Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - GiveDirectly: givedirectly.org/lex to get gift matched up to $1000 - Eight Sleep: www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings - Fundrise: fundrise.com/lex - InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off - Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/lex to get 1 month of fish oil 0:48 - CPython 6:01 - Code readability 10:22 - Indentation 26:58 - Bugs 38:26 - Programming fads 53:37 - Speed of Python 3.11 1:18:31 - Type hinting 1:23:49 - mypy 1:29:05 - TypeScript vs JavaScript 1:45:05 - Best IDE for Python 1:55:05 - Parallelism 2:12:58 - Global Interpreter Lock (GIL) 2:22:36 - Python 4.0 2:34:53 - Machine learning 2:44:35 - Benevolent Dictator for Life (BDFL) 2:56:11 - Advice for beginners 3:02:43 - GitHub Copilot 3:06:10 - Future of Python
usually coding jobs come by chance with the market right now. ie companies offering new position and you can network to get it. Like I was coding python before but tried getting a job in SWE and now I code python for data science for tabulations.
Thanks *in part* to Guido. Python certainly makes coding more approachable for newbies. Don't forget to give yourself the credit for giving a damn and doing the work. It's amazing how far we can go with we assert effort and care in our work, no matter the craft. Far too many people are "meh" and slough off instead of pressing towards "better". Well done, @iacopocarlini 👏
provided job opportunities around the world.. I have met so many great people around the world to work on projects. Indians, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Turkish, Egyptians, and we connect over the love of programming and code. Its my favorite part of this timeline
Its fascinating, that in 1920, one Czech guy wrote a book, its called Rossum's universal robots. About a guy, called Rossum, who invents artificial people. It was a first appearance of a robot in culture, and it coined the word "robot", which comes from czech word for work. Its really cool that real world Rossum invented a language, in which the neural networks used for programing robot are written.
I've never thought of it that way! I'm Polish and our colloquial term for work is 'robota' (the formal one is 'praca'). I've never noticed its similarity to the word 'robot'.
@@mateuszdrewniak7152 Yeah, I guess I wouldnt either. But czech kids learn this in school, because the author is one of the most important czech writers, and some national pride is connectwd to it as well. Dont know why that is, the word is completely slavic, but we are used to hearing it in such a different context that it sounds really distant
My theory is that they may sound completely unrelated to me because they're both nouns but 'robota' is feminine while 'robot' is masculine. And it doesn't follow the regular rules for word derivation (at least in Polish). We've already got a masculine noun derived from 'robota' which is 'robotnik' (meaning worker).
@@mateuszdrewniak7152 its weird on purpose, he wanted something that will sound cold and technical. He first came up with a word "labor" ( pronounced in slavic way), but when he told it to his brother, who was a painter, brother didnt like it and suggested robot instead.
Guido seems like a great person! It's a really chill and interesting interview. I love getting to know the legends of computing as real human beings. I'd love you to interview Yukihiro Matsumoto, the creator of the Ruby Programming Language. It could make for a an incredible episode.
Feels so strange to see a dutch person speak on a popular international podcast (yes I'm dutch). I tend to think people are all the same, yet Guido is probably one of the best examples of a Dutch person. His way of thinking and expressing himself is so recognizable. Thanks as always @lex for bringing great people on your podcast, you're a bright light in the vast darkness of meaningless talk and bllsht commonly found on the internet (yes it's almost 2am and I've probably had something to drink but still mean every word)
I am only 10 minutes in, but does he ever laugh or seem to react to a humorous conment from Lex? (I am not sure how Dutch people's sense of humour is (?))
@@grapy83 Guido von Rossum created a programming Language Python. That dude thanks him for that, because now he earns a living by being a programmer of Python, brings food to his family table.
As a 35 year developer and founder of my own software company in 1988, I changed to 100% Python over 10 years ago. To me, it’s a beautiful language and we have done great things using it! The inherent formatting is key to its beauty and readability. This has had profound impact on changing dev staff and general code maintenance over the years. Thank you Guido for your vision.
@@jenn_madison Of course, but you’d have to be crazy to try from scratch lol. Just hook into any of the current array of AI based chatBots out there using their API and provided sample Python code.
@@motichel We have developed our own platform for web and mobile app development. It’s a stack from the OS to the UI which is quite unique and very powerful. We specialise in developing bespoke solutions to existing ERP platforms that can not provide the user experience required.
@@MSIContent wow that’s really interesting do you offer any internships even unpaid? That’s right up my street and I’d love to get the opportunity to be a part of that
I think this has to be one of the best guests you have had. I would have loved to have this guy as a college professor. Maybe I'd have learned to code. Lmao. But this episode has inspired me to get back to it...some day. Some day I *WILL* learn to code!
Now if you have an idea you want to realise, and access to GPT-4, you absolutely can! I knew almost nothing about coding a few months ago, and now I'm knee-deep in python projects thanks to ChatGPT. It's no longer intimidating when you have someone/something to guide you.
I write quite a bit of python at work. It flows so smoothly. The lack of static types can be a problem when it's code you didn't write, or you wrote a long time ago. But the whole experience of sitting down and cranking out python for hours is top notch; probably more than any other lang. Everything just feels easier. Working with files, sockets, databases, iterating over maps, comprehensions, etc. It's so incredibly intuitive.
