Thanks Gorman! I'm just happy that people get something from it. I'm not right 100% of the time, but I'm learning just like everyone else. Thanks for the comment!
Very cool, I just ordered what looks to be that exact unit because I plan to build multiple small systems that I can combine as needed rather than a single large single system. Glad it's worked out well for you.
@@OffGridBasement Yeah, I am thinking that a lot of people have problems because they try to squeeze the maximum out of their electronics at all times.
Interesting concept, i did it the opposite way. I removed a circuit from the panel, i then ran a plug from the inverter to the outlet. (outlet is on the circuit removed at panel) I hooked up a transfer switch to another house power circuit, the switch will then switch to house power at 12. 6 volts and come back at 14.1 volts.
Porky...this is what I want to do, but not sure how specifically to do it. Do you have info (site or video) on how to set it up? Do you use a sub panel? Can you do more than one circuit? Can you do the circuit for the central air?
I did not have much luck with the 1400watt version. May 1200w panels seem to bottle neck down to about 645 watts. So happy with PowMr registered full 1.2 kW of solar today 😄. Unfortunately I have no 36volt battery to test if 1400w grid tie works better with a battery.
@@OffGridBasement Not sure, I need anymore investment in solar now. More electrical than I need. And gas seems way cheaper than solar in terms of water heating for winter. PowMr is off grid. So not using much grid at all.
@@OffGridBasement I just run a couple of extensions. Cooking and heating diminishing savings and return. Plumbing electric wayer heaters could be very expensive so no plans for that.
I have the 1400watt 36volt version too. I have mine hooked up to only 200 watts of solar panels at 36volts. I observed it starts getting really hot at 300watts so my remaining solar panels are connected to my battery backup solar system instead. I think the 1400watt version is overrated... I saw a video of another TH-camr who opened up the 1000w and 1400w versions and it was literally the same.
Thanks..btw, on the specs sheet it says the max wattage should not exceed 650w. On your set-up u got more than 7kw, right? Hows the microinverter holding up?
hello, great video, my question is You should not include the cost of the solar panels that charge your battery? or what ever cost that charge the battery?
I didn't feel it was necessary since the system was already in place. All I did was add the small piece of equipment to an existing setup. You have a good point though. Thanks for the comment.
Toys for watts explained that while this works, because the inverters aren't UL listed if your house burns down and is tied in any way to that inverter you will take a total loss. There are safer inverters on the market. Sungold I think is one that I'm considering. And it allows a generator hookup.
If it were an electrical fire then I would probably have some explaining to do. That is another reason why I'm not trying to work with higher loads. Just supplementing the base load my house uses.
Just to be sure, you're backfeeding the Kill-A-Watt from the grid-tie inverter and it's still able to measure the watts going back into the outlet, correct? I have the same meter but haven't wanted to risk using it this way because I'm unsure if it can handle power going in reverse. Thanks!
That's correct. I've never had a problem using it this way. I figure 600w is only about 5A @ 120v, so it's really not much. Most outlets handle 20A and I don't think the Kill-A-Watt cares which direction the energy is coming from. Hope this helps!
I took it down during the winter. It was difficult to keep my batteries full let alone run a grid tie on top of it. This season I'm going to do something different so unfortunately I probably won't be connecting it back up. Thanks for the question.
@@OffGridBasement I built my system in the past 3 months (thanks for all the videos) so I am still trying to figure out my loads vs the sunshine. A couple of sunny days in a row and I am into surplus power. So I debating adding additional loads or something grid tied with an adjustable low voltage disconnect. Keep it set to pull the batteries down from full charge but disconnect at about 95%.
@@davidbrady9686 if you have other things to charge, that would the way to go. Plug them into the system. I'm looking into getting an electric lawn mower and chainsaw. Both 40v. Low voltage disconnect might work really well. Set it to turn on at your bulk charge setting and turn off at the float setting. Good luck!
@@OffGridBasement Ok no worries I appreciate the reply. I have the victron smart shunt so I’ll have to to look into how to set it up through that. I did find something on Missouri wind and solar. It’s a digital charge controller with divert relay and led volt meter for wind and solar.
I have the same inverter GTI-600W but I discovered the meter you have higher 580w, I have lower the meter I got 80W, I have only one solar panel has maximum power 100w Vmp 18.41V Voc 22.41V panel model CNX-100 and my inverter GTI- 600W without battery only solar. My doubt, do you need another more solar panels? I don't know how many more parts you need to give more power or it will damage the inverter, that is my question.
I put a smart AC plug on the grid tie inverter. When I doesn't sense AC power, it shuts itself off. It's a safety feature in the unit. Thanks for the question.
Since these inverters are actually made to connect directly to solar panels, I don't think there is anything like that. You could try connecting a 12 - 24v boost converter
Thanks for the video. So when your ac unit turns on it drains your battery's really fast right? Ac unit pulls 3k watts per hour or more?? How many amp hours are your batteries? Thanks.
No. It doesn't matter what is being powered. The unit pushed the same amount of wattage regardless of what was running, usually about 530w. So in the case of the AC unit, I would be using 2.5kw from the grid and 500w would be generated from the unit. I hope that clears it up. Thanks for the question.
@@DaBuDaSak There is no limiter on the unit. I researched the base consumption of my house. I realized my house was always using more than 600w so that's why I went with this inverter. If you feel that is not your case then go with a unit with a limiter to be safe.
