Are climbing master points made with a girth hitch or clove hitch REDUNDANT???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Benjamin Schuldt donated some 60cm mammut contact slings made out of dyneema, which is very slippery so when one side breaks of a leg of a climbing anchor when a girth hitch or clove hitch is used it isn't very redundant. Yann Camus from / ycamus came up with a combo that might be more redundant. What do you think?
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I totally would want to see these with nylon and accessory cord! Very neat!
Totally!
Agreed!
We did it two years ago with different materials.
risk.ru/blog/214521
In Russian, but automatic translator works more or less good.
@@vladimirmolodojen5110 unfortunately the result table is an image and won't translate ;)
👍🏻
The quality is always going up on these! Really hope this show blows up with the climbing and slack community such bingable content
we try to make every episode just a little better than the last!
Hey weird question and it may have been answered at some point (I'm new to the channel) but what do you do with your broken slings? I make camera straps from shock loaded/overused/old slings and it can sometimes be hard to find these since most people throw them out. Anyways I'd definitely be interested in the broken slings if you don't have a home for them.
It would be interesting to see the scenario of using clove/girth hitch anchor when the bolt fails instead of the sling failing like in the video. I predict that the carabiner would prevent the sling from slipping all the way through thus increasing the strength(compared to the sling being cut).
When I'm building an anchor to belay a second on a multi-pitch , I am more concerned about the bolt failing then the sling failing, since the sling is mine, I know its history, and I can adjust the anchor or my stance to prevent abrasion, while a random bolt has a lot more unknown variables.
Agree! Shitty bolts or dubious pro seem like a more likely failure point. Putting the sliding X in it would probably be a good idea, as they mentioned.
I will never be able to do highline, but you are such a great person doing all this testing for other climbers. Your channel is extremely educational, and I like everything you do. Keep up the good work!
I've never used a girth hitch or clove hitch masterpoint... they just doesn't make sense to me. That said, I love that you finally tested what happens when you cut a single leg and I like that you pointed out that the first couple tests aren't redundant to a force break.
I'm really looking forward to the quad testing, and can't wait to see the results from "cut one leg" test in that anchor. Also want to see these same sorts of tests with sliding x with limiter knots, or a overhand/figure eight masterpoint. As you pointes out, cord and nylon would also make interesting tests too.
Would be cool if you did a video on winching for the offroad world, how to use tree savers, girth hitching trees, etc. Metal vs dyneema, etc. You could even test some of the snatch ropes out there, on static load, how much do they stretch, etc.
When you do the quad anchor on Accessory cord I would like to see the following scenario(s):
1) Have only "1 bolt" connected (like one bolt "failed") and pull from the remaining bolt and the master point biners with 2 ropes clipped vs. 3 ropes clipped in the quad. In Various thicknesses of cordage.
I know 7mm is the recommended, without realizing I've been using 6mm for years, and do 5mm as well.
I hope I was able to articulate what I meant.... you really should have more subscribers, this is such an awesome channel, I can't recommend you enough!
Super excited to see how the quad holds up. I bought 7mm cord to build my TR anchors and I'm curious if a double length dyneema runner would do the job just as fine.
Thanks. 2 quad anchor episodes coming out over next two weeks. So many rabbit holes to test
Good video! Thanks for breaking so many nice pieces of gear so we trust ours more - or less =) 14:05 would love to see it stopping at something like 2 kN and keep to see if it stays or slips. Reason is, you had a fall with load peaking at 4.5 kN, one of the legs broke, then you're hanging on the other leg. The peak load is gone, now the load will be smaller, and the imporant thing is the the other leg holds it and you don't go anywhere.
Amazingly interesting and entertaining again. Thx 🙏🏻
Accessory Cord would be interesting. I for example use 6mm aramid cord 🤔
i think that is on the list
Abrasion and bolt failure are very different things. Magic X will provide redundancy in case of bolt failure, but not in case of abrasion. Thanks for the video.
