Good question. 343 killed halo not us. 343 gave us unfinished games twice, lied about what was coming on launch only to delay it so much it got removed and have the audacity to say our expectations are too high, removed playable elites, sabotage the games with incompetence, ignoring what we want to see in games and killing off characters in book plus finishing the story the game started in a book. No one wanted this.
Indeed but for this guy t's always the community's fault. He says the same for his favourite game: Rainbow Six Siege. It's always the monkey fans fault for this guy. Baffling.
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@@MusicaX79so, you just ignoring the fanbase has been toxic and against every halo game at release since AT LEAST Halo 2? Right buddy, cus the fanbase are a buncha saints and it’s only the developers fault.
@@swoops7687 I've been playing since Halo 2. There's a huge difference between Bungie's balance changes and 343 changing Halo's core identity to chase Call of Duty players. They rewrote the story for drama, called fans toxic for fair criticism, and abandoned what made Halo special. Bungie improved the game for actual Halo fans. The original creators (Jones, Staten, O'Donnell) built something special - 343 just isn't the same. Can't blame players for leaving when the developers openly reject their old fanbase. The game being unfun isn't toxic behavior, it's just reality.
The biggest killer was changing who multiplayer was designed for. In the Bungie era, multiplayer was a party experience, made for friends and fun. Since 343 took charge, multiplayer was aimed towards competitive play, so everything became much more boring in order to ensure a tiny minority of the players had a 'balanced experience'.
havent watched the video yet, but this comment is something that has always stuck out to me. memories of what halo *actually* was in 2001-2010: party-game FPS, co-op FPS, epic campaign a game where any level of skill could hop on and contribute, have fun, and (think about this) even *understand* the experience of gameplay competitive Halo is antithetical to a pick-up-and-play approach. halo of the past allowed for competitive scenes to exist, especially small scale scenes similar to modern FGC in a way). regardless, competitive/ranked play was not its soul. a recent comparison i would draw upon is how Blizzard handled Heroes of the Storm, from birth to death (of the HGC)..
It's moreso a lack of balance between the two. Because the game hasn't been aimed for competitive play since 343 took over, Halo 4 infamously almost killed the competitive scene by being too casual. Don't forget that Halo is largely responsible for the rise of esports in America; Halo 2 is viewed as the most competitive game in the franchise besides 5 and it had tournaments shown on TV in the 2000's. It was aiming the game at being more casual or more competitive that screwed it up. All of Halo 4 was affected by it's more arcadey and COD-like elements and Halo 5 was affected by every player having these insane mechanics. The modular element of Halo that allows you to set up the game to play how you want is the key.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op I think the real problem was that there was not enough content at launch with Infinite. It's been said a million times, but boy is it true.
Halo died when Bungie left. It died then, but 343i and Microsoft is dangling the corpse and claiming it's still alive when it's clearly rotting to the bone.
As a dev (though not at 343) I feel like the biggest factors in halos death were publisher side. Not consumers, just bad business practices. Microsoft put in bad higherups at 343 that just *didn't* let teams properly communicate and cooperate, they were kept in bubbles and it caused a lot of issues. Several great game ideas and pitches were also shot down because Microsoft didn't want to bother with them. And at several points, leadership and marketers demanded unreasonable changes the teams didn't have the time or capacity to do without harming the games significantly. Things like "make it open world but keep using an engine that struggles with open world scales". This just continually caused huge issues, lead to games that were unfinished and buggy on release, and when combined with microsoft's abhorrent hiring and contracting policies often meant that they were haemorrhaging the people who knew how to fix problems as and when the problems arose to need fixing. Combine that with the multiplayer chasing trends with competitive due to skewed marketer ideas on what the multiplayer should be, and suddenly you have games few people want to play. I think it's really unsurprising the games have been struggling so much in that context. Microsoft and the 343 higherups made an environment extremely hostile to any of the artists and creatives doing their work well and then the result was predictably not good. The vast majority of 343 employees were long time halo fans who played the games as kids and grew up with it. I think they could have knocked it out of the park with an employer with better business and management practices. I still play the OG halo games and on fan projects that get their multiplayers back up on PC. The campaign for CE in particular will always be a huge inspiration in my projects, but seeing that people just like me got to work on halo itself only to have corporate suits wreck everything will always be heart breaking. But I think those suits are fundamentally to blame, not consumers and not 343s employees. The corporate changes and demands rarely to never aligned with what fans want and never aligned with what devs wanted to do, just with corporate misunderstandings and monetary demands from ""data driven"" marketers
I disagree, the players had nothing to do with Halos downfall, bar those enabling 343s greed. It was the dismantling of Halos charm and "party style" that we experienced in 5 and Infinite. Im sure many purists would disagree, but Halo 4 despite its flaws, still felt like Halo. It had those vibes, very hard for me to explain but if you play it enough you might see what Im getting at. Halo 4 was the last Halo that put fun first. Starting in 5, the shift to competitive elements and greedy monetization is what ruined everything. This carried over to Infinite, especially with hyper aggressive SBMM, more than 95% of the armor being locked behind a paywall, and the severe lack of social elements. It really doesnt matter that Infinite has the best forge and customs if the fun first mentality doesnt accompany it. This is why Bungie Halo and in my eyes, Halo 4, will always be better than modern releases. Just my two cents though. Sidenote: Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer is also really good, no idea why people dont talk about it.
the 'fans' just yelled halo 4 sucks and didn't articulate what they ment. other than sprint(y'all can do sniper trick shots down hallways and shoot someone out of moving vehicle but can't a dude running....ok) the mp trying to copy cod was bad. it was still crazy fun for me and my brothers. they want the flood back.... the covenant back(gears territory now), 'why did you kill cortana 343'? who is the didact/librarian?...............my head hurts i'm stopping here
@@caliginousmoira8565 Now Im not against sprint. But the main argument against it is it ruins the map design, as maps need to be made with sprint in account. It wasnt about the speed of sprinting itself, Im of the opinion that sliding is way worse and breaks games more than sprint ever could.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op The only arguments against Halo 4 I saw at the time was sprint, loadouts, and art style being bad. Me and my friends only remember it being fun and it still being fun to this day. You probably stumbled upon an early Halo 4 hate echo chamber.
You're right bro. WE changed the art style to look ugly asf for no reason WE decided people who hate halo should make halo WE turned multi-player into a Call of Duty wannabe. WE made great marketing that turned out to be a lie in a garbage campaign WE turned the multi-player from a fun party game with friends to a competitive sweats only with Infinite Warfare ahh movement and everything locked behind grinding a Casino WE turned Infinite's whole campaign into the second level from CE WE made the multi-player free to play so we had an excuse to lock everything behind a paywall, including F*CKING COLOURS. WE MADE PLAYABLE ELITES A DISTANT MEMORY. You're right. It's all our fault, and 343 has done nothing wrong.
they did nothing wrong...look at CoD the fanbase kept playing even though it changed and they evolved with the game,....halo fans were entitled narcissists that killed the game cause they wouldnt play it until it was exactly the way they wanted, HALO MCC has all the old gamemodes exactly how you want it yet you dont play that...Infinite was a return to form despite its bugs just like mw2 and mw3 yet CoD fans played halo fans left it to die...
lol bro the guy commenting on your post is a real one…. Can’t even think . Cod has always been the f same . Entitlement is 343 changing everything and calling it halo . It’s like cod Turning to halo then fans says they don’t like cod anymore. Bs argument. He says halo infinite is return to true form lol you can tell he never played the original 1-3 in his life . A half baked game release is true form lol halo infinite was one third of a true halo . Buggy and boring . I bet he thinks he’s a expert in all Subjects . Probably sad that 343 is gone because he likes halo to be call of duty.
@@chargedx5768 "they did nothing wrong" lmfao. It's like out of the blue activision decides to add auto rechargeable shields and make the characters floaty as fuck and have holograms, armor lock and invisibility; like hello? of course the fans are gonna hate it (also lootboxes never had a place in halo), but call of duty has done a good job at keeping the same formula but making it feel fresh. The fact MCC has a bigger player base than infinite speaks fucking volumes. And lastly infnite was launched in the worse shape I have seen a game launch to this day, you couldn't even play with your friends without one disconnecting for no reason, spartans still automatically climb ledges to make it easier for zoomers to only focus on shooting, grenades did an absurd amount of damage and no friendly fire so you could blow up your friend and kill all enemies around him and he would be fine, the infinite melee punching glitch, not even mentioning no forge, no campaign, glitched vehicles. Just like LEGOAgenda said, you prob didn't play the trilogy, I still go back to reach and 3 from time to time with my friends to enjoy some good old campaign or multiplayer. Enjoy your dead game zoomer
@@chargedx5768that's like saying it's the customer's fault for not being happy when the product is completely from what it says on the box it came in. we just wanted a halo game.
@@chargedx5768 343 is not entitled to my time, money or care either. I go into a Halo game wanting to play Halo, not a sci-fi ripoff of Call of Duty or whatever popular FPS title is on top at the moment.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op yeah it was 343, imagine releasing a unfinished game and monetizing every single thing, I can't even go my favorite color set black on purple. it's just a poorly made cash grab. No story dlc, no griftball, no split-creen, No biome-diversty, No multiple enemy factions, no playable elites. overly monetized armor customization. they should've let us choose are own colors at least . But NOPE.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op he's correct, we didn't make the games no-one was asking for. We didn't put a skinsuit on a franchise and hoped the name alone would continue to sell. 343 came out and said they didn't know who master chief was/ that he was the main character. during like halo 4-5.
Dam, dislike to like ratio really isn't good. And tbh it's deserved, gotta think of the big picture rather than blaming it on the community. Dumbest thing you could say, really. The "we killed a game" doesnt work for everything bud.
This was such an L take bro. If its really because we got old, why did Halo 4 die immediately after launch and people went back to Reach? People were excited for that game but were let down when they finally got into their hands. Hell, even Infinite was even hyped on mainstream media and radio stations as "a return to form" before it was launched but also coincidentally died after people got it into their hands. Are you seeing a pattern here? Could it be the people stopped playing it because the game sucked and they were tired of being fooled? Spot the brain cell.
Halo 4 died, but Infinite did not; it definitely had a steep drop-off, but that's due to lack of content and technical issues. Infinite is still well populated, and even H5 still has a relatively active dedicated community. Honestly, if they could just stick the landing with a Halo game at launch, and follow it up with meaningful content, then it will be a success.
I remember getting 4 when it came out and playing it for a while, but it was so ugly visually and the multiplayer was so bad and it didn't have forge and it didn't have fun custom games. It just wasnt fun. All my friends and I continued playing Reach for years after 4 came out, and even after 5 came out, and the servers were still full!
This explains exactly how I felt on infinite let the down. The campaign/open world was trash and felt incomplete. I mainly play for the campaign then multiplayer. 4 was the last stomach able campaign been terrible since then
343's 2 biggest mistakes were: - copying industry trends instead of actually innovating the gameplay -trying to make the story character-driven instead of plot-driven
so, this is basically a 15 minute summary of halo’s history and then a few minutes saying that the actual reason the ip stopped being mainstream is because the devs tried to listen to the fans instead of doing whatever they want? 343 has been doing whatever they want for their entire existence. the Title Update for Reach was full of changes nobody liked. Halo 4’s gameplay and art style were made of changes that nobody wanted. Halo 5 basically just stayed the course and told everyone to go suck it. And Infinite was just a big cash grab on the part of the leadership. Hell, even unrelated stuff like the TV show ignored everything that fans actually said they wanted for decades and it’s almost universally hated. if ignoring the fans and cooking your own way is how 343 is supposed to make good halo, then it should have a billion players right now. your point makes no sense. what am I missing?
@@theangryimp1345 Sprint has demonstrably made the games worse, with map design and even weapon handling having to change to accommodate the faster movement. If it wasn't a problem, then 343 wouldn't have nerfed it into the ground in Infinite. People keep saying Halo needs it in order to "modernize", but successful games like Counter Strike and the Doom reboots are proof that isn't necessary.