Yes. Just connect them both to the same bus bars along with the battery. You would need an advanced charge controller to set up a relay for the inverter to shut off from the AC side. Not sure on how to do it.
I do not quite get it. You are charging batteries from grid power, costing you money. Using same power later (with the micro-inverter setup you explained), how do you get lower bill?
This system is completely off grid. I'm charging the batteries from 2.6k of solar. Once my batteries got close to full I would turn on the grid tie inverter so it could push the excess energy into my house. I hope that clears it up a little...
@@OffGridBasement Thank you for quick replay. Switching the batteries and grid tied inverter manually on and off is not good. If this switch over is done automatically, than I would like to know, how this is done.
Great point. All I know he has a dangerous set up. That is not up to code. What you are saving is not energy you are putting into the grid, it's energy from your solar system that is partially running the house.
It would only produce about 500w. I also had an external fan blowing in the unit so not to get too hot. The unit still works great. Thanks for the comment.
As long as the excess electricity doesn't leave my house there is no problem. The grid tie inverter doesn't produce more than what my house uses at its lowest point. It's just supplementing what I use in-house. I'm able to look at what my usage is from the grid by the hour through the website of my power supplier. Thanks for the comment!
I am not an electrical guy, but I personally imagine my house as a water bladder with two water inlets. One has large garden hose flow (electric co) and one is a small straw pipe flow. When the straw flow is turned on then the garden hose flow is pushed back a bit and flows less. As the need of “water” of the house is fixed. The electric company would only see less demand from their supply as if a few appliances were turned off. I don’t see how they are cheated at all. Seems perfectly safe with islanding. Thanks again OGB.
I'm confused. Is the outlet you have the inverter plugged into live? I just came across a video with this micro inverter and I'm curious how it works. Thanks and I enjoy your videos!
@@OffGridBasement Thanks for answering! So the outlet has 120 volts, and the inverter is pushing 120? There is no stalemate? I guess I'm lost lol sorry.
@@guyztruth4593 The grid tie inverter determines house voltage and then increases the inverter voltage slightly above house voltage. Example: if the house voltage is 120v, the inverter will output 122v.
I don't understand his set up. Not sure how it works. Your appliances can't know the difference between your grud-tued inverter and the grid. He needs to state if that outlet with the Kill-A-Watt energy monitor is hot. They don't sell male end plugs to do back feed. No way! Dangerous!
Maybe you can explain this to me. I have 12- 100W panels 6A each wired in parallel. Each panel puts out about 21V, separately. When wired together, I only get about 16V and about 9A from the PV array. I have a 1300W GTI and it gives me about 1A out, never more than 2A. I have meters on the 12v and the 120V sides. WTH is wrong? Maybe the GTI is loading the PV array down. I expected 60A from the PV array. I added a 2nd 1300W inverter on the same PV string and the outputs split, 1/2 on one and 1/2 on the other. I will need to install the 2nd PV string to use the 2nd inverter.
What is the minimum voltage for the GTI? The one I'm looking at is 34 - 46v. You might want to parallel your panels so you have two sets of 6 panels. That should put out around 30A @ 38V. It makes sense that the output split. The two units were receiving the same voltage, but at 1/2 the amperage. I hope this helps.
Does your electric company meter notice it being on? I’ve heard some meters record in AND out so these could charge you for the power you actually made. Perhaps it’s unlikely as your inverter is making a small amount in comparison to what’s coming IN so that maybe it’s just slowing down the incoming power flow “so to speak”.
If the power generated by inverter is used up by home appliances then the electric company would not even notice it because it doesn't even reach the meter.
That is exactly what is it doing. My base usage for my house is over 600w. I can see this by looking at the hourly usage from my electric companies' online portal. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks guys I’ll get one then! I was warned that our meters here could spin backwards and I’d be charged for it. I am a ceramic engineer as I hated electrical classes so your input makes sense to me in my simple mind.
I’ll buy one today from your link to help your site. Question…. I was going to run a separate 12-2 wire in attic from my 24v inverter directly to my fridge/freezer (& down a wall with a new dedicated “solar” receptacle). I am thinking the Grid Tie inverter might help negate this need for a line? The 600W it runs could power a 550W fridge even over night? Or am I asking too much? In which case I’ll run the 12-2 line and new outlet anyway.
@@john-vega I monitor the battery and turn it on via the smart plug. I can monitor the battery bank and turn on the smart plug from anywhere with cell service.
Please be careful with these. They inject power AFTER the circuit breaker. If you put loads on the same circuit as the inverter, it could overload the wires in the wall. It should have a dedicated outlet. That includes the entire branch circuit. You could have 3 outlets (branch) on a single breaker and not know it. You could shut off the breaker and test the affected outlets and mark them. I think these are used quite a bit in the UK?
thanks for the info. you didn't add in the batteries, mppt, solar panels and wiring. That would set your ROI back some. I am looking into doing the same to save a bit on monthly cost. Thanks sean from montreal
That's a good point. I didn't think about it since my initial reasoning for the off grid system wasn't for this. It would take many many more months for real savings. Thanks for the comment.
