emerald Medallion). One note, though: Sigarda might be even more viable than Uril since she shuts off edict effects. I'm with you that Voltron is an uphill battle, though.
@@acematrixow the 50% enchantress contains the creatures in the form of of enchantment creatures and enchantment support. Why would you reply to a 2y old comment? Holy s***
Killian tech cards: 1. Blessing of Leeches - With Killian out on the battlefield, this card becomes a single black mana, instant speed trick that can save a key creature from any number of destruction effects, including combat. 2. Enslave - While 6 mana is quite steep for this effect, a 4 mana control magic in black is far more appealing, especially if your opponents' strategies heavily rely on their commanders. 3. Fell the Mighty - Becomes a 3 mana partial board wipe, since its effect targets a creature. 4. Eerie Interlude / Semester's End - Become a single white mana to protect any number of non-token creatures and rebuy ETB effects. 5. Toshiro Umezawa / Mavinda, Student's Advocate - Great for rebuying targeted removal / pump / protection spells. (Works incredibly well with rebound spells, although few targeted ones exist)
Check the decklist as I do include a Semester's End in there. 1. An even better card in this deck is Dark Dabbling as it's a cantrip. 2. 4 CMC is still very expensive. Compare to a Darksteel Mutation that would only cost 1 with Killian. 3. It won't kill a lot of very good Commanders like Thrasios, Tymna, Vial Smasher, Urza and Yawgmoth - it's too situational. 4. Semester's End is worth it because it can save a Liliana and they all come back stronger. Eeerie Interlude is just okay unless you have a lot of ETB effects. 5. Great suggestion in Mavinda - I will consider adding it.
Killian is a puzzle that will take time to unravel. Auras are always a cheap way to make smaller commanders into bigger threats, but I think it’ll take some time to work out a Killian-as-Prowess list. Control pieces do become better with him, but how best to take advantage of that?
People seem to forget that there are plenty of expensive cards that target creatures in the graveyard. Revival theft Killian is so wacky, and good fun to bring to any commander pod. It certainly won't evoke the same saltiness as the deck that removes someone turn 5 with an 10/10 Infect, Menace, Flying, Lifelink, Trample Killian. EDIT: A bit of research has shown me that this might not work with creatures in the graveyard, as they might not be considered creatures but rather, creature cards in the graveyard. I have no idea as to whether or not this is true, but that's something worth consideration
My only thought about your list is that Killian needs a few more bits of protection so you can really maximise your opportunity of having reduced costed spells in the long game. Unquestioned authority or giver of runes to provide protection perhaps?
TH-cam pushed your Obuun video to me and I really liked it. It doesn't look like you upload as frequently as other mtg channels but here i am, subscribing eagerly.
I’d surely go target removal /pacifism-like aura for Killian in 1v1. I don’t see that strategy to work with 4 players; but, combining target removal and zombies might be a good idea, I just think you’d want as many removal as possible, so probably go tokens And Sigarda is extremely close to Uril if not better, you can make me sacrifice Uril… good luck in even removing Sigarda, she dies only to Mass Removal
I have been working on building this and then I found Eriette of the Charmed Apple. I can see the two going really well together but now I just can't figure out which goes in the 99 and which gets to command the deck.... Help?
I do like the idea of a zombie tribal deck with this guy, though I'm more inclined to use the Scarab God or Varena for that one. As for Voltron, my Geist of Saint Traft deck does alright.
I think that with either approach to Killian as the commander you are still putting yourself into an uphill battle. The voltron route puts all of your eggs into one basket, while the removal route puts you into a one for one battle with three other players. So without any built in card advantage I don't see Killian coming out ahead on any turn cycle
We can certainly make up for the card Advantage deficiency in other ways. And how you play the game will determine how much of a threat you are perceived by your three opponents. Oh hey, I made a whole video about how to not get targeted.
I politely disagree. Yes, it is one or two creatures removed per card. But Orzhov has many ways to benefit from that destruction: Mana ramp such as Black Market and Revel in Riches, card draw such as Casting of Bones and Harvester of Souls, life drain through Blood Artist, and even building your own army through Grave Betrayal or Elenda, The Dusk Rose. In a vacuum, I agree. Eventually you will run out of gas. But if that one death trigger nets you mana, cards, drains your opponents, and you gain a creature, then it puts you in a far superior board state. Effective deck building is always about optimizing synergies.