I've seen this argument before. "If Bungie made games that Halo fans actually wanted the Halo would be fine" said the Halo 3 players who didn't want to play the wildly popular Reach. And this was brought up against 343 who followed Bungie's support for wanting Halo 4 to follow in Reach's footsteps which also (at the time) paralleled what the majority of players wanted, a mechanical evolution and follow up to reach.
@@zalrohglekgolo6149 Reach sucked, and I knew plenty of Halo players who went back to H3 not long after Reach released. Even with new friends who I've introduced to the series for the first time with MCC tend to rank Reach lower than most of the other games in the collection. Halo 4 should've been a sequel to Halo 3, not a sequel to a prequel spinoff game.
No, it wouldn't be. The "fans" as you describe would actually be a very limited group for a "mainstream" franchise. Halo needs to evolve, not backtrack.
A game lives and dies by it's player base. So if you wanna say we, the players, killed halo, sure. But a game is only as good as the developers make it, and Halo hasn't been as good as it could be in years.
I look at it like this. The devs ruined the game, so the community got up and left. I think that is an accurate portrayal of the events that transpired. However, instead of blaming the devs (who develop the game) for ruining the game, this fool is blaming the community (who doesnt develop the game) lol.
Fans didn't kill Halo. If anything, fans are the reason the game is even alive in the first place. Most of the maps in Infinite are just Forge maps made by the COMMUNITY. It shouldn't be the players' job to essentially make content for you. The reason why there's this notion of "we killed Halo" is because 343 abandoned the original fans and birthed a new generation that divided the fanbase even further. We see this all the time in other IPs like Star Wars, Assassin's Creed, Dragon Age, Rainbow Six, etc. Kids who grew up with the 343 games are now adults who likely never experienced the originals other than the MCC ports, but years later 343 will manage to anger even them (we already see it happening with Infinite; given how much people are jumping in to praise both Halo 4 and 5 now). Halo lost its soul because 343 constantly tried making the game appeal to the modern audience while chasing trends and making the game competitive-focused, rather than simply making the game FUN and sticking with the gimmicks that made Halo cool to begin with. Remember splitscreen? The thing Bonnie Ross promised after Halo 5? "No one plays splitscreen anymore! It's outdated and irrelevant!" F those who have siblings/families then. I guess games like Smash are irrelevant now too. Remember Assassinations? "They were pointless and ruined the flow of the game!" They looked cool. Just disable them for competitive playlists. Remember playable Elites? "They're too big!" They looked cool. Just disable them for competitive playlists. Remember dual wielding? "It's imbalanced!" Once again, it was fun and looked cool. Just make it an option for customs and disable it for competitive playlists instead of axing it from the game entirely. It probably won't be long until 343 Industudios decides to remove hijacking and guns altogether. What's crazy is the fact that 343 defenders still want a Battle Royale but are strongly against all the things mentioned. The "We'll just have to wait and see" or "Maybe they'll do better next time!" is exactly the reason why 343 keeps doing what they're doing. It's literally insane. "We" may enable them, but in the end, 343 are the ones making the games, not us.
You know a video is bad when it resorts to out and out lies within the first minute... "You could move and shoot at the same time... nobody had done that yet." You could do that on both Goldeneye, its direct sequel Perfect Dark and plenty of other N64 fps shooters. The controls were fully customizable. One of the presets had you moving around with C buttons and aiming with the joystick. Another fully customizable console shooter was Quake 3 on the Dreamcast, released over a year before Halo. The demo shown at Macworld wasn't a real time strategy game either.
Lol Yeah. Also, games like QUAKE 2 for PS1 could be played like the PC version with the Playstation mouse accessory, and QUAKE 3: ARENA for the Dreamcast could be played with the Dreamcast Keyboard and mouse accessories, with online multiplayer and matchmaking, which once again gives console gamers a PC experience. So, a "fix", as well as "moving and shooting" experience, as well as a PC experience, was already possible on consoles in the 90s before Halo released in 2001. This is the problem with popular games and people who are either biased, misinformed, or uninformed... Popular games on consoles are usually incorrectly credited with innovations they didn't do first, which leads to games like Halo, and even Goldeneye 007, being overrated, over praised, and wrongly credited with things they did not innovate on, or do first. Misinformation/disinformation is a real problem and needs to rectified at any opportunity. So, good on you for doing that. 👍🏻
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.look at the CoD the fanbase(even though they are degenerates) they kept playing even though the core game changed and they evolved with the game,....halo fans were entitled narcissists that killed the game cause they wouldnt play it until it was exactly the way they wanted, HALO MCC has all the old gamemodes exactly how you want it yet you dont play that...Infinite was a return to form despite its bugs just like mw2 and mw3 yet CoD fans played halo fans left it to die.
@chargedx5768 I've put over 100 hours into the MMC in the last couple of months. Even halo 4. And yes, if the game is not what you are expecting or wanting, you're not obligated to play it. Halo 4 multi-player tried so hard to be like CoD. Infinite was a mess when it first came out, crazy amount of micro transactions, long periods in between content drops, and for a long time, hardly any game modes or maps. Infinite is actually in a decent place now. But damage has been done there already. In regards to MW3, that game was hated for being mostly a DLC for MW2.
Everyone remember that 343 is Microsoft, and always has been. Bungie got to be it's own entity that negotiated with Microsoft. 343 and Halo Studios are being managed by people in microsoft that have no taste or talent in the creatice world.
@TheCouch-Co-Op Microsoft shares a lot of blame for letting 343 screw around with their flagship IP for 12 years, and they should have either put the studio on something else or scrapped it altogether after MCC, but at the end of the day, 343 made these games.
Microsoft calls the design direction shots. There are multiple examples of 343 devs going on record stating that they had limited creative autonomy and often had ideas like the Helldivers-esque ODST game shut down.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op Let's pretend for a minute that 343 had zero creative control. Design decisions are far from the only problems with these games. Did Microsoft want MCC to be unplayable for years, and for them to take out the credits and loading screens of the original games? Or did Microsoft prevent them from shipping assassinations, forge, theater, split-screen, and coop altogether? What about only having a handful of game modes, and two seasons a year? Surely that was Microsoft's decision. Yes, they're both at fault. I don't defend either of them.
We? NO. "We" are not part of 343, "We" are not part of Microsoft, "We" aren't the Board of Directors in that Corporate game. In fact, "We" the fans are the ones who kept Halo relevant, We the Fans go Ape Shit Excited when we hear that there's a Major, Fan Made Project or Mod. In fact, Games like Splitgate, found a fanbase, because "We" found out it was built Based off the gameplay of "Pre-Halo 5" Multiplayer. Yeah, we the Fans have bickered, and had negative opinions. But you wanna know what's worst that a Negative opinion? When the fan base just stops talking about Halo. 😢 So No, "We" didn't kill Halo. "We" were the LIFE SUPPORT that kept Halo breathing in the ICU. 🥺🙏
Halo invented shooting while moving?... this is the dumbest take I've ever heard for a video. Comment sections aren't even this bad. In goldeneye, you could move and shoot with the stick - the C buttons were for strafing and looking up and down. That that was the default default control scheme but you could also use the Turok style theme where the stick would look all around and turn with the c buttons moving forward and strafing - so exactly the same as today's controls only left-handed style.
In the first modern FPS game ever made, Wolfenstein 3D, back in 1994, on the port made for Super Nintendo, you could also move and shoot at the same time, or strafe and shoot at the same time. The guy who made the video is lolcow material. What a joke.
This should've been the statement "People were stating halo 4 was a CoD clone with shields, by the time Halo 5 came out they really doubled down on CoD"
Thought the title was clickbait, just to find out that the case is actually being made that the fans are responsible for Halo’s downfall. I specifically laughed at the quote “It was difficult to get a beat of what the audience wanted”. Halo 4 came out and changed pretty much everything about Halo; 90% of people hated it. I’d say that’s a pretty clear cut response by the fans. Then, instead of listening, 343 doubled down and strayed even further from Halo’s roots with 5. There’s your nail in the coffin right there. Turning around and saying that the fans killed Halo is an entirely lost cause. It’s like sacking the stoker on a steam train and wondering why the train won’t move anymore. As long as this attitude persists, Halo will NEVER succeed again.
I personally don't think Halo is a dead franchise, it just isn't a cultural icon like it used to be. In hindsight, Halo fatigue was inevatable. I'm not sure if this was like this for everyone but growing up, Halo was everywhere. My grocery store sold the sealed minifigure packs, big box stores had dedicated sections (granted it was smaller than the Lego section) for Halo Mega Bloks and my local gamestore was packed with Halo merchandise like caps, t-shirts, display models and action figures. Honestly, there was no way they could keep up with much interest for a franchise with 3 year release schedule games. Halo certainly isn't as popular as it was before but I don't doubt that it's still profitable.
If Halo were not profitable, the franchise would have already been shut down. We know very well that Microsoft does not tolerate failed products. What Microsoft lacks is investment; they could create different types of games with Halo. It doesn’t have to be just about Chief and Cortana.
343 game devs were literally hired to create a halo game that halo player's didn't like she specifically hired people who didn't like halo. Her whole thing was to make halo not halo. We as the community did not pick her. We as a community called her out and Microsoft took decades to fire her. We didn't kill halo we were simply forced to watch it die.
I find it frustrating when TH-camrs act as if they’re uncovering some grand truth about Halo while positioning themselves as the ultimate authority on the topic. Your title and approach seem to blame the community for Halo’s decline, which is completely off the mark. Let me break it down clearly: the issues with Halo stem from 343 Industries, not the community. 343 has mishandled what was once an incredible franchise, turning it into something that no longer resonates with long-time fans. They strayed from the elements that made the series great. Halo deserves better, and so do its fans. Content like yours feels out of touch and overly critical of the wrong people. It’s not helpful to shift the blame onto the community when the responsibility lies elsewhere.
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As a Halo Infinite forger, I am going back to Halo MCC to build new maps that are actually fun! I missed the fun game nights of MCC and never actually had a fun game night with Halo Infinite 😢 I will be modding Halo 2 Anniversary with new block colors and textures 😊🎉🎉
It’s crazy that to this day halo fans completely ignore how toxic the fanbase is towards every halo game each release. Y’all have been hating on halo since H2. It’s also crazy how yall completely ignore Microsoft’s role in literally everything being the biggest contributor to halos issues.
@ people LITERALLY did though, there’s literally evidence about this and Microsoft has had its hands in halo since CE. Maybe if you actually, oh idk, looked at the history you wouldn’t be so poorly informed? Whaddya know.
I feel like this video didn't go into nearly enough detail about the actual thesis, that being how trying to balance both modern trends and fanservice resulted in 3 halo games that were confused, unfocused, and unpolished. I also don't think it really fits the title, at all. Arguing "we' killed it implies that if 343 had fully engaged in fanservice, that the result would have been even worse than what we got. This point doesn't really follow from anything the video said, and, arguably, the fact that Halo Infinite's current profitability is brought up outright undermines it - Infinite was easily the most fanservice-y of all 3 of them, and it's widely regarded as the best title. How did "we" kill it if the closest we got to what we wanted also happened to be the closest 343 got to actually succeeding?
You spent the majority of this video detailing halos history and its most recent stumbles and the cause of them. Yet you say it’s the fans fault for being where it is right now? Halos current state (monetary or otherwise) is a result of multiple factors and tho some of the more vitriolic fans may have contributed to it, to say it’s the fans’ fault for halos current state being because we “grew up” is grossly hyperbolic and obfuscates those very factors you brought up in your own video.
We didnt kill it companies killed gaming anything for a profit plus people making games dont understand how games were made to just have fun instead of pay to play
I believe there are two things that made halo special. #1 The first 3 halos were revolutionary. Halo CE used the dual sticks that worked really well and made console shooters feel good, Halo 2 came in with tons of online feature and heavily revolutionized multiplayer and its features, halo 3 added a sand box mode and theatre that let you watch back your clips you saved (to be clear bungie didn't make dual sticks or the online features but they made great use out of them). #2 they were their own game. In my opinion, Reach was trying too much to be like COD and the later games tried even harder to be like COD. That would be fine except that COD already existed so why play a wanna be when you have the real thing?
