The Pilots were also doomed by the fact that originally expansion wasn't going to happen until 1971. However, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington didn't want Kansas City to be without a major league team for that long after the Athletics left for Oakland and he threatened MLB's antitrust exemption. The moved up timetable left Seattle with little time to get improvements done to make the stadium more suitable for temporary use and to get ownership finances in better shape. Kansas City at least had a suitable enough stadium, plans for a new one drawn up, and an owner in Ewing Kaufman who had plenty of money.
Twist of irony is that the Gund Brothers, who owned the California Golden Seals/Cleveland Barons and after merger, the Minnesota North Stars, wanted to bring NHL hockey back to the Bay Area, but was rejected by the Board of Governors. A compromise came when the Gunds were allowed to sell the North Stars to Howard Baldwin in exchange for the new franchise (San Jose Sharks) and be allowed to stock the roster with North Stars players. In essence the Sharks are the indirect successor to the original Golden Seals/Barons franchise.
Fun fact; former NY Met David Segui's father, Diego Segui, was the only player to play for both the Pilots and the Mariners. He also played for the A's both in Kansas City and Oakland.
San Diego also had the Rockets for the first five years before moving to Houston, San Diego despite having two failed short lived teams had some names play there such as Elvin Hayes, Rudy Tomjanovich, Pat Riley, Calvin Murphy, Bill Walton, Tom Chambers, Terry Cummings, World B Free, Kobe's father Joe Bryant
I saw the scouts play the Blackhawks on n Chicago. A few years later,, I made friends with some folks from KC. I mentioned the Scouts, they had no idea what I was talking about.
Yes. Surprised that wasn’t mentioned in the video nor any of the history of the ownership swindling the Braves out of Buffalo. Also, the fact that the Barons were the relocated Oakland Seals/ California Golden Seals. Important information to omit as to why these teams ended up in SanDiego & Cleveland respectively IMO.
I grew up in Boston in the 1970s, and the only Celtics game I ever went to was the Celtics against the Buffalo Braves. They had Bob McAdoo as their big star.
The most memorable thing about the Pilots was Jim Bouton's book "Ball Four". My Mom bought this book for her then 10 year old son not knowing that it wasn't your typical sports book.
Spot on. Ginger, you should read this book and watch the first section of the Jon Bois documentary about the Seattle Mariners, tons to learn and you’ll end up with a lot to talk about.
I read that book in the early '80s. Loved it! I played organized ball all through the '70s and '80s, as I grew up. Even as a kid, I could relate to Bouton's "ball player" stories.
Not sure why the NHL having an odd number of teams is considered interesting. They had 21 teams from 1979 until 1991, when the San Jose Sharks were accepted into the league.
Do better research on the Barons. They moved from Oakland (Seals aka California Golden) and were a franchise there as part of the NHL 6 team expansion in 1967. You give the impression that they were only a franchise for two seasons. They pretty much had the same roster as their final season in Oakland.
I remember the Seattle Pilots for one reason. Joe Sparma, a starting pitcher for my team, the Detroit Tigers, carried a no-hitter against them into the ninth inning. He gave up a hit and that was the end of that but the game was carried by the local station and would have been the first no-hitter I had seen, on TV or anywhere. Joe was known for being wild and I don't recall how many walks he gave up but he came close. Staying with the Detroit theme, who could forget the Detroit Wheels of the old WFL. They were bad even by WFL standards of the day. They were so bad the group of 32 owners gave up about midway through their one season in 1974 and the league took them over, charging each other franchise $60,000 to cover their expenses. They finally folded with six games remaining and held a draft for any team that wanted any of the players. I think maybe six guys got picked up by the other clubs. Interestingly, Mike Illitch, Little Caesar pizza magnate and future owner of the Red Wings and Tigers was part of the original Wheels ownership group, his first foray into professional sports. One thing, the Wheels made people feel a little bit better about the Lions. Not much, but a little.
I was at that game. Yes it was the Pilots' only national telecast and that was a big deal in Seattle. Despite the almost no hitter, I remember that through walks and errors the came was still competitive. On another note, the Pilots' leadoff man Tommy Harper was known for stealing bases. After making it to first, presumably on a walk, in the first inning, he tried to steal second and was thrown out by Bill Freehan.
@@johnwhite5485 You were there??? That's awesome! That Tiger team was the team of my youth, the team that made me fall in love with the game. You're the first person I have, well kinda met, who remembers that game. Not even my friends do. Way cool! Thanks for getting back to me. Old Joe was a bit on the wild side. Former starting QB for the OSU Buckeye's, but we didn't hold that against him once he was a Tiger. He started the pennant clinching game in 68, but he didn't get along with the manager Mayo Smith so Smith basically benched him for the World Series that year. He died young, heart problems. Sad end really. But he did get a ring. The good old Pilots. I imagine I had a few baseball cards from that team, I bought a lot of packs trying to complete my Tiger collection as well as the collectables from the 68 Series. Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA, Denny McClain's 31-6 record, Mickey Lolich pitching three complete games in the Series, beating Gibson in Game 7, the year of the pitcher. Way cool.
@@itinerantpatriot1196 I appreciate your enthusiastic response. I grew up not far from that stadium and my parents started taking me to minor league games at that Sicks, the Raniers, first and later the Angels. The stadium was named for Emil Sick, owner the the minor league team and the Ranier Brewing Company. A Lowe's now occupies that parcel of land; they have home plate marked near the entrance. I remember in the prior year, 1968 my father was pulling for the Tigers in the World Series, which, as I assume that you are well aware that at they won four games to three. Looked up Sparma on Wikipedia, Smith wasn't the only with whom he had issues; he didn't get along with Woody Hayes either.
@@johnwhite5485 Indeed I do. Mickey Lolich jumping into Bill Freehan's arm at the end, even Gibson striking out 17 of the local heroes in Game 1. The riots of 67 did a number on the city, the Tigers brought us together in 68. What a time. I remember thinking at the time that Seattle got jobbed after only one season. I was happy when you got the Mariners. Ken Griffey Jr. What a stud. He went off on Sparky Anderson in 1990 for intentionally walking him one series damn near every time he came to the plate. They kissed and made up later. Sparky had a real soft-spot for the kid, considering he was always hanging around the clubhouse of the Big Red Machine. Best of luck this season, unless it's against us.
The Pilots were not forced to move. They were bought by Bud Selig during the 1970 spring training and moved to Milwaukee for the 1970 season. With the horrid attendance that Seattle had it drove them to bankruptcy. Fun fact - the Brewers were supposed to be red white and blue but they obviously didn’t get jerseys in time for the 70 season they took the old pilots jerseys and ripped off the logos and put Milwaukee on it.
@@principalmcvicker6530They were going to start in '71 which would have given them enough time to fix up Sick's Stadium and they already had the Kingdome plans ready.
The Pilots attendance was better than four other MLB teams, including one of the other expansion teams. The principal owner of the Pilots was Dewey Soriano, who did not have enough money to operate an MLB franchise.
@@principalmcvicker6530 You can't blame Kansas City and Missouri for all the problems. If the Pilots had started playing in 1971, they still would have had to play at Sick's. Local interests were fighting over the location of the Kingdome until late 1971 and the stadium wasn't complete until1 1976. Could they have fixed up Sick's better with more time? Not sure. It wasn't just adding more seating. There were water pressure - fine with 3,000 people in the stands, not so good with 10,000 or more - and other plumbing issues.