@@waynefeller8824 yeah having synergy in the deck is always important, but having a cost reduction in the command zone is less valuable than having a win con, means to advance your boardstate, or card draw in the command zone. Like with Liesa Shroud of Dusk, Thalisse Reverent Medium, or Firja Judge of Valor
@@crovax1375 - I do see your point. But look at it this way: you can play Killian early, set up your reward cards, then take advantage of the cost reduction. When Killian dies, it doesn't affect your win cons, and you already have enough resources to dominate. The commanders you mentioned have a much heavier CMC, and have to be protected and/or brought back, which means dedicating more card slots to protection, and paying mana or life to replay them, since they are vital to your wincon. And this means they carry a target on their head for removal. Between needing to survive to late game, and having fewer interactive pieces due to the need to add protection, I don't see the advantage those commanders bring at the Helm. I feel like you are advocating a specific build style, one where the key deck strategy revolves around keeping the commander in play. I have many decks like this. But I also build decks where I can win without ever playing my commander. Many efficient and competitive decks can just as easily win without their Generals sticking around. Killian allows for just such a build.
@@waynefeller8824 I could see that speed being great in a 1v1 match, but not in a 4 player. I just see the Killian player racing to second place, even if the synergy engine is assembled
A 5/5 with Flying and Hexproof (and can't be forced to sacrifice it) certainly has some great survivability. Personally, I would probably use the big "Swords Of..." instead of Auras, but I could see her eliminating some opponents with Commander damage. Good suggestion.
I honestly like Sigard, host of herons as an amazing voltron commander, not only does it have hexproof and flying but protection from sac effects as well.
@@Aristocards tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-05-21-GwO-eight-and-a-half-swords/ Here is what I'm currently running! check it out! its nickname is eight-and-a-half swords! sorry for the late reply lol I just saw you commented! Oh and you bet your bottom I'm adding the newest sword to the deck haha!
Pretty interesting idea. I just saw Killian yesterday and I've been thoroughly enjoying scryfall searches. He's cheap to replay, has amazing access to removal and protection, and beyond that he's super open ended The win con part is what I'm still exploring. I think voltron, non-voltron combat, or combo could be viable depending on the power level / meta / context My play group is interactive, I know I'd get blown out if I tried Killian voltron xD
A few suggestions: Black Market Revel in Riches Grave Betrayal Elenda, The Dusk Rose Athreos, Shroud Veiled Blood Artist Blade of the Bloodchief Deathgreeter Demon of Dark Schemes
bit late to the party, and still at the 2 minute mark. I have a 15 euro deck (excl. commander) with Uril at the helm....so far the only thing that stopped it was Meren when it had it's annoyin plaguecrafter-ish loops going. ( i really dislike the whole sacrifice thingy). I think Killian might be on par with Feather, but feather might be more durable since you usually have a bigger hand at your disposal.
To my shame I have included a little bit of voltron in my killian list (archidekt.com/decks/1306941#[Killian_EDH]_It's_Time_to_Ink_D-D-D-Duel). I do have thoughts: -I don't think anyone wears a Hatred quite like Killian. Three mana, instant speed, and lifelink is just straight player removal. Just be mindful of your playgroup and if this is a card that'd be okay to run. Most people aren't cool with "oops i killed you" cards. Means you gotta sit there and wait for the other three people to finish up. That being said, the game's gotta end eventually, and it'd sure be nice if we won. -Fell the Mighty is Killian's go-to boardwipe. How often do you get to pay 3 mana for a (good) boardwipe? -If you're really committed to the voltron strategy, I highly recommend Myth Realized. Even without the auras and looking at the heavy removal package Killian likes, Myth can get huge and it'll stick around for quite a while. -On that note, if you care about cast triggers, Grind // Dust is two casts, and is essentially "1{W}{B}: exile two target creatures." Depending how the game is going, you may even be able to hold off on casting the other side later. Just throw out the counters and let the other half be a rattlesnake, or see how your opponents act when their creatures have a timebomb strapped to them. -One of the ways Black can get access to artifact removal is through turning artifacts into creatures. It has a handful of ways to do this but for my money, my favorite is Karn, the Great Creator. The Null Rod effect stapled to him is just gravy. You could probably get the same level of efficiency with Xenic Poltergeist. -There's a couple spells that Killian just straight-up makes free. Phyrexian mana is one avenue you can take, Dismember and Apostle's Blessing will always make it out of your hand. I was also looking at Liturgy of Blood, which can refund itself. Couldn't quiiiiite bring myself to run that one, personally, but I'm sure that someone out there will appreciate my throwing it out into the aether. -I think you should always run Null Profusion when you can but this removal-heavy mana-light strategy is gonna throw a lot of cards around and run out of gas quickly without something keeping it going. White/Black isn't a huge fan of instant/sorcery recursion, and the only ones I found that I liked were Shrouded Lore and Deliver Unto Evil. With the latter, you'll almost usually get back two removal spells (cuz guess what your GY's full of XD). With Shrouded Lore though, you better be a quick talker or have a decent pile of swamps untapped. I've yet to be worried about that one. -Sometimes you don't wanna kill something!! Enslave is a control magic in black with an upside, and you can really make someone go "wait what" with Debt of Loyalty coming out of left field!! The Vow and Impetus cycles are lovely cards to drop on someone else's stuff, and Minion's Return can snipe someone's dying creature. Finally, Dark Dabbling is a bad card at 3 mana, but a potentially playable one at 1 mana. Note that 1: it doesn't need to target your thing, and 2: if you target someone else's thing, you still get your board regenerated. Keep your eyes posted for moments where you can cut a deal and get some politic points. Now all we need is for less people to want to run cards that say "can't be regenerated" (sigh).