You're off your rocker with this click bait. Halo got panned because 343 and Microsoft spent 13+ years trying to tell Halo fans what they wanted, and never delivering what Bungie worked hard to establish for a decade straight. Crowbcat nailed it, the leadership was (and unfortunately, technically still is) to blame.
An underlying reason 343's Halos appealed less as a fun party experience, which is massively overlooked by everyone, is the inclusion of enhanced mobility. What EM does is raise the skill floor, making it less appealing to those wanting a more simple, fun experience, such as your housemates joining in on a Halo couch/split screen party. Or to put this all another way, EM raised the game's minimum sweat level.
Not trying to be negative or anything, but there were plenty of FPS that used dual analog sticks before Halo 1 came out. Halo 1 did create aim assist, but not "moving and shooting at the same time". TimeSplitters on PS2 which came out a whole 13 months before Halo had it. Quake 2 on PS1 had it as default assuming you had the DS1 controller and that was in 1999 a few years before Halo came out. A mostly forgotten gem that released 6 months before Halo was Red Faction which also had "Moving and shooting at the same time", along with multiple vehicles you get to control including Flying gun ships, mini submarines. It also allowed for terraforming terrain, which worked in multiplayer too. Point being Halo gets credited for plenty of innovative mechanics that it didn't pioneer (except for its specific brand of aim assist, totally a Halo 1 contribution, and regenerative shields). While not technically new mechanics, Halo was just very well polished.
I don't think any one factor could be to blame for Halo's downfall. The original audience absolutely got older (and with age comes grouchiness). Bungie wanted to branch out, leaving that audience on a bit of a sour note from Reach in terms of gameplay direction. 343 took over and didn't have the experience (or care) to listen to fans and manage the game appropriately both in terms of gameplay, art, and narrative, subsequently failing to either retain the audience or build a new one. Microsoft went hard on micromanaging 343 once Bungie left, and implemented further monetisation practices. The end result was that people on all sides agreed with certain aspects from these factors, whilst others disagreed. Eventually, everyone was just arguing with each other over everything and nothing. I agree in that sprint typified this. Halo's audience, community, and connection was lost on all sides... Although that seems to be the way of gaming in general for a lot of old franchises these days. Nice video, G!
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I do believe the biggest culprits of Halo’s decline is 343 Industries or “Halo Studios.” They rarely acted on fan feedback and often took away past elements in previous games. Why? “Creative freedom.” Halo became Bonnie Ross’ Marvel, and she, as well as her associates drove it into the ground with beyond poor management. The secondary issue was that gamers didn’t have the attach rate to Halo as they did Call of Duty. It had several games that was previously exclusive; also hindering its capacity to reach a larger audience. So, when their fandom mostly moved- on, the franchise nose- dived even further without support. Now Halo has to deal with DEI reimagined remakes. Oh…, I’m sure that’ll go swimmingly. That said, sometimes people are too harsh on the franchise. Just look at Halo Infinite’s campaign or Halo Wars 2: Was still good stuff.
@ Incorrect: Certain Affinity has helped 343 co- develop with several Halo fps titles. Creative Assembly co- developed Halo Wars 2 with 343 Industries. In fact, 343 began development as early as 2014, choosing to approach SEGA and their development studio, Creative Assembly to help finish the product by early 2017. Certain Affinity has nothing to do with Halo Wars 2.
Yeah sorry, you lost me when you started complaining about imaginary issues like "dEi". Normal people don't complain about dei. "Certain Affinity has nothing to do with Halo Wars 2" Yeah that's a straight up lie.
@@Johnspartan296 There’s literally nothing in Halo Wars 2’s credits claiming any ties to Certain Affinity. That’s both on console and P.C. - There’s no mention whatsoever. Some older members of Bungie whom worked on the Halo license work at Certain Affinity, but it’s up in the air of they’ll be able to have more of an active decision- making process over Halo Studios in the future. D.E.I. is constantly worried about by online gamers. Sweet Baby Inc., the forced diversity, equity and inclusion, as well as their decision- making to hire developers who have literally admitted to publicly hating Halo on social media all have had fans up in arms. It’s definitely not fictitious or unworthy of investigation.
Halo reminds me of the Fast and the Furious movies. The first, second, and third were good, but now they just add random stuff that doesn't make any sense.
20:30 I've done that. Normal people know that when people say "sprint" it's something that can't be done for a long time. Normal people also know that it is possible to fire a weapon whilst sprinting, even though you can't hit anything you're trying to aim at. Normal people also question why on earth the developers would add something that makes things go faster, when they get motion sick just from normal Halo Trilogy gameplay. Isn't the point to attract more people to the game? If so, why have sprint, and other things that make the gameplay too fast for casuals to win at?
Don't take a page out of 343's book and blame the fans. We had no decisions in the making of these games, it was always up to Microsoft AND 343 to do their homework and then make a game we'd all love. Or at least have some of their own directors play the previous games, because they tried to move on from the old Halo games as much as possible. If they had someone who loved and was passionate about the original games, we would have gotten more of them instead of something completely detached. And Halo isn't magical, there are objective attributes and characteristics of it that 343 could have reverse engineered and evolved. It is possible for 343 to reasonably please almost all Halo fans, they just haven't done it yet. I don't know how you can say with a straight face that Halo fans killed Halo when your name is "Couch Co-Op", something integral to Halo that 343 removed. This is something that 343 promised 2 times now and lied both times, it's no wonder why people hate them. Stop being a shill and allow 343 to take accountability, why are you defending a corporation for literally lying multiple times? This type of shit shouldn't be forgiven and forgotten; this is a permanent stain on their record. Halo fans arguing over sprint isn't our fault, it is simply our desires. It is entirely 343's fault for arguing back with us when they should have listened to what their consumers are asking for and remove it. You don't see these types of silly arguments in other gaming communities because game developers usually aren't this stubborn and stupid. If sprint was added to other similar games like Doom or Quake, everyone in those communities would be very opposed to it: because sprint goes against the core of these arena type shooters. But we've never had to see any of that unfold, because the developers of those games already understand that sprint is bad, they aren't going to test it out and argue stubbornly with their fanbase for an entire decade. They aren't going to try and force it into their next game and reach a half-assed compromise like what happened in Halo Infinite. That would be fucking ridiculous for a game studio to do. I don't think I've ever seen another studio or company in general try to argue about something so intensely with their consumers instead of just giving us what we want and collecting our money. And as for Halo fans who like sprint, they are the minority and shouldn't be listened to if 343 wants to revive Halo/make money. Halo fans who like sprint came into the franchise during 343's games, they aren't going to be the ones to stick around for Halo's roots. And Halo going to its roots is the only way this game will become popular again, so what needs to be done is obvious. Stop catering to the audience that was never there for them, and start listening to what Halo players have been asking for, soon to be 15 years now. Half Life 2, Doom Eternal, and Counter Strike 2 are some of the biggest FPS games of all time, and none of them have sprint. Doom Eternal was a very recent game and Counter Strike 2 is still one of the biggest FPS games at this moment. Halo doesn't and never needed sprint to succeed.
Yeah, it was the people who just wanted to play a classic Halo title and didn't eat the slop who killed the franchise, not the people who were given millions of dollars and a decade who just produced failure after failure who did it..... Also love how you think of yourself as the arbiter of which issues and topics get to be important.
When did "WE" steer the games in a different direction and away from what made the community love the series? When did "WE" make videos using the Mister Chief cartoon on how we are kids who don't understand what the adults are doing when it comes to making random cards that give players and unbalanced and pay to win weapon system? When did "WE" leave an entire game collection to rot for half a decade only to later come back to it when the studio wasn't making enough money? When did "WE" implement predatory business tactics? When did "WE" hire devs who didn't like Halo and wanted it to change? When did "WE" relegate the stories to be concluded or started in books? When did "WE" fire entire departments that would've worked on the so called 10 year platform for Halo? When did "WE" put a clause in 343's hiring contract that anyone brought on board was a temporary contractor? When did "WE" spend more money than any other franchise to make multiple versions of one game only to scrap them and in that time not communicate AT ALL about what's next or what's being worked on? When did "WE" develop a cobbled together engine that "couldn't handle changes to the menu UI"? When did "WE" lie about basic features that have not been a problem for ANY entry or even ANY other studio making ANY other game? "WE" were punked time and time again by false promises. "WE" were tricked into thinking that they were listening to "US" as they implemented the opposite. "WE" had to sit there and watch as 343 and Microsoft scrambled to figure out how to corporatize the game and turn it into a money sink. "WE" had no choice but to sit there and watch them fumble the ball every time they tried to do something. I'm sick of hearing youtubers and 343 "fans" blame all of the problems the games face and all of the technical and financial mishandling on the consumers time and time again. 343 and Microsoft both have been yelled at to fix netcode, fix the cheating so rampant in MCC, fix the asinine cosmetic systems, fix the myriad of bugs that plague each release because they assume we want a new game the day after the last one released instead of taking time to actually polish the game. But no, when we offer ideas the vast majority of the community request or need, 343 and Microsoft give corporate PR responses as to why it's too hard. "WE" offer the solutions to "OUR" problems that "THEY" make. So no, "WE" didn't kill anything. "343 and Microsoft" killed Halo and we sat there screaming as it died.
Dude... Bungie did not want to stop making Halo games. In fact they were more than happy to keep going but because of the high pressure and poor treatment from Microsoft, Bungie wanted to leave and take Halo with them. Microsoft, however, did not like that and made a deal with Bungie (this happened after Halo 2's release): make 3 more Halo games and you can leave but we keep the franchise. Bungie reluctantly agreed to this. I don't know how you can say Bungie wanted to stop making Halo games when Joe Staten and Marty O'Donnell have gone on record saying that during their Bungie days, making Halo games and continuing the IP was all they wanted due to how it was beloved by everyone. Also we, the community, did not kill Halo; 343 Industries did with their radical changes and their mistreatment of the Halo community.
343/ Halo Studios is Halo's error, and they rightly bear the blame. Broken promises, non-functional multiplayer during launch, horrendous desync issues that lasted for over a year. That's not even getting into the MCC debacle. So 343🖕get that up ya.
I'm sorry what? you just said in the entire of the video things that where changed in halo, sound/art/vision/story/music/monetization etc. Then in the end is our fault "we go older" like we just got bored of halo. hell no it simple doesn't catter to the halo fan anymore. if your favorite steak house suddenly changed to serve only salad and you don't go there anymore isn't because we got sick of meat. the fact I'm actually bothering to respond to a halo video just means i still care more than i thought i stopped caring
The only thing "we" are guilty of is letting 343i live for so long, and just changing the name of the studio is not gonna fix fundamental issues within it
Everyone died... except Noble 6, he's hiding in a cave somewhere perfectly fine. Forgot his helmet but that's okay, he's just living a simple life in the cave in no risk of dying whatsoever.
@@GH0STCCC-vu5rzidk, GTA 5 was an absolute titan when it launched. I remember going into most shops and entire cabinets would be filled with copies of GTA. Crazy times.
343 continuous flop was because they pushed the game to be "modern". Halo 4-5 added all this movement tech which would be great in another game. Halo infinite failed because it still modern in how you customize your character. Halo was original a party game, make a cool guy and play online. The purpose of multiplayer was to find players to fill out a custom game roaster. Halo 3/reach had a popular pro scene because THE GAME WAS FUN. Fun games will always get a competitive scene. If you build a game to be competitive, you'll get players but the game wont gain a large player base. A grand majority of gamers are casual, and 343 didn't understand that. 343 easily could have made the game's lore into great games, but they instead focused on the wrong parts of multiplayer. Halo infinite took way to long to get forge and a server browser, had they launched with that I promise you the game would have been better received.