There was a local buyer for the team, Fred Danz, but the league capitulated to Selig who was bitter over the Braves leaving Milwaukee and him having been passed up for a replacement expansion team, by denying the sale to Danz.
Another candidate for this category: Kansas City-Omaha Kings. Yes, the NBA franchise known as the Kings had 2 home cities for 3 seasons: 1972-73 through 1974-75. In 1972 the Cincinnati Royals relocated to Kansas City & Omaha, changing their name to the Kings. For 3 seasons they played one half of their home games at Omaha Civic Auditorium. Once the Kings made the decision to play all of their home games in Kansas City starting with the 1975-76 season, Omaha has been without an NBA franchise. But Omaha felt sweet revenge when the Kings high tailed it out of Kansas City and moved to Sacramento in 1985.
so i turned 18 a couple months after the california golden seals season. my bud, his dad and i layed our 100 dollar season ticket deposit to the new organization as they told us it'll be only up hill starting next year. we were stoked, on that last game we won scoring a goal on the last second or two of the final period. one week later in the middle of the night the owner packed up the box trucks and moved across country to cleveland. we were pissed, we actually were starting to fill the oakland collisium other than when dave schultz and flyers came to town. everyone was shocked and mad for sure. i hoped they would fail and moved back, well i was half right lol.
That was an interesting video, though I'm wondering why the host included the San Diego Clippers, who lasted for six years in that city, but omitted the San Diego Rockets, who only lasted four seasons (1967-71), making them more of a "flash-in-the-pan," in that respect. Also, the Kansas City Scouts lasted a mere two seasons in the NHL (1974-76), before decamping for Colorado, where they became the Rockies for six years before ending up as the New Jersey Devils in 1982. Speaking of Kansas City, the NBA's Kings franchise was there for a respectable thirteen seasons, but for the first three of those seasons, they were officially the "Kansas City-Omaha Kings," playing a certain number of games in Nebraska each year. Also, when speaking of the Seattle Pilots in the first part of the video, I was unfamiliar with the name of their home stadium, and so I thought he was saying that the Pilots had "a sick stadium" to play in, i.e., a stadium that wasn't well. I looked it up and was surprised that it was actually "Sick's Stadium," which may have been the only stadium at that time with an apostrophe. And speaking of "stadium," I love the way the host says the word "stadium": I don't think I've ever heard that first syllable stretched out for quite that length: "Staaaaaadium." But overall, a fun blast from the past.
I once sat in one of those boxes at the Richfield Coliseum for a Cavs game. (That's what they were called back then.) I got the tickect from a friend that couldn't go to his company's box. It was kind of like a luxury box. You could order concessions from your seat and have them delivered. Also, at halftime, they distributed first half statistics sheets. It was an interesting perspective to watch a game. The main problem with the coliseum was the location. It was right off an exit of I-271 but there was literally nothing else there for miles other than residences. But, it was 20 miles south of the current home of Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse in downtown Cleveland. It was actually closer to Akron (15 miles). I like it as I lived in Cuyahoga Falls at the time. The attendance in those years was pretty good despite the location as they were in one of their heydays. It was the Brad Daughrety/Mark Price era which unfortunately coincided with Michael Jordan's prime. MJ was routinely the killer of CAVS dreams with last second buckets just like John Elway was for the Browns. So, the location was definitely a drawback for new franchises. A couple of indoor soccer and Arena Football team also struggled with attendance and didn't last long either .
Actually got a couple stories about the Cleveland Force and the Cleveland Crunch in the Colosseum. The Cleveland force was around for 10 years and then quit after their first championship series (which they lost). Then after 1 year wait, they got the expansion Cleveland Crunch. The reason why they moved was because the AHL Muskegon lumberjacks were moving in Cleveland in the MISL folded in the 91-92 year. So all the remaining teams had to choose where they wanted to go into the NPSL or the CISL. Cleveland actually has support for the indoor soccer team unfortunately outside of Cleveland no one's heard of, and because no one on the National Sports talk talked about it no one locally talks about it either except the station that carries them. Then the Crunch moved to the Convocation Center, because the Lumberjacks moved in. They won 3 championships in 94, 96, and 99. Does the cisl and npsl reformed back into the MISL, the original owner bought it back and change the name back to the Force, then after the first year of the force they just cease to exist for a while after losing a two-game series in the championship. (If they were to split the two games there would have been sudden death tiebreaker by the way. Both of those two games were in Sudden Death ln their closing season.
I am not sure if anyone mentioned these NHL teams or not but there was the Montreal Wanderers who had their arena burn down early in the NHLs first season and only played a few games before folding, There were also the Philadelphia Quakers who lasted one season after moving from Pittsburgh where they were the Pirates. The St Louis Eagles who lasted only one year after moving from Ottawa where they were the original Senators. I believe the Hamilton Tigers were only around 1 season after moving from Quebec where they were the Bulldogs. The Brooklyn Americans who lasted with that name only one season before folding after changing their name from the New York Americans. I feel like I am forgetting one or two teams. Not sure how long the Oakland Seals were a team. The Detroit Cougars were only around 2 years as were the Toronto Arenas and The Kansas City Scouts.
The Pilots original owners invested no money in marketing the team because they assumed there would be a honeymoon period. When the county dropped the ball on the promised Sicks stadium improvements, attendance suffered. The owners did market the team after the midpoint but declared bankruptcy after the season. The Selig group bought the team in bankruptcy court and then were allowed to move the team even after MLB promised that wouldnt happen. Thats why they were sued and had to promise the Mariners.
While living in Pittsburgh at the time, I had a chance to see a Penguins game in 1977 when they played the Barons and it was cool since the Barons only lasted two years and I have the ticket from the game too!
Should have added Kansas City Scouts (2 years then moved to Colorado) who are now the New Jersey Devils. Also, the original Ottawa Senators moved to become the St. Louis Eagles and played for one season 1934-35.
Other sort lived NHL Teams: Montreal Wanderers; dropped out after 6 games in 1917 when their arena burned down. Quebec Bulldogs 19-20; became the Hamilton Tigers, later NY Americans. Philadelphia Quakers 30-31; previously Pittsburgh Pirates.
@@saulschlapik6818 I would count Philadelphia Quakers but Montreal was technically 1903 to 1918. They only lasted 6 games in the NHL but were a team in the NHA for 7 years and other leagues before that. Quebec was from 1878 to 1919.
The Clippers had Bill Walton playing for them while in San Diego but he was hurt so often that he missed @80% of their games. He healed for o e great year with the Celtics in 1986
If you want to dive deeper, there was the Cleveland Thunderbolts of the AFL. For three games they won their first three games, first two were home games third game was a road game televised on local TV. The big crowd pumper everyone was doing in Cleveland was doing the Bushwhacker's march to the tune of AC DC's Thunderstruck. Then the owner lost the team in a poker game. And they lost the last seven games and then I don't know what happened to them.
Interestingly, both the Cleveland Barons and the San Diego Clippers had been transplanted from other markets. The Barons had started out in 1967 as the Oakland Seals, becoming the California Golden Seals in 1970. Having been a bust both on the ice and at the box office, the team moved to Cleveland in 1976. The Clippers had originally been the Buffalo Braves in 1970 and actually had modest success on the court, but scheduling issues with their arena in Buffalo eventually doomed the team; hence, the move to San Diego in 1978. Actually, when you introduced "San Diego" as your NBA choice, I thought you were going to mention the San Diego Rockets. An expansion team in 1967, the team lasted four seasons before financial woes forced their sale and move to Houston, where they have played ever since.