I've only programmed in C# and some similar languages, and looking at python code always gives me anxiety lol, especially the fact variables aren't typed in the code. Are you saying it has better base classes/functions?
@@moonasha I have done both, and I do have quite a strong opinion about this, so you should read it with care. Opinion: Python sucks. On almost every level. The only thing I find good about it is the amount of libraries available for it. But that is nothing about the language per se. Slow, GIL, dynamicly typed, forces indentation, ...... thanks but no thanks. C# on the other hand is, almost, perfection. Obs! I forgot: interpreted...
@@moonasha Variables in Python are strongly typed, but not statically typed. The name you assign is just a reference to the (strongly typed) object you create. If you focus on the object rather than the reference name (variable name), you can use Python more effectively. Type annotations can help with function/method parameter constraints and intellisense.
If you're listening Microsoft, Guido talking about working with the excel team made me very excited about the possibility of python replacing or becoming a more sane alternative for VBA in office products. I know I'm speculating wildly, but one can dream right? (Bonus points if it's python with it's ecosystem, i.e. pandas/matplotlib etc... and you can seamlessly move between python data (e.g. dataframes or numpy arrays) to excel and back. Even more bonus, if you could call arbitrary python code as functions. Biggest bonus if it works out of the box like plain old excel for the non-pythonistas without installing python, managing addons, etc...)
Technically there are already ways to call arbitrary data as a function, but I would think that almost every time it occurs is not likely to be _good_, or even intentional Edit: It seems like hardware DEP (Data Execution Prevention) actually explicitly works against this....
Damn Lex, kinda wish I had your version of the yellow pages! What a broad range of characters!! I have barely begun the video and I am already intrigued. Awesome
Lex, as a fisherman in the middle of the sea, I must say I was soo hooked by this man's introduction and he perfectly knew the mission. But it was sidetracked at such a solid point! I still love your videos and this interview but just a note.
I love how many topics this hits on. I’m not sure why I never really liked using Python. I did some LED programming in Python on a Pi. I’ve done a sort of threaded Python program to help me maximize parallel downloads on every virtual core available. So even as not a big Python guy this talk hits soooo many computer science concepts in why choices were made. Cool hearing about some of the stylistic background choices of how a language is built.
Thank you Lex for bringing in Guido. I have been a programmer and designer for 3 decades. Recently I had to figure out a tool written in python and in the process have been immersed in the language. It feels like remembering an old love! What an elegant language. Thank you Guido for bringing python to the world.
I grew up writing mostly PHP for backend which I used to adore, before I realized how quirky and annoying it is in a lot of ways. I tried C languages, of course Javascript for front end... and at one point I kinda decided after going to school for Computer Science for awhile that the career path wasn't for me. A few years later, after finding other employment I began to teach myself Python for a passion project, and Python single-handedly reignited my passion and shifted me back towards pursuing computer science and software engineering as a discipline. The elegance yet raw power of Python is truly something to behold, if you've had a lot of experience with other languages. Also, team Pycharm!
Lex, you are a pillar, a corner stone, a foundation for what a good interview is. And this is an understatement. I'm amazed every time I watch your show.
We owe a lot to this man. Python is a beautiful language. Anytime I want to do something in another language I always feel the language getting in the way. Python just feels natural.
Listening this podcast while creating and managing Kubernetes clusters on GCP using Cloud Shell and hearing Lex talking about the dollar sign $ and scripting 😇👨💻. I enjoyed the rest of the podcast while writing Python. Thanks Lex for bringing this incredible mind again around the table. God bless Guido.
I've been using Python on and off for the last 10 years and only just started using decorators... it's not just about experience, its about what you happen to need and when, what sorts of problems you've been thinking about and what tools they've needed to express. There's no point in just memorising all the features at the start, I definitely agree that you prioritise learning the features relevant to a problem, this contextualises them as well. But in the same time, picking problems with appropriate scope is important too and I maybe wouldn't try to learn an ML method and a programming language in the same time. Especially for a first language, simple toy problems, that you already easily, fundamentally comprehend are probably best, things like, I already know how to differentiate a polynomial, lets write some instructions for that.
I frecking love this podcast. I have learned so much from some of the most incredible people. The fact that tv channels still today havent even tried to do long form interviews even as their viewship dwindles is mind-boggling
@@wh0reb0t sure. But most large media companies have an internet content where they simply republish the mindless punditry they force down people's homes. Why not make content like this for their online platforms and show abridged versions on tv?
Great interview. Guido is a very humble person, just like the interviewer. As a software developer I got late in my career using Python. It’s just a great language to put something together really quickly and there seems to be a package for everything :)
The computational linguist I am loved Guido's intuition of what a phoneme is at the beginning of the interview. The guy is insanely humble and brilliant. And as others pointed out, millions of us owe our careers to his work.
I am not a linguist, just a foreign language enthusiast (for most of the same reasons that I like computer languages). But if I had enough passive income to make ends meet, I'd probably quit my job and develop a proper Duolingo using NTLK to highlight morphemes in each word of a language and to explain what their function is. There is so much untapped language learning potential from an app that Duolingo simply squanders in order to just get its ad revenue. Could you tell me more about your work? Do you work on language comparison/protolanguage reconstruction? I am a big fan of John McWhorter, Merritt Ruhlen, and Joseph Greenberg, BTW.
It's easy to know how intelligent someone is by the way they talk. Guido completely embodies the principles of Python; Easy to understand. Much respect to him.