SYNOPSIS: Halo, from CE to Reach, was the popular console + lore game for normal people. Now it has neither the identity nor the gameplay of a Halo game. [Part 1 & 2 of "Andy - Bunker Dweller" 's "Halo 4 is worse than you remember - Halo 4 Review" is the most coincise and well explained source I can give to expand on how I see what 343 did to Halo; I can NOT add more text, otherwise this comment would be too long for TH-cam's limits.] . . . I am not normal people, most people don't sweat with aim, strategy and so on. To make my own opinion of the game I got my Xbox 360 on the 4k tv and bought a copy of Halo 3 used (I bought all Halo games but CE, which I have on the HDD of a modded XBOX, but I only +) and finished that. . Halo is not about quick reflexes, precise shots, ammo and tool management and so on, it's about getting presented a cool setting and play it with the same ease you have with wearing a sock. You play through the levels getting driven by the story, acting out as the protagonist and witnessing what happens to him on the front row. Hard and Legendary difficulties, and multiplayer's sweat, was there for those normal people who liked the game more and wanted a bit more of a challenge, while easy mode was for younger teens and people who just can't match what's needed to play in normal difficulty. . HALO IS NOT DOOM, AND THAT IS OK. As said before Halo is about living a story, the good version of the "narrative driven games" that now more than not have taken "the boring route", both at the high and low end of the budget scale, regardless of success (Halo makes you want to play it, but the latest God of Wars make you want to watch them on TH-cam instead, skipping ALL the gameplay). . Functionally Halo's story is over. Except for one or two stories which could be adapted as prequel games no more can be done forwards (that is what ODST and Reach were), at best infinite themed missions or multiplayer games can be created with the Halo theme (the RTS games + Infinite's multiplayer prove it), but if too much gets changed the game which ONCE WAS for normal people now has not only to popurarly compete with the slop that is CoD, but has also to mechanically compete with wither tactical FPS or movement shooters which both have better refined those aspects already, all while losing the Halo identity it has had since the first instalment: "military science fiction where humanity has to endure an assault over a long lost, ancient truth". Halo's story is over, and that's ok, and that's good. What story can be told now?
Ever since Prometheans were added in Halo 4 the game just did not feel the same. I would’ve been happy if the franchise ended at 3 or kept the enemies the same in the series. The flood did not exist in Halo 4 I recall after beating it.
343 killed Halo. They hated working on it and wanted to work on something else but Microsoft and fans wanted Halo to continue so they messed with it to the point where they redid the designs of already established characters so they wouldn't use Bungie's design.
I actually couldn't disagree with this take more if I wanted to. No the Halo community did not kill Halo, it was 343 Industries. You fail to mention the betrayal that we faced through each release that 343 did, and how they wanted Halo to not be ours anymore. I'll lay out some examples: MCC's launch Halo 5's deletion of splitscreen Halo 4's implementation of starting with a Plasma Pistol and sticky grenades rendering the vehicle gameplay useless Micro transactions becoming the main line of income Hiring contract workers to build a new engine which is now being abandoned that costed millions The Halo TV show by the way... awful I could honestly go on, and maybe I'll make my own video about it. Realistically, we the community may have been fractured, but it was not our fault. Sprint arguments were there, but guess what? They were held by few people. I used to be on Halo Waypoint's chat forum before 343 killed it [another blow to the community btw], and there may have been some forums about this being an issue but they were few and far between. I think you missed me with this one, and hopefully most of the Halo community. We're not going to get served a plate of shit and not complain about it. You've got your work cut out for you with this argument, as them betraying our trust constantly is something that Bungie never managed to do to us once. If anything, they overdelivered.
There're so many points I could make about this, but I think the best rebuttal would be the "343 is like an abusive spouse" joke I've seen many times. Despite everything; 4, 5, art style, gameplay... I stuck with this franchise. Always telling myself that Halo's return was right around the corner. I literally cried when 343 released "Through the Trees." Then I played through the campaign and tried the multiplayer once and I was done. My hope for Halo died. And it only took me TEN YEARS! We were too negative? No, we just didn't want to lose something we loved. That, and 343 never even listened to us to begin with! At least not until Infinite, though I think it's very clear they still didn't really want to. There's a reason Bungie didn't get along with Microsoft. It's because they were trying to avoid everything 343 became.
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Bullshit they changed it and it died, it s not on us it s on them. They ruined the lore, character assasineted chief and cortana, changed an iconic art style and sfx for something generic. They threw away everything that made the game fun in both campaign and online and never understood what made halo good. Bad level design, damb ai, enemys that aren t fun to fight, absent to mid at best vehicles sections, bad physics and many more sins. And the sprint argumemt that u made at the end is stupid, of course the avg fan doesn t know anything about what made halo good from a game design view, they dont know about stuff like the "30 seconds" and the "golden triangle" (that is brutally murdered by advanced movement) but yet they know that the 343 games are at their core, from a quality standpoit, average. And you know why? It s because at their core they aren t halo games, they don t have engadging story with unforgettable soundtracks and replayble gameplays scenarios that u can expirience in coop. And they arent fully completed games at dayone but rather sloppy early access with tons of stuff in the store that was once free
It was never the players fault, and I feel that's obvious. In the video, there aren't even any reasonable points leading to it being the player's fault. Still though, it's always nice to analyze what went wrong and how to fix it, which is probably something the people at Halo Studios should be doing. I really hope they're doing that
Bungie produced a trilogy and with three supplementary games that fleshed out the backstory and world. 343 tried to start a trilogy THREE TIMES OVER, bollocked it so hard they had to change their name to ditch some of the heat, and are now scrambling out a reboot because current continuity is borked. Don't put Halo's death on my shoulders, i just wanted the green man to shoot aliens.
Infinite is fun if you waited with starting it for the first time until the last quarter of this year xD Still playing CE multiplayer active, as well as MCC mods and Infinite feels like a true successor to Halo 3, unlike anything that came before it. Just sad that we lost so many great alien guns from H3.
I have to be honest here, as a long time Halo fan, we're not responsible for the many mistakes 343 and Microsoft have been consistently making when making Halo. Their insistence on keeping Halo as a competitive shooter and changing shit that didn't need changing has only ever been, and will likely continue to be a detriment to the franchise, for as long as they persist in doing so. Infinite was a step in the right direction, but they still didn't properly commit to returning to form, and the game is in this weird state of trying to actually be closer to the Bungie Era titles, but still insisting on being more of the same, whilst also, yet again, making more changes that didn't need to happen. (Looking at you, Bulldog. It would've been fine if it remained alongside the Shotgun, but it outright replaces it, and in my opinion, it's for the worse.) I'll actually even vouch for Halo 5 here in some capacity at least. As a Halo game? It's easily the worst entry we've gotten, and it's so far off the mark, to call it a Halo game is laughable. As a movement shooter? It actually could've stood a chance, and I would even wager it could've thrived as it's own standalone game. But evidently, that didn't happen, because 343 and Microsoft seem to have no god damn clue about what they're working on half the time. But the biggest crime of them all, is that they've had over a decade to try and make a good Halo game that actually dares to try and come close to compare, only to have fallen short at their latest and closest attempt yet. They've had plenty of chances, but at this point, unless the remake is absolute perfection and genuinely captures the charm of the Bungie Era titles, I don't see Halo making it's big comeback in the long term. And honestly, it shouldn't have been this way. Halo could've remained a titan amongst the FPS genre. But clearly that isn't the case. And I can promise you, we're not the ones to blame. The real Halokiller, was 343 and Microsoft. Also, I know I stroked Bungie's dick for a good while there, but let me tell you, I got no faith in the Bungie of today doing a good job at it either, based on my experiences and what I've been hearing about Destiny 2. Unless they suddenly give a shit again, and get the right folks aboard who not only know what they're doing, but actually care enough to give us an amazing game again, Halo's as good as dead creatively and spiritually. I've got no faith in any of the three, or the "new" Halo Studios, which is pretty much just a rebranded 343 to me, in delivering anything good. Hell, they can't even do a good campaign. Ever since Halo 4, every campaign seem to have some issues, some of them ranging from annoying, to pissing me off immensely. I've not enjoyed any of them. And that says a LOT.
If by "we" you mean a publisher's and higher-up's inability to make good decisions, then yes. And by make good decisions, I mean keep their hands away and let the creatives work. If anything, fans are the ones that kept this franchise alive during the massive gap of content after Halo 5. Fans kept Infinite afloat after it launched with little content and over monitization. Halo is lucky to have fans as dedicated as they are. Edit: Let's not forget that during the time of Halo 3, Esports had their own space. They didn't have weapons nerfed or content removed to cater to the Esports scene. People targeted Esports players because it had too much focus. Shoot, instead of a classic weapon we got two head-shot weapons. A type of weapon prefered by Esports players. They may not be the problem, but leaning into Esports as much as 343 did took away an important aspect of Halo. It's a shooter that was meant to be good, casual fun. It's a game meant to be a chill night with friends, not sweaty and over-competative. Halo 3 had a good balance and current Infinite is doing a great job too, but that doesn't mean it didn't cause problems.
"Halo died, and 343/Halo Studios killed it."
"We"? Who's "we"?
Good question. 343 killed halo not us. 343 gave us unfinished games twice, lied about what was coming on launch only to delay it so much it got removed and have the audacity to say our expectations are too high, removed playable elites, sabotage the games with incompetence, ignoring what we want to see in games and killing off characters in book plus finishing the story the game started in a book. No one wanted this.
Indeed but for this guy t's always the community's fault. He says the same for his favourite game: Rainbow Six Siege. It's always the monkey fans fault for this guy. Baffling.
343 gave us unfinished games THREE times. Halo 4, 5, and Infinite... could count MCC as well...
For real. If anything "we" are the ones keeping it alive by buying every release.
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Halo didnt die. It was MURDERED.
Fair.
Literally by cancer...
No, the body was buried since 2010, it never been the same or improve
Halo was never dead, 343 Industries happily butchered it. The fans will keep the franchise alive, zero faith until I see gameplay from Halo Studios.
It was 343 studios, in the Library, WITH... the Sniper Rifle.
"and we killed" Never heard 343 Industries called "We" before.
we we we I didn't think 343 was french
Nothing more annoying from a developer then blaming the customer and community after a developer straight up told them they don't want their money.
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@@MusicaX79so, you just ignoring the fanbase has been toxic and against every halo game at release since AT LEAST Halo 2? Right buddy, cus the fanbase are a buncha saints and it’s only the developers fault.
@@swoops7687 I've been playing since Halo 2. There's a huge difference between Bungie's balance changes and 343 changing Halo's core identity to chase Call of Duty players. They rewrote the story for drama, called fans toxic for fair criticism, and abandoned what made Halo special. Bungie improved the game for actual Halo fans. The original creators (Jones, Staten, O'Donnell) built something special - 343 just isn't the same. Can't blame players for leaving when the developers openly reject their old fanbase. The game being unfun isn't toxic behavior, it's just reality.
The biggest killer was changing who multiplayer was designed for.
In the Bungie era, multiplayer was a party experience, made for friends and fun.
Since 343 took charge, multiplayer was aimed towards competitive play, so everything became much more boring in order to ensure a tiny minority of the players had a 'balanced experience'.
I feel like Infinite tried to get away from that and did a relatively good job, but the damage to the brand had already been done.
havent watched the video yet, but this comment is something that has always stuck out to me.
memories of what halo *actually* was in 2001-2010: party-game FPS, co-op FPS, epic campaign
a game where any level of skill could hop on and contribute, have fun, and (think about this) even *understand* the experience of gameplay
competitive Halo is antithetical to a pick-up-and-play approach. halo of the past allowed for competitive scenes to exist, especially small scale scenes similar to modern FGC in a way). regardless, competitive/ranked play was not its soul.
a recent comparison i would draw upon is how Blizzard handled Heroes of the Storm, from birth to death (of the HGC)..
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u They "balanced" the fun out of HotS.
