Excellent and informative video. I’m a homeowner with plenty of experience with nail down flooring but I’m about to do my first nail glue assist job. I researched different adhesives and concluded that the Bona system has many unique qualities that should benefit me-in fact it was an easy choice in the end. I have a new plywood subfloor and will be installing pre finished 7.5” engineered white oak. I considered sausages but I think it will be more economical in the end to do full trowel spread with the 1250g trowel. I’ll apply a coat of 540 as relatively cheap insurance to mitigate any moisture content variances between the subfloor and flooring. It seems like a solid plan so I’m hoping it works well. 1400sf to install. Cheers
Great video. I am putting 5/8" OSB over concrete and then 3/8" engineered hardwood on the OSB. I plan to put down one coat of R540 on the concrete before I use R851 to glue the OSB to the concrete. Should I also put one coat of R540 on the OSB before I do a glue assist install of the 3/8" engineered hardwood using R850T? Thought it might help with adhesion but the video mentions limiting coats of R540 to one when it comes to plywood/OSB so that moisture isn't trapped in the OSB. Would my above and below application of R540 in effect create the same problem of trapping moisture in the OSB?
Hi @peterhebert-v3u - Use the R540 as a vapor retarder over the OSB, applying at a maximum of 400sq/ft per container. That way it won't trap moisture in the OSB, but just slow the transmission. Hope that answers your question.
The R851 says Zero VOC but during installation, it releases high amounts of VOCs. I have measured it. Supposedly, it doesn't release VOCs after curing, but I don't know how long that takes. I have been waiting for a month.
Hi @MichaelPrentice - You must have some very expensive equipment at your job site to be measuring VOC and IAQ emissions? As the TDS and SDS for Bona Quantum R851 state, there are zero VOCs in the product and none are produced during the curing phase - which occurs via a net zero water exchange - with a full cure in 24 hours. Bona's silane adhesives are also GreenGuard Gold Certified for indoor air quality (IAQ), meaning they're approved for schools and healthcare facilities. Not sure what you installed with the R851, but if you're still experiencing odors and such after a month, it's most likely coming from the product installed or anything that was used on top to finish it. Hope that helps.
The manufacturer of the engineered hardwood i am installing recommends using staples with glue assist. Since i will be using the r850t, i won't be using any moisture barrier between the floor and subfloor. When is the r540 necessary?
Hi @user-kn2cu8xl6j - That's a perfect place to use a single coat of Bona R540 on the subfloor. This will provide the vapor barrier protection that you still need, without being able to put asphalt paper down. Thanks for the question!
@@MarcTison-r6t The adhesive, when used for a nail w/glue assist, would never cover enough to be considered a vapor barrier (need full coverage across the floor); so unless you're doing a full-trowel spread, the R540 should always be used to substitute for the asphalt vapor barrier that would typically be installed for a nail-only scenario. Hope that answers your question.
Still not clear how someone decides between the 850 sausages and the 851 trowel if doing glue and nail? And what would be the need for a faster cure time if you're glue and nailing planks? Do you have to wait for it to set up to nail?
Hi Cindi - Yep, it's easy for this to be a bit confusing as there are really no industry guidelines as to which method(s) to use when for nail w/glue assist. A couple other videos that may help you are: th-cam.com/video/GPPAGFpXq38/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/sPZTboqklw4/w-d-xo.html The sausages are going to cost more (per linear foot or oz. of adhesive) and have been a bit hard to come by due to supply chain issues, so dipping R851 out of the bucket may be a more reliable choice in the current business environment. Hope these help you decide what method might make the most sense in your particular situation but feel free to give our Bona Tech Services team a call at (800) 872-5515 if you have further questions. Thanks!
Hi @rcote1234 - No, R540 is not required prior to using R851 for the installation of hardwood flooring in all situations, but helps increase the moisture protection levels on a concrete substrate up to 18lbs or 95% RH (without needing to use the MBP trowel, which tends to place a lot of adhesive out onto the floor - can get messy); and is an excellent moisture retarder substitute on plywood substrates when installing flooring with a nail w/glue assist method when regular asphalt paper can't be utilized. If there's a particular scenario that you're dealing with, please contact your local Bona adhesive specialist (through your Bona distributor). Thanks!