In 1969 spring training, the Pilots had a young kid named Lou Piniella. He was traded away to the Royals just before the season opener and went on the win Rookie of the Year. Not sure if he ever made it back to Seattle.
About the Barons, things really weren't that good for them financially by the time they ended up at Richfield Coliseum. Prior to them relocating there, they were based in Oakland from 1967 to 1976 as either the Oakland Seals or California Golden Seals. Their attendance wasn't good at all, and it also showed in their finances. On top of that, just before their arrival at the Coliseum, there was a different hockey team there for its first two seasons, that being the Cleveland Crusaders of the World Hockey Association (WHA). They tended to struggle as well, like many teams in the WHA at the time. They only averaged just over 6,000 fans a game, and with them folding in 1976, it made room for a struggling NHL franchise to move in.
The Cleveland Barons also suffered from a bad contract with the Richfield Collesium that gave them bad days to play games. But the arena's location was a huge factor. They did have some star players like Dennis Maruk who would score 60 goals with the Washington Capitals and over 300 in his career. They also had very sharp uniforms.
The Seattle Pilots were originally to start to play in 1971 along with the Kansas City Royals, but Missouri Senator Stuart Symington, who was upset about losing the Athletics to Oakland, threatened legislation to revoke the league's antitrust exemption and vowed to support lawsuits challenging the legality of the reserve clause, and wasn't goint to wait three more years unless Kansas City was awarded a new team. Seattle was not ready and was forced in.
If you want to include rival leagues, in 1973-74 the NY Golden Blades of the WHA were forced to relocate and they moved to Cherry Hill, NJ and became the Jersey Knights. The Knights lasted only 2/3 of a season for a bevy of reasons. #1, they moved to the Philadelphia area at a time when the Flyers were all the rage. #2, they were technically considered a NY team so any media was NY media meaning the games were on NY radio and TV. #3, the arena they played in is still considered the worst arena in hockey history. It was small, had chainlink fencing instead of plexiglass, the locker rooms were inadequate as the visiting team had to dress in their hotel, and the ice had a slight slope in it where the visiting team were skating uphill for 2 periods. They would eventually move to San Diego and became the Mariners. Oh, the reason why the team was renamed was because the Golden Blades uniforms were locked away as the team owned money to MSG so they resurrected the NY Raiders uniforms and replaced the Raiders logo with a Knights chess piece logo they found at a local store.
What's your source on the stadium being unused from 1964-1968 before the Pilots came on? I grew up in Seattle and attended many minor league games, a few for the Rainier's through 1965 and the Seattle Angels afterward. Heck I think I even still have a program or two from the Seattle Angels.
I read online once that the Barons may have made it if there was an arena in downtown Cleveland like there is today. Richfield was a death knell for them.
For the pilots mishap, you can blame it on the congressman from kansas city, missouri. He had a hissy fit because of the a's moving to oakland. And when the mlb awarded the al two new franchises (kc and seattle), the congressman forced them to start two years earlier (in '69 instead of '71). If that congressman was patient enough, the pilots would've probably still existed today.
The Pilots were screwed by the AL from day one. The franchise was supposed to start in ~72-73, but thanks to the pressure of a congressman from KC, they were forced to start early and the city was not close to ready.. which is why the next round, they got the Mariners… The stadium was not that bad.. By 1910 standards.. by post WWII standards, it was very AA/AAA at best.The Barons merged with the North Stars but technically the franchise was only put on hold and allowed to start again as the San Jose Sharks.. The NHL having an odd number is common.. in fact, the Year following they added the WHA teams and ran with 21 teams until the 90’s and I think the aforementioned Sharks were born (it might have been another franchise.. not looking it up..)
Good point about the NHL hold of the Seals franchise, I remember reading that the Sharks getting players from the Stars. Not sure how this would be included in legal documents however with a team merger. Holds or dormant status of franchises is more common place in minor league hockey. Usually being 1-2-3 season but one went 13 years; AHL Boston Braves ending in 1974 to resurfacing in 1987 as the Mocton Hawks.
The Seattle Pilots’ move to Milwaukee was so last minute that the team’s equipment truck left spring training in Arizona not knowing the final destination. The driver stoped in Provo, Utah to await instructions whether to take a left and head back to Seattle or a right and proceed on to Milwaukee.
I grew up in San Diego and was a Clippers fan. They had a good first season and barely missed the playoffs. Traded for an injured local hero Bill Walton and they never recovered. The ownership was a joke. There was a story from the man who did the play-by-play Ted Leitner, that the Clippers made a trade to get Alex English who was a super star and probably in the top 3 to 5 players in the league. Mr. Leitner saw the owner in the area and congratulated him for the trade. Donald Sterling, the owner asked if English was any good. Mr. Leitner said yes, he's a super star. Sterling went on to nix the trade. When Sterling announced he was moving the team to LA. It was like no one cared. Sterling was a horrible owner and a jackass of a person.
there was also the Chicago Packers basketball team, existed as such for exactly 1 season before changing their name to the Chicago Bullets before moving west to become the Baltimore Bullets and then becoming the Washington Bullets before becoming the Washington Wizards.
The 1930-31 Philadelphia Quakers played their only NHL season in the 4,000-seat Auditorium, having moved from Pittsburgh where they were known for five seasons as the Pirates, playing in the 6,500-seat (approx.) Duquesne Gardens. The franchise was dropped after that one season but both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia received NHL franchises again in 1967.
The San Diego Clippers were themselves a relocated franchise, originally known as the Buffalo Braves, whom entered the league in 1970. The Buffalo Braves might have been a better example of a team which barely existed. I'd also point out that San Diego was the original home of the Rockets, a 1967 expansion team, which relocated to Houston in 1971. The Rockets had a shorter stint in San Diego than the Clippers, so this would've made for a better example than the Clippers.
The 2012 London Rippers of the independent Frontier League should be on this list. Only lasted 2 months. The league had to create a traveling team called the Road Warriors to finish out the games for that season.
The Gund brothers owned the Barons and the North Stars I believe. Therefore the merger. Something similar happened as part of the San Jose sharks expansion. The Sharks were made up of select North Star players or something to that affect.
Yep. The Gunds wanted to move to San Jose but the NHL wouldn't let them..Instead the Gunds were awarded the Sharks and got to take a lot of North Stars minor leaguers. The North Stars were sold to Norm Green who a few years later moved them to Dallas.
The Cleveland Barons inevitably did return as the San Jose Sharks, hence the Minnesota North Stars having that strange never before seen again dispersal draft to re-supply the club first with Minnesota North Star talent. Then they had their expansion draft. What a time to never be seen again in pro sports expansion....
The Barons were a suspect operation from the get go. They turned down having radio games broadcast on WWWE which was a 50k watt blowtorch which reached places like Texas and Florida. Also, the station at the time had a very popular sports talk show hosted by the guy who Mike and the Mad Dog replaced in NY ten years later. Instead they went with a second tier radio station whose signal was hard to get past the Ohio state line
When you started in on San Diego basketball I thought you were going to talk about the San Diego Rockets who I think were a 1967-70? NBA franchise and relocated.
It was a stupid choice to build the Richfield Coliseum where they did (explanation "It is within an hour's drive of 7 million people". Trouble was it was an hour's drive for EVERY ONE of them) but it was a beautiful building. Saw quite a few Cavalier's games there. It was as comfortable as the most modern arenas of today.