It's moreso a lack of balance between the two. Because the game hasn't been aimed for competitive play since 343 took over, Halo 4 infamously almost killed the competitive scene by being too casual. Don't forget that Halo is largely responsible for the rise of esports in America; Halo 2 is viewed as the most competitive game in the franchise besides 5 and it had tournaments shown on TV in the 2000's. It was aiming the game at being more casual or more competitive that screwed it up. All of Halo 4 was affected by it's more arcadey and COD-like elements and Halo 5 was affected by every player having these insane mechanics. The modular element of Halo that allows you to set up the game to play how you want is the key.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op I think the real problem was that there was not enough content at launch with Infinite. It's been said a million times, but boy is it true.
"Save the Earth." "Team up with badass aliens". "Avenge Reach". "Fight the Flood".
Careful, Frank O'Connor's alt account is rambling in the comments.
Halo died when Bungie left. It died then, but 343i and Microsoft is dangling the corpse and claiming it's still alive when it's clearly rotting to the bone.
Sometimes, the best thing to do is walk away. Definitely applied to Halo by that point
As a dev (though not at 343) I feel like the biggest factors in halos death were publisher side. Not consumers, just bad business practices.
Microsoft put in bad higherups at 343 that just *didn't* let teams properly communicate and cooperate, they were kept in bubbles and it caused a lot of issues. Several great game ideas and pitches were also shot down because Microsoft didn't want to bother with them.
And at several points, leadership and marketers demanded unreasonable changes the teams didn't have the time or capacity to do without harming the games significantly. Things like "make it open world but keep using an engine that struggles with open world scales".
This just continually caused huge issues, lead to games that were unfinished and buggy on release, and when combined with microsoft's abhorrent hiring and contracting policies often meant that they were haemorrhaging the people who knew how to fix problems as and when the problems arose to need fixing.
Combine that with the multiplayer chasing trends with competitive due to skewed marketer ideas on what the multiplayer should be, and suddenly you have games few people want to play.
I think it's really unsurprising the games have been struggling so much in that context. Microsoft and the 343 higherups made an environment extremely hostile to any of the artists and creatives doing their work well and then the result was predictably not good.
The vast majority of 343 employees were long time halo fans who played the games as kids and grew up with it. I think they could have knocked it out of the park with an employer with better business and management practices.
I still play the OG halo games and on fan projects that get their multiplayers back up on PC. The campaign for CE in particular will always be a huge inspiration in my projects, but seeing that people just like me got to work on halo itself only to have corporate suits wreck everything will always be heart breaking.
But I think those suits are fundamentally to blame, not consumers and not 343s employees. The corporate changes and demands rarely to never aligned with what fans want and never aligned with what devs wanted to do, just with corporate misunderstandings and monetary demands from ""data driven"" marketers
You are truthing and not just commenting "whose we"
As a former Microsoft contract employee, I agree with you 120%.
@@lambdadelta3105
The devs put cat ears into halo.
Don't tell me they are not responsible.
@@343RuinedHalo So what? Cats are cute, deal with it.
@@343RuinedHalo You mean the Cat ears the community loved and bought en mass
I disagree, the players had nothing to do with Halos downfall, bar those enabling 343s greed. It was the dismantling of Halos charm and "party style" that we experienced in 5 and Infinite. Im sure many purists would disagree, but Halo 4 despite its flaws, still felt like Halo. It had those vibes, very hard for me to explain but if you play it enough you might see what Im getting at. Halo 4 was the last Halo that put fun first. Starting in 5, the shift to competitive elements and greedy monetization is what ruined everything. This carried over to Infinite, especially with hyper aggressive SBMM, more than 95% of the armor being locked behind a paywall, and the severe lack of social elements. It really doesnt matter that Infinite has the best forge and customs if the fun first mentality doesnt accompany it. This is why Bungie Halo and in my eyes, Halo 4, will always be better than modern releases. Just my two cents though.
Sidenote: Halo 2 Anniversary Multiplayer is also really good, no idea why people dont talk about it.
I think consumers hold agency. I remember Halo 4 being panned, maybe I was in the wrong crowd.
the 'fans' just yelled halo 4 sucks and didn't articulate what they ment. other than sprint(y'all can do sniper trick shots down hallways and shoot someone out of moving vehicle but can't a dude running....ok)
the mp trying to copy cod was bad. it was still crazy fun for me and my brothers.
they want the flood back.... the covenant back(gears territory now), 'why did you kill cortana 343'? who is the didact/librarian?...............my head hurts i'm stopping here
@@caliginousmoira8565 Now Im not against sprint. But the main argument against it is it ruins the map design, as maps need to be made with sprint in account. It wasnt about the speed of sprinting itself, Im of the opinion that sliding is way worse and breaks games more than sprint ever could.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op The only arguments against Halo 4 I saw at the time was sprint, loadouts, and art style being bad. Me and my friends only remember it being fun and it still being fun to this day. You probably stumbled upon an early Halo 4 hate echo chamber.
@@caliginousmoira8565 Ah yes, why can't you sprint in DOOM or Quake or any of those games either. It's because the game is more fun without it.
You're right bro.
WE changed the art style to look ugly asf for no reason
WE decided people who hate halo should make halo
WE turned multi-player into a Call of Duty wannabe.
WE made great marketing that turned out to be a lie in a garbage campaign
WE turned the multi-player from a fun party game with friends to a competitive sweats only with Infinite Warfare ahh movement and everything locked behind grinding a Casino
WE turned Infinite's whole campaign into the second level from CE
WE made the multi-player free to play so we had an excuse to lock everything behind a paywall, including F*CKING COLOURS.
WE MADE PLAYABLE ELITES A DISTANT MEMORY.
You're right. It's all our fault, and 343 has done nothing wrong.
they did nothing wrong...look at CoD the fanbase kept playing even though it changed and they evolved with the game,....halo fans were entitled narcissists that killed the game cause they wouldnt play it until it was exactly the way they wanted, HALO MCC has all the old gamemodes exactly how you want it yet you dont play that...Infinite was a return to form despite its bugs just like mw2 and mw3 yet CoD fans played halo fans left it to die...
lol bro the guy commenting on your post is a real one…. Can’t even think . Cod has always been the f same . Entitlement is 343 changing everything and calling it halo . It’s like cod Turning to halo then fans says they don’t like cod anymore. Bs argument. He says halo infinite is return to true form lol you can tell he never played the original 1-3 in his life . A half baked game release is true form lol halo infinite was one third of a true halo . Buggy and boring . I bet he thinks he’s a expert in all
Subjects . Probably sad that 343 is gone because he likes halo to be call of duty.
@@chargedx5768 "they did nothing wrong" lmfao. It's like out of the blue activision decides to add auto rechargeable shields and make the characters floaty as fuck and have holograms, armor lock and invisibility; like hello? of course the fans are gonna hate it (also lootboxes never had a place in halo), but call of duty has done a good job at keeping the same formula but making it feel fresh. The fact MCC has a bigger player base than infinite speaks fucking volumes. And lastly infnite was launched in the worse shape I have seen a game launch to this day, you couldn't even play with your friends without one disconnecting for no reason, spartans still automatically climb ledges to make it easier for zoomers to only focus on shooting, grenades did an absurd amount of damage and no friendly fire so you could blow up your friend and kill all enemies around him and he would be fine, the infinite melee punching glitch, not even mentioning no forge, no campaign, glitched vehicles. Just like LEGOAgenda said, you prob didn't play the trilogy, I still go back to reach and 3 from time to time with my friends to enjoy some good old campaign or multiplayer. Enjoy your dead game zoomer
@@chargedx5768that's like saying it's the customer's fault for not being happy when the product is completely from what it says on the box it came in. we just wanted a halo game.
@@chargedx5768 343 is not entitled to my time, money or care either. I go into a Halo game wanting to play Halo, not a sci-fi ripoff of Call of Duty or whatever popular FPS title is on top at the moment.
It wasn’t us buddy
you sure?
@ yep
oh it was.........
@@TheCouch-Co-Op yeah it was 343, imagine releasing a unfinished game and monetizing every single thing, I can't even go my favorite color set black on purple. it's just a poorly made cash grab. No story dlc, no griftball, no split-creen, No biome-diversty, No multiple enemy factions, no playable elites. overly monetized armor customization. they should've let us choose are own colors at least . But NOPE.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op he's correct, we didn't make the games no-one was asking for. We didn't put a skinsuit on a franchise and hoped the name alone would continue to sell. 343 came out and said they didn't know who master chief was/ that he was the main character. during like halo 4-5.
Dam, dislike to like ratio really isn't good. And tbh it's deserved, gotta think of the big picture rather than blaming it on the community. Dumbest thing you could say, really. The "we killed a game" doesnt work for everything bud.
This was such an L take bro. If its really because we got old, why did Halo 4 die immediately after launch and people went back to Reach? People were excited for that game but were let down when they finally got into their hands. Hell, even Infinite was even hyped on mainstream media and radio stations as "a return to form" before it was launched but also coincidentally died after people got it into their hands. Are you seeing a pattern here? Could it be the people stopped playing it because the game sucked and they were tired of being fooled? Spot the brain cell.
Halo 4 died, but Infinite did not; it definitely had a steep drop-off, but that's due to lack of content and technical issues. Infinite is still well populated, and even H5 still has a relatively active dedicated community. Honestly, if they could just stick the landing with a Halo game at launch, and follow it up with meaningful content, then it will be a success.
I remember getting 4 when it came out and playing it for a while, but it was so ugly visually and the multiplayer was so bad and it didn't have forge and it didn't have fun custom games. It just wasnt fun. All my friends and I continued playing Reach for years after 4 came out, and even after 5 came out, and the servers were still full!
@@lucius_caecilliusthat’s why they shut down the servers
This explains exactly how I felt on infinite let the down. The campaign/open world was trash and felt incomplete. I mainly play for the campaign then multiplayer. 4 was the last stomach able campaign been terrible since then
343's 2 biggest mistakes were:
- copying industry trends instead of actually innovating the gameplay
-trying to make the story character-driven instead of plot-driven
so, this is basically a 15 minute summary of halo’s history and then a few minutes saying that the actual reason the ip stopped being mainstream is because the devs tried to listen to the fans instead of doing whatever they want?
343 has been doing whatever they want for their entire existence. the Title Update for Reach was full of changes nobody liked. Halo 4’s gameplay and art style were made of changes that nobody wanted. Halo 5 basically just stayed the course and told everyone to go suck it. And Infinite was just a big cash grab on the part of the leadership. Hell, even unrelated stuff like the TV show ignored everything that fans actually said they wanted for decades and it’s almost universally hated.
if ignoring the fans and cooking your own way is how 343 is supposed to make good halo, then it should have a billion players right now. your point makes no sense. what am I missing?
Agreed
To be fair fans want halo to stay stagnant no sprint or anything. Just chief and blue lady. But only 1 Bungie game was even like that. Only 1
@@theangryimp1345 Sprint has demonstrably made the games worse, with map design and even weapon handling having to change to accommodate the faster movement. If it wasn't a problem, then 343 wouldn't have nerfed it into the ground in Infinite. People keep saying Halo needs it in order to "modernize", but successful games like Counter Strike and the Doom reboots are proof that isn't necessary.
@Horgler oh dear god. Go online and look the most played classic halo is reach... you guys are sudo intellectuals not game devs
If 343 made games that Halo fans actually wanted (and, you know, at least worked as intended at launch), then Halo would be fine.
I've seen this argument before.
"If Bungie made games that Halo fans actually wanted the Halo would be fine" said the Halo 3 players who didn't want to play the wildly popular Reach.
And this was brought up against 343 who followed Bungie's support for wanting Halo 4 to follow in Reach's footsteps which also (at the time) paralleled what the majority of players wanted, a mechanical evolution and follow up to reach.
@@zalrohglekgolo6149 Reach sucked, and I knew plenty of Halo players who went back to H3 not long after Reach released. Even with new friends who I've introduced to the series for the first time with MCC tend to rank Reach lower than most of the other games in the collection. Halo 4 should've been a sequel to Halo 3, not a sequel to a prequel spinoff game.
