Lapis Lazuli Genuine - Daniel Smith Primatek Watercolor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode, we take a close look at Daniel Smith Lapis Lazuli Genuine from their Primatek range. We test the color on my usual test sheet, and also see how it compares with other similar colors.
All of the Daniel Smith Primatek videos: bit.ly/2TuLy6L
See how top quality lapis lazuli is made: • Fra Angelico blue pigm...
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+ Lapis Lazuli (Daniel Smith) www.jacksonsar...
+ Cadmium Yellow Light (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
+ Cadmium Yellow Orange (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
+ Vermilion (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
+ Permanent Red (Daniel Smith) www.jacksonsar...
+ Quinacridone Rose (Daniel Smith) www.jacksonsar...
+ Quinacridone Violet (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
+ Ultramarine Violet (Schmincke) www.jacksonsar...
+ Ultramarine Blue (handmade by me)
+ Phthalo Blue Yellow Shade (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
+ Phthalo Turquoise (Daniel Smith) www.jacksonsar...
+ Viridian Hue (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
+ Permanent Green No. 1 (Holbein) www.jacksonsar...
Papers
+ Bockingford 140lb CP watercolor paper www.jacksonsar...
+ Bockingford 140lb HP watercolor paper www.jacksonsar...
+ Bockingford 140lb Rough watercolor paper www.jacksonsar...
+ Arches 140lb CP watercolor paper pad www.jacksonsar...
Other Tools
+ Gauze www.otokano.co...
+ Pro Arte Prolene Plus size 12 round brush www.jacksonsar...
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Well, at least you can say that it gauzes nicely... So in case anyone wonders about US prices, Jerry's Artarama (US discount art supply store) sells DS lapis lazuli 15 ml for $19.52. The list price is $32.54! Yeah, insanely expensive over here too.
oh that's great info Melissa, thank you. Do you mind if I pin your comment to the top so others can see it?
Sure, go for it! 😁
Thank you Melissa :)
I get my D. Smith watercolors, in fact all my art supplies, from Amazon. The prices are always much less than Jerry's, even with Jerry's sales at their brick and mortar store. Jerry's will sell items on Amazon at cheaper prices than in their store. Also on Amazon prices fluctuate dramatically so when I want an art product that is expensive I put it into my wish list and then buy it when the price drops. For example I was able to buy a series 35 size 6 da Vinci Maestro sable brush for $20 with $5.99 shipping on Amazon and coming from Jerry's. On Jerry's store site the same brush is $39.99 with free shipping. The same goes for my paints, both singles and sets.
Melissa Bailey I bought this one a long time ago and was disappointed immensely. I thought it was because I’m a beginner that I couldn’t get it to work..but nope, there just isn’t a lot of pigment.
I get that some people like to have expensive things, but why mine a precious gem from the fragile earth for such a terrible pay off? We have alternatives... No need for this one. Thanks for sharing this with everyone Oto. I've seen other versions of this color with better payoff which I can understand, but is one I really wish DS would drop from their line.
Totally understand what you are saying Denise. Like, why bother with such a faint sad color in the first place? All the other primatek colors are lovely, but this one just feels like they made this color for the sake of making something out of lapis lazuli. So sad.
So true!
@@OtoKano exactly! I feel bad for the gemstones too... We're destroying them for a paint that's not even worth! That was the first thought I had when I saw the tigers eye paints too years ago. I loved those stones as a kid and the paint looks like... Well, poop. Lol. Just because we can doesn't mean we should.
I agree with you. It is such a waist of resources from the brand point og view, but it is also extremely wasteful use of a gemstone. It would be better to leave it alone in the earth.
