Good morning, Joe. I enjoyed your review of these speakers. The coaxial setup works well as I have used 6 x 9 auto speakers in wedge boxes as rear channel units because they are more efficient and that application surprises the heck out of visitors. This also makes it easier for the AVR to drive them in a 5.0 setup.
Very nice video. I hope you can tell us more about mounting locations and get more speakers to compare them to. These look nice. I wish it had more bass too. 👍
Coincidental coaxial will always be my preferred speaker configuration for the tweeter and midwoofer. I also didn't know that a company had made my dream come true by integrating a ring radiator silk ribbon tweeter into a coincidental coaxial speaker. It should go a long way to improving the off-axis performance since that tweeter design has amazing listening angles.
MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 8 - should make for an excellent Atmos (on-wall or on-ceiling) speaker..., as well as an excellent Side & Rear surround..., then a pair of 888 for the mains and either another 888 or a Source Point 8 for the center 🤯
Great video Joe. I'd love to see your comparison with the Cambridge Audio Minx Min 12 or 22 speakers for height channel duty. They incorporate Balance Mode Radiator drivers which is supposed to offer excellent off axis performance. Their own mounting hardware is pretty nifty too.
Nice review, I agree that too many speakers trade sensitivity for bass output. I wonder how you'd like either the KEF Q8 Meta or R8 Meta compared to these. Both have concentric design but the kef looks to have slightly lower sensitivity but at least with the r series I'd expect can handle more power with less distortion than the Aperion. I just bought 4 in-ceiling Atmos speakers, went with Elac Debut ones since they have a 30 degree baffle angle which is better than most in-ceiling that only offer a 15 degrees or kef that doesn't have any angle at all. That's the main reason I went with Elac over getting something that matches the R series that I'm slowly upgrading to. Planning on cutting the holes in the ceiling over the holidays. Happy Holidays to you and the family Joe.
Hi Joe… thank you for the upload. I’m looking at upgrading (from my 6x in-ceilings) to LARGEr on-ceiling speakers than the little pups you did in this review, namely the SVS Ultra Elevations or the Arendal 1723 Heights. I’ve never had any issues with mounting any types of speakers on ceilings as I’m handy with my milling machine and able to make custom brackets. Your mention of 2-way (SVS/Arendal) speakers being problematic as ceiling atmos scared me a little! Am I going to have issues even though there are just two seats in the MLP? I’m very keen on the two options I mentioned above… feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks :) Nickolas
What do you think about Frankenstein home theater systems? I have main LR Q Acoustics Concept 300, Heco Celan Revolution 3 center and 4 atmos and surrounds Klipsch RP400m 😅 I think the three fronts are a good match but i don't know about the other six with respect to the fronts. I also have a pair of RSL (12" and 10")
If the LCR are timbre matched, then that's the most important. You can use EQ from my Magic Beans app to make them sound more similar. It's best to have them all the same for timbre-matching .
Great timing. Been struggling with purchase decision around these very issues. Want to get Arendal 1723 S ear level setup however their height speakers are so massive and we’d be so severely off axis for the rear heights wall mounted with no practical way to use an articulating mount to aim it better (ceilings 18’ so that’s not possible to mount either). Do you find that it still sounds cohesive to mix brands for height speakers? Side note: been using SACT and just tried MB for the 1st time yesterday and found it very helpful so thank you!
Glad you're liking the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit and Magic Beans. I use the Arendal 1723's for my ear level and I think these match well with EQ. Timbre matching heights is less critical from my experience. There are natural tonal shifts as things go above you anyway, so a height speaker with a slight tonal difference isn't that noticeable if integrated and EQ'ed properly. I have the Arendal 1723 heights and they're big. I couldn't mount them. I tried.
@@joentell thanks for the reply. I really wish Arendal hadn’t discontinued the 1961s. Would have made this whole decision process so much easier. Looked at these aperions but thought they wouldn’t tonally match enough, guess I’ll need to reconsider. Happy holidays!