No, it wouldn't be. The "fans" as you describe would actually be a very limited group for a "mainstream" franchise. Halo needs to evolve, not backtrack.
@@Sahlan_Ahamed You can evolve Halo while still respecting what makes the series special. 343 has yet to do this.
@@RednekGamurzHalo 3 was in the top 10 games on Xbox Live months after Reach launched.
A game lives and dies by it's player base. So if you wanna say we, the players, killed halo, sure. But a game is only as good as the developers make it, and Halo hasn't been as good as it could be in years.
I look at it like this. The devs ruined the game, so the community got up and left. I think that is an accurate portrayal of the events that transpired.
However, instead of blaming the devs (who develop the game) for ruining the game, this fool is blaming the community (who doesnt develop the game) lol.
Fans didn't kill Halo.
If anything, fans are the reason the game is even alive in the first place.
Most of the maps in Infinite are just Forge maps made by the COMMUNITY.
It shouldn't be the players' job to essentially make content for you.
The reason why there's this notion of "we killed Halo" is because 343 abandoned the original fans and birthed a new generation that divided the fanbase even further. We see this all the time in other IPs like Star Wars, Assassin's Creed, Dragon Age, Rainbow Six, etc.
Kids who grew up with the 343 games are now adults who likely never experienced the originals other than the MCC ports, but years later 343 will manage to anger even them (we already see it happening with Infinite; given how much people are jumping in to praise both Halo 4 and 5 now).
Halo lost its soul because 343 constantly tried making the game appeal to the modern audience while chasing trends and making the game competitive-focused, rather than simply making the game FUN and sticking with the gimmicks that made Halo cool to begin with.
Remember splitscreen? The thing Bonnie Ross promised after Halo 5?
"No one plays splitscreen anymore! It's outdated and irrelevant!"
F those who have siblings/families then. I guess games like Smash are irrelevant now too.
Remember Assassinations?
"They were pointless and ruined the flow of the game!"
They looked cool. Just disable them for competitive playlists.
Remember playable Elites?
"They're too big!"
They looked cool. Just disable them for competitive playlists.
Remember dual wielding?
"It's imbalanced!"
Once again, it was fun and looked cool. Just make it an option for customs and disable it for competitive playlists instead of axing it from the game entirely.
It probably won't be long until 343 Industudios decides to remove hijacking and guns altogether. What's crazy is the fact that 343 defenders still want a Battle Royale but are strongly against all the things mentioned.
The "We'll just have to wait and see" or "Maybe they'll do better next time!" is exactly the reason why 343 keeps doing what they're doing. It's literally insane.
"We" may enable them, but in the end, 343 are the ones making the games, not us.
..."we killed Halo"
Spends entire video talking about every other factor that actually contributed then throwing in "yall are getting old idk"
You know a video is bad when it resorts to out and out lies within the first minute... "You could move and shoot at the same time... nobody had done that yet." You could do that on both Goldeneye, its direct sequel Perfect Dark and plenty of other N64 fps shooters. The controls were fully customizable. One of the presets had you moving around with C buttons and aiming with the joystick. Another fully customizable console shooter was Quake 3 on the Dreamcast, released over a year before Halo. The demo shown at Macworld wasn't a real time strategy game either.
Lol Yeah.
Also, games like QUAKE 2 for PS1 could be played like the PC version with the Playstation mouse accessory, and QUAKE 3: ARENA for the Dreamcast could be played with the Dreamcast Keyboard and mouse accessories, with online multiplayer and matchmaking, which once again gives console gamers a PC experience.
So, a "fix", as well as "moving and shooting" experience, as well as a PC experience, was already possible on consoles in the 90s before Halo released in 2001.
This is the problem with popular games and people who are either biased, misinformed, or uninformed...
Popular games on consoles are usually incorrectly credited with innovations they didn't do first, which leads to games like Halo, and even Goldeneye 007, being overrated, over praised, and wrongly credited with things they did not innovate on, or do first.
Misinformation/disinformation is a real problem and needs to rectified at any opportunity.
So, good on you for doing that. 👍🏻
A channel called couch co-op saying we killed Halo is kind of ironic.
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.look at the CoD the fanbase(even though they are degenerates) they kept playing even though the core game changed and they evolved with the game,....halo fans were entitled narcissists that killed the game cause they wouldnt play it until it was exactly the way they wanted, HALO MCC has all the old gamemodes exactly how you want it yet you dont play that...Infinite was a return to form despite its bugs just like mw2 and mw3 yet CoD fans played halo fans left it to die.
@chargedx5768 I've put over 100 hours into the MMC in the last couple of months. Even halo 4. And yes, if the game is not what you are expecting or wanting, you're not obligated to play it. Halo 4 multi-player tried so hard to be like CoD. Infinite was a mess when it first came out, crazy amount of micro transactions, long periods in between content drops, and for a long time, hardly any game modes or maps. Infinite is actually in a decent place now. But damage has been done there already. In regards to MW3, that game was hated for being mostly a DLC for MW2.
Everyone remember that 343 is Microsoft, and always has been. Bungie got to be it's own entity that negotiated with Microsoft. 343 and Halo Studios are being managed by people in microsoft that have no taste or talent in the creatice world.
devs killed it.
if a game sucks people wont play.
No, 343 killed it
What about Microsoft?
@TheCouch-Co-Op Microsoft shares a lot of blame for letting 343 screw around with their flagship IP for 12 years, and they should have either put the studio on something else or scrapped it altogether after MCC, but at the end of the day, 343 made these games.
Microsoft calls the design direction shots. There are multiple examples of 343 devs going on record stating that they had limited creative autonomy and often had ideas like the Helldivers-esque ODST game shut down.
@@TheCouch-Co-Op Let's pretend for a minute that 343 had zero creative control. Design decisions are far from the only problems with these games. Did Microsoft want MCC to be unplayable for years, and for them to take out the credits and loading screens of the original games? Or did Microsoft prevent them from shipping assassinations, forge, theater, split-screen, and coop altogether? What about only having a handful of game modes, and two seasons a year? Surely that was Microsoft's decision. Yes, they're both at fault. I don't defend either of them.
The argument is that 343 specifically killed Halo, which I don't think is accurate.
They shouldn't have gotten rid of the split screen.
We? NO. "We" are not part of 343, "We" are not part of Microsoft, "We" aren't the Board of Directors in that Corporate game.
In fact, "We" the fans are the ones who kept Halo relevant, We the Fans go Ape Shit Excited when we hear that there's a Major, Fan Made Project or Mod.
In fact, Games like Splitgate, found a fanbase, because "We" found out it was built Based off the gameplay of "Pre-Halo 5" Multiplayer.
Yeah, we the Fans have bickered, and had negative opinions.
But you wanna know what's worst that a Negative opinion?
When the fan base just stops talking about Halo. 😢
So No, "We" didn't kill Halo. "We" were the LIFE SUPPORT that kept Halo breathing in the ICU. 🥺🙏
Halo invented shooting while moving?... this is the dumbest take I've ever heard for a video. Comment sections aren't even this bad.
In goldeneye, you could move and shoot with the stick - the C buttons were for strafing and looking up and down. That that was the default default control scheme but you could also use the Turok style theme where the stick would look all around and turn with the c buttons moving forward and strafing - so exactly the same as today's controls only left-handed style.
In the first modern FPS game ever made, Wolfenstein 3D, back in 1994, on the port made for Super Nintendo, you could also move and shoot at the same time, or strafe and shoot at the same time.
The guy who made the video is lolcow material. What a joke.
This should've been the statement "People were stating halo 4 was a CoD clone with shields, by the time Halo 5 came out they really doubled down on CoD"
Thought the title was clickbait, just to find out that the case is actually being made that the fans are responsible for Halo’s downfall.
I specifically laughed at the quote “It was difficult to get a beat of what the audience wanted”. Halo 4 came out and changed pretty much everything about Halo; 90% of people hated it. I’d say that’s a pretty clear cut response by the fans. Then, instead of listening, 343 doubled down and strayed even further from Halo’s roots with 5. There’s your nail in the coffin right there.
Turning around and saying that the fans killed Halo is an entirely lost cause. It’s like sacking the stoker on a steam train and wondering why the train won’t move anymore. As long as this attitude persists, Halo will NEVER succeed again.
Don't forget the asset flip that was CEA, and the state MCC was in for years.
I personally don't think Halo is a dead franchise, it just isn't a cultural icon like it used to be. In hindsight, Halo fatigue was inevatable. I'm not sure if this was like this for everyone but growing up, Halo was everywhere. My grocery store sold the sealed minifigure packs, big box stores had dedicated sections (granted it was smaller than the Lego section) for Halo Mega Bloks and my local gamestore was packed with Halo merchandise like caps, t-shirts, display models and action figures. Honestly, there was no way they could keep up with much interest for a franchise with 3 year release schedule games. Halo certainly isn't as popular as it was before but I don't doubt that it's still profitable.
If Halo were not profitable, the franchise would have already been shut down. We know very well that Microsoft does not tolerate failed products. What Microsoft lacks is investment; they could create different types of games with Halo. It doesn’t have to be just about Chief and Cortana.
343 killed halo
Still waiting for the "we" part of this. I'm at the end and it still just sounds like "343 did it" with a few criticisms of Reach tacked on.
343 game devs were literally hired to create a halo game that halo player's didn't like she specifically hired people who didn't like halo. Her whole thing was to make halo not halo. We as the community did not pick her. We as a community called her out and Microsoft took decades to fire her. We didn't kill halo we were simply forced to watch it die.
Don't think the response to this video went quite according to plan huh?
343 and Microsoft killed Halo. Don't dare blame the fans for it.
Be honest man, how much did 343 pay you to make this video?
Don't you blame me for 343's crimes
Is it us? Strange didn't know i was in 343's management... I guess they didn't either. 😂
I find it frustrating when TH-camrs act as if they’re uncovering some grand truth about Halo while positioning themselves as the ultimate authority on the topic. Your title and approach seem to blame the community for Halo’s decline, which is completely off the mark. Let me break it down clearly: the issues with Halo stem from 343 Industries, not the community.
343 has mishandled what was once an incredible franchise, turning it into something that no longer resonates with long-time fans. They strayed from the elements that made the series great. Halo deserves better, and so do its fans. Content like yours feels out of touch and overly critical of the wrong people. It’s not helpful to shift the blame onto the community when the responsibility lies elsewhere.
343 did sorry
my bad
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As a Halo Infinite forger, I am going back to Halo MCC to build new maps that are actually fun! I missed the fun game nights of MCC and never actually had a fun game night with Halo Infinite 😢 I will be modding Halo 2 Anniversary with new block colors and textures 😊🎉🎉
Crazy how TO THIS DAY there are still people grasping at whatever they can to blame Halo's death on anything OTHER than 343i
It’s crazy that to this day halo fans completely ignore how toxic the fanbase is towards every halo game each release. Y’all have been hating on halo since H2. It’s also crazy how yall completely ignore Microsoft’s role in literally everything being the biggest contributor to halos issues.
@@swoops7687 Really? I don't remember people complaining about Microsoft during OG Halo days. Makes you think huh?
@ people LITERALLY did though, there’s literally evidence about this and Microsoft has had its hands in halo since CE. Maybe if you actually, oh idk, looked at the history you wouldn’t be so poorly informed? Whaddya know.
I feel like this video didn't go into nearly enough detail about the actual thesis, that being how trying to balance both modern trends and fanservice resulted in 3 halo games that were confused, unfocused, and unpolished. I also don't think it really fits the title, at all. Arguing "we' killed it implies that if 343 had fully engaged in fanservice, that the result would have been even worse than what we got. This point doesn't really follow from anything the video said, and, arguably, the fact that Halo Infinite's current profitability is brought up outright undermines it - Infinite was easily the most fanservice-y of all 3 of them, and it's widely regarded as the best title. How did "we" kill it if the closest we got to what we wanted also happened to be the closest 343 got to actually succeeding?