agree voltron strategies tho i have won some with my Killian is hard to put out. But only removal spells? mmmm i dont know if thats worth it, only the benefit of 2 less mana doesnt seem like much. Probably better to take advantage of the voltron aspect but i dont know. IS a good commander and cheap to build.
Would a Voltron strategy work if you where using Equipment Artifacts? I assume it doesn't work as paying for an equip cost means the card is already on the field and therefore isn't being cast. But when I looked for a definitive answer for this question I couldn't find anything. If this does work (which would surprise me), it would be more effective as the artifacts would stay on the field ready to be re-equipped when you replay your commander.
If you're referring to ETB (enter the battlefield) effects, the answer is "no". Creature spells don't target anything - even the Bestow mechanic will change a creature into an Aura enchantment spell. A creature spell is cast, then resolves (is now a permanent, not a spell) and then an ETB causes the "triggered effect".
You'll never be able to cast hacks for two mana with Killian alone though. It doesn't reduce for each creature it targets it reduced if it targets a creature. He will never be able to reduce the cost by more than two with killian alone
I have an Elsa the infinite Voltron deck that works with artifacts and I think it's pretty good and Voltron should be artifacts not enchantments that way it's not a two-for-one also like zurgo the helmsmasher.
I suppose you could use him in that way although most people use him to search for enchantments like necropotence. I don't really see him knocking anyone out with Commander damage though.
I’d go the combo route. One of my favorite combos is the Heliod/Ballista combo and black and white give you access to every tutor you need to find and protect the combo. I like this idea with Killian. Thanks for this.
So I know people always say that uril is the best aura voltron commander, but Bruna, light of the alabaster is hands down THE best, and I'll gladly fight anyone on that.
Bruna is very good for voltron, no argument there, especially with her access to blue for control. But Uril's hexproof makes him more consistent and access to green means you can ramp into him faster.
I’m still working on dialogue my in some cards , some are convenient place holders . But I run a aristocratic/ graveyard cycle heavy in target insttances and enchantments with several negate and indestructible cards people don’t like killian and he got killed a lot this way I can keep him in play with out taking action and keep cost down so atheors and hopefully two other mana limit cards don’t go off . I got 6 artifacts that don’t count as color identity and trigger land falls so one I don’t run into mana problem and two if it gose south or can’t get em out I trigger a bunch of land and switch strats or out spend the spell limits . I do need more draw cards if you have any recommendations
I would like to challenge your claim that Voltron is terrible besides Uril, because Auras are only half the strategy. Just look at Syr Gwyn’s synergy with Equipment. To blatantly claim a whole strategy is invalid, while not mentioning a huge factor in it, is ill advised and quite frankly shows a bias because you clearly did not look enough into the subject to have a fully fleshed out and reliable opinion.
I know this is old but as a voltron player mist stalker is too slow, I wouldn't touch it. My favorite voltron commanders is eisor, and ardenn partners, eisor has built in evasion and difficult to target, and ardenn can freely equip some of the most busted equipment in the game to a two drop bird by turn three.
This was my first deck I really got into. Lots of cards here I agree with. Definitely found the use of targeted removal and auras combined to keep things covered. A little revival and some exile creatures make it fun.
@@WilliamGap okay, you've defeated one out of three opponents. How do you think the other two are going to respond when they see this? You're now going to be fighting a two-front war.