Cool, but can we not use some speaker mounts that can be turned in 3-axis ? Say, a simple kit from BestBuy? I agree that DI is important, but just turning the speaker will make all major seating positions on-axis ?
There are tons of nearby reflections for in-wall speakers, so I think directivity is very important. Having the speaker closer to the wall is better. Some mounts bring them out a bit too far. In-wall is the best for eliminating the SBIR effect
It can still be very useful for multi-channel systems. If you consider you will still have it when you decide to upgrade, I think it's worth every penny if you plan to tweak your system
I've actually tried that in my studio where I have 11 of the Monolith THX Compact Satellites. It definitely helps, but you can tell they don't like going louder than a certain level. I still think the Aperion A5's can just play louder with less distortion.
Nice Review & Information in the 1990s I selected 1/4 inch CCTV camera mounts with swivels & adjusted with a handheld spectrum analyzer. Aiming the speaker still feels optimal 2 MY EARs.... but I also up-fire for convenience.
I have a question? What is the best budget Bluetooth receiver thing I could get for the money to hook up to my stereo I think the junkie little one I got might blow up my old JVC stereo.. I have one on there now Rockville sound but it's mono it's pretty heavy but it's for running a string of speakers at a restaurant or Mall Series so you can run hundreds and hundreds.. the crappy little one I have ak-45 I'm afraid I'm going to blow my speakers or something.. and there's another one that's even crappier I should have spent more money the f*** is it k a i y didn't think I got it from Amazon because one time I use the VPN and they said I couldn't buy it but I got it and it looks like a piece of junk it's like what 2 inches long I think it will melt if I just set it on the surround.. are the speakers any good from Rockville sound do they have a lot of stereo and sound stuff
@ Thanks for the reply I’ve got the ELAC Debut 2.0 Dolby Atmos enabled speakers for my front height speakers and the Pioneer Satellites with the built in Atmos heights for the rear Atmos that Andrew Jones worked on but I was thinking of upgrading to on wall height channels later.
@@joentell I think so too recently just went from a 5.2.4 channel layout to a 7.2.4 channel layout with an Emotiva A7 Amp and I have the Denon X-4500H AVR. I drive the main front left and right channels, and the rear surrounds channels through the AVR and the rest of the channels are run through the A7. I used the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit disc with Magic Beans and it sounds great. But I’m still not sure about the crossovers it set with the fronts and center at 60Hz, Surrounds at 90Hz, Surround Backs at 80Hz, and both Dolbys at 150Hz.
Bookshelf speakers usually review much better, if you could swing the aesthetic, from a sound perspective seems like getting some base and better sounds out of the heights with a double the quality bookshelf would be better. Take a pair of $500 bookshelves in stereo, these little atmos speakers prob wouldn't come close in stereo. Another "expert" claims none of these low priced speakers have enough dynamic range and volume anyway, and the only thing to get is an expensive Perlisten.
Nice review Joe. One thing I would have liked to see is once you had the proper avr xover selected to keep distortion in check, what kind of output are they capable of?
For height speakers, that doesn't seem feasible. They are good for their horizontal off-axis response, but narrow vertically. They'll also be large and not point-source.
@joentell maybe not for athmos but for Auro it closes the dome above you. I got a perfect dome, like a VoG above my head. I want to have a diffuse and atmospheric surrounding sound around me, like I am standing on the street and I don't think that direct sounding speakers are the right way to get the natural sound. By the wide sound of d'appolitos you get this diffuse spherical sound. For me it's the best sound, sitting under the dome. Very important are the angles from the speaker to you and the speaker to the ceiling. I got a 7.2.4 Setup in Atmos/Auro compromise setup (Auro+Athmos changed the angle) and I only hear Auro Upmixer. It is in any way better than Athmos, even in athmos mixed sound, sounds better in Auro Upmixer in my opinion. Auro is for the natural sounding, more complicated to set up than athmos and more natural. You can even adjust the sound intensity of Auro that is not possible for athmos but you will know that. I think Auro is the better Athmos. Greetings from Germany.