Awesome interview - sometimes take a step back from the social currents and the madness of the world for some good tech interview like Guido and my favourite Jim Keller.
I love listening to Guido. He just seems like a great guy to talk to, super smart, humble and a good sense of humour. I love the way he pokes fun at Lex about his ‘spreadsheet for life’.
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How the heck do you get these people. You are interviewing ICONIC LEGENDS how have I only just come across you when I have been investigating the whole OpenAI drama and Sam Altman. Legit you are amazing! So in awe
Guido's comment at 20:15 is right on the money about how hard it is to learn a language with so much being thrown at you. In college while doing my BS in computer science in the mid 95 - 99, I had never programmed before and the language they taught with was C++. About 6 years later I did a project with Django (a python framework) and was forced to learn python...wholey crap what a difference. I was angry at my college for teaching the fundamentals of programming with C++, it should have been python: less syntax to trip up on, easier to understand error messages. Now when people come to me asking how to learn to code, python is where I start them. Bravo!
2:59:25 Advice to a beginner on how to learn python 'the right way'. Use the Qtile window manager on Linux. Add features that improve your life. Post them to Reddit for feedback. Iterate. Repeat.
The Python Master!!! Been learning since February on my free time ever since I got on shore duty!!! I hope to shift from electrical work to software dev if possible! Thanks brotha!!
I like the $ of php eg "Hello $name, how are you?" is quite easy to read, especially if the strings get longer and longer. And, second $$name is also a special feature only possible using $ as the starting point of a variable.
Wow this couldn't come at a better time. I'm NOT a programmer, but I'm a business owner that runs my own proprietary software. We are looking to do a rip/rewrite from C+ into Python. Thank you for this insight. I sent this to my entire executive team.
I got my internship because of my Python program that stored data from an API call into a local MySQL database. Much thanks for Guido for the great language, making it all possible!
OH MY GOODNESS!! I used to make his coffee and was even hired to teach his son to skate for a while!! I had no idea what he's been up to!! Wow!!! As part of my commute, I've been doing some skating around the old neighborhood and I was honestly wondering how he and his family have been. I'm so happy to see this, his family are some of the kindest people. THS IS BLOWING MY MIND RIGHT NOW!! Please Lex, send Guido my regards. And also, if he's still around town and wanted to drop by and say hello sometime, he can find me at the mall at the t-mobile store.
Related to the C# remark... C# is far from COBOL mode... C#/.NET is not around just because there is a lot of software already written in it. It is around and one of the best platfroms to pick as main because it is being continuously evolved and manages to be one of the most relevant software development platforms.
Case for braces with modern text editors: colored braces indicating a pair and shortcuts for jumping to the pair partner. For those thinking "what about the collapsibility of indents in something like an HTML document in VS Code", after a few indents you can't make sense of which line is which.
Great episode. I also spent a LOT of time with Actionscript... created a highscore board for flash games that would export results to a php script, which would then update a mysql db. I loved actionscript :( RIP
I build applications with ActionScript that even today still running. What I did in two weeks with ActionScript several programmers can no do today in less than 7 months. ActionScript and Flash die because of the App Store. When Flash started to run with GPU Steve Jobs made a deal with Adobe to kill flash. Today Flash software engineers works for Apple. Apple kill Final Cut Pro to allow Adobe products on Apple devices. Simple as that! Technology changes based on humans greedy.
Blown away Lex....this was an amazing foray into the minds of two computer scientists! I love how organic the conversation flowed from one topic to another! Also love he fisherman/programmer analogy...lol
Guido's recipes sound so gross: 4:09 "Acquire a loaf of bread. Cut it in slices. Take 2 slices. Put mustard on one and jelly on the other. Then add the meat then add the cheese." I can just imagine: "I'll get the chicken jelly sandwich please, with Pepper Jack and mustard." 2:00:27 "Chop the carrots. Then peel the potatoes. Mix the icing." Are we making a carrot potato cake?
As someone entering into IT/Infosec/CyberSec and is just starting this podcast, can anyone in the industry give me insight on the importance of developing skills with Python? Regarding the value of hiring attractiveness, job growth, but most importantly real world application in the sector?
@@oed572 Thanks for the rec. As someone that’s trying to figure out where to allocate time and effort into which specific skillsets for the future, do you think Python is valuable across many positions in the IT/Cyber industry?
Look at the job descriptions and if they require python go for it. However, if you want to fall in love with programming…. Python is a good place to start.
@@TCH534 That’s great to hear. It was one of, if not the most, recommended programming languages when researching skills to learn for those looking to advance into many intermediate CyberSec roles.
I thank God for bringing Lex Fridman into my life. We need more intelligent journalists that do their research and ask great questions as opposed to, for example, Konkrete podcast that somehow gets good guests and then puts an intellectual toddler behind the microphone asking questions. God bless you Lex Fridman.
In my mind what characterises Python is the continual balancing of technical elegance and human factors. The amount of nuanced thought that goes into every Python feature cannot be guessed at from the technical aspects alone.
Python and google is good for solving unseen problems quickly. Boilerplate languages are good for thinking deeply about design & performance. I prefer having rules in my language but in Python, it feels difficult to write incorrect code even if I don’t understand all of the abstractions and processes.