Well said
Really appreciate this video. I like to do cloves with a magic X for my anchors and I was just trying to defend it the other day to my friend who didn’t trust it. This video is really helpful!
thanks so much for doing these tests and posting the results. i have been specifically looking for a slip test of a girth hitch in Dyneema, like that starting at 15:00. many are advocating girth hitch anchors, including AMGA certified guides, but i have been skeptical of whether a girth hitch effectively closes the system. slipping to failure at 5 kN does not meet my definition of closing the system. i was so glad to find this video that i sent som $toke your way, via your website.
Could we please have testing on the slide X girth hitch (17.35) on two materials (nylon cordelettes, dyneema), two configuration (2 points anchor, 3 points anchor) and for both break strength AND slippage ?
I'd love to see this video revisited now that the drop tower is finished.
Thanks for the awsome content ! I'd love to see the same test with nylon cordelette instead of dyneema !
This totally makes me think a granny knot is the “best” for redundancy at least once lol. Any knot that “jams” under load would test better with these parameters would it not? Sweet tests fellas. Tuned in first thing after waking up. Look forward to the next one and what people have to say in the comments. Thanks for the sweet content as always.
That pain in his eyes at 4:40 went right to my soul.
Also I know this is an old video but I'd be so hyped for you to work with the slow mo guys. Maybe break some bomber nuts so we can see that sweet cable unravel action. Or get some 10000 fps shockload videos.
would be interesting to see the nylon and cordelete, they have more friction than dyneema (that's why water knot is only for nylon webbing)
Yes
So the only way to get to >4kN once the sling or knot fails is to shock load. How is it going to slip all the way if the shock load is applied for less than a second (ie. shock) and you are testing it to failure with a constant load. Seems to me like you kinda need a new rig with dropping 80kg weights kinda like UIAA/CE ;)
Oh i see that in my future for sure. I need a dyno consultant first to get the right dyno. The drop tower is easy imo
Agree. I would love to see how much slip there is if you shock it with what would be a 5, 10, 15, 20 kn load for an anchor that doesn’t slip. It would be interesting to see how much the slippage reduces the shock load as well. If it only slips 1 inch when shocked huge, then I think that is basically a zero concern for climbing. Love your stuff. Keep it up.
@@HowNOT2 And once you *have* a drop tower, the possibilities are endless. Would love to see a car or two suspended off a sling ;)
I love those slings. I heard that normal tube webbing was full strength when 50% cut through. That’s why I was all about mammut slings, plus the stitching connection is super clean
ACMG is still recommending girth hitch anchors for ice climbs. Justification seems to be that loads generated in normal climbing won't be high enough for slippage.
Hey great videos! I love how you do your stuff and tell everybody its not scientific, just having fun and breaking climbing stuff!!!
Thanks! 👍
Love your stuff. I recently came across a comment section... Or FB.. or MP thread.. where people were talking about using a close hitch on an anchor. Your timing with this video could not have been better!
The viewing angle at ~14:15 was really cool. Being able to see the Dyno while pulling was nice!
One note, those razor blades you were using for abrasion are super fragile and can break into tiny pieces. Wouldn't take much for something to bounce up and send shards of razor everywhere when the dynema snaps. Most pocket knives are built way stronger and would withstand something like that. Retracting the blade of the razor as much as possible would also reduce the chance of breakage. I know you're careful about safely, but we can always overlook something and make a mistake!
I put on my safety glasses just to *watch* you cut that tensioned Dyneema! Glad it turned out ok.
This was actually surprising... I am into trad climbing and Jenkya... this is helpful 🙏🏼👌🏼🔥
Thats amazing. Thank you for all these tests.
Glad you like them!
A common UK and Euro system for two points is a sling with overhand in the centre. The biner then clips through both loops created and each loop goes to an anchor. Can you test that?