@@LauPlum-sn6ts I might know a few things about Auro3D. th-cam.com/video/vKX13MRWIBI/w-d-xo.html I've interviewed Wilfred Van Baelen many times on our Daily HiFi podcast. I still don't think D'appolito is the correct type of speaker for heights. I think concentric is the best suited for that job.
I believe music Can Heal the World. I want a couple days without watching news the media the MTM Network I feel like a new person.... I just listen to music making music is better although I'm not really good at it
@@joentellatmos wants identical speakers all around for full intended immersion, No getting around it. We need to be looking more at pa speakers for best atmos as u can get smallish speakers with incredible dymamics using compression drivers.
@@bingdong8571 I have identical speakers in my 7.1.4 studio setup and it does help for timber matching but they still need EQ since the room affects the response of each differently. Most PA speakers I've seen are much too large for heights for a home theater setup. They also need power which means 2 long wires to run with one being signal. It's easier to run speaker cables.
Merry Christmas, Joe. I have really enjoyed your stuff this year. You, Erin, and Chana are really great content providers and have taught me so much.
Thanks for watching, I really appreciate it! Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Thx Joe, very succinct layout of benefits vs shortcommings with each unit. 😊😊😊🎉 Merry Christmas to all you and yours. ❤
Good morning, Joe. I enjoyed your review of these speakers. The coaxial setup works well as I have used 6 x 9 auto speakers in wedge boxes as rear channel units because they are more efficient and that application surprises the heck out of visitors. This also makes it easier for the AVR to drive them in a 5.0 setup.
Happy Holidays!
Happy Holidays to you too!
@@joentell review kali sm 5
Very nice video. I hope you can tell us more about mounting locations and get more speakers to compare them to. These look nice. I wish it had more bass too. 👍
Coincidental coaxial will always be my preferred speaker configuration for the tweeter and midwoofer.
I also didn't know that a company had made my dream come true by integrating a ring radiator silk ribbon tweeter into a coincidental coaxial speaker. It should go a long way to improving the off-axis performance since that tweeter design has amazing listening angles.
MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 8 - should make for an excellent Atmos (on-wall or on-ceiling) speaker..., as well as an excellent Side & Rear surround..., then a pair of 888 for the mains and either another 888 or a Source Point 8 for the center 🤯
Same with Kali IN-8 and IN-5... Or KEF models. Or Genelec.
Glad people are seeing the benefits of coaxial speakers.
Great video Joe. I'd love to see your comparison with the Cambridge Audio Minx Min 12 or 22 speakers for height channel duty. They incorporate Balance Mode Radiator drivers which is supposed to offer excellent off axis performance. Their own mounting hardware is pretty nifty too.
I've made 2 videos on BMR speakers. Those look interesting
Nice review, I agree that too many speakers trade sensitivity for bass output. I wonder how you'd like either the KEF Q8 Meta or R8 Meta compared to these. Both have concentric design but the kef looks to have slightly lower sensitivity but at least with the r series I'd expect can handle more power with less distortion than the Aperion. I just bought 4 in-ceiling Atmos speakers, went with Elac Debut ones since they have a 30 degree baffle angle which is better than most in-ceiling that only offer a 15 degrees or kef that doesn't have any angle at all. That's the main reason I went with Elac over getting something that matches the R series that I'm slowly upgrading to. Planning on cutting the holes in the ceiling over the holidays. Happy Holidays to you and the family Joe.
Have fun. Wear eye protection for that dust!
@@joentell Oh I will! I wear glasses but when I installed a bathroom fan recently I wore safety glasses overtop my regular glasses and wore a mask.
you should try out the Aperion Theatrus lineup.
