Great points! Some CRNAs I work with are very cocky. The difference is one is a nurse and the other a physician. One could be awesome as a CRNA and have amazing skills ..but the training and knowledge the physician has is well above that of a nurse
I’m glad you saw the video for what it was. Too many people get an almost instinctive defensive stance when these two careers are mentioned side by side, while I was trying to make an honest clear comparison for people interested in going into anesthesia and are still in the early stages of their education. I have the utmost respect for anesthesiologists, as I do for surgeons, CRNA’s, PA’s, NP’s, nurses. maintenance staff, the Uber eats delivery drivers. Basically everyone. lol And I think it should be clear that CRNA’s regardless of our degree are not physicians. We do not obtain our MD or DO. The most important thing is being a great team member, and like you said being awesome at whatever it is you do. The only goal should be benefitting the patient, and by putting ego aside, stripping ourselves of any cockiness or nonsensical competition, we ultimately benefit the patient and each other. Sorry if that hasn’t always been your experience. You seem like someone who would work towards that environment!
@@balla2828 Nope, CRNA's are nurses that received a doctorate degree in nursing. Med school is to become a physician. CRNA are ultimately nurses at the end of the day.
To be an anaesthetist in Australia it would literally be Bachelors degree + med school + a few years as a junior doctor working in various specialties e.g. obstetrics, cardiology, surgery, emergency medicine etc. + 5 years anaesthesia training rotating through intensive care, emergency, and anaesthesia, and sometimes prehospital retrieval medicine. It's wild to me that US MD anaesthetists do such a short residency straight out of med school and even more wild that CRNA's exist.
Hec yeah! That’s why Australia anesthesia is so famous. In the US we have a saying “Australia. The best at koalas, kangaroos, and anesthesia” hope to visit some day!
THANK YOU FOR THIS! I think you have the grasp of COLLABORATIVE medicine. There are clear distinction between Nursing and Medicine BOTH are valuable to the patient but the respect should be there for both professions.
Some CRNA want "more autonomy" but the Anesthesiologist gets sued when the CRNA makes a mistake. I know Anethesiologist who saw a patient where the CRNA introduced themselves as the "anesthetist doctor" causing confusion....Not only is it misleading, but a CRNA/DNP should not be implying their the MD. No wonder theres conflict sometimes
I certainly agree with your second statement. I personally feel that the introduction from the CRNA in your example as “the anesthetist doctor” was inappropriate, and is not only misleading but can absolutely lead to confusion for the patient. As a crna I introduce myself as such, and if I’m working with an anesthesiologist I explain to the patient “your anesthesiologist today will be Dr. _____” again, this is my personal opinion as what’s best and most clear for the patient and team. At the end of the day patient centered care should be the priority, and clearly defining ourselves and our colleagues can prevent a lot of confusion AND conflict which ultimately benefits the patient.
I know an easy fix to this. Anesthesiologists stop lobbying and we make all Crna’s independent in every state. It’s all about money and nothing to do with patient care.
Bro, I totally agree with your take on being proud to be a nurse, being proud to be a CRNA. We all worked hard to get where we are at, but what’s in a name? What’s in a title? Ugh...
Great video, Josiah! Your humble attitude and down to earth disposition set you apart from all of the other TH-cam CRNAs. Your videos inspire hope and make the journey seem achievable. Thank you for your inspiring content! ☮️ 👍🏾 Best of luck!
What’s up man, I tried to go to college to be a CRNA after I graduated high school in 08 but it was gonna be too hard because of my cerebral palsy, so now I donate to the CRNA Foundation
There is so so so much more to life than a degree or a profession. THANK YOU for continuing your passion and just being an amazing human being. Making a difference in the world. It’s more than most people ever get to do. So thank you! And I hope you continuously find the happiness and positivity that you deserve!
I have a brain tumor and suffer epilepsy. I am considering both of them and which one would be better for me. I’m about to graduate with a bachelors in business lmao completely different field.
Awesome vid; quick note though before med school, while they can get a bachelor degree in anything, prerequsites must be taken. Meaning even if your degree is in jazz or something you must have taken most upper level biology, chemistry, physics, and statistics before even being eligible to take the MCAT. Totally agree with everything you said, I've never worked with a CRNA who wasn't amazing, extremely competent, and a pleasure to work with. When the anesthesiologist isn't in one of the four rooms, they are usually in the command center with all four rooms pulled up monitoring the flowcharts of vitals and meds so they can know where they will need to be, and anticipate things in a context of critical care medicine with regard to patient's comorbidities the surgery and so on. I do think some of the politics at the upper levels is unnecessary, the AANA pushing hard for total independence isn't something I totally agree with because while a lot of bread and butter cases are fine without a MD ever being near the patient, things, as I'm sure you've seen, can go south very fast and a physician with all the medical training coming into back up the CRNA wit the full spectrum of physician knowledge and training leads to best outcomes. I also don't like to ever see a CRNA disparaged as "just a nurse anesthetist" because I think most people don't understand just how rigorous CRNA school is. CRNA schools have really maintained excellent quality control of its graduates and programs, esp compared to so many online NP degree mills. When you see someone with a "CRNA" on their badge you can rely on their skillset and knowledge regardless of where they went to school because the degree itself rightly carries the weight and prestige it deserves. Generally feel the same about PAs as well, very good quality control always producing excellent graduates regardless of individual program.
Wow. Thank you for a really well thought out and informative post. You’re absolutely right, I was hoping to explain to those pursuing medical school they don’t have to major in the usual chemistry/bio, but they do require the courses you listed and the MCAT. I believe your detail can be very beneficial to those pursuing medical school to become an anesthesiologist. Thank you. I also appreciate and relate to your sentiment on a healthy and mutually inclusive anesthesia care team. The politics in anesthesia should not have crna vs anesthesiologist but instead a cohesive unit with us all working toward advancing the profession as a whole. I can’t overstate my respect and appreciation for anesthesiologists and the vast amount of knowledge, experience and specialty they bring to each case. I’m hopeful for a new progressive generation of professionals within anesthesia that simply advance the profession as a whole, work together, show an understanding and appreciation for the roles we all have (not just in anesthesia, but from skilled surgeon to the incredible janitorial staff within our hospitals) and provide the best care for the patients having some of their scariest and worst days. So, thank you again for an informative and positive post. Best of luck throughout your career.
LONG POST (feel free to skip): My one big critique is that you don’t do full justice to the difference in training. Calling in the physician anesthesiologist is NOT just for another set of eyes or another mind like you’re implying. A physician’s training is far deeper in terms of pathology, physiology, pharmacology, treatment, etc. than a CRNA’s. In essence, CRNAs can do a lot of the same bread-and-butter work just as well as physicians (speaking as a whole on average), but they are not trained or equipped to deal with more complicated cases or comprehensive perioperative care to the level of a physician. That’s NOT a knock on CRNAs at all but rather a natural consequence of the difference in depth of training. That said, I think anesthesia professionals from both sides are often so much more pleasant and fun to work with than surgeons or experienced scrub techs for example (who not always but very often have egos in my experience), which is SO important within the context of a care team model. Overall great video comparing career paths. Also a great positive attitude avoiding the contentious mindset of current debating! Best wishes with your training/work!
I love and appreciate this comment. I did not mean to downplay the strenuous path to becoming an anesthesiologist and the knowledge and skills developed along the way. I think anesthesia as a whole should come together and find ways to constantly advance and grow within our profession to make it as safe, comfortable and positive for the patients. Thanks for this comment!
bur really though, how much deeper can they actually be going into these trainings? To go through RN, BSN, Masters and then 1 year in ICU experience before finally doing 3 years med school for CRNA is A LOT of training that Anesthesiologists never go through... at the very least it seems to me they are equal. Why not?
Hi. I'm a Hospitalist PA in Washington, D.C. This is a great comparison! I've interviewed CRNAs. We have an OR in our small LTAC hospital. The surgeons only use CRNAs as far as I know. There's never been any issues with the CRNAs. They're GREAT! BTW, we PAs are having the same 😒 "Doctor" issue (Doctor of PA😆) by some who are pushing for it!😡 I think the "team" understanding, creates a good dynamic.
Keep it pushing brother! I’m working on my pre reqs for nursing and can’t wait to put my work in with bedside nursing in the icu after nursing school and then go into crna school!
We all are worker bees at the end of the day. You are a good soul homie.....even the highest paid docs and executives are worker bees because they have to be present to bring in the revenue....people like business owners and investors that don’t have to be present everyday and their money makes money for itself are the real giants. So all that title stuff is just egoes. You a good homie because you want to change the world with love and curing the sick.
Really appreciated this video. I love that you've emphasized that it's a team effort that we should all be working towards. I'm currently working on an LVN license with hopes of being a CRNA in the future. I was wondering if you knew of anyone who had come in with a BSN that went to a DNAP program or if they were required to get their MSN first. There's so much info out there that it can get a little confusing when looking at the fine details...
I definitely understand that. Sometimes there’s an information overload and it can get confusing. So the way it works is: BSN -> ICU RN -> CRNA school MOST CRNA schools are doctorate levels now, but some are still masters. Regardless of which one you get int they’ll get you through the schooling and you’ll be able to become a CRNA. No need to worry about getting a masters first. Hope that helps!
Hello sr my name is Arshed Im nurse from iraq I studied for two years and I have bachelor in nursing two years wich equivalent for three years study outside iraq now im in Turkey refugee .. So in case I came to Canada would you advice me to become CRNA My age is 34 years old single When I were in the hospital I saw the anaesthesia assistant and how they work I loves that carrier so would you advice me to join it ? Now I don't have money . Thank you
A good anesthesiologist will be a thoughtful risk mitigator adjusting the anesthetic plan based on the patent's comorbidities and the specifics of the surgical case. This is in addition* to being helpful with any challenging procedures and any intraop emergencies.
@@ricardooconnor2362 great question! When I made this video I had never heard of CAA’s. I don’t do TH-cam much anymore, but I’d explain CRNA’s do bachelors, 2+ years ICU nursing, 3-5 years for a DNP-NA (I think there may be some masters programs left but most have been phased out). CAA’s don’t work in all states, but they’re certainly expanding! I’d have to learn more about CAA’s to comment on their education process but it sounds like you know so I’ll trust that. But yes they’re also an option for those considering anesthesia! All exciting, all parts of an awesome team in healthcare!
Thank you for the video!! I currently work in the dental field but recently sparked an interest in becoming a CRNA or Anesthesiologist! I haven’t decided yet 🥴
Hi, I believe it is Dr. Josiah now😂, I have an undergraduate degree so I have been thinking about taking the pre-requisite courses online and then going for one year accelerated nursing school. My plan is to be a CRNA. As you said, ICU experience is a must so how competitive is it to land an ICU job nowadays especially in California?
Hi! I got my doctorate but I’m just Josiah forever and always 😁 to answer your question it truly depends on the hospital, but there’s no reason you couldn’t get an ICU job in California! Cast a wide net by applying to different hospital ICU’s. Best of luck in your journey!
Aloha man. You actually making a excellent encouragement point for CRNA. Congratulations that your hanging in there. You are humble and you make an excellent point in becoming a CRNA. I have a MSN/ED, BSN. I’m looking to go to Law school however, I and obtaining a clinical post MSN in nursing the adult/Gerontology NP. However, CRNA school is another idea. I have the requisite education except Chemistry. I been in critical care nursing including trauma level two only. I also have several years in acute Hemodialysis. If you would share the school your attending and what prerequisites did you have to take and your GPA. For my RN to BSN my GPA is 3.7 and my MSN 3.67. Mahalo bro.