OGB, when you wired up your grid tie inverter, it looks like you chose a 63A breaker. I have had the same pure sine inverter for six months ( and soon your grid tie inverter thanks to your link!), if you set up a link for your breaker I’ll buy that there as well. Is there a reason (I am sure you have one!) you didn’t get a 25 or 30a version to more closely approximate the wattage output of the grid tie inverter? Please educate me and help dispel my electrical ignorance! 😅
It's actually a 32A breaker. You can check out my Diagram on my website. off-grid-basement.com/diagram.htm From there you can click on any image for the amazon link. Please let me know if you have any issues!
Superb layout and THANKS!😊 For some reason many of the images aren’t clickable. I’ll wait and try again later. Definitely want to keep supporting your work.
if you have smart meter you need 2 inverters, you have to have cv coils pointing correct way you need to wire it directly to panel no other outlets to stop fires
The app on my phone is from Victron. It's call VRM. I learned everything about it from Andy at the Off Grid Garage. Here is a link to his website with all the information you need! off-grid-garage.com/victron-connect-through-raspberry-pi/ Hope this helps!
Yes. It only supplies one circuit. Don't use it for trying to over power a breaker. I don't think that will be a good idea. Thanks for the question and comment.
I do exactly this daily 10 times(!). From 17 to 22 hour in every 15 minutes on, 15 minutes off (no special ventilator). It is controlled by a simple mechanical AC switch clock(!!) It is altogether 0.8 kWh daily from the battery to the grid -- at the best time we help the grid(!!!) Why? We send the surplus energy to the grid in the evening and make some void battery capacity for the morning. The battery level is not protected(!!!!) -- this appliance is off in the winter and when i am not at home.
you are not measuring how much the grid tie is saving you all you are really measuring is the difference from one year to the next and assuming everything else was equal so the grid tie was the reason. You have a kill a watt, just record how much goes thru it and keep track of that. Kwh into your house times the rate from the power co and you have a more accurate savings. And for others wanting to do this check with your electric co. Where i live it is against the providers rules to use grid tie inverters and if you are caught doing this the company can fine you and disconnect you from the grid for safety reasons. They will say anything connected to their system has to be certified and documented with them. I wish i could use these, they are a low cost and efficient way to lower your power bill.
You are right. I don't keep track of every kw my grid tie produces, but my electricity cost went up this year just like everyone else and my monthly bill is reduced. This is directly attributed to the use of a grid tie inverter. As long as you get a small enough inverter or an inverter with a limiter, you should be fine imo. Just don't over-produce! Thanks for the comment 👍
WHERE IM AT IF YOUR NOT USING ALL WATTS IT WILL GO IN GRIDE METER SO PUTTING IT ON LEG THAT HAS ALL AIR COND AND TV AND OTHER THINGS I WON,T GET CHARGE FOR IT
If you don't know what you are doing always talk to an electrician first. There are many risks including fire, so first try to understand how it all works and how much power you can push back into the house, using which circuit, etc. You can easily overload a circuit wire and the breaker will not trip because it only sees the current coming from the grid. In my house I have a dedicated circuit for injecting power from the solar array and nothing else. But I had an electrician inspect my work before turning it on and I made some mistakes I'm glad he caught. Just be safe with this stuff, a potential house fire is not something to take lightly. With that said, it's a cool project and can save you some cash with very inexpensive equipment.
That "Grid tied" micro-inverter doesn't look like a safe set up. You can't use a male end plug to feed electricity into something. Not a good set up. That set up cannot be up to code.
You're right. It's not to code or UL listed. There is also a chance of backfeeding to the grid without being registered by your utility. Use at your own risk.
It does seem like the 120VAC cord would be a suicide cord, but it is not. Remember that unless the GTI senses 120VAC, it does not produce 120VAC. The GTI must sense what the voltage and frequency is before it produces anything.
Only two things stopped me from doing a DIY grid tie system. If you have an old mechanical spinning power meter, you're golden. If you have a smart meter you need to be very careful. You should design a system that has CT clamps on your input from the utility side so you can set your inverter to NOT export electricity to the grid. 1) Some smart meters will accept the extra KW/H and then charge you for it as electricity consumed rather than provided. 2) Smart meter may alert the local utility that it is sensing power generation at your location and you're not in their database as a permitted solar address. Possible disconnection from local utility. Last consideration was that while these devices from off name companies are much cheaper than name brand, they don't appear to be UL listed. In the rare case there is something like a fire at your house (even if a kitchen fire with no electrical involved) your homeowner's insurance may deny your claim. Or, things may work fine for you and nothing will happen. It's all up to whatever risks you're comfortable with. Not saying it's right, but it is the world we're living in. You should look into a legal solar install. With the Federal tax credits and some states have solar incentive programs to install solar, you may substantially reduce the total cost and also have a system that you don't have to worry about and can also sell with the house as an upgrade.
Does it automatically disconnect from the utility if there is a power outage? Sending 120 volts out your service will turn into thousands on the other side of the pole transformer, and can *KILL* a lineman! _please stop doing this!_ Just plug an appliance (like a freezer) into it.
In the video I talk about a safety feature called "islanding". The inverter shuts off as soon as it doesn't sense any AC current. I hope that puts your mind at ease. Thanks for the comment 👍
That is correct. That is what ALL grid tie inverters do. Even the full house residential size grid tie inverters. People think they are getting extra protection from power outages, but they are not. Only if they have a hybrid system connected to a battery bank.