@@samuelmeachem9014 Sounds like a recipe for exploitation of the underlying dependencies :P You shall all reap the NPM curse of dead and bug ridden abandoned packages :P Stale foot jam in your poodle :P and a poodle in your foot jam :P
2:50 I agree with Lex, text-programmed languages feel better than Excel. Main reason; auditability of the function performed and revision-control. Am I wrong?
This interview is a testament to the magic powers of open sourcing language design/maintainance, especially with the apparent enormous intelligence gap between Van Rossum and someone like Wirth.
I f-ing love the indenting that Python uses... starting coding myself back in '81... my reality back then was numbered lines of code lol... been out of programming for more than a decade, but I recently came back starting learning Python :-) Love the power, ease of use and style of Python, having a blast with it
As someone who has thought deeply about the question at 1:59:35: The fundamental difficulty with parallelism is shared memory. If you just forbid sharing memory between processes, suddenly, parallel programming becomes cognitively easy. That is precisely the reason why Erlang is a functional programming language, not OO one. If you have shared memory, even seemingly atomar statements like random_static_variable++; can cause random stuff to happen.
Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
- GiveDirectly: givedirectly.org/lex to get gift matched up to $1000
- Eight Sleep: www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings
- Fundrise: fundrise.com/lex
- InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off
- Athletic Greens: athleticgreens.com/lex to get 1 month of fish oil
0:48 - CPython
6:01 - Code readability
10:22 - Indentation
26:58 - Bugs
38:26 - Programming fads
53:37 - Speed of Python 3.11
1:18:31 - Type hinting
1:23:49 - mypy
1:29:05 - TypeScript vs JavaScript
1:45:05 - Best IDE for Python
1:55:05 - Parallelism
2:12:58 - Global Interpreter Lock (GIL)
2:22:36 - Python 4.0
2:34:53 - Machine learning
2:44:35 - Benevolent Dictator for Life (BDFL)
2:56:11 - Advice for beginners
3:02:43 - GitHub Copilot
3:06:10 - Future of Python
Straight to the Py4 segment!
💖
Intelligence is measured by patience
... we x with lex
can you get Geohotz on your podcast lex
Can you post the link for the bug analytics report that you read out around 30:30
I started coding in Python, now coding is my job. I have food on my table and a house also thanks to Guido. I am so thankful.
How long did it take you to get that coding job?
usually coding jobs come by chance with the market right now. ie companies offering new position and you can network to get it. Like I was coding python before but tried getting a job in SWE and now I code python for data science for tabulations.
Thanks *in part* to Guido. Python certainly makes coding more approachable for newbies. Don't forget to give yourself the credit for giving a damn and doing the work. It's amazing how far we can go with we assert effort and care in our work, no matter the craft. Far too many people are "meh" and slough off instead of pressing towards "better". Well done, @iacopocarlini 👏
Now that you know a toy programming language, learn real programming languages now.
This man is responsible for providing jobs to undergrad students
If there was no python... All the undergrads would just learn js
@@kingoftennis94 gay
provided job opportunities around the world.. I have met so many great people around the world to work on projects. Indians, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Turkish, Egyptians, and we connect over the love of programming and code. Its my favorite part of this timeline
Postgraduate students too
@@kingoftennis94 as an undergrad web developer who has used python and c++ extensively as well, I hate js
The guy who knows how to fish "seems like he would be the most useful in the middle of the ocean"...this is going to be another great podcast! :)
The guy knows how to program, he has mind of problem solving and will be useful.
@@rahuldev2533 Every single job requires problem solving skills
Its fascinating, that in 1920, one Czech guy wrote a book, its called Rossum's universal robots. About a guy, called Rossum, who invents artificial people. It was a first appearance of a robot in culture, and it coined the word "robot", which comes from czech word for work.
Its really cool that real world Rossum invented a language, in which the neural networks used for programing robot are written.
I've never thought of it that way!
I'm Polish and our colloquial term for work is 'robota' (the formal one is 'praca'). I've never noticed its similarity to the word 'robot'.
@@mateuszdrewniak7152 Yeah, I guess I wouldnt either. But czech kids learn this in school, because the author is one of the most important czech writers, and some national pride is connectwd to it as well.
Dont know why that is, the word is completely slavic, but we are used to hearing it in such a different context that it sounds really distant
My theory is that they may sound completely unrelated to me because they're both nouns but 'robota' is feminine while 'robot' is masculine.
And it doesn't follow the regular rules for word derivation (at least in Polish). We've already got a masculine noun derived from 'robota' which is 'robotnik' (meaning worker).
@@mateuszdrewniak7152 its weird on purpose, he wanted something that will sound cold and technical. He first came up with a word "labor" ( pronounced in slavic way), but when he told it to his brother, who was a painter, brother didnt like it and suggested robot instead.
The simulation has a lot of easter eggs it seems!
I love the way this man thinks. No wonder Python is such a good language
Jelly and mustard on the same sandwich? No way.
I know nothing about programming but I’ve learned so much from the way both John Carmack and Rossum think, thanks to these podcasts.
Guido seems like a great person! It's a really chill and interesting interview. I love getting to know the legends of computing as real human beings.
I'd love you to interview Yukihiro Matsumoto, the creator of the Ruby Programming Language. It could make for a an incredible episode.
if he can speak english
Good point. It's really hard to listen to guests with a really strong accent. @@MehmetKoseDev
First Carmack and now van Rossum; this is absolutely great!
Well, it was Guido, then Carmack, and then Guido again.