I feel like there’s always going to be tension between people in nursing professions and medical professions. It’s unfortunate. We are all needed; we all have our own respected roles. And ultimately we’re all on the same team, focused on our patients.
It’s human nature.....shoo at the pizza shop...the pizza makers be jealous of the drivers...no matter what you will always get salty people from that salty ass ocean. The only thing you can do is just love the world. And this homie is passionate and will change the world
Justin T. No such thing as “just being a floor nurse” bro. Floor nurses will ALWAYS have some of my deepest respect as professionals who provide direct care to extremely sick people. Through highly stressful situations, despite incredibly hard days, gaining a deep level of understanding and being the most trusted profession in the world multiple years in a row? What you’re doing is great and I’ll always feel that way.
MDs ib Anesthesiology have 3 times more clinical hours compared to CRNAs after finishing the residency. Plus MDs work with really complex and complicated cases like cardiothorathic cases, or complex head traumas, organ transplantation whereas CRNAs usully take easier cases called bread and butter. Most of times CRNAs are not even working in full scope of their practice like not doing regional blocks at all. CRNAs are still nurses and considered to take the bulk or a big chunk of easier cases compared to MDs.
Thanks for the reply John John. I made this video with every attempt to provide transparent information without bias. There is so much ego in anesthesia from many anesthesiologists and CRNA’s alike, and I believe that ego causes confusion for people on the outside looking in. Your comment clearly comes from your personal experience, and it may be very true for where you work and other institutions. But it’s not true for all. I’ve been in hospitals where CRNA’s make up “the heart team” and work in complex cardiac cases all the time, where CRNA’s do the complex neuro cases and no case is off limits. In the further attempt of full transparency this is not the case for every hospital and there are many where your comment certainly applies. Where CRNA’s USUALLY do the “bread and butter” cases. I’d also like to say that anything unpracticed becomes challenging. I’ve seen people who routinely do complex cases, struggle with colonoscopies, but they swim through a liver transplant whereas I, and many others would fumble around more than a peewee football player. Also, MD’s and DO’s certainly perform the majority of regional blocks that aren’t the traditional spinal/epidural. Although I’ve been in hospitals where CRNA’s were on the block team, I’d certainly say that’s the exception rather than the rule. The clinical hours is something widely debated when CRNA’s discuss their educations anesthesia time compared to residents anesthesia time, then compared their time as a critical care nurse compared to residents time in medical school and the clinical time which was not anesthesia based. This argument? I’m not interested in. Because I’m not into what my grandmother calls “hotdog swinging contests.” Residency is an absolutely bear and in my opinion residents deserve more respect than they get. I’ll also say working as an ICU nurse was one of the wildest work and educational experiences of my life. Hand cranking ECMO? Doubt I’ll ever do that again. To say that CRNA’s are nurses is not wrong, but it’s misleading. I have my doctorate through nursing. Do I introduce myself to patients as doctor? No because I believe that’s also misleading. I am SO proud of being a nurse, it was one of the most challenging and gratifying jobs I’ve ever had, but CRNA’s are Nurse Anesthetists. I believe anesthesiologists and CRNA’s SHOULD BE on the same team. This made up “turf war” some choose to be in and invent does nothing to benefit patients. What I want to finally drive home is that I have the utmost respect for anesthesiologists. I do not believe CRNA’s are the same as anesthesiologists or anesthesiologists are the same as CRNA’s. I believe we are on the same team. Anesthesiologists are those who went through med school and residency to become physicians, CRNA’s are those who went through nursing school, critical care nursing and CRNA school to become CRNA’s. We’re different paths, who have some overlap in our jobs, on the same team but still different in our careers. I believe the more we work together as a team, lose the ego that plagues all aspects of healthcare, the better we can take care of the people who give us a reason to come into work. Thanks again for your comment. Hope you have a great day.
@@Buchavka perhaps 2 was the prior standard, mine was 3, and so are many others. But like I said I’m not trying to have a hotdog swinging contest. I have no issue saying my doctorate is not the MD or DO that anesthesiologists obtained. I’m no physician, I don’t go by doctor, but I’m very proud to be the crna I am and have traveled the path that I went. I’m surprised though you don’t know our education was 3, considering you’ve commented as though you know me and work with me, but never mention who you actually are.
@@JosiahShoon Isnt the first year of CRNA is just didactic/theory with no clinical practice? When Iw as referring to 2 years I meant the actual years where a CRNA starts doing things practically not just in a class room. I do not know you and do not work with you. As I said I am just a random user who found your nursing channel and just googled you in the internet.
@@Buchavka in your defense some programs are like that, others are not. Mine was not. It was one that is integrated, which means we entered into the OR year one and did three years. But this is honestly insignificant because it’s one of the lame divisive debates I don’t want to add fuel to for either side. Where we start comparing experience and arguing over our time. The truth of it is even if I had 8 years in the OR I still would not be a physician. My degree still would not be MD or DO, and I’m so perfectly fine with that, because I’m a crna, whose doctorate is through nursing. I love my job and do my best at it to provide for the patients we all care about. I very much support anesthesiologists and respect their role within the anesthesia and surgical team. This video was not at all meant to take from that, but an attempt at a very unbiased and honest comparison of two paths within anesthesia for those who are considering them. And ok let’s say you’re a random stranger, what’s odd to me is the channel with thousands of followers created in 2007 but no videos, why you deleted the Ivan larose/ Vanya and Russian info, why one of your locations pinged in California, how you type as though English is your second language. It’s just odd that you delete that info and only used this channel to comment to me you know? Maybe you were looking for a fight where there wasn’t one, but if we do work together I’ll treat you just the same. However if you ever want to talk without this odd anonymity I’m available. Even if it’s over a video chat etc. Hope you have a good day “John John” take care.
@@JosiahShoon And therein lies the problem. CRNAs need to understand that your profession is only as good as its worst programs. No one cares that you received all this amazing training. What really matters is that others in your profession did not, which makes them a liability.
The difference between anesthesiologists and CRNAs is not just "time and money". This is unfortunately oversimplified. Anesthesiologists are physicians and have a tremendous amount more training in anesthesia as well as broad training in medicine. The practice of anesthesiology is the practice of medicine and is therefore practiced by physicians. CRNAs are midlevel providers like NPs; they are all considered advanced practice registered nurses (APRNs). CRNAs do not have the requisite background medical knowledge or training to be considered medical experts in anesthesiology, irrespective of which level of nursing degree they achieve (masters or DNP). As for performing procedural tasks, yes this can be performed by anyone trained in doing such tasks. Such tasks are routinely carried out by Anesthesiologists, surgeons, residents in both fields as well as emergency medicine, and also by APRNS (critical care NPs, CRNAs) as well as anesthesia assistants. Anesthesiologists are responsible for the overall medical management of these patients in the perioperative period which may also include performing procedures. In addition, as this video mentions, anesthesiologists are also trained in critical care medicine and interventional chronic pain. Many chose to pursue fellowships in these fields or others, and work as palliative care physicians, sleep medicine physicians , to name a few. To summarize very briefly: Anesthesiology is the practice of medicine and is practiced by physicians. CRNAs practice nurse anesthesia the same way mid levels (NPs, PAs) contribute to other fields of medicine to extend medical services to many patients who cannot and perhaps do not need to be directly seen and assessed by a physician. That is to say they should be under the supervision of an anesthesiologist. If they are not supervised, they are practicing medicine independently, which they are not educated or trained to do and are therefore practicing outside of their scope as advanced practice nurses.
You need to do some research because 99% of what you said is 100% FALSE depending on the practice location. A PGY1 anesthesia resident in their first weeks/months is like a nursing student, they both never treated real live humans before and they are woefully unequipped yet teaching hospitals will throw that babydoc onto trauma/ICU coverage while the babynurse isn't even taking patients or treating observation patients independently for 2-3 months of real world. The "physician" (resident ) just went from medical student to HMFIC of critical care patients and they have no idea WTF they are doing for months (years with some), the CRNA has put in 3-5 (usually 7-10) years of direct patient care with a minimum of 3-5 in critical care before even applying to CRNA programs. This means that a CRNA has 4 years of undergrad, 3-5+ years in life HANDS ON DIRECT PATIENT CARE experience, THEN 4 years of graduate education so a minimum of 10-14 years of school/experience ... that medical student with an undergrad degree in geology gets 4 yrs of didactic and then BLAMO they are PGY1's with no clue weather to shit their pants or break down crying.. or both (I've seen each and both simultaneously). There's a reason that attrition rates for CRNA programs are 0%-1% while anesthesia programs wash out an AVERAGE of 27+% ... with some as high as 30%+ and that's obnoxious, this means the teaching program for physicians isn't adequately preparing them for real world when lives are on the line, the CRNA programs have a vested interest in graduating the full class of 15-30 providers who must all then pass boards and licensing before practicing... a MD can fail boards and continue to practice for 50+ years without anyone or anything stopping them and only an average of 70% of anesthesiaologist are actually board certified! Depending on practice location a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, or CRNA, is permitted to provide a level of care that would otherwise require a physician just across state lines, such as prescribing controlled medications, designing plans of pain-management care and even directly billing the insurance and Medicaid/ Medicare system without going through a physician. FYI - nurses were the first to deliver surgical anesthesia, during the Civil War, and currently perform an estimated two-thirds of all anesthesia procedures. mic drop...
@@mattgayda2840 Please, anyone reading this disregard this guy. I don't know what type of provider he is; frankly I hope for the sake of healthcare he is not. Please provide a resources for your stats. I do not believe a single one of them. (ie. 70% of anesthesiologists board certified!! what planet? Other physicians who fail board examinations practicing independently for 50+ years!! Not a chance. Anesthesiology residency program attrition rates... I personally know that is woefully inaccurate). Thank-you for adding to the sea of completely false statistics on the internet. I have nothing but respect for the profession of nursing, and the compassionate people who dedicated themselves to its practice. The educational background of physicians and nurses is very different. you're comparison of medical and nursing education shows your ignorance. You have clearly never been an intern. You cannot appreciate the struggle, the learning curve. The amount of times we rely on seasoned nurses and our own senior residents and attendings would astound you i'm sure. Residency is postgraduate medical education, for your information. Residents work 80 hour weeks and studying when they are not working to make sure the decisions they eventually make independently are as informed as possible, which brings me to my next point. The way you try to humiliate a new physician, a physician still in training is pathetic. Making light of someone's breakdown is about as low as you can get in this field. You don't understand the pressure of having to make decisions in a lonely ward in the middle of the night on limited information. You have never been through the rigors of training to look after patients independently. If you had you would never say the things you did in your post. Finally, I will no longer get involved with internet trolls. It's a shame we cannot have a civilized discussion. "Mic drop"....get a grip. You're embarrassing yourself. Whatever provider group you belong to, please remember they are painted with the same brush.