Could you do a pure girth hitch test? Say, to a harness belay loop?
Do you mean a BFK anchor? We could test real girth hitches.
@@HowNOT2 I think he means a Shelf Without a Master Point (or SWAMP) anchor. You can see it made here: th-cam.com/video/XpwY4vLEKYo/w-d-xo.html
@@KakeaGill that's it. Just never knew the name. In the UK it's just a sling with a kot in.
I think he means a SWAMP, also known as “Shelf without a master point”. www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/learn-the-swamp-anchor
I’d be interested in the nylon and cordelette! Thanks for the videos
Thank you for your videos, they are super informative!
One thing to note - you often say “32 times higher framerate than real life” - there is really no set framerate for “real life” - they choose 24 fps for movies for a smooth watching experience that is not hard on our human eyes. One can’t put an estimate on how fast our “perceptive” framerate is, since our eyes light capture functions quite differently from cameras
very interesting, it would be very useful to see how nylon performs in the same tests
It breaks at the carabiner for the same reason it allways breaks in the knot. Where you bend rope it is likely to break as you are not using the whole diameter of the rope where it bends. I'd be curious to see what would happen if that tiny cut ended up near the carabiner. Very interesting!
Awesome, as always. And even though, as you say, it is not "science", there is very little science on this subject published in English. So every tidbit is welcome. As to the results: remember that a slow pull is NOT very representative of a real climbing fall. After all, we generally do not try tp lift cars from our anchors. The forces may be the same, but the rate of energy dissipation matters. This is especially true for dyneema, which is sensitive to heat. Anyone know of any tests just like this one, but with a sudden, realistic "fall" instead of a slow pull? (It could still be true that the setup works, but it would be nice to see it confirmed.)
This one's pretty interesting: th-cam.com/video/Vrgadjo9niY/w-d-xo.html
In real climbing it works, every setup can be pulled to failure, that is Just unrealistic entertaining bullshit.
Also, I'm not a climber, but those cut tests were VERY interesting. I couldn't believe neither of them broke where you expected
The outer red thread on the dyneema sling you cut the first time is nylon, used to color code and hold the dyneema weave together. Dyneema itself can't be dyed, that's why it's always white. That's crazy that it didn't break at the cut the second time. I would say a bigger sample size would be needed to make a statement like that IMO, but wouldn't have expected that. Thx for the vids. Keep up the great work!
Can't find the patreon link btw
@@va7oloko www.patreon.com/howNOTtoHighline
Thanks!
After the final sling break test... I was just waiting and hoping to see you knot the two ends back together and take a second run to see if the sling would at the knot or the 30% nick.
Keep up the entertaining and informative work!
I feel like I should point out that although the dyneema slips around 4-8 kN, it takes several seconds of sustained pulling at this level to slip all the way loose. This isn't like a climber falling, it's like a climber getting grabbed by the kraken and being dragged down into the sea.
You'd need to bring it up to this level briefly (less than a second), and then drop down to 1 kN or so to simulate the climber dangling for a while after the fall to have a meaningful test. We know the dyneema will slip with high sustained forces, but it's not clear if it'll slowly slip just under the weight of our dangling climber.
Some comments already mentioned but would be great to see a dynamic test of the clove and girth hitched slip after one side is cut i.e. one bolt fails. Could start with 80kg FF2 and keep upping the weight until it fails and/or slips.
I will probably be doing a drop test machine in the next 12 months. Have to solve the dyno problem... fast hz dynos are not easy off the shelf purchases. But will soon/eventually
How is the sliding x changing anything in girth/clove? Without still the piece/carabiner/hanger would stop when hitting the knot. Only scenario where it makes any difference would be that somehow your one leg unclips from the carabiner and produces a closed 1 leg flapping around, doubt that ever happened.
Those slings you were breaking have a safety feature in them. If the red band on the side isn’t complete or you can see a red patch through the white in the middle don’t use the sling. The red fibres are weaker and don’t give structural strength but give a clear visual cue for “too much” damage.