While I agree with your position re Killian not being a good Voltron commander, I strongly disagree with Uril being the only candidate for a voltron General. The reason is that while it has pseudo hexproof, it is still hugely vulnerable to Edict effects, which are the bane of Voltron decks. Which is why I rejected Uril and went with Sigarda, Host of Herons for my Voltron deck. She has built in hexproof, evasion, and stops my opposition from making me sac her. Therefore, she is only vulnerable to sweepers (which is easily mitigateable with the correct auras) and nothing else. There is LITERALLY no other Commander that gives you that. Not even Uril. And if you place her within an Enchantress shell (which I've done) then not only are the auras your damage multipliers/combos they also are you your card engine when they are cast/ETB. It's not unusual for Sigarda to win by turn 6/7 (I've won turn 4 before) in a multi-player pod. In actual fact she won last Friday on turn 7 by being a 68/68 flying, unblockable, vigilant, lifegaining, counter doubling monster. Which all leads back to; yes, I agree that Killian isn't a good voltron commander which is why I'm going to use him with Daxos as the secret Commander 😉
I think you are undercutting voltron I see a strategy of using enhancements that return themselves back to the hand either for a cost or for free This takes away abit of the sting if your commander gets removed
Don't play auras that can cause you a two for one if your opponent has removal. Instead play cards that are overcosted and inefficient when you commander isn't in play (because of removal)
You still get a chance to respond to an opponent using instant speed removal. Plus, it's unlikely that Killian it will be the biggest threat at the table. Instant speed removal should be reserved for a player's win condition and if they waste it on someone like Killian, their threat assessment is off.
I love this guy! I'm still going to try aura Voltron.
Is the best build for him.
Same but I want a spattering of counters
I agree, though I think it is still correct to run some auras, particularly the ones that cantrip themselves and the ones that give totem armor, because they either replace themselves or completely null your argument about you losing more cards than your opponent.
There's also the ones that return back to your hand of they go to the GY
Honestly. All of the targeted removal has me thinking about a possible magecraft tribal deck. And to balance out the removal you could put in storm effect spells
Sometimes I feel the uncommons are better than the rares.
We won't complain tho
I feel like common isn’t just common as rate of appearance but also in playability and so forth for each card. Mythic rares are great and all but they usually aren’t versatile and there’s constituent that go with em
I agree 100% that Killian Voltron is a trap. I like the idea of using him as a sort of "medallion" (i.e., the 2 cmc artifacts that reduce casting cost by 1, e.g., Emerald Medallion).
One note, though: Sigarda might be even more viable than Uril since she shuts off edict effects. I'm with you that Voltron is an uphill battle, though.
Aristocards-''Stop making voltron try to work "
Myself, an intellectual - no? i dont think I will
Goading auras are where it's at too
I think you're right 👍
My killian is 50% enchantress and 50% target removal using janky and subpar auras and removal spells
I put myself under the restriction of no creatures too😂
@@acematrixow the 50% enchantress contains the creatures in the form of of enchantment creatures and enchantment support. Why would you reply to a 2y old comment? Holy s***
Killian tech cards:
1. Blessing of Leeches - With Killian out on the battlefield, this card becomes a single black mana, instant speed trick that can save a key creature from any number of destruction effects, including combat.
2. Enslave - While 6 mana is quite steep for this effect, a 4 mana control magic in black is far more appealing, especially if your opponents' strategies heavily rely on their commanders.
3. Fell the Mighty - Becomes a 3 mana partial board wipe, since its effect targets a creature.
4. Eerie Interlude / Semester's End - Become a single white mana to protect any number of non-token creatures and rebuy ETB effects.
5. Toshiro Umezawa / Mavinda, Student's Advocate - Great for rebuying targeted removal / pump / protection spells. (Works incredibly well with rebound spells, although few targeted ones exist)
Check the decklist as I do include a Semester's End in there.
1. An even better card in this deck is Dark Dabbling as it's a cantrip.
2. 4 CMC is still very expensive. Compare to a Darksteel Mutation that would only cost 1 with Killian.
3. It won't kill a lot of very good Commanders like Thrasios, Tymna, Vial Smasher, Urza and Yawgmoth - it's too situational.
4. Semester's End is worth it because it can save a Liliana and they all come back stronger. Eeerie Interlude is just okay unless you have a lot of ETB effects.
5. Great suggestion in Mavinda - I will consider adding it.
The internet has been a "Baron" wasteland without Aristocards.
Fantabulous!
Glad to see you posting regularly again. Hope everything is going well!
Killian is a puzzle that will take time to unravel. Auras are always a cheap way to make smaller commanders into bigger threats, but I think it’ll take some time to work out a Killian-as-Prowess list. Control pieces do become better with him, but how best to take advantage of that?