@@alexhall9854 I have to say I agree with a fair amount of your statement here. I think the stats are likely way off. A couple of points, however, regarding your IP can be addressed. First of all, the practice of anesthesiology isn't only the practice of medicine. That is simply an ASA talking point. They have arbitrarily developed that viewpoint because it benefits organized medicine. Nurses were the first historical anesthesia providers for organized healthcare ( references are plentiful, so I'm not citing anything). The term anesthesiology simply means the study of anesthesia. Both physicians and nurses do it. Nobody can own it. No one can argue that physicians have greater education over a broader medical base. To do so is simply wrong. But this does not discount the ability for nurses to ALSO learn as residents do from experts across many fields, and therefore are as capable in the field of anesthesia as physicians. Vast resources support the safety of CRNAs providing anesthesia without supervision or direction and there is absolutely zero evidence to support the notion that being a physician improves anesthesia care. It may not seem logical - but it's simply what the data shows. It doesn't care about anyone's feelings. Regarding board certification, the previous poster is wrong about the numbers. However, there is a key difference - 100% of CRNAs are required to be board certified. And 100% must recertify every 2 years by CME and every 8 years by exam. They cannot, in any context, provide anesthesia care otherwise. This is not true of physicians. Physicians can legally provide basically whatever care they desire (provided they have facility privileges) without any type of board certification. All that is required is to graduate from med school and be licensed as an MD or DO. I have worked with many physicians providing anesthesia who either failed their boards or never took them. They had provided anesthesia for years. I think they were great providers - but the technical point is that physicians are a little loose in this area and it would probably behoove organized medicine to clean up some of these finer points. I actually worked with a physician who had failed her boards so many times that she was no longer eligible to take them, yet she provided anesthesia care every day. She was a terrible provider. She was the Anesthesia Director at that hospital. This would NEVR fly for a CRNA, but, alas, we are a doctor-centric culture. My point here is not to disparage physician anesthesia providers, because I admire many of the physician anesthesia providers I have worked with in my 25 years as a CRNA. As with any type of provider, some are very good and others are not very good (or just plain bad). One of the big differences is that if a CRNA is a bad provider, they seldom are allowed to keep providing care. Physicians, on the other hand, because they are physicians, almost never get called out for being a bad provider until someone gets hurt.
@@mattgayda2840 are you serious dude?Why do you think anesthesiologists make so much more than CRNAs.Its because they are experts in anesthesia.Why do u think they have longer and more difficult training?Why do they have much larget debt?Is it because they like school more and want to waste part of their life studying?I dont think so
@@davidshepherd7940 you have to accept the difference in training of a CRNA and a doctor.The experience CRNAs must have to become one doesnt even compare to medical school and residency where residents work 80hrs a week for minimal wage.If you cant accept it then you are simply delusional
This is not an accurate statement. CRNAs are 100% responsible for the care they provide. I could see the anesthesiologist being more accountable in a medically directed anesthesia care model because they are typically a 4:1 ratio. If the MDA wants to direct care, they should take part in the responsibility. However, people should know that CRNAs practice independently in many different care settings and practice with full autonomy and responsibility. The anesthesia care model determines how much shared responsibility there is for the patient. Medical direction, medical supervision, or if the CRNA is an independent contractor working completely solo, such as in a rural area.
I’m confused on how the hourly salary for a CRNA would work, for example if there is a day where there is only 1 surgery taking place and it takes 2 hours to complete. Do the CRNA’s get payed for only those two hours throughout the whole day? And what do CRNA’s usually do if there is a day where there is no surgery or anesthesia required?
7:50 is why anesthesiologists are worth what they're paid. You don't become an MD to be good at placing LMAs or doing A lines. It's the depth of knowledge with what you do when stuff doesn't go well that fellowship and residency training provides. Not knocking CRNAs, but that's what the difference is.
Anesthesiologists are ABSOLUTELY worth what they’re paid for, and I feel the same for CRNA’s. That’s why there’s a pay gap that I’m also perfectly ok with. MD’s and DO’s on a care team have multiple rooms they’re running between and an emergency can happen in any of them. Residency, fellowship, a multitude of things are worthy of respecting anesthesiologists. And that’s coming from a very proud CRNA. With all sincerity thanks for your comment, and thanks for all you do.
Pretty sure I’ve corrected many mds on when “stuff doesn’t go well”. I understand why mds should get paid more because schooling costs more. But for anesthesiologists to make 2 -3x more, that’s messed up.
@@JohnDoe-pb5ks I don’t see it. I have had better training and I have studied harder because I know I can run circles around any anesthesiologist you throw at me.
Hey man. I know im 3 years late but than you for making this video. I just started my CNA class today. I'll be frank, I want to be a CRNA for the money, but also because I do just genuinely enjoy helping people. Do you have any tips to get through the RN program and eventually the CRNA program
Hey man! Appreciate the frankness and totally understand wanting a career for the money! Paying rent is why we work. lol BUT I also want to say it costs a lot to get the degree, and no amount of money is worth not loving what you do so I hope you love it AND it pays off well for you! Tips are simple: show up every day, be enthusiastic and the best I can give is have a good sense of humor and thick skin. Those two things are what got me through a lot! Best of luck to you! And by the way being a CNA first will give you a huge advantage over people in the RN program who were not!
Hi, I believe it is Dr. Josiah now😂, I have an undergraduate degree so I have been thinking about taking the pre-requisite courses online and then going for one year accelerated nursing school. My plan is to be a CRNA. As you said, ICU experience is a must so how competitive is it to land an ICU job nowadays especially in California?
James Peek thank you James! Once an ICU Nurse always an ICU Nurse even when I graduate and stop working as an ICU Nurse, that job will always have a place in my heart and anyone who does it has respect from me.
Didn’t the Nurses Association recently require that CRNA to obtain their Doctorate starting in a few years in order to practice? I think current CRNA will be grandfathered but the educational bar has been risen.
It's not really grandfathered in. But you won't lose your current job if you don't have a doctorate. It just means that now entry level Nurse Anesthetists will all be doctorate trained. The schools and association still want you to go back to school to get your doctorate, but there are pros and cons to do that
Comes down to the volume of training ..an Anaesthesiologist is far more deeply and broadly trained. As "the big brain in charge", if a CRNA screws up, the MD also gets called to the carpet..and court.
This is not true. CRNAs can work independently is many states and that is growing every year. If the CRNA is working independently, there is no one to call to court except the CRNA. Same with any other profession.
Thanks so much Raja! It means a lot. I don’t really post on TH-cam much anymore but It makes my day to read comments like this. Best career on earth! Glad to have you with us!
Dude THANK YOU. I’ve felt that there’s so much bias in many explanations and just wanted to give the information as true and respectful as I could. This means so much thank you!
I feel I gave a really unbiased opinion and had a respectful tone toward both professions while explaining how we work together. I didn’t intend to hurt anyone’s ego. Some are more fragile than others. The interesting debate is the MD vs DO debate. Some MD’s feel DO is a joke and has less clout than MD, while some DO programs refer to DO as the only “complete physician” those chats get pretty wild. With DO’s getting into school easier but still being called physicians, personally idc about the initials. If a provider is great they’re great, and if they’re not they’re not. I’ve never been one to care about titles, but your comment is a joke. I explained the course of action necessary to become a CRNA. You know it’s a doctorate level degree, you know it takes 9 years to obtain if not more depending on the amount of time spent working in critical care. I gave one simple quote and expanded upon that and felt I did it with absolute positive intent. People who go through the medical school route become physicians, people who go through crna route become CRNA’s. I think it’s possible for us all to enjoy our professions and get along without having some need to downplay or attack the other. Thanks for watching.
@@JosiahShoon MD = DO. They take the same bords as us. Only the old guard of physicians still think this way. We viewed them as a joke initially until they raised their education standards to match ours. DO’s do still struggle to get into the most competitive specialties like derm or CT surg.
@@JosiahShoon Never heard any debate about MD versus DO. Though the gpa and MCAT might be slightly lower to get into medical program in DO schools, the level of education and material covered is same once you get in, in addition to the osteopathic manipulation for DOs. We do have our own boards but many DO students take STEP1 and 2 which allopathic medical students take. And residencies are merged so at the end of the day, the training and exams are similar if not same for some applicants. Comparing time is irrelevant and too simplistic as other medical pathways and careers do not cover the exact same material or the depth or variety or is structured in the medicine model of care. You often hear midlevels say they do rotations, but to me that is an incorrect comparison. Even for the two years of clinicals, each rotation whether internal medicine or surgery, requires students to know the medicine and application in-and-out for better patient care and also work intern hours at times. But alas, clinical experience is not enough, as we have shelf exams administered by the national board for each rotation and a second board exams, which test critical thinking and problems solving with mostly 3rd order questions. My point is time is an irrelevant comparison because what you do and learn in that time matters more. But I do understand not every journey has to be the same and each has its challenges and nuances that we do not understand about the other. I do respect other career paths and doing what we do for patients. -Speaking as a current 4th year about to start residency with MDs and DOs.
@@burneymaha92 I’m glad to hear you haven’t run into that debate and as an earlier comment mentioned I’m hopeful it is only an old school thought process some physicians (soon to retire) feel necessary to discuss or even compare. My point is people love to compare labels and titles. Even when it’s unnecessary. When a close friend of mine was applying to medical school the MD vs DO debate was enough for them to decide on a different school in order to obtain their MD not their DO. As I mentioned, some of the best physicians I’ve worked with are DO, some of the best I’ve worked with are MD. I agree there shouldn’t be debate between those titles. There also shouldn’t be debate or comparison between physician and CRNA’s, we are two different careers within anesthesia. I have no desire to be a physician, to be labeled as a physician, and people who go to school to be physicians have no desire to be labeled as CRNA’s. My main point and purpose of this video was to help people who are currently starting their journey towards a career and help them gain information on the differences and similarities. I’m hopeful that the new generations of providers act as you and some of the comments within this video. A team of people focused on providing the highest quality of care for our patients. That’s been the majority of my experience these past three years in anesthesia, and I’m hopeful to foster and continue building that experience along with the countless providers both physician and CRNA, focused on accomplishing the same.
I'm in nursing school right now, but looking at various specialties. Are there specific jobs or certifications you should get before going into CRNA? Like do you need ER/ICU experience or would OR experience work? Just wanting to know my options.
hello @Josiah Shoon ,,,, I am currently a nursing student in Kenya pursuing my bachelor's degree in nursing and my question is can I apply for a CRNA program as soon as I graduate?? and if I can which university would you recommend for instance the one you studied in,
Hi! Most schools in the US require atleast 1 year experience of working as a nurse. Do research on the university you choose, keeping in mind costs, program length, program type, etc. If you’re an international student, make sure the university you are looking into accept international students. Number 1 tip for international students is do tons of research
CRNA's are fundamentally a nurse trained form the narrower perspective of a nurse 1st and foremost with a 4 year focus in anesthesia. Nursing pre req courses are not in the same league as pre med prereq courses. Medical school spend 4 years on all organ systems and various hospital rotations. CRNA aren't some unique special bunch that has found a way to learn what medical student learns in less time with less training. An MD is trained from a wideeee ocean perspective of what medicine is and learns to think as an internist 1st and foremost by completing an intern year of various rotations with IM being the longest followed by surgery. Both have a role and are critical to Anesthesia in the U.S. but only 1 is the expert in their field. Lobbying politicians to full practice doesn't bring them to the same education level as an MD. CRNA has no chance passing an ABA board exam.
CRNAs will be fine with 99% of cases and are cost efficient. However, I would rather have an MD covering my surgery just in case. I am not taking any risks
I would say it;s a myth and disservice to say that CRNA found a way to learn what medical students learn but in less time. It's not the same, coming from someone who knows a CRNA who transferred to medical school. The amount, type, and depth of material is much much more. That being said, I appreciate the role and help of other medical professionals and you guys are so important and needed.
Midlevels play a key role but that difference of time an money can not and should not be over looked. However, saying that a midlevel can provide the same care as an anesthesiologist is wrong. The abilities of an BC/BE Anesthesiologist along with their physiological understanding FAR surpass the abilities of a nurse anesthesiologist. They work together but you want the anesthesiologist for the 20% that does not go as planned or complex. The 200-250K a CRNA makes is an incredible salary for a midlevel and they fill a key role. In my view the difference is technician vs physician. Lastly the term "Doctor" should be reserved solely for physicians in a clinical setting.