Nylon and cordalette, yes please!
yup!
Great job guys!! If I can suggest maybe you should keep the machine pulling and then cutting piece, maybe will be more relistic. Of corse we want to see nylon and especially cordelette. Another idea could be broke cheap stuff from china, they sell it on ebay. keep going!!
Cheap biner episode is ready to test :). Rated, non rated, and falsely rated!
very interesting tests guys I'm surprised those slings didn't break where they were cut. Did they break at the carabiner?
Yes. They broke at the carabiner. The narrower bend radius effectively cuts the sling if something doesn't cut it sooner.
That’s bananas. I’m with Bobby. I’d be tempted to isolate it with a knot. Maybe you need to test that literal scenario a couple time to help our brains get it.
Love the entertainment knowledge you create.
If you do this again sometime, try rotating the clove hitch 180 degrees so exiting cords won’t stress the the crossing cord. The exiting cords will be on either side of the carabiner, not crossing and pinching the crossing cord. Is this understandable? The crossing cord will be INSIDE the carabiner. The way it was tied in video, crossing cord was on the OUTSIDE of the carabiner. Sorry I didn’t see till a year later.
I think it's an really important point, that, if one line on your anchor gets cut and you whip on the still intact one, you might achieve ~7kN force, BUT that is a shockload. So I would GUESS(!!!) that there is a good chance that the knot might not slip the whole way. Sadly that is probably not really testable safely.
You awesome guys did mention that, but only in like a sidefact.
Thanks for your work!
Cheers!
That is what I was thinking as well. That pull held 6-7kN for 3 or 4 seconds of slow slippage where as in a fall that would be the force for 1/10th of a second or less.
If you go to Samson rope website (they make dynema ropes up to 6 7/8" diameter) they specifically say not to use any knots with their rope (or any rope with the same material) because the friction from the knot cinching down creates enough heat to melt the fibers.
Nylon slings and chordalette please!!!! I bet there will be an huge difference
Will do!
@@HowNOT2 chordalette should be fairly cheap as well ahah. Even though here in Italy is quite popular a Kevlar core/nylon sheet style of 6mm accessory chord even for making anchors... That's something that could behave realy well or really bad as the strength comes 95% from the core that's detached from the sheet...
@@HowNOT2 keep up the great job!!!
I think dynema is prone to loose strength from repeated flexing, so in your partial-cut-tests, my hypothesis is that it broke at the location it had flexed the most in the past.
It'd be interesting to see it "going over an edge". AKA have the sling or other gear going over a rock (instead of a knife) and see how much it reduces the forces before it snaps.
The defining different b/w the two measurements is that kN is a dynamic force and the kg is a static force, just plain weight. A dynamic force is a load in motion, in which case small weights can generate very large forces at high speeds (kN), such as in a fall. Which is the very nature of climbing, which is why a dynamic rating is necessary, since you;re not lifting. This is also why a lifting sling is rated in a static load (lbs). One is a fall rating, the other is lift rating. There you go...because...SCIENCE!
Well, a force is always a force. Kilograms is mass. But I agree with you on your conclusion. The crucial difference between a pull test and a fall test is that in a fall a lot of energy must be dissipated as heat in a short time, while in a slow pull test the energy per time unit is probably lower. (Energy = distance x force. Or in other words, heat=slippage x force.) It matters, since a moderate temperature (about 140 C) can kill a dyneema sling even at low forces.
Thx for the test, helps me fight with my friends miths
I was swaging some wire loops for a non-climbing project and started to wonder how strong are the ferrules and wires sold at Home Depot versus on wired nuts and are the ferrules on the wired nuts going to be the weak point in them? I don’t see that you have done any videos on this topic. I would find it to be a cool test.