I run killian and let me tell you it dosent break the bank , my favorite part . .25 cent to 7 dollar cards are killer
I thought the same way when i first saw Killian...he isnt a Duelist if he is just going Voltron...
People seem to forget that there are plenty of expensive cards that target creatures in the graveyard. Revival theft Killian is so wacky, and good fun to bring to any commander pod. It certainly won't evoke the same saltiness as the deck that removes someone turn 5 with an 10/10 Infect, Menace, Flying, Lifelink, Trample Killian.
EDIT: A bit of research has shown me that this might not work with creatures in the graveyard, as they might not be considered creatures but rather, creature cards in the graveyard. I have no idea as to whether or not this is true, but that's something worth consideration
combine with tax creature like thalia and makes opponent pay more mana while your spells that targets doesnt feel the taxes cost
My only thought about your list is that Killian needs a few more bits of protection so you can really maximise your opportunity of having reduced costed spells in the long game. Unquestioned authority or giver of runes to provide protection perhaps?
Great to see you back!
TH-cam pushed your Obuun video to me and I really liked it. It doesn't look like you upload as frequently as other mtg channels but here i am, subscribing eagerly.
I was thinking about somewhat the same things as you when seeing Killian. gave you a sub :)
I’d surely go target removal /pacifism-like aura for Killian in 1v1. I don’t see that strategy to work with 4 players; but, combining target removal and zombies might be a good idea, I just think you’d want as many removal as possible, so probably go tokens
And Sigarda is extremely close to Uril if not better, you can make me sacrifice Uril… good luck in even removing Sigarda, she dies only to Mass Removal
I have been working on building this and then I found Eriette of the Charmed Apple. I can see the two going really well together but now I just can't figure out which goes in the 99 and which gets to command the deck.... Help?
Heroic seems like a cool theme (theros keyword)
Here here to another masterpiece by the Baron! Thanks for the video.
I do like the idea of a zombie tribal deck with this guy, though I'm more inclined to use the Scarab God or Varena for that one.
As for Voltron, my Geist of Saint Traft deck does alright.
2 mana for a 2/2 menace lifelink, pretty damn good so far, but that third ability, God damn that 3rd ability is nutty
I think that with either approach to Killian as the commander you are still putting yourself into an uphill battle. The voltron route puts all of your eggs into one basket, while the removal route puts you into a one for one battle with three other players. So without any built in card advantage I don't see Killian coming out ahead on any turn cycle
We can certainly make up for the card Advantage deficiency in other ways. And how you play the game will determine how much of a threat you are perceived by your three opponents. Oh hey, I made a whole video about how to not get targeted.
I politely disagree. Yes, it is one or two creatures removed per card. But Orzhov has many ways to benefit from that destruction: Mana ramp such as Black Market and Revel in Riches, card draw such as Casting of Bones and Harvester of Souls, life drain through Blood Artist, and even building your own army through Grave Betrayal or Elenda, The Dusk Rose.
In a vacuum, I agree. Eventually you will run out of gas. But if that one death trigger nets you mana, cards, drains your opponents, and you gain a creature, then it puts you in a far superior board state.
Effective deck building is always about optimizing synergies.
@@waynefeller8824 yeah having synergy in the deck is always important, but having a cost reduction in the command zone is less valuable than having a win con, means to advance your boardstate, or card draw in the command zone. Like with Liesa Shroud of Dusk, Thalisse Reverent Medium, or Firja Judge of Valor
@@crovax1375 - I do see your point. But look at it this way: you can play Killian early, set up your reward cards, then take advantage of the cost reduction. When Killian dies, it doesn't affect your win cons, and you already have enough resources to dominate.
The commanders you mentioned have a much heavier CMC, and have to be protected and/or brought back, which means dedicating more card slots to protection, and paying mana or life to replay them, since they are vital to your wincon. And this means they carry a target on their head for removal. Between needing to survive to late game, and having fewer interactive pieces due to the need to add protection, I don't see the advantage those commanders bring at the Helm.
I feel like you are advocating a specific build style, one where the key deck strategy revolves around keeping the commander in play. I have many decks like this. But I also build decks where I can win without ever playing my commander. Many efficient and competitive decks can just as easily win without their Generals sticking around. Killian allows for just such a build.