Ha,Ha 500 watts x 5hrs a day = 2,5 KW x $.15=.37 cent saving a day x 30 days =$11.1 You Need a sunny day every day. 4 months $44 saving .Impossible to achieve.Amen
@@OffGridBasement Agreed. The math doesn't really work out. Likely, you have made other changes as well, or if your heating and cooling load was different from one year to the next, that can significantly impact total usage. I've spent dozens of hours just air sealing and insulating this year, as well as family members moving in and out, so pinning changes to any one thing is an insurmountable task for me.
That’s not a safe wiring setup. You should not be sending AC power into your home using an extension cord, an outlet strip and a residential outlet. That’s just asking for someone to get electrocuted.
You are correct. This setup is not to code. I used this size unit b/c of the fact that my house never uses less than the wattage this unit puts out. If you go with something bigger you really need to hard wire directly to your main panel and use a limiter. Thanks for the info.
If I installed that thing my electric company would likely detect it and turn off my power. I’m pretty sure they don’t want non UL listed grid tie inverters tied to the grid, never mind the net metering agreement. People watch videos like this and think great idea! Oh have fun with that.
True. They will. You need to make sure your base line amount of vampiric drain is higher than what the unit can produce. You DON'T want to back feed the grid! Thanks for the comment.
@@OffGridBasement I’m not that picky with daily life. Lol. Can I use this Inverter and not push juice on the Grid and stay just on the House side of the meter? Thanks and Subscribed Still Learning.
@@soggyb4082 the only way to do that is to make sure the base usage of your house is higher than the output of the inverter. Or you can turn it on when you run the air conditioner or clothes dryer. There isn't a limiter with this device.
@@soggyb4082 this is not a safe set up. Do not try it. There are multiple problems with this set up. First of all you cannot back feed your home from an outlet. Secondly, your power provider's voltage and frequency and your "Grid-tied" inverter frequeny cannot be in phase from that set up. It will burn down your home.
@@eddietee6305 That is not true. First, 600W is safe to inject though a normal 20 Amp 120V circuit. Second, grid tie inverters like this sync with your house Voltage and frequency before injecting any power. Lastly, the correct term is “anti islanding” in that this unit will not inject any power in a grid down situation to protect line workers.
Thanks for a great channel. You are super informative and detailed, yet your presentation style is very humble.
Thanks Gorman! I'm just happy that people get something from it. I'm not right 100% of the time, but I'm learning just like everyone else. Thanks for the comment!
@@OffGridBasement W
Very cool, I just ordered what looks to be that exact unit because I plan to build multiple small systems that I can combine as needed rather than a single large single system. Glad it's worked out well for you.
Just make sure to control the heat and larger enough gauge wire. Thanks for the comment.
@@OffGridBasement Yeah, I am thinking that a lot of people have problems because they try to squeeze the maximum out of their electronics at all times.
I got it figured out thank. It's what I've been looking for.
Glad to hear it!
Interesting concept, i did it the opposite way. I removed a circuit from the panel, i then ran a plug from the inverter to the outlet. (outlet is on the circuit removed at panel) I hooked up a transfer switch to another house power circuit, the switch will then switch to house power at 12. 6 volts and come back at 14.1 volts.
Good thinking!
Porky...this is what I want to do, but not sure how specifically to do it. Do you have info (site or video) on how to set it up? Do you use a sub panel? Can you do more than one circuit? Can you do the circuit for the central air?
@@brian_onthetrail if you don’t understand this don’t do it as there’s a lot that can go wrong you really want a specialist
I did not have much luck with the 1400watt version. May 1200w panels seem to bottle neck down to about 645 watts. So happy with PowMr registered full 1.2 kW of solar today 😄. Unfortunately I have no 36volt battery to test if 1400w grid tie works better with a battery.
Hope you get that battery soon!
@@OffGridBasement Not sure, I need anymore investment in solar now. More electrical than I need. And gas seems way cheaper than solar in terms of water heating for winter. PowMr is off grid. So not using much grid at all.
@@OffGridBasement I just run a couple of extensions. Cooking and heating diminishing savings and return. Plumbing electric wayer heaters could be very expensive so no plans for that.
I have the 1400watt 36volt version too. I have mine hooked up to only 200 watts of solar panels at 36volts. I observed it starts getting really hot at 300watts so my remaining solar panels are connected to my battery backup solar system instead. I think the 1400watt version is overrated... I saw a video of another TH-camr who opened up the 1000w and 1400w versions and it was literally the same.
How do you keep your battery bank from discharging, during sundown, as they're also connected to your 600 watt GTI?
I have it set on a timer. I also check it all the time and turn it off and on via smart switch. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for the idea..im starting my own solar set-up. I saw a 1000w version of that grid tied micro inverter too.
Good luck!
Thanks..btw, on the specs sheet it says the max wattage should not exceed 650w. On your set-up u got more than 7kw, right? Hows the microinverter holding up?
Very helpful - been questioning my set up and not quite understanding where my charge is going.
Glad it helped. Thanks for the comment!
hello, great video, my question is You should not include the cost of the solar panels that charge your battery? or what ever cost that charge the battery?
I didn't feel it was necessary since the system was already in place. All I did was add the small piece of equipment to an existing setup. You have a good point though. Thanks for the comment.
