Thanks :) When I was making my previous video it was becoming too long, so I broke it up into three distinct video instead. Which is why a lot of the examples are from the same games as the previous video ^^.
This is extremely helpful with understanding how players get confused. I'm wondering if "Hoa" is doing that purposely for its puzzle aspect. I haven't played it but just noticed they categorize themselves as puzzle platformer. I do agree that this is an uncomfortable way to do this type type of game. I know I want to try demos of the games showcased to get a better feel of their atmosphere. Thank you for shedding some light on this topic.
Yes I want to do it, but it will probably take quite a bit of time sadly and I can't say for sure when I'll actually have time to start making videos on the topic.
@@Nonsensical2D cool. I like how you break down aspects behind design but there seems to be a lot more done for playformers than top down games, maybe because of ori, hollow knight and gris being so special. I wonder if there is any top down game that stans out as much as those platformers
Haha, the truth is that there are plenty of top down games I'd like to analyze and that I really like, hades, zelda, enter the gungeon, cult of the lamb (to be fair i think this is set up in 3d, but quite a bit of 2d assets), just to name a few. The reason I have done breakdowns of platformers is because I work with it quite a bit myself and have code set up for it, so there would be a moderate amount of pre-work in order to cover top down content well (but I do think there are a lot of games and interesting things to cover)
It's not anything released, It's just using my own game art to illustrate examples. I intend to release something eventually but for now it is just used for my videos ^^
A similar but opposite problem I have with the dropping-down ledges thing. As a veteran metroidvania/platformer player I don't really think of this as something that I can do - but rather I automatically assume I can (the tutorial is of course necessary for new players), but same games also have certain platforms that you *can't* drop down and sometimes the platforms you can't drop down are not visually distinct enough from those you can, so you have to try dropping down the platform to know if you can. This annoys me.
Ye for sure, I could have used even more examples but was afraid I would be talking about it too much. But I think Ori and Blasphemous have a few issues with this, there are plenty of platforms that look like you can jump down, but you cant, and platforms that look like you can't, but you can. There are also quite a few platforms in both games that are extremely clear. I just think all of it is tricky thing to deal with, especially for those games where the camera isn't orthogonal to the platforms (because it can be difficult to make the platforms look thin when looking at them from slightly above). Games like dead cells/guacamelee are always really clear in my opinion.
@@Nonsensical2D Oh yeah, absolutely understand that. Guacamelee! really is a masterpiece (as is the sequel). You don't see that often. Ori can be especially confusing during the chase/stealth sequences (especially in Will of the Wisps), it's often really unclear what's an object you can hide behind or not (the one in the desert is especially bad). Blasphemous is mostly fine, the problem is since everything kills you back to checkpoint they really needed all the visual communication to be on point, and it isn't always (still a good game).
I liked this video. I liked how you trashed on those pretentious looking games, too. Making games is all about a balance between all the disciplines it takes to make them. That said, I think celeste, jump king and shovel knight are some of the crappiest looking "games" ever made, and no one should ever take any inspiration from them.
@@Rossilaz58 ok :) that kind of makes sense. Assuming that is the question, @Nemo, I guess the answer is that being the right amount of emotive is a tricky thing to get right and I'm not quite there yet.
Your channel is a gold nugget I have to say, very appreciative of what you're uploading
Thanks for the videos explaining good art for games. It will most certainly help me with my game as I develop it.
Great video as always!
Thanks, I appreciate it!
another great video! love the examples from well known games and many great insights!
Thanks :) When I was making my previous video it was becoming too long, so I broke it up into three distinct video instead. Which is why a lot of the examples are from the same games as the previous video ^^.
Thank you for sharing great knowledge.
This is extremely helpful with understanding how players get confused. I'm wondering if "Hoa" is doing that purposely for its puzzle aspect. I haven't played it but just noticed they categorize themselves as puzzle platformer. I do agree that this is an uncomfortable way to do this type type of game. I know I want to try demos of the games showcased to get a better feel of their atmosphere. Thank you for shedding some light on this topic.
Will you make a video about top down 2d design?
Yes I want to do it, but it will probably take quite a bit of time sadly and I can't say for sure when I'll actually have time to start making videos on the topic.
@@Nonsensical2D cool. I like how you break down aspects behind design but there seems to be a lot more done for playformers than top down games, maybe because of ori, hollow knight and gris being so special. I wonder if there is any top down game that stans out as much as those platformers
Haha, the truth is that there are plenty of top down games I'd like to analyze and that I really like, hades, zelda, enter the gungeon, cult of the lamb (to be fair i think this is set up in 3d, but quite a bit of 2d assets), just to name a few. The reason I have done breakdowns of platformers is because I work with it quite a bit myself and have code set up for it, so there would be a moderate amount of pre-work in order to cover top down content well (but I do think there are a lot of games and interesting things to cover)
What is the name of the game you first showed with the door that says push?
It's not anything released, It's just using my own game art to illustrate examples. I intend to release something eventually but for now it is just used for my videos ^^
A similar but opposite problem I have with the dropping-down ledges thing. As a veteran metroidvania/platformer player I don't really think of this as something that I can do - but rather I automatically assume I can (the tutorial is of course necessary for new players), but same games also have certain platforms that you *can't* drop down and sometimes the platforms you can't drop down are not visually distinct enough from those you can, so you have to try dropping down the platform to know if you can. This annoys me.
Ye for sure, I could have used even more examples but was afraid I would be talking about it too much. But I think Ori and Blasphemous have a few issues with this, there are plenty of platforms that look like you can jump down, but you cant, and platforms that look like you can't, but you can. There are also quite a few platforms in both games that are extremely clear. I just think all of it is tricky thing to deal with, especially for those games where the camera isn't orthogonal to the platforms (because it can be difficult to make the platforms look thin when looking at them from slightly above). Games like dead cells/guacamelee are always really clear in my opinion.
@@Nonsensical2D Oh yeah, absolutely understand that. Guacamelee! really is a masterpiece (as is the sequel). You don't see that often. Ori can be especially confusing during the chase/stealth sequences (especially in Will of the Wisps), it's often really unclear what's an object you can hide behind or not (the one in the desert is especially bad). Blasphemous is mostly fine, the problem is since everything kills you back to checkpoint they really needed all the visual communication to be on point, and it isn't always (still a good game).
I liked this video. I liked how you trashed on those pretentious looking games, too.
Making games is all about a balance between all the disciplines it takes to make them.
That said, I think celeste, jump king and shovel knight are some of the crappiest looking "games" ever made, and no one should ever take any inspiration from them.
Why are you soulless? T_T
Not sure I understand what you mean :S
@@Nonsensical2D I think they mean you are very monotonous
@@Rossilaz58 ok :) that kind of makes sense. Assuming that is the question, @Nemo, I guess the answer is that being the right amount of emotive is a tricky thing to get right and I'm not quite there yet.