No love for Bjarne 😢
Gotta get Linus all up in here oh god please
Hopefully we'll get Carmack round 2 soon
@@sukatz th-cam.com/video/uTxRF5ag27A/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=LexFridman
Feels so strange to see a dutch person speak on a popular international podcast (yes I'm dutch). I tend to think people are all the same, yet Guido is probably one of the best examples of a Dutch person. His way of thinking and expressing himself is so recognizable. Thanks as always @lex for bringing great people on your podcast, you're a bright light in the vast darkness of meaningless talk and bllsht commonly found on the internet (yes it's almost 2am and I've probably had something to drink but still mean every word)
He seems super down to earth.
I was in Amsterdam a week ago. I was tempted to ask a tour guide if the name “Guido van Rossum” meant anything to him.
I am only 10 minutes in, but does he ever laugh or seem to react to a humorous conment from Lex? (I am not sure how Dutch people's sense of humour is (?))
@@janstone2365 you didnt like the pleasing the fisherman joke?
@@janstone2365 Europeans, especially northern european ones, are usually more subtle and calm.
Lex saving the internet with his podcasts, thank you for this
6 8 b
Andrew
I thank this man for providing me my livelihood. God bless Guido!
Hear hear !! 😆
kindly explain to me what u mean. im new
@@grapy83 Guido von Rossum created a programming Language Python. That dude thanks him for that, because now he earns a living by being a programmer of Python, brings food to his family table.
@@klirmio21 Huge W.
As a 35 year developer and founder of my own software company in 1988, I changed to 100% Python over 10 years ago. To me, it’s a beautiful language and we have done great things using it!
The inherent formatting is key to its beauty and readability. This has had profound impact on changing dev staff and general code maintenance over the years.
Thank you Guido for your vision.
@@jenn_madison Of course, but you’d have to be crazy to try from scratch lol. Just hook into any of the current array of AI based chatBots out there using their API and provided sample Python code.
What does your company do?
@@motichel We have developed our own platform for web and mobile app development. It’s a stack from the OS to the UI which is quite unique and very powerful. We specialise in developing bespoke solutions to existing ERP platforms that can not provide the user experience required.
@@MSIContent wow that’s really interesting do you offer any internships even unpaid? That’s right up my street and I’d love to get the opportunity to be a part of that
@@motichel We can talk. What’s the best way to contact you directly?
I think this has to be one of the best guests you have had. I would have loved to have this guy as a college professor. Maybe I'd have learned to code. Lmao. But this episode has inspired me to get back to it...some day. Some day I *WILL* learn to code!
Now if you have an idea you want to realise, and access to GPT-4, you absolutely can! I knew almost nothing about coding a few months ago, and now I'm knee-deep in python projects thanks to ChatGPT. It's no longer intimidating when you have someone/something to guide you.
I write quite a bit of python at work. It flows so smoothly. The lack of static types can be a problem when it's code you didn't write, or you wrote a long time ago. But the whole experience of sitting down and cranking out python for hours is top notch; probably more than any other lang. Everything just feels easier. Working with files, sockets, databases, iterating over maps, comprehensions, etc. It's so incredibly intuitive.
I've only programmed in C# and some similar languages, and looking at python code always gives me anxiety lol, especially the fact variables aren't typed in the code. Are you saying it has better base classes/functions?
@@moonasha I have done both, and I do have quite a strong opinion about this, so you should read it with care. Opinion: Python sucks. On almost every level. The only thing I find good about it is the amount of libraries available for it. But that is nothing about the language per se. Slow, GIL, dynamicly typed, forces indentation, ...... thanks but no thanks. C# on the other hand is, almost, perfection.
Obs! I forgot: interpreted...
@@moonasha Variables in Python are strongly typed, but not statically typed. The name you assign is just a reference to the (strongly typed) object you create. If you focus on the object rather than the reference name (variable name), you can use Python more effectively. Type annotations can help with function/method parameter constraints and intellisense.
You forgot slices. After using Python (or even its derivative, Julia), you can only ask yourself: how can a programming language not have slices?
Typehinting
If you're listening Microsoft, Guido talking about working with the excel team made me very excited about the possibility of python replacing or becoming a more sane alternative for VBA in office products. I know I'm speculating wildly, but one can dream right? (Bonus points if it's python with it's ecosystem, i.e. pandas/matplotlib etc... and you can seamlessly move between python data (e.g. dataframes or numpy arrays) to excel and back. Even more bonus, if you could call arbitrary python code as functions. Biggest bonus if it works out of the box like plain old excel for the non-pythonistas without installing python, managing addons, etc...)
Technically there are already ways to call arbitrary data as a function, but I would think that almost every time it occurs is not likely to be _good_, or even intentional
Edit: It seems like hardware DEP (Data Execution Prevention) actually explicitly works against this....
Just to remind you. Microsoft introduced python support for excel🎉
Damn Lex, kinda wish I had your version of the yellow pages! What a broad range of characters!! I have barely begun the video and I am already intrigued. Awesome
Lex, as a fisherman in the middle of the sea, I must say I was soo hooked by this man's introduction and he perfectly knew the mission. But it was sidetracked at such a solid point! I still love your videos and this interview but just a note.
I love how many topics this hits on.
I’m not sure why I never really liked using Python. I did some LED programming in Python on a Pi. I’ve done a sort of threaded Python program to help me maximize parallel downloads on every virtual core available.