John Cogley from Daniel Smith answered some of those concerns raised by artists last week at the DS factory tour. He said that most of what they purchase for Primateks is what's left over from other mining processes, i.e. they take the small pieces left over from jewelry making that the jewelry industry doesn't want, or in the case of turquoise for example, it's left over from copper mining. If I recall correctly he said that they have to negotiate to get the leftovers sometimes before they're disposed of and all of their pigments and minerals are byproducts of other industries, i.e. when the car industry discontinued PO49, they were out of luck, and that all the paint companies in the world together probably don't use enough pigment to mine minerals just for paint. (However, some handmade paint companies like Wallace Seymour do forage or dig for natural pigments, and probably larger pigment companies do so, too.)
If you look around you, everything made of metal or stone is mined. Plastics are made with oil from deep inside the earth, clay is dug up to make ceramics, silica to make glass, electronics require heavy metals--so we're all culpable for what we consume from the earth that takes millennia to replace. I'm not saying that we shouldn't care about what we use!! It's fantastic when people do, I'm just saying that there is a difference in scale--but it all matters :)
I'd definitely choose a cerulean blue or try to water down my ultramarine blue instead if I wanted to replicate this color, or the soft mixes. I'm just not romantic enough to spend that much for the idea of using lapis lazuli, knowing that it would be this faint. However, without having seen this video, I probably would've splurged on it someday because the color on the label is so deceptively intense and beautiful. So, thank you again for the video! It likely saved me $20 and a lot of disappointment :)
Sooooo happy to hear that this video has saved you an expensive disappointment! Thank you for watching :)
Yep bought it before I saw this, happy to see my opinion endorsed.
First, Love your Primatek video series, I've wanted to buy all of Daniel Smiths Primatek colours when I first found them because I love these crystals/stones but was always hesitating on buying one because of the price and not sure how they would rewet etc. Your videos have been so helpful. Second, so glad you did the Lapis Lazuli cause this one has been on my list to buy but now I think I'll go with a different colour.
Hi Dime Culture! So glad you are enjoying this series and that this video is going to save you an expensive disappointment. Thank you for watching :)
Yes, this one was such a disappointment! I also think that the Schmincke lapis lazuli is much better, but my tiny tube requires some patience (separates in the tube, and it takes a while to rewet in the pan). BUT: I made my own lapis lazuli watercolour and am proud to say it‘s a rich, deep, ultramarine with depth and slight sparkle. It took several rounds of fussing to get the pigment cleaned (no grey) and concentrated enough to yield about a quarter of a pan, so it’s not time and cost effective, but it’s something I’d make again for a special project.
oh wow! That sounds amazing. Do you have swatches we could see please?
Dr. Oto Kano I do :) Here’s a swatch of Ultramarine on the left, two swatches of Lapis Lazuli on the right:
spqrblues.com/gallery/lapislazuli-1.jpg
In this one, Lapis Lazuli is the blue swatches except the two swatches labelled Faience (MaimeriBlu). The darkest one is the final outcome. In the bottom picture, the LL is glazed over Ultramarine:
spqrblues.com/gallery/lapislazuli_sampler.png
And a post I wrote about it: spqrblues.com/V/2017/03/do-art-wrong-spqr-blue/
@@SPQRKlio That looks like really good paper. What kind of paper is that?
Thanks for your honesty! That is exactly what we expect and want! I do agree with you in every way here!
Thank you Jana, so glad you don't mind my honesty!
Thank you for warning me!
these videos are so great. i get excited everytime i get an alert.
So glad you like these videos Leeanne, thank you for watching them :D
So glad for your reviews and information on all of the colors in the series. You are Awesome! Thank you.
So happy to hear that you are enjoying this series dedesu3, thank you for watching!
Honstly I will rather go appreciate the chemical masterpiece that is Ultramarine, and you can get a very very close color with, in essence, mixing Ultramarine pigment with binder without mulling, which makes for a super similar granulation! I have the Schmincke anniversary version, and not only does it come in a 5m, tube, which makes it more affordable, but also do I feel like that it has a biiit more pigment in it!
But again, ULTRAMARINE we are not in the medieval world anymore!
Ultramarine all the way!
