I was at Roosevelt that night. They did list 27 2/5 as the first quarter, but shortly after the race was declared official it was changed to 28 2/5 for the first quarter. Still the fastest International ever contested at Roosevelt before it closed in 1988 (1987 was the last International at Roosevelt).
Mack Lobell was also among the best of all time as we saw over the years. He never got the chance to race against some of these horses, however, so we never got to know how good he really was in some ways.
The International Trot is longer than 1 Mile and mack Lobell was known to be unable to do more than 1 Mile so impossible. Remember also that the French champion Ourasi who never ran on 1 Mile, had come beat Mack Lobell on the Mile in the United States. Mack Lobell would have been humiliated by ourasi for a longer distance ....
All this stuff about time it's forgotten that at one point Nevele Pride was once the sports fastest animal. He was a trotter. His 56.4 WR at Saratoga wasn't broken by a pacer for 4 years.
Molly Welker That is true. When he went his 1:56 4/5 Mile at Saratoga Harness in 1969, it was the world record on a half-mile track by a trotter OR pacer. That record stood the test of time as it would be 20+ years I believe before it was finally broken.
@MrItaliano1900 Varenne was no question one of the best of all time, but this discussion went up to 1990. Had there still been an International Trot in 2001, I'm sure Varenne would have shown up for it.
The last few decades yes, and the game has certainly changed. I still think had we had two separate races between Nihilator and On The Road Again (pacers) and then Meadow Road and Lutin D'Isgny (trotters) on the same night, the trot race would have upstaged the pacing counterpart. Lutin D'Isgny and Meadow Road were probably the two best trotters of that entire generation and it's a shame they never got to meet.
Yes, I remember there was talk of a race between Nihilator and On The Road Again, but to me it would not have mattered. In my view, Lutin D'Isgny and Meadow Road (who won both legs of the Statue of Liberty Series at The Measdowlands) were co-trotters and co-Harness Horses of the Year for 1985, the shame being they never met because of Meadow Road being injured. Had you had both sets of horses meet on the same night, the trotters would have upstaged the pacers in my opinion.
That's not how I meant it. Obviously, the pacers would beat the trotters, that's a given. What I meant was, Lutin d'Isgny and Meadow Road if they had met on the same night On The Road Again faced Nihilator, the trotters would have completely upstaged the pacers.
He was fine after that. But when you watch this race, you realize that none of these would have stood a snowballs chance in hell had Ideal du Gazeau not been retired after winning it the 3 prior years
As said in other comments, lets see what would have happened if Ideal du Gazeau had been living on the outside and having to go far faster fractions than he did in the 1982 and '83 Internationals. I suspect Ideal would have had to close from much further back, and especially given Lutin did his last quarter of the 1984 International in :30 flat after going the first mile in 2:00 (fastest first mile of an International contested at Roosevelt), I don't think Ideal would have caught Lutin (and Lutin's time of 2:30 actually broke what had been the record regardless of gait for 1 1/4 Miles that was set in the final Yonkers International Pace in 1975 of 2:30 1/5). That all said, Reve du'On's 1990 International blows all of these away.
IT WAS A GREAT RACE AND FINISH CANADA MAIN ENTRY WENT OVER THE RAIL FOR DAVE GREEN AND LAWRENCE BALL THE OWNER OF TORONTO THE ONION WENT A GOOD RACE BUT COULD NOT CATCH IDEAL CROWN WOOD WAS THIRD WITH LAWSON DRIVING BUT WAS NO MATCH TO THE FIRST 2 BUT ALL IN ALL IT WAS A VERY GOOD RACE JUST TO BAD WE DO NOT HAVE THEM ANY MORE IN THE USA
I certainly can "punish" Ideal when Reve du'On does the exact same thing as Ideal seven years later and goes SEVEN full seconds faster to the mile (1:59 in 1990 vs. 2:06 in 1982 and '83) than Ideal did. If Ideal had been parked to the 2:00 Lutin D'Isgny cut in 1984, he likely would have been backing up on the last quarter mile.
Wrong! Lutin D'Isgny was far superior to Ideal in my view. Lets see if Ideal could have withstood the much faster pace of the 1984 International as opposed to 1982 or '83, where they went about as fast as bottom-level trotters went the first mile. And then there was 1990 and Reve du'On, who would have blown them all away being parked around FIVE TURNS to the first mile in 1:59 before drawing off in a then-world record 2:28 3/5 for 1 1/4 Miles.
It's not how fast they run, but how they run fast. You can't punish Ideal for winning, and he was TEN by now, so it's not a fair comparison. Ideal had rocket fuel in the stretch and loved to race parked. It's a shame they never met but they are from different eras. Lutin was FOUR in this race and near his peak.
![อาจารย์ยอด : ลุงแว่วเล่าเรื่องผี [ผี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fd2Qsy4dqpM/mqdefault.jpg)
My Favorite Horses in that era were...Troublemaker..Mr Dalrae...Docs fella....
Thanks for posting this. Crown Wood was a great horse. My brother worked with him more than I did, but that sure brought back some wonderful memories.
Cool beans.. My uncle pat Lacey was owner.
I was at Roosevelt that night. They did list 27 2/5 as the first quarter, but shortly after the race was declared official it was changed to 28 2/5 for the first quarter. Still the fastest International ever contested at Roosevelt before it closed in 1988 (1987 was the last International at Roosevelt).