Toys for watts explained that while this works, because the inverters aren't UL listed if your house burns down and is tied in any way to that inverter you will take a total loss. There are safer inverters on the market. Sungold I think is one that I'm considering. And it allows a generator hookup.
Thanks for the info!
He has a dangerous set up. That cannot be up to code. No way. You cannot back feed using a male plug.
@robertolang9684it gets used, meter never sees it
Would this void your home insurance in the event of a fire?
If it were an electrical fire then I would probably have some explaining to do. That is another reason why I'm not trying to work with higher loads. Just supplementing the base load my house uses.
@@OffGridBasement To risky for me. Good video though 👍
Just to be sure, you're backfeeding the Kill-A-Watt from the grid-tie inverter and it's still able to measure the watts going back into the outlet, correct? I have the same meter but haven't wanted to risk using it this way because I'm unsure if it can handle power going in reverse. Thanks!
That's correct. I've never had a problem using it this way. I figure 600w is only about 5A @ 120v, so it's really not much. Most outlets handle 20A and I don't think the Kill-A-Watt cares which direction the energy is coming from. Hope this helps!
I have a Krieger sine wave inverter but it won’t work by plugging into an outlet. I guess the grid tie inverter you have is different?
Isn't a Krieger purely an off grid inverter? Not sure.
Are you still running the grid tie inverter? If so how about a 6 month update?
I took it down during the winter. It was difficult to keep my batteries full let alone run a grid tie on top of it. This season I'm going to do something different so unfortunately I probably won't be connecting it back up. Thanks for the question.
@@OffGridBasement I built my system in the past 3 months (thanks for all the videos) so I am still trying to figure out my loads vs the sunshine. A couple of sunny days in a row and I am into surplus power. So I debating adding additional loads or something grid tied with an adjustable low voltage disconnect. Keep it set to pull the batteries down from full charge but disconnect at about 95%.
@@davidbrady9686 if you have other things to charge, that would the way to go. Plug them into the system. I'm looking into getting an electric lawn mower and chainsaw. Both 40v. Low voltage disconnect might work really well. Set it to turn on at your bulk charge setting and turn off at the float setting. Good luck!
This is really cool. Can I make it so the grid tie only kicks on when my batteries are in float and doesn’t discharge from the batteries at all?
I wish I knew how to do that. I know it would involve the relay on a Victron smart shunt in order to trigger something. I just don't know. Sorry.
@@OffGridBasement Ok no worries I appreciate the reply. I have the victron smart shunt so I’ll have to to look into how to set it up through that. I did find something on Missouri wind and solar. It’s a digital charge controller with divert relay and led volt meter for wind and solar.
I have the same inverter GTI-600W but I discovered the meter you have higher 580w, I have lower the meter I got 80W, I have only one solar panel has maximum power 100w Vmp 18.41V Voc 22.41V panel model CNX-100 and my inverter GTI- 600W without battery only solar.
My doubt, do you need another more solar panels? I don't know how many more parts you need to give more power or it will damage the inverter, that is my question.
As long as you don't go over the maximum voltage of the inverter you will be fine. Thanks for the comment.
how do you keep the grid tie inverter from draining the batteries? It will just keep running until the battery is drained
I put a smart AC plug on the grid tie inverter. When I doesn't sense AC power, it shuts itself off. It's a safety feature in the unit. Thanks for the question.
Can you run two of these at the same time? Plugin to two different outlets?
Yes. Just make sure they are on two different circuits, not just two different outlets in the same room. Odds are they would be on the same circuit.
Very nice.
Did you ground the solar array by tying a ground from the array into the house ground?
My house ground is on the other side of the house. I was able to use the water line that goes under the house. Thanks for the comment and question.
This is what I have been looking for. But I have everything set up for 12-volt battery system. And ideas where I can find an inverter for that? Thanks
Since these inverters are actually made to connect directly to solar panels, I don't think there is anything like that. You could try connecting a 12 - 24v boost converter
Thanks for the video. So when your ac unit turns on it drains your battery's really fast right? Ac unit pulls 3k watts per hour or more?? How many amp hours are your batteries? Thanks.
No. It doesn't matter what is being powered. The unit pushed the same amount of wattage regardless of what was running, usually about 530w. So in the case of the AC unit, I would be using 2.5kw from the grid and 500w would be generated from the unit. I hope that clears it up. Thanks for the question.
@@OffGridBasement How are you limiting the power output?
@@DaBuDaSak There is no limiter on the unit. I researched the base consumption of my house. I realized my house was always using more than 600w so that's why I went with this inverter. If you feel that is not your case then go with a unit with a limiter to be safe.
Would it be possible to connect the inverter as a dump load from the solar charge controller?
Yes. Just connect them both to the same bus bars along with the battery. You would need an advanced charge controller to set up a relay for the inverter to shut off from the AC side. Not sure on how to do it.
I do not quite get it. You are charging batteries from grid power, costing you money. Using same power later (with the micro-inverter setup you explained), how do you get lower bill?
This system is completely off grid. I'm charging the batteries from 2.6k of solar. Once my batteries got close to full I would turn on the grid tie inverter so it could push the excess energy into my house. I hope that clears it up a little...
@@OffGridBasement Thank you for quick replay. Switching the batteries and grid tied inverter manually on and off is not good. If this switch over is done automatically, than I would like to know, how this is done.