This was extremely well put, logical and sincere. I agree with so much of it. I’d also like to say that there are nurse anesthetists who have incredible time and experience in anesthesia who have very high level skills, knowledge and wisdom, this doesn’t make them an anesthesiologist, but I believe it deserves a mutual respect (which you clearly have). Regardless of time, experience, skill etc CRNA’s are CRNA’s anesthesiologists are anesthesiologists. I believe pay and title should reflect as much, and we all know when we enter into the work environment that we have to earn or lose respect based on our work. I also agree that I don’t call myself doctor, but I do address and introduce my physician colleagues as doctor. Anyways seriously appreciate your comment hope you have a great day.
Umm, CRNA is not a physician, anesthesiologist is a physician.. big difference, much more than just time and money. The depth of knowledge of a physician is far greater than that of a CRNA.
Thanks Betty. I couldn’t agree more. CRNA is not a physician, and I explained they are two separate paths. Medical school, residency in the physician route, ICU nursing, CRNA school, CRNA route. Thought I was super clear but to be certain: CRNA’s, Nurse practitioners, PA’s, nurses, respiratory therapists, dentists, podiatrists, optometrists, physical therapists, speech pathologists, bartenders and pizza delivery drivers are not physicians.
@@balla2828 A physician goes to pre med, then four years of medical school and in addition they do another 3 years of residency specifically for anesthesia. A CRNA is an RN with a four year nursing degree and they go to school for another 3 years to become a nurse anesthetist.
@@bettysmith4527 An RN also goes through “pre-RN”, then goes to RN school and then must get a BSN, MSN and THEN goes to CRNA school. How many more years is a physician actually spending?
The difference between nurse and doctor starts in elementary school bro. Doctors have the highest GPa and SAT scores compared to most any profession. The candidates who get into medical school are like standard deviations higher than those in nursing school. It’s not just “time and money”. The training is vastly different. When nurses say there’s no difference, they just can’t comprehend the difference.
This is actually not true, it is a pathway you choose both jobs are challenging but it is usually just a shift in responsibility and sometimes culture, like how much school you want to go to.
@@soyes2631 without the grades, You can’t “choose” to go to medical school and be a doctor. It’s not a choice. Every physician would have gotten into nursing school, so yes for them it may be a choice. Very few nurses have the undergrad cred to choose to go to medical school. This is the truth.
@@walterclements2877 straight facts, going to Medical school doesn't correlate to you being smart. I know a lot of dumb doctors. I was pursuing the med school route, maintained a 4.0 GPa throughout my educational career and only need to take two more quarters at UCLA to receive my BS. I changed to CRNA due to time and money of med school.
If I was a CRNA, I wouldn’t want full autonomy. Would that not defeat the purpose of being a nurse? Some of us can’t handle the full responsibility. Let’s be real. Not to say I would do my best, obviously. But you know what I mean.
You seem like a wonderful and uplifting person. I would love to get to know you better❤. I'm in my last year of nursing school and plan on becoming a CRNA in the future
Josiah Shoon thanks man! Is it normal to feel like an idiot during clinicals? I feel like I can’t eve stand properly without gaining some constructive criticism. Lol
10000% normal. It of course depends on your preceptor (some are absolutely amazing and truly love building students up into CRNA’s while some others thrive off making students feel small) and the clinical site culture (some site cultures are built upon teaching students and remembering that they were once students as well, whereas other site cultures are built upon students being a burden with expectations to do everything perfectly) you will learn or already know which sites and preceptors fit those descriptions, but always remember. You will one day be a CRNA, you were already an ICU Nurse, and take the good from each person and place, leave the bad, and become the person to other you’d want to have had for yourself. Best of luck! It’ll be over before you know it!
This is a great question Hanin and I want to answer it clearly. These are two totally separate tracks. CRNA is a terminal degree, often doctorate in nursing practice - nurse anesthesia, anesthesiologist is a terminal degree either medical doctor or doctor of osteopathic medicine. People usually go from their bachelors and then decide which route they’re going to take, the CRNA or the physician route. CRNA’s don’t typically go back and start medical school (although I know of one who has) if you were going to do this it would be approximately 10 years to get your CRNA then you would have to go all the way back and start medical school path towards anesthesiologist, what I do know is there are people who get their bachelors in nursing and then go on to medical school to become anesthesiologist. I’ve met a couple of them. I hope this answers your question clearly. Best of luck on whatever path you decide to lead! Both amazing professions filled with incredible people!
What’s the point of calling yourself an anesthetist if you aren’t pushing the anesthesia? I don’t understand why that exists other than for anesthesiologists to make more money
Almost every crna program is full time, unable to work, MAYBE per diem but that’s often lost too. I know of one crna program that makes it possible to work but it takes about twice as long to complete. Their philosophy is giving opportunity to people who want to become a crna but also need to provide an income for their children, family, etc. Which is I think is awesome. But like I said almost every program is full time.
CRNA vs Anesthesiologist. Very simple to explain. CRNA a training program that thinks 14 years of education can be crammed into 20 month certification vs an anesthesiologist with 14 years of education and training before they’re allowed to play with your life.
I feel I was so respectful and honest in this video and in responses but what a joke that you include undergrad education in your math and call CRNA a “20 month program” 😂 what a clown. Everyone knows CRNA is 4 years undergrad, minimum 2 years ICU nursing, and 3 years of CRNA school. While anesthesiologist is 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school and 4 years residency with the OPTION of residency. Im not into this whole “us vs them” bullshit some CRNA’s and anesthesiologists subscribe to. But if you’re going to lie do it somewhere else.
@@JosiahShoon CRNAs are not trained to the same level as anesthesiologists and that’s the point, otherwise every CRNA would simply pass their MCATs, graduate an accredited medical school, complete residency and fellowships. It’s not a matter of respect or not. Scope creep is a real liability in healthcare.
@@etamlous CRNA’s are not trained as anesthesiologists and anesthesiologists are not trained as CRNA’s that’s an absolute point we can agree on. Anesthesiologists are physicians, the medical doctors in anesthesia either MD or DO. CRNA’s are nurse anesthetists. But calling CRNA’s education “20 months” instead of the actual minimum 9 year path to becoming a CRNA then including undergrad education in your math for anesthesiologist but not CRNA’s (both 4 years) is misleading and laughable. It’s like when CRNA’s say “we have more real life skills because we worked intensive care while anesthesiologists never touch critically ill patients until they graduated med school” which is also a lame ass sentiment I don’t agree with. CRNA’s are CRNA’s, anesthesiologists are anesthesiologists and this video was meant to be informative for people of all walks of life considering anesthesia as a career option.
@@JosiahShoon👏🏾 don’t listen to him. I am working towards my BSN rn. And was thinking about the CRNA path. You inspired me to take it up. So thank you I’ll definitely keep up with your channel.
Feels like diluted midlevel routes are becoming priotized for our profit hungry healthcare system, rather than actually creating more slots for physicians and quality providers. All due respect to CRNAs but I see no incentive to be a physician, unless you're trying to be a surgeon.
I’m genuinely sorry you feel this way. Because I think this team model should be exactly that. A team, and as a team we should be benefiting each other. In my ideal world CRNA’s would benefit anesthesiologists and visa versa. I certainly don’t want prioritization, and I love working the anesthesiologists that I work with. Hopefully we progress forward where the incentive to join anesthesia increases in all aspects. Thanks for your honesty.
Nobody should ever push your drugs. That’s your patient. That’s your anesthetic. If someone else wants to push my drugs then you can stay and finish the case.
Honestly... and to each their own, but never understood the "I push my own drugs". As long as an attending doesn't try to belittle me (like I don't know how to dose), micromanage me and they don't push everything in the syringe and walk out with the BP 40/10 then I don't care. I don't anything to prove to anyone. But that's just me.
“I don’t care whatchu call me really, just don’t call me late for dinner and make sure my check is in the mail!” Mic drop! 🤣🤣🤣
This is what made me subscribe 🤣
I used to say “you can call me anything but fat” 😅
Lol
Facts
Great points! Some CRNAs I work with are very cocky. The difference is one is a nurse and the other a physician. One could be awesome as a CRNA and have amazing skills ..but the training and knowledge the physician has is well above that of a nurse
I’m glad you saw the video for what it was. Too many people get an almost instinctive defensive stance when these two careers are mentioned side by side, while I was trying to make an honest clear comparison for people interested in going into anesthesia and are still in the early stages of their education. I have the utmost respect for anesthesiologists, as I do for surgeons, CRNA’s, PA’s, NP’s, nurses. maintenance staff, the Uber eats delivery drivers. Basically everyone. lol And I think it should be clear that CRNA’s regardless of our degree are not physicians. We do not obtain our MD or DO. The most important thing is being a great team member, and like you said being awesome at whatever it is you do. The only goal should be benefitting the patient, and by putting ego aside, stripping ourselves of any cockiness or nonsensical competition, we ultimately benefit the patient and each other. Sorry if that hasn’t always been your experience. You seem like someone who would work towards that environment!
Dont CRNAs go to Med School?
@@balla2828 Nope, CRNA's are nurses that received a doctorate degree in nursing. Med school is to become a physician. CRNA are ultimately nurses at the end of the day.
To be an anaesthetist in Australia it would literally be Bachelors degree + med school + a few years as a junior doctor working in various specialties e.g. obstetrics, cardiology, surgery, emergency medicine etc. + 5 years anaesthesia training rotating through intensive care, emergency, and anaesthesia, and sometimes prehospital retrieval medicine.
It's wild to me that US MD anaesthetists do such a short residency straight out of med school and even more wild that CRNA's exist.
Hec yeah! That’s why Australia anesthesia is so famous. In the US we have a saying “Australia. The best at koalas, kangaroos, and anesthesia” hope to visit some day!
US ppl are dumb and the system wants to get things done with less expense.
And now the CRNAs call themselves anesthesiologists
CRNA's were the very first to specialize in anesthesia in the united states (1800's). MD's came in afterwards........
@@st6887oh please you’re probs not even an anesthesiologist yourself
omg i just found your channel. i just passed my NCLEX and this is my lifetime goal.
Congratulations 🎈🎉🍾🎊 can’t wait to go and take mine
Was it easy
Congrats on passing!
Where you now in your journey? ❤
THANK YOU FOR THIS! I think you have the grasp of COLLABORATIVE medicine. There are clear distinction between Nursing and Medicine BOTH are valuable to the patient but the respect should be there for both professions.
Some CRNA want "more autonomy" but the Anesthesiologist gets sued when the CRNA makes a mistake. I know Anethesiologist who saw a patient where the CRNA introduced themselves as the "anesthetist doctor" causing confusion....Not only is it misleading, but a CRNA/DNP should not be implying their the MD. No wonder theres conflict sometimes
I certainly agree with your second statement. I personally feel that the introduction from the CRNA in your example as “the anesthetist doctor” was inappropriate, and is not only misleading but can absolutely lead to confusion for the patient. As a crna I introduce myself as such, and if I’m working with an anesthesiologist I explain to the patient “your anesthesiologist today will be Dr. _____” again, this is my personal opinion as what’s best and most clear for the patient and team. At the end of the day patient centered care should be the priority, and clearly defining ourselves and our colleagues can prevent a lot of confusion AND conflict which ultimately benefits the patient.
I know an easy fix to this. Anesthesiologists stop lobbying and we make all Crna’s independent in every state. It’s all about money and nothing to do with patient care.