Jack E Lee race announcing at Roosevelt raceway he was a ring announcer for WWWF
Mack Lobell was also among the best of all time as we saw over the years. He never got the chance to race against some of these horses, however, so we never got to know how good he really was in some ways.
The International Trot is longer than 1 Mile and mack Lobell was known to be unable to do more than 1 Mile so impossible. Remember also that the French champion Ourasi who never ran on 1 Mile, had come beat Mack Lobell on the Mile in the United States. Mack Lobell would have been humiliated by ourasi for a longer distance ....
All this stuff about time it's forgotten that at one point Nevele Pride was once the sports fastest animal. He was a trotter. His 56.4 WR at Saratoga wasn't broken by a pacer for 4 years.
Poo
Molly Welker That is true. When he went his 1:56 4/5 Mile at Saratoga Harness in 1969, it was the world record on a half-mile track by a trotter OR pacer.
That record stood the test of time as it would be 20+ years I believe before it was finally broken.
July 4,1988
I stand corrected. Still a very long time before that mark was broken and it took a lot of advancements to make it happen.
Jack E Lee the race announcer was a ring announcer for the wwf
Bridger was fine after he fell. It was actually the second straight year he had fallen in the International (I was there for both).
@MrItaliano1900 Varenne was no question one of the best of all time, but this discussion went up to 1990. Had there still been an International Trot in 2001, I'm sure Varenne would have shown up for it.
The last few decades yes, and the game has certainly changed. I still think had we had two separate races between Nihilator and On The Road Again (pacers) and then Meadow Road and Lutin D'Isgny (trotters) on the same night, the trot race would have upstaged the pacing counterpart. Lutin D'Isgny and Meadow Road were probably the two best trotters of that entire generation and it's a shame they never got to meet.
Game effort by Crown Wood, a local favorite along with Docs Fella, unfortunately, he was outmatched in this race.
Yes, I remember there was talk of a race between Nihilator and On The Road Again, but to me it would not have mattered. In my view, Lutin D'Isgny and Meadow Road (who won both legs of the Statue of Liberty Series at The Measdowlands) were co-trotters and co-Harness Horses of the Year for 1985, the shame being they never met because of Meadow Road being injured. Had you had both sets of horses meet on the same night, the trotters would have upstaged the pacers in my opinion.
I had 50 on Ideal du Gazeau the year before and ignore the French horse at 11-1 tsk...
@manuraiders Bridger was fine as far as I remember.
That's not how I meant it. Obviously, the pacers would beat the trotters, that's a given. What I meant was, Lutin d'Isgny and Meadow Road if they had met on the same night On The Road Again faced Nihilator, the trotters would have completely upstaged the pacers.
Was Bridger ok after he fell, I remember when it happened but wasnt informed how serious he was hurt or worse.
Bridger was fine. It was actually the second year in a row he fell in this race.
the French trotters dominated Roosevelt in the mid 80s
He was fine after that. But when you watch this race, you realize that none of these would have stood a snowballs chance in hell had Ideal du Gazeau not been retired after winning it the 3 prior years
As said in other comments, lets see what would have happened if Ideal du Gazeau had been living on the outside and having to go far faster fractions than he did in the 1982 and '83 Internationals. I suspect Ideal would have had to close from much further back, and especially given Lutin did his last quarter of the 1984 International in :30 flat after going the first mile in 2:00 (fastest first mile of an International contested at Roosevelt), I don't think Ideal would have caught Lutin (and Lutin's time of 2:30 actually broke what had been the record regardless of gait for 1 1/4 Miles that was set in the final Yonkers International Pace in 1975 of 2:30 1/5).
That all said, Reve du'On's 1990 International blows all of these away.
IT WAS A GREAT RACE AND FINISH CANADA MAIN ENTRY WENT OVER THE RAIL FOR DAVE GREEN AND LAWRENCE BALL THE OWNER OF TORONTO THE ONION WENT A GOOD RACE BUT COULD NOT CATCH IDEAL CROWN WOOD WAS THIRD WITH LAWSON DRIVING BUT WAS NO MATCH TO THE FIRST 2 BUT ALL IN ALL IT WAS A VERY GOOD RACE JUST TO BAD WE DO NOT HAVE THEM ANY MORE IN THE USA
I certainly can "punish" Ideal when Reve du'On does the exact same thing as Ideal seven years later and goes SEVEN full seconds faster to the mile (1:59 in 1990 vs. 2:06 in 1982 and '83) than Ideal did. If Ideal had been parked to the 2:00 Lutin D'Isgny cut in 1984, he likely would have been backing up on the last quarter mile.
Times me nothing, anyone who has watched enough races knows that. I am surprised you do not.
Wrong! Lutin D'Isgny was far superior to Ideal in my view. Lets see if Ideal could have withstood the much faster pace of the 1984 International as opposed to 1982 or '83, where they went about as fast as bottom-level trotters went the first mile. And then there was 1990 and Reve du'On, who would have blown them all away being parked around FIVE TURNS to the first mile in 1:59 before drawing off in a then-world record 2:28 3/5 for 1 1/4 Miles.
It's not how fast they run, but how they run fast. You can't punish Ideal for winning, and he was TEN by now, so it's not a fair comparison. Ideal had rocket fuel in the stretch and loved to race parked. It's a shame they never met but they are from different eras. Lutin was FOUR in this race and near his peak.
@@raygordonteacheschess5501 6
@@raygordonteacheschess5501 They have met, Ideal du Gazeau won.