Quad one-leg pull test, please)) In case of one bolt failure, the knot (weakest point) will be at the carabiner (highest tension point on the loop). Will be interesting to see how it holds.
Hi, can you test the bull hitch and also bull hitch with the additional twist x?
Also, when cutting with your razor, try slicing in the middle of the strap. The edge cut tends to tear out. A slit in the middle might still have more strength.
It would be interesting to break some of the questionable climbing gear on eBay, you know the stuff under $20 😂.
Yes! please test the strength of a few $20 and $40 kernmantel ropes in the 10.5mm diameter. I know CE &UIAA occurs on $150 ropes but i would definitely be interested in the low end for tree swings and hauling.
I would bypass the demaged part of the sling with a butterfly knot. That should be better than an overhand. May be worth a test anyway...
The second knot is adjustable. So, the loop slides until the rope is completely released. Try a butterfly knot, for example. Correct is to use butterfly for a start and end of this element of the sistem, and second knot (streme) between them :) So test butterfly knot 😇 it won’t slide from the carabiner 🙂
LOVE watching you break/test stuff. I'm really curious about the strength of this rope from harbor freight that says safe working load 600lbs and it's $10 for 100ft. Also rope from dollar tree, kinda like the kind featured in your tree nest video. Would be a very cheap date for the slackstat. Thanks for all the great videos!
I wish flat earthers would watch videos like this. They take one out of focus picture and go 'see, this proves the earth is flat!' Real science is BORING, this video is pure ENTERTAINMENT, and STILL has more educational benefit than most science manuals!.
Hi ya, I wasnt that surprised by the cuts, try abrading with sandpaper/glasspaper across the whole width of the sling between your sharpie lines, so it becomes furry - thats should make a big difference.
I've never heard anything described as "crazy warm" before but hey I always learn when I watch this channel
How about "that´s almost good math". Classic! :-)
For the first partially cut sling, I beleive the red bit is just nylon, and as this is a woven material, is the weft of the sling... meaning it runs from side to side, not the length of the sling. It proves the structure and shape, but not the strength.. The white bit is the dynema, and is the warp, the threads that run the length of the sling and give the strength to it. For the second cut sling, it broke at a significant amount below the uncut sling. Less of the white fibers were carrying the load, and those remaining fibers broke at the weakest point of those fibers, where they wrapped around the carabiner. Impressive how much load it still carried though, I've retired gear for much less.
Amazing work! Really appreciate it.
Guys - is it possible you do some tests with dynamic (not static) shockloads on the anchors (build with dynema and knots) . If possible use different stuff to simulate what was used to clip in - dynamic rope, static poliamid sling....
Falling factor 1 , 2 ? :)
Drop test machines require a different dyno that reads very fast. Trying to figure that out. after that the drop test tower is easy
@@HowNOT2 Not so sure the dyno is the crucial thing, though. Run, say, a FF1, 1.5 and 2 with the climbing rope tied straight into the anchor. Make the anchor a two-point girth hitch master point, with one leg disconnected. Try at progressively higher FF until things break (if they do). We´d be looking for a realistic (although extreme) scenario in which the slings break, not a force number. Just donated 20 bucks towards this! For this money, I hope to see YOU be the test weight, like in the shock loading video, that was fun! :-)
simple, use double 9mm ropes. Put each one in the anchors. see DMM test on various factor 2 falls to anchors. We are talking multi pitch routes and not sport climbing or single pitch trad.
Someone once told me if you cut a sling by 25%, it's 25% less affective but if you get some sand paper and give the sling a good seeing to it can be 70% less affective
Good to know: 21:15 I didn't break at the cut! =) Holding my slack line in the backyard, I have a 18 years old 16mm nylon sling which has a cut through like 50%. Holding like 5-6 kN. On the other hand, on the same slack line system, some old kevlar cords broke recently, they were just about 12 years old. Both constantly exposed to the outside weather for the last 5+ years.
