Why it's CRITICAL to Check PTO Length on New Implements (Failure to do so may cost $$$)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2017
- If you buy a new implement, you should be able to hook it on the tractor and use it, right? NOT NECESSARILY! The company that built the attachment doesn't know how long to make the power take off to fit your particular tractor. It's clear if you read the owner's manual that you may have to shorten the length of the PTO before using the implement.
If the shaft is too long, some really bad failures can occur, either with the implement or the tractor. Just because all of the specs indicate that a tiller, brush hog or finish mower will work with a particular tractor, it's still your responsibility to check the length of the PTO shaft before operating. Even farmers, who have been around equipment all of their life don't always realize that a PTO shaft that just barely wedges on to the tractor may have needed to be shortened, and the results of failing to do so won't be covered under warranty.
I was a territory sales manager for AGCO Corporation for ten years, and we sold the New Idea brand of disc mowers. For about a decade, those machines could be uncrated and sent to the field without ever doing anything to the PTO shaft but greasing it. Then, one year we sold two machines that had ugly failures almost immediately and we were surprised to find out that the company had changed suppliers of PTO shafts, and the new ones were just a little bit longer than the old ones, and on certain tractors, if you hit a bump, everything was put in a bind. In those cases, everything behind the PTO would get shoved back, driving a big drive pulley into a shield and doing a lot of damage. We started chopping off about four inches of PTO before delivery and the problem went away.
When I first saw the flail mower in the video I suspected the PTO shaft was too long. The cutter is designed to work on a wide range of tractor sizes, and when putting it on a large compact, like what we're trying to do in the video, there was a problem. I could have extended the lower link arms on the tractor slightly and made it fit, but raising it up or hitting a bump would have created a disastrous situation and probably broken the PTO shaft off the tractor. I measured the distance from the PTO stub shaft of the tractor to the gearbox shaft and determined I could take about 4 1/2 inches off the PTO shaft and have plenty of clearance to hook up and so that's what I did.
I know I could have cut the PTO myself, with a hacksaw or power tools, but I never like the jagged cuts I make, I wanted it to be clean, so I took it to S & H Farm Supply, the dealership where I used to work, and had them cut it off for me on their band saw. It took about twenty minutes and the finished result looked "factory".
In a perfect world, the dealer would tell you, when he's selling you a PTO-powered implement, to check the length of the shaft before operating. Since situations like the one in the video are fairly rare, that doesn't always happen. The bottom line is, either have new implements fitted to the tractor when purchasing, or closely follow the owner's manual recommendation for adjusting PTO shaft length before operating any new equipment. It can possibly avoid a lot of grief later on.
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Another great video Mike, Looking forward to your video on the flail mower.
Thanks for posting, good information as always. Stay safe.
Sometimes if you want it done right, do it yourself. My dealer cut the shaft on only one side. A lot of good that does.....
Great info for some one new to tractors keep up the great videos ! Curt :-)
Good video. Informative!
I just had my PTO shaft separate during use today now I cannot get the shaft off the gearbox to fix it. So this is very important to make sure it's not too long or too short.
I just tore up 3 belts on a wood chipper due to my PTO shaft being too long. When I lifted the 3 point the PTO shaft pushed the belt pulleys back. Lesson learned.
Great suggestions!
This spring we had a friend come over with a wood processing machine. He usually power it with his smaller tractor in his yard but traveling on the big road he preferred the bigger one which he knew would have the front wheels not lifting from the ground due to the weight of the implement...
Well he said I had to have a short PTO shaft so it would fit the bigger tractor. Sure! I have two short ones! When we tried to connect them it turned out that the diameter of the PTO tap (correct terminology?) was too small on one side of the shaft (implement side from the implements they were used on). I know there are different sizes but had forget to check that.
Well we went to get his PTO shaft and I shortened it. Used a tiger saw with fine toothed metal blade. Was done in no time.
The friends also said he had to lift the wood processor up to even get it into his smaller tractor... So it was probably good it got shortened.
Thanks Mike!