You spent the majority of this video detailing halos history and its most recent stumbles and the cause of them. Yet you say it’s the fans fault for being where it is right now? Halos current state (monetary or otherwise) is a result of multiple factors and tho some of the more vitriolic fans may have contributed to it, to say it’s the fans’ fault for halos current state being because we “grew up” is grossly hyperbolic and obfuscates those very factors you brought up in your own video.
The amount of 343 cope in the comments is hilarious.
If you mean "we" you mean Microsoft and 343 never making a good Halo game since they got the IP...
No WE did not, Frank O connor and microsoft did
We didnt kill it companies killed gaming anything for a profit plus people making games dont understand how games were made to just have fun instead of pay to play
oi dingus its 343 studios not us
I believe there are two things that made halo special. #1 The first 3 halos were revolutionary. Halo CE used the dual sticks that worked really well and made console shooters feel good, Halo 2 came in with tons of online feature and heavily revolutionized multiplayer and its features, halo 3 added a sand box mode and theatre that let you watch back your clips you saved (to be clear bungie didn't make dual sticks or the online features but they made great use out of them). #2 they were their own game. In my opinion, Reach was trying too much to be like COD and the later games tried even harder to be like COD. That would be fine except that COD already existed so why play a wanna be when you have the real thing?
You're off your rocker with this click bait. Halo got panned because 343 and Microsoft spent 13+ years trying to tell Halo fans what they wanted, and never delivering what Bungie worked hard to establish for a decade straight.
Crowbcat nailed it, the leadership was (and unfortunately, technically still is) to blame.
An underlying reason 343's Halos appealed less as a fun party experience, which is massively overlooked by everyone, is the inclusion of enhanced mobility. What EM does is raise the skill floor, making it less appealing to those wanting a more simple, fun experience, such as your housemates joining in on a Halo couch/split screen party.
Or to put this all another way, EM raised the game's minimum sweat level.
Not trying to be negative or anything, but there were plenty of FPS that used dual analog sticks before Halo 1 came out. Halo 1 did create aim assist, but not "moving and shooting at the same time". TimeSplitters on PS2 which came out a whole 13 months before Halo had it. Quake 2 on PS1 had it as default assuming you had the DS1 controller and that was in 1999 a few years before Halo came out. A mostly forgotten gem that released 6 months before Halo was Red Faction which also had "Moving and shooting at the same time", along with multiple vehicles you get to control including Flying gun ships, mini submarines. It also allowed for terraforming terrain, which worked in multiplayer too.
Point being Halo gets credited for plenty of innovative mechanics that it didn't pioneer (except for its specific brand of aim assist, totally a Halo 1 contribution, and regenerative shields). While not technically new mechanics, Halo was just very well polished.
god I hate these types of videos. I guarantee if Halo Studios released a trailer for the next game it will be #1 on trending
First God and now Halo. What does humanity NOT kill?
I don't think any one factor could be to blame for Halo's downfall. The original audience absolutely got older (and with age comes grouchiness). Bungie wanted to branch out, leaving that audience on a bit of a sour note from Reach in terms of gameplay direction. 343 took over and didn't have the experience (or care) to listen to fans and manage the game appropriately both in terms of gameplay, art, and narrative, subsequently failing to either retain the audience or build a new one. Microsoft went hard on micromanaging 343 once Bungie left, and implemented further monetisation practices.
The end result was that people on all sides agreed with certain aspects from these factors, whilst others disagreed. Eventually, everyone was just arguing with each other over everything and nothing. I agree in that sprint typified this. Halo's audience, community, and connection was lost on all sides... Although that seems to be the way of gaming in general for a lot of old franchises these days.
Nice video, G!
Thanks! Lots of different factors.
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Rage-bait take/Engagement farming, that's the reason behind this video.
I do believe the biggest culprits of Halo’s decline is 343 Industries or “Halo Studios.” They rarely acted on fan feedback and often took away past elements in previous games. Why? “Creative freedom.” Halo became Bonnie Ross’ Marvel, and she, as well as her associates drove it into the ground with beyond poor management. The secondary issue was that gamers didn’t have the attach rate to Halo as they did Call of Duty. It had several games that was previously exclusive; also hindering its capacity to reach a larger audience. So, when their fandom mostly moved- on, the franchise nose- dived even further without support. Now Halo has to deal with DEI reimagined remakes. Oh…, I’m sure that’ll go swimmingly. That said, sometimes people are too harsh on the franchise. Just look at Halo Infinite’s campaign or Halo Wars 2: Was still good stuff.
Halo wars 2 was made by certain affinity not 343
@ Incorrect: Certain Affinity has helped 343 co- develop with several Halo fps titles. Creative Assembly co- developed Halo Wars 2 with 343 Industries. In fact, 343 began development as early as 2014, choosing to approach SEGA and their development studio, Creative Assembly to help finish the product by early 2017. Certain Affinity has nothing to do with Halo Wars 2.
Yeah sorry, you lost me when you started complaining about imaginary issues like "dEi". Normal people don't complain about dei. "Certain Affinity has nothing to do with Halo Wars 2" Yeah that's a straight up lie.
@@Johnspartan296 There’s literally nothing in Halo Wars 2’s credits claiming any ties to Certain Affinity. That’s both on console and P.C. - There’s no mention whatsoever. Some older members of Bungie whom worked on the Halo license work at Certain Affinity, but it’s up in the air of they’ll be able to have more of an active decision- making process over Halo Studios in the future. D.E.I. is constantly worried about by online gamers. Sweet Baby Inc., the forced diversity, equity and inclusion, as well as their decision- making to hire developers who have literally admitted to publicly hating Halo on social media all have had fans up in arms. It’s definitely not fictitious or unworthy of investigation.
Halo reminds me of the Fast and the Furious movies. The first, second, and third were good, but now they just add random stuff that doesn't make any sense.
20:30 I've done that. Normal people know that when people say "sprint" it's something that can't be done for a long time.
Normal people also know that it is possible to fire a weapon whilst sprinting, even though you can't hit anything you're trying to aim at.
Normal people also question why on earth the developers would add something that makes things go faster, when they get motion sick just from normal Halo Trilogy gameplay. Isn't the point to attract more people to the game? If so, why have sprint, and other things that make the gameplay too fast for casuals to win at?
Don't take a page out of 343's book and blame the fans. We had no decisions in the making of these games, it was always up to Microsoft AND 343 to do their homework and then make a game we'd all love. Or at least have some of their own directors play the previous games, because they tried to move on from the old Halo games as much as possible. If they had someone who loved and was passionate about the original games, we would have gotten more of them instead of something completely detached. And Halo isn't magical, there are objective attributes and characteristics of it that 343 could have reverse engineered and evolved. It is possible for 343 to reasonably please almost all Halo fans, they just haven't done it yet.
I don't know how you can say with a straight face that Halo fans killed Halo when your name is "Couch Co-Op", something integral to Halo that 343 removed. This is something that 343 promised 2 times now and lied both times, it's no wonder why people hate them. Stop being a shill and allow 343 to take accountability, why are you defending a corporation for literally lying multiple times? This type of shit shouldn't be forgiven and forgotten; this is a permanent stain on their record.
Halo fans arguing over sprint isn't our fault, it is simply our desires. It is entirely 343's fault for arguing back with us when they should have listened to what their consumers are asking for and remove it. You don't see these types of silly arguments in other gaming communities because game developers usually aren't this stubborn and stupid. If sprint was added to other similar games like Doom or Quake, everyone in those communities would be very opposed to it: because sprint goes against the core of these arena type shooters. But we've never had to see any of that unfold, because the developers of those games already understand that sprint is bad, they aren't going to test it out and argue stubbornly with their fanbase for an entire decade. They aren't going to try and force it into their next game and reach a half-assed compromise like what happened in Halo Infinite. That would be fucking ridiculous for a game studio to do. I don't think I've ever seen another studio or company in general try to argue about something so intensely with their consumers instead of just giving us what we want and collecting our money.
And as for Halo fans who like sprint, they are the minority and shouldn't be listened to if 343 wants to revive Halo/make money. Halo fans who like sprint came into the franchise during 343's games, they aren't going to be the ones to stick around for Halo's roots. And Halo going to its roots is the only way this game will become popular again, so what needs to be done is obvious. Stop catering to the audience that was never there for them, and start listening to what Halo players have been asking for, soon to be 15 years now. Half Life 2, Doom Eternal, and Counter Strike 2 are some of the biggest FPS games of all time, and none of them have sprint. Doom Eternal was a very recent game and Counter Strike 2 is still one of the biggest FPS games at this moment. Halo doesn't and never needed sprint to succeed.
Yeah, it was the people who just wanted to play a classic Halo title and didn't eat the slop who killed the franchise, not the people who were given millions of dollars and a decade who just produced failure after failure who did it.....
Also love how you think of yourself as the arbiter of which issues and topics get to be important.
343 actively makes the older Bungie games look worse
When did "WE" steer the games in a different direction and away from what made the community love the series? When did "WE" make videos using the Mister Chief cartoon on how we are kids who don't understand what the adults are doing when it comes to making random cards that give players and unbalanced and pay to win weapon system? When did "WE" leave an entire game collection to rot for half a decade only to later come back to it when the studio wasn't making enough money? When did "WE" implement predatory business tactics? When did "WE" hire devs who didn't like Halo and wanted it to change? When did "WE" relegate the stories to be concluded or started in books? When did "WE" fire entire departments that would've worked on the so called 10 year platform for Halo? When did "WE" put a clause in 343's hiring contract that anyone brought on board was a temporary contractor? When did "WE" spend more money than any other franchise to make multiple versions of one game only to scrap them and in that time not communicate AT ALL about what's next or what's being worked on? When did "WE" develop a cobbled together engine that "couldn't handle changes to the menu UI"? When did "WE" lie about basic features that have not been a problem for ANY entry or even ANY other studio making ANY other game?
"WE" were punked time and time again by false promises. "WE" were tricked into thinking that they were listening to "US" as they implemented the opposite. "WE" had to sit there and watch as 343 and Microsoft scrambled to figure out how to corporatize the game and turn it into a money sink. "WE" had no choice but to sit there and watch them fumble the ball every time they tried to do something. I'm sick of hearing youtubers and 343 "fans" blame all of the problems the games face and all of the technical and financial mishandling on the consumers time and time again. 343 and Microsoft both have been yelled at to fix netcode, fix the cheating so rampant in MCC, fix the asinine cosmetic systems, fix the myriad of bugs that plague each release because they assume we want a new game the day after the last one released instead of taking time to actually polish the game. But no, when we offer ideas the vast majority of the community request or need, 343 and Microsoft give corporate PR responses as to why it's too hard. "WE" offer the solutions to "OUR" problems that "THEY" make.
So no, "WE" didn't kill anything. "343 and Microsoft" killed Halo and we sat there screaming as it died.
We did not kill it lol, Microsoft did….
Dude... Bungie did not want to stop making Halo games. In fact they were more than happy to keep going but because of the high pressure and poor treatment from Microsoft, Bungie wanted to leave and take Halo with them. Microsoft, however, did not like that and made a deal with Bungie (this happened after Halo 2's release): make 3 more Halo games and you can leave but we keep the franchise. Bungie reluctantly agreed to this. I don't know how you can say Bungie wanted to stop making Halo games when Joe Staten and Marty O'Donnell have gone on record saying that during their Bungie days, making Halo games and continuing the IP was all they wanted due to how it was beloved by everyone. Also we, the community, did not kill Halo; 343 Industries did with their radical changes and their mistreatment of the Halo community.
“343 and Microsoft” since 4 we immediately saw the direction it was going wasn’t good.
343/ Halo Studios is Halo's error, and they rightly bear the blame.
Broken promises, non-functional multiplayer during launch, horrendous desync issues that lasted for over a year. That's not even getting into the MCC debacle.
So 343🖕get that up ya.