Great point. All I know he has a dangerous set up. That is not up to code. What you are saving is not energy you are putting into the grid, it's energy from your solar system that is partially running the house.
You pushing the watts on that 600w grid tie ? If your getting close to 600w how come you haven’t burn up that grid tie yet?😮
It would only produce about 500w. I also had an external fan blowing in the unit so not to get too hot. The unit still works great. Thanks for the comment.
is that even legal ? Or do you have a program worked out with your electric company??
As long as the excess electricity doesn't leave my house there is no problem. The grid tie inverter doesn't produce more than what my house uses at its lowest point. It's just supplementing what I use in-house. I'm able to look at what my usage is from the grid by the hour through the website of my power supplier. Thanks for the comment!
Bingo. As long as it doesn’t affect electric company, you can rig up a treadmill or bicycle to generate as much power at home as you’d like.
@@OffGridBasement it still sounds like the electric company is getting cheated not that i care
I am not an electrical guy, but I personally imagine my house as a water bladder with two water inlets. One has large garden hose flow (electric co) and one is a small straw pipe flow. When the straw flow is turned on then the garden hose flow is pushed back a bit and flows less. As the need of “water” of the house is fixed. The electric company would only see less demand from their supply as if a few appliances were turned off. I don’t see how they are cheated at all. Seems perfectly safe with islanding. Thanks again OGB.
That set up cannot be legal. No way.
I'm confused. Is the outlet you have the inverter plugged into live? I just came across a video with this micro inverter and I'm curious how it works. Thanks and I enjoy your videos!
Yes. It's a live circuit. It basically pushes power back into my main panel.
@@OffGridBasement Thanks for answering! So the outlet has 120 volts, and the inverter is pushing 120? There is no stalemate? I guess I'm lost lol sorry.
@@guyztruth4593 I never experienced a stalemate. It did push out 120v to a 120v live outlet.
@@guyztruth4593 The grid tie inverter determines house voltage and then increases the inverter voltage slightly above house voltage. Example: if the house voltage is 120v, the inverter will output 122v.
I don't understand his set up. Not sure how it works. Your appliances can't know the difference between your grud-tued inverter and the grid. He needs to state if that outlet with the Kill-A-Watt energy monitor is hot. They don't sell male end plugs to do back feed. No way! Dangerous!
Pretty cool how use both front and rear camera at the same time
Yes. The Samsung note 20 ultra has that ability. Thanks for the comment.
Maybe you can explain this to me.
I have 12- 100W panels 6A each wired in parallel.
Each panel puts out about 21V, separately.
When wired together, I only get about 16V and about 9A from the PV array.
I have a 1300W GTI and it gives me about 1A out, never more than 2A.
I have meters on the 12v and the 120V sides.
WTH is wrong?
Maybe the GTI is loading the PV array down.
I expected 60A from the PV array.
I added a 2nd 1300W inverter on the same PV string and the outputs split, 1/2 on one and 1/2 on the other.
I will need to install the 2nd PV string to use the 2nd inverter.
What is the minimum voltage for the GTI? The one I'm looking at is 34 - 46v. You might want to parallel your panels so you have two sets of 6 panels. That should put out around 30A @ 38V. It makes sense that the output split. The two units were receiving the same voltage, but at 1/2 the amperage. I hope this helps.
Does your electric company meter notice it being on? I’ve heard some meters record in AND out so these could charge you for the power you actually made. Perhaps it’s unlikely as your inverter is making a small amount in comparison to what’s coming IN so that maybe it’s just slowing down the incoming power flow “so to speak”.
If the power generated by inverter is used up by home appliances then the electric company would not even notice it because it doesn't even reach the meter.
That is exactly what is it doing. My base usage for my house is over 600w. I can see this by looking at the hourly usage from my electric companies' online portal. Thanks for the comment!
Yep! That's what is happening. That is why I choose such a small inverter. Anything better, I would need a limiter.
Thanks guys I’ll get one then! I was warned that our meters here could spin backwards and I’d be charged for it. I am a ceramic engineer as I hated electrical classes so your input makes sense to me in my simple mind.
I’ll buy one today from your link to help your site. Question…. I was going to run a separate 12-2 wire in attic from my 24v inverter directly to my fridge/freezer (& down a wall with a new dedicated “solar” receptacle). I am thinking the Grid Tie inverter might help negate this need for a line? The 600W it runs could power a 550W fridge even over night? Or am I asking too much? In which case I’ll run the 12-2 line and new outlet anyway.
Cool. Thanks for the simple explanation
No problem!
Hi! what is the app you are using??
It's the victron app I downloaded and installed into my raspberry pi.
Im confused. Are you charging your batteries by your grid then pumping more power back to the grid? Or charging by solar ?
Charging with solar and pushing power back into my house when the batteries were getting full.
@@OffGridBasement ahh ok thanks
@@OffGridBasement is this automated? how so? or do you manually turn on yourself (connect battery to house outlet) when the battery is near full?
@@john-vega I monitor the battery and turn it on via the smart plug. I can monitor the battery bank and turn on the smart plug from anywhere with cell service.