Bettman refuses to admit that the Coyotes were an experiment that failed. Right now, the Coyotes top farm team in Tucson plays in an arena that is almost twice the size of the Coyote's temporary home.
There's a few other teams. The Kansas City Scouts, who became the Colorado Rockies, (coached by Don Cherry) who then became the New Jersey Devils. Also, the San Diego Rockets, who lasted one year in SD and then became the Houston Rockets. The Clippers were originally the Buffalo Braves. The Kansas City-Omaha Kings, who became the Sacramento Kings (previously the Cincinnati/Rochester Royals). Also, the Pilots might have been able to stay in Seattle had MLB accepted the judge's recommendation that the team play in Portland for two years under league ownership as the team would be brought by better funded owners and a temporary set up at the University of Washington's football stadium, ala the Dodgers playing in the LA Colosseum until Dodger Stadium was built in 1962, until a new facility was built. But instead, three days before the 1970 season started, the owners took Bud Selig's money and the team moved to Milwaukee. For the first two months of the season, they were still wearing "Pilots" uniforms.
Dallas Texans in NFL were there less than 1 year and the assets basically given to the Colts. The AFL version lasted 3 years and one an AFL championship before moving to KC, and we know what’s happened since. Buffalo Braves weren’t in the NBA long moving to San Diego and becoming the Clippers. California Golden Seals folded. KC Scouts became the Colorado Rockies who became the NJ Devils (and the rest is history there. 3 Stanley Cup Championships and 5 Eastern Conference championships later.) Many more of these are available.
I can think of four teams that “barley” existed too: the Packers, Brewers, Bucks and Badgers since they’re all based in Wisconsin where the “barley pop” flows like the Mississippi River after heavy rains 🍻
As I understand it, the Cleveland Barons merged with the Minnesota North Stars and later "de-merged" to form the present day San Jose Sharks. They then placed their AHL affiliate in Cleveland, calling them the Barons. Also, the NHL Barons began as the California Golden Seals. They played in Oakland from 1967 to 1975. Soon Oakland will have the dubious distinction of having lost all four of its major league teams.
I know it’s the UK and not America but you should read up on the MK Dons for a fascinating story of a rare relocation in British football and how controversial it was. Us Brit’s can’t stand that shit and makes the relocated team incredibly hated. The dons played Wimbledon in a cup match and I haven’t seen a more one sidedly supported FA cup game, my god I wanted MK to lose so badly,,,
Circuits and peanuts for the peasants... At the cost of billions for pretending it helps the economy... Lol the Superbowl was basically the WWE with rich sell out celebrities with their wealthy owners very weird.
Agreed, those leagues would need to become incredibly irrelevant, basically like rugby level relevance (no offense rugby) and I think those leagues would just cease to exist before getting that low. Like if the NFL died in popularity that much every franchise just agree to call it quits.@@MJP1982
The Spirit of St. Louis owners cut a deal with the NBA for a percentage of profits in perpetuity for folding the team. May not have lasted long, but the owners made bank.🤑
I would've gone with the San Diego Rockets instead of the Clippers; the Clippers at least stayed in the general vicinity, the Rockets were sold at the end of the 1971 season & were playing in Texas just a few months later. They were in the Top 10 in attendance in their final season in SD, there were arena issues.
Richfield Collisium biggest attendance The Michael Stanley band. Many times. We don't need no stinking pro sports team. Miss you Michael. I'm still glad for the white line guy over and over.
The original aba should have been included.the moved or folded regularly.rick barry.julius erving.moses malone.george Garvin. League was full of superstars.i use to love the league
I think the funny shit about Cleveland was that before their merger with Minnesota, before they moved to Cleveland, I believe they played for a few years in Oakland as the California/Bay Area Seals and they folded and moved.just terrible luck
Sick's Stadium was the least of the Siriano brothers (principal owners) problems, they were thinly financed and other part owners like Bill Daley in Cleveland were not going to bail them out. Bud "the grease" Selig swooped in like a vulture preying on the weakest of ground creatures for an easy catch. AL owners did not do their job checking on the finances for the franchise and they have share some of the blame for what happened in '69. It was Selig who relocated the franchise, not the the Siriano bros., since Milwaukee was ignored by NL for expansion in '69. Sick's Stadium WAS in use for 30 years by right up to 1968 by AAA PCL clubs. "Teams" were not building the multi's, it was local politicians and taxpayers - sweetheart deals for owners. All these facts are easily found, as 'ol Casey said "...you can look it up..." and you should have.
The Pilots were also doomed by the fact that originally expansion wasn't going to happen until 1971. However, Missouri Senator Stuart Symington didn't want Kansas City to be without a major league team for that long after the Athletics left for Oakland and he threatened MLB's antitrust exemption. The moved up timetable left Seattle with little time to get improvements done to make the stadium more suitable for temporary use and to get ownership finances in better shape. Kansas City at least had a suitable enough stadium, plans for a new one drawn up, and an owner in Ewing Kaufman who had plenty of money.
The Barrons were a relocated team. The California Golden Seals relocated to Cleveland in 1976
Twist of irony is that the Gund Brothers, who owned the California Golden Seals/Cleveland Barons and after merger, the Minnesota North Stars, wanted to bring NHL hockey back to the Bay Area, but was rejected by the Board of Governors. A compromise came when the Gunds were allowed to sell the North Stars to Howard Baldwin in exchange for the new franchise (San Jose Sharks) and be allowed to stock the roster with North Stars players. In essence the Sharks are the indirect successor to the original Golden Seals/Barons franchise.
The Clippers were originally the Buffalo Braves, featuring the huge star, Bob McAdoo.
Fun fact; former NY Met David Segui's father, Diego Segui, was the only player to play for both the Pilots and the Mariners. He also played for the A's both in Kansas City and Oakland.
San Diego also had the Rockets for the first five years before moving to Houston, San Diego despite having two failed short lived teams had some names play there such as Elvin Hayes, Rudy Tomjanovich, Pat Riley, Calvin Murphy, Bill Walton, Tom Chambers, Terry Cummings, World B Free, Kobe's father Joe Bryant
I would add the Kansas City Scouts (NHL) in here [1974-1976]
Who became the Colorado Rockies, who then became the NJ Devils.
I saw the scouts play the Blackhawks on n Chicago. A few years later,, I made friends with some folks from KC. I mentioned the Scouts, they had no idea what I was talking about.
Wilf Paiement
Go further back and you can add the St. Louis Eagles, who moved from Ottawa in 1934 and folded after the 1934-35 season.
They moved to Denver and became the Rockies and then to New Jersey
Weren't The San Diego Clippers previously the Buffalo Braves?
Yes they were for 8 seasons.
Yes. Surprised that wasn’t mentioned in the video nor any of the history of the ownership swindling the Braves out of Buffalo.
Also, the fact that the Barons were the relocated Oakland Seals/ California Golden Seals.
Important information to omit as to why these teams ended up in SanDiego & Cleveland respectively IMO.
Yes
I grew up in Boston in the 1970s, and the only Celtics game I ever went to was the Celtics against the Buffalo Braves. They had Bob McAdoo as their big star.
The San Diego Rockets lived for an even shorter time than the Clippers...
The most memorable thing about the Pilots was Jim Bouton's book "Ball Four". My Mom bought this book for her then 10 year old son not knowing that it wasn't your typical sports book.
Spot on. Ginger, you should read this book and watch the first section of the Jon Bois documentary about the Seattle Mariners, tons to learn and you’ll end up with a lot to talk about.