Excellent and informative video. I’m a homeowner with plenty of experience with nail down flooring but I’m about to do my first nail glue assist job. I researched different adhesives and concluded that the Bona system has many unique qualities that should benefit me-in fact it was an easy choice in the end. I have a new plywood subfloor and will be installing pre finished 7.5” engineered white oak. I considered sausages but I think it will be more economical in the end to do full trowel spread with the 1250g trowel. I’ll apply a coat of 540 as relatively cheap insurance to mitigate any moisture content variances between the subfloor and flooring. It seems like a solid plan so I’m hoping it works well. 1400sf to install. Cheers
Best of luck with your project, Jeff! Happy to hear that these videos were useful for you too! Cheers!
Great video. I am putting 5/8" OSB over concrete and then 3/8" engineered hardwood on the OSB. I plan to put down one coat of R540 on the concrete before I use R851 to glue the OSB to the concrete. Should I also put one coat of R540 on the OSB before I do a glue assist install of the 3/8" engineered hardwood using R850T? Thought it might help with adhesion but the video mentions limiting coats of R540 to one when it comes to plywood/OSB so that moisture isn't trapped in the OSB. Would my above and below application of R540 in effect create the same problem of trapping moisture in the OSB?
Hi @peterhebert-v3u - Use the R540 as a vapor retarder over the OSB, applying at a maximum of 400sq/ft per container. That way it won't trap moisture in the OSB, but just slow the transmission. Hope that answers your question.
The R851 says Zero VOC but during installation, it releases high amounts of VOCs. I have measured it. Supposedly, it doesn't release VOCs after curing, but I don't know how long that takes. I have been waiting for a month.
Hi @MichaelPrentice - You must have some very expensive equipment at your job site to be measuring VOC and IAQ emissions? As the TDS and SDS for Bona Quantum R851 state, there are zero VOCs in the product and none are produced during the curing phase - which occurs via a net zero water exchange - with a full cure in 24 hours. Bona's silane adhesives are also GreenGuard Gold Certified for indoor air quality (IAQ), meaning they're approved for schools and healthcare facilities. Not sure what you installed with the R851, but if you're still experiencing odors and such after a month, it's most likely coming from the product installed or anything that was used on top to finish it. Hope that helps.
The manufacturer of the engineered hardwood i am installing recommends using staples with glue assist. Since i will be using the r850t, i won't be using any moisture barrier between the floor and subfloor. When is the r540 necessary?
Hi @user-kn2cu8xl6j - That's a perfect place to use a single coat of Bona R540 on the subfloor. This will provide the vapor barrier protection that you still need, without being able to put asphalt paper down. Thanks for the question!
@@BonaProfessional My question is when do I know it is mandatory to add R540? Is the glue in serpentine enough?
@@MarcTison-r6t The adhesive, when used for a nail w/glue assist, would never cover enough to be considered a vapor barrier (need full coverage across the floor); so unless you're doing a full-trowel spread, the R540 should always be used to substitute for the asphalt vapor barrier that would typically be installed for a nail-only scenario. Hope that answers your question.
Still not clear how someone decides between the 850 sausages and the 851 trowel if doing glue and nail? And what would be the need for a faster cure time if you're glue and nailing planks? Do you have to wait for it to set up to nail?
Hi Cindi - Yep, it's easy for this to be a bit confusing as there are really no industry guidelines as to which method(s) to use when for nail w/glue assist. A couple other videos that may help you are:
th-cam.com/video/GPPAGFpXq38/w-d-xo.html
and
th-cam.com/video/sPZTboqklw4/w-d-xo.html
The sausages are going to cost more (per linear foot or oz. of adhesive) and have been a bit hard to come by due to supply chain issues, so dipping R851 out of the bucket may be a more reliable choice in the current business environment. Hope these help you decide what method might make the most sense in your particular situation but feel free to give our Bona Tech Services team a call at (800) 872-5515 if you have further questions. Thanks!
Does r851 require r540 coat first?
Hi @rcote1234 - No, R540 is not required prior to using R851 for the installation of hardwood flooring in all situations, but helps increase the moisture protection levels on a concrete substrate up to 18lbs or 95% RH (without needing to use the MBP trowel, which tends to place a lot of adhesive out onto the floor - can get messy); and is an excellent moisture retarder substitute on plywood substrates when installing flooring with a nail w/glue assist method when regular asphalt paper can't be utilized. If there's a particular scenario that you're dealing with, please contact your local Bona adhesive specialist (through your Bona distributor). Thanks!
@@BonaProfessional thank you. I'm doing nail and glue on plywood. I'll prep it with the r540.