@@kolton1688now that’s something to agree with !!! 💯💯
Oh wow it’s so good to see you here again! It’s been like years lol I almost didn’t recognize you haha. You helped me decide to switch from NP to CRNA
Bro, I totally agree with your take on being proud to be a nurse, being proud to be a CRNA. We all worked hard to get where we are at, but what’s in a name? What’s in a title? Ugh...
As a 3rd year medical student interested in anesthesiology, I truly appreciate your video. Thank you!
Great video, Josiah! Your humble attitude and down to earth disposition set you apart from all of the other TH-cam CRNAs. Your videos inspire hope and make the journey seem achievable. Thank you for your inspiring content! ☮️ 👍🏾 Best of luck!
I've watched so many of these videos over the years and I think this is the best I've seen.
What’s up man, I tried to go to college to be a CRNA after I graduated high school in 08 but it was gonna be too hard because of my cerebral palsy, so now I donate to the CRNA Foundation
There is so so so much more to life than a degree or a profession. THANK YOU for continuing your passion and just being an amazing human being. Making a difference in the world. It’s more than most people ever get to do. So thank you! And I hope you continuously find the happiness and positivity that you deserve!
@@JosiahShoon you welcome! I got a OR tour yesterday, it was awesome!!
I have a brain tumor and suffer epilepsy. I am considering both of them and which one would be better for me. I’m about to graduate with a bachelors in business lmao completely different field.
I'm rooting for you!! I appreciate your cardiac med video..it was gold!! And I'm happy your doing well and I still remember what you taught us
Huge respect! Also just graduated nursing school (associates degree). Trying to figure out what my end goal is
Awesome vid; quick note though before med school, while they can get a bachelor degree in anything, prerequsites must be taken. Meaning even if your degree is in jazz or something you must have taken most upper level biology, chemistry, physics, and statistics before even being eligible to take the MCAT. Totally agree with everything you said, I've never worked with a CRNA who wasn't amazing, extremely competent, and a pleasure to work with. When the anesthesiologist isn't in one of the four rooms, they are usually in the command center with all four rooms pulled up monitoring the flowcharts of vitals and meds so they can know where they will need to be, and anticipate things in a context of critical care medicine with regard to patient's comorbidities the surgery and so on. I do think some of the politics at the upper levels is unnecessary, the AANA pushing hard for total independence isn't something I totally agree with because while a lot of bread and butter cases are fine without a MD ever being near the patient, things, as I'm sure you've seen, can go south very fast and a physician with all the medical training coming into back up the CRNA wit the full spectrum of physician knowledge and training leads to best outcomes. I also don't like to ever see a CRNA disparaged as "just a nurse anesthetist" because I think most people don't understand just how rigorous CRNA school is. CRNA schools have really maintained excellent quality control of its graduates and programs, esp compared to so many online NP degree mills. When you see someone with a "CRNA" on their badge you can rely on their skillset and knowledge regardless of where they went to school because the degree itself rightly carries the weight and prestige it deserves. Generally feel the same about PAs as well, very good quality control always producing excellent graduates regardless of individual program.
Wow. Thank you for a really well thought out and informative post. You’re absolutely right, I was hoping to explain to those pursuing medical school they don’t have to major in the usual chemistry/bio, but they do require the courses you listed and the MCAT. I believe your detail can be very beneficial to those pursuing medical school to become an anesthesiologist. Thank you. I also appreciate and relate to your sentiment on a healthy and mutually inclusive anesthesia care team. The politics in anesthesia should not have crna vs anesthesiologist but instead a cohesive unit with us all working toward advancing the profession as a whole. I can’t overstate my respect and appreciation for anesthesiologists and the vast amount of knowledge, experience and specialty they bring to each case. I’m hopeful for a new progressive generation of professionals within anesthesia that simply advance the profession as a whole, work together, show an understanding and appreciation for the roles we all have (not just in anesthesia, but from skilled surgeon to the incredible janitorial staff within our hospitals) and provide the best care for the patients having some of their scariest and worst days. So, thank you again for an informative and positive post. Best of luck throughout your career.
LONG POST (feel free to skip):
My one big critique is that you don’t do full justice to the difference in training. Calling in the physician anesthesiologist is NOT just for another set of eyes or another mind like you’re implying. A physician’s training is far deeper in terms of pathology, physiology, pharmacology, treatment, etc. than a CRNA’s. In essence, CRNAs can do a lot of the same bread-and-butter work just as well as physicians (speaking as a whole on average), but they are not trained or equipped to deal with more complicated cases or comprehensive perioperative care to the level of a physician. That’s NOT a knock on CRNAs at all but rather a natural consequence of the difference in depth of training.
That said, I think anesthesia professionals from both sides are often so much more pleasant and fun to work with than surgeons or experienced scrub techs for example (who not always but very often have egos in my experience), which is SO important within the context of a care team model.
Overall great video comparing career paths. Also a great positive attitude avoiding the contentious mindset of current debating! Best wishes with your training/work!
I love and appreciate this comment. I did not mean to downplay the strenuous path to becoming an anesthesiologist and the knowledge and skills developed along the way. I think anesthesia as a whole should come together and find ways to constantly advance and grow within our profession to make it as safe, comfortable and positive for the patients. Thanks for this comment!
Crna’s do extensive pharmacology
bur really though, how much deeper can they actually be going into these trainings? To go through RN, BSN, Masters and then 1 year in ICU experience before finally doing 3 years med school for CRNA is A LOT of training that Anesthesiologists never go through... at the very least it seems to me they are equal. Why not?
Hi. I'm a Hospitalist PA in Washington, D.C. This is a great comparison! I've interviewed CRNAs. We have an OR in our small LTAC hospital. The surgeons only use CRNAs as far as I know. There's never been any issues with the CRNAs. They're GREAT! BTW, we PAs are having the same 😒 "Doctor" issue (Doctor of PA😆) by some who are pushing for it!😡 I think the "team" understanding, creates a good dynamic.
Thant you and your team for what you have done with helping people thru Covid.
very refreshing demeanor
Keep it pushing brother! I’m working on my pre reqs for nursing and can’t wait to put my work in with bedside nursing in the icu after nursing school and then go into crna school!
We all are worker bees at the end of the day. You are a good soul homie.....even the highest paid docs and executives are worker bees because they have to be present to bring in the revenue....people like business owners and investors that don’t have to be present everyday and their money makes money for itself are the real giants. So all that title stuff is just egoes. You a good homie because you want to change the world with love and curing the sick.
Really appreciated this video. I love that you've emphasized that it's a team effort that we should all be working towards.
I'm currently working on an LVN license with hopes of being a CRNA in the future. I was wondering if you knew of anyone who had come in with a BSN that went to a DNAP program or if they were required to get their MSN first. There's so much info out there that it can get a little confusing when looking at the fine details...
I definitely understand that. Sometimes there’s an information overload and it can get confusing. So the way it works is: BSN -> ICU RN -> CRNA school
MOST CRNA schools are doctorate levels now, but some are still masters. Regardless of which one you get int they’ll get you through the schooling and you’ll be able to become a CRNA. No need to worry about getting a masters first. Hope that helps!
As a retired CRNA I can describe the tension between an anesthesiologist and a CRNA. Turf battle!
Hello sr my name is Arshed
Im nurse from iraq I studied for two years and I have bachelor in nursing two years wich equivalent for three years study outside iraq now im in Turkey refugee ..
So in case I came to Canada would you advice me to become CRNA
My age is 34 years old single
When I were in the hospital I saw the anaesthesia assistant and how they work I loves that carrier so would you advice me to join it ?
Now I don't have money .
Thank you
@@arshed2905 I don't think Canada has CRNAs.
Very good
I’m a doc Anest and appreciate your take
Thank you! I really appreciate it and thanks for all you do!
A good anesthesiologist will be a thoughtful risk mitigator adjusting the anesthetic plan based on the patent's comorbidities and the specifics of the surgical case. This is in addition* to being helpful with any challenging procedures and any intraop emergencies.
i know a lot of nurses going into crna school
Shouldn’t the comparison between CRNA and CAA since they both need a bachelorette degree and 2 years master?
@@ricardooconnor2362 great question! When I made this video I had never heard of CAA’s. I don’t do TH-cam much anymore, but I’d explain CRNA’s do bachelors, 2+ years ICU nursing, 3-5 years for a DNP-NA (I think there may be some masters programs left but most have been phased out). CAA’s don’t work in all states, but they’re certainly expanding! I’d have to learn more about CAA’s to comment on their education process but it sounds like you know so I’ll trust that. But yes they’re also an option for those considering anesthesia! All exciting, all parts of an awesome team in healthcare!
Thank you for the video!! I currently work in the dental field but recently sparked an interest in becoming a CRNA or Anesthesiologist! I haven’t decided yet 🥴
Me too
Hi, I believe it is Dr. Josiah now😂, I have an undergraduate degree so I have been thinking about taking the pre-requisite courses online and then going for one year accelerated nursing school. My plan is to be a CRNA. As you said, ICU experience is a must so how competitive is it to land an ICU job nowadays especially in California?
Hi! I got my doctorate but I’m just Josiah forever and always 😁 to answer your question it truly depends on the hospital, but there’s no reason you couldn’t get an ICU job in California! Cast a wide net by applying to different hospital ICU’s. Best of luck in your journey!
Aloha man. You actually making a excellent encouragement point for CRNA. Congratulations that your hanging in there. You are humble and you make an excellent point in becoming a CRNA. I have a MSN/ED, BSN. I’m looking to go to Law school however, I and obtaining a clinical post MSN in nursing the adult/Gerontology NP. However, CRNA school is another idea. I have the requisite education except Chemistry. I been in critical care nursing including trauma level two only. I also have several years in acute Hemodialysis. If you would share the school your attending and what prerequisites did you have to take and your GPA. For my RN to BSN my GPA is 3.7 and my MSN 3.67. Mahalo bro.
This right here just don’t call me late for dinner and make sure that check is in the mail 😊😁
I feel like there’s always going to be tension between people in nursing professions and medical professions. It’s unfortunate. We are all needed; we all have our own respected roles. And ultimately we’re all on the same team, focused on our patients.
L Reed very well said.
It’s human nature.....shoo at the pizza shop...the pizza makers be jealous of the drivers...no matter what you will always get salty people from that salty ass ocean. The only thing you can do is just love the world. And this homie is passionate and will change the world
there's tension because CRNAs think theyre as good as a physician. If that problem gets fixed, there will be less tension or even none
@@mike112693 and why is your assumption that they are not as good?
@@brandondavidson6569 because they don’t have the extensive training & medical knowledge.
I really wish you would come back and let us know how you're doing!
Kudos to you bro. I can never ever do crna. I'm content with just being a floor nurse lol
Justin T. No such thing as “just being a floor nurse” bro. Floor nurses will ALWAYS have some of my deepest respect as professionals who provide direct care to extremely sick people. Through highly stressful situations, despite incredibly hard days, gaining a deep level of understanding and being the most trusted profession in the world multiple years in a row? What you’re doing is great and I’ll always feel that way.
This guy gets it. Well explained
Thank you! Really appreciate it
Can we get an update video on how you like your responsibilities as a CRNA? How many hours you work? Etc…please
MDs ib Anesthesiology have 3 times more clinical hours compared to CRNAs after finishing the residency. Plus MDs work with really complex and complicated cases like cardiothorathic cases, or complex head traumas, organ transplantation whereas CRNAs usully take easier cases called bread and butter. Most of times CRNAs are not even working in full scope of their practice like not doing regional blocks at all. CRNAs are still nurses and considered to take the bulk or a big chunk of easier cases compared to MDs.