Please be careful with these. They inject power AFTER the circuit breaker. If you put loads on the same circuit as the inverter, it could overload the wires in the wall. It should have a dedicated outlet. That includes the entire branch circuit. You could have 3 outlets (branch) on a single breaker and not know it. You could shut off the breaker and test the affected outlets and mark them. I think these are used quite a bit in the UK?
yes.. very common in places with 220v. You're right. You need to make sure to know EXACTLY what's on the circuit. Thanks for the info and the comment.
what size are your panls and how many
I have 2600w in panels. Four 250w and eight 200w panels.
thanks for the info. you didn't add in the batteries, mppt, solar panels and wiring. That would set your ROI back some. I am looking into doing the same to save a bit on monthly cost. Thanks sean from montreal
That's a good point. I didn't think about it since my initial reasoning for the off grid system wasn't for this. It would take many many more months for real savings. Thanks for the comment.
@@OffGridBasement no problem.. I am on the verge adding solar keep the great vids coming
OGB, when you wired up your grid tie inverter, it looks like you chose a 63A breaker. I have had the same pure sine inverter for six months ( and soon your grid tie inverter thanks to your link!), if you set up a link for your breaker I’ll buy that there as well.
Is there a reason (I am sure you have one!) you didn’t get a 25 or 30a version to more closely approximate the wattage output of the grid tie inverter? Please educate me and help dispel my electrical ignorance! 😅
It's actually a 32A breaker. You can check out my Diagram on my website. off-grid-basement.com/diagram.htm
From there you can click on any image for the amazon link. Please let me know if you have any issues!
Superb layout and THANKS!😊
For some reason many of the images aren’t clickable. I’ll wait and try again later. Definitely want to keep supporting your work.
if you have smart meter you need 2 inverters, you have to have cv coils pointing correct way
you need to wire it directly to panel no other outlets to stop fires
Very good point. Thanks for the comment.
how about info about the app you use on your phone?
The app on my phone is from Victron. It's call VRM. I learned everything about it from Andy at the Off Grid Garage. Here is a link to his website with all the information you need! off-grid-garage.com/victron-connect-through-raspberry-pi/
Hope this helps!
Now does this only supply to that oulwts breaker?
Yes. It only supplies one circuit. Don't use it for trying to over power a breaker. I don't think that will be a good idea. Thanks for the question and comment.
@OffGridBasement I say I didn't think it be smart use it on same circuit as inverter charger
Once I get some extra panels I'm definitely going to do this
I do exactly this daily 10 times(!). From 17 to 22 hour in every 15 minutes on, 15 minutes off (no special ventilator). It is controlled by a simple mechanical AC switch clock(!!) It is altogether 0.8 kWh daily from the battery to the grid -- at the best time we help the grid(!!!) Why? We send the surplus energy to the grid in the evening and make some void battery capacity for the morning. The battery level is not protected(!!!!) -- this appliance is off in the winter and when i am not at home.
Thanks for the info and the comment.
you are not measuring how much the grid tie is saving you all you are really measuring is the difference from one year to the next and assuming everything else was equal so the grid tie was the reason. You have a kill a watt, just record how much goes thru it and keep track of that. Kwh into your house times the rate from the power co and you have a more accurate savings. And for others wanting to do this check with your electric co. Where i live it is against the providers rules to use grid tie inverters and if you are caught doing this the company can fine you and disconnect you from the grid for safety reasons. They will say anything connected to their system has to be certified and documented with them. I wish i could use these, they are a low cost and efficient way to lower your power bill.
You are right. I don't keep track of every kw my grid tie produces, but my electricity cost went up this year just like everyone else and my monthly bill is reduced. This is directly attributed to the use of a grid tie inverter. As long as you get a small enough inverter or an inverter with a limiter, you should be fine imo. Just don't over-produce! Thanks for the comment 👍
WHERE IM AT IF YOUR NOT USING ALL WATTS IT WILL GO IN GRIDE METER SO PUTTING IT ON LEG THAT HAS ALL AIR COND AND TV AND OTHER THINGS I WON,T GET CHARGE FOR IT
Yes. Just make sure you're always using more power than what you're producing so not to back feed the grid.
@@OffGridBasement again thanks for the info have a great day
So you spent $2000 to save $30/month or less? Your ROI is around 5 years assuming it requires no maintenance or replacement parts in that time.
I'm referring to just the grid tie inverter. My off grid system was never intended to save me money.
I get better results using the PV array to charge batteries.
this is more used for an energy dump for when my batteries were complete full, but there is still good solar to be had. Thanks for the comment.
Not sure why you need an MPPT inverter plugged into batteries...
I used it as a power dump for when my batteries are full.
Just remember, a negative times a negative equals a positive and two wrongs don't make a right... But 3 rights make a left.
Haha! Thanks for the insight and comment.
If you don't know what you are doing always talk to an electrician first. There are many risks including fire, so first try to understand how it all works and how much power you can push back into the house, using which circuit, etc. You can easily overload a circuit wire and the breaker will not trip because it only sees the current coming from the grid. In my house I have a dedicated circuit for injecting power from the solar array and nothing else. But I had an electrician inspect my work before turning it on and I made some mistakes I'm glad he caught. Just be safe with this stuff, a potential house fire is not something to take lightly. With that said, it's a cool project and can save you some cash with very inexpensive equipment.
Thank you for the great information and the comment.
You really need two. One for the other 240v leg
That would be the best way to set it up. Thanks for the comment.
First!
Very nice!