Awesome, good job boys. What would be interesting to see is if 2 nylon slings, tied with an overhand knot together (sometimes used for TR anchors) can take more or less force. Does the knot reduce the force capacities enough to cancel out the redundancy of two slings?
Interesting to see that some anchors we think theoretically redundant and safe are not in practice... there are other kind of knots which would be interesting to test like the magic X with an overhand knot on each leg (carabiner between the 2 knots) and also the quadruplet anchor (2 overhand knots done on a doubled sling 1 ou 2 carabiners attached between the 2 knots)
nylon slings would be really interesting
Nylon slings are pretty thoroughly understood even if they don't snap them. I work as a crane operator and rig with many of the same materials. Industry publishes charts giving the estimated strength by thickness and material. It shows the reductions for things like choking (half typically) and increases for a basket sling. You can find the charts by googling nylon sling rigging chart.
Even things like dyneema rope and web are from sailing, rigging and other industries. I'd be willing to bet that most climbing suppliers are relabelling and reselling most of the things used in climbing and slackline after a very hefty markup. There should be published data for most of it.
The cut on the outer red didn't reduce the strength because that red is just Nylon for color. Dyneema doesn't accept dye well, so the manufacturers add nylon strands to color different sling lengths differently.
The second one wasn't a cut of half the strands, so again I'd expect less strength reduction than an overhand knot. There was some reduction from the MBS, just nowhere near 50%.
I would want do see the girth hitch with a sliding X. It's supposed to not slip when one side gets cut even on dynema(?)
You guys are great. sorry i'm broke (but just right now).
What about testing with a double wrap girth, and double wrap clove- to see if dyneema will still stretch. Still probably takes less material than a bfk, and also is still untieable.
Whoooaaa, so it broke on the carabiner or on the bed rather than where it was cut?
You can switch off the fluorescent tube light for slow motion to avoid the blinking.
Led light only
Can you test a bowline on a bight as anchor point? Commonly used in the Alps. You directly clip into it, there is no central carabiner.
Do you have a photo or a link?
@@beaniebobh1 - www.bergwelten.com/a/standplatzbau-das-weiche-auge
www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/belaying-the-leader-with-a-fixed-point-belay
Hi, I know this video is old, but cN you do the same tests with the petzl evovl adjust?? That's what I'm using. I gurth hit hed it to my hard points and added a figure 8 on two strands directly above the girth hitch.
Awesome video! I’d love to see how nylon acts in that situation
That would be cool! We want to test that for sure
I love the magnetron!!! but yeah I only have one they aint cheap
thanks for breaking expensive shit for us to learn!
what about paracord? I know a lot of them say they're rated for hundreds of lbs, it would be interesting to see since a lot of space nets are made out of them and they're almost life supporting (yes you have the rope you should ba attached to, but if you fell throught the paracord, it would be pretty hard to climb back up on just the rope)
we tested the forces on spacenets. You can't get high enough to break a net because it just starts pulling on another section. It all works together. th-cam.com/video/DMW68m1XOSk/w-d-xo.html
@@HowNOT2 oh nice, thank you!
ycamus's way was how I was taught 15-16 yrs ago.
@HowNOT2 have you guys tested Nylon slings on anchors?
Thats very interesting could you also break some Bulin knots in Dyneema slings, would love to see that, since they say the Bulin gives you less strain on dyneema slings.
Regards from Switzerland
show them a pic of your knot you wanted to be tested ! bowline (not bulin) in europe is not always the same as bulin in USA . the single bowline (bulin) still is, but in europe we often double the whole thing by backthreading it, in usa they usually do not. they call a different knot double bowline, than we do...
very interesting tests!
Have you guys tried the clove hitch in the beener with the X the other way around?