I read that book in the early '80s. Loved it! I played organized ball all through the '70s and '80s, as I grew up. Even as a kid, I could relate to Bouton's "ball player" stories.
Also had the coolest hats of all time, replete with 'scrambled eggs' on the visor.
Not sure why the NHL having an odd number of teams is considered interesting. They had 21 teams from 1979 until 1991, when the San Jose Sharks were accepted into the league.
Barley 🌾 😂 great video bro as always
Do better research on the Barons. They moved from Oakland (Seals aka California Golden) and were a franchise there as part of the NHL 6 team expansion in 1967. You give the impression that they were only a franchise for two seasons. They pretty much had the same roster as their final season in Oakland.
Also, the San Diego Clippers were the Buffalo Braves for their first 8 seasons.
Also missed that the legal combination of the Minnesota North Stars franchise was undone when San Jose came into the league. So full circle there.
You should have done The Toronto Huskies for Basketball They played the first NBA game in Toronto and lasted for 1 year
I remember the Seattle Pilots for one reason. Joe Sparma, a starting pitcher for my team, the Detroit Tigers, carried a no-hitter against them into the ninth inning. He gave up a hit and that was the end of that but the game was carried by the local station and would have been the first no-hitter I had seen, on TV or anywhere. Joe was known for being wild and I don't recall how many walks he gave up but he came close.
Staying with the Detroit theme, who could forget the Detroit Wheels of the old WFL. They were bad even by WFL standards of the day. They were so bad the group of 32 owners gave up about midway through their one season in 1974 and the league took them over, charging each other franchise $60,000 to cover their expenses. They finally folded with six games remaining and held a draft for any team that wanted any of the players. I think maybe six guys got picked up by the other clubs. Interestingly, Mike Illitch, Little Caesar pizza magnate and future owner of the Red Wings and Tigers was part of the original Wheels ownership group, his first foray into professional sports. One thing, the Wheels made people feel a little bit better about the Lions. Not much, but a little.
I was at that game. Yes it was the Pilots' only national telecast and that was a big deal in Seattle. Despite the almost no hitter, I remember that through walks and errors the came was still competitive.
On another note, the Pilots' leadoff man Tommy Harper was known for stealing bases. After making it to first, presumably on a walk, in the first inning, he tried to steal second and was thrown out by Bill Freehan.
@@johnwhite5485 You were there??? That's awesome! That Tiger team was the team of my youth, the team that made me fall in love with the game. You're the first person I have, well kinda met, who remembers that game. Not even my friends do. Way cool! Thanks for getting back to me. Old Joe was a bit on the wild side. Former starting QB for the OSU Buckeye's, but we didn't hold that against him once he was a Tiger. He started the pennant clinching game in 68, but he didn't get along with the manager Mayo Smith so Smith basically benched him for the World Series that year. He died young, heart problems. Sad end really. But he did get a ring. The good old Pilots. I imagine I had a few baseball cards from that team, I bought a lot of packs trying to complete my Tiger collection as well as the collectables from the 68 Series. Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA, Denny McClain's 31-6 record, Mickey Lolich pitching three complete games in the Series, beating Gibson in Game 7, the year of the pitcher. Way cool.
@@itinerantpatriot1196
I appreciate your enthusiastic response. I grew up not far from that stadium and my parents started taking me to minor league games at that Sicks, the Raniers, first and later the Angels. The stadium was named for Emil Sick, owner the the minor league team and the Ranier Brewing Company. A Lowe's now occupies that parcel of land; they have home plate marked near the entrance.
I remember in the prior year, 1968 my father was pulling for the Tigers in the World Series, which, as I assume that you are well aware that at they won four games to three.
Looked up Sparma on Wikipedia, Smith wasn't the only with whom he had issues; he didn't get along with Woody Hayes either.
@@johnwhite5485 Indeed I do. Mickey Lolich jumping into Bill Freehan's arm at the end, even Gibson striking out 17 of the local heroes in Game 1. The riots of 67 did a number on the city, the Tigers brought us together in 68. What a time. I remember thinking at the time that Seattle got jobbed after only one season. I was happy when you got the Mariners. Ken Griffey Jr. What a stud. He went off on Sparky Anderson in 1990 for intentionally walking him one series damn near every time he came to the plate. They kissed and made up later. Sparky had a real soft-spot for the kid, considering he was always hanging around the clubhouse of the Big Red Machine. Best of luck this season, unless it's against us.
The Pilots were not forced to move. They were bought by Bud Selig during the 1970 spring training and moved to Milwaukee for the 1970 season.
With the horrid attendance that Seattle had it drove them to bankruptcy.
Fun fact - the Brewers were supposed to be red white and blue but they obviously didn’t get jerseys in time for the 70 season they took the old pilots jerseys and ripped off the logos and put Milwaukee on it.
Though they were forced to start several years early in 1969 because of Kansas City so they couldn't get the domed stadium ready in time
@@principalmcvicker6530They were going to start in '71 which would have given them enough time to fix up Sick's Stadium and they already had the Kingdome plans ready.
The Pilots attendance was better than four other MLB teams, including one of the other expansion teams. The principal owner of the Pilots was Dewey Soriano, who did not have enough money to operate an MLB franchise.
@@principalmcvicker6530 You can't blame Kansas City and Missouri for all the problems. If the Pilots had started playing in 1971, they still would have had to play at Sick's. Local interests were fighting over the location of the Kingdome until late 1971 and the stadium wasn't complete until1 1976. Could they have fixed up Sick's better with more time? Not sure. It wasn't just adding more seating. There were water pressure - fine with 3,000 people in the stands, not so good with 10,000 or more - and other plumbing issues.
There was a local buyer for the team, Fred Danz, but the league capitulated to Selig who was bitter over the Braves leaving Milwaukee and him having been passed up for a replacement expansion team, by denying the sale to Danz.
Another candidate for this category:
Kansas City-Omaha Kings.
Yes, the NBA franchise known as the Kings had 2 home cities for 3 seasons: 1972-73 through 1974-75.
In 1972 the Cincinnati Royals relocated to Kansas City & Omaha, changing their name to the Kings. For 3 seasons they played one half of their home games at Omaha Civic Auditorium.
Once the Kings made the decision to play all of their home games in Kansas City starting with the 1975-76 season, Omaha has been without an NBA franchise. But Omaha felt sweet revenge when the Kings high tailed it out of Kansas City and moved to Sacramento in 1985.
The team started as the Rochester Royals.
so i turned 18 a couple months after the california golden seals season. my bud, his dad and i layed our 100 dollar season ticket deposit to the new organization as they told us it'll be only up hill starting next year. we were stoked, on that last game we won scoring a goal on the last second or two of the final period.
one week later in the middle of the night the owner packed up the box trucks and moved across country to cleveland. we were pissed, we actually were starting to fill the oakland collisium other than when dave schultz and flyers came to town.
everyone was shocked and mad for sure. i hoped they would fail and moved back, well i was half right lol.
That was an interesting video, though I'm wondering why the host included the San Diego Clippers, who lasted for six years in that city, but omitted the San Diego Rockets, who only lasted four seasons (1967-71), making them more of a "flash-in-the-pan," in that respect. Also, the Kansas City Scouts lasted a mere two seasons in the NHL (1974-76), before decamping for Colorado, where they became the Rockies for six years before ending up as the New Jersey Devils in 1982. Speaking of Kansas City, the NBA's Kings franchise was there for a respectable thirteen seasons, but for the first three of those seasons, they were officially the "Kansas City-Omaha Kings," playing a certain number of games in Nebraska each year. Also, when speaking of the Seattle Pilots in the first part of the video, I was unfamiliar with the name of their home stadium, and so I thought he was saying that the Pilots had "a sick stadium" to play in, i.e., a stadium that wasn't well. I looked it up and was surprised that it was actually "Sick's Stadium," which may have been the only stadium at that time with an apostrophe. And speaking of "stadium," I love the way the host says the word "stadium": I don't think I've ever heard that first syllable stretched out for quite that length: "Staaaaaadium." But overall, a fun blast from the past.