Thank you so much, Dr. Oto!
I agree. Didn’t do my research. This video reflects my experience too
Putting this paint next to the Lapis from Nila Colori is eye opening, and that one doesn't break the bank either.
So sad that I bought and squeezed out a pan of this extremely expensive paint before I could return it (bought on a whim at my local Jerry's Artarama - figured it was so expensive that it must be amazing) before I saw this review! But, needing my glass to be half full, the Polyanna in me found that it did indeed granulate beautifully and was a delightful, however pale denim shade. I found that it also layers beautifully and is outstanding (for my novice ability) to lift and move dried color around when it goes where I don't want it to. I absolutely love it for monotone Christmas card snowy scenes. I'm sure there is another color that is less expensive to meet those needs (what would you recommend?) that would be far less expensive.
Paula in Florida
That's great that you figured out how to love this color :D I would personally always recommend ultramarine blue, since it is suppose to be the synthetic replacement to the really high quality lapis lazuli.
Thanks!
I think the gauze is ultimately the best way to use this color. It's sooooo faint :|
it is sooooooo faint indeed. So sad.
Eve Bolt - Bolt's Vault how would I use the gauze in a painting?
3eyed ROBIN You can check more of Oto's videos to see the gauze at work, but it's a really nice way to add a layer of texture on top of a color. Perhaps less for realistic work, it really shines in abstract or semi-abstract paintings :)
Wow, thank you so much for this look at this paint! I would’ve been so disappointed.
So glad to save you on an expensive disappointment!
Thank you Oto, it's good to know.
You're welcome Sherri, thank you for watching :)
I find it intriguing that this historical pigment that was grounded from a semi-precious stone which was mined from "The Graveyard of Empires" and sought after by the old masters, now looks like a pale (no pun intended) imitation of the more intense synthetic version.
The resulting mixes look perfect for Easter themes and a baby shower ... but you want water paints down enough on their own for less momey.
I recently bought the Roman Somali version and it’s the same. Scrub scrub scrub for not much. It does look pretty touched in my skies though. 😀
I think I've decided to add a shimmer tone to similar watercolors when I want shimmer. I collect crystals, and I too am concerned with earth issues.
Thank you so much for this review. I would feel totally disappointed myself if I purchase at that high price. I wanted to purchase for a particular client but when I saw the sample on the chart I felt I need to research and find out the reviews.
Pro sad is how I feel with this color and Daniel Smith. Why even make if you’re going to make such an inferior product? Thanks for your honesty.
Wow, that's definitely disappointing, thank you for letting us know. I can imagine what the first buyer of this tube must have felt seeing the payoff of this paint. Eternal sorrow possibly. The Lapislazuli I have (from NilaColori) pleasantly surprised me, as did their Ultramarine Blue. Both colors are very pigmented (compared to my otherwise branded Ultramarine Blues), the main difference is that the Ultramarine has a 'colder' tone to it and in its pure form is a lot more intense than Lapislazuli. But once you start doing a wash, they look basically the same.
You are so welcom Karijn. I know what you mean, how sad would've been if you were one of the first people to get hold of this? The price just doesn't make sense of the color pay off you don't get.
I am so very thankful for this video, this was on my next shopping list of pigments to try. I was not expecting this result at all for this video. I originally wanted this color because so far the primatek range is so beautiful and with such a high intensity to their range and given the price I figured it would be one of their top paints. Also because of this pigments history I wanted to try it. Now that being said as a mixture to create a soft pastel pallet with beautiful sheen it's very nice BUT...as an artist when I buy I am making an investment into my career and choices I make about which paint I buy I really research to make sure my money works for me and I'm getting something top quality. Or perhaps this is top quality but not what I would want to spend 20$-30$ on.. so thank you so much for doing this video and helping me make a wiser purchase . And you're awesome, I love the detail and work you put into your professionalism. It's a joy hearing your thoughts on paint :) xo
You are so welcome Angie, so glad this video could save you the money and the disappointment!