@@waynefeller8824 I could see that speed being great in a 1v1 match, but not in a 4 player. I just see the Killian player racing to second place, even if the synergy engine is assembled
Sigarda voltron says hello
A 5/5 with Flying and Hexproof (and can't be forced to sacrifice it) certainly has some great survivability. Personally, I would probably use the big "Swords Of..." instead of Auras, but I could see her eliminating some opponents with Commander damage. Good suggestion.
People talk Uril, and Immah let you finish but, Eight and a Half Tails is the greatest voltron commander of all time.
A mono white Commander is certainly going to have a tough go of it. But by all means feel free to share your deck list.
I honestly like Sigard, host of herons as an amazing voltron commander, not only does it have hexproof and flying but protection from sac effects as well.
I'ma*
@@Aristocards tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-05-21-GwO-eight-and-a-half-swords/ Here is what I'm currently running! check it out! its nickname is eight-and-a-half swords! sorry for the late reply lol I just saw you commented! Oh and you bet your bottom I'm adding the newest sword to the deck haha!
I like your style! Nice video :)
Cheers! 🍺
Voltron may not be powerful, but it is so much fun #GrevenForever
That being said, I would also build Kilian as a spellslinger
Pretty interesting idea. I just saw Killian yesterday and I've been thoroughly enjoying scryfall searches. He's cheap to replay, has amazing access to removal and protection, and beyond that he's super open ended
The win con part is what I'm still exploring. I think voltron, non-voltron combat, or combo could be viable depending on the power level / meta / context
My play group is interactive, I know I'd get blown out if I tried Killian voltron xD
A few suggestions:
Black Market
Revel in Riches
Grave Betrayal
Elenda, The Dusk Rose
Athreos, Shroud Veiled
Blood Artist
Blade of the Bloodchief
Deathgreeter
Demon of Dark Schemes
Well, Killian/Lurrus (as companion) is becoming a thing now!
I'm kinda digging Killian Zombie Spellslinger.
bit late to the party, and still at the 2 minute mark. I have a 15 euro deck (excl. commander) with Uril at the helm....so far the only thing that stopped it was Meren when it had it's annoyin plaguecrafter-ish loops going. ( i really dislike the whole sacrifice thingy). I think Killian might be on par with Feather, but feather might be more durable since you usually have a bigger hand at your disposal.
I'm building a life gain matters black white deck with vampires. Got any card suggestions? My collection is very small.
Elenda, the Dusk Rose is an excellent option.
Yessssss welcome back Baron!
I'm still running as a voltron build. But I have plenty of removal in there as well
Tuvasa Voltron is a good time. Not CEDH, but crazy fun.
I will build thtat deck to have removal for all the creatures in my playgroup =D
Did a mix between Voltron and target removal.
To my shame I have included a little bit of voltron in my killian list (archidekt.com/decks/1306941#[Killian_EDH]_It's_Time_to_Ink_D-D-D-Duel). I do have thoughts:
-I don't think anyone wears a Hatred quite like Killian. Three mana, instant speed, and lifelink is just straight player removal. Just be mindful of your playgroup and if this is a card that'd be okay to run. Most people aren't cool with "oops i killed you" cards. Means you gotta sit there and wait for the other three people to finish up. That being said, the game's gotta end eventually, and it'd sure be nice if we won.
-Fell the Mighty is Killian's go-to boardwipe. How often do you get to pay 3 mana for a (good) boardwipe?
-If you're really committed to the voltron strategy, I highly recommend Myth Realized. Even without the auras and looking at the heavy removal package Killian likes, Myth can get huge and it'll stick around for quite a while.
-On that note, if you care about cast triggers, Grind // Dust is two casts, and is essentially "1{W}{B}: exile two target creatures." Depending how the game is going, you may even be able to hold off on casting the other side later. Just throw out the counters and let the other half be a rattlesnake, or see how your opponents act when their creatures have a timebomb strapped to them.
-One of the ways Black can get access to artifact removal is through turning artifacts into creatures. It has a handful of ways to do this but for my money, my favorite is Karn, the Great Creator. The Null Rod effect stapled to him is just gravy. You could probably get the same level of efficiency with Xenic Poltergeist.
-There's a couple spells that Killian just straight-up makes free. Phyrexian mana is one avenue you can take, Dismember and Apostle's Blessing will always make it out of your hand. I was also looking at Liturgy of Blood, which can refund itself. Couldn't quiiiiite bring myself to run that one, personally, but I'm sure that someone out there will appreciate my throwing it out into the aether.