I once sat in one of those boxes at the Richfield Coliseum for a Cavs game. (That's what they were called back then.) I got the tickect from a friend that couldn't go to his company's box. It was kind of like a luxury box. You could order concessions from your seat and have them delivered. Also, at halftime, they distributed first half statistics sheets. It was an interesting perspective to watch a game.
The main problem with the coliseum was the location. It was right off an exit of I-271 but there was literally nothing else there for miles other than residences. But, it was 20 miles south of the current home of Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse in downtown Cleveland. It was actually closer to Akron (15 miles). I like it as I lived in Cuyahoga Falls at the time. The attendance in those years was pretty good despite the location as they were in one of their heydays. It was the Brad Daughrety/Mark Price era which unfortunately coincided with Michael Jordan's prime. MJ was routinely the killer of CAVS dreams with last second buckets just like John Elway was for the Browns.
So, the location was definitely a drawback for new franchises. A couple of indoor soccer and Arena Football team also struggled with attendance and didn't last long either .
Actually got a couple stories about the Cleveland Force and the Cleveland Crunch in the Colosseum.
The Cleveland force was around for 10 years and then quit after their first championship series (which they lost).
Then after 1 year wait, they got the expansion Cleveland Crunch. The reason why they moved was because the AHL Muskegon lumberjacks were moving in Cleveland in the MISL folded in the 91-92 year. So all the remaining teams had to choose where they wanted to go into the NPSL or the CISL. Cleveland actually has support for the indoor soccer team unfortunately outside of Cleveland no one's heard of, and because no one on the National Sports talk talked about it no one locally talks about it either except the station that carries them.
Then the Crunch moved to the Convocation Center, because the Lumberjacks moved in. They won 3 championships in 94, 96, and 99.
Does the cisl and npsl reformed back into the MISL, the original owner bought it back and change the name back to the Force, then after the first year of the force they just cease to exist for a while after losing a two-game series in the championship. (If they were to split the two games there would have been sudden death tiebreaker by the way. Both of those two games were in Sudden Death ln their closing season.
I guess you could say these were real beer league teams lol (hint: go back and re-read the title)
Some players on those teams had great hops.
Sicks Stadium was used through the 1968 season! Seattle tried to pull off what Kansas City did for the Athletics and it didn’t work.
I am not sure if anyone mentioned these NHL teams or not but there was the Montreal Wanderers who had their arena burn down early in the NHLs first season and only played a few games before folding, There were also the Philadelphia Quakers who lasted one season after moving from Pittsburgh where they were the Pirates. The St Louis Eagles who lasted only one year after moving from Ottawa where they were the original Senators. I believe the Hamilton Tigers were only around 1 season after moving from Quebec where they were the Bulldogs. The Brooklyn Americans who lasted with that name only one season before folding after changing their name from the New York Americans. I feel like I am forgetting one or two teams. Not sure how long the Oakland Seals were a team. The Detroit Cougars were only around 2 years as were the Toronto Arenas and The Kansas City Scouts.
Wow! You know about a lot of defunct teams 😮 Interesting information. Thanks
The San Diego/ L A Clippers were originally the Buffalo Braves from 1970 to 1978
The Pilots original owners invested no money in marketing the team because they assumed there would be a honeymoon period. When the county dropped the ball on the promised Sicks stadium improvements, attendance suffered. The owners did market the team after the midpoint but declared bankruptcy after the season. The Selig group bought the team in bankruptcy court and then were allowed to move the team even after MLB promised that wouldnt happen. Thats why they were sued and had to promise the Mariners.
How come Montreal could get Jarry Park up to standards but Seattle couldn't get Sick's Stadium there?
While living in Pittsburgh at the time, I had a chance to see a Penguins game in 1977 when they played the Barons and it was cool since the Barons only lasted two years and I have the ticket from the game too!
Should have added Kansas City Scouts (2 years then moved to Colorado) who are now the New Jersey Devils.
Also, the original Ottawa Senators moved to become the St. Louis Eagles and played for one season 1934-35.
Other sort lived NHL Teams: Montreal Wanderers; dropped out after 6 games in 1917 when their arena burned down. Quebec Bulldogs 19-20; became the Hamilton Tigers, later NY Americans. Philadelphia Quakers 30-31; previously Pittsburgh Pirates.
@@saulschlapik6818 I would count Philadelphia Quakers but Montreal was technically 1903 to 1918. They only lasted 6 games in the NHL but were a team in the NHA for 7 years and other leagues before that.
Quebec was from 1878 to 1919.
The Clippers had Bill Walton playing for them while in San Diego but he was hurt so often that he missed @80% of their games. He healed for o e great year with the Celtics in 1986
If you want to dive deeper, there was the Cleveland Thunderbolts of the
AFL. For three games they won their first three games, first two were home games third game was a road game televised on local TV. The big crowd pumper everyone was doing in Cleveland was doing the Bushwhacker's march to the tune of AC DC's Thunderstruck.
Then the owner lost the team in a poker game. And they lost the last seven games and then I don't know what happened to them.
I blame KC for the Pilots issues. It was their fault. they wanted to start in 69 instead of 71.
Interestingly, both the Cleveland Barons and the San Diego Clippers had been transplanted from other markets. The Barons had started out in 1967 as the Oakland Seals, becoming the California Golden Seals in 1970. Having been a bust both on the ice and at the box office, the team moved to Cleveland in 1976. The Clippers had originally been the Buffalo Braves in 1970 and actually had modest success on the court, but scheduling issues with their arena in Buffalo eventually doomed the team; hence, the move to San Diego in 1978.
Actually, when you introduced "San Diego" as your NBA choice, I thought you were going to mention the San Diego Rockets. An expansion team in 1967, the team lasted four seasons before financial woes forced their sale and move to Houston, where they have played ever since.
I went to the last game of the barons. It was wild and out of control.
In 1969 spring training, the Pilots had a young kid named Lou Piniella. He was traded away to the Royals just before the season opener and went on the win Rookie of the Year. Not sure if he ever made it back to Seattle.
About the Barons, things really weren't that good for them financially by the time they ended up at Richfield Coliseum. Prior to them relocating there, they were based in Oakland from 1967 to 1976 as either the Oakland Seals or California Golden Seals. Their attendance wasn't good at all, and it also showed in their finances.
On top of that, just before their arrival at the Coliseum, there was a different hockey team there for its first two seasons, that being the Cleveland Crusaders of the World Hockey Association (WHA). They tended to struggle as well, like many teams in the WHA at the time. They only averaged just over 6,000 fans a game, and with them folding in 1976, it made room for a struggling NHL franchise to move in.
San Diego Conquistadors of the ABA early mid 1970’s. The last team Wilt Chamberlain played for.
Coached there but they would not let him play via a potential lawsuit from the LA Lakers.
How about the ABA's Baltimore Claws? They played three preseason games then ran out of money and folded before the season started.
The ABA could have an entire video on failed franchises.