I have this argument with the guys where we think it would be stronger than the way it was tested in your video. I hope you guys get to test it 😁
I usually make an anchor with an overhand knot in the middle of the sling and put a biner into the two loops on the left and right side of the knot (not into the knot as it is done for the clove or grith hitch). I always thought that such solution is redundant, especially if you take into account that it is more likely to loose an anchor point instead of breaking the sling. I'm wondering what will happen if the anchor points are bomber and the sling will actually break in the overhand knot. Can you guys check it? That would be a nice addition to the great work you've already done! Thanks!
I think we tested something similar in this th-cam.com/video/NwbMfh4FqT4/w-d-xo.html
I’d knot the abraded sling. Long story short, with a knot you know how compromised it is. With an abrasion, there could be more cuts inside, there could be more damage than you’re eyeballing, etc. I’d rather have a weak sling that I know the strength of, than a potentially stronger sling that I’m just guessing at.
would have been nice to see when you cut it, pulled again , when it got up to five KN just hold it there and see if it starting slipping. Should have tried with a knot also, with the 30 percent cut, to bypass.
Wow, great results. I typically use 2 dyneema slings for an anchor with sliding X on both biners (1 sling, 1 biner). Would be interested if this gives 2x strength or where the slings meet at the bolt biners if there's friction there ?
No knots in them.
It seemed like the cut skiing still broke more easily. I bet the cut increased the force on the non cut fibers of the sling, causing them to break at the bolt threads
I have a ton of old dog bones id like to send and some other old gear. whats an address I could send it to?
Send Ryan an email at Skylining@live.com with the details.
send me photos to my fb messenger facebook.com/ryan.jenks.35
We have tested a lot of dog bones but i'd love to see your other gear
Longtime listener, first-time caller from the climbing world.
I would be interested in a "sketchy AF alpine/trad/rap anchor setup." The kind of stuff that you come across in the mountains at 2AM and go ahead and rap off because maybe, just maybe, you'll be blessed with the sweet sweet release of eternal death after days of exhaustion, exposure, and starvation. Things like 1" webbing, 9/16" webbing, or 5-7mm cord either directly threaded through or girth hitched to bolt hangers, eyes of pitons, or even directly through the wire cable on stoppers. Basically, when playing this flavor of Russian roulette, how many chambers are loaded in the gun?
Similarly, how strong are knotted sling placements? There's a lot of variables at play here (material, knot used, placement quality, ...) and building an appropriate test rig might be more difficult. Perhaps something along the lines of a V-slot between a couple boards bolted together?
Got any pictures of sketchy af anchors that you are imagining? Send it to skylining@live.com I like the idea!
@@HowNOT2 I'll take some shots tomorrow on my workbench of some of what I'm envisioning. In the meantime, this clip vimeo.com/222262746 gives a view of Mark Smiley reconfiguring rap anchors in the Ford-Stetner couloir, which is the most popular ski descent off of the Grand Teton (popular being a relative term, here). The before shots (and frankly even the after shots to some extent) give a good image of the anchors that haunt my nightmares. Probably fine for low angle rappels, but certainly a long ways from UIAA certified...
Good question. Slings, cord, and knotted webbing through any of the hardware you described is going to be fine for rapping. Maximum force you can generate is not much more than 2 kN. The quality of the hardware you were clipping is another story, but the sling material is never going to break. For example, a sling through a stopper wire girth hitched was pull tested to 9 kN. www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/hitching-a-sling-direct-to-a-stopper-wire-acceptable
Why are climbing anchors so weak. I thought that when someones life is on the line you should use a safety factor of 10:1 or even 15:1 for determining working load limit. You said that you could generate 4.5 kn on an anchor therefore the anchor should break at 45-67.5 kn. Seems like a lot of climbing materials break below their safe working load. What am I missing here? Is there a smaller safety factor used in climbing?
You should break test the metolius easy daisy, that would be so wonderful. Perhaps on the drop tower? Does it really only hold 300 pounds?
21:58 If I were a gambler, I would have just lost my life savings!!!
Thank you for such scientific entertainment!