Hi Joe… thank you for the upload. I’m looking at upgrading (from my 6x in-ceilings) to LARGEr on-ceiling speakers than the little pups you did in this review, namely the SVS Ultra Elevations or the Arendal 1723 Heights. I’ve never had any issues with mounting any types of speakers on ceilings as I’m handy with my milling machine and able to make custom brackets. Your mention of 2-way (SVS/Arendal) speakers being problematic as ceiling atmos scared me a little! Am I going to have issues even though there are just two seats in the MLP? I’m very keen on the two options I mentioned above… feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks :) Nickolas
Good shit joe. Been waiting on this review for a while. Thank you
🙏
What do you think about Frankenstein home theater systems? I have main LR Q Acoustics Concept 300, Heco Celan Revolution 3 center and 4 atmos and surrounds Klipsch RP400m 😅 I think the three fronts are a good match but i don't know about the other six with respect to the fronts. I also have a pair of RSL (12" and 10")
If the LCR are timbre matched, then that's the most important. You can use EQ from my Magic Beans app to make them sound more similar. It's best to have them all the same for timbre-matching .
Great timing. Been struggling with purchase decision around these very issues. Want to get Arendal 1723 S ear level setup however their height speakers are so massive and we’d be so severely off axis for the rear heights wall mounted with no practical way to use an articulating mount to aim it better (ceilings 18’ so that’s not possible to mount either). Do you find that it still sounds cohesive to mix brands for height speakers?
Side note: been using SACT and just tried MB for the 1st time yesterday and found it very helpful so thank you!
Glad you're liking the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit and Magic Beans.
I use the Arendal 1723's for my ear level and I think these match well with EQ. Timbre matching heights is less critical from my experience. There are natural tonal shifts as things go above you anyway, so a height speaker with a slight tonal difference isn't that noticeable if integrated and EQ'ed properly.
I have the Arendal 1723 heights and they're big. I couldn't mount them. I tried.
@@joentell thanks for the reply. I really wish Arendal hadn’t discontinued the 1961s. Would have made this whole decision process so much easier. Looked at these aperions but thought they wouldn’t tonally match enough, guess I’ll need to reconsider. Happy holidays!
better than svs prime?
Cool, but can we not use some speaker mounts that can be turned in 3-axis ? Say, a simple kit from BestBuy? I agree that DI is important, but just turning the speaker will make all major seating positions on-axis ?
There are tons of nearby reflections for in-wall speakers, so I think directivity is very important. Having the speaker closer to the wall is better. Some mounts bring them out a bit too far. In-wall is the best for eliminating the SBIR effect
Hi Joe. How useful is your calibration disc for an older AVR? I have a Onkyo TX RZ740.
It can still be very useful for multi-channel systems. If you consider you will still have it when you decide to upgrade, I think it's worth every penny if you plan to tweak your system
If you limited the bass on both to only 120hz high pass I wonder which could go louder.
I've actually tried that in my studio where I have 11 of the Monolith THX Compact Satellites. It definitely helps, but you can tell they don't like going louder than a certain level. I still think the Aperion A5's can just play louder with less distortion.
Hi Joe, was wondering if you have heard/reviewed any other Aperion speakers such as their Verus V6T's, V5B's or V6C?
Not that I can recall
Nice Review & Information in the 1990s I selected 1/4 inch CCTV camera mounts with swivels & adjusted with a handheld spectrum analyzer.
Aiming the speaker still feels optimal 2 MY EARs.... but I also up-fire for convenience.
I have a question? What is the best budget Bluetooth receiver thing I could get for the money to hook up to my stereo I think the junkie little one I got might blow up my old JVC stereo.. I have one on there now Rockville sound but it's mono it's pretty heavy but it's for running a string of speakers at a restaurant or Mall Series so you can run hundreds and hundreds.. the crappy little one I have ak-45 I'm afraid I'm going to blow my speakers or something.. and there's another one that's even crappier I should have spent more money the f*** is it k a i y didn't think I got it from Amazon because one time I use the VPN and they said I couldn't buy it but I got it and it looks like a piece of junk it's like what 2 inches long I think it will melt if I just set it on the surround.. are the speakers any good from Rockville sound do they have a lot of stereo and sound stuff
Hey Joe, have you got to try out the ELAC Debut 3.0 DA43-BK Dolby Atmos speakers yet?
I haven't. Just the old Pioneer Andrew Jones one.
@ Thanks for the reply I’ve got the ELAC Debut 2.0 Dolby Atmos enabled speakers for my front height speakers and the Pioneer Satellites with the built in Atmos heights for the rear Atmos that Andrew Jones worked on but I was thinking of upgrading to on wall height channels later.