-I think you should always run Null Profusion when you can but this removal-heavy mana-light strategy is gonna throw a lot of cards around and run out of gas quickly without something keeping it going. White/Black isn't a huge fan of instant/sorcery recursion, and the only ones I found that I liked were Shrouded Lore and Deliver Unto Evil. With the latter, you'll almost usually get back two removal spells (cuz guess what your GY's full of XD). With Shrouded Lore though, you better be a quick talker or have a decent pile of swamps untapped. I've yet to be worried about that one.
-Sometimes you don't wanna kill something!! Enslave is a control magic in black with an upside, and you can really make someone go "wait what" with Debt of Loyalty coming out of left field!! The Vow and Impetus cycles are lovely cards to drop on someone else's stuff, and Minion's Return can snipe someone's dying creature. Finally, Dark Dabbling is a bad card at 3 mana, but a potentially playable one at 1 mana. Note that 1: it doesn't need to target your thing, and 2: if you target someone else's thing, you still get your board regenerated. Keep your eyes posted for moments where you can cut a deal and get some politic points. Now all we need is for less people to want to run cards that say "can't be regenerated" (sigh).
agree voltron strategies tho i have won some with my Killian is hard to put out. But only removal spells? mmmm i dont know if thats worth it, only the benefit of 2 less mana doesnt seem like much. Probably better to take advantage of the voltron aspect but i dont know. IS a good commander and cheap to build.
Would a Voltron strategy work if you where using Equipment Artifacts? I assume it doesn't work as paying for an equip cost means the card is already on the field and therefore isn't being cast. But when I looked for a definitive answer for this question I couldn't find anything. If this does work (which would surprise me), it would be more effective as the artifacts would stay on the field ready to be re-equipped when you replay your commander.
Killian knights, killian monarch, killian counters, killian mutate etc… many options
Thoughts on Hatred?
Don’t creatures that target cost 2 less as well?
If you're referring to ETB (enter the battlefield) effects, the answer is "no". Creature spells don't target anything - even the Bestow mechanic will change a creature into an Aura enchantment spell. A creature spell is cast, then resolves (is now a permanent, not a spell) and then an ETB causes the "triggered effect".
@@Aristocards word, thank you
You'll never be able to cast hacks for two mana with Killian alone though. It doesn't reduce for each creature it targets it reduced if it targets a creature.
He will never be able to reduce the cost by more than two with killian alone
I have an Elsa the infinite Voltron deck that works with artifacts and I think it's pretty good and Voltron should be artifacts not enchantments that way it's not a two-for-one also like zurgo the helmsmasher.
Sure, equipment like the big Swords can absolutely be devastating, and stay on the board if the equipped creature leaves the battlefield.
EXACTLY what I've been saying.
2:15 Zur? Though I dislike the voltron mechanic and prefers stax/control. Zur is free tutor for cheap enchantments/auras
I suppose you could use him in that way although most people use him to search for enchantments like necropotence. I don't really see him knocking anyone out with Commander damage though.
@@Aristocards phyresis. that is all lol
@@elscourou6654 you still have to get him to 10 power to be a significant threat though
I read that you can't target a creature from a graveyard because it's not a creature in the graveyard.
Cards like Animate Dead specifically say "creature card" not just "creature," so it does work here.
I’d go the combo route. One of my favorite combos is the Heliod/Ballista combo and black and white give you access to every tutor you need to find and protect the combo. I like this idea with Killian. Thanks for this.
I still want to see a truly successful killian mutate list
I'd just put Urza, Snapcaster, or some eldrazi titans as the win con and call it a day
jk
So I know people always say that uril is the best aura voltron commander, but Bruna, light of the alabaster is hands down THE best, and I'll gladly fight anyone on that.
Bruna is very good for voltron, no argument there, especially with her access to blue for control. But Uril's hexproof makes him more consistent and access to green means you can ramp into him faster.
Does Killian work with effects like Zombify? Just curious
Unfortunately not, there's a difference between "creature" and "creature card."
fuck thatttttt you cant stop the VOLTRONNNNNNNNNNN
Great video!
Brilliant good sir
Running grave yard cycle lets you avoid taking action especially if you can get sun Titian and atheors god of passage .
I’m still working on dialogue my in some cards , some are convenient place holders . But I run a aristocratic/ graveyard cycle heavy in target insttances and enchantments with several negate and indestructible cards people don’t like killian and he got killed a lot this way I can keep him in play with out taking action and keep cost down so atheors and hopefully two other mana limit cards don’t go off . I got 6 artifacts that don’t count as color identity and trigger land falls so one I don’t run into mana problem and two if it gose south or can’t get em out I trigger a bunch of land and switch strats or out spend the spell limits . I do need more draw cards if you have any recommendations
I would like to challenge your claim that Voltron is terrible besides Uril, because Auras are only half the strategy. Just look at Syr Gwyn’s synergy with Equipment. To blatantly claim a whole strategy is invalid, while not mentioning a huge factor in it, is ill advised and quite frankly shows a bias because you clearly did not look enough into the subject to have a fully fleshed out and reliable opinion.