That "Grid tied" micro-inverter doesn't look like a safe set up. You can't use a male end plug to feed electricity into something. Not a good set up. That set up cannot be up to code.
You're right. It's not to code or UL listed. There is also a chance of backfeeding to the grid without being registered by your utility. Use at your own risk.
It does seem like the 120VAC cord would be a suicide cord, but it is not. Remember that unless the GTI senses 120VAC, it does not produce 120VAC. The GTI must sense what the voltage and frequency is before it produces anything.
Only two things stopped me from doing a DIY grid tie system. If you have an old mechanical spinning power meter, you're golden. If you have a smart meter you need to be very careful. You should design a system that has CT clamps on your input from the utility side so you can set your inverter to NOT export electricity to the grid. 1) Some smart meters will accept the extra KW/H and then charge you for it as electricity consumed rather than provided. 2) Smart meter may alert the local utility that it is sensing power generation at your location and you're not in their database as a permitted solar address. Possible disconnection from local utility. Last consideration was that while these devices from off name companies are much cheaper than name brand, they don't appear to be UL listed. In the rare case there is something like a fire at your house (even if a kitchen fire with no electrical involved) your homeowner's insurance may deny your claim. Or, things may work fine for you and nothing will happen. It's all up to whatever risks you're comfortable with. Not saying it's right, but it is the world we're living in. You should look into a legal solar install. With the Federal tax credits and some states have solar incentive programs to install solar, you may substantially reduce the total cost and also have a system that you don't have to worry about and can also sell with the house as an upgrade.
Thank you for all of the great information!
I got mine for $30. Didn't know what the fuck it was.
Ha! Now you know! Make sure not to back feed the power grid!
Does it automatically disconnect from the utility if there is a power outage?
Sending 120 volts out your service will turn into thousands on the other side of the pole transformer, and can *KILL* a lineman!
_please stop doing this!_ Just plug an appliance (like a freezer) into it.
It doesn't put out power when there is a power outage.
In the video I talk about a safety feature called "islanding". The inverter shuts off as soon as it doesn't sense any AC current. I hope that puts your mind at ease. Thanks for the comment 👍
@@OffGridBasement ah, so it becomes a brick when you actually go off-grid.
Sry, no I don't trust the CCP (Cheap Chinese Poop)
OGB covered this in his video. I hope the commenter familiarizes himself more with the details of how you have things set up OGB.
That is correct. That is what ALL grid tie inverters do. Even the full house residential size grid tie inverters. People think they are getting extra protection from power outages, but they are not. Only if they have a hybrid system connected to a battery bank.
Ha,Ha 500 watts x 5hrs a day = 2,5 KW x $.15=.37 cent saving a day x 30 days =$11.1 You Need a sunny day every day. 4 months $44 saving .Impossible to achieve.Amen
Your math is sound. There must have been additional factors along with the GTI. Thanks for the comment.
@@OffGridBasement Agreed. The math doesn't really work out. Likely, you have made other changes as well, or if your heating and cooling load was different from one year to the next, that can significantly impact total usage. I've spent dozens of hours just air sealing and insulating this year, as well as family members moving in and out, so pinning changes to any one thing is an insurmountable task for me.
That’s not a safe wiring setup. You should not be sending AC power into your home using an extension cord, an outlet strip and a residential outlet. That’s just asking for someone to get electrocuted.
You are correct. This setup is not to code. I used this size unit b/c of the fact that my house never uses less than the wattage this unit puts out. If you go with something bigger you really need to hard wire directly to your main panel and use a limiter. Thanks for the info.
Thank you. Tell him. Let him know. It's wrong and it's dangerous. Viewers don't try that. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
If I installed that thing my electric company would likely detect it and turn off my power. I’m pretty sure they don’t want non UL listed grid tie inverters tied to the grid, never mind the net metering agreement. People watch videos like this and think great idea! Oh have fun with that.
True. They will. You need to make sure your base line amount of vampiric drain is higher than what the unit can produce. You DON'T want to back feed the grid! Thanks for the comment.
I want to subscribe but in the end you asked for it so I didn't
I've always wondered if I should stop saying what I say at the end. Thanks for the info.
@@OffGridBasement I’m not that picky with daily life. Lol. Can I use this Inverter and not push juice on the Grid and stay just on the House side of the meter? Thanks and Subscribed Still Learning.
@@soggyb4082 the only way to do that is to make sure the base usage of your house is higher than the output of the inverter. Or you can turn it on when you run the air conditioner or clothes dryer. There isn't a limiter with this device.
@@soggyb4082 this is not a safe set up. Do not try it. There are multiple problems with this set up. First of all you cannot back feed your home from an outlet. Secondly, your power provider's voltage and frequency and your "Grid-tied" inverter frequeny cannot be in phase from that set up. It will burn down your home.
@@eddietee6305 That is not true. First, 600W is safe to inject though a normal 20 Amp 120V circuit. Second, grid tie inverters like this sync with your house Voltage and frequency before injecting any power. Lastly, the correct term is “anti islanding” in that this unit will not inject any power in a grid down situation to protect line workers.
Id like to see your solar to battery to grid tie set up. Is it 12v to the battery? Is it 24v to the grid tie? And you mentioned a timer?
You should check out my grid tie playlist. It has more videos on the subject. Thanks for the comment.