Thanks for the reply John John. I made this video with every attempt to provide transparent information without bias. There is so much ego in anesthesia from many anesthesiologists and CRNA’s alike, and I believe that ego causes confusion for people on the outside looking in. Your comment clearly comes from your personal experience, and it may be very true for where you work and other institutions. But it’s not true for all. I’ve been in hospitals where CRNA’s make up “the heart team” and work in complex cardiac cases all the time, where CRNA’s do the complex neuro cases and no case is off limits. In the further attempt of full transparency this is not the case for every hospital and there are many where your comment certainly applies. Where CRNA’s USUALLY do the “bread and butter” cases. I’d also like to say that anything unpracticed becomes challenging. I’ve seen people who routinely do complex cases, struggle with colonoscopies, but they swim through a liver transplant whereas I, and many others would fumble around more than a peewee football player. Also, MD’s and DO’s certainly perform the majority of regional blocks that aren’t the traditional spinal/epidural. Although I’ve been in hospitals where CRNA’s were on the block team, I’d certainly say that’s the exception rather than the rule. The clinical hours is something widely debated when CRNA’s discuss their educations anesthesia time compared to residents anesthesia time, then compared their time as a critical care nurse compared to residents time in medical school and the clinical time which was not anesthesia based. This argument? I’m not interested in. Because I’m not into what my grandmother calls “hotdog swinging contests.” Residency is an absolutely bear and in my opinion residents deserve more respect than they get. I’ll also say working as an ICU nurse was one of the wildest work and educational experiences of my life. Hand cranking ECMO? Doubt I’ll ever do that again. To say that CRNA’s are nurses is not wrong, but it’s misleading. I have my doctorate through nursing. Do I introduce myself to patients as doctor? No because I believe that’s also misleading. I am SO proud of being a nurse, it was one of the most challenging and gratifying jobs I’ve ever had, but CRNA’s are Nurse Anesthetists. I believe anesthesiologists and CRNA’s SHOULD BE on the same team. This made up “turf war” some choose to be in and invent does nothing to benefit patients. What I want to finally drive home is that I have the utmost respect for anesthesiologists. I do not believe CRNA’s are the same as anesthesiologists or anesthesiologists are the same as CRNA’s. I believe we are on the same team. Anesthesiologists are those who went through med school and residency to become physicians, CRNA’s are those who went through nursing school, critical care nursing and CRNA school to become CRNA’s. We’re different paths, who have some overlap in our jobs, on the same team but still different in our careers. I believe the more we work together as a team, lose the ego that plagues all aspects of healthcare, the better we can take care of the people who give us a reason to come into work. Thanks again for your comment. Hope you have a great day.
@@Buchavka perhaps 2 was the prior standard, mine was 3, and so are many others. But like I said I’m not trying to have a hotdog swinging contest. I have no issue saying my doctorate is not the MD or DO that anesthesiologists obtained. I’m no physician, I don’t go by doctor, but I’m very proud to be the crna I am and have traveled the path that I went. I’m surprised though you don’t know our education was 3, considering you’ve commented as though you know me and work with me, but never mention who you actually are.
@@JosiahShoon Isnt the first year of CRNA is just didactic/theory with no clinical practice? When Iw as referring to 2 years I meant the actual years where a CRNA starts doing things practically not just in a class room. I do not know you and do not work with you. As I said I am just a random user who found your nursing channel and just googled you in the internet.
@@Buchavka in your defense some programs are like that, others are not. Mine was not. It was one that is integrated, which means we entered into the OR year one and did three years. But this is honestly insignificant because it’s one of the lame divisive debates I don’t want to add fuel to for either side. Where we start comparing experience and arguing over our time. The truth of it is even if I had 8 years in the OR I still would not be a physician. My degree still would not be MD or DO, and I’m so perfectly fine with that, because I’m a crna, whose doctorate is through nursing. I love my job and do my best at it to provide for the patients we all care about. I very much support anesthesiologists and respect their role within the anesthesia and surgical team. This video was not at all meant to take from that, but an attempt at a very unbiased and honest comparison of two paths within anesthesia for those who are considering them. And ok let’s say you’re a random stranger, what’s odd to me is the channel with thousands of followers created in 2007 but no videos, why you deleted the Ivan larose/ Vanya and Russian info, why one of your locations pinged in California, how you type as though English is your second language. It’s just odd that you delete that info and only used this channel to comment to me you know? Maybe you were looking for a fight where there wasn’t one, but if we do work together I’ll treat you just the same. However if you ever want to talk without this odd anonymity I’m available. Even if it’s over a video chat etc. Hope you have a good day “John John” take care.
@@JosiahShoon And therein lies the problem. CRNAs need to understand that your profession is only as good as its worst programs. No one cares that you received all this amazing training. What really matters is that others in your profession did not, which makes them a liability.
The difference between anesthesiologists and CRNAs is not just "time and money". This is unfortunately oversimplified. Anesthesiologists are physicians and have a tremendous amount more training in anesthesia as well as broad training in medicine. The practice of anesthesiology is the practice of medicine and is therefore practiced by physicians. CRNAs are midlevel providers like NPs; they are all considered advanced practice registered nurses (APRNs). CRNAs do not have the requisite background medical knowledge or training to be considered medical experts in anesthesiology, irrespective of which level of nursing degree they achieve (masters or DNP).
As for performing procedural tasks, yes this can be performed by anyone trained in doing such tasks. Such tasks are routinely carried out by Anesthesiologists, surgeons, residents in both fields as well as emergency medicine, and also by APRNS (critical care NPs, CRNAs) as well as anesthesia assistants. Anesthesiologists are responsible for the overall medical management of these patients in the perioperative period which may also include performing procedures.
In addition, as this video mentions, anesthesiologists are also trained in critical care medicine and interventional chronic pain. Many chose to pursue fellowships in these fields or others, and work as palliative care physicians, sleep medicine physicians , to name a few.
To summarize very briefly: Anesthesiology is the practice of medicine and is practiced by physicians. CRNAs practice nurse anesthesia the same way mid levels (NPs, PAs) contribute to other fields of medicine to extend medical services to many patients who cannot and perhaps do not need to be directly seen and assessed by a physician. That is to say they should be under the supervision of an anesthesiologist. If they are not supervised, they are practicing medicine independently, which they are not educated or trained to do and are therefore practicing outside of their scope as advanced practice nurses.
You need to do some research because 99% of what you said is 100% FALSE depending on the practice location. A PGY1 anesthesia resident in their first weeks/months is like a nursing student, they both never treated real live humans before and they are woefully unequipped yet teaching hospitals will throw that babydoc onto trauma/ICU coverage while the babynurse isn't even taking patients or treating observation patients independently for 2-3 months of real world. The "physician" (resident ) just went from medical student to HMFIC of critical care patients and they have no idea WTF they are doing for months (years with some), the CRNA has put in 3-5 (usually 7-10) years of direct patient care with a minimum of 3-5 in critical care before even applying to CRNA programs. This means that a CRNA has 4 years of undergrad, 3-5+ years in life HANDS ON DIRECT PATIENT CARE experience, THEN 4 years of graduate education so a minimum of 10-14 years of school/experience ... that medical student with an undergrad degree in geology gets 4 yrs of didactic and then BLAMO they are PGY1's with no clue weather to shit their pants or break down crying.. or both (I've seen each and both simultaneously).
There's a reason that attrition rates for CRNA programs are 0%-1% while anesthesia programs wash out an AVERAGE of 27+% ... with some as high as 30%+ and that's obnoxious, this means the teaching program for physicians isn't adequately preparing them for real world when lives are on the line, the CRNA programs have a vested interest in graduating the full class of 15-30 providers who must all then pass boards and licensing before practicing... a MD can fail boards and continue to practice for 50+ years without anyone or anything stopping them and only an average of 70% of anesthesiaologist are actually board certified!
Depending on practice location a Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist, or CRNA, is permitted to provide a level of care that would otherwise require a physician just across state lines, such as prescribing controlled medications, designing plans of pain-management care and even directly billing the insurance and Medicaid/ Medicare system without going through a physician.
FYI - nurses were the first to deliver surgical anesthesia, during the Civil War, and currently perform an estimated two-thirds of all anesthesia procedures.
mic drop...
@@mattgayda2840 Please, anyone reading this disregard this guy. I don't know what type of provider he is; frankly I hope for the sake of healthcare he is not. Please provide a resources for your stats. I do not believe a single one of them. (ie. 70% of anesthesiologists board certified!! what planet? Other physicians who fail board examinations practicing independently for 50+ years!! Not a chance. Anesthesiology residency program attrition rates... I personally know that is woefully inaccurate). Thank-you for adding to the sea of completely false statistics on the internet.
I have nothing but respect for the profession of nursing, and the compassionate people who dedicated themselves to its practice. The educational background of physicians and nurses is very different. you're comparison of medical and nursing education shows your ignorance. You have clearly never been an intern. You cannot appreciate the struggle, the learning curve. The amount of times we rely on seasoned nurses and our own senior residents and attendings would astound you i'm sure. Residency is postgraduate medical education, for your information. Residents work 80 hour weeks and studying when they are not working to make sure the decisions they eventually make independently are as informed as possible, which brings me to my next point.
The way you try to humiliate a new physician, a physician still in training is pathetic. Making light of someone's breakdown is about as low as you can get in this field. You don't understand the pressure of having to make decisions in a lonely ward in the middle of the night on limited information. You have never been through the rigors of training to look after patients independently. If you had you would never say the things you did in your post.
Finally, I will no longer get involved with internet trolls. It's a shame we cannot have a civilized discussion.
"Mic drop"....get a grip. You're embarrassing yourself. Whatever provider group you belong to, please remember they are painted with the same brush.
@@alexhall9854 I have to say I agree with a fair amount of your statement here. I think the stats are likely way off. A couple of points, however, regarding your IP can be addressed. First of all, the practice of anesthesiology isn't only the practice of medicine. That is simply an ASA talking point. They have arbitrarily developed that viewpoint because it benefits organized medicine. Nurses were the first historical anesthesia providers for organized healthcare ( references are plentiful, so I'm not citing anything). The term anesthesiology simply means the study of anesthesia. Both physicians and nurses do it. Nobody can own it.
No one can argue that physicians have greater education over a broader medical base. To do so is simply wrong. But this does not discount the ability for nurses to ALSO learn as residents do from experts across many fields, and therefore are as capable in the field of anesthesia as physicians. Vast resources support the safety of CRNAs providing anesthesia without supervision or direction and there is absolutely zero evidence to support the notion that being a physician improves anesthesia care. It may not seem logical - but it's simply what the data shows. It doesn't care about anyone's feelings.
Regarding board certification, the previous poster is wrong about the numbers. However, there is a key difference - 100% of CRNAs are required to be board certified. And 100% must recertify every 2 years by CME and every 8 years by exam. They cannot, in any context, provide anesthesia care otherwise. This is not true of physicians. Physicians can legally provide basically whatever care they desire (provided they have facility privileges) without any type of board certification. All that is required is to graduate from med school and be licensed as an MD or DO. I have worked with many physicians providing anesthesia who either failed their boards or never took them. They had provided anesthesia for years. I think they were great providers - but the technical point is that physicians are a little loose in this area and it would probably behoove organized medicine to clean up some of these finer points. I actually worked with a physician who had failed her boards so many times that she was no longer eligible to take them, yet she provided anesthesia care every day. She was a terrible provider. She was the Anesthesia Director at that hospital. This would NEVR fly for a CRNA, but, alas, we are a doctor-centric culture.