Aristocrats! That’s probably how I gotta win with killian. Just keep sacrificing things and then it’ll pan out
While aristocrats could certainly be viable, I likely wouldn't hinge an entire strategy on "it'll pan out".
I know this is old but as a voltron player mist stalker is too slow, I wouldn't touch it. My favorite voltron commanders is eisor, and ardenn partners, eisor has built in evasion and difficult to target, and ardenn can freely equip some of the most busted equipment in the game to a two drop bird by turn three.
This was my first deck I really got into. Lots of cards here I agree with. Definitely found the use of targeted removal and auras combined to keep things covered. A little revival and some exile creatures make it fun.
Adding reflective golem and zombies as mentioned might be interesting.
I think Sigarda voltron is extremely good, even better than Uril
Always appreciative when you post a new video. Thanks.
Always appreciate when you watch them. Cheers!
Where is Hatred ?
For what? There's no infect here.
@@Aristocards turn 3 kill ? It is currently the easiest kill turn 3 😅
@@WilliamGap that's a highly risky maneuver. If it doesn't work out you just lost half of your life and the game barely started.
@@Aristocards it’s really the easiest combo. Opponent tap out on turn 3 ? No block ? You win
@@WilliamGap okay, you've defeated one out of three opponents. How do you think the other two are going to respond when they see this? You're now going to be fighting a two-front war.
Bestow/mutate route i dont think its good but i like to think he making ink monsters
Haha. A bargain. I get it.
Why not both? Targeted removal isn't a strategy to win just to annoy your opponents.
True, but for some players they consider that a personal win. But you are right, you still need to come up with your own win conditions.
Killian zombie tribal? Very unexpected but not very reliable or synergistic IMO
How is it not reliable? Zombies are relentless and can rebuild from a boardwipe.
Removal thy name is Killian.
What's tripping up "Many Magic: The Gathering players..."
Zur The Enchanter is the best VOLTRON commander
If you can get Vanishing to stick on him, I could see putting a few auras on him.
HATRED ;] i love this card ;p
While I agree with your position re Killian not being a good Voltron commander, I strongly disagree with Uril being the only candidate for a voltron General.
The reason is that while it has pseudo hexproof, it is still hugely vulnerable to Edict effects, which are the bane of Voltron decks.
Which is why I rejected Uril and went with Sigarda, Host of Herons for my Voltron deck.
She has built in hexproof, evasion, and stops my opposition from making me sac her.
Therefore, she is only vulnerable to sweepers (which is easily mitigateable with the correct auras) and nothing else.
There is LITERALLY no other Commander that gives you that.
Not even Uril.
And if you place her within an Enchantress shell (which I've done) then not only are the auras your damage multipliers/combos they also are you your card engine when they are cast/ETB.
It's not unusual for Sigarda to win by turn 6/7 (I've won turn 4 before) in a multi-player pod. In actual fact she won last Friday on turn 7 by being a 68/68 flying, unblockable, vigilant, lifegaining, counter doubling monster.
Which all leads back to; yes, I agree that Killian isn't a good voltron commander which is why I'm going to use him with Daxos as the secret Commander 😉
Which is why you play bestow cards lol
Bestow cards are woefully underpowered, especially for Commander.
I think you are undercutting voltron
I see a strategy of using enhancements that return themselves back to the hand either for a cost or for free
This takes away abit of the sting if your commander gets removed
What is this channel in my sub feed lol
A glove slap reality check. Then we drink!!
Don't play auras that can cause you a two for one if your opponent has removal. Instead play cards that are overcosted and inefficient when you commander isn't in play (because of removal)
You still get a chance to respond to an opponent using instant speed removal. Plus, it's unlikely that Killian it will be the biggest threat at the table. Instant speed removal should be reserved for a player's win condition and if they waste it on someone like Killian, their threat assessment is off.
Your perspective on voltrons is just incorrect. there are many better voltron commanders than uril.
How convenient of you to not actually back up your statement with any facts or commanders which you claim to be better.
Voltron is by far the worst archetype
Disliked for the ignorance about Voltron. Ok video otherwise
Ignorance? I must insist you backup this outrageous claim.