I'm sorry what? you just said in the entire of the video things that where changed in halo, sound/art/vision/story/music/monetization etc. Then in the end is our fault "we go older" like we just got bored of halo. hell no it simple doesn't catter to the halo fan anymore. if your favorite steak house suddenly changed to serve only salad and you don't go there anymore isn't because we got sick of meat.
the fact I'm actually bothering to respond to a halo video just means i still care more than i thought i stopped caring
343 with the help of Microsoft Studios killed Halo.
Sprint killed Halo. Obviously, other factors were involved. But sprint alone started the downfall of halo.
Honestly, the fact you have so few subscribers is criminal. This is some peak gaming video essay stuff right here.
The only thing "we" are guilty of is letting 343i live for so long, and just changing the name of the studio is not gonna fix fundamental issues within it
Uncle Phil: "We?" *UPROARIOUS LAUGHTER* "We." *HYSTERICAL LAUGHTER*
"WE?!" *EXIT STAGE CENTER*
Lmao I thought the same thing!
th-cam.com/video/xgtv8PWdeIQ/w-d-xo.html
"We killed it"
Oh wait you're serious, let me laugh even harder.
Seriously, you can't actually believe this.
Everyone died... except Noble 6, he's hiding in a cave somewhere perfectly fine. Forgot his helmet but that's okay, he's just living a simple life in the cave in no risk of dying whatsoever.
And Jun
@ Ah, right, my mistake. They’re both in the cave enjoying their days out of service and are in no danger of dying
Halo 3 was the biggest launch of all time.
Halo 3 was THE video game. Change my mind.
@@GH0STCCC-vu5rzidk, GTA 5 was an absolute titan when it launched. I remember going into most shops and entire cabinets would be filled with copies of GTA. Crazy times.
Halo is not an arena shooter 😭
Acting like Halo 4 is "mixed" is nonsense the game is dumpster fire. They made the warthog sound like a lawnmower, and retconned all of the lore.
We? We work in 343i or Halo Studios?
This one is a miss-fire, mate. Probably because you didn't pace your shots with the DMR. Reload and run it again.
The bloom gottem
343 killed the game that's the reason halo mcc has more players and sprint was only good in reach
343 continuous flop was because they pushed the game to be "modern". Halo 4-5 added all this movement tech which would be great in another game. Halo infinite failed because it still modern in how you customize your character. Halo was original a party game, make a cool guy and play online. The purpose of multiplayer was to find players to fill out a custom game roaster. Halo 3/reach had a popular pro scene because THE GAME WAS FUN. Fun games will always get a competitive scene. If you build a game to be competitive, you'll get players but the game wont gain a large player base. A grand majority of gamers are casual, and 343 didn't understand that. 343 easily could have made the game's lore into great games, but they instead focused on the wrong parts of multiplayer. Halo infinite took way to long to get forge and a server browser, had they launched with that I promise you the game would have been better received.
Who is “we” ?
SYNOPSIS:
Halo, from CE to Reach, was the popular console + lore game for normal people.
Now it has neither the identity nor the gameplay of a Halo game.
[Part 1 & 2 of "Andy - Bunker Dweller" 's "Halo 4 is worse than you remember - Halo 4 Review" is the most coincise and well explained source I can give to expand on how I see what 343 did to Halo; I can NOT add more text, otherwise this comment would be too long for TH-cam's limits.]
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I am not normal people, most people don't sweat with aim, strategy and so on.
To make my own opinion of the game I got my Xbox 360 on the 4k tv and bought a copy of Halo 3 used (I bought all Halo games but CE, which I have on the HDD of a modded XBOX, but I only +) and finished that.
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Halo is not about quick reflexes, precise shots, ammo and tool management and so on, it's about getting presented a cool setting and play it with the same ease you have with wearing a sock.
You play through the levels getting driven by the story, acting out as the protagonist and witnessing what happens to him on the front row.
Hard and Legendary difficulties, and multiplayer's sweat, was there for those normal people who liked the game more and wanted a bit more of a challenge, while easy mode was for younger teens and people who just can't match what's needed to play in normal difficulty.
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HALO IS NOT DOOM, AND THAT IS OK.
As said before Halo is about living a story, the good version of the "narrative driven games" that now more than not have taken "the boring route", both at the high and low end of the budget scale, regardless of success (Halo makes you want to play it, but the latest God of Wars make you want to watch them on TH-cam instead, skipping ALL the gameplay).
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Functionally Halo's story is over. Except for one or two stories which could be adapted as prequel games no more can be done forwards (that is what ODST and Reach were),
at best infinite themed missions or multiplayer games can be created with the Halo theme (the RTS games + Infinite's multiplayer prove it), but if too much gets changed the game which ONCE WAS for normal people now has not only to popurarly compete with the slop that is CoD,
but has also to mechanically compete with wither tactical FPS or movement shooters which both have better refined those aspects already,
all while losing the Halo identity it has had since the first instalment: "military science fiction where humanity has to endure an assault over a long lost, ancient truth".
Halo's story is over, and that's ok, and that's good.
What story can be told now?
Ever since Prometheans were added in Halo 4 the game just did not feel the same. I would’ve been happy if the franchise ended at 3 or kept the enemies the same in the series.
The flood did not exist in Halo 4 I recall after beating it.
343 killed Halo. They hated working on it and wanted to work on something else but Microsoft and fans wanted Halo to continue so they messed with it to the point where they redid the designs of already established characters so they wouldn't use Bungie's design.
I actually couldn't disagree with this take more if I wanted to.
No the Halo community did not kill Halo, it was 343 Industries. You fail to mention the betrayal that we faced through each release that 343 did, and how they wanted Halo to not be ours anymore. I'll lay out some examples:
MCC's launch
Halo 5's deletion of splitscreen
Halo 4's implementation of starting with a Plasma Pistol and sticky grenades rendering the vehicle gameplay useless
Micro transactions becoming the main line of income
Hiring contract workers to build a new engine which is now being abandoned that costed millions
The Halo TV show by the way... awful
I could honestly go on, and maybe I'll make my own video about it. Realistically, we the community may have been fractured, but it was not our fault. Sprint arguments were there, but guess what? They were held by few people. I used to be on Halo Waypoint's chat forum before 343 killed it [another blow to the community btw], and there may have been some forums about this being an issue but they were few and far between.
I think you missed me with this one, and hopefully most of the Halo community. We're not going to get served a plate of shit and not complain about it. You've got your work cut out for you with this argument, as them betraying our trust constantly is something that Bungie never managed to do to us once. If anything, they overdelivered.
There're so many points I could make about this, but I think the best rebuttal would be the "343 is like an abusive spouse" joke I've seen many times. Despite everything; 4, 5, art style, gameplay... I stuck with this franchise. Always telling myself that Halo's return was right around the corner. I literally cried when 343 released "Through the Trees." Then I played through the campaign and tried the multiplayer once and I was done. My hope for Halo died. And it only took me TEN YEARS!
We were too negative? No, we just didn't want to lose something we loved. That, and 343 never even listened to us to begin with! At least not until Infinite, though I think it's very clear they still didn't really want to.
There's a reason Bungie didn't get along with Microsoft. It's because they were trying to avoid everything 343 became.
not we. it was me and im proud
good job
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So we're back at this phase of the fandom again huh?
Bullshit they changed it and it died, it s not on us it s on them.
They ruined the lore, character assasineted chief and cortana, changed an iconic art style and sfx for something generic.
They threw away everything that made the game fun in both campaign and online and never understood what made halo good.
Bad level design, damb ai, enemys that aren t fun to fight, absent to mid at best vehicles sections, bad physics and many more sins.
And the sprint argumemt that u made at the end is stupid, of course the avg fan doesn t know anything about what made halo good from a game design view, they dont know about stuff like the "30 seconds" and the "golden triangle" (that is brutally murdered by advanced movement) but yet they know that the 343 games are at their core, from a quality standpoit, average.
And you know why? It s because at their core they aren t halo games, they don t have engadging story with unforgettable soundtracks and replayble gameplays scenarios that u can expirience in coop. And they arent fully completed games at dayone but rather sloppy early access with tons of stuff in the store that was once free
It was never the players fault, and I feel that's obvious. In the video, there aren't even any reasonable points leading to it being the player's fault. Still though, it's always nice to analyze what went wrong and how to fix it, which is probably something the people at Halo Studios should be doing. I really hope they're doing that
Who even are "you" ?
Bungie produced a trilogy and with three supplementary games that fleshed out the backstory and world. 343 tried to start a trilogy THREE TIMES OVER, bollocked it so hard they had to change their name to ditch some of the heat, and are now scrambling out a reboot because current continuity is borked. Don't put Halo's death on my shoulders, i just wanted the green man to shoot aliens.
343 killed it not the fans
I still love halo to this day, the companies failed us not us them
One name:
*343i*
Infinite is fun if you waited with starting it for the first time until the last quarter of this year xD
Still playing CE multiplayer active, as well as MCC mods and Infinite feels like a true successor to Halo 3, unlike anything that came before it. Just sad that we lost so many great alien guns from H3.
I have to be honest here, as a long time Halo fan, we're not responsible for the many mistakes 343 and Microsoft have been consistently making when making Halo. Their insistence on keeping Halo as a competitive shooter and changing shit that didn't need changing has only ever been, and will likely continue to be a detriment to the franchise, for as long as they persist in doing so. Infinite was a step in the right direction, but they still didn't properly commit to returning to form, and the game is in this weird state of trying to actually be closer to the Bungie Era titles, but still insisting on being more of the same, whilst also, yet again, making more changes that didn't need to happen. (Looking at you, Bulldog. It would've been fine if it remained alongside the Shotgun, but it outright replaces it, and in my opinion, it's for the worse.)
I'll actually even vouch for Halo 5 here in some capacity at least. As a Halo game? It's easily the worst entry we've gotten, and it's so far off the mark, to call it a Halo game is laughable. As a movement shooter? It actually could've stood a chance, and I would even wager it could've thrived as it's own standalone game. But evidently, that didn't happen, because 343 and Microsoft seem to have no god damn clue about what they're working on half the time.
But the biggest crime of them all, is that they've had over a decade to try and make a good Halo game that actually dares to try and come close to compare, only to have fallen short at their latest and closest attempt yet. They've had plenty of chances, but at this point, unless the remake is absolute perfection and genuinely captures the charm of the Bungie Era titles, I don't see Halo making it's big comeback in the long term. And honestly, it shouldn't have been this way. Halo could've remained a titan amongst the FPS genre. But clearly that isn't the case.
And I can promise you, we're not the ones to blame. The real Halokiller, was 343 and Microsoft.
Also, I know I stroked Bungie's dick for a good while there, but let me tell you, I got no faith in the Bungie of today doing a good job at it either, based on my experiences and what I've been hearing about Destiny 2. Unless they suddenly give a shit again, and get the right folks aboard who not only know what they're doing, but actually care enough to give us an amazing game again, Halo's as good as dead creatively and spiritually. I've got no faith in any of the three, or the "new" Halo Studios, which is pretty much just a rebranded 343 to me, in delivering anything good.
Hell, they can't even do a good campaign. Ever since Halo 4, every campaign seem to have some issues, some of them ranging from annoying, to pissing me off immensely. I've not enjoyed any of them. And that says a LOT.
If by "we" you mean a publisher's and higher-up's inability to make good decisions, then yes. And by make good decisions, I mean keep their hands away and let the creatives work. If anything, fans are the ones that kept this franchise alive during the massive gap of content after Halo 5. Fans kept Infinite afloat after it launched with little content and over monitization. Halo is lucky to have fans as dedicated as they are.
Edit: Let's not forget that during the time of Halo 3, Esports had their own space. They didn't have weapons nerfed or content removed to cater to the Esports scene. People targeted Esports players because it had too much focus. Shoot, instead of a classic weapon we got two head-shot weapons. A type of weapon prefered by Esports players. They may not be the problem, but leaning into Esports as much as 343 did took away an important aspect of Halo. It's a shooter that was meant to be good, casual fun. It's a game meant to be a chill night with friends, not sweaty and over-competative. Halo 3 had a good balance and current Infinite is doing a great job too, but that doesn't mean it didn't cause problems.