Good info
Measure twice cut once
Kubota L4740 with a 6' King Kutter tiller just fits, probably should be trimmed up a little for some reassurance. Everything Attachments has a pretty good video on how to measure and cut your shafts. I have found a couple others also, but don't recall where off hand.
Hi Mike... Love your advice. I have a WoodMaxx 8M Woodchipper and am using the premium shaft option from WoodMax which in itself is a short shaft, only 9" from shield bell housing start to shield bell housing start when fully compressed. When the shaft is connected to the chipper and fully compressed I have about 3/8" inch of open air before the tractor end of the PTO shaft contacts the tractor's PTO male shaft. Once installed the shaft ends up being extended about 2" from fully compressed. Goes on and locks fine. When installed and the chipper is on it's stand on the ground (which is the only allowed way to run it), the shaft is only angled at 5 degrees. Since I set this chipper on the ground and lower the kick stand before ever spinning the PTO shaft coupled with the fact it stays stationary, I'm thinking I'm fine without shortening the shaft. Assuming this was more clear than mud... would you agree?
That is a good idea and I have a 790 John Deere tractor, and purchased a tiller which was a John Deere brand and didn't take that into consideration when buying it, but fortunately it did work, but if I had a different brand I would probably would be in trouble and have to cut the shaft.
Sidney, I'm not sure I'd trust that the shaft length would be right just because they're both the same brand. If they fit a wide horsepower range I'd still be checking it.
Hi Mike, I have a question. My 1944 2N has a measurement of 1 1/8 diameter on the PTO, and I have a 641 workmaster tractor. I find it impossible to connect the PTO on the 44 2N for brush cutting. It seems too big, but yet on the 641 no problem. So my question is are their different spline diameters for the PTO's on different tractors? Thanks Ken
First time ever for me today. Picked up the new brush hog and didn't have to cut the PTO shaft. Almost second guessing myself on this.
99% of the implement shafts won't need cutting. The number may even be higher than that. Most come off the tractor with plenty of room to spare and are fine. This was a video that is trying to prevent the possible disaster for the less than 1% because it usually gets pretty ugly for customer, dealer, and manufacturer when that happens and I've been around enough ugly stuff that I try to do everything in my power to prevent it. You're probably just fine.
Hey Tractor Mike. I had bought a tiller online and had to shorten the pto shaft which came with it. My fear was removing to much of the shaft. I hooked up the tiller, measured the distance from connector to connector, did all the math and cut my shaft. Then I cut it the second time. It is a very tight fit on my compact 25 hp tractor. The carpenter's rule applies here measure twice cut once but I cut twice. Hard to add length back on and pto shafts are pricey.
Yeah, I get that. I was pretty worried I'd cut too much off this shaft (we took 4 1/2" off), but it worked perfectly. It's hard to make them longer :).
Tractor Mike THAT’S WHAT SHE SAID!! 😂😂
well said
Hi Mike, I enjoy your channel and have been watching weekly for several months. I just read your video description where you said that you were the manager of an S&H Farm Supply at one time. I purchased a lightly used Agco Allis 4650 MFWD with FEL from S&H in Lockwood, MO around year 2004. Would you have been the manager there then? I still have that tractor and couldn't be any happier with the dependable service it has provided. Very much enjoy your channel and please keep up the great work!
In 2004 I was managing the recently-acquired Springfield S &H location and was too busy to tell which way was up. I know those AGCO 4650's well, I was the territory manager for them when those were sold new and they were tough little tractors. I've seen them absolutely beat to a pulp and still running, with no radiator antifreeze to worry about in the winter. I've been around the Lockwood store a bunch, but I never actually worked there. I pretty much knew everyone who did, though. Where are you from?
I'm from the SW part of St. Charles Co, Missouri. That's interesting regarding your positive experience with the 4650. Yes, the simplicity of the air cooled diesel has proved to be a great feature for me. Non-routine maintenance parts for the 4650 can be a little hard to find at times, but with the help of the internet, I've always been able to hunt down what I need. I have always admired the SW part of Missouri. Good people and beautiful countryside with the Ozark lakes and rivers. Thanks again for all you do for us viewers.