The Cleveland Barons also suffered from a bad contract with the Richfield Collesium that gave them bad days to play games. But the arena's location was a huge factor. They did have some star players like Dennis Maruk who would score 60 goals with the Washington Capitals and over 300 in his career. They also had very sharp uniforms.
Barley is a cereal, a member of the grass family with edible grains
Well, couldn't you say the same thing about the musical duo Hall and Oats?
As short-lived as the Clippers were in SD, Rockets were out of there even faster.
You've forgot the Chicago Stags of the NBA
NHL had 21 teams from 79-91 after the surviving WHA teams switched to the NHL.
The Seattle Pilots were originally to start to play in 1971 along with the Kansas City Royals, but Missouri Senator Stuart Symington, who was upset about losing the Athletics to Oakland, threatened legislation to revoke the league's antitrust exemption and vowed to support lawsuits challenging the legality of the reserve clause, and wasn't goint to wait three more years unless Kansas City was awarded a new team. Seattle was not ready and was forced in.
If you want to include rival leagues, in 1973-74 the NY Golden Blades of the WHA were forced to relocate and they moved to Cherry Hill, NJ and became the Jersey Knights. The Knights lasted only 2/3 of a season for a bevy of reasons. #1, they moved to the Philadelphia area at a time when the Flyers were all the rage. #2, they were technically considered a NY team so any media was NY media meaning the games were on NY radio and TV. #3, the arena they played in is still considered the worst arena in hockey history. It was small, had chainlink fencing instead of plexiglass, the locker rooms were inadequate as the visiting team had to dress in their hotel, and the ice had a slight slope in it where the visiting team were skating uphill for 2 periods. They would eventually move to San Diego and became the Mariners. Oh, the reason why the team was renamed was because the Golden Blades uniforms were locked away as the team owned money to MSG so they resurrected the NY Raiders uniforms and replaced the Raiders logo with a Knights chess piece logo they found at a local store.
What's your source on the stadium being unused from 1964-1968 before the Pilots came on? I grew up in Seattle and attended many minor league games, a few for the Rainier's through 1965 and the Seattle Angels afterward. Heck I think I even still have a program or two from the Seattle Angels.
I read online once that the Barons may have made it if there was an arena in downtown Cleveland like there is today. Richfield was a death knell for them.
How about the original Baltimore Colts, AAFC 1947-49, NFL 1950?
The ABA Anaheim Amigos lasted a single season 1967-68) before moving to LA as the Stars, then a few years later they moved to Salt Lake City.
For the pilots mishap, you can blame it on the congressman from kansas city, missouri. He had a hissy fit because of the a's moving to oakland. And when the mlb awarded the al two new franchises (kc and seattle), the congressman forced them to start two years earlier (in '69 instead of '71). If that congressman was patient enough, the pilots would've probably still existed today.
The Pilots were screwed by the AL from day one. The franchise was supposed to start in ~72-73, but thanks to the pressure of a congressman from KC, they were forced to start early and the city was not close to ready.. which is why the next round, they got the Mariners… The stadium was not that bad.. By 1910 standards.. by post WWII standards, it was very AA/AAA at best.The Barons merged with the North Stars but technically the franchise was only put on hold and allowed to start again as the San Jose Sharks.. The NHL having an odd number is common.. in fact, the Year following they added the WHA teams and ran with 21 teams until the 90’s and I think the aforementioned Sharks were born (it might have been another franchise.. not looking it up..)
Good point about the NHL hold of the Seals franchise, I remember reading that the Sharks getting players from the Stars. Not sure how this would be included in legal documents however with a team merger. Holds or dormant status of franchises is more common place in minor league hockey. Usually being 1-2-3 season but one went 13 years; AHL Boston Braves ending in 1974 to resurfacing in 1987 as the Mocton Hawks.
The Seattle Pilots’ move to Milwaukee was so last minute that the team’s equipment truck left spring training in Arizona not knowing the final destination. The driver stoped in Provo, Utah to await instructions whether to take a left and head back to Seattle or a right and proceed on to Milwaukee.
thats why the mls is growing so fast cause they make sure your stadium situation is set in stone
Both the Milwaukee brewers and the Seattle mariners have the right to wear Seattle pilots throwback uniforms.
I grew up in San Diego and was a Clippers fan. They had a good first season and barely missed the playoffs. Traded for an injured local hero Bill Walton and they never recovered. The ownership was a joke. There was a story from the man who did the play-by-play Ted Leitner, that the Clippers made a trade to get Alex English who was a super star and probably in the top 3 to 5 players in the league. Mr. Leitner saw the owner in the area and congratulated him for the trade. Donald Sterling, the owner asked if English was any good. Mr. Leitner said yes, he's a super star. Sterling went on to nix the trade.
When Sterling announced he was moving the team to LA. It was like no one cared. Sterling was a horrible owner and a jackass of a person.
Barley or barely? ;)
That is the eternal question.
There was also the Kansas City Scouts and the Colorado Rockies.
there was also the Chicago Packers basketball team, existed as such for exactly 1 season before changing their name to the Chicago Bullets before moving west to become the Baltimore Bullets and then becoming the Washington Bullets before becoming the Washington Wizards.
The 1930-31 Philadelphia Quakers played their only NHL season in the 4,000-seat Auditorium, having moved from Pittsburgh where they were known for five seasons as the Pirates, playing in the 6,500-seat (approx.) Duquesne Gardens. The franchise was dropped after that one season but both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia received NHL franchises again in 1967.
The San Diego Clippers were themselves a relocated franchise, originally known as the Buffalo Braves, whom entered the league in 1970. The Buffalo Braves might have been a better example of a team which barely existed. I'd also point out that San Diego was the original home of the Rockets, a 1967 expansion team, which relocated to Houston in 1971. The Rockets had a shorter stint in San Diego than the Clippers, so this would've made for a better example than the Clippers.
And to think, 30 years later, san diego loses the Chargers to Los Angeles.
The 2012 London Rippers of the independent Frontier League should be on this list. Only lasted 2 months. The league had to create a traveling team called the Road Warriors to finish out the games for that season.
I can imagine the road trips. Where do you go after London? Jerusalem? Tokyo? Sydney?
The original Dallas Texans lasted one season (1952). Second version only 3 years before moving to Kansas City.
That original Texans team wound up merging with the Baltimore Colts I believe. Last NFL team to completely fail.
@@MichaelJW72 The Texans folded and the new Colts purchased their assets. The Lakers originated the same way.
You want barely.....1975-76 Baltimore Claws of the ABA ....3 preseason games then folded lol
The Gund brothers owned the Barons and the North Stars I believe. Therefore the merger. Something similar happened as part of the San Jose sharks expansion. The Sharks were made up of select North Star players or something to that affect.
Yep. The Gunds wanted to move to San Jose but the NHL wouldn't let them..Instead the Gunds were awarded the Sharks and got to take a lot of North Stars minor leaguers. The North Stars were sold to Norm Green who a few years later moved them to Dallas.
The Cleveland Barons inevitably did return as the San Jose Sharks, hence the Minnesota North Stars having that strange never before seen again dispersal draft to re-supply the club first with Minnesota North Star talent. Then they had their expansion draft. What a time to never be seen again in pro sports expansion....
The Barons were a suspect operation from the get go. They turned down having radio games broadcast on WWWE which was a 50k watt blowtorch which reached places like Texas and Florida. Also, the station at the time had a very popular sports talk show hosted by the guy who Mike and the Mad Dog replaced in NY ten years later. Instead they went with a second tier radio station whose signal was hard to get past the Ohio state line
When you started in on San Diego basketball I thought you were going to talk about the San Diego Rockets who I think were a 1967-70? NBA franchise and relocated.