My point here is not to disparage physician anesthesia providers, because I admire many of the physician anesthesia providers I have worked with in my 25 years as a CRNA. As with any type of provider, some are very good and others are not very good (or just plain bad). One of the big differences is that if a CRNA is a bad provider, they seldom are allowed to keep providing care. Physicians, on the other hand, because they are physicians, almost never get called out for being a bad provider until someone gets hurt.
@@mattgayda2840 are you serious dude?Why do you think anesthesiologists make so much more than CRNAs.Its because they are experts in anesthesia.Why do u think they have longer and more difficult training?Why do they have much larget debt?Is it because they like school more and want to waste part of their life studying?I dont think so
@@davidshepherd7940 you have to accept the difference in training of a CRNA and a doctor.The experience CRNAs must have to become one doesnt even compare to medical school and residency where residents work 80hrs a week for minimal wage.If you cant accept it then you are simply delusional
Do you see a major difference in work life balance between crna and anesthesiologist?
There is another difference. Anesthesiologists are always responsible for anything that might happen, even if it was the CRNA's fault.
This is not an accurate statement. CRNAs are 100% responsible for the care they provide. I could see the anesthesiologist being more accountable in a medically directed anesthesia care model because they are typically a 4:1 ratio. If the MDA wants to direct care, they should take part in the responsibility. However, people should know that CRNAs practice independently in many different care settings and practice with full autonomy and responsibility. The anesthesia care model determines how much shared responsibility there is for the patient. Medical direction, medical supervision, or if the CRNA is an independent contractor working completely solo, such as in a rural area.
@@ivanstiger2399
Good explanation ❤ I’m more sure that this is what I want ❤
I’m confused on how the hourly salary for a CRNA would work, for example if there is a day where there is only 1 surgery taking place and it takes 2 hours to complete. Do the CRNA’s get payed for only those two hours throughout the whole day? And what do CRNA’s usually do if there is a day where there is no surgery or anesthesia required?
interesting question. did you find out?
7:50 is why anesthesiologists are worth what they're paid. You don't become an MD to be good at placing LMAs or doing A lines. It's the depth of knowledge with what you do when stuff doesn't go well that fellowship and residency training provides. Not knocking CRNAs, but that's what the difference is.
Anesthesiologists are ABSOLUTELY worth what they’re paid for, and I feel the same for CRNA’s. That’s why there’s a pay gap that I’m also perfectly ok with. MD’s and DO’s on a care team have multiple rooms they’re running between and an emergency can happen in any of them. Residency, fellowship, a multitude of things are worthy of respecting anesthesiologists. And that’s coming from a very proud CRNA. With all sincerity thanks for your comment, and thanks for all you do.
Pretty sure I’ve corrected many mds on when “stuff doesn’t go well”. I understand why mds should get paid more because schooling costs more. But for anesthesiologists to make 2 -3x more, that’s messed up.
@@kolton1688 Well, they certainly have at least 2x to 3x the training.
@@JohnDoe-pb5ks I don’t see it. I have had better training and I have studied harder because I know I can run circles around any anesthesiologist you throw at me.
@@kolton1688 That's some serious copium you're high on.
Hey man. I know im 3 years late but than you for making this video. I just started my CNA class today. I'll be frank, I want to be a CRNA for the money, but also because I do just genuinely enjoy helping people. Do you have any tips to get through the RN program and eventually the CRNA program
Hey man! Appreciate the frankness and totally understand wanting a career for the money! Paying rent is why we work. lol BUT I also want to say it costs a lot to get the degree, and no amount of money is worth not loving what you do so I hope you love it AND it pays off well for you! Tips are simple: show up every day, be enthusiastic and the best I can give is have a good sense of humor and thick skin. Those two things are what got me through a lot! Best of luck to you! And by the way being a CNA first will give you a huge advantage over people in the RN program who were not!
Hi, I believe it is Dr. Josiah now😂, I have an undergraduate degree so I have been thinking about taking the pre-requisite courses online and then going for one year accelerated nursing school. My plan is to be a CRNA. As you said, ICU experience is a must so how competitive is it to land an ICU job nowadays especially in California?
Wow I’ve been a subscriber since your icu days. So happy for you man.. keep up the good work
James Peek thank you James! Once an ICU Nurse always an ICU Nurse even when I graduate and stop working as an ICU Nurse, that job will always have a place in my heart and anyone who does it has respect from me.
Sweet video you give me hope!
Hello from The Johns Hopkins Hospital!!!
Didn’t the Nurses Association recently require that CRNA to obtain their Doctorate starting in a few years in order to practice? I think current CRNA will be grandfathered but the educational bar has been risen.
It's not really grandfathered in. But you won't lose your current job if you don't have a doctorate. It just means that now entry level Nurse Anesthetists will all be doctorate trained. The schools and association still want you to go back to school to get your doctorate, but there are pros and cons to do that
Comes down to the volume of training ..an Anaesthesiologist is far more deeply and broadly trained. As "the big brain in charge", if a CRNA screws up, the MD also gets called to the carpet..and court.
This is not true. CRNAs can work independently is many states and that is growing every year. If the CRNA is working independently, there is no one to call to court except the CRNA. Same with any other profession.
@@Cottntale321 Yes. they may work independently but they’re still supervised under a doctor. You people know nothing
@@strongbodystrongmiind This is not true. Do you understand what working independently means?
@@Cottntale321 I absolutely do.
@@strongbodystrongmiind Great! So, if a CRNA is working independently, it doesn’t make sense if a MD is still supervising them.
Hey
Surprised by your content...
You're an inspiration!
#Proud to be a Nurse
Thanks so much Raja! It means a lot. I don’t really post on TH-cam much anymore but It makes my day to read comments like this. Best career on earth! Glad to have you with us!
Are you there on Instagram
Congratulations on the videos.
This is the best explanation of the differences I have heard. Thank you
Dude THANK YOU. I’ve felt that there’s so much bias in many explanations and just wanted to give the information as true and respectful as I could. This means so much thank you!
Im so tied! After bsn should i go for CRNA or anesthesiologist physician? Are the years worth it?
did you end up picking? im confused too :(
Go to med school this whole thing nurses providing anesthesia is only in us nowhere else in the world is at least horrifying.
This is like asking whats the difference between a nurse and a physician..
Its not just money and time.
I feel I gave a really unbiased opinion and had a respectful tone toward both professions while explaining how we work together. I didn’t intend to hurt anyone’s ego. Some are more fragile than others. The interesting debate is the MD vs DO debate. Some MD’s feel DO is a joke and has less clout than MD, while some DO programs refer to DO as the only “complete physician” those chats get pretty wild. With DO’s getting into school easier but still being called physicians, personally idc about the initials. If a provider is great they’re great, and if they’re not they’re not. I’ve never been one to care about titles, but your comment is a joke. I explained the course of action necessary to become a CRNA. You know it’s a doctorate level degree, you know it takes 9 years to obtain if not more depending on the amount of time spent working in critical care. I gave one simple quote and expanded upon that and felt I did it with absolute positive intent. People who go through the medical school route become physicians, people who go through crna route become CRNA’s. I think it’s possible for us all to enjoy our professions and get along without having some need to downplay or attack the other. Thanks for watching.
@@JosiahShoon 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@@JosiahShoon MD = DO. They take the same bords as us. Only the old guard of physicians still think this way. We viewed them as a joke initially until they raised their education standards to match ours. DO’s do still struggle to get into the most competitive specialties like derm or CT surg.
@@JosiahShoon Never heard any debate about MD versus DO. Though the gpa and MCAT might be slightly lower to get into medical program in DO schools, the level of education and material covered is same once you get in, in addition to the osteopathic manipulation for DOs. We do have our own boards but many DO students take STEP1 and 2 which allopathic medical students take. And residencies are merged so at the end of the day, the training and exams are similar if not same for some applicants. Comparing time is irrelevant and too simplistic as other medical pathways and careers do not cover the exact same material or the depth or variety or is structured in the medicine model of care. You often hear midlevels say they do rotations, but to me that is an incorrect comparison. Even for the two years of clinicals, each rotation whether internal medicine or surgery, requires students to know the medicine and application in-and-out for better patient care and also work intern hours at times. But alas, clinical experience is not enough, as we have shelf exams administered by the national board for each rotation and a second board exams, which test critical thinking and problems solving with mostly 3rd order questions. My point is time is an irrelevant comparison because what you do and learn in that time matters more. But I do understand not every journey has to be the same and each has its challenges and nuances that we do not understand about the other. I do respect other career paths and doing what we do for patients.
-Speaking as a current 4th year about to start residency with MDs and DOs.
@@burneymaha92 I’m glad to hear you haven’t run into that debate and as an earlier comment mentioned I’m hopeful it is only an old school thought process some physicians (soon to retire) feel necessary to discuss or even compare. My point is people love to compare labels and titles. Even when it’s unnecessary. When a close friend of mine was applying to medical school the MD vs DO debate was enough for them to decide on a different school in order to obtain their MD not their DO. As I mentioned, some of the best physicians I’ve worked with are DO, some of the best I’ve worked with are MD. I agree there shouldn’t be debate between those titles. There also shouldn’t be debate or comparison between physician and CRNA’s, we are two different careers within anesthesia. I have no desire to be a physician, to be labeled as a physician, and people who go to school to be physicians have no desire to be labeled as CRNA’s. My main point and purpose of this video was to help people who are currently starting their journey towards a career and help them gain information on the differences and similarities. I’m hopeful that the new generations of providers act as you and some of the comments within this video. A team of people focused on providing the highest quality of care for our patients. That’s been the majority of my experience these past three years in anesthesia, and I’m hopeful to foster and continue building that experience along with the countless providers both physician and CRNA, focused on accomplishing the same.
As far as the level of care received and the outcomes of pts there is no difference. Multiple studies have shown that.
I'm in nursing school right now, but looking at various specialties. Are there specific jobs or certifications you should get before going into CRNA? Like do you need ER/ICU experience or would OR experience work? Just wanting to know my options.
do well in science courses
work in the ICU for 1.5 years
get ur CCRN certificate
take the GRE (if ya want)
hello @Josiah Shoon ,,,, I am currently a nursing student in Kenya pursuing my bachelor's degree in nursing and my question is can I apply for a CRNA program as soon as I graduate?? and if I can which university would you recommend for instance the one you studied in,
Hi! Most schools in the US require atleast 1 year experience of working as a nurse. Do research on the university you choose, keeping in mind costs, program length, program type, etc. If you’re an international student, make sure the university you are looking into accept international students. Number 1 tip for international students is do tons of research
Okay okay,,,thanks for the tip ,,,will do a lot of research💯👍
CRNA's are fundamentally a nurse trained form the narrower perspective of a nurse 1st and foremost with a 4 year focus in anesthesia. Nursing pre req courses are not in the same league as pre med prereq courses. Medical school spend 4 years on all organ systems and various hospital rotations. CRNA aren't some unique special bunch that has found a way to learn what medical student learns in less time with less training. An MD is trained from a wideeee ocean perspective of what medicine is and learns to think as an internist 1st and foremost by completing an intern year of various rotations with IM being the longest followed by surgery. Both have a role and are critical to Anesthesia in the U.S. but only 1 is the expert in their field. Lobbying politicians to full practice doesn't bring them to the same education level as an MD. CRNA has no chance passing an ABA board exam.
CRNAs will be fine with 99% of cases and are cost efficient. However, I would rather have an MD covering my surgery just in case. I am not taking any risks
I would say it;s a myth and disservice to say that CRNA found a way to learn what medical students learn but in less time. It's not the same, coming from someone who knows a CRNA who transferred to medical school. The amount, type, and depth of material is much much more. That being said, I appreciate the role and help of other medical professionals and you guys are so important and needed.
but more time doesn't always equal better care or necessarily more competency. There are plenty of horrible doctors and physicians.