@@Zshiro I think A.J. used the 2kHz dip "trick" on all the upfiring speakers he's designed.
@@joentell I think so too recently just went from a 5.2.4 channel layout to a 7.2.4 channel layout with an Emotiva A7 Amp and I have the Denon X-4500H AVR. I drive the main front left and right channels, and the rear surrounds channels through the AVR and the rest of the channels are run through the A7. I used the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit disc with Magic Beans and it sounds great. But I’m still not sure about the crossovers it set with the fronts and center at 60Hz, Surrounds at 90Hz, Surround Backs at 80Hz, and both Dolbys at 150Hz.
@@Zshiro if you use SACT, you can listen for when bass drops off. That should help with crossover points
Bookshelf speakers usually review much better, if you could swing the aesthetic, from a sound perspective seems like getting some base and better sounds out of the heights with a double the quality bookshelf would be better. Take a pair of $500 bookshelves in stereo, these little atmos speakers prob wouldn't come close in stereo.
Another "expert" claims none of these low priced speakers have enough dynamic range and volume anyway, and the only thing to get is an expensive Perlisten.
Yo!
Nice review Joe. One thing I would have liked to see is once you had the proper avr xover selected to keep distortion in check, what kind of output are they capable of?
I don't have a specific SPL, but crossed 120Hz, I played them way louder than I would ever listen and it still sounded clean.
Use d'appolito speakers and you are fine.
For height speakers, that doesn't seem feasible. They are good for their horizontal off-axis response, but narrow vertically. They'll also be large and not point-source.
@joentell maybe not for athmos but for Auro it closes the dome above you. I got a perfect dome, like a VoG above my head. I want to have a diffuse and atmospheric surrounding sound around me, like I am standing on the street and I don't think that direct sounding speakers are the right way to get the natural sound. By the wide sound of d'appolitos you get this diffuse spherical sound. For me it's the best sound, sitting under the dome. Very important are the angles from the speaker to you and the speaker to the ceiling. I got a 7.2.4 Setup in Atmos/Auro compromise setup (Auro+Athmos changed the angle) and I only hear Auro Upmixer. It is in any way better than Athmos, even in athmos mixed sound, sounds better in Auro Upmixer in my opinion. Auro is for the natural sounding, more complicated to set up than athmos and more natural. You can even adjust the sound intensity of Auro that is not possible for athmos but you will know that. I think Auro is the better Athmos.
Greetings from Germany.
@@LauPlum-sn6ts I might know a few things about Auro3D. th-cam.com/video/vKX13MRWIBI/w-d-xo.html
I've interviewed Wilfred Van Baelen many times on our Daily HiFi podcast. I still don't think D'appolito is the correct type of speaker for heights. I think concentric is the best suited for that job.
The last video I watched was 5 years ago you're getting a little gray like me LOL they don't make s*** like they used to in the 60s
2 kids will do that. 🤣
@joentell ✌️
I believe music Can Heal the World. I want a couple days without watching news the media the MTM Network I feel like a new person.... I just listen to music making music is better although I'm not really good at it
favorite of speakers that should not exist unless u like paying more for less. Atmos specific speakers are just plain stupid.
Do you prefer bookshelf speakers for heights, or do you just not Atmos in general?
the SAME as all the others no matter how many
@@joentellatmos wants identical speakers all around for full intended immersion, No getting around it. We need to be looking more at pa speakers for best atmos as u can get smallish speakers with incredible dymamics using compression drivers.
@@bingdong8571 I have identical speakers in my 7.1.4 studio setup and it does help for timber matching but they still need EQ since the room affects the response of each differently. Most PA speakers I've seen are much too large for heights for a home theater setup. They also need power which means 2 long wires to run with one being signal. It's easier to run speaker cables.
you can play the eq game all day long. You need better speakers. Also, there are plenty of small passive pa or pt speakers out there if u LOOK.
Got that tweeter in my Silverado. Nvx /sd