The Atlanta Hawks were the Milwaukee Hawks from 1951-1955 and were the St. Louis Hawks from 1955-1968 before moving to Atlanta.
It was a stupid choice to build the Richfield Coliseum where they did (explanation "It is within an hour's drive of 7 million people". Trouble was it was an hour's drive for EVERY ONE of them) but it was a beautiful building. Saw quite a few Cavalier's games there. It was as comfortable as the most modern arenas of today.
kc scouts lasted only two years before nhl moved scouts to denver. az. yotes the modern cali golden seals need the same fate-to just die.
Bettman refuses to admit that the Coyotes were an experiment that failed. Right now, the Coyotes top farm team in Tucson plays in an arena that is almost twice the size of the Coyote's temporary home.
@@tygrkhat4087 bettman sucks and is a jakk off. too bad kc scouts didn't get 100,000 chances like yotes did.
There's a few other teams. The Kansas City Scouts, who became the Colorado Rockies, (coached by Don Cherry) who then became the New Jersey Devils. Also, the San Diego Rockets, who lasted one year in SD and then became the Houston Rockets. The Clippers were originally the Buffalo Braves. The Kansas City-Omaha Kings, who became the Sacramento Kings (previously the Cincinnati/Rochester Royals). Also, the Pilots might have been able to stay in Seattle had MLB accepted the judge's recommendation that the team play in Portland for two years under league ownership as the team would be brought by better funded owners and a temporary set up at the University of Washington's football stadium, ala the Dodgers playing in the LA Colosseum until Dodger Stadium was built in 1962, until a new facility was built. But instead, three days before the 1970 season started, the owners took Bud Selig's money and the team moved to Milwaukee. For the first two months of the season, they were still wearing "Pilots" uniforms.
People bought season tickets to the Pilots' games only to find out on opening day that their seats did not yet exist.
Dallas Texans in NFL were there less than 1 year and the assets basically given to the Colts. The AFL version lasted 3 years and one an AFL championship before moving to KC, and we know what’s happened since. Buffalo Braves weren’t in the NBA long moving to San Diego and becoming the Clippers. California Golden Seals folded. KC Scouts became the Colorado Rockies who became the NJ Devils (and the rest is history there. 3 Stanley Cup Championships and 5 Eastern Conference championships later.) Many more of these are available.
Won the AFL (not “one”. My apologies)
I can think of four teams that “barley” existed too: the Packers, Brewers, Bucks and Badgers since they’re all based in Wisconsin where the “barley pop” flows like the Mississippi River after heavy rains 🍻
As I understand it, the Cleveland Barons merged with the Minnesota North Stars and later "de-merged" to form the present day San Jose Sharks. They then placed their AHL affiliate in Cleveland, calling them the Barons.
Also, the NHL Barons began as the California Golden Seals. They played in Oakland from 1967 to 1975. Soon Oakland will have the dubious distinction of having lost all four of its major league teams.
Wrong dude
The Clippers were the Bullalo Braves before San Diego.
If a team barley existed...where are the teams that wheat existed, or hops existed...?
I know it’s the UK and not America but you should read up on the MK Dons for a fascinating story of a rare relocation in British football and how controversial it was. Us Brit’s can’t stand that shit and makes the relocated team incredibly hated. The dons played Wimbledon in a cup match and I haven’t seen a more one sidedly supported FA cup game, my god I wanted MK to lose so badly,,,
I hope I live long enough to see an NFL, NBA, or MLB team fold. Tho I'm young so I expect the NFL to die before I do.
Circuits and peanuts for the peasants... At the cost of billions for pretending it helps the economy... Lol the Superbowl was basically the WWE with rich sell out celebrities with their wealthy owners very weird.
Agreed, those leagues would need to become incredibly irrelevant, basically like rugby level relevance (no offense rugby) and I think those leagues would just cease to exist before getting that low. Like if the NFL died in popularity that much every franchise just agree to call it quits.@@MJP1982
you may see it. keep an eye on az. yotes a pathetic franchise that needs to cease to exist.
No chance they fold, they'll move to Houston if anything.@@stevenbauer4799
@@MJP1982I am disgusted how you are trying to deflect from the original comments....
The San Jose Sharks was basically created as a North Stars/Seals/Barons de-merger
Wrong
Hell, if it wasn’t for Ray Kroc buying the team, at the last minute, in 1972…San Diego would’ve lost the Padres to Washington DC
No New Jersey Americans?
They've got their theme song right here on YT.
The Pittsburgh Pipers, Kentucky Colonels and other ABA franchises that weren't incorporated into the NBA would be examples, too.
The Spirit of St. Louis owners cut a deal with the NBA for a percentage of profits in perpetuity for folding the team. May not have lasted long, but the owners made bank.🤑
I like to mention the New Orleans Jazz. They lasted five years before moving to Salt Lake City and becoming the Utah Jazz
Before Houston had the Astros, there was the Colt 45s
Same franchise, changed their name when the Astrodome opened in 1965.
@@saulschlapik6818 I know that, just like the Pilots became the Brewers
I would've gone with the San Diego Rockets instead of the Clippers; the Clippers at least stayed in the general vicinity, the Rockets were sold at the end of the 1971 season & were playing in Texas just a few months later. They were in the Top 10 in attendance in their final season in SD, there were arena issues.
Richfield Collisium biggest attendance The Michael Stanley band. Many times. We don't need no stinking pro sports team. Miss you Michael. I'm still glad for the white line guy over and over.
What about the Kansas City Scouts/ Colorado Rockies hockey club? They wound up in New Jersey.
Dude. Do some real research. Especially when it came to the Seattle Pilots!
Not true about the Barons - yes they only lasted 2 seasons but the were the Oakland Seals/California Golden Seals for 9 years prior
The Los Angeles Chargers of the AFL played only one season at LA and then moved to San Diego.
The original aba should have been included.the moved or folded regularly.rick barry.julius erving.moses malone.george Garvin. League was full of superstars.i use to love the league
Barely, rather than barley.
All right the seattle pilots made it on the list.
You forgot the Kansas City Scouts of the NHL 1974-1976
Barley? Not a grain of truth to this!
I was told there would be barley... where's the barley?
I think the funny shit about Cleveland was that before their merger with Minnesota, before they moved to Cleveland, I believe they played for a few years in Oakland as the California/Bay Area Seals and they folded and moved.just terrible luck
The NBA should come back to San Diego one day. 😀👍🏀
This video is unbeerevable
Barley???
Must have meant BARELY... 🤣🤣🤣
This title is wheat
Sick's Stadium was the least of the Siriano brothers (principal owners) problems, they were thinly financed and other part owners like Bill Daley in
Cleveland were not going to bail them out. Bud "the grease" Selig swooped in like a vulture preying on the weakest of ground creatures for an easy catch.
AL owners did not do their job checking on the finances for the franchise and they have share some of the blame for what happened in '69.
It was Selig who relocated the franchise, not the the Siriano bros., since Milwaukee was ignored by NL for expansion in '69.
Sick's Stadium WAS in use for 30 years by right up to 1968 by AAA PCL clubs.
"Teams" were not building the multi's, it was local politicians and taxpayers - sweetheart deals for owners.
All these facts are easily found, as 'ol Casey said "...you can look it up..." and you should have.