If you want to become an Anaesthesiologist in the future, what extra coueses do you need to do?
Medicine school
You would have to basically start over and go through another 8 years of school and training to do what you were already doing.
@@dboatright2497 CRNA is not the same as an anesthesiologist or is the depth and extent of care.
Thank you!
Midlevels play a key role but that difference of time an money can not and should not be over looked. However, saying that a midlevel can provide the same care as an anesthesiologist is wrong. The abilities of an BC/BE Anesthesiologist along with their physiological understanding FAR surpass the abilities of a nurse anesthesiologist. They work together but you want the anesthesiologist for the 20% that does not go as planned or complex. The 200-250K a CRNA makes is an incredible salary for a midlevel and they fill a key role. In my view the difference is technician vs physician. Lastly the term "Doctor" should be reserved solely for physicians in a clinical setting.
This was extremely well put, logical and sincere. I agree with so much of it. I’d also like to say that there are nurse anesthetists who have incredible time and experience in anesthesia who have very high level skills, knowledge and wisdom, this doesn’t make them an anesthesiologist, but I believe it deserves a mutual respect (which you clearly have). Regardless of time, experience, skill etc CRNA’s are CRNA’s anesthesiologists are anesthesiologists. I believe pay and title should reflect as much, and we all know when we enter into the work environment that we have to earn or lose respect based on our work. I also agree that I don’t call myself doctor, but I do address and introduce my physician colleagues as doctor. Anyways seriously appreciate your comment hope you have a great day.
Is the working hours also less and also more flexible?
I actually need the answer of this question because I wanna to go Nursing school
Ferrari Vs Nissan. what's the difference?
One costs a lot more while they both get you to the same place? But idk what that has to do with my video.
Hey are you still doing the same thing? I'm doing an LVN right now and I just found out about crna
What about AA ?
Idk if you’re gonna see this comment, but I’m looking to be a crna in the future. Does crna school require calculus as a pre req?
Is there anyway to do crna school but also work? I don’t wanna have zero income while going to school lol
Umm, CRNA is not a physician, anesthesiologist is a physician.. big difference, much more than just time and money. The depth of knowledge of a physician is far greater than that of a CRNA.
Thanks Betty. I couldn’t agree more. CRNA is not a physician, and I explained they are two separate paths. Medical school, residency in the physician route, ICU nursing, CRNA school, CRNA route. Thought I was super clear but to be certain: CRNA’s, Nurse practitioners, PA’s, nurses, respiratory therapists, dentists, podiatrists, optometrists, physical therapists, speech pathologists, bartenders and pizza delivery drivers are not physicians.
Lol Yes Betty. I'm pretty sure he said that
What is a difference between a physician and CRNA. Be specific.
@@balla2828 A physician goes to pre med, then four years of medical school and in addition they do another 3 years of residency specifically for anesthesia. A CRNA is an RN with a four year nursing degree and they go to school for another 3 years to become a nurse anesthetist.
@@bettysmith4527 An RN also goes through “pre-RN”, then goes to RN school and then must get a BSN, MSN and THEN goes to CRNA school. How many more years is a physician actually spending?
The difference between nurse and doctor starts in elementary school bro. Doctors have the highest GPa and SAT scores compared to most any profession. The candidates who get into medical school are like standard deviations higher than those in nursing school. It’s not just “time and money”. The training is vastly different. When nurses say there’s no difference, they just can’t comprehend the difference.
This is actually not true, it is a pathway you choose both jobs are challenging but it is usually just a shift in responsibility and sometimes culture, like how much school you want to go to.
@@soyes2631 without the grades, You can’t “choose” to go to medical school and be a doctor. It’s not a choice. Every physician would have gotten into nursing school, so yes for them it may be a choice. Very few nurses have the undergrad cred to choose to go to medical school. This is the truth.
What about someone who is “smart” enough to be a doctor but decides to become a CRNA?
@@walterclements2877 straight facts, going to Medical school doesn't correlate to you being smart. I know a lot of dumb doctors. I was pursuing the med school route, maintained a 4.0 GPa throughout my educational career and only need to take two more quarters at UCLA to receive my BS. I changed to CRNA due to time and money of med school.
@@drk8912 yes yes I’ve here many speak of the debt and income ratio of CRNAs and physicians.
Hi! I really dig your videos and vibe. How are you doing? Hope you are well.
good day Sir, can a CRNA become an anesthesiologist?
If I was a CRNA, I wouldn’t want full autonomy. Would that not defeat the purpose of being a nurse? Some of us can’t handle the full responsibility. Let’s be real. Not to say I would do my best, obviously. But you know what I mean.
You seem like a wonderful and uplifting person. I would love to get to know you better❤. I'm in my last year of nursing school and plan on becoming a CRNA in the future
Good video
Hello from a first year Drexel SRNA!
Hello! Congrats and best of luck on this crazy journey!
Josiah Shoon thanks man! Is it normal to feel like an idiot during clinicals? I feel like I can’t eve stand properly without gaining some constructive criticism. Lol
10000% normal. It of course depends on your preceptor (some are absolutely amazing and truly love building students up into CRNA’s while some others thrive off making students feel small) and the clinical site culture (some site cultures are built upon teaching students and remembering that they were once students as well, whereas other site cultures are built upon students being a burden with expectations to do everything perfectly) you will learn or already know which sites and preceptors fit those descriptions, but always remember. You will one day be a CRNA, you were already an ICU Nurse, and take the good from each person and place, leave the bad, and become the person to other you’d want to have had for yourself. Best of luck! It’ll be over before you know it!
Why is an arterial line needed?
How long does it takes to go from CRNA to anaesthesiologist , I need someone with experience please, thanks 🙏
This is a great question Hanin and I want to answer it clearly. These are two totally separate tracks. CRNA is a terminal degree, often doctorate in nursing practice - nurse anesthesia, anesthesiologist is a terminal degree either medical doctor or doctor of osteopathic medicine. People usually go from their bachelors and then decide which route they’re going to take, the CRNA or the physician route. CRNA’s don’t typically go back and start medical school (although I know of one who has) if you were going to do this it would be approximately 10 years to get your CRNA then you would have to go all the way back and start medical school path towards anesthesiologist, what I do know is there are people who get their bachelors in nursing and then go on to medical school to become anesthesiologist. I’ve met a couple of them. I hope this answers your question clearly. Best of luck on whatever path you decide to lead! Both amazing professions filled with incredible people!
What’s the point of calling yourself an anesthetist if you aren’t pushing the anesthesia? I don’t understand why that exists other than for anesthesiologists to make more money
You should do Zoom calls so I can ask you the questions I am still pending answers on 😭😭
Can you work while in the CRNA program?
Almost every crna program is full time, unable to work, MAYBE per diem but that’s often lost too. I know of one crna program that makes it possible to work but it takes about twice as long to complete. Their philosophy is giving opportunity to people who want to become a crna but also need to provide an income for their children, family, etc. Which is I think is awesome. But like I said almost every program is full time.
@@JosiahShoon Thank you for this info! You’re awesome.
@@sandyloosesit my pleasure! Best of luck on anything you decide to do! I sincerely wish you the best!
@JosiahShoon how do you pay for school if you can't work?
Wow! Good explanation!!! You are super cute!
I guess some of them feel if they had to do all this schooling and spend all this money just to get my doctor degree,I’m gonna let be known,.LoL.
Video starts at 1:15
m an RN and from commerce stream
.can i enter in a med.school to be a physician
CRNA work FOR the anesthesiologist
Sir Can bs anesthesia become crna
CRNA vs Anesthesiologist. Very simple to explain. CRNA a training program that thinks 14 years of education can be crammed into 20 month certification vs an anesthesiologist with 14 years of education and training before they’re allowed to play with your life.
I feel I was so respectful and honest in this video and in responses but what a joke that you include undergrad education in your math and call CRNA a “20 month program” 😂 what a clown. Everyone knows CRNA is 4 years undergrad, minimum 2 years ICU nursing, and 3 years of CRNA school. While anesthesiologist is 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school and 4 years residency with the OPTION of residency. Im not into this whole “us vs them” bullshit some CRNA’s and anesthesiologists subscribe to. But if you’re going to lie do it somewhere else.
@@JosiahShoon CRNAs are not trained to the same level as anesthesiologists and that’s the point, otherwise every CRNA would simply pass their MCATs, graduate an accredited medical school, complete residency and fellowships. It’s not a matter of respect or not. Scope creep is a real liability in healthcare.
@@etamlous CRNA’s are not trained as anesthesiologists and anesthesiologists are not trained as CRNA’s that’s an absolute point we can agree on. Anesthesiologists are physicians, the medical doctors in anesthesia either MD or DO. CRNA’s are nurse anesthetists. But calling CRNA’s education “20 months” instead of the actual minimum 9 year path to becoming a CRNA then including undergrad education in your math for anesthesiologist but not CRNA’s (both 4 years) is misleading and laughable. It’s like when CRNA’s say “we have more real life skills because we worked intensive care while anesthesiologists never touch critically ill patients until they graduated med school” which is also a lame ass sentiment I don’t agree with. CRNA’s are CRNA’s, anesthesiologists are anesthesiologists and this video was meant to be informative for people of all walks of life considering anesthesia as a career option.
@@JosiahShoon👏🏾 don’t listen to him. I am working towards my BSN rn. And was thinking about the CRNA path. You inspired me to take it up. So thank you I’ll definitely keep up with your channel.
Skip to 1:20
Did you finish school?
I did! Over a year ago.
@@JosiahShoon That's amazing! Congratulations! Sorry im new to channel and i just found the video very interesting
@@beksl5411 no apology needed. I haven’t made a video in a very long time so I get it. Hope you have a great rest of your day!
I came here for info but damn 🥰🥰🥰😻😻😂😩
Feels like diluted midlevel routes are becoming priotized for our profit hungry healthcare system, rather than actually creating more slots for physicians and quality providers. All due respect to CRNAs but I see no incentive to be a physician, unless you're trying to be a surgeon.
I’m genuinely sorry you feel this way. Because I think this team model should be exactly that. A team, and as a team we should be benefiting each other. In my ideal world CRNA’s would benefit anesthesiologists and visa versa. I certainly don’t want prioritization, and I love working the anesthesiologists that I work with. Hopefully we progress forward where the incentive to join anesthesia increases in all aspects. Thanks for your honesty.
I just think people need to remember that the first anesthesiologists ever were women and nurses 🤷🏻♀️ not MDs
Then, We should also remember that the first surgeons were barbers 💈. What was your point again?
Call me anything but don't call me late for dinner
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You're very handsome 😍
So crna
4yrs undergrad
2yrs icu exp
3yrs crna school
4yrs of residency
Is this correct?
CRNA: 4 years undergrad, 2+ years ICU exp, 3 years CRNA school.
@@JosiahShoon ty for the clarification
Cutie
Nobody should ever push your drugs. That’s your patient. That’s your anesthetic. If someone else wants to push my drugs then you can stay and finish the case.
Honestly... and to each their own, but never understood the "I push my own drugs". As long as an attending doesn't try to belittle me (like I don't know how to dose), micromanage me and they don't push everything in the syringe and walk out with the BP 40/10 then I don't care. I don't anything to prove to anyone. But that's just me.
Anesthesiology Care Team Model
Charge break down per procedure
Anesthesiologist 50% 50% CRNA
50% 50% CRNA
50% 50% CRNA
50% 50% CRNA