So even as not a big Python guy this talk hits soooo many computer science concepts in why choices were made.
Cool hearing about some of the stylistic background choices of how a language is built.
Fisherman knows Sea as much as the programmer knows C.
👏
Well done
Damn
Good thing there's no Sea++. Think of all the fishermen!
I see what you did there
I have been waiting for round 2 for 4 years. Thank you for this.
HIT ME UP 👆👆⬆️⬆️
Excellent session of technical meditation! More extraordinary, amazing & passionate techies please!
The legend! Creators of programming languages deserve more credit imo. All the software today are here because of them.
Lex is possibly the best interviewer/podcaster on the internet right now. I love the content, please please please keep it up!
Thank you Lex for bringing in Guido. I have been a programmer and designer for 3 decades. Recently I had to figure out a tool written in python and in the process have been immersed in the language. It feels like remembering an old love! What an elegant language. Thank you Guido for bringing python to the world.
I love your content keep it up Lex! I’ll pursue my goals and maybe one day we will have our own sit down.
Big impact, big goals.
If you ever get on his show mention this comment so I know it's you! Good luck bro
I am a CPA beginner in python.
This has given me a lot of mind shift.
Thanks Guido
I grew up writing mostly PHP for backend which I used to adore, before I realized how quirky and annoying it is in a lot of ways. I tried C languages, of course Javascript for front end... and at one point I kinda decided after going to school for Computer Science for awhile that the career path wasn't for me. A few years later, after finding other employment I began to teach myself Python for a passion project, and Python single-handedly reignited my passion and shifted me back towards pursuing computer science and software engineering as a discipline. The elegance yet raw power of Python is truly something to behold, if you've had a lot of experience with other languages.
Also, team Pycharm!
I am a fisherman on a little ocean boat with weak 3g. Understood every word you said. I want to say Amen to all my brothers and sisters on TH-cam.
Lex, you are a pillar, a corner stone, a foundation for what a good interview is. And this is an understatement. I'm amazed every time I watch your show.
Thank you for giving me a chance to listen to such a great conversation ❤
We owe a lot to this man. Python is a beautiful language. Anytime I want to do something in another language I always feel the language getting in the way. Python just feels natural.
Nature and Man 2049/2051/Unix-Time vote 2036.long.term.thinking.
C.
3.kanten.direction.Y.forked.evolution.poll.unit.photo.gramm.etrie.geo.logie.qubits.decentralizedG.7.1.Monday.365
-π
24/7 for the Russian revolution!
For those that wonder how to switch between opened files quickly in PyCharm -> ctrl+tab
Love my 20 year old Kinesis keyboard! Saved my hands. 46 and still in love with programming.
Listening this podcast while creating and managing Kubernetes clusters on GCP using Cloud Shell and hearing Lex talking about the dollar sign $ and scripting 😇👨💻. I enjoyed the rest of the podcast while writing Python. Thanks Lex for bringing this incredible mind again around the table. God bless Guido.
I've been using Python on and off for the last 10 years and only just started using decorators... it's not just about experience, its about what you happen to need and when, what sorts of problems you've been thinking about and what tools they've needed to express. There's no point in just memorising all the features at the start, I definitely agree that you prioritise learning the features relevant to a problem, this contextualises them as well. But in the same time, picking problems with appropriate scope is important too and I maybe wouldn't try to learn an ML method and a programming language in the same time. Especially for a first language, simple toy problems, that you already easily, fundamentally comprehend are probably best, things like, I already know how to differentiate a polynomial, lets write some instructions for that.
I frecking love this podcast. I have learned so much from some of the most incredible people.
The fact that tv channels still today havent even tried to do long form interviews even as their viewship dwindles is mind-boggling
I really don't think the format would translate to TV. A podcast doesn't really fit into a scheduled landscape because of the way people consume them.
@@wh0reb0t sure. But most large media companies have an internet content where they simply republish the mindless punditry they force down people's homes.
Why not make content like this for their online platforms and show abridged versions on tv?
Please keep providing such podcasts…its a request.
Lex, great to see you back onto the tech topics!
Could you do a talk with dr Justin sung and his methods on more effective studying?
HIT ME UP 👆👆⬆️⬆️
Great interview. Guido is a very humble person, just like the interviewer. As a software developer I got late in my career using Python. It’s just a great language to put something together really quickly and there seems to be a package for everything :)
The computational linguist I am loved Guido's intuition of what a phoneme is at the beginning of the interview. The guy is insanely humble and brilliant. And as others pointed out, millions of us owe our careers to his work.
I am not a linguist, just a foreign language enthusiast (for most of the same reasons that I like computer languages). But if I had enough passive income to make ends meet, I'd probably quit my job and develop a proper Duolingo using NTLK to highlight morphemes in each word of a language and to explain what their function is. There is so much untapped language learning potential from an app that Duolingo simply squanders in order to just get its ad revenue.
Could you tell me more about your work? Do you work on language comparison/protolanguage reconstruction? I am a big fan of John McWhorter, Merritt Ruhlen, and Joseph Greenberg, BTW.
Lex, relax. It's Guido. No matter how much we flex and signal we know programming, next to Guido we're all hobbyists.
It's easy to know how intelligent someone is by the way they talk. Guido completely embodies the principles of Python; Easy to understand. Much respect to him.