I have seen people seperating the binder from the pigment to get more color out of it. aparently, this color has a lot of binder added to it since the pigment is so heavy. Have you heard of that technique? They put the paint in a dish and cover it with water, wait a bit and pour out the binder that had diluted in the water.
I'm not sure if that's a good idea, as the binder helps the pigment stay on the paint. When we make paint, we usually put just enough binder to ensure that all the pigment stays on the paint. When you remove the binder, you are running the risk of your painting losing the pigment from the paper.
When I tried this (with handmade paint, though), it separated out different types of particles, some greyer some bluer. Basically washing the pigment to end up with a greater concentration of darker particles. But the right amount of binder did have to be restored-it was just blue silt. It doesn’t look like the DS has a lot of grey particles, though, the way the Schmincke turns out to have.
@Tatiana Bonin-Giust I'm going to try that too! From what I learned at Daniel Smith last week, pouring off the excess gum arabic is okay, it's rarely needed. I've always tried to stir it up with a toothpick, but John Cogley said that the gum arabic is needed to coat all the particles and keep the paint moving during processing, with heavier pigments settling it will move to the surface and the rest of the tube is fine to use as is. I'm going to pour off the excess gum arabic from my Potter's Pink and see if it rewets more easily. I've always used glycerine when my Winsor & Newton paints released the gum arabic and hardened a bit and it worked great. @Dr Oto Kano, I'm also concerned about it sticking to the paper, sounds like an excuse to experiment!!!
Ohhh! Good idea with the Potters pink! Ill give it a go
Very good point. Ill have to try it out!
Been waiting for this! Thank you for the review, would have been so disappointed with the payoff
You are so welcome Av, glad to have saved you a sad disappointment :)
Is it just me being blind, or is the link to how the paint is made not in the description? I can't seem to find it >.<
Edit: I'm not sure why DS would continue selling this paint in it's current state, honestly. It's giving Primatek a bad name. I hope they try improving on it to at least get to the level of Schminke's Lapis Lazuli.
dunno if this is the video she meant to link, but her's one that I had in my bookmarks on the subject: th-cam.com/video/JBzEAt_ynvc/w-d-xo.html
Gosh I'm terribly sorry! Yes that is the right link and I will put it up in the description now.
Thank you both 😊
Edit: Oh my! In this video th-cam.com/video/cahwbEHrZ3c/w-d-xo.html by the same guy, he shows how he makes a watercolour with the lapis lazuli pigment at the end. The colour payoff is WAY better than the DS version. I recomend everyone watch at least the last minutes of the video. It really is possible to make something like our modern ultramarine with this pigment.
How would this compare with Potter's Pink?
The Schminke version is nice, though I would love to get the Zecchi or nila colori version. It certainly helped seeing other previews of the DS, so I didn't bother. Thanks for the confirmation.
Woooo Zecchi would be amazing, I saw one of the guys from Zecchi hand extract lapis lazuli in a documentary once. They know what they're doing!
Dr. Oto Kano, Zecchi do a pan for around £15, ordered from their website, I would love to try it but there is a minimum order requirement of + £30, so out of reach right now. Alternatively a trip to Florence? (If only......) I think the video you mention is from a different person who does supply them with the pure pigment in different grades.
How about building colors on your own of Lapis Lazuli. Have you been testing this?
Sad to say this is the only DS watercolor that I dislike because it is difficult to manipulate. It almost takes an entire tube for a strong tint and even then it's very weak. I prefer Blue Apatite or Sleeping Beauty Turquoise over it.
What a disappointment! Thank you for the education. It makes it very easy forget about ever buying this. The sugilite is at the top of my Primatek wish list!
Yes! Sugilite is soooooo much better. Hope you have fun with Sugilite when you get it!
try the schmincke one
Have you thought of setting up an account on Amazon in the USA. I'd like to support you without the shipping costs.