Thanks Mike! How about a video on how to measure your PTO shaft so you know if it's too long or too short even.
-Sharon
I'll try to do that...it scares me a little. I'm always worried about cutting too much off because they're a little hard to make longer! The one in the video was easy because it wouldn't go on at all, and the flail was offset (it can slide back and forth) so if it was conencted and slid to directly behind the tractor it would have been ugly. I guesstimated that 4-5" would make it right and we ended up taking 4 1/2" off and that seemed to be perfect. I'm a salesguy and was never too good at math...in fact, after I took the ACT test in high school they advised I NEVER go into any career that involved calculations. So I'm not sure I'm the guy to give good information on how to accurately measure the PTO...but I know some people who could help me with that video who I could drag in. I'll put it on the list.
Cool! Thanks Mike for helping us all out here!
I want to operate a hydraulic pump through PTO of MF 285 tractor 🚜 need advice
hi was wondering how much ihave to cut my pto shaft down my pto shaft is 41 inches and from the indent from the mower to the indent the tractor is 34 inches thank you
I just bought a 1979 Ford 340 industrial tractor. The auger that came with it does not have a PTO shaft. What's your recommendation for how I measure to get the right length PTO shaft for the auger?
That's a tough one, you'll have to figure out where the PTO shaft will be at it's closest point to the tractor and then get a shaft a little shorter than that, but because of the full travel of the auger, it needs to be as long as possible so it doesn't come apart. What brand is the auger? Maybe one of my viewers will have the same one and can measure their PTO shaft and let you know the exact length. This one scares me. Those shafts are expensive and pretty hard to make longer when cut too short. If the truth were known on this video, I was paranoid that we'd cut too much off the shaft and we removed about 4 1/2". It was perfect, but until I backed the tractor up I wasn't sure.
Have you done a video comparing the flail mower to a rotary cutter and/or finish mower? It might make for an interesting video if not. I have seen flail mowers used by the state but have never seen one on a farm. I've always wondered if they would handle thicker woodier stuff like a rotary cutter. Good advice on the video btw.
Stay tuned...we shot it on one of the hottest days of the year this past Thursday, as soon as it's edited it will go live. Very interesting results.
Mike, I just got my new tractor John Deere 3043D and I have a 48" tiller. I had cut my pto shaft for it to work with a Kubota BX. The shaft now is too short, so should I use a pto extender on the tractor side or should I just buy another complete pto shaft to work with the new tractor? What are your thoughts on pto extenders?
Wayne, you might be able to replace a tube in the PTO and cure the problem. We have a shop in this area that does clutches, transaxles and transmissions and if you took it to them and told them you needed the PTO shaft longer they could do it for not much money. You could use an overunning clutch as well, but I'd spend the money to get the shaft fixed right.
Is there any spec on how short it can be? I intend to add a Pat's easy hitch adding four inches to the length the PTO needs to be. Let's say it's four inches shorter now, is that ok?
The owner's manual of the attachment should tell you the minimum overlap. It varies some depending on the torque load of the machine.
That was clear as mud! No clue how and where to measure a pto shaft.How would i know its to long?
I guess I should have made the point a little clearer, check the owner's manual and do what they recommend. On this machine, once it's unhooked, there has to be at least an inch clearance from the end of the PTO stub shaft on the tractor. This one was easy to tell, it wouldn't go on at all, but if it would have gone on, and when it came off, there was only a fraction of an inch clearance, it's too long. That distance is going to be different with each implement depending on how much they move around behind the tractor. The bottom line is, find out what the owner's manual says and if it's not within what they recommend, cut some out of it.
A good clue that it is too long is once you have your implement installed on the 3 point, you are unable to connect the pto. From this excess length you have to estimate how much to cut off. They say you need to take off 2 inches beyond where the shaft bottoms out on the tractor when it is all put together.
On my tiller it says the pto needs a 4" overlap. So maybe the more horse power the more overlap?
Yep, that sounds right!