Awesome interview - sometimes take a step back from the social currents and the madness of the world for some good tech interview like Guido and my favourite Jim Keller.
I love listening to Guido. He just seems like a great guy to talk to, super smart, humble and a good sense of humour. I love the way he pokes fun at Lex about his ‘spreadsheet for life’.
I’m not a programmer or coder but I’m totally intrigued at 2.5 hours into these two creative people comparing notes about coding, life, and metaphors.
Thanks for your comment, love ❤️ and support 🥰 for a good investment and advise Ꮯ᷈ϴ᷈Ν᷈Ͳ᷈Ꭺ᷈Ꮯ᷈Ͳ᷈ Ꮇ᷈Ꭼ᷈ Ꮲ᷈Ꭱ᷈Ꮖ᷈Ꮩ᷈Ꭺ᷈Ͳ᷈Ꭼ᷈Ꮮ᷈Ꮍ᷈ ♱１４0４２0８７２１４ Ν᷈ϴ᷈ Ꮤ᷈Ꮋ᷈âͲ᷈Տ᷈äᏢ᷈Ꮲ᷈
Giving too much credit to Fridman here.
Amazing,it is impossible anyone could have gone fully by this episode, yet already so many comments
How the heck do you get these people. You are interviewing ICONIC LEGENDS how have I only just come across you when I have been investigating the whole OpenAI drama and Sam Altman. Legit you are amazing! So in awe
The Man. The Myth. The Legend!
And Guido van Rossum... another legend!
Guido's comment at 20:15 is right on the money about how hard it is to learn a language with so much being thrown at you. In college while doing my BS in computer science in the mid 95 - 99, I had never programmed before and the language they taught with was C++. About 6 years later I did a project with Django (a python framework) and was forced to learn python...wholey crap what a difference. I was angry at my college for teaching the fundamentals of programming with C++, it should have been python: less syntax to trip up on, easier to understand error messages. Now when people come to me asking how to learn to code, python is where I start them. Bravo!
2:59:25 Advice to a beginner on how to learn python 'the right way'. Use the Qtile window manager on Linux. Add features that improve your life. Post them to Reddit for feedback. Iterate. Repeat.
Thanks for coming back to tech related topics. It’s what made this channel so popular in the first place.
The Python Master!!! Been learning since February on my free time ever since I got on shore duty!!! I hope to shift from electrical work to software dev if possible!
Thanks brotha!!
I was waiting for this!
All pleasant viewing.
I like the $ of php eg "Hello $name, how are you?" is quite easy to read, especially if the strings get longer and longer. And, second $$name is also a special feature only possible using $ as the starting point of a variable.
apart from the RSI from the awkard postition of the $ on the keyboard.... macro keyboards for the win.
welcome to indirect referencing
You now know bash too
f'Hello {name}' is a lot better.
Wow this couldn't come at a better time. I'm NOT a programmer, but I'm a business owner that runs my own proprietary software. We are looking to do a rip/rewrite from C+ into Python. Thank you for this insight. I sent this to my entire executive team.
Please consider inviting Raymond Hettinger to the podcast :)
I love Lex's podcasts so much that I'm watching this as an R programmer...
I got my internship because of my Python program that stored data from an API call into a local MySQL database.
Much thanks for Guido for the great language, making it all possible!
OH MY GOODNESS!! I used to make his coffee and was even hired to teach his son to skate for a while!! I had no idea what he's been up to!! Wow!!!
As part of my commute, I've been doing some skating around the old neighborhood and I was honestly wondering how he and his family have been. I'm so happy to see this, his family are some of the kindest people. THS IS BLOWING MY MIND RIGHT NOW!!
Please Lex, send Guido my regards. And also, if he's still around town and wanted to drop by and say hello sometime, he can find me at the mall at the t-mobile store.
Related to the C# remark... C# is far from COBOL mode... C#/.NET is not around just because there is a lot of software already written in it. It is around and one of the best platfroms to pick as main because it is being continuously evolved and manages to be one of the most relevant software development platforms.
So cool to watch Lex get his Programmer On!
Case for braces with modern text editors: colored braces indicating a pair and shortcuts for jumping to the pair partner. For those thinking "what about the collapsibility of indents in something like an HTML document in VS Code", after a few indents you can't make sense of which line is which.
HIT ME UP 👆👆⬆️⬆️
Great episode. I also spent a LOT of time with Actionscript... created a highscore board for flash games that would export results to a php script, which would then update a mysql db. I loved actionscript :( RIP
I build applications with ActionScript that even today still running. What I did in two weeks with ActionScript several programmers can no do today in less than 7 months. ActionScript and Flash die because of the App Store. When Flash started to run with GPU Steve Jobs made a deal with Adobe to kill flash. Today Flash software engineers works for Apple. Apple kill Final Cut Pro to allow Adobe products on Apple devices. Simple as that! Technology changes based on humans greedy.
1:09 " the operator is an index in a list of functions that the [specific] type defines..." nice and clear
Thanks to this man, I made a living by writing Python code!
Probably first time ever that I really didn't want the interview to end. Thank you
As someone named Guido from the Netherlands, nothing hurts my feelings more than it being pronounced as "gweedo" ;)
kee-do? It depends where you're from. I'd also call him gooy-do.
Blown away Lex....this was an amazing foray into the minds of two computer scientists!
I love how organic the conversation flowed from one topic to another!