You should do a comparison with schmincke’s lapis lazuli limited edition paint
Hunter Marlette I did. It’s in the video...
Dr. Oto Kano my apologies, I commented before I got to the end of the video
Hunter Marlette no problem, glad you got to see it as the schmincke’s one is much better. 😊
Absolutely right ! Do agree ! Just purchased the lapis lazuli of Daniel Smith ! And sooooo disappointed !!!! Lost Money...!
Thanks for reviewing this one. It's actually (still - even after watching the video) on my to buy list. It's a gorgeous blue color and I have the lapis lazuli by Dan, which I love. But I still have some questions, is the color less faint when used directly from the tube? The Schmincke one looks nicer though. Thanks for the comparison in the end. (The ultramarine blue I don't like by the way, but it's great for mixes.) Thank you again for all the work you have with the colors. Hope you feel better soon!
By the way: I remember Sadie saying almost the same about the Schmincke lapis lazuli, that it's too faint to be worked with properly. Bu I actually couldn't find a video about the DS one, when I looked for reviews. :)
Not really. There's not much difference between painting straight from tube and from dry. Hope you enjoy this color if you do get it :)
@@OtoKano I had a slightly different, more tinting experience (although still underwhelming) with the tube that I bought (before watching this video).
Is it possible that your pigment was settled in the tube that you had?
Have you contacted Daniel Smith?
@@OtoKano I love your Daniel Smith TH-cam videos, by the way.
I love the palette it creates. I love the colour a lot. But it's way too expensive especially since it can't create strong washes. Maybe one day if I have money to throw out the window😅
OH MY!!! THANK YOU!! I only wish this had existed about 6 years ago when I purchased this color. It was SO DISAPPOINTING. Just hate it. Infuriating to me that Daniel Smith is STILL selling this. It's near criminal that they're selling something so expensive that they KNOW is weak.
Aw I am so sorry that you had to experience the sheer disappointment of this color :(
I was hugely dissatisfied when I bought this a few years ago, I genuinely thought they sent a faulty tube. I would definitely NOT recommend anyone to buy it, I'm surprised that a reputable firm like DS sell such a bad quality product!
It does look like it would make an awesome snow scene. Everything about snow is overpriced.
Debs in Everett, WA
Hey I'm super early again. Nice video keep working on.
That's crazy! I would never purchase this paint now. Personally not interested in something this faint and non pigmented. Very helpful! Thanks!
You are so welcome Daniel, so glad you found this video helpful :)
Dr. Oto Kano Absolutely! :)
Schmincke lapis lazuli
Wow, that gauze would be my ONLY reason to use it. It is breathtaking there. But I will pass otherwise. Thank you for the caution!
Thank you for the heads up! This video just save me money! It was on my wish list... Now it's not! 🤑
So glad the video could save you money!
Have you tried the garnet genuine yet? That one doesn’t rewet at all. It’s terrible.
Only on the dot card, but you're right, that was pale too.
This was on my someday list, but not anymore. I watched a video before on how it was made, and the paint seemed far more intense and saturated than this. I'm sad now, as it was a color I was really looking forward to having someday. The color payoff just isn't worth it though. Sad, sad, sad. :(
How about giving the Schmincke lapis a go?
I might, but I didn't care for that oddly colored residue left behind as it dries. I think I'll look for it elsewhere. There are many small handcrafted paint companies. Maybe I might find something suitable (and worth the expense) in one of them. I know there will be vendors at the USk Symposium, so I can hope for luck there.
lucky I have not bought it. not worth it.
The most disappointing pigment i've ever tried in my watercolor experience.
I've found real Lapislazzuli watercolor in the online shop of Zecchi, italian shop of bellearti in Florence. I've tried it. That Lapislazzuli is real intense and vivid pigment near ultramarine blue. It's great!
idk why i am wathing this
Oh my gosh that is extremely sad.
I feel offended this paint exists 🤦🏽♀️
Rip off