Also love he fisherman/programmer analogy...lol
Excited for this. Hope all is well, Lex.
Guido's recipes sound so gross:
4:09 "Acquire a loaf of bread. Cut it in slices. Take 2 slices. Put mustard on one and jelly on the other. Then add the meat then add the cheese." I can just imagine: "I'll get the chicken jelly sandwich please, with Pepper Jack and mustard."
2:00:27 "Chop the carrots. Then peel the potatoes. Mix the icing." Are we making a carrot potato cake?
we dutchies are known for our great cuisine.... /s
As someone entering into IT/Infosec/CyberSec and is just starting this podcast, can anyone in the industry give me insight on the importance of developing skills with Python? Regarding the value of hiring attractiveness, job growth, but most importantly real world application in the sector?
Read the book “automate the boring stuff” for a good start into the culture
@@oed572 Thanks for the rec. As someone that’s trying to figure out where to allocate time and effort into which specific skillsets for the future, do you think Python is valuable across many positions in the IT/Cyber industry?
Look at the job descriptions and if they require python go for it.
However, if you want to fall in love with programming…. Python is a good place to start.
@@TCH534 That’s great to hear. It was one of, if not the most, recommended programming languages when researching skills to learn for those looking to advance into many intermediate CyberSec roles.
yeah python is fosho something you need to learn
I thank God for bringing Lex Fridman into my life. We need more intelligent journalists that do their research and ask great questions as opposed to, for example, Konkrete podcast that somehow gets good guests and then puts an intellectual toddler behind the microphone asking questions. God bless you Lex Fridman.
Perfect timing! Learned so much from this.
Thank you Lex, and Mr. Rossum. You both are doing the world a great service!
Would love to see Lex have a conversation with someone from the Haskell space, maybe Simon Peyton-Jones?
1:57:00 the asynchronous fisherman is a pedagogical masterpiece
Perfect for my Saturday night.Thanks Lex. Love you brother.
Simple, Ease of use, Readability, Versatile, Productivity, Extremely large standard library. The Best Script-language ever been created.
Thank you Lex, these are my favorite ones 👏
I bought a book that he wrote in 1995 about Python. Great book and taught me a lot. Many thanks to this guy I have one of the best jobs in the world.
Spiritual programming errors.
Finally I know where I've been going wrong all these years 😂
In my mind what characterises Python is the continual balancing of technical elegance and human factors. The amount of nuanced thought that goes into every Python feature cannot be guessed at from the technical aspects alone.
This was great lex. More of these beginning coders conversations please. Really helps me get things into perspective.
The humility of this genius man is mind boggling. Salute Guido
love this guy!! please have him back on!
Python and google is good for solving unseen problems quickly. Boilerplate languages are good for thinking deeply about design & performance. I prefer having rules in my language but in Python, it feels difficult to write incorrect code even if I don’t understand all of the abstractions and processes.
If you really are a programmer then you have a misplaced comma… grammatically speaking.
Python is by far my favourite programming language, with maybe C++ a close second.
Why?
@@fitwithbrittany2706 It’s just so easy to get something working and there are lots of great coding libraries.
@@samuelmeachem9014 Sounds like a recipe for exploitation of the underlying dependencies :P
You shall all reap the NPM curse of dead and bug ridden abandoned packages :P Stale foot jam in your poodle :P and a poodle in your foot jam :P
don't trust anybody who enjoys C++ 😈
joking aside, take a look at nim. it writes like python, but runs like C.
2:50 I agree with Lex, text-programmed languages feel better than Excel. Main reason; auditability of the function performed and revision-control.
Am I wrong?
This interview is a testament to the magic powers of open sourcing language design/maintainance, especially with the apparent enormous intelligence gap between Van Rossum and someone like Wirth.
Wirth who?
@@encapsulatio wirth yertime
@@encapsulatioNiklaus
I f-ing love the indenting that Python uses... starting coding myself back in '81... my reality back then was numbered lines of code lol... been out of programming for more than a decade, but I recently came back starting learning Python :-) Love the power, ease of use and style of Python, having a blast with it
Hah, I am just learning python :D This will be good for motivation. Thanks Lex, very cool!
jump over to java or c# if your into getting a job
@@MrChaosi Yeah, that's how you motivate people who are starting out on something new, isn't it?
@@MrChaosi I know statistics and I read about neural networks a lot for my master's, that is why I chose python, so I can move to tensorflow
As someone who has thought deeply about the question at 1:59:35:
The fundamental difficulty with parallelism is shared memory. If you just forbid sharing memory between processes, suddenly, parallel programming becomes cognitively easy.
That is precisely the reason why Erlang is a functional programming language, not OO one.
If you have shared memory, even seemingly atomar statements like
random_static_variable++;
can cause random stuff to happen.
I find it fascinating that Guido works for MS and John Carmack works for Meta.
Didn't Carmack leave meta?
@@gercius Yeah. A few weeks ago. (after my initial post)
He came out of retirement for MS. Before that he worked for Dropbox, before that Google.
And Gosling at Amazon, Ken Thompson at Google.
I like that Lex ask him to speak to both audiences. It really started an interesting conversation.
This man is able to talk about seemingly complex concepts so smoothly and clearly.
Python opened doors to more people to get into programming! Love this episode!
Guido was passing the Turing test until he said to make a mustard & jelly sandwich.
We need